← The Herd with Colin Cowherd
The Herd with Colin Cowherd
Colin Cowherd Podcast - BEST OF Nick Wright - Joe Burrow In TROUBLE, Cowboys Big Mistake, Baker Is Underrated
00:54:20
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- [00:00]
A
This is an iHeart podcast.
- [00:04]
B
Oikos presents 15 seconds of strength Here we go. Steve's got a trunk full of groceries and no one to help him.
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C
Oh, that's tough.
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B
Jim looks like a five trip load at least. He grabs the first bag, the second bob. It looks like he's trying to do.
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A
It all one trip.
- [00:18]
B
He shimmies the door open, steps over the dog. Oh, and he stumbles. Oh, right into the kitchen without missing a beat. Jim. Now that's a man who eats his protein packed Oikos. With 15 grams of complete protein in each cup. Oikos Triple Zero can help build strength for every day. Oikos Stronger makes everything better.
- [00:35]
C
This podcast is sponsored by Total Wireless, the official wireless partner of ufc. When you're streaming the fight or sharing those takedown highlights, you need a wireless provider that keeps you close to the action. With Total Wireless, you're covered by the Verizon 5G network, so you don't have to worry about your connection being knocked out at the biggest moments. It's not something you can usually say about a wireless provider, but Total Wireless really does have your back. They're in your corner every second of the day, so you never miss a thing. Visit totalwireless.com or visit your local Total Wireless store to learn more about how Total Wireless can be in your corner. 5G access requires a 5G capable device and a 5G service area. Additional terms apply. See website for details.
- [01:26]
D
A wingman flies close with unwavering dedication at Folds of Honor. A wingman stands with families of Americans, fallen or disabled heroes. The burial flag given to their grieving family is folded 13 times. As a wingman, your $13 monthly donation provides scholarships to their spouses and children. 13 folds $13 Become a Wingman Join today@foldsofonor.org this message brought to you by the official whiskey of the Colin Coward Podcast. Green River Whiskey Green River Whiskey is the 10th oldest distillery in Kentucky and was once the most expensive Whiskey purchased when 20 barrels were traded for shares in a gold mine. From single barrel bourbons to straight rye, Green river is the perfect combo of rich flavor and richer history. Visit greenriverwhiskey.com to discover a legend in a bottle. A product of Green River Distilling Company, Owensboro, Kentucky. Alcohol by volume varies by product. Greenriverwhiskey.com, please drink responsibly the volume.
- [02:29]
A
Can I ask you a question?
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D
Sure, yeah, go ahead.
- [02:33]
A
After this year, take this year out of it. This group of quarterbacks, the Mahomes, Allen Burrow, Lamar, that group, they're all 28, 29. Let's say, optimistically, they all have 10 more good years. That's probably on the high end, but let's give them a decade. 10 more seasons, the 20, 25 season onward, man, at least one of those guys is never making, much less winning a Super bowl, like, moving forward. So I know Joe's already made one, because here's the way I was thinking about. I'm like, okay, because everyone's like, do you think Josh will eventually get one? And intellectually, I'm like, yes, of course. He's the second best player in the league. Of course he'll get one. But then I'm like, well, wait a minute. Okay, so in the next 10 years, let's say Patrick slows down. He only makes four of the.
- [03:33]
D
Or Andy. Andy Reid retires.
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A
Yeah, so. So let's just say. Let's say Patrick only makes four of the next ten. So there's six. So that's six. Four. Lamar, Josh, Joe. I know you've got Justin HERBERT Getting to one eventually. Bo Nix, C.J. stroud. And we're talking about 10 years. So is a couple more generations coming into the league like these guys. All of these guys being in the AFC is devastating for the resumes they're trying to build.
- [04:06]
D
Well, and the one that's in trouble is Joe Burrow. The Bengals had to sell naming rights to the stadium to pay his contract. People don't understand this. The gentleman who. First of all, the Bengals don't have any money. They don't have any money. It's just like the poorest ownership group. Joe Burrow knows it. They had to sell naming rights to a stadium to pay him. They, they, they started peeling off players even before they paid Jamar Chase. They're peeling off of them now.
- [04:32]
A
Yeah, they haven't paid Jamar yet. Yeah, yeah.
- [04:35]
D
And they're already peeling off players. They are the opposite of the Eagles. They are anti risk and reward. They take no risks. Tobin, the general manager, has been there forever. Pleasant, very nice guy, got no power. I mean, the Brown family runs the organization. They are essentially a Triple A operation in Major League Baseball that happens to have Joe Burrow.
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A
Joe Burrow.
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D
People make fun of the Raiders. The Raiders, because of some new ownership groups that have come in, are flush with cash. That's why they can pay four coaches and three general managers. They got nothing but money. They got. Mark Davis has nothing but money. And the Raiders are a brand. And also, it's Las Vegas. It's A growing city. There's real money there. No state tax. Very attractive place. Cincinnati, they got no money. Burrow, Burrow. They'll never have a stacked roster. The only time to really be great with him was when he was on the rookie contract, when they paid Jamar Chase. They're out of money like Joe Burrow. I feel terrible for him. Joe Burrow would need to be superhuman. I mean, this year he was as good as he's ever been. They couldn't make the playoffs. Herbert's going to get better with Harbaugh.
- [05:46]
A
Like, that's going to only get better, right? That's what I'm saying. Like, you're just Herbert.
- [05:51]
D
And I think Burrow is the one in trouble.
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A
And here's the other. Here's the other concern for all those guys. Will they maybe different for Joe because he's done it, but will those guys be able to play Patrick Mahomes, beat him, which is part of the hypothetical, and then psychologically be able to recenter and be like, that wasn't the Super Bowl. Not like we.
- [06:22]
D
We.
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A
Like that's the thing that I would worry about for the Bills. Not I do think, listen, Mahomes is not going to go undefeated against Allen in his career. In the playoffs, they will win. But man, if next year the Bills finally beat the Chiefs in the playoffs, it's going to be really hard to psychologically then reset and be like, actually the next game's the tougher, bigger one. And so that's. I. The we have never. I can't remember a time when it felt this disproportionate in quarterbacking talent conference to conference. And what it's going to mean for these guys kind of legacies when it comes to who they were as far as winning players or winning championships.
- [07:13]
D
You know, I love experimenting on podcasting. I like talking about stuff, where stuff is going and where it's headed, what I. What I find interesting about where sports is going. So I have, I have. I think we both like this. So I grew up a baseball fan, but the sport, it's like what Democrats name like Bill Maher will say, the Democratic Party is leaving me. I haven't changed. I was a baseball guy over a football guy when I was a kid, and then the sport just got slow and ponderous and football was just better on television. And I've lived through TV like, that's my life as a kid. I'm going to throw something at you that I think is going to happen is that I think if you take out the NFL that every other sport is dependent on where the best players play. And it does not help. For instance, college football got too Southern and too regional. Alabama, Georgia, Clemson. It hurt the sport. Michigan and Ohio State's emergence will help the sport. Over time, it will bring a big group. I'm a West coast guy. I was a Big Ten, Pac 12 guy because the Rose Bowl. So I'm more of a Big Ten guy than an SEC guy. Although I can acknowledge the SEC is great. I think we're going to have a change here in the next five to ten years in sports. And that is when the regional sports networks went away and Fox let them go, they were. They were out of money an hour later. And those were vital to Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, Oakland, Kansas City, Seattle. They were vital.
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A
Sure.
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D
The sport now is basically in the hands of the Dodgers, Steve Cohen. And I mean, I'm not sure the Yankees and the Steinbrenners can compete. Steinbrenners are saying they can't. What you're seeing now in baseball is all the riveting players play for the Dodgers, the Phillies, the Mets or the Yankees. And I think we're going to have a renaissance in baseball is that with the. With these regional networks gone, there's not even. Forget the fake appearance, that there's parody. There are like four kings at the top. Everything else is a pawn, nothing else.
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A
And you think that's good for the sport?
- [09:49]
D
No, no. What I think it's good for is the primary weakness of baseball. It's television ratings. The attendance is fine. It's always dominated the summer. It has died on television. Last year's National League playoffs, it was like New York, L.A. san Diego and eight of the best 13 players in the sport. And that we always think parity matters. No, it doesn't. The truth of the matter is if the Celtics, Chicago Bulls and the Lakers were great right now, the NBA would be in great shape. Oklahoma City is not good for the league. There is this belief. This is what I always say about Kansas City. Dynasties aren't bad. Great players on great brands are not bad for the league. I think we're going to have a renaissance. I think the Dodgers, Steve Cohen and the Mets, the Yankees and maybe one other team will not be able to afford the best players. That. That's it. Philadelphia, maybe Phillies, because their attendance and their merchandising is so strong. I don't know about their tv, radio deals locally, is that. I think baseball has something the NBA doesn't. All their fascinating players. I mean, if I told you this, the Six big TV products. They have Ohtani Judge, Bryce Harper, Mookie Betts. Yeah, no, it's all Manny Machado, Ted Tee. They're all in the big. They're all in these big, glossy, favorable markets. There's my take is that we're going to have a renaissance, that baseball is going to come storming back. It did in the postseason.
- [11:20]
A
So I think this year is the most important year baseball's had in a very, very long time because of two things, and you kind of alluded to both of them. One is the momentum of last postseason, which is absolutely tremendous. And the other is the general angst and annoyance by the average fan towards the NBA. Yeah, I think that it is incumbent upon baseball to. And I don't have a. Listen, I haven't spent a lot of time thinking about this, so I don't even know exactly what I mean by this, but to seize this moment, because I agree with you. I mean, we did our show from the World Series. Now, that's because it was in New York, so it was easy to get to, but also because we were all so into it, it was great. It felt like such a cool event. And it was. It was so lively and active. And it made me remember when. You know, and when we. When I first started, it was shortly after. When you first started was before I even had a show. We were doing our shows from the NBA Finals, even though they were not in la. It was Warriors, Cavs, every year. And we traveled to Cleveland to do our shows because it was such an event that I think baseball. So I was talking to a mutual friend of ours. I don't think you'll mind me saying this, so I'll just. Yeah, I'll quote him on it. Our friend Maverick, and he said that the media is moving towards an events model where things have to feel like an event. And it's why even though Mike Tyson, 60 years old and could barely get to the ring, that was huge. It felt. And the NFL, every game feels like an event.
- [13:27]
D
You'll have the College Football Playoff. It's.
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A
Football playoff is exactly. UFC feels big, is an event. And so that's really, really hard for baseball. So, you know, because there's so many games. So finding ways, maybe it is via marketing their stars to find to pick these benchmarks that are their events of the year or marquee matchups or game.
- [13:56]
D
This is where Fox gets credit. They're the one that came up with the London game, the game in the cornfield.
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A
So, yeah, the Field of Dreams game. 100. That felt big. That's an event.
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D
Yep.
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A
Something cool like that that makes it stand out from the. The noise of everything else. That's right.
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D
Yeah. No, that was Fox. Fox management came and said, you guys need more big events. And they work. By the way, I watched the London games. They were cool. It felt special.
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A
The Field of Dreams game is cool every year. It's just awesome. It looks cool. It's. It's great.
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D
Yeah, no, I think Maverick Carter's right on that. I think there's a lot of reasons for that, but I think you have to, you know, like, I. It's easy to root for the Dodgers or the Chiefs. Like, I have the Dodgers on throughout the summer in Los Angeles. Everybody, every other guy that comes to the bat is an All Star. It's like an All Star game. I mean, seriously, you get down to like, Teoscar Hernandez is batting fifth, and you're like, jesus, he just dominated the series in the Bronx. Like, everybody's great. The whole damn team is great. Like, I mean, they've got Tommy Edmond batting eighth. He was like the NLCS mvp or like, it's not. It's an All Star team. So unlike the Chiefs, it's easy.
- [15:06]
A
One of the greatest radio shows in America, and it has now been on. You'll be more impressed by this than anyone. For 23 years running in the same market is a show called the Church of Laszlo. And it's on. It used to be on an alternative rock station. It's now on a regular rock station. Doesn't matter. But they. Their frequency just changed. But it's been this dude, Laszlo and his buddy Slim Fast. I was their sports guy for years. And last, I'm going to tell a real, you know, quick tangent. People like it. Laszlo is to me, he was one of my mentors in radio and just also one of the coolest stories ever. He was from Detroit, alcoholic, drug addict, went to the Navy, I think got kicked out of the Navy because of those two things I just mentioned. I don't again, I might get a story. Something wrong. Kind of was always a mess, always did radio and then got sober. Started this state and is like a wild liberal on the radio in Kansas City, Missouri, where when he started his show, every single day he would start his show by saying, it has been X amount of days since George W. Bush declared mission accomplished in Iraq and then went on. And he's on the air to this day because he's so talented and they're so. I think it's the funniest show in America. So say all that. So when I first started in radio, they were down the hall. They. They had actually just come back from Seattle, where they used to be simulcast in Seattle and Kansas City. And. And Laszlo said to me, he's like, listen, man. And this wasn't his original theory, but it was the first person I had heard it from. I'm like, 24. He's like, you got to know what type of horse you are for this company. I'm like, what do you mean? He's like, there's three horses in radio. He's like, there's the money horse, there's the show horse, and there's the workhorse. He's like, and you're going to screw up if you don't know which horse you are like, okay. He's like, the money horse is the guy who's always going to have a job because all the big clients love him. He's like, the car dealership's his buddy, and this guy. And so he does all the reads because they all love him. He's safe. He's like, the show horse is the guy who they want to be able to put on the billboard, the name we got. He's like. He's usually like someone who does, you know, a former athlete or does local TV and they feels like a celebrity. He's like, none of the advertisers know who the hell you are, and nobody knows your name. He's like, that just leaves the workhorse. He's like, and that's what it sounds like. You're going to keep your job because you're going to work harder than everybody. Do you need me to pick up that shift? I can do this. I can do that. You're also going to work. You're going to know everything. Like, that's your path, man. And honest to God, it's one of the most important conversations I ever had in my career, because I was like, okay, that's who I'm going to be. And he was telling me this. He's like, you think you're the show horse? You think, like, you're a big. He's like, but you're not. Maybe one day you will be, but you're not. And that. I was going to say this because Draymond recognized early on, I'm the workhorse. I've got to do the dirty work. I do all this. But the more interesting part of it is the Shador thing, which is Shador fell in the draft because he thought he was a show horse. And teams were looking at him as, are you a workhorse? And he thought, I'm Shador Sanders. I'm interviewing you. I've got all these people competing for my services. And they looked at it as, here's Shador Sanders. Are you going to pick up this mistake we put in the film? Are you going to know the playbook? Are you going to do this? And if you don't know the job you're applying for, how do you nail the interview? And so I think that is like a really, it's a really something I've just carried with me forever, like, poignant piece of advice, which is it doesn't so much matter how you view yourself. It matters in an employment setting. It matters how your employer or potential employer views you. And are you representing that? Are you? You know, and so that, I think was Shador's biggest mistake is he didn't know what job he was interviewing for and he didn't know who he was. To these teams.
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B
Oikos presents 15 seconds of strength. Here we go. Steve's got a trunk full of groceries and no one to help him.
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C
Oh, that's tough, Jim.
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B
Looks like a five trip load at least. He grabs the first bag, the second bob. It looks like he's trying to do.
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A
It all in one trip.
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B
He shimmies the door open, steps over the dog. Oh, and he stumbles. Oh, right into the kitchen without missing a beat. Jim. Now that's a man who eats his protein packed Oikos. With 15 grams of complete protein in each cup. Oikos Triple Zero can help build strength for every day. Oikos stronger makes everything better.
- [20:23]
D
Hey, hey, folks, this message brought to you by the one and only official whiskey of the Colin Coward podcast, Green River Whiskey. Now here's a story that'll knock your socks off. Picture this. Founded way back in 1885, Green River Whiskey is OG Kentucky Cool, the 10th oldest distillery in the state. And get this, it was so valuable back in the day that 20 barrels of the good stuff were traded for shares in a gold mine. That's liquid gold, literally. But like any great drama, tragedy struck in 1917 with a fire that almost wiped it off the map. Cue the hero music. It was rebuilt on the same hallowed grounds. Let me tell you better than ever. So whether you're sipping their single barrel bourbon or a smooth straight rye, know you're raising a glass to history. Folks, here's to Green River Whiskey, where rich flavor meets richer stories. Hop on over to greenriverwhiskey.com, discover a legend in a bottle today. Cheers to that. A product of Green River Distilling Company Owensboro, Kentucky. Alcohol by volume, varies by product. Greenriverwhiskey.com, please drink responsibly. A wingman never leaves your side. They've got your six, come what may. Folds of Honor proudly provides the same unwavering support for families of American heroes. A Folds of Honor Wingman donates $13 a month, which becomes life changing scholarships for the spouses, sons and daughters of fallen or disabled U.S. service members and first responders join their ranks today as a wingman. More than 3,000 scholarships have been made possible by wingman donors, preserving legacies and open doors for the next generation. Your $13 monthly gift, profoundly symbolic 13 represents the number of times a flag is folded before given to grieving families of American heroes, each fold a symbol of sacrifice, of honor, of remembrance. Let's lock arms around these families and turn that symbol into something more education, opportunity and hope. Become a wingman today@foldsofhonor.org this podcast is.
- [22:20]
C
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- [24:00]
D
Well, and I'll throw something at you. One of the things why we didn't get an honest read because clearly Pittsburgh never viewed him. They viewed him as Kenny Pickett. Daniel Jeremiah said that when his intel was that they viewed him is a little better than Kenny Pickett as a prospect. Well, Kenny Pickett, by the two GMs, two of the GMs in the league that I really respect, one of them with a couple trophies, viewed Kenny Pickett as a top to middle of the third quarterback. And that's exactly what he is. He's a backup and an occasional starter. If somebody gets hurt, which is his role potentially in Cleveland, I don't think he'll be there long, but that's his current role. So the reason that Shedeur didn't get an honest evaluation is because Deion Sanders knows so many people in the NFL and he's worked at many broadcast companies and nobody wanted to be honest. This is what I've always said about bullies. And Dion is not a bully. The downside to being forceful and intimidating and a bully is, is you actually get lied to by everybody in your life because nobody wants confrontation. People don't like it. Your wife doesn't, your kids don't. So the big brash bully, the top sales guy, the egomaniac Bobby Knight in his prime never got an honest opinion because he intimidated people. So you're much better having relationships where you ask questions you don't always have an opinion, where people feel free to criticize you and that that will give you a more honest appraisal of who you truly are and what you need to accomplish. Bullies get lied to more than anybody. Although they think they're always demanding and getting the truth, the exact opposite is true. They have visions of they're deluded to a degree because they're always being told, yes, you're right and absolutely and all. So the other group that never gets an honest appraisal are superstars and celebrities. You know, nobody ever told George Clooney in his prime, eh, you're not really. It's not working for me on this because he was so big you didn't want to piss him. And his, you know, it's like Leonardo DiCaprio in his prime, don't offend him. That won't go well. And so being a superstar, Dion's like a superstar. I mean, he's doing commercials with Nick Saban and he's a 500 coach at Colorado. That's all you need to know. Right? So. So I, I think that's what hurt Shador is nobody just came out and just said, and, and by the way, Arch Manning may get a little bit of this too.
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A
Sure.
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D
Is that people are. Nobody's going to come out and say, I gotta be honest, he couldn't beat out Quinn yours. There's a reason.
- [26:58]
A
So I. He's.
- [26:59]
D
He's okay.
- [27:00]
C
That's.
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A
Well, that's a. That's a. I've just assumed Arch Manning is a guaranteed top five pick. But I, So. But that, but I don't know as much about college football as you and I'm not even saying that's what you're saying. Here's the other thing. The Shador thing revealed to me, and it's not that I needed it revealed. I, it was it. It shined a light on. We have traded as a sports public, true insiders for instant transactional gratification. We. We have valued. Who is going to have this thing that was going to be announced by the team in 90 minutes anyway. First over, what is actual informational journalism? Which is somebody said this. And again, I wish I could quote him, but I can't. Journalism is publishing or uncovering information that otherwise would not get out there. That's what it is. Like I. This story would remain hidden or fact or whatever it is. Don Van Nada did a lot of that. Like Seth Wickersham, we know the people who've done it in sports, simply being the first to say this player is signing with this team when that player signing with that team was going to become public knowledge no matter what is a different. I'm not saying it's not journalism. It's a different thing. But that is the thing that we in the general public seemingly value because that is the thing that people get paid for and get famous for as reporters. The only way to these days do that job really well is to have everyone like you. Which is why in modern sports journalism, every draft pick is great, every surgery is ahead of schedule, every MRI was better than expected, and everything is positive. Every single thing is positive. And so no, the fact that none of our insiders said, I've talked to 15 teams and 12 of them don't have Shador in their top 50. Like, nobody had this. Nobody had like, it was. It went from, is he going to be the first pick to, okay, it'll be Cam Ward. But then, you know, Shador, Giants, Browns to, oh, shit, he might slide to the Saints. And then by draft day, it was, wow, what does it mean for Aaron Rodgers? Because Shador could maybe be there at 21 and they could draft him. Yeah, the entirety of the NFL world. Nobody had.
- [30:31]
D
He.
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A
He'll be very fortunate if he is taken with the Browns or Giants. Second pick, not one person. And by the way, I'm not. I obviously didn't have it. I'm acting like I had it. But I'm an insider. And so I, I found that really telling that man, what information are we actually getting? Like, what, what is the real, real? And are the guys who actually have the real information, like, well, I know the truth here, but it's not worth it because it'll piss the wrong relationships, agents, teams, whatever, off. And so I also think that what is so stunning about this, and this last thing I'll say, because I know now we're a month old on, is shocking that Deon didn't have the information either. That nobody privately told Deion, hey, that's right.
- [31:28]
D
That's the downside, like a bully of being a beloved.
- [31:32]
A
Nobody told Dion, hey, man, don't get the truth. Like, listen, maybe they're all wrong, but the league has real questions over whether or not your son's a starter. So you got to tell him he's got to blow their socks off in this because Deion is. Whatever anyone thinks of Deion, he's obviously a loving, devoted father. That's undeniable. And he just. He had. Didn't have the information.
- [32:02]
D
That's right. Think about that. Think of how many friends he has in the NFL and not a single person. I'm telling you, Arch Manning, be very careful. The Mannings are American football royalty. Now, I will say there's a little less. They've got their own egos, but Deion's always been over the top. He's been almost at times a wrestling heel. Like he loves to, you know. And the Mannings, you know, with Arch, he's been backing up Quinn Ewers, who he's clearly better than. And they never transferred. I mean, it was. So they've handled it with grace. And I think that's the Manning's brand. But this really does go back to bullies and superstars. You'd think they'd get the inside info. They're lied to more than everybody else. You know who you don't lie to? Your cranky neighbor who you don't love. But you're going to tell them, don't mow the grass at six o' clock on a Saturday. You're going to give them a real honest, cranky opinion. The people that you don't have anything to lose. Like, just people that you don't adore. You're always willing to say, bro, that's not going to work. Don't do that. Yeah, that's hard to say to a Manning or a Deion Sanders. It's hard.
- [33:15]
A
That's really interesting.
- [33:17]
D
You know, finally, you got to bless Dallas Cowboy fans heart. They're so excited for George Pickens. And I was saying this today when Kyle Shanahan said, I can't make Trey Lance work. I made Matt Schaub a Pro Bowler. Brock Purdy, I got him to a Super Bowl. Garoppolo, I got to a Super Bowl, I can't make Trey Lance work. And the Cowboys were like, Oooh, here's a fourth round pick. Okay. When Warren Buffett says, be careful with bitcoin, I'm careful with bitcoin. When Mike Tomlin says about a receiver, listen, I can't make it work. Chase Claypool, ab, Martavius Bryant. I mean, the list goes on. Deontay Johnson, if Mike Tomlin, who is two things. Great motivator and incredibly patient with immature players. When Mike says, yeah, guys, I'm out. But Jerry, this is a personality trait. Jerry loves to save. He loves to give people jobs that need him. Chan Gailey, Mike McCarthy, Jason Garrett, Brian Schottenheimer, they feel like Jerry. Jerry is saving, that he's giving a job that's not available. McCarthy couldn't get interviews. Parcells and Jimmy Johnson didn't need him. That wore Jimmy out. Dak Prescott, fourth round, he loves. Hey, Tony Romo. Undrafted Cowboys never draft quarterbacks in the first round. They don't need Jerry. So when he goes and gets George Pickens, the reputation is out. Basically. Tomlin, I'm out. Jerry's like, I'm here. I'll make it work. I think this is Jerry's wildcatting oil days where he would hunt for gems. And I think that is literally his mindset with coaches and sometimes draft picks and players is that he feels like Pickens. He's. He's. The rest of the league is out. I am in. And I don't think long term. I think that's why the Cowboys are where the Cowboys are currently in the.
- [35:40]
A
I think that George Pickens is one of the more overrated players in the whole league. And the reason I feel that way is because I think certain football fans. This is one of my. This is one of my favorite and kind of relatively newest take, which is talent has become wildly overrated and particularly, particularly in the NFL. Obviously, you need a requisite level of talent. That goes without saying. However, this idea that talent is some cure all when this guy has been a pain in the ass every step of his football life, it is why he fell in the draft. It is why you were hearing rumors about him being available during his second year. During his third year he was traded. Here it is the he. It's. You know when you are potentially trying to get a contract in the off season and your team is in the middle of a losing streak and you show up to the Christmas day game against the Kansas City Chiefs 90 minutes before kickoff, you show up three hours before your TV show. Colin, you have 220 of them a year. He's got 17 football games and like you're just not a serious person and you're not going to contribute to winning the way your talent says you should. And so there's that. There is also the fact that trading a third round pick for a player with one year left on his contract means you probably should give him a contract extension. The only thing worse in my opinion than trading a third round pick for one year of George Pickens then letting him be a free agent is giving that guy 50 million guaranteed. So the Cowboys put themselves in a position where it's no win. Do we pay this guy early when he has never, he's never been the top 10 in the NFL of anything. He's like his career numbers are pedestrian. He's never outpaced his production, has never outpaced his targets and he is, he quits on routes quarterbacks despise a million problems there so you can't pay him. But the other thing you shouldn't do as a smart franchise is keep trading these mid round picks for rentals. And so I 2 years ago Colin, the Chiefs ended up winning the super bowl. But two years ago when the Chiefs had nothing but drops everywhere and the receivers couldn't do anything. Yeah, Pickens was available then and Wilds and Brew couldn't. Believe me, I was like I don't want him. I was like the Chiefs already are on thin ice with Kadari's Tony. Like they, you know and they, they got the Chiefs traded for canary is Tony. They gave up a fifth round pick. He had three years left on his deal and that's still. Listen he had the amazing partner turn of the super bowl but he's still ultimately got can't get right guys. Can't get right. And so I, I'm not a Pickens guy. I also think he's a somewhat overrated player and I also think for if Mike Tomlin had a hard time keeping him inside the lines. Brian Schottenheimer, in his first year as a head coach, how much of Brian Schottenheimer's time is going to be about Micah's podcast and whatever the hell George Pickens did? A lot of it is the answer to that.
- [39:35]
D
Yeah, if a rehab center's like, yeah.
- [39:37]
A
We'Re out, we're done. Exactly right. It's insane.
- [39:43]
B
Oikos presents 15 seconds of strength. Here we go. Steve's got a trunk full of groceries and no one to help him.
- [39:49]
C
Oh, that's tough.
- [39:50]
B
Jim Looks like a five trip load at least. He grabs the first bag the second Bob. It looks like he's trying to do.
- [39:56]
A
It on one trip.
- [39:57]
B
He shimmies the door open, steps over the dog. Oh, and he stumbles. Oh, right into the kitchen without missing a beat. Jim. Now that's a man who eats his protein packed Oikos. With 15 grams of complete protein in each cup, Oikos Triple Zero can help build strength for every day. Oikos stronger makes everything better.
- [40:14]
D
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- [42:09]
C
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- [43:51]
D
I I want to go to Baker Mayfield I thought you had an interesting Somebody once in the last year asked Baker Mayfield about me and blah blah blah and he said well we're frenemies and I think Baker knows I like him and respect him and he's always been nice to me. He said nice things publicly. You had a take the other day that he's actually he was over discussed when he was in Cleveland. He's now under discussed. Yeah and it's funny because I think Baker's better than Dak, he's better than Tua, he's better than Gino, he's better than Aaron, he's better than Russell he's better than Cousins. I think he and Darnold are very similar, that they can be mistake prone but they can plan it and they're, they're real players.
- [44:26]
A
Last year he's been really good.
- [44:28]
C
Go ahead.
- [44:29]
D
Yeah, no, Baker is a prime example. You see this a lot in the NBA where a guy comes in and just needs the mature. Aunt Edwards. In the NFL generally, maturity is not the issue. It's. You either have it or you don't. Baker was the rare. A lot of testosterone, lot of confidence and I felt like, can somebody turn the governor down just a little? He was Johnny Manziel, but more likable and with actual talent. He had. He could really throw a football. But I think Baker is the rare NFL player and quarterback. You're like one of the talents inarguable. He's just got to turn the governor down. Cleveland was not built for Baker. You go to a great gm, a talented roster in Tampa, which is by the way, below the radar. It's in the NFC south, which is a low profile division. Baker now is absolutely under discussed. He is a really good NFL quarterback. I don't think that's disputable.
- [45:25]
A
Yeah, I think it's hard to make a top 10 and not include him. And then when you add to the fact that he makes around 60% of what the other guys in that top 10 make, his value is massive. He. For a guy who dealt with injuries during. In his time in Cleveland, he's incredibly durable. His teammates love him and he now has back to back years of really high productivity. A playoff quarterback win the division again, 40 touchdowns last year. I. And so yeah, I think that there was. Because he was talked about so much when he wasn't yet that good. I think people got. I don't know if numb's the right word, but they were just kind of got over him. And now that he is, I think really good, people are just like, okay, yeah, that's Baker. Like he's the people I think boxed him in. He's a good story and that is true. But he's more than that at this point. At this point, like, do I. This is, you know, a third rail for some. Do I think he's better than Brock Purdy? I do. Would I rather have like. And so you, you said Dak Prescott. I think that's close. I think that there is. There are a lot of quarterbacks that like, I'll give you a great example now. This guy's young and we'll see, but he makes a lot of money. I think he's pretty clearly better than Jordan Love, and I think that Jordan Love is discussed like he is. You know what I mean? This.
- [47:09]
D
I have, I have to. It's interesting. So I was really not anti Jordan Love, but I, but I said for two years there is more footage of Bigfoot than Jordan Love. They're hiding him for a reason. Then he came out and he was kind of sensational, and I really bought into him. And then it's as if the league defensive coordinators got all this footage and they found holes. And at the end of last year, you're like, oh, people have caught on to him. This is now, it would be a sophomore slump for anybody else, but he was like in his fourth year.
- [47:41]
A
Yeah.
- [47:42]
D
And so I want to see him. So now it's like an NBA playoff series. Like, you get worked, then you change things and there's stages and coaching, you know, adaptations to a playoff series.
- [47:56]
A
Yep.
- [47:57]
D
Yeah. So now I've seen Jordan shock the league. Now I've seen people react and he, he struggles. Now I want to see his next hand with Matt Leflore. That's why they drafted to me a receiver in the first round, because they're like, listen, we, he may need a little more help than we think here, but I, I. So I'm not sure Baker's better. I think Jordan's got a hell of a whip and he's a really good at. But he's. He's one of the last quarterbacks in this league. Jordan Love. I'm not sure I know who's bad. I know who's good. I know who's pretty good. Jordan Love is the last. I'm not really sure what he is in the league.
- [48:32]
A
To me, I, I'm going to throw another guy that I'm, I think this guy's really good, but I'm going to put the not sure. And that's CJ. I think that. I think CJ's really good.
- [48:45]
D
So do I.
- [48:46]
A
It is. There are some. I think it is hard in the modern NFL to be really good. If you hate running, you don't. You know what I mean? And, and now, like, I'm sure cj, especially because he's black quarterback, like, was probably, you know, felt pressure, like, to prove to everyone like, I'm, I'm not. You know what I mean? I'm not a running back with the. That also play in the position. I'm a true prototypical pocket passer. The problem with that is that position, it's not extinct. But it is on the. Just the Matt Stafford, Jared Goff, Joe Burrow style is. It's just a hard way to make a living. And it doesn't mean you have to be, you know, one read and then take off and run. But it's a nice pitch to have, particularly come the playoffs. Well, and I thought C.J. in the playoffs last year actually went to it a little more. And so that was a good sign. But I just want to see a little more from him. But yeah, I think in general, we usually know who these guys are. And then there are guys who, like, this is the thing that I would say about guys like Darnold or Gino. I don't think Darnold's a weird one for you because you always saw this really good player. But I think people that said like those guys were not good potentially were correct. And then those guys, through hard work and maturation and learning and getting older, got good. Like, I, you know what I. And so like the. I think that a guy like Gino, I think Geno was probably rightfully up, you know, lower tier backup early and then worked his ass off, got better, learned more and became this player. But yeah, I think most of the quarterbacks we know, we know about who they are. The one one, I'll throw another one at you. That to me is the most confusing or most intriguing and that's Herbert, because Herbert, there is no, there is no question how talented he is. But five years into your career, you need more than just he throws an amazing ball. And there's not a lot of quarterbacks who five years into their. Who ended up being amazing, who five years into their career hadn't accomplished anything. And he's on that list.
- [51:26]
D
Yeah, no, he is. First two head coaches, though, Dean Spanos, until Harbaugh never paid money for a coach, so his first two coaches were a miss. So I do think he. He's a rare. Circumstantially, I think he's a rare. I think the people in the league that I know all love him. He was also the Justin Herbert criticism is fair. He was mechanical. On film, people thought he was mechanical. Tom Tesco, who drafted him, said, we thought he was mechanical. Then I went and watched him in person and I saw him play the best Iowa, best Wisconsin defense of all time and went, oh, okay, he's not that mechanical. But he can be sort of a rhythm quarterback where when he gets out of rhythm. You know, I've said this about certain players are like, the Pacers are a rhythm offense Halliburton leaves for four and a half minutes. They can't get the rhythm back. Like it's like, oh, it just doesn't work. Like Herbert's a rhythm thrower. Like he gets into a rhythm and if you bang him or he gets sacked or a receiver drops it, he can get out of rhythm. A lot of quarterbacks aren't. They just pick it up. They go. So I think the criticism of Herbert are fair, but he's 6 5, a 42 biology major with a huge arm.
- [52:36]
A
He's super smart, he's super athletic. He could run more. He did a little more under har ball. Like he. He in college. He ran the hell out of the ball when they needed to. Here would be kind of a concern I have. That is really just a kernel of a belief I have about sports, which is particularly for the most scrutinized positions. So best player on an NBA team, quarterback on a football team. The randomness of your first couple times in a big spot casts the longest shadow imaginable over your career. And so I'll use a basketball example, then a couple football examples. The fact that Kobe as a teenager basically was a champion and that, listen, Kobe was unbelievable on the second two championships with Shaq, but that first championship was Shaq. He was a role player and it was peak Shaquille o'. Neal, but before he can, is old enough to drink, he's a champion. No one is ever going to be able to be like, can he? Can you win a ring with Kobe Bryant? And that gave him, in my opinion, the freedom to be like, I'll take every fucking in the game shot. No one can ever say anything bad about me. Right. And so it had a real impact. I do think. I think Tom Brady is one of the greatest athletes of all time and obviously has the greatest resume of any quarterback ever. I also wonder if they simply hadn't. You know, I won't even do the. The talk rule game. If in that first super bowl.
- [54:34]
D
Misses the free throws. Yeah.
- [54:36]
A
Misses the field goal or he makes one bad read or whatever it is and they don't win there, then does he have like the freedom to be him in those moments moving forward? I think that. I think. I think there is a chance that we are talking about Russell Wilson the way we talk about Terry Bradshaw if he doesn't throw the Malcolm Butler pick. Because I think if they would have won that super bowl and he really believed, like I'm ordained by God to do this, that it then led to itself and then go Ahead.
- [55:14]
D
Well, no, no. And, and by losing that super bowl and throwing that pick, it eroded the chemistry in the locker room and it was never the same off one play.
- [55:22]
A
And I think it eroded for him. This feeling of this is meant to be the flip side to those to, to Brady or to Kobe. Example is Peyton. So Peyton early in his career came up short in a couple big spots and then it just, the weight got bigger and bigger and he got that moniker even though he's as talented as any football player I've ever seen. So the reason I bring that up is I, I worry that for Herbert, he is going to walk into his next playoff game with the weight of the world on his shoulders. He's going to be like, I've been here. I basically played two real and one de facto playoff game. The de facto was the week 18 Chargers Raiders, remember that were like a tie. You both go to the playoffs and the Raiders steal it at the end. We blew a four score lead to the Jags and I threw four picks in my other playoff game. And it just, it is so, it's so fleeting what that you know what those can be. And so that is to me like. Well, a real. And something I'm excited to see moving because you, you've seen how it's worn on Lamar and you see the freedom Mahomes plays with Mom's like nobody can ever call me anything but. But clutch. And he can play like that.
- [56:58]
D
Well, Lamar now is feeling the pressure. You can see Lamar in playoff games this tight it. I think eventually the failures of the Chargers and the Spanos family to get the right coach got them to pay $15 million a year for Harbaugh. So he has his kingmaker. And I also think it takes. This is something that people don't really understand this. I think we tend men, at least in America, tend to worship other men and we just forget that Michael Jordan for years didn't do shit without Pippen. And at the end it was pathetic in Washington, but it's six for six and he's the greatest ever. And he failed at baseball. And Michael got Phil Jackson and Scottie Pippen and everything changed. He was just kind of a ball hog who couldn't get past Boston, he couldn't get past Detroit. It didn't get along with a lot of teammates early in Chicago or late in Washington. And even when he was with the Bulls, he was hard. In the documentary, Tom Cruise is a great example. So Tom Cruise goes in a high school play and a year later he's in the movies. And not long after that, he's in Risky Business. And that really defines him. I mean, Ray Ban sales exploded from the underwear scene in Risky Business. So Tom had absolute talent. But if you go back and look at Tom Cruise, who is as driven, willful, and obsessed about movies as anybody, it wasn't until his last five to six movies where he finally came to terms with, I'm just going to run a lot and do action movies. And they all hit. And his last five to six movies have been massive hits. He did Rock of Ages, Eyes Wide Shut, Vanilla sky, who some people really like. I've never seen it. He had lots of misses. Marlon Brando had lots of misses. So think how long it took for finally, finally a Bradley Cooper to find the right director or Tom Cruise to find the right vehicle. He was always talented, but like Herbert, he needs his Harbaugh. And that's what I think we tend to forget is that Michael Jordan had Doug Collins and Stan Ulbricht, but no Scottie Pippen. He couldn't win a playoff series, none of them. So you just, you just need so much help. And that's, you know, when anybody will ever ask me, you know, about, oh, gosh, how do you think you've done it for 30 years and you've been doing this? And I say, I've had great help. I've had really good bosses. I've had a couple stinkers, but overwhelmingly, I've had really good support and really good agents and really good bosses. I would have been somewhat successful. But the point being is if you find a great stockbroker or, I mean, Obama, he has somewhere he's got a kingmaker behind him, somebody behind him, believed in him. And we just forget that in sports and that Mahomes would have been successful, but Brett Veach and Andy Reid are a big part.
- [60:01]
A
Well, yeah. And that. It's also one of the reasons that I find the. I find it really fun, but also frustrating at times when we trying to parse individual credit for team sports. Success is one of the most fun things about our business. And it's also why a guy you and I see similarly, but he's, you know, one of the more polarizing, if you will, quarterbacks is so interesting in Birdie because there is. It's so much of, all right, who is it? Are we, you know, like, I argue with Wilds about it. Wilds, basically his take is that I believe when the Niners win, Shanahan won and when they lose, Purdy lost, like, is, you know, that the Shanahan gets the credit and doesn't get the blame. And my, my actual take is that I think that there is. There are a lot of factors that have gone into why a quarterback who everyone in the league, including the Niners, thought was not that good has had statistically one of the three or four greatest starts to a career in the history of the sport. I understand there are misses. I get it. I know Brady went 199. I understand all that. But I. When people with Purdy, people will say you would feel differently if he were the number one pick. And my answer is yes, of course.
- [61:40]
D
Of course he'd be a better player.
- [61:42]
A
Right? That's right. Because that's, that's. You would. The draft. It's not random. Like, if you were the number one pick, he wouldn't be undersized. He would have a slightly stronger arm.
- [61:53]
D
That's right.
- [61:53]
A
He was like, there's real things to it.
- [61:56]
D
Tony Romo was undrafted when Bill Parcells found him. So the first four to five years of Tony Romo's roster was great. They didn't pay him anything. He was free the minute they started paying Tony Romo. The offensive line wasn't as good and Tony Romo couldn't win big games, even though Tony Romo is a really good B plus, A minus quarterback. But Tony Romo was free. Kurt Warner early in his career, who I think is great, undervalued historically, you know, came into the league. He was free. There's no question that Brock Purdy's lineup was stacked, well stacked.
- [62:26]
A
And listen, we don't. We've done the Purdy thing before. What is so frustrating to me about the Purdy thing is, and maybe this is why it's an argument I can't get over is. And I, and I'm going to make this point, you know, till the end of my career, as long as this is relevant. Four years, folks argued about Jimmy Garoppolo. Is he just a winner? Is he underrated? You know, is, you know, was. Did he make Brady nervous because he was breathing down his neck? And then there were folks like me who was like, ah, I actually think he's pretty mediocre. And they'd be like, no, that team was terrible. And then he got there. They went to an AFC championship game, they went to a Super Bowl. And I, I kept saying, yeah, I really think 25 quarterbacks in the league, if you gave them the defense the Niners had, then that head coach, those weapons, they would be incredibly successful. And it's like, well, that's a hypothetical. We'll never know. And then they literally replaced him with the last pick of the draft, had the exact same level of success. And those same people, instead of being like, maybe you're right, they're like, that new guy, he's fucking awesome too. And I'm like, you gotta be kidding me. I'm like, they literally did it. They didn't replace it with a first round pick. They replaced him with the last pick of the draft. And guess what they did. They went to an NFC championship game like they did with Jimmy. They then went to a Super bowl like they did with Jimmy. They lost the super bowl to literally the same team in very similar fashion. And you're like, turns out they're both awesome. And then I'm like, hey, by the way, how's Garoppolo look now that he's gone? They're like, oh, well, you know, injuries, I guess. I'm like, or maybe he's like, I think Purdy's obviously better than Garoppolo, but like, Garoppolo was a, is a below average quarterback who looked quite good. I think Purdy's an average quarterback who looks great in the exact same system. And by the way, Jimmy Garoppolo never had Christian McCaffrey. And I'm, I just feel myself going crazy on it. And then they paid him $53 million, so what do I know.
- [64:45]
D
The volume a wingman flies close with unwavering dedication At Folds of Honor, a wingman stands with families of Americans, fallen or disabled heroes. The burial flag given to their grieving family is folded 13 times. As a wingman, your $13 monthly donation provides scholarships to their spouses and children. 13Folds $13 Become a Wingman Join today at Folds of Honor.org this message brought to you by the official whiskey of the Colin Coward Podcast. Green River Whiskey Green River Whiskey is the 10th oldest distillery in Kentucky and was once the most expensive Whiskey purchased when 20 barrels were traded for shares in a gold mine. From single barrel bourbons to straight rye, Green River's the perfect combo of rich flavor and richer history. Visit greenriverwhisky.com to discover a legend in a bottle. A product of Green River Distilling Company, Owensboro, Kentucky. Alcohol by volume varies by product. Greenriverwhiskey.com, please drink responsibly. Home emergencies wait for no one. And you shouldn't either. Whether it's plumbing, electric, heating or cooling, HomeServe has you covered. Get a plan from HomeServe for peace of mind starting at 5 bucks a month. That's it@homeserve.com Find out how to save on repairs@homeserve.com HomeServe a subscription for peace of mind not available everywhere. Most plans range between 399to $11.99 a month. Your First Year Terms apply on covered repairs. Summer is here and you can now get almost anything you need for your sunny days delivered with Uber Eats. Now what do we mean by almost? Well, you can't get a well groomed lawn delivered, but you can get chicken parm delivered. A nice tan? Sorry, a box fan? Happily, yes. A day of sunshine? No. A box of fine wines? Yes. Uber Eats can definitely get you that. Get almost almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol in select markets. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details.
- [66:57]
A
This is an iHeart podcast.