← The Herd with Colin Cowherd
The Herd with Colin Cowherd
Colin Cowherd Podcast - Dr. J Talks “Soul Power” Documentary, Drew Dalman Retires From Bears
00:56:30
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Julius Erving
This is an I Heart podcast.
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Podcast Announcer
Guaranteed human
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Podcast Host
Today's podcast brought to you by Ferguson Home where it all comes together Whether you're a homeowner creating your dream space or a pro managing multiple projects, Ferguson Home is where you'll find top products by brands like LG. Visit your local showroom or visit FergusonHome.com
- [01:23]
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Podcast Host
show is brought to you by our presenting sponsor, American Beverage. If you think about some of the most iconic drinks in the country, the ones you grab at a barbecue, the ones you raise to celebrate your team, that have been part of your story for decades, Coke, Dr. Pepper, Pepsi, there's something people don't always think about. The companies behind those brands are still making their drinks right here in the US While there's a lot of talk about bringing manufacturing back, America's beverage companies never left. They're American companies making American products with American workers in America's hometown. So 275,000 men and women across all 50 states. Real jobs, good paying jobs. The kind of jobs you can raise a family on. So more than 100 years, those brands have been part of everyday lives and they're still here, still investing, still operating in communities around the country. So if you care about strong local economies and companies that walk the walk, check out the good work and what they're doing@wedeliverica.org. Well, like the rest of you, I love a good sports documentary. And when I heard there was a doc on Amazon prime about the ABA for many reasons, I was fascinated. It's called Soul Power, the Legends of the aba. So I've said many times on my show the Herd, 10 times, 15 times. The first basketball player I fell in love with was Julius Irving. But I was born in 1964 as Julius now joins us. And I didn't watch sports until 1972. I remember it clearly on a black and white TV. Julius. I watched the Miami Dolphins at the time, Washington Redskins, super bowl, dolphins won 14, seven. It was about that time. I'm six years old, seven years old, I'm getting into sports. So my mom bought me a subscription to Sports Illustrated so I could watch. Baseball was the national pastime on tv. College football, college basketball was big. But like anything else in life, the one thing I couldn't get was the aba. So I had to rely on the Sporting News, which actually did ABA guides and Sports Illustrated twice. Put you on the COVID I remember this. So I'm in my formative years and I'm like, who's Dr. J? Nobody's called Dr. J. So because I didn't get. You didn't have a TV contract because I didn't get ABA games as a Seattle kid, my parents bought me an ABA ball. So it's fascinating to me. So let's go back. And I've always felt that the NBA should include ABA numbers and stats. And the reason I do is something I think you'll believe in that. I didn't know this about the aba, Julius. I knew about the Nuggets and the Spurs. I knew about you. I knew about how many good players there were. I did not know much about the exhibition games with the NBA in which the ABA teams clobbered them regularly. So let, let, so let's, let's talk. Let's, let's start with that. The NBA in the 70s was considered a little white and overcoached and the ABA was more stylistic, it was more fun, it was more fashionable, it was a little rowdy. When you matched up against those NBA teams, was there a chip on you, I know your league's shoulder facing like the adult, the parent league that you knew in many instances you were superior to?
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Julius Erving
Yeah, I played in two of those games and ABA versus NBA. And the excitement surrounding it was unbelievable because it was just the exhibition season and you know, we had training camp, play exhibition games and then play the regular season. So everyone always looked forward to the regular season and the playoffs and that was the big deal. But these exhibition games against the NBA, you know, became a big deal more so for the ABA than the NBA, because the ABA was the league that was trying to establish itself, also trying to prove it itself worthy and you know, wanted to have some bragging rights. So, so you beat an NBA team, they're going to make excuses. They're going to say, well, our guys aren't in shape, it's only a practice game or whatever. But you know, the ABA guys who were probably younger and more excitable, kind of like young NBA players are now, you know, looking forward to having the chip on their shoulder and all of that good stuff. So winning those games, especially if you're playing on your home court because the city that you're in, you know, would always stick their chest out a little bit and say, hey, yeah, you know, we knocked those guys off and you know, the league's been around longer and you know, those names are known. People know Oscar Robinson's name, Clyde Frazier, Wilt Chamberlain, you know, Wes Onsell. They know those guys names and you know, we took them down. Those are the same guys, you know, what guys, if they cut, they bleed just like we do. If they get elbows, they bend over, they act like they're hurt just like we do or whatever. So, you know, we're all human beings. And because you Wear a title and you're. You're. You wear a moniker or whatever, that's not going to make you different. That's going to necessarily make you greater. So. So it was a good confidence booster for us. And, you know, a lot of people who went to those games alive became believers. And also, you know, that served to feed the cause. And the cause was, you know, we had seen the AFL and the NFL, you know, that's right. Someone league. So we had witnessed that. And globally, this same type of thing was happening. It was happening in soccer, and it was happening in other sports that are played universally, not necessarily in the United States. So. So that became a mission for the ownership, the players. You know, my opinion was I came out of school after my junior year, I played two varsity seasons, and our team had been invited to the nit, even though I reckon was good enough to be invited to the NCAA tournament. We weren't and felt like we were snubbed. And after that, after my junior year, I got approached by an agent, and the numbers that they started talking about, you know, were comparable to the best players in the NBA. And they were saying, this is going to go away. I mean, if the league folds, it's going to go away. And if the NBA continues to, you know, maybe put you out of business or, you know, maintains a superiority complex, then those numbers are going to go away. And, you know, 100,000 is going to turn into 25, 30,000 or whatever. So, you know, I took the deal. I took the deal. It cost me a lot because I was. I had to forego being an Olympian, and I had played in the Olympic Development Program and, you know, at my size and with my game, I was leading scorer and rebounder in the Olympic Development Program. We went over to Russia, Poland and Finland, played, and, you know, I was a shoe to make the team. But that era, representing your country and playing for the United States of America in 1970, 71, 72, was not the most popular thing to do. It's not like we were just dying to do it. So I chose. I chose the pro road, pro route. And at that time, you know, this is 20 years before pros were allowed to play in the Olympics, so you had to be an amateur to play. And, you know, sorry about, you know, getting off this subject, but I'm just kind of. This fail space is very, very important in terms of the ABA story and the aba.
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Podcast Host
Yeah.
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Julius Erving
Docuseries, because there's so much to it beyond just basketball. You know, there's the culture, you know, that we have. There's the racial tension, you know, that was evident. And then there's, you know, just the global situation where, you know, we're still learning things. And there are a lot of things that have gone on for hundreds of years that haven't been fixed yet. So who's going to fix this? Who's going to fix this? So basketball couldn't be the most important thing for me in my life, but it was, it was, it was the path that I needed to take.
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Podcast Host
Yeah, yeah. What's interesting, because I grew up in the 70s, you know, the NBA was not a rich league in the 70s. In fact, I can remember the NBA Finals being on tape delay after the 11 o' clock news. Yeah. Young fans now that can watch every game, every night. So I remember NBA teams at that time. Julius traveled on commercial first flight out of town, out of Seattle. They traveled. So what was, that's right. So what was travel like? Hotels travel in the aba, which was financially in a tougher spot than even the NBA in the early 70s.
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Julius Erving
Yeah. You know, we didn't have the top notch hotels. We had what was available to us. We had roommates. You know, everybody had to pick a roommate. So no single rooms. I didn't, I didn't experience a single room until I got in the NBA and I was in Philadelphia and I didn't want a single room. Actually, Steve Mix was my, my roommate for five seasons. That was my boy and I learned a lot from him and he learned a lot from me. So, yeah, the accommodation piece, I don't know, you know, if your college team, you know, was in the Big Ten or maybe, you know, out there in the Pac 12 or whatever, you know, maybe the travel was a little better, maybe the hotel accommodations were a little better, you know, but you know, I played in with the Minutemen, formerly the UMass Redmond, and we were in the Yankee Conference. Right. So I travel, I travel with us a lot by bus. I mean we, we bust over to Buffalo, we bust down to Penn, Pennsylvania to play Penn. And then all throughout New England, we played Vermont, Maine, New Hampshire, you know, all of those schools and you were built for it. And we took buses. So. So the move to the ABA was actually a step up in terms of travel and in terms of hotel accommodation.
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Podcast Host
So I'm from Seattle. So another player who was groundbreaking was Spencer Haywood. So I, Yeah, so, you know, I grew up not only with a downtown Freddie Brown, dj, Gus Williams, Jack Sigma Sonics, I grew up with Spencer Haywood, John Brisker, the young teams. And I tell people this because for young fans, the aba, this is why I supported the live tour to the pga. My takeaway is, folks, watch what Lyft and Uber did to taxis. You need disruptors in society and the ABA was really the, one of the first disruptors in sports in this country. And when, I mean, you were a nine time All Star, five in the NBA, four in the ABA. You were a three time, you were a four time NBA, 16 time All Star. So you were six.
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Julius Erving
I was an all star every season. But in terms of all, probably that was five in the NBA and four first team in the NBA. I already played there five years, so I was second team the other year.
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Podcast Host
So in the history of American basketball, professional basketball, there's a real argument that the most unrewarded, overlooked player is you. That you were, you spent probably 40% of your best days. You know, you're in your athletic prime in the aba. Have you ever thought, I mean, do you regret that decision? Have you ever thought, man, because the Olympics back in 72 wasn't what they are now. We watched for gymnastics, we watched for a lot of things. The Dream Team kind of made Olympic basketball a showcase. But when I look at you, I think of all the great players, you probably have been overlooked more than any great player. Because I remember in the 70s turning on the TV, I grew up in the Pacific Northwest and watching you against the Blazers and thinking, what am I watching? Have you ever thought about that? Have you ever had regrets about your journey?
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Julius Erving
It's an excellent question. And I kind of stand on the ground that the journey that I took, the path that I took, made me who I am today. You know, never one to ego trip and feel like I deserve more than I received. I'm more sensitive to the guys who get no recognition. I at least get some recognition. I was on eight covers of Sports Illustrated and multiple colors of Sport magazine and you know, participated in a lot of charitable endeavors which led to endorsements.
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Podcast Host
Yeah, shoe deal. Converse.
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Julius Erving
Yeah, yeah, my shoe deal with Converse and Spalding and you know, my invitation to become a Coca Cola bottler with Bruce Llewellyn. And so, so there were things that happened. I've had a good life. I've had, had a very, very good life. And could it be better? I don't know. It could be different. It could be different. But my empathy goes to the guys who are passed on don't have the recognition their families, they don't have the financial support of pensions and gifting. So there's things that are more important than my ego. And. And I think that my statistics can be matched with anybody's. I mean, you know, they're the guys who came after me and played better in the NBA than they played in the aba. And my stats in the ABA were probably a little better than the NBA, but I was playing with a different team. I played my whole career with the Philadelphia 76ers. The first day I got there, the general manager came in and said, look, we got George McGinnis here, we got Doug Collins, so we don't need you to score 30 points a game. And I've never experienced that where I've gone. And the coaches told me to tone it down, or general manager has said tone it down. And so there were bursts in which the Dr. J of the ABA came out. But most of the time it was, as you had said about the NBA, you know, to slow down. Structure.
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Podcast Host
Structure.
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Julius Erving
Playing. Playing a certain type of game. So I was encouraged to play that type of game. Although inside of me, you know, there was always that ability to do more. And who asked. Who asked an athlete to do less? Nobody. It's kind of crazy.
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Podcast Host
Well, it's interesting because so much of your journey is fascinating. And the aforementioned Philadelphia 76ers is one of the first teams I loved. And they had Steve Mix, ABA, you, ABA. George McGinnis, ABA. Bobby Jones, ABA. It was an ABA all star team. Caldwell Jones.
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Julius Erving
Yeah.
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Podcast Host
So essentially, that 76ers team was an ABA team winning the NBA Finals, was it not?
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Julius Erving
Absolutely. Going and losing to Portland and winning ultimately in 83 against the Lakers. We had much ABA representation there.
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Podcast Host
Yep.
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Julius Erving
And plus, you know, the guys who didn't get the ABA experience, I always, you know, taught them things that I brought over from the aba, you know, And I used to tell Andrew, Tony, I'd say, you know, George Gervin came in my second year in Virginia and practice was over and he. He wanted to go home. And I was like, gee, we got work to do. You ever hear overtime? So we would stay in the gym, and it was at this Jewish community center. We would stay in the gym and we'd play one on one and, you know, maybe put in the extra hour, extra hour and a half and go home exhausted. And when Andrew Toney came in, it was the same thing with him. I said, look, you know, you're gonna be my new Iceman Gervin. Cause you're really good. And I could use the work myself. So, you know, I would keep him afterwards. And that was something that Ray Scott showed me in the ABA about, you know, staying after putting in the extra time and you know, really the other things about taking care of yourself and then the other things about just some fundamental things that you need to do during the course of the game. You don't have to always jump as high as you possibly can. And you see it in today's game where guys, they step back and shoot set shots. Yeah, whatever. So, so the jump shot, you know, is a little bit overstated because you know, the true jump shot where you go to your pinnacle in your peak and then you let it go. You don't have to do that. It actually takes more energy and, and it's, it's actually a risk reward shot because you probably, if you probably will shoot less of a percentage from shooting that way as opposed to stepping back and shooting such.
- [22:00]
Podcast Host
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- [24:04]
Podcast Host
Good.
- [24:05]
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- [24:30]
Podcast Host
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- [26:07]
Podcast Host
All right, two truths and a lie. Here we go. I went to college with college football coach Jim McElwaine. I began my broadcasting career doing play by play for the Las Vegas Stars. And I've been a Verizon customer for 15 years. Okay, I lied. All three are true. Verizon isn't as expensive as you think. In fact, if you bring in your ATT or T Mobile bill to a Verizon store, they'll give you a better deal. That's right, a better deal on the best network with the most ways to save on plans, streaming and phone deals. So take that AT and T or T Mobile. Build to your local Verizon store today, get a better deal and start saving based on root metrics. Best overall Mobile Network Performance US Second Half 2025 all rights reserve must provide recent consumer mobile bill in the name of the person redeeming the deal. Additional terms, conditions and restrictions apply. Yeah, I mean, I, I could certainly make the argument that you came into the NBA at the perfect time, that they needed a face. It was not a three ball league. You were. There was no dominant team. So the league was wide open for Julius Irving. And you know this. It's the duality of life. You could look at it and go, man, I wish I was in the NBA. But the truth is it was overcoached. It didn't have a great TV contract. And there was so much mystery around you. By the time you entered the NBA, you were a star. The first day in the NBA. I remember it. I mean, I, I remember the news stories about the merger. Did you know the merger was coming or did you get a phone call?
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Julius Erving
Well, when I was negotiating my contract three years earlier, two years earlier, the agent kept saying that, you know, there would be a merger between the two leagues. So that was, that was in 1971 when I signed with the potato squad. So it was five years before the merger. They said in two or three years it would happen. Two, two. Two years came, three years came and it didn't happen.
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Podcast Host
Right?
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Julius Erving
It didn't happen. It happened in year five. And I was a part of the conversation, you know, with the players association. I was involved. And then we had our owner's group and those conversations went back and forth and they were very intense. And it didn't look like there was going to be a merger. And then the ownership of the Nets, which was Roy Bow, and the ownership of the Denver Nuggets, which was Carl Shear, I believe they applied for membership into the NBA. So this comes out in our docu series. This comes out and they were just like, screw everybody else. We're going to get our franchises then because the NBA is into expansion and they're much better at expanding one or two teams in a year rather than the whole kit and caboodle. And all hell broke loose because we said, well, what about the other teams and what about the jobs and what about the pensions and so on? And so what's going to happen? I mean, it was. It was really a scary time. And we went back to the drawing board, and as it turned out, two teams did not make it in. Five teams did.
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Podcast Host
Yep.
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Julius Erving
And so it was the other way around.
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Podcast Host
And the good and the teams that made it, Denver, San Antonio were very good immediately. Denver won their division, if I recall. Yeah, they did.
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Julius Erving
Yeah, they did. They did. Nets were good. Denver was good. San Antonio, yeah, was good. And Indiana.
- [29:55]
Podcast Host
That's right.
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Julius Erving
Indiana was good.
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Podcast Host
George McGinnis.
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Julius Erving
Yeah. Well, he had gone to Denver by then because he was with the Sixers. He started in Indiana and he was part of the championship teams that they had in Indiana and the aba. Then he. He came to the Sixers the year before me. And then two years after he got to Philadelphia, he got traded to Denver for Bobby Jones. That's how I became teammates with Bobby Jones. George. George went to Denver.
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Podcast Host
The. The. When you got to the NBA and Portland was good, you were good. The warriors were good. The Sonics. The Sonics with, you know, they were very good. The Washington Bullets at the time were very good teams.
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Julius Erving
Lakers are always good. Right.
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Podcast Host
Lakers rose good, was there. Boston's always good. Yep. Who was the first NBA player when you merged that you had not played against? And you immediately thought, okay, because you were the best ABA player. There was a couple of exhibitions, but you watch on TV or you read about who was the first NBA guy you played against and which, of course,
- [31:13]
Julius Erving
I think with the Knicks, since I was a New Yorker. And they had Willis Reed and Clyde Frazier and, you know, I mean, those two would. And Clyde. Clyde and I had the same agent. You know, my agency was Walt Frazier Sports Enterprises, run by Irwin. So I had seen Clyde off the court. I'd been in his Rolls Royce and we had gone shopping together, but we had not played on the court against. And, you know, so he was. He was one of the guys that was.
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Podcast Host
He played real defense.
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Julius Erving
Yeah, yeah. The ultimate. The ultimate. And the Knicks, you know, they also had David Buscher and. And we played them in exhibition games, and the exhibition games were all very good. I think we beat them. But, you know, they always had the excuse our guys aren't in shape yet, because, you know.
- [32:04]
Podcast Host
Right.
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Julius Erving
We really take the off season off training camp is when we. We get in shape and get ready for the season. And that's when you see us at our best. And I'm like, every time you step on the court, I'm supposed to see you at your best. Don't make excuses, man.
- [32:22]
Podcast Host
How much of your artistry was practiced and how much was instinctive? The dunks, the swooping. I mean, a lot of times you can go to Rucker park or you can go to the park, but some of the stuff I watch feels like it was. I mean, the dunk over Cooper. I'm sure you'd practiced it, but that the ball was loose on the left side, right outside of the coaching box. How much of your game was instinctive and how much was practiced?
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Julius Erving
My answer to that is the greatest compliment that I've ever received. Were from teammates Al Skinner, Henry Bibby, Steve Makes. And they took the time to say, doug, I gotta tell you something. And I said, what's that? He says, you just play differently from everybody else. And I'm like, what do you mean, dribble? My dribble. Left hand, right hand. The fundamentals are the fundamentals. You know, you. You pass, you rebound, you score, you defend. The fundamentals are fundamental. They said, no, not the way you do it. These were my teammates. Yeah, these are my teammates. So I tried to kind of get a big head out of it, but I had no way to prove it. You know, we could look at film and we could look at the. You know, you have. You have. You have these guys now. Who are the analysts? Analytical.
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Podcast Host
Right.
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Julius Erving
People. And, you know, each franchise has 10 to 15 of these guys, right, who go through that, and then they give reports and. And they could see things that a player couldn't see. And they. And obviously, that's why they have the job that they have. But my job was to, like. Iceman always said my job was to perform. I like to put on a show, right? So I get out there on the court and I. I want to put on the show. And when I did something special, I didn't run down the court and get ready to play defense. You know, not celebrating and banging the chest or jumping on the stands or, you know, falling into fans. And so when I watch the game now, I'm not all that enthralled with the celebratory part, right? And I. And I was with. I'm in Vegas now. I was with George yesterday. And I said, you know, how many times you could have looked at one of your opponents after you scored on and put your hand down like he was just too small to guard you. You know how many times you would have done that, bro? And he said, he said a million. He said a million times. But that wasn't my style. That wasn't our style. You know, our style was not to degrade people. I mean, we wanted to win and we wanted to beat them. And at the end of the day, I mean, lots of times in the aba, we went out to dinner with the opponents and, you know, we spent time together and we made friends and. Because one thing about the aba, it was one for all and all for one.
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Podcast Host
That's right.
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Julius Erving
So if anybody got any, you were fighting uphill, people. Yeah, we fighting uphill every day. And if people got publicity, we would salute it. We wouldn't be haters. And. And it was a good thing about that time in my life. I mean, that was between age 21 and 26. And if I just could chop that out and created a dash between that time, I would have to say probably the most enjoyable part of my basketball experience.
- [36:19]
Podcast Host
Wow. Is there an ABA player. One was certainly introduced to me in the documentary that I wasn't aware of, but is there an ABA player that you wish would have transitioned to the NBA and fans could have been given a glimpse of, like a player that didn't do the transition, that you look back and go, who?
- [36:41]
Julius Erving
So. So Jimmy Jones comes to mind who played with Dallas and lives. Lives here in Vegas. Jimmy Jones was a great player. I mean, I never hear anybody talk about him. And I speak to him, you know, once every other month or what have you. He's, you know, by being a. On the board of governors of the hall of Fame, I, I try to get him mentioned in the conversation about former ABA players who were not recognized and hall of Fame worthy. Jimmy Jones, Willie Wise, Matt Calvin, you know, those three. Then there's another guard who played for Utah. I can't think of his name right now, and I apologize for that. But yeah, so there's this guy. I mean, it's probably a dozen. If we, if we go through the rosters, who I could pick out, who, you know, I just have a certain feeling about. Because I know playing against them. When I, when I had my career high in against the San Diego Conquistadors, they had a player on their team named Warren Jabali. And his name when he came out of college was Warren Armstrong. And he was kind of a militant type guy. He changed his name to Jabali.
- [38:12]
Podcast Host
That's right.
- [38:12]
Julius Erving
He's Featured in the documentary.
- [38:14]
Podcast Host
Yes, whatever.
- [38:15]
Julius Erving
But I scored 63 points. It was a four overtime game. Brian Taylor scored 50, Jabali had like 54.
- [38:25]
Podcast Host
And, and he was a militant. He was militant. He is described, I think accurately as kind of anti white. He had felt oppressed in his life as many black basketball players in the country watching the NBA. And he just didn't, he didn't hide it. For the record, in the documentary, they don't spend a ton of time on him, but his physique, he looks like an NFL defensive end.
- [38:52]
Julius Erving
He's 6 foot 4, strong as a bull and, and loved to play inside. He loved to get in the paint and can nobody do anything with him? He would, he would get in the paint and, and he would do Warren. So. So he was special and he was, he was a tough matchup. I got along with him. I mean, I kind of get along with everybody, so I didn't. Yeah, I didn't have any real issues. And you know, I had one fight and I got hit by Maurice Lucas. Well, he hit a few guys and we became, we became friends after that.
- [39:30]
Podcast Host
Maurice was an enforcer.
- [39:32]
Julius Erving
I'm like, I could get you on my side because Wendell Ladden is gone. But that's what happened with Wendell Latin. And that's how we got him. Because Kevin Lockery, he always said, man, this guy, he was playing for Kentucky and he says he's sewn reckless, he's going to hurt Doc, and I can't have that. So we traded Mike Gale for Wendell Ladner. And Mike was really good player. But then we had Wendell and you know, we won the championship with Wendell in 74.
- [40:02]
Podcast Host
One of the things about the ABA that I didn't know, and they had a lot of footage of it because you guys were fighting for your basketball lives and your economy. The fights in the ABA and the footage in the documentary, I don't know where they got all the footage, but there are fist fights and at one point in the documentary, they're like, it was a nightly occurrence. The fights. That is Julius. I didn't know. I had no idea. It was nuts.
- [40:35]
Julius Erving
I caught the second half of that because I wasn't there the first three years, okay? And when I got there, I just heard story after story and warning after warning, don't mess with this guy. Don't mess with this guy. Or whatever. And I was like, what do you mean? I'm going, I'm dunking. You know, I'm free. I couldn't dunk in college. So if he's under the basket. He's going to catch it. And he might not like it, but, you know, you always got to have it in Porsche. And, you know, we had a guy when I was with the Nets, we had Rich Jones and Tim Bassett and those two guys, they were my enforcers. They wouldn't let anybody touch me. Somebody hit me the wrong, like hockey, one of those two. If Rich didn't get them, then Tim got so. So that was just the way of the world, you know, and enforcers, they probably don't have as many enforcers out there now because, you know, nobody wants to get hurt.
- [41:36]
Podcast Host
That's right. Everybody's rich.
- [41:39]
Julius Erving
Everybody's rich. Rich guys don't want to get hurt, you know.
- [41:41]
Podcast Host
That's right. The face is the money maker.
- [41:44]
Julius Erving
Yeah, exactly. When you're a poor guy, you know, you didn't get an average. The money didn't, you know, you just swing for the fence.
- [41:52]
Podcast Host
But, yeah, there, there's, you know, I grew up in the West Coast. I. When I went to New York, I visited Rucker park, which is a legendary place. So I, you know, it was one of those things where I had an afternoon after doing my radio show and so what'd you see? Well, you know, there was people. I didn't see some great game. It's a. It's a regular, like a Wednesday, Thursday
- [42:15]
Julius Erving
on a Sunday in the summer.
- [42:17]
Podcast Host
No, no, no. But I wanted to go see it for history's sake. I want to go see it.
- [42:22]
Julius Erving
Yeah.
- [42:22]
Podcast Host
So for the uninitiated here, people in New York get it, old heads get it. But Rucker park was a place you made your name like. So there are playground. Lloyd Daniels. When I used to work in Vegas and cover Tark, you know, Lloyd Daniels, there was old footage of him. Talk a little bit about Rucker park and your introduction to it and how, again, no cable tv. Aba. The truth is, Doc, that, you know, people didn't know who you were. You go, you go and you're putting on a show there.
- [42:58]
Julius Erving
Yeah, well, so I grew up in Long Island.
- [43:02]
Podcast Host
Yep.
- [43:02]
Julius Erving
You know, Rucker Parks, Manhattan, and it's uptown, it's in Harlem. So I've been to and through Harlem many times. You know, I actually had a. Had a job while I was in college delivering books. And I deliver around Manhattan. Brooklyn, Bronx, Queens, Long Island. And, you know, had a card, we had books in the back of the car. We can go to these people's houses and sometimes the blinds would be open, and then when they saw you knocking the door and they had to pay for the book that they ordered. The blinds would go down. It's like nobody's home. So. So collecting was. Collecting was pretty tough. That was a tough job. But I never played in Rucker park until I signed a pro contract because it was a pro summer league. So I signed a pro contract with the Virginia Squires. Charlie Scott is the starter team.
- [44:03]
Public Investing Advertiser
Yep.
- [44:04]
Julius Erving
They call him Charlie the Great Scott. And that's where I got my nickname. Julius Dr. J. Irving. Because my friends, they would call me Doc or they would just call me the doctor. But Dr. J was a better fit with Charlie the Great Scott. Julius Dr. J. Irving. So the Squire started marketing us. So Charlie says, man, I gotta take you to where I play in the summer. And I was like, okay. So, you know, we're in Virginia, we get in the car, we drive up to New York, takes me to this playground. People are all over the place. And it was. It was very special. I mean, my heart stopped palpitating. I mean, I'm like, whoa, this is. This is great. And. And Peter Vessey, who, you know, he was coaching the team. Our team was called the Westsiders. And so we had some guys from St. John's Billy Schaefer and Billy Paltz and Georgie Bronze and me and Charlie Ali Taylor, a few other guys who. I can't think of all their names at the time, but, you know, I mean, they were good. And some of them played little aba, some of them played NBA, and some of them didn't play at all. They just were streetball players.
- [45:31]
Podcast Host
Yeah.
- [45:31]
Julius Erving
So. So. So my first experience was to come there on a Sunday with Charlie, and I was just gonna follow him, whatever his routine was, that's what I was going to do. And I knew he was going to shoot. So. So. So that was part of the routine.
- [45:51]
Podcast Host
That was Charlie Scott's game, putting up some shots, right?
- [45:54]
Julius Erving
So. So Charlie, at first he would park his car, and then he tipped the young man who was out there and he said, you watch my car. You watch it. And that's all you got to do. Maybe gave, like, 10 bucks, whatever. So. So you got to take care of the guy watching your car, because otherwise, after you play, you go back out there, your car ain't gonna be there, or tires are going to be missing, or something's going to happen, right? So take care of the guy. Come out on the court. And Charlie and I, like, we clicked right away. I mean, he took me in, took me under his wing, and, you know, I mean, I knew he was the man on the team, but I was going to be the man next to the man. And I knew that a couple weeks in, I mean I didn't know it right in the beginning, but a couple weeks in with Al Bianchi, who was great coach, very liberal players coach, and you know, he gave me pretty good responsibility early and our team, we didn't have a great team. We had Fatty Taylor, Bernie Williams, Doug Mo, Neil Johnson and Ray Scott. Ray Scott was the veteran player on our team.
- [47:14]
Podcast Host
Yeah.
- [47:14]
Julius Erving
So I knew Charlie was going to shoot and I had a little more of an all around game, so. Okay, well he's a shooter, so I'm not the gunner per se, but there was an opening for rebounding because I had averaged 20 rebounds a game in college. So you know, this is the pros, maybe I can't average 20, but I'm going to try, you know, and I got 15, 16 most nights. And that, that experience, once again, you know, it wasn't the quote unquote NBA experience, but I was now a pro and I was, I was officially a pro because I was getting paid to play and I'd never been paid to play before. And that was the beginning of the journey with the, with the, with the Virginia Squires and it was also beginning of learning something because our trainer, we had, we had a trainer there and
- [48:13]
Podcast Host
he,
- [48:16]
Julius Erving
we have, we were having a scrimmage and he told coach, take me out of the game. And it's 1971, right? Takes me out of the game and I come over and I'd only been playing a couple minutes. And he told the coach in front of me, he says, the guys we're playing against out there, they're going to try to hurt him. And he said, I don't want that to happen.
- [48:43]
Podcast Host
Wow.
- [48:44]
Julius Erving
He said they're going to try to hurt himself. So that was an awakening too. You know, somebody said somebody's going to intentionally try to hurt you because you're better than they are. Amen. You know, that was an eye opener.
- [49:05]
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- [50:03]
Podcast Host
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- [51:12]
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- [51:42]
Podcast Host
All right, two truths and a lie. Here we go. I went to college with college football coach Jim McElwaine, I began my broadcasting career doing play by play for the Las Vegas Stars, and I've been a Verizon customer for 15 years. Okay, I lied. All three are true. A Verizon isn't as expensive as you think. In fact, if you bring in your AT and T or T Mobile bill to a Verizon store, they'll give you a better deal. That's right, a better deal on the best network with the most waste to save on plans, streaming and phone deals. So take that AT and T or T Mobile build to your local Verizon store today, get a better deal and start saving based on root metrics. Best overall Mobile Network Performance U.S. 2nd Half 2025 All Rights Reserve must provide recent consumer mobile bill in the name of the person redeeming the deal. Additional terms, conditions and restrictions apply. The. The ABA experience. The fashion was a big deal. They. They note the afros and the fashion was a big deal.
- [52:44]
Julius Erving
Yeah.
- [52:44]
Podcast Host
Yeah. And a lot of it. I wondered if some of that was. Listen, you know, a lot of young guys. You're all young guys. Young guys like fashion much more than an old guy like me. But was some of it a way to say, hey, man, this league, we're stylish. There's art to the aba. The NBA was overcoached, but you guys had a style. By the way, the media liked the style. That's why they paid attention to you. A lot of startup leagues, Julius, don't get any attention by mainstream legacy media. The legacy media paid attention to you. And I wonder if the style and the fashion played into that.
- [53:28]
Julius Erving
Yeah, but now you're talking about, you know, 1970 to 1976. Okay. For me, those were my five years. 71, 76. And. And. And during that time, you know, wearing bell bottoms, wearing afros and wearing dashikis and stuff like that was very much in fashion. And, you know, people strove to have an individuality.
- [53:58]
Podcast Host
Yeah.
- [53:59]
Julius Erving
About, you know, their. Their personal lifestyle and even the. The spouses, you know, the way they dressed. And, you know, when I got married, which was 74, my wife used to say, where you going? She'd see what I had on. She said, where you going? I like, I'm going out. She said, well, maybe you want to tweak this a little bit. Do this or whatever. You know. And. And so I think a lot of the guys had assistance from either their wives or their sisters in terms of creating their style, especially with the hair. The hair was, I think, a matter of addressing your heritage. We really are an African American. Then you're a descendant of an African tribe of some kind. And when you see tribes, you see the froze. You see. You know, like, now it's the. It's the braids. Yeah. And the twists and the turns, whatever. I never had my hair braided, and it was long enough to probably braid, but I always thought that was like a sissy look, but narrow. Now it's very masculine and. And it's prevalent.
- [55:23]
Podcast Host
Before we let you go, your game was so unique and inventive and creative. When you did get to the NBA and it was a more structured league, there was that push and pull where to be. Julius, you got to let the best guy be Julius. But was there that first year in the NBA, did you feel a little push pull stylistically with your game and the NBA rigidity?
- [55:54]
Julius Erving
Absolutely.
- [55:55]
Podcast Host
You did?
- [55:57]
Julius Erving
Absolutely. And it was really more with myself and my teammates and we had Daryl Dawkins, we had World B Free. We had Doug Collins.
- [56:09]
Podcast Host
World be free.
- [56:09]
Julius Erving
Yeah. World be free. We had Dougie Collins and George McGinnis Caldwell and, and it was. And we got to mid season with that team and I would, I wouldn't say it was easy. The team had its struggles but you know, we had won maybe 80% of our games by the time we get to mid season. And then we wanted to. Billy. Not. That was the second year was Billy Cunningham his first year where we wanted to bring somebody in and change a dynamic of the team. And the first year with Gene Shu we didn't have to do that, but with Billy Cunningham we did. And we brought in Clement Johnson and Reggie Johnson, Johnson boys and whatever. And one was big, strong and a husky and the other was a finesse player and he was a shooter and. But both of them great guys and they just made a seamless transition into, into what we had going. And unfortunately some of the guys who were there their first year, they were no longer there the second year because World Be free went to Cleveland and Yeah. George ended up going to, to Denver.
- [57:33]
Podcast Host
Yeah.
- [57:34]
Julius Erving
So you know, the question once again, was there adjustments? Hell yeah. There were plenty of adjustments. And, and, and I had gone from the Squires to the Nets. So I had experienced an adjustment. But the adjustment from the Nets to the Sixes was a much bigger adjustment. It was huge. It was, was huge. And you know, the reward was this, the business, you know, got a good contract. Let's go. You're getting paid to play, so. So go and play.
- [58:19]
Podcast Host
Do you think your ABA stats will ever be included in NBA history?
- [58:24]
Julius Erving
Oh, absolutely, absolutely. Like right now I would say 99 of the times when I, when I go somewhere or make a public appearance or whatever, they always, you know, mention that I'm at the third in the 30,000 point club and.
- [58:39]
Podcast Host
Right.
- [58:40]
Julius Erving
I'm a four time MVP and a two time playoff MVP and so on, so on and so forth.
- [58:45]
Podcast Host
The basketball community accepts.
- [58:46]
Julius Erving
So, so it's a given. The basketball community accepts it. And I think, you know, sometimes in television broadcasts they don't like to go earlier than 1992 like when the Juneteenth came. So I, I noticed that because you know there was, I mean there was no ESPN when. That's right. Played and you know, so you know, ESPN is kind of like the sports network, right. Other than the cable situations. And so they didn't exist though. So they don't have a handle on that. They don't care about it. I care about it.
- [59:26]
Podcast Host
Of course. Soul Power. It's on Amazon Prime. Legend of the aba. It's fascinating, the footage, the archive footage is remarkable. The fights are crazy. Fortunately, you didn't have a ton of them. You had a skirmish or two with Larry Bird, but everybody did except maybe Magic, so that doesn't count.
- [59:48]
Julius Erving
That's funny. I'm gonna start using that if that's okay with you. We bought Everybody but Magic, right? Yep.
- [59:56]
Podcast Host
Good. Great speaking with you.
- [59:58]
Julius Erving
Thank you. It's been my pleasure. Absolutely. And you know, there's so much more to be told. You know, I'm just telling my version of it and the fans will really enjoy this story.
- [60:10]
Podcast Host
Oh, it's a great four part series. I strong for all you documentary fans, sports or non sports fashion style, the merger, the. I mean the race behind the scenes.
- [60:24]
Julius Erving
There's all the behind the scenes stuff. Oh, it's unbelievable with the recruitment of Kareem Abdul Jabbar and George Mikan and all that stuff. It's good stuff.
- [60:34]
Podcast Host
Thanks, Julius.
- [60:35]
Julius Erving
Thank you, brother. Appreciate you.
- [60:38]
Podcast Host
So a little non Julius Erving news. Drew Dolman, the 27 year old center who I believe played every snap for the Bears last year, suddenly retired. Smart guy, Stanford guy, you know, had made his money and just decided it is a. Listen, man. Playing center in the NFL is a daunting physical experience. You're dealing usually with somebody about 30 pounds heavier, you know, nose tackles. The Jalen Carters are an experience like none other on a football field. Going mano a mano now. Joe Tuney and Jonah Jackson at the guard positions and the Bears are above average on the O line as a unit. And it's not a, it's not a bad center draft in the NFL. It's a good O line year in the NFL and the Bears have a first, a second, a third, a fourth, a fifth and a couple seventh rounders. So they'll, they'll obviously furnish. This draft's going to be all defensive players and probably a center. Now I'd mentioned before they could go all defense during their draft. They'll obviously somewhere in one of those picks there's not a first round center, but they'll be. It's a good center draft, not a great wide receiver, tight end or running back draft. Good tackle, good center draft, good edge Rusher draft. But Dolman's one of those guys. Listen, players make more money. We've had a couple of Stanford guys retire early. You know, players, I mean, Andrew Luck retired early, Stanford. Drew Dolman retiring early Stanford. Years ago, The San Francisco 49ers had an interior offensive lineman retire early. Chris borland, Wisconsin Badger 49ers retired early. You know, offensive lineman, quarterbacks, you know, offensive linemen are in the trenches. Think about it. No unit in the NFL is more physically taxing, yet gets less credit than offensive line. You know, pass rushers, D linemen, it's all anybody talks about during the broadcast. They get the big money. Left tackles get money, but interior linemen rarely do. And you know, Drew Dahlman, he still has, you know, physically, he's still in a good space. So it happens. Caleb Williams went to Twitter and had a sad emoji hulk. It is a loss. It's. The first thing Ben Johnson addressed was the interior O line. It comes as a shock, but I'm always going to defend guys who retire early, especially guys in the trenches. I remember having a conversation years ago with Ed Cunningham, who played at the University of Washington for that national championship team and played for the Arizona Cardinals. His career was about 10 years and he retired and he was still in physically good shape. And he just talked about what playing center because he was an undersized center, kind of a cerebral academic center, but undersized. What it did to your shoulders and your hands and that it's a really tough position to play. I mean, you, you age fast on the interior offensive line. And so, you know, I grew up there was a center named Jim Otto who played forever for the Raiders and pretty sad Mike Webster for the Pittsburgh Steelers. And in the history of the NFL, those two guys had some post football trauma they dealt with, which has been well chronicled. And I understand in this great game, players retiring earlier, especially those who are playing in the most daunting punitive positions. And so I wish Drew Dahlman the best. You know, between Atlanta and the Bears, it's a career to be proud of. But, you know, the Bears are going to have to address it. The good news is the offense is stacked. Ben Johnson has a great sense of offensive personnel especially, and I think they'll figure it out. But it comes as a shock. And you know, you're seeing not every football player lives and breathes for the sport. You know, a lot of them love it. It's a journey. They ascend and they reach a point physically where they don't want to be wobbling with their kids. You know, they don't want to have a bad back and, you know, by the seventh shoulder surgery I've told the story before. I read a story a couple years ago in Travis Kelsey and he's already had 10 surgeries. I was aware of like one. So always going to defend an athlete, a professional football player who retires early. Tip of the cap to Drew Dahlman and now the Bears need to go to work
- [65:48]
Julius Erving
the volume.
- [65:51]
Podcast Host
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- [66:51]
Podcast Host
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Podcast Announcer
Women's History Month, the podcast Keep It Positive, Sweetie celebrates the power of women choosing healing, purpose and faith even when life gets messy love. It's not a destination. You have to work on it every day. Keep It Positive Sweetie creates space for honest conversations on self worth, love, growth and navigating life with grace and grit, led by women who uplift, inspire and tell the truth out loud. I have several conversations with and I know why it took 20 years to hear this and more. Listen to Keep It Positive sweetie on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. It's the new me and it's the old them. This Woman's History Month. The podcast if you Knew Better with Amber Grimes spotlights women who turn missteps into momentum and lessons into power. My like tunnel vision of like I gotta achieve this was off the strengths of like I to make a better life for us. If youf Knew Better brings real talk from women who've lived it, unpacking career pivots, relationship lessons, and the mindset shifts that changed everything. Listen to if youf Knew Better with Amber grimes on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [68:28]
Julius Erving
This is an I heart podcast.
- [68:31]
Podcast Announcer
Guaranteed human.