The Herd with Colin Cowherd

Episode: Colin Cowherd & Landon Donovan react to World Cup Draw: How Far Will Messi & Ronaldo Advance?

Date: December 13, 2025
Guests: Colin Cowherd (Host), Landon Donovan (USMNT legend)

Overview

In this episode, Colin Cowherd is joined by U.S. soccer icon Landon Donovan to break down the 2025 World Cup draw, focusing on powerhouse teams such as Argentina (with Messi), Portugal (with Ronaldo), and England. Together they analyze the unique team dynamics, the pressure on global superstars, and the electric atmosphere of a World Cup set in North America. The conversation is packed with anecdotes, lively opinions, and reflections on the global culture of soccer.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Messi and Argentina: Chasing Back-to-Back Glory

• Main Topic: Can Argentina defend their World Cup title with an aging Messi as centerpiece?
• Cowherd frames the challenge: "Nobody has won back to back World cup since, I believe, Brazil 58 to 62, a different world." (00:36)
• Donovan explains Argentina's transition from total Messi-dependence:
  • "They are very good with him, and they're also very good without him. And that's a really unique quality." (01:24)
• The challenge for head coach Scaloni: manage Messi's minutes, given age (39), tournament travel, and heat.
  • Donovan's perspective: "You can't play every minute of every game. He just can't. Maybe he'll prove me wrong...but I don't think they're going to get the best out of him or Argentina if he plays every minute." (01:44)
  • Anticipation of open, honest pre-tournament conversations with Messi about role and usage.

Ronaldo and Portugal: A Last Hurrah

• Main Topic: How formidable is Portugal with Cristiano Ronaldo, and can they manage his "ego and minutes" for success?
• Cowherd asks if Portugal has a shot: "Cristiano's last World Cup. The only thing he is missing from his career is the World cup, which was the only thing Messi was missing." (02:21)
• Donovan balances optimism with realism:
  • "They are more than just Ronaldo now...very well coached by Roberto Martinez...Now, do I think they will? No." (02:55)
  • Key point: The team knows how to win gritty, not just pretty.
• The Ronaldo management dilemma:
  • "You think Messi has a little bit of an ego. Cristiano is totally next level. So can you have Roberto Martinez, that conversation with him and say, look, we don't want you playing every game..." (03:22)
  • Suggests resting Ronaldo, especially in easier group games, to save him for knockouts.

England: Pressure, Perception, and Popularity

• Main Topic: England’s perennial hype versus mental fragility and the unique challenge posed by high expectations and media scrutiny.
• Cowherd says: "I think they tend to be a bit overrated, a little overvalued. You're nodding appropriately, but it's the British and the austere way of the Brits. I mean, it's a roster that certainly doesn't lack talent." (03:52)
• Donovan offers a direct comparison:
  • "People who don't really know the NFL might think Dallas Cowboy players are better than they are because they're on TV every week...So you think they're better than they are." (04:46)
  • Discusses fragility under pressure: "You talk about a team that can unravel fast. I mean, the English press are brutal, tabloid, rumor driven."
  • Insight into locker room psychology:
    • "When things are going poorly in a game, they're thinking in their head, oh, my God, what is the press going to write about this? You can see it happening in their head." (05:41)
• On the strength of international support for England and other "diaspora" nations in North America:
  • "That's the beauty of having a World cup in America...If Jamaica make the World cup and they play a game in or near Miami or Haiti, Haiti's playing a game in Atlanta. There's going to be a lot of Haitians there, right?" (06:07)
  • Special nod to the unique passion of Scottish fans: "Listening to Flower of Scotland, the national anthem live, is a memory I will never forget in my life. 30,000 Scots belting it out. They are a team that will bring the party." (06:49)

The World Cup Experience: A Life-Changing Event

• Main Topic: Why attending a World Cup match—any match—is a must.
• Cowherd reflects: "If you could go to one sporting event, what would it be? And I've always said men's or women's, go to a World cup match..." (07:03)
• Donovan underscores the privilege of playing for the USMNT, reminiscing about memorable venues and Caribbean qualifiers:
  • "There are soccer meccas, right?...But the benefit of playing for the US is we used to play a lot of Caribbean countries...You're on the beach and the rum and all the things. And so you get to go to these amazing places. You're sitting on a beachfront hotel and you kind of looking at yourself like, this is my job. This is a joke, right? It's phenomenal." (08:09)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Messi’s Role:

  "They are very good with him, and they're also very good without him. And that's a really unique quality."
  — Landon Donovan (01:24)

• On Ronaldo’s Ego and Role:

  "You think Messi has a little bit of an ego. Cristiano is totally next level."
  — Landon Donovan (03:22)

• On England’s Pressure:

  "You talk about a team that can unravel fast. I mean, the English press are brutal, tabloid, rumor driven."
  — Landon Donovan (05:14)

• On the World Cup in North America:

  "That's the beauty of having a World cup in America...you could say that about probably 15 nations."
  — Landon Donovan (06:07)

• The Wonder of Playing:

  "You're sitting on a beachfront hotel and you kind of looking at yourself like, this is my job. This is a joke, right? It's phenomenal."
  — Landon Donovan (08:37)

Important Timestamps

• 00:36 — The challenge of defending champions and aging Messi
• 01:20–02:21 — Messi, Scaloni, and Argentina’s tactical evolution
• 02:53–03:52 — Portugal’s shot at the title and managing Ronaldo’s minutes
• 03:52–06:07 — England’s perennial hype and pressure from media and fans
• 06:07–07:03 — World Cup atmosphere in North America and unforgettable fan experiences
• 07:03–08:09 — Colin & Landon discuss bucket-list World Cup matches and travel wisdom
• 08:09–08:51 — Donovan reflects on his favorite places to play

Tone and Final Thoughts

The conversation is respectful, insightful, and often playful—mixing deep tactical knowledge with personal stories. Landon Donovan offers an insider’s look at what makes World Cup soccer magical, while Colin Cowherd revels in his “homer” passion for the U.S. team and the global game.

Colin Cowherd: "I'm paid to know American sports, but I am an...abject homer. I have no problem saying it. I care more about [the USMNT] than anybody else." (08:51)

Final Word:
If you want savvy analysis on Messi, Ronaldo, and the World Cup favorites, along with infectious passion for soccer’s global culture and community, this episode is a must-listen.