← The Herd with Colin Cowherd
The Herd with Colin Cowherd
Colin Cowherd Podcast - Aaron Rodgers Future, What’s Missing From Knicks? Can UConn Threepeat?
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- [00:00]
Colin Cowherd
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- [01:07]
Jeremy Hobson
A divided country and our media couldn't be more polarizing. That's why we started the Middle with Jeremy Hobson. It's about bringing voices not from the extremes, but from the vast middle into the national conversation. Each week we hear from ordinary Americans from all over the country. And when you subscribe to the Middle, you also get an episode each week called One Thing Trump did that focuses on just one item from the avalanche of news. Listen to the Middle with Jeremy Hobson on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [01:37]
Young Pueblo
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Colin Cowherd
You should not be postponing your happiness. Your greatest happiness is not necessarily going to like come from a relationship. Your partner should add to your happiness.
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Young Pueblo
But your happiness is really coming from within. You blabs on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [02:14]
Colin Cowherd
The volume NCAA Tournament is officially here. Baseball's around the corner. No better place to get tickets to the games than Game Time. It has a new feature called Game Time Picks. I love this. It makes getting tickets for events way easier. Game Time Picks filters out the fluff to show you only the incredible deals on great seats. That's it. So you don't have to waste time searching through thousands of tickets to find the best value. Game Time lets you preview the seats before you even purchase them. So take the guesswork out of buying tickets with GameTime. Download the GameTime app takes a minute. Create an account Use the code Colin that's me for 20 bucks off your first purchase Terms apply again create an account. The redeem code is Colin C O L I N 20 bucks off download Gametime today. Last minute tickets. Lowest price is guaranteed. One of my favorite people in the media. He has New York Times best selling books on Aaron Rodgers, coach K, Derek J and Bill Belichick. Pretty impressive resume. He's got a new one coming out with Dan Hurley, which is fascinating because Hurley and UConn have had a spirited and disappointing season. And the book is coming out in September called Never Life Leadership and what It Takes to Be Great, co written with Dan Hurley. I want to get to that in a second. I want to start with Rick Pitino and St. John's so for the uninitiated, St. John's is in Queens, one of the five boroughs. Used to be in Brooklyn actually a long time ago. Catholic University between the airports is how I remember being it described to me one time. And it was in the Big east, which is the greatest basketball conference, the most personality filled basketball conference at its best in the history between players and coaches. And so Louis Carnesecca ages leaves. It's not the same university many people tried. Then one of the great coaches of all time, Rick Bettino, a New Yorker, gets the job. So let's start with that. I couldn't tell you the last time Duke and St. John's both had a chance to win the title in the same tournament. So it's a fascinating tournament. But when Rick took the job, I mean I said this the other day, you know, his, his moral compass has sometimes flipped around but in terms of basketball iq, EQ and program building is he is parcels plus Urban Meyer. You know, he is just one of these guys that can do a Jim Harbaugh. What is the secret sauce? You know Rick, what is his secret sauce? What, what's different between Rick and so many other coaches that go to these programs? Iona St. John's and just make it work quickly.
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Ian O'Connor
Great question. And I, I think first of all, I think the two best coaches in the history of the sport are John Wooden and Mike Krzyevsky. So if you look at their bodies of work, I think they're the top two. But I also believe Rick Pitino is just as good as they were. I think that he's as good as any college basketball coach ever. And it's just the ferocity with which he gets his kids to play defense. And it really works at St. John's and of course, it worked at Louisville, it worked at Kentucky and a Providence. But he's such a New Yorker, and that is such a New York style of play on the playgrounds that it really translates. And this has been a very likable team. The city has fallen in love with St. John's now, when I started my career, St. John's would take the back page of the tabloids away from the Knicks. And so it's been a long time since that was possible. Now, of course, the tabloids aren't what they used to be in New York or newspapers anywhere, of course, but St. John's is now a team that the city has embraced. And Patino, that style of play, he did it even with the mix. Pressing defense, attention to detail, just playing with that ferocity. And, yeah, I don't know if I've ever seen a coach get his kids consistently to play any harder than Rick Pitino's teams everywhere he's been, including in the NBA outside of the Celtics. But he's an amazing. When it comes to X's and O's and motivation and recruiting, he's an amazing coach. There's no question about it.
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Colin Cowherd
So it is very unique. I have them making the Final Four. They don't shoot threes particularly well, but either does half, 90% of the field. I mean, UC San Diego's rare, BYU is rare. St. John's can't shoot threes. Houston's not great at it. Michigan State can't. I mean, I watched Michigan. Michigan State play a couple of weeks ago, and Michigan State ends up scoring in the 80s. I don't know how, but they get there. So I don't really use that as a deficit. I think St. John's can muscle and defend and coach its way to the final. But going back to my initial point, you know Duke basketball because of the book on Coach K, which I strongly recommend. If you've never read it, it is. I. I think it's. In my opinion, I think it's your best book, and I've read all of them. I loved it. Duke is the most talented team Coach K leaves, and usually it almost always works this way. You give it to a popular assistant coach, and he just doesn't have the gravitas or the weight to hold this massive brand afloat. But Duke this year feels like, to me, the odds on favorite, like if they won, it's the only team. You wouldn't even ask how you'd go. Okay, Cooper flag. Are you surprised by Coach K leaves and yet Duke remains vibrant?
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Ian O'Connor
No, I'm not surprised, Colin. I think Duke does recruit itself to some degree, but John Shire's recruiting has been unbelievable since Coach K left. And you start with that. Of course. That's the lifeblood of college basketball in all college sports. And he's been terrific at that. And he's just a really good coach, too, in terms of X's and O's. But if you look at that team right now, it's. It's almost a perfect college basketball team. They've got the big man who's 72 with an incredible wingspan. He's a top 10, top 15 NBA pick. You've got a forward who's a top 15 on one side. On the other side, you've got one of the best freshmen we've ever seen in college basketball. Who's the number one pick? Assuming he's healthy and it looks like he's going to play. And in the backcourt, you've got two guys who are 65 at guard. Now, maybe the one question mark you have against a team that has smaller, quicker guards, maybe that's a little bit of an issue. But size, skill, the coaching, the pedigree, everything is in place for Duke to win the national championship. I actually don't think they will, but I certainly wouldn't be surprised if they do because they probably do have the best team. I actually think Houston is going to win the national title, and it's a bit of a strange reason. I just think Kelvin Sampson has been such a good coach for so long, it seems to me that he's going to get one before he retires. And you look really. I know that's kind of a funny reason, but if you look at the way they defend, they have guards, and I just think at some point he's going to pick one off. John Shire is very worthy coach of winning a national title. If you recall from my book, Coach K wanted him to be the coach. The university actually wanted Tommy Amaker to be the next head coach, but Coach K sort of got his way on that one. And frankly, you cannot argue with the results. Jon Shire has been tremendous.
- [09:40]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah. For the uninitiated, again, for the people that don't follow Duke closely or college basketball, what was. Boy, that must have been tough. Remember reading about it in your book. You have Amaker and Shire and here comes Coach K. Eventually, he's going to make a choice. What is Shire's strength? What's his foundational piece that made him the choice, and why you think Coach K eventually leaned to him because he.
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Ian O'Connor
Was in his system. It had been a long time since Amaker had been an assistant at Duke. Of course, he was a very important player in the development of that championship program under Coach K and has done a good job in the Ivy League. But Shire was there. Shire was a great player. He was going to play in the NBA. Serious eye injury early in what would have been, I think, a pretty good NBA career. But his. The way he relates to kids. I've had just a couple of conversations with him, but been around enough people who are in his world consistently, and he's just a very relatable guy. And so I think the fact that he was a really, really good player there and the fact that he is. He's got the right personality to connect with people. He obviously has the X and O background from Coach K. And you put it all together, and again, it is a campus that does recruit itself to some degree and a program that does recruit itself to some degree. It's a pretty powerful combination.
- [11:09]
Colin Cowherd
So I said this the other day on the show. You know, obviously I was in the Northeast for ten and a half years, but one of the things I observed when I was in the city a lot or near it in Connecticut, is that, you know, there's a lot of Yankee and Met fans and a lot of Giant and Jet fans, but everybody in New York likes the Knicks. It's just every single friend I had in New York, and many of them, more than the Yankees or Giants, were Knick fans first. And again, I'm old enough to remember the Walt Frazier, Bill Bradley, Earl Monroe. Yeah, like, I go back to the 70s when nobody won. You know, the Lakers won a title. The warriors did, the Washington Bullets did the Sonics, the Blazers, the Knicks, and then there were the Pat Riley iterations. But I always said, God, if Dolan could get out of the way. This city loves its team so much. And I think when the sphere got built for two years, Dolan removed himself from the facility. I mean, literally, physically, he was in Vegas so often, and it allowed the Knicks to really grow this really strong basketball group. And I think they've made very patient, very sharp moves. I don't think Kat is the future, but I think he was the right move at the right time. But there was a moment between Tibbs and Josh Hart the other day and Mikhail Bridges. It was public that he had gone to Tibbs. Hey, we need to play the starters less. You know, young players don't get a lot of work and minutes under Tibs. As great as the the brief journey has been with Tom, it does feel like, does it not, Ian? To get to the next level, you need two moves. Carl Anthony Towns probably gets replaced with a better defensive big or just like a kd, a greater player. And Tibbs may not be the answer. Or is that me 3,000 miles away? Guessing no.
- [13:10]
Ian O'Connor
I think it's possible that's the case. I do think Tibbs is good enough to win a championship as a head coach. They lose in the second round again this year, I don't think he'll get replaced because I think he'll lose to a better team. I think the Celtics are better and surprisingly enough, I did not think the Cavs would be better, but they are. They just are. So if they lose in the second round to, say, the Celtics defire the guy off that you're losing to a better team. The Celtics have better players. The Knicks have improved their roster, certainly. And I didn't think Jalen Brunson, I wasn't sure if he'd be this or could be the second best player on a championship team when they acquired him. Now I do think he could be one of the top two, if not the best player on a championship team. He's an incredible player and I think a lot of people in New York were surprised by that. I think where the Knicks are right now is it's kind of funny because jets fans have been complaining and complaining about Woody Johnson, the owner for a long time. Woody Johnson hires and we'll find out if he did the right general manager in Bougie and the right head coach in Aaron Glenn. He's going to go away. And jets fans will never talk about him. They are. Knicks fans are not talking about Jim Dull. And they haven't now for a number of years because he hired the right general manager and that was a gamble. Leon Rose had never done this job. He was a very good agent. He had never been a general manager and early on I wasn't so sure. But turns out he knows what he's doing. And Tibbs, of course, everybody knew he knew what he was doing. He's proven that he could be a very valuable piece of a coaching staff that won a championship in Boston under Doc Rivers, and so is he. It's almost like I Buck Showalter did all the dirty work in the on the Yankees in the mid-90s and then he got replaced by Joe Tory and Joe Tory then won a four World Series. So I'm not saying that the next next coach is going to win four titles in the next five years after that happens, but I think that he's going to get one more year after another second round exit. Maybe the Knicks will surprise us and win that second round matchup with say, the Celtics. I don't think that will happen, but I do think you're right in terms of the roster, it looks like they're still, believe it or not, after all the moves they've made and what, five number one picks for Bridges and then they made the Cat deal and the Brunson deal was an incredible one. It still looks like they need to make one more move and maybe Cat is a part of that package. But yeah, right now it's just they're in a tough way because of the Celtics being in their way and now the Cavs have hurdled them and they sure look like they're for real.
- [15:44]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah, I think the Hartenstein move, which I think they were kind of trapped, there's not much they could do. I thought he added some real toughness and rebounding. That's very hard to replace. Cat is a more gifted offensive player, but he's not the toughest guy in the league and he's a poor defender. Hartenstein had this sort of New York toughness, just a fighter on the glass and it felt like he was just part. He almost felt like, you know, he had that Villanova feel. He was just an overachiever and a fighter. And I think sometimes in the NBA it's not what you want to do, it's what you have to do. And they let him to okc and you know, it doesn't quite feel like the same team who's scoring big in the NBA this season. You are. All the new ways to get in on the action at DraftKings sportsbook, an official sports betting partner of the NBA Slams. Dishing the ball, cleaning the glass. Get behind your favorite players. Prop bets you can make on DraftKings. It's fun. The home of NBA player props. If you're ready to place your first bet, make it really simple. Pick how many points your favorite player is going to score. Go to DraftKings Sportsbook. They have an app. Download it. Make your pick. If you're a first timer, here's something special. New DraftKings customers. All you have to do is bet five bucks. Get 150 in bonus bets instantly. So take it to the rack with DraftKings sportsbook. Every point counts. Download their app takes 90 seconds. Use the code Colin C O L I N to get 150 bones in bonus bets. Betting just five only on DraftKings. The crown is yours. Gambling problem. Call 1-800- gambler in New York. Call 877-8-HOPENY or text hopeny467-369 in Connectic. Help is available for problem gambling. Call 888-78-9-7777 or visit ccpg.org Please play responsibly on behalf of Boot Hill Casino and resort in Kansas, 21 and over. Age and eligibility varies by jurisdiction. Void in Ontario, new customers only. Bonus bets expire 168 hours after issuance.
- [17:33]
Ian O'Connor
For additional terms and responsible gaming resources.
- [17:35]
Colin Cowherd
See dkng co Audio welcome to a.
- [17:39]
Young Pueblo
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Colin Cowherd
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- [18:11]
Ian O'Connor
I am a lifelong Republican with all.
- [18:14]
Jeremy Hobson
Kinds of different people.
- [18:15]
Ian O'Connor
You know, I'm a mother. I'm a grandmother.
- [18:18]
Jeremy Hobson
That's why we started the Middle with Jeremy Hobson. It's about bringing voices not from the extremes, but from the vast middle into the national conversation.
- [18:26]
Ian O'Connor
Anna, I'm calling from Las Vegas.
- [18:29]
Jeremy Hobson
Each week we bring together an all star panel. Mark Cuban, so great to have you on the Middle.
- [18:33]
Ian O'Connor
Thanks for having me, Jeremy.
- [18:34]
Jeremy Hobson
Neil Degrasse Tyson, welcome to the Middle.
- [18:36]
Young Pueblo
Thanks for having me.
- [18:37]
Jeremy Hobson
And hear from ordinary Americans from all over the country on the most important issues.
- [18:42]
Ian O'Connor
Hi, my name is Venkat.
- [18:44]
Colin Cowherd
I'm calling you from Atlanta, Georgia.
- [18:46]
Jeremy Hobson
And when you subscribe to the Middle, you also get an episode each week called One Thing Trump did that focuses on just one item from the avalanche of news.
- [18:54]
Ian O'Connor
We should be examining what our government spends its money on and are these jobs necessary? And what are we doing here? But that doesn't seem to be what we're doing in this situation.
- [19:02]
Jeremy Hobson
Listen to the Middle with Jeremy Hobson on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [19:13]
Colin Cowherd
The Aaron Rodgers thing has been interesting because you wrote the book on Him So you know him pretty well and I didn't think his, I don't think his football. He's fine. He's, you know, somewhere between the 13th and 16th best quarterback. He's fine. I don't think he's quite as committ as the young great ones and I don't think he moves like the young great ones. He's smart. But when Aaron Glenn came in and for the second time in Aaron's career he was caught off guard a little by a team saying hey, thanks but no thanks. According to reports that you know, Aaron had flown cross country meeting with him and Aaron Glenn was like we're going to move on. And I to me downgraded at quarterback. I mean when you write a book on Aaron you think you have a feel or a vibe for him. I said this the other day, if the Vikings say no thanks, I think he retires. When you look at how the season went and now we're in this flux period, are you surprised or could you have predicted it based on the, the over 100 people you talk to in the, in the conversation with Aaron?
- [20:27]
Ian O'Connor
I think I'm not surprised that he. I think the overriding feeling right now is that he still wants to play in maybe two years. I had a friend of his tell me two years a week ago because he kind of feels like this past season Colin was a rehab year and so if he has a good 20, 25, I, I really do expect him to try to play in, in 26. But will he even play it all? Retirement is on the table I think, I don't think the Vikings are going to sign him. That would be the best case scenario. But if you, let's say you put the Vikings roster or the Steelers and the Giants had an equivalent talent base as the Vikings. Same coaching, same talent. I actually think he picked the Giants because he does really like living in the New York, New Jersey area. Despite the fact that the jets thing was effectively a two year disaster. I do think if the Giants were had a Vikings roster I actually think he would pick the Giants. He has respect for that organization. They've had good conversations. I've talked to a couple people with the Giants who said they have no issues with him as a locker room presence, as a personality. They don't care. They think he's the best available quarterback and they want him. They've made a good offer. If I had to put 20 bucks down today, I think he'll be the starting quarterback for the Steelers because I think he'd prefer The Vikings, but the Steelers I think really do want him. They've made that clear. And Mike Tomlin gives him the kind of coaching last year. Colin, I've been doing this almost 40 years in the New York market. That is one of the two or three worst coaching jobs I've ever seen in any sport in New York. And so to go from that to Mike Tomlin, if Mike Tomlin coached the 2024 jets, they would have gone 10, 7, I'm convinced of that. That was a 107 team that went 5 and 12 with horrific coaching. So I think with the Steelers and with the playmakers they have now and that roster and particularly the coaching, I think Aaron can go 10, 7, maybe 11 and 6 and get back in the playoffs and maybe that's the way to end his career. I think where the Giants are right now because they don't have that roster that we were talking about earlier with the Vikings, he's looking at that saying, geez, do I want to finish my career going 5 and 12 for one New York team and 5 and 12 for another? Have you looked at the Giants home schedule? Let me run these eight games by you and you tell me they're going to play nine on the road next year and eight at home. You tell me who the Giants are beating from this group. Dallas. Okay, I think they can beat Dallas, but then they're playing at home. Philly, Washington, Green Bay, Kansas City, the Chargers, the vikings and the 49ers. How many of those games are they winning? Maybe two if they're lucky. They go 2 and 6 at home, then on the road they're at Dallas, they're at Philly, they're at Washington, they're at Denver, they're at Detroit. How many of those games are they winning? So I think Aaron is smart enough to look at that and say, do I really want to go 5 and 12 even if I play better and even though I don't think the Jet thing is really going to hurt his legacy, I don't think 10, 15 years from now when he's already in the hall of Fame as a Packer, people are going to be talking about his experience with the Jets. But if he does that again with a second team, I do think that'll hurt his legacy. So to me, if the Vikings aren't interested and they're going with McCarthy pretty much right away, I think the Steelers make a lot of sense. I think Tomlin is a built in insurance policy that it won't be a disaster. I think he should do That I think he'll play better, I think he'll make the playoffs, and that's the way to go out.
- [24:09]
Colin Cowherd
All right. I want to go back to basketball. Dan Hurley and the Hurley family, obviously they're smart, they're aggressive. They're sort of baked into our college basketball ideology and culture. Over the course of my life, you know, the dad, the coach, Bobby, Dan. The only thing I've ever worried about, Dan Hurley, and I think this is sort of a problem that arises with great success. And the kind of personality types that often flourish in college, which are, you know, they need. They're very good with control. Nick Saban, Bobby Knight, Urban Meyer. They flourish with control. That's why they don't like professional football. They lack. They don't have. They can't get their arms quite around the program. You're dealing with agents, you're dealing with impulsive owners. So it's like. Like the duality of life. Your greatest strength often becomes a burden. And I look at Dan Hurley's kind of treatment of the officials, and there's talk that he's gotten more difficult in the athletic department. I see that he's co writing a book with you instead of you're writing it. And I look at this from afar because I like. And I've talked to him and I really like him and I really enjoy. When I was in Connecticut, I became very fond of the UConn program. And I think one of the great coaches of my time is Jim Calhoun, who built a powerhouse in Stores, Connecticut. You've been around him this season. Was it as ugly close to the program as it was from the outside? Starting in. That was it. Maui tournament, you know, early in the season.
- [25:46]
Ian O'Connor
Lovely. And Howe, but they recovered from that and. And he did to some extent. I think he was wounded by some of the criticism, but later acknowledged that his behavior on the sideline was too much. It was over the top. And I think he only has the one technical on the mainland, as he said recently, and that was it. And he did get caught saying, I'm the best coach in the bleeping sport. He didn't know the camera was on him. Of course. He had the thing at Creighton, the two rings, two rings, baldy thing. And I think. I don't know. That one didn't bother me so much because it was Dollar beer night at Creighton. So you invited a guy from Jersey City to Dollar beer night. You cursed him out for 2 hours and 15 minutes. And then on his way off the court following his interview, he got cursed out again and he said some things and I didn't have a problem with that, so. But I think that UConn has been all over the map with this season. At times they've looked like a top 10 team. Now after Maui, they beat Gonzaga, Texas and Baylor. And once McNeely got hurt and missed eight games, he's their best player. He's going to be a lottery pick. Just the season sort of went sideways a little bit. It's been inconsistent, better of late. They've won what, five of their last six and of course lose to Creighton in the Big E semis. But they're a team. I'll say this, Colin. They and Dan I actually think has done a really, really good coaching job. Roster construction maybe not so much. It's almost like he's overcome his own construction of the roster. And there are a lot of holes with this team and he's coached his way around those holes and got them to a point where, okay, they're an eight seed. I think they'll beat Oklahoma and I think they'll scare Florida in round two and probably lose that game. But if you told me and the way this season has gone, if you told me they could upset Florida in round two, I would believe it. If you told me they were going to lose to Oklahoma in round one, I would believe it. That's the way this season has gone. But I will say this, if I'm the Gators, I feel wronged a little bit. Like you're telling me after the season we've had as a number one seed, I'm getting Dan Hurley and the Huskies again, a team at certain points of this year they played like a top 10 team and they're a two time defending champion. I don't want them in the second round as a number one seed. So, yeah, it. Listen, with Hurley, it's always interesting behind the scenes. One thing Colin, I think a lot of people don't realize nationally, I think in Connecticut they do, is behind the scenes. He has a holistic approach to coaching his kids. They know he loves them.
- [28:15]
Jeremy Hobson
Now.
- [28:16]
Ian O'Connor
That's not something he grew up with with his dad, with coaches in the Big east, with his own coach in the Big East. But he, he learned and, and the fact that he got screamed at during games and he remembers how that felt. People don't realize that in games it is rare when he ever screams at an individual player. Now in timeouts, he'll get on the group, he'll challenge them. You have to do that as a coach, halftime, behind the closed locker room door, he'll, he'll challenge guys, but during a game, in front of a lot of people watching on TV and in the arena, he almost never screams at a player. And there are times when I'm looking for him to do it because some egregious mistake will be made and he doesn't do it. So I give him a lot of credit for that and I just don't think he gets any, any credit for that as well.
- [29:02]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah, well, I, I also think sometimes we compare, which is of course the thief of Joy, the 37 and three UConn Huskies that won the national title. To me, this is just my opinion, was the best college basketball team from coaching to construction, since Billy Donovan's two time champion Florida Gators. They could do everything. They had so much dexterity and size, the ability to defend the rim, the wing, the point. I thought Billy Donovan's teams, that second year when he brought them all back, that was a machine. And I mean, they were, I mean, humiliating good teams. I think UConn's the best team I've seen since then. I mean, all of those guys that went to the NBA, from Portland to San Antonio, they've all been outstanding. So I don't think it, I think in today's nil, when people cherry pick you and recruiting every man for himself, I think we have to be. I had even Coach K had certain champions that didn't live up to the Grant Hill, you know, Bobby Hurley Leitner level teams. I think over the course of time, Dan Hurley may look back and think, Jesus, I was a young coach, that's the best team I've ever had. I mean, you know, college basketball, you can be encyclopedic. I thought last year's team was insane. I really did.
- [30:17]
Ian O'Connor
But I put last year's team right there with the early 90s Vegas teams and Duke teams and those were machines too. Even though Duke derailed Vegas. I think going into that Final Four, that might have been the best team I'd ever seen. Tarik and unlv and then I covered them. Yeah, I know you did. And yeah, so I think the UConn team from last year and four guys go to the NBA and yeah, that's right there with the best college basketball teams of my lifetime. No question. And I think one thing that should be pointed out is Billy Donovan, off those back to back NCAA championship teams, didn't go to the NCAA tournament in year three. He went to the NIT. Coach K wins back to back in 91, 92 and 93. Loses in the second round. If Dan Hurley can find a way to beat Oklahoma and then Florida, he will be the first coach since John Wooden with a back to back championship team to get to the Sweet 16. That's how hard it is to maintain it. Now you look today in college sports, maintaining anything is next to impossible because there's perpetual free agency. Everyone's a free agent. I think Dan in this Austin, he's really going to look at because he likes building something and maybe adding pieces from other programs, but not running a mercenary program where you're just grabbing pieces from everywhere else. He likes to build and likes to have a core of homegrown talent. But can you do that? And I'm watching St. John's play UConn, right, Leon McNeely, again, top 15, NBA pick, best player. He's a freshman. You're talking about a kid who's now what, 18, 19 years old. And I see him covering Kadari Richmond of St. John's Kadari Richmond did a year of prep school and this is his fifth year in college. Excellent player, but he's like he's 24. And I'm seeing the two standing next to each other. Kadari Richmond looks like an NBA player, physically strong and mature guy and just knows how to play the game. And McNeely looks like a teenager. So it's hard when you're playing against these programs that have older, stronger guys who've played at multiple schools. Good luck with that. I think the coaches who like to build and keep homegrown talent, it's a bit of a problem right now.
- [32:35]
Colin Cowherd
You know, you have always picked iconic people to write books about. Belichick, Jeter, coach K. Aaron Rodgers, now Dan Hurley, who if he stays in college basketball for another decade, will win more titles. Storrs is built for it and so is he. And they really people again, they really dominate like a four state region of recruiting, which is especially if you look at Hurley, you know, they. He gets those people just, you know, out west they think there's so much talent in Los Angeles. But it gets splintered. You know, UCLA gets one, USC gets one, Arizona gets one, Gonzaga gets one, Oregon gets one. Boy, in that Northeast corridor, you know, UConn can really get. Now that Jay Wright's gone. He was getting the DMV cherry picking that it's. UConn has a chance. You know, it's just funny right now, UConn and St. John's if Pitino stays for five years and Hurley stays for five. In this city that we think about baseball and football and the Knicks, these college basketball programs, it's like the halcyon days of the sport. It's, I feel like New York, you know, everybody thinks college basketball's dead, but with Nil Ian, a lot of these players are not going to go to the G League. They're going to stay at college for one more year. So I feel like college basketball has had like been semi dead. It's been a three week sport for a decade and I kind of feel like the nil is a life preserver for it.
- [34:08]
Ian O'Connor
I think you're right and it's crazy. You saw Steve Alford's rant about it, which was entertaining and, and a lot of what he said is true. But listen, and what, what's also true is college basketball needs rivalries. They need people to stay. So you need Hurley and Patino for another few years because there is real tension there in that relationship and that's a very good thing. I, I just think Dan Hurley overall is good for, for sports and college basketball because you need villains too. And I think dynasties are good. I think evil empires are good, villains are good. You need that. And you're right. College basketball has been a three to four week sport. And in New York, New York's really a pro town. But when St. John's is this good, St. John's can take over New York City. It can take New York away from the Knicks.
- [34:56]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah.
- [34:57]
Ian O'Connor
And so I, I listen. What's rick patino now? 72. I think he can coach another five years. He's got so much energy and now everybody is going to want to play for him. UConn is always going to get players. Dan Hurley is going to win at least another championship too. I do think at some point he'll try the NBA. Maybe a little bit down the road. But that, that Hurley Patino thing, you could, that could carry the sport, particularly on the east coast. And I think it plays out that way.
- [35:32]
Young Pueblo
It's the last game of the season and with amex, you can save time with card member entrances at select venues and go straight to the action so you can catch every moment. That's the powerful backing of American Express. Terms apply. Learn more@american express.com With Amex, we live.
- [35:49]
Jeremy Hobson
In a divided country.
- [35:50]
Ian O'Connor
I am a lifelong Republican with all.
- [35:53]
Jeremy Hobson
Kinds of different people.
- [35:54]
Ian O'Connor
You know, I'm a mother, I'm a grandmother.
- [35:57]
Jeremy Hobson
That's why we started the middle with Jeremy Hobson. It's about bringing voices not from the extremes, but from the vast middle into the national conversation.
- [36:05]
Ian O'Connor
Anna, I'm calling from Las Vegas.
- [36:07]
Jeremy Hobson
Each week we bring together an all star panel. Mark Cuban, so great to have you on the Middle.
- [36:12]
Ian O'Connor
Thanks for having me, Jeremy.
- [36:13]
Jeremy Hobson
Neil Degrasse Tyson, welcome to the Middle.
- [36:15]
Young Pueblo
Thanks for having me.
- [36:16]
Jeremy Hobson
And hear from ordinary Americans from from all over the country on the most important issues.
- [36:21]
Ian O'Connor
Hi, my name is Venkat.
- [36:22]
Colin Cowherd
I'm calling you from Atlanta, Georgia.
- [36:24]
Jeremy Hobson
And when you subscribe to the Middle, you also get an episode each week called One Thing Trump did that focuses on just one item from the avalanche of news.
- [36:33]
Ian O'Connor
We should be examining what our government spends its money on and are these jobs necessary? And what are we doing here? But that doesn't seem to be what we're doing in this situation.
- [36:41]
Jeremy Hobson
Listen to the Middle with Jeremy Hobson on the iHeartRadio Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [36:52]
Colin Cowherd
I'll wrap it up with this. You know, I was saying this today. It's easy to hate California. The weather's beautiful, the California economy. Our, our governor looks like older Abercrombie and Fitch model. You know, all of our teams, you know, it's, it's the beaches. But I also think the teams out here well run. Sean McVay, Jim Harbaugh, the Dodgers, research and development and scouting. The Yankees make about 150 million more annually a year than the Dodgers do, believe it or not. But the Dodgers, because of the way they have structured contracts, have literally an all star team. I'm not sure I've ever seen an entire roster that has, like, five starting pitchers with or without Shohei Ohtani and a Freddie Freeman, Mookie. But Shohei Ohtani, Max Muncie, Teoscar Hernandez, it's just like one big bat after another. So when Garrett Cole goes down and Soto leaves, you know, there's this sense of, okay, let's just go get somebody. And, you know, I kind of look at it, and it's not that they don't have the money, and it's not that they don't have the stomach for it, but I feel like George Steinbrenner there was, you know, he made his money, I think, in Cleveland initially or something, if I recall. Yeah, but if you look at Steinbrenner, I don't know what they did on an annual basis, but not all his business decisions were good decisions. They weren't all good financial decisions. I mean, he was buying guys left and right. I see Yankee fans complain about, like, the kids don't want it as much as George. Is that fair?
- [38:47]
Ian O'Connor
Yes and no. I think that certainly Hal Steinburn is proven he's not cheap. He gave Aaron Judge the. The big money when he had to, and he offered Soto $760 million. So it's hard to say he's cheap, certainly, I think relative to his father. Here's one thing that's different. And, you know, we haven't seen. We didn't get a chance to see George Steinbrenner. In this era of baseball competing against that Dodger ownership, which I believe is an investment firm with about $300 billion in assets, George didn't have to compete against the Guggenheim partners. Right. So. But George, one thing that's different, Hal, three years ago, I believe it was in spring training, talked to some beat writers and they questioned him about the payroll and some money that wasn't being spent on talent. And he said that there are banks and partners and lenders that I have to deal with and I have to answer to. And I can tell you this, Colin. I had a lot of conversations with George Steinbert over the years. I never heard him talk about a bank, a lender, a bondholder, a partner, ever. He did not care. I actually think, like, I don't know if he cared about turning a profit. I just think that he was so driven to win and win at all costs. I actually think even if he couldn't afford it, I don't know if he would have let Steve Cohen get Juan Soto. And I'm not criticizing Hal Steinbrenner for laying out $760 million and not giving him a suite. I think that Cashman said, we didn't give Derek jr. A suite. We didn't give Garrett Cole a suite. We didn't give Aaron Judge a suite for free. If you want a suite and we're giving you $760 million, you got to pay for it. I'm sorry. So I have no problem with that stance. But I do think there is a difference, certainly in the approach of George Steinbrenner and Hal. I think you have to put it in context. Hal is dealing with the Guggenheim partners, and George did not have to deal with that. One thing I'd say about Soto, I don't know. I don't think I would have made that move to the Mets. The money was just a little different. And it seemed like he preferred Steve Cohen's approach to hows. But I grew up a Yankees fan. I'm biased. I was a Thurman Reggie guy in the 70s, and I don't leave Aaron Judge and I don't leave that right field ports and I don't leave the tradition when you can be the next Mickey Mantle or Joe DiMaggio and you're 25, 26 years old, you stay with the Yankees. But he decided to go to the Mets. The problem is now that he goes to the Mets, he made it that much harder to get to the World Series. Why? Because in the American League, who do The Yankees, even without Garrett Cole now, without Heel, without Stan for a while, the American League, who do. Who are they dealing with? Who do they have to get through? Then you look at the National League, you got to get through the Dodgers, you've got to get through the Braves, you got to get through the Phillies, maybe a little bit the Padres, but particularly the Dodgers. You don't put yourself on the same side of the draw as the Los Angeles Dodgers. And that's what Soto did by going to the Mets. And if he ends up winning three rings over the next 12, 13, 14 years, God bless him. But I just think he made it that much harder to do by going to the National League.
- [41:59]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah, I think that's, I think that's really well put. I mean, God, the Padres are young. I mean, like, I have like either six, six or seven really good players in their prime. Had a guy that could have been Rookie of the year last year. Dodgers are stacked. Acuna back for the Braves. It really is. And for the record, you know, nobody'd be shocked if the Phillies end up in the, you know, National League Championship Series against the Dodgers. So, yeah, whereas I feel like we've seen the best of Houston, I kind of feel like we've seen the best of it. Maybe, maybe that's not true, but some of those players that were in their prime four years ago or they're just, you know, it doesn't feel quite the same. So, you know, and the Red Sox.
- [42:48]
Ian O'Connor
Are better with Bregman. They're a factor now. And so, you know, the Yankees will have to certainly deal with them, but they own the Central. Every year, whenever they play one of those teams in the playoffs, they win. And so, yeah, I just, that's really what I looked at more than anything else when so was making a decision. First of all, I'm not leaving Aaron Judge. Is it possible that he said, okay, we're the modern day Ruth and Gehrig, he's always going to be Ruth, I'm always going to be Gehrig. If I go to the Mets, I'm there Ruth, and he's the best player they've likely ever had. And so I don't know if being the man, for lack of a better term, was important to him. It's not something he ever verbalized. But now there's no question that's his team with the Yankees. It was always going to be 1 and 1A, and he was 1AMy suspicion is human nature being what it is, that was something of a factor in his decision.
- [43:45]
Colin Cowherd
Ian O'Connor. He'll have a book coming out. It's a while down the road. In about six, seven months. It's with Dan Hurley. Never Stop Life, Leadership and what It Takes to Be Great. Dan Hurley, coming out in September. One of my favorites. Now you're not writing a column anymore. I know that was your choice. Just the regression of that side of the business. Everything changes. You're busier with your family than ever. Do you just wake up one day and say, I've been a columnist a long time. I want to do the book thing.
- [44:17]
Ian O'Connor
That pretty much was it. I was doing both. And it got to a point where the workload was such that I don't know if I could do books the way I want to do them and dive in and talk to hundreds of people and report the hell out of these things and still write four or five columns a week. And I'm not saying I'll never go back to it. I don't know if I'll go back to it full time. Yeah, column writing is a little bit of a lost art. It's unfortunate. I still think there's a real place for it in Commentary in this country. And there are some people who are just incredible columnists. And obviously we lost John Feinstein, who was a great columnist beside being an author. And he was someone I always looked up to as just a guy who was great at both and could do both and was so prolific. And I admired that and envied it. And one thing about John, and let's say you're the same way, Colin, If I run into you somewhere, we could just have a regular conversation, talk about 5 million things. John was a real titan of the industry. And yet. And I used to tell him this, we'd sit down at the Masters and have conversations about anything. And I said, you know, a lot of people who've achieved what you have in our industry would not have this conversation with me. You just would be unapproachable. Don't ever change. If you change, I'm going to call you out on it. And he used to laugh. So if he ever got a little arrogant, which he would at times, I would say, wait, are you you turning into that person I warned you not to turn into? And we would get a kick out of that. But yeah, so there's a person who did it for so long at such a high level, both being a columnist, a lot of college basketball, but other sports as well, and an author that. That's the person I really looked up to in this business probably more than anyone.
- [46:02]
Colin Cowherd
How was the book Season on the Brink viewed among writers? Transcendent.
- [46:08]
Ian O'Connor
Yeah, it still is. And I think his passing, unfortunately. But I think we'll sen younger people maybe who didn't get a chance to read it back to that and look at it and see it created a genre of books and it was just so, so good. And what I love column is that Coach K, and I'm sorry, I'm not going to be able to credit the reporter who got this interview. Might have been Pete Thammel, might have been Pat 40. But somebody talked to Coach K the other day and when John passed away and he said that, he basically said Knight didn't understand that John really did him a favor. He showed Bob Knight, the real Bob Knight, to the reader, to the fan. And that book was a great book and it portrayed Knight the right way and it was very fair. And I was glad that Coach K said that on the record, because when I read that book, I did not think Knight was portrayed as a monster.
- [47:03]
Colin Cowherd
No, I didn't either.
- [47:04]
Ian O'Connor
But I think a lot of people, I think Bob Knight thought he was portrayed as a monster and he wasn't. He humanized him. In fact, I thought he did him a favor. So, yeah, that book. I have never met a sports writer as bitter as sometimes we can be who ever said anything but just extraordinary things about that work. Now, some of John's other books maybe didn't match. That'd be impossible to churn out, books matching that level of greatness. But that is right there with Moranis's book on Vince Lombardi as among the two or three best sports books I've ever read.
- [47:44]
Colin Cowherd
Ian O'Connor is always. I love talking to you, man. I wish I lived out East. I'd see you more often.
- [47:49]
Ian O'Connor
Yeah, well, I'd listen. It's. It's always an honor to be with you and a pleasure and, and just thanks for having me.
- [47:57]
Colin Cowherd
The volume. This is Nikki Glazer from the Nikki Glazer Podcast. Have you guys seen this new commercial from Stand up to all hate.
- [48:06]
Ian O'Connor
Hate.
- [48:07]
Colin Cowherd
It's basically Snoop Dogg and Tom Brady going back and forth with reasons that they hate each other. But then when you really listen to them, the reasons for the hate are just so stupid. I don't know. This. This commercial really got me. It's a strong reminder that hate in our country continues to be out of control. So join us at iHeart in standing up to it. If you see hate, speak up. Call it out. Your voice is a powerful tool in this fight. You can learn more by following OTs upwithhate.
- [48:32]
Jeremy Hobson
We live in a divided country and our media couldn't be more polarizing. That's why we started the Middle with Jeremy Hobson. It's about bringing voices not from the extremes, but from the vast middle into the national conversation. Each week we hear from ordinary Americans from all over the country. And when you subscribe to the Middle, you also get an episode each week called One Thing Trump did that focuses on just one item from the avalanche of news. Listen to the Middle with Jeremy Hobson on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [49:04]
Young Pueblo
Love at first swipe? I highly doubt it. Reality TV and social media have love all wrong. So what really makes relationships last? On this episode of Dope Labs, poet and relationship expert Young Pueblo breaks down the psychology of love and provides eye opening insights and advice. We all me it's a big realization.
- [49:25]
Colin Cowherd
Moment that you should not be postponing your happiness. Like your greatest happiness is not necessarily going to like come from a relationship. Your partner. They should add to your happiness, but your happiness is really coming from within you.
- [49:40]
Young Pueblo
Listen to Dope labs on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Are you hungry? Colleen Witt here and Eating While Broke is back for season four every Thursday on the Black Podcast Network. This season we've got a legendary lineup serving up broke dishes and even better stories. On the menu. We have Tony Baker, Nick Cannon, Melissa Ford, October London and Carrie Harper. Howie Turning Big Macs into big moves. Catch Eating While Broke every Thursday on the Black Effect Podcast Network. IHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts. Wherever you get your favorite shows, come hungry for season four.