← The Herd with Colin Cowherd
The Herd with Colin Cowherd
Colin Cowherd Podcast - Eagles Face TOUGH Roster Decisions, Will Cowboys Draft a QB? Deebo Trade, Jimmy Johnson’s Legacy
00:59:06
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- [00:00]
Colin Cowherd
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- [00:36]
American Express Voice
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- [01:07]
Steph Curry
For the Greatest Shooter of all time, Steph Curry. We went live from All Star Weekend for a new podcast called Go Greatest of Their Era and we ranked our top five shooters from the 2000s Major 5.
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Colin Cowherd
Dirk Ford Asia is a loot.
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Steph Curry
You won't believe who Steph left off his list.
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Podcast Co-host
That's so tough. That's why we tap these conversations.
- [01:26]
Steph Curry
Yes, absolutely.
- [01:28]
Podcast Co-host
Love it.
- [01:28]
Steph Curry
Listen to Go G O T E Greatest of Their era on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [01:36]
Bobby Bones
Calling all Yellowstone fans, let's go to work. Join Bobby Bones on the official Yellowstone Podcast for exclusive cast interviews, behind the scenes insights and a deep dive into the themes that have made Yellowstone a cultural phenomenon.
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Colin Cowherd
Our family legacy is this ranch and.
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John Middlekauff
I protector of my life.
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Bobby Bones
Listen to the official Yellowstone Podcast now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
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Colin Cowherd
The Volume all right, we're gonna have a busy week this week at the Volume. I think on Wednesday we have Marcus Thompson who covers the warriors on the Steph Jimmy Butler Connection now, which has been great for the league and great for the war. Mike Mulvihill, who does research analytics for Fox. I bring him on once a year. I'm going to interview him tomorrow. Today my buddy, former NFL scout John Middlekop. His podcast is three and out, so it was interesting. I got a text today from NFL executive. Apparently the Rams were willing to move off Stafford, but They wanted a first round pick. They wanted. And by the way, you know, the Raiders were going to give him 100 million guaranteed, which I still think that'll be the upgrade the Rams make. But it just to throw it out there. The Rams were willing to make a move if they could have two first round picks. What do you make of that? I trust my intel. It's somebody pretty tied to the situation. What do you make of that?
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John Middlekauff
So you're saying that they would not have traded into the Raiders for let's say, a couple seconds?
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Colin Cowherd
Nope. They wanted a first. It was, it was. But, but it's interesting they're so close to the Super Bowl. It is interesting that they would have considered that. Now, you know, this is somebody that is close to it. So it, it, it's interesting. I, it's so hard to get close to the Super Bowl. Right. Like, thank God The Niners have 12 picks this year. So that should fortify them and make. Give them. Cause they've got, you know, secondary and O line issues. But it's, it's even great teams. I mean dynasties close hard like, like you're watching Kansas City this year and you're like they're struggling to score points for the second year in a row. I just, it is interesting they would have considered moving him for a first.
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John Middlekauff
Well, I think Sean McVay was very candid last week when he was with his guy Whitworth's podcast and he was open to say, listen, we can't quantify this guy's value to us on the field, but we can off the field when it comes to our salary cap and we have limitations with a guy who's 37 years old.
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Colin Cowherd
Yeah.
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John Middlekauff
And I think you used to have a line. Was it. You can't. There's not a happy. Happier or something.
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Colin Cowherd
Yeah. Don't try to get happier than happy.
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John Middlekauff
And I thought this with Matt Stafford now if they would have acquiesced and a team would have traded picks that would have made the Rams happy, would he have given the thumbs up instead of taking the one year 40. We'll see what the, you know, in a week what the number actually turns out to be. I think that it's not public kind of shows you that, you know, the Rams didn't just give him $110 million. Right. They and I think Sean McVeigh said today on McAfee, that's a year to year thing.
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Colin Cowherd
Yeah.
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John Middlekauff
Right. So I would imagine they gave him a little bump up in raise. But, but relative to the rest of the league. He's not making what he's making. My take was this. I'm not into telling someone to quote, unquote, take a pay cut or what money means to them. But he's accumulated up before this season even starts, $360 million. Right. So I would imagine he's. If his accountant's done pretty well. I know he's got a big family, probably nine figures in the bank and working for him in investments like Mass, Stafford's doing really, really well. Not only will he never think about it, his family never will. So it doesn't get any better than Sean McVay, does it? Why would he want to leave?
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Colin Cowherd
Well, it's just I saw a story today where Fred couple said that Brooks Koepka, if he could, if he could, would go back to the PGA Tour from the liv golf. And again, I think, I do think generational wealth does make you happy for maybe 12 months. You know, it. It's you, you, you get this kind of money, you set up trusts with your kids or you, you know, you buy that third home if you're Brooks Koepka and that fourth car. And it does give you a sense of independence. But ultimately, people, John, not to be Tony Robbins here, people like to be part of something. You know, it's not just the money. Like the PGA Tour is part of something and it's an established something and there's credibility with it. That's not a shot at the live tour, which I've defended. But the Rams are something in Los Angeles. Well owned, well run, well coached. Right now, the Raiders are a dream of what could be. The Rams are something. So I think I've always said this. Don't chase money. Chase good management and you'll eventually make good money. Maybe not great money, but good money.
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John Middlekauff
Yeah. And I think if you use the live guys as an example, you know, Phil got a couple hundred million dollars, but he was already worth hundreds of millions of dollars.
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Colin Cowherd
Right.
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John Middlekauff
His was more of an fu to the establishment.
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Colin Cowherd
Right.
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John Middlekauff
DeChambeau, Brooks and D.J. these guys are not NBA NFL players. So they get offered 100 to 180 million dollars. It is hard. That changes their life. Matt Stafford making an extra $50 million. I mean, you're talking after taxes or whatever he's taken home 28:30 is not going to change him or his family's life at all, but it will impact his football life, which, like you said, the Raiders or the Giants, which were the teams that look like all in, are not going to win next year. It's just not going to happen.
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Colin Cowherd
Right.
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John Middlekauff
I don't even think it's possible with the Raiders. Right. You just to compete in that division even if you have a huge upgrade at coach. I think Spy Tech is a young up and comer but to think 2020 and Matt Stafford is living in the moment. So to me the risk of getting the extra money, if it would have gone through, would have sent him backwards. I think in his football career, what we saw forever in Detroit, he finally, I felt like when he got to Sean McVay got to validate the career. This guy with all this talent, honestly these last couple years, even more than the super bowl year, it was like Matt Stafford, I mean, doesn't get much better than that. And I think it would have kind of been sad because it would have impacted the Rams. I'm sorry Jimmy Garoppolo or 41 year old Aaron Rodgers. It would have been a drop off from Matt Stafford. So I'm just glad that it, that he stayed and it worked out from a football standpoint because this, they have a good off season. A couple moves here and there. I mean who's to say that they are, you know, top two or three favorite in the NFC to be a, you know, win the super bowl or represent the NFC in the Super Bowl?
- [08:32]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah, I mean I think, I think that game against Philadelphia says it all. They're driving in a snowstorm and they get down to the 15 yard line and they have a rookie center, six round pick and, and they had finally gotten their offensive line right. And by the way, Philadelphia was a better team, better overall personnel. They almost snuck out of that puppy with a W and, and so, and I, I've said this. McVeigh doesn't really rebuild. Shanahan feels like he, he follows up great seasons with clunkers. If like Christian McCaffrey's not healthy, McVay wins every year. It's just they don't really, they reboot, they don't necessarily rebuild the. I was saying it.
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John Middlekauff
I think, you know, you know, one major difference I think the two right now is McVeigh has, I thought Kyle because of his personality would be a little more cutthroat. He's been emotional when it came to Debo resigning him and keeping him Last year with Iuk McVeigh, it's like Jalen Ramsey cut you off. See you Cooper cup this year we're moving on, right? This off season, Stafford, one year deal. That's it. Where it's like the Niners found themselves in this weird predicament of they've got emotional with some of these players. And McVay kind of went to his grandpa's roots of Walsh. It's like, yeah, we're done here. And he's had to tactfully change. You know, with golf, he was a little too outspoken. And even he said that, like, I handled that wrong publicly. But this is a business. We have to make tough decisions. And I think the 49ers found themselves in a rut because they tied themselves to every single player instead of, you know, in football, the guy can be a good player, but you got to pivot. You can't sign them all.
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Colin Cowherd
Well, I mean, Philadelphia is in that spot right now. Darius Slay is an easy cut. That's an easy one. You and I, any fan could make that because they nailed their two, you know, their two early picks at corners. Right. The tougher pick is going to be, do you keep the linebacker? Do you keep A.J. brown? And I've said this before, I would move off A.J. brown. It's in the NBA when a big guy gets hurt early, he gets hurt often. When a receiver is verbal and outspoken early, they're outspoken often. DEZ Bryant didn't get quieter. Right. So Debo didn't get quieter. I would move off A.J. brown. Because you're so good at running back, o line, quarterback, tight end, and Devonte Smith, I think that's an easy one. But. But you don't want to think like a fan. But I think people will look at A.J. brown and go, he's so good. It's wide receiver you can find, really. Puka Naku is a fifth rounder. I mean, there's one or two positions in the NFL. Cornerback, wide receiver, running back. It's amazing how much talent there is in the fourth round. Like, there's all sorts of examples. So, like, I look at Philadelphia and Howie Roseman, who, by the way, you know the organization, he said, after the super bowl, this is going to look different. Not everybody's going to love it. So to me, that was. That was a little bit of a caution. Guys were moving off some popular, talented guys. You don't say that. If you just have to cut Darius Slay, that's an easy one that nobody's losing sleep on.
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John Middlekauff
Yeah. To me, the AJ Brown one would only be if they feel that relationship, that Brandon Graham kind of let the cat out of the bag and then they tried to walk it back. It's like, come on. But, you know, winning cures all in their relationship. I mean, he had a touchdown in the playoffs. He is, when. When healthy, one of the best, what, four, five, six wide receivers in the week. I think the only way they would do something like that would be to clear up some movement if they could get Miles Garrett. And by all accounts, they are going to be one of the lead dogs in those moves. So I think the thing with Zach Vaughn, this is what makes Howie and I would just say consistent football teams maintain it or not. It's like, yeah, he's a good guy. He had an incredible season, but are we going to break the bank for a linebacker? And history would say the Eagles and good teams do not.
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Colin Cowherd
That's right.
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John Middlekauff
Right. Let someone else give you four years, $80 million and $45 million guaranteed. And this is why you keep drafting and why you keep investing. And listen, part of being a good NFL team takes some luck sometimes. You got a guy, one year, $4 million, first team, all Pro. That's why you pay Vic Fangio 5, $6 million. You know, that's he. Last year he looked at this guy, special team or kind of outside linebacker. Let's make him a middle linebacker under my tutelage. Patrick Willis, Navarro, Bowman, let's roll. So if I was Howie, I'd go, well, my return on investment is not the player, it's the coach. Why couldn't I do this again? Why can't we find a guy in the draft, maybe on the second day, second or third round, let Fangio mold him like a piece of clay. He did it with Navarro, Bowman. Why couldn't he? That's the best case scenario. But no one in a million years in the NFL would have said, Zach Bond, first team all Pro, middle linebacker, no chance. And that's that. You know football more than all these other sports. The power of these coordinators, if you get it right, I mean, look at Spagnola, look at some of the offensive coordinators over the years can change your franchise, right?
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Colin Cowherd
Because it's.
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John Middlekauff
You're not paying them player money. You're paying them four or five, six million dollars.
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Colin Cowherd
It's amazing to me how fans really, really struggle. And to me, AJ Brown and Bonner the linebacker are pretty easy moves because I'm not going to disrupt that O line probably for the next three years. I mean, that O line, maybe in two to three years, Lane Johnson retires. But the core of that organization to me is now Saquon, Jalen hurts and that O line, everything else to me, I'll move. But you're finding this with Detroit. It's really, I mean, think how great people thought Dak was. I mean, people really thought Dak was a top five quarterback. When the Cowboys O line five years ago, those guys were all closer to their prime. Now we look up and go, jesus, Dak's the most overpaid guy in the NFL by a long shot. So, you know, I just think when I look at, like when Tyreek Hill, Annie Reid moved off him, I never forget the day it happened. I was like, yeah, of course you move off him. Like you got. Look at the picks. That guy at the time, I'm like, first round, second round, second round. I'm like, brett Feach is going to hit on at least half of these. Of course, you make the move. He's a deep threat. Those guys don't mean much in December and January when it's freezing and windy. So, I mean, the AJ Brown one is easy. I'll go back to it. When a receiver, Debo's a prime example, when they start getting outspoken early, that doesn't go backwards. And you're. And by the way, you won with him. You got to a couple Super Bowls. Like, I also think there's there at some point, in a salary cap sport, players become commodities like, and there's just, you know, you have to move them. They're chess pieces. And you say, well, where's the humanity? Come on, we all know the game here. This is the way it is with pro sports. By the way, in college now, kids leave their program all the time. They make promises, they commit, they leave. We all know this is how the game works.
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John Middlekauff
Well, the one thing with AJ Too, if, if that would be something they wanted to do, he still has a lot of value. Right. I mean, he's still one of the best players in the league. I mean, you're not, you're not just kicking him away like Debo for a fifth round pick. It might bring you back like a second and a third.
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Colin Cowherd
Yeah, right.
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John Middlekauff
I don't, I don't know if you could get, I mean, they traded a first forum. Could they get a late first? I mean, some of those teams don't have the most cap room, but you definitely probably get a second and a third.
- [15:51]
Colin Cowherd
Yep.
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John Middlekauff
You know, depends. I think there's always other moves. He's not just getting rid of a player to get rid of a player. You know, that Milton Williams, the defensive tackle that really came on, they would love to keep, but guys like that, he's going to get $20 million a year.
- [16:03]
Colin Cowherd
That's right.
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John Middlekauff
So I think they're always thinking, the one thing the Eagles have been like since before I got there and ever since long after I left, they will go big game hunting. I'm telling you, if Miles Garrett, this is. The Browns can say all they want. We're not moving off. And listen, I would understand if you're a well run competitive team, but given the desean's situation, this is a time to just blow the thing up. And to me, he would net you multiple first round picks. So if that, if he's available, I think the Eagles would be front and center with the package of things that they would put in front of them to land that player and their owner. And how you manipulate the salary cap is you pay these insane bonus. Right, right. It's everyone plays under the same umbrella of the cap, but I can cut you a bigger signing bonus. And that's where guys sign up for.
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Colin Cowherd
Yeah. And for the record, fans tend to think all these owners are even. No, they're not. Stan Kroenke, Jeffrey Lurie. The Denver Broncos can pay more upfront than a majority of the teams. I mean, the Chicago Bears are just not an organization. I mean, the packers have to get everything approved. The Bears don't have that kind of money historically. I saw something today that came out and I have a friend who has a business and the business changed. It was not his fault. And just the culture of his business changed three or four different ways post Covid, and he's now stuck with sort of a business that's not. It lost about 30% of its legs. And my wife and I had this discussion the other day about something that, you know, I own a podcast company and now it's more of a. We call it more of a media company because we had to grow. And if you don't grow, you'll die. You'll get eaten alive. And I was watching these stories about Shadour Sanders has come off, you know, as arrogant to some people during interviews. And I was thinking about this. Here's what's changed the last two classes. Quarterbacks are coming into the NFL now as millionaires. And go back to when you were 21 years old or 22 years old. If you had like $7 million in the bank, I would have been talkie, like cockier. And, you know, there was always this thing. Bill Parcells, years ago, John said, don't draft celebrity quarterbacks. Well, that's, that's over. I mean, these guys, I'm sorry, if you play at Ohio State, you're a celebrity quarterback. If you play it, you know, under Lincoln Riley or at Georgia, you're a celebrity quarterback. I mean, Carson Beck is average and he's a celebrity quarterback. And the other thing though is, am I wrong? You're a former scout that nil kids come now and they're not starving and they have a nice car and they may have 2 million in the bank. And if they think the organization that's interviewing them is a bottom tier organization and they think to themselves, I don't want to play for the blank. I don't want to play for this team or that team or Cleveland, I'm going to come in with a little attitude. I'm not saying it's right, but I'm saying the world changes. And I think nil for quarterbacks. These kids are coming into interviews now with a little more leverage and with a stronger opinion on themselves.
- [19:21]
John Middlekauff
Yeah, I've been talking to my buddies that are on the road the last couple years and they will tell you that, you know, at the big power four top, I don't know, 30, 40 programs, the parking lots look like the NFL parking lots for the college kids. Like, you go to the University of Michigan or Ohio State or Penn State or Alabama or LSU, I would say there are 70 or 80 brand new cars. And from everything, I mean, Carson Beck just had a Lamborghini stolen. And like you said, he's average. I think, you know, part of this is talking to friends. They like it because these guys are easy to evaluate. How they handled. They made, let's say, $1.8 million over the last couple years. And their work ethic, their accountability, none of it changed. You know, Shador is much more like a Peyton Manning or a Steph Curry, like he's a rich kid.
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Colin Cowherd
Yeah.
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John Middlekauff
I mean, he grew up. He's Deion Sanders son. So he's. He's been around the bright lights from day one, right. Since the beginning. I think the questions people have with Shador is there was a famous line of Dion, like, I think the New York Giants wanted to interview him at the combine. And he asked him like, where are you drafted? And they said seventh. He's like, I'm not wasting my time. But Dion could back it up because he was one of the best prospects we've ever seen. He became one of the great players we've ever seen. These people look at you, you know, when they're interviewing Shador, they don't look at him like he's Andrew Lock or Caleb Williams, like he's not the best prospect. They've ever seen. So I think sometimes they look for a little humility in that moment. And I don't know. I think Shador is going to be a fascinating case. I will say this, watching him as a player, like sometimes you get the kind of that cockiness. You're like, this guy's kind of a fake fraud. Not that tough like he is. Tough like you watch him play.
- [21:00]
Colin Cowherd
Oh, God, yes.
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John Middlekauff
Back up. So to me, he there, there's a old school nature to his game that he gets from his dad. I think they would question his arms. Not great relative to like elite prospects. And even he admitted like I got my mom's genes as an athlete, not my dad. So he's not an upper echelon athlete. And yeah, I just think he's going to be fascinating. Some people think he could fall out of the top 10. Who knows? I mean, there's not a quarterback. None of these guys are guaranteed. Everyone thinks the Giants are going to take one of these court. What if they just signed Sam Darnold? Like they're not a lock to sign any of these or you know, draft any of these guys. So I, I think Cam Ward, who has a much more, I would say gifted skill set, you know, just bigger arm.
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Colin Cowherd
Yeah.
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John Middlekauff
More you just quicker athlete. You're also compared to the crew you're in. Right. So when I'm interviewing people, guy come in, guy come out. Guy comes in, guy comes out. So it's just kind of I'm living in the moment. And when you come off a little bit different, you know, some guys are just rubbed the wrong way.
- [22:01]
Colin Cowherd
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- [23:20]
American Express Voice
It's the last game of the season, and with amex, you can save time with card member entrances at select venues and go straight to the action so you can catch every moment. That's the powerful backing of American Express. Terms apply. Learn more@americanexpress.com with AmEx.
- [23:35]
Steph Curry
Make some noise for the greatest shooter of all time, Steph Curry. We went live from All Star Weekend for a new podcast called goat greatest of their era and we ranked our top five shooters from the 2000s.
- [23:48]
Podcast Co-host
Peja 5 Dirk Ford.
- [23:49]
Colin Cowherd
Peja is elite.
- [23:50]
Steph Curry
Okay, okay, I'm mad at him. I left him off my list, but.
- [23:53]
Colin Cowherd
I still like my list.
- [23:55]
Steph Curry
You won't believe who Steph left off his list.
- [23:58]
Podcast Co-host
That's so tough. That's why we have these conversations.
- [24:01]
Steph Curry
Yes, absolutely.
- [24:02]
Podcast Co-host
Love it.
- [24:02]
Steph Curry
Steph talked about what separates the truly elite NBA shooters.
- [24:06]
Podcast Co-host
When you have a scouting report and you're on the list as not just a shooter, but we have specific rules for how we guard you, there's a fear factor that's associated with anytime you're wide open. Like, you might as well just count that and get on back on defense.
- [24:22]
Steph Curry
Listen to Goat G O T E Greatest of Their era on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [24:32]
Colin Cowherd
And now for our next segment, whiskey business brought to you by Green River Whiskey, the official whiskey of the Colin Cowherd podcast. If you want to enjoy life's simple pleasures, reach for Green River Whiskey. Whether it's rye whiskey, single barrel bourbon, you're getting over a century of craftsmanship packed into every bottle. Hop on over to greenriverwhiskey.com and discover legend in a bottle today. So there was a moment this weekend, Jerry Jones canceled his interview at the NFL Combine, and the Cowboys have had a rough couple years. I mean, they gave away a fourth round pick for Trey Lance. He couldn't beat out Cooper Rush. I mean, if Kyle Shanahan can't make a quarterback accurate, he's not accurate. They gave up a fourth round pick for Jonathan Mingo, the wide receiver. Five catches for the Cowboys. And again both those moves, you know, we all kind of went. Meanwhile the commanders gave up a fifth round pick for Debo Samuel. And it's, it's really interesting as I, as I look at Washington, not just because of the result, but between Adam Peters, Cliff, Dan Quinn, that move for Debo, Jaden Daniels and I don't think like a lot of times there's recency bias. I honestly believe for the next decade Washington is going to be one of the three best NFC teams. And I think what's happening with the Cowboys now, they're becoming the old Al Davis Raiders. They feel like they are honestly they are lost at sea. I mean they are giving away draft picks now. I mean people don't understand. They may rework Dak's contract. It's a $90 million cap hit that is over double Josh Allen. They can rework it all they want to. What 58 I, I said this a year ago, I said they're going to start a decade of regression. It has happened so fast in this league. Shit goes south so fast. What did you make of the Debo only giving up a fifth round pick?
- [26:43]
John Middlekauff
Well, to me you just look at the free agent class and you go, well we don't want to get in any long because the whole thing was Washington has all this cap space, they need some more weapons for Jaden. And you look around, you go, well NFL free agency is the most overrated thing because high end guys never make it. And the guys that do, you have to pay an absolute premium to get. Remember a couple years ago Christian Kirk got like four years $90 million and he actually turned out to be okay. But you have to pay, you know, elite money for those guys so I can get Debo on a year to year contract. I have all this space, all I have to give up is a 5th round pick. In the nil era, 5th, 6th, 7th round picks feel like diminished and watered down. I also think you get a guy who's a little motivated, people are calling him fat, you know, a little like Luca style. Adam Peters knows the guy well. Cliff Kingsbury, you know, when you think back to Arizona, they used a lot of gadget players. Rondale Moore, the Purdue guy, different type player, but guys you get behind the line of scrimmage, you know, I actually think it's a good scheme fit. He has excelled when they've had a route running wide receiver on the opposite side side Terry McLaurin, Brandon Iuk. To me, if you get a motivated Debo, it's a no brainer. We have all this cap space. I give him 17. All I have to give up is a fifth round pick. And if you're the 49ers, you aren't going to pay him $17 million here in a couple of weeks. So it's, I think it's kind of a win win. The Niners are moving off. They don't have to eat any of the money. They trade to a team where the, where the general manager was around not only drafting them, but his good and bad moments.
- [28:12]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah.
- [28:13]
John Middlekauff
So knows his personality because that's another thing. I mean, you've been saying it forever. Wide receivers can be a little moody. I mean, yeah, they got a little like Hollywood actor to them. They need to be. You just, you have to know their personality. It's very rare to get like a Larry Fitzgerald. Most guys are more Debo. And Adam Peters knows this player really well. And I think the Jerry Jones thing, how often in any business that if the 80 year old patriarch of the operation is around and his name's not Warren Buffett in Berkshire Hathaway, is it, is it a healthy place to be when the guy's hovering? He's made an ungodly amount of money. He does not need to be there and he's extra hands on. So Jerry, you could argue Jerry's ego feels like it's only grown as they've quote unquote, struggled over the last decade relative to some of their big seasons and they've underwhelmed in the playoffs. It doesn't feel like Jerry's gone. You know what? I'm going to let Stephen and Will McKay and my coach take a bigger role. I'm just, I'm just going to be more of a figurehead. He always doubles down. I'm cutting the check. My name's on that bad boy. I'm involved. I'm a football guy. And he's not wrong. I mean, he played college football, he's been around his whole life. But unlike a lot of football guys, Jerry is addicted to business and the business of his team is marketing and all that. And it's just, there's just a lot going on with the Cowboys and you know, Micah Parsons. What's you talk about? Dax Cap hit. If they do give Micah a new deal and don't trade him, what's that deal? $150 million guaranteed quarterback contract.
- [29:45]
Colin Cowherd
Brutal. No, I mean, so they're in three.
- [29:48]
John Middlekauff
Guys at a combined, what, like $500 million.
- [29:50]
Colin Cowherd
Crazy. I mean, I just. You can't have three different players top of the market when only one of them, CD Lamb, is top five at his position in the NFL. It's like, I mean, I had a very good year last year, predicting very bad year, picking individual games, very good year, you know, picking teams. I got Washington and Denver and some of the upstarts this year. I think New England is going to be a surprise playoff team. I think the jets are going to go sideways a little bit. They don't have a quarterback. I think Miami, I kind of think they've topped out a little bit. All the motion and the tricks and smoke and mirrors. I think there's limitations there. I think New England's going to be in play. And my other one is, I think Dallas is potentially a five or six win team with Brian Schottenheimer. I mean, the good news is it's a good quarterback draft. They have to go out and get one. If I was Dallas this year, in fact, I think I heard Stephen Jones say this. I had another person tell me who I respect. Keep your eye on Kyle McCord out of Syracuse in the late second round. Do not be shocked if the Dallas Cowboys do go after Kyle McCord of Syracuse. Now they're, they're not late second. I think Dallas may trade down in the second round to get a mid second pick. I am hearing more and more and I went and watched him about a month ago. Kyle McCord throws a really nice ball and I thought about this. If he had stayed because Will Howard completed 61% of his throws at Kansas State. He goes to Ohio state and completes 73% of his throws. If you don't think that matters if, if Kyle McCord stays at Ohio State with Jeremiah Smith and ibuka and the two NFL running backs and Kyle McCord, who's a much better prospect than Will Howard. It's not even. It's not. Will Howard is like late fifth, sixth. In fact, somebody today texts me in the NFL. He thinks after the combine he's a seventh round pick.
- [31:58]
John Middlekauff
I get a bad combine.
- [32:00]
Colin Cowherd
Oh, bad. I think, I think Kyle McCord is going to end up being as good as any quarterback in that draft. This is my hottest take is that he'll be the guy. Tell me I'm wrong.
- [32:13]
John Middlekauff
Well, I think, yeah, I watched a couple of Syracuse games this season and went, this is the guy that Ryan Day because let's face it, they blamed him for the Michigan loss.
- [32:22]
Colin Cowherd
That's right.
- [32:22]
John Middlekauff
Years ago and he got kicked out. And so I listen, I believed him. I was like, hey, this guy, if he can't make it there, maybe they're right. And then you watch him at Syracuse, who had their best season in a while, he was spinning. He's got a big arm spiral. I think him and Jackson Dart because there are so many question marks with the top two guys. With Cam and Shador, if you're talking about two guys you have to draft in the top, I don't know, one guy in the top five, the other guy in the top 12, you can get these two guys. Historically, McCord is not going to be a first round pick, but even Jackson Dart would also have been a second round pick. You could find the Derek Carrs, the Jimmy Garoppolo's, these guys that can start for you. And if you do a good job building your team, you can win with. I think the problem for the Cowboys is if you look at the Dak era, they really only had to deal with the Eagles, right? It's kind of went back and forth over the last 10 years, right, with Doug Peterson and then Sirianni era. Well, now it's not just the Eagles, it's Washington too. So you add another team because Washington up until last year was a joke. The Giants have been terrible for what, a decade plus. So now the Cowboys don't just have to deal with the Eagles, they have to deal with Washington. I mean that's, that's a huge problem. And even if they do draft McCord, Jackson, Dart, whoever, let's say they draft a second round pick that does nothing for them in 2025 and honestly does nothing for them the next couple years. That guy's. They're kind of just hoping to get their Jordan Love, which is good, big picture, team building. But it does not help them trying to beat the Eagles or Washington in week seven. When you're three and three and your season kind of feels like it's teetering, right?
- [33:54]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah, the, you know, it was interesting. I had this take that Sam Darnold so overachieved for the vikings that Kevin O'Connell and their young GM feel like they owe Sam Darnold. They owe him a solid. And everybody likes Sam. Impossible not to like if you meet him. And so they have said publicly, we're not sure what we're going to do. We may resign him. And Everybody knows Kevin O'Connell, the tall Sean McVeigh is a really good coach. Now I'm theorizing this, but Kevin O'Connell knows what he's going to do at quarterback. He's going to use JJ McCarthy.
- [34:38]
John Middlekauff
Yeah.
- [34:39]
Colin Cowherd
But they're doing a solid. This is sort of like what McVeigh did to Baker Mayfield. He told everybody. God, Baker was great. I've never seen a guy work this hard. He was unbelievable. You do a guy a solid who comes in, you want to help him, you want a good reputation that I think the Vikings know what they're going to do, but they feel like Sam is a better guy than Aaron Rodgers. And if those are the two best quarterbacks on the market, they're gonna. They're gonna say nice things about Sam to get him the better deal. Because a lot of these teams, like Vegas, it's gonna come down potentially to Sam and Aaron. So my theory is, you know, Aaron's made a few enemies in his career. You know, he's got his reputation that the Vikings are just doing this to get Sam the better deal on the market.
- [35:27]
John Middlekauff
Yeah, man. I do think last year kind of spoke for itself. He did play really well.
- [35:32]
Colin Cowherd
Yes.
- [35:32]
John Middlekauff
I mean, you and I coming on week in, week out, like, he just. Was that an MVP performance? I mean, that throw and that play he made against Seattle near the end of the season, you thought, like, could he actually win the mvp? And then those last two games, I would say, you know, kind of clouded his fantastic season. The hard part is there was so much on the line in those two games. He was horrendous. I. I think the difference of the two is one, I would struggle with Aaron for any amount of money over like 10, $12 million. Because you're getting a guy that doesn't want to get hit.
- [36:07]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah.
- [36:07]
John Middlekauff
Is naturally kind of moody with an offensive coordinator. Just a unique cat. Sam. His value kind of is Baker Mayfield. Like, it's not a super cheap deal. So you're talking, I would say 80 to 100. But it is. You're getting in bed with him for a couple seasons. Even if it's the Daniel Jones contract, that's a multiple year contract. So there becomes pressure on that. I think, you know, the Giants are kind of in win now mode.
- [36:33]
Colin Cowherd
Right.
- [36:34]
John Middlekauff
You know, does it make more sense? Let's just go with Aaron Rodgers and maybe, you know, veteran quarterback who knows what he's doing. If we get with Sam Darnold, it doesn't work. All of a sudden, we're in a weird spot. I think Sam, like all these quarterbacks, you're going to be much better with a good. With Sean McVeigh, with Kevin O'Connell, with Kyle Shanahan, you get with some of these coaches, like you're just not. I mean, look at Eber Fluss and Caleb in that situation. Now we'll find out how good Caleb actually is. But he had no chance last year.
- [37:00]
Colin Cowherd
Well, I, this is funny about the draft. I was talking to somebody in the league about Jalen Milroe and you know, this person likes Jalen's story and his parents and the kid. He thinks he's a much better Anthony Richardson. But he did say to me, he said, but if he goes to a defensive coach and it's a first time offensive coordinator, he goes, jalen Melrose is going to look really bad. He said now if, if, if he goes to, you know, he goes to a, there's an offensive sensibility or he goes to a, you know, an offensive head coach where he doesn't have to start. He said the kid is physically, he is a better athlete than Anthony Richardson. Like he just will run people over or run by them. And he said he throws a gorgeous deep ball. Anthony Richardson doesn't throw a gorgeous anything. But to your point, with Darnold and Gardner Minshew, with Shane Steichen, almost made the playoffs in Las Vegas. It was a mess. And I think that's how I feel about this year's quarterback class. I really do. John, where do they land now? I think Cam Ward is talented enough to overcome a little nonsense and you get one of those guys every year where they're just kind of good enough to make it work to some degree. But I think every other guy in this draft and Jackson Dart, Jalen Milroe, Kyle McCord, Shador Sanders, they get poor coaching, they get a battle line. It could be ugly fast.
- [38:32]
John Middlekauff
You know, someone asked me like, what's the difference between Jalen Milroe and Anthony Richardson? I said, well, Anthony Richardson had a lot of unknown Jalen. The problem with Jalen is we've seen two years at Alabama as a starter. If he only had nine games for Alabama, he would be a lock first round pick. We can mold them, we can figure it out. His sample size was too big. The thing Anthony Richardson had going for him, small sample size, right? And then the bigger it got Trey Lance one year starting. If he had started three years, would people have been off the scent? And that's where some of these guys that have been three or four year starters, you got Will Campbell, everyone's picking him apart. The guy's been a four year starter at LSU at left tackle. He might end up being a guard, but I'll promise you he's going to start in the NFL for a decade.
- [39:16]
Colin Cowherd
Right.
- [39:16]
John Middlekauff
He might be a guard, but he's going to start in the NFL for a decade. And I understand where he pushes back. Everyone's bitching about my arms. Show me where I'm getting beat because of my arm. But sometimes Logan Mankins was a left tackle at Fresno State. They moved him a guard, Pro Bowler.
- [39:31]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah.
- [39:31]
John Middlekauff
The thing with quarterbacks, the accuracy thing does rattle people. And we have recent examples. Trey Lance, Anthony Richardson, who were, Listen, sometimes you swing for the fences. Aaron Judge, 500ft, sometimes you strike out.
- [39:44]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah.
- [39:45]
John Middlekauff
And you know, Anthony Richardson, let's face it, looks like a whiff.
- [39:47]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah.
- [39:48]
John Middlekauff
Their GM comes out and says we got to bring in competition. If you're saying that year three about the guy you drafted in the top five, it's a problem.
- [39:54]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah.
- [39:54]
John Middlekauff
Trey Lance was traded before, whatever, before year three started. So I think those two guys serve as Jalen. And where people talk themselves in on Anthony Richardson and Chris Ballard wasn't alone. People really liked the kid. That's, you know, Shador, these interviews. People said Anthony Richardson blew him away. We love him. And I think Jalen Milroe, same type deal.
- [40:13]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah.
- [40:14]
John Middlekauff
Look at, look at the similar parallels of all the Saban quarterbacks. They handle the room pretty well. Right. They walk in, you go back to AJ McCarron to, to the dude calling ESPN games, McElroy all the way through the group of the last five, six years, they all handle the room well. The problem is that only goes so far. Can you complete the 18 yard out route right. Or you're going to hit the trainer on the sideline. And I, I think Jalen Milroe, like Anthony Richardson, like I've learned this because I lean the physical traits, the accuracy thing, it's just a non starter. The Josh Allen thing is a historic outlier and I think people kind of chase that. It's like, I don't know if we're ever seeing that again in his story. Right. Bouncing around begging people to sign. It's just, he's just in his own little box.
- [41:03]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah.
- [41:04]
John Middlekauff
You know, so. And I think everyone's kind of chasing that. Like that's not gonna happen again.
- [41:11]
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- [41:17]
Colin Cowherd
So party of two, right this way.
- [41:19]
American Express Voice
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- [41:26]
Steph Curry
Make some noise for the greatest Shooter of all time, Steph Curry. We went live from All Star Weekend for a new podcast called Goat Greatest of Their Era. And we ranked our top five shooters from the 2000s.
- [41:40]
Podcast Co-host
Peja 5, Dirk Ford.
- [41:41]
Colin Cowherd
Paja is elite.
- [41:42]
Steph Curry
Okay, okay.
- [41:43]
Colin Cowherd
I'm mad him.
- [41:43]
Steph Curry
I left him off my list, but.
- [41:45]
Colin Cowherd
I still like my list.
- [41:47]
Steph Curry
You won't believe who Steph left off his list.
- [41:50]
Podcast Co-host
That's so tough. That's why we have these conversations.
- [41:53]
Steph Curry
Yes, absolutely.
- [41:54]
Podcast Co-host
Love it.
- [41:54]
Steph Curry
Steph talked about what separates the truly elite NBA shooters.
- [41:58]
Podcast Co-host
When you have a scouting report and you're on the list as not just a shooter, but we have specific rules for how we guard you. There's a fear factor that's associated with anytime you're wide open. Like, you might as well just count that and get back on defense.
- [42:14]
Steph Curry
Listen to Go G O T E Greatest of Their era on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [42:26]
Colin Cowherd
I want to talk about Jimmy Johnson. He retired on my show today, and he's got. He's made three hall of Fames. And I, I said it on the air as Jimmy, and I had great conversations about, you know, stuff behind the scenes. 90% of it didn't make the air, and it was just good. 90% of it was just filler and information to me that I can then pass on to the audience. But some stuff Jimmy told me I would never pass on. And that's part of what you and I do. Like, we have sources, we have friends. I protect them. Jimmy told me some stories that are so outrageously funny that you could never repeat. But, you know, thinking about Jimmie Johnson, one of the cool things about sports is it gets smarter over time. And like, for instance, in basketball, now we shoot too many threes, but for years, you know, somebody finally said, you know, the math is way better. If you shoot threes over twos, the math works out better. And, you know, it's like in baseball, you know what, strikeouts, they're not the end of the world. Ground balls are so just, you know, we have more efficiency, we have more numbers, more math. You know, for years, the strikeout in baseball was like, ah, the inning ender. No, the inning ender is the ground ball. And you look at the NFL as. I don't think people. Some of our audience knows this, but people did not make trades before Jimmy Johnson made that Herschel Walker deal. It was just so rare. Now they make more trades by far than the NBA. And do you take me back? Because you obviously are younger than me. I Can remember the Herschel Walker trade. And again, I may be dating myself. I can remember the reaction. People celebrated the Minnesota Vikings like they stole Herschel Walker. And in the end, it is the seminal moment that built the dynasty in Dallas. Tell me your thoughts about that moment. Jimmy Johnson, what do you remember him for?
- [44:33]
John Middlekauff
Well, you know, growing up in Northern California, the 49ers might as well have been the Yankee. I was born in 84. So by the time I was coming into my own as a sports fan. 91, 92, 93. I have vivid memories of watching the NFC championship games that the 49ers could not win. And my father, like most 49er fans, were not Big Steve Young guys because Joe Montana might as well have been Michael Jordan meets Jesus. And it was not going well. And I just remember those teams were so good. But in 2020, the Super bowl was held in Miami and It was the 49ers and the Chiefs and Fox had it. And I went do a three and out podcast. You were there. I was hung out in Miami for three or four days and I went to the Chiefs hotel and I was with some of the guys with the Chiefs and they said, you'll never believe this, but yesterday, Andy, because the Fox guys came to practice, he had Jimmy talk to the team. And most of these guys don't know Jimmy as a coach, let alone like he was once upon a time, like the best coach in the NFL. And one of the great, like Pete Carroll, right, of the 80s and 90s winning in college and the pros, and said, and these guys, I mean, the guy telling me the story had been in the NFL for 20 plus years, still on the staff to this day, said he had never seen a pregame. It wasn't in pregame speaker, you know, it was like Tuesday or Wednesday. Everyone the hair on the back of their neck stood up like. He's like, Jimmy doesn't still got it. He could coach this team, lead us out to the Super Bowl. And he said the place went nuts. And it's just one of those personalities. And listen, Jimmy's not the biggest guy. He always had. I mean, I remember him as the head and shoulders guy when I was a kid on the commercials with his hair. But he said of all the people that Coach Reed and all the people that he's just seen come in from the outside and give a speech, it wasn't even close. That was the best thing that he's ever seen. And I think some guys, and this is like, I'm glad that Sean McVeigh didn't go to Amazon. Like, the NFL benefited because Jimmy played a big role on Fox, and Fox getting the NFL changed the course of the NFL business, big picture. But they did lose. I mean, a pretty special coach. I mean, it's cool to see Pete Carroll come back. Like, these people belong. And. And you talk. You're around a guy like Jimmy, even those who retired, how often does he talk to Andy Reid, Bill Belichick? Those are his people.
- [46:58]
Colin Cowherd
Yes.
- [46:59]
John Middlekauff
You know, he. He has more in common with them than he does, you know, media people. Even though he'll go down as one of the great television personalities with the sport in the history of the league. But, yeah, I mean, I just remember being this. Having described that. That kind of speech that he gave to the team. Andy's no dummy. You know, he's like, hey, Jimmy, you know, and he said, it was fantastic. But I remember Jimmy and those Cowboys beating the 49ers. Remember, they beat him in a rainstorm, I think the second straight NFC championship game. And as a kid, a lot of people thought that Steve Young. I mean, can you imagine the story in 2025, the version of getting rid of Joe Montana for Steve Young and then constantly losing to this other team? So it was a really big deal when I was a kid of the Cowboys beating the 49ers.
- [47:45]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah, it was funny talking to Jimmy about the Miami days, Miami Hurricanes, and, you know, the convicts against the Catholics. And he was so proud about how many kids had made, like, you know, the. The honor roll and how he was like, you know, people just thought we were a bunch of dummies. He goes, we had a lot of good students on that team. He goes, you know, it was Miami. He goes, there were kids that liked to go out and chop it up. And he goes, that was part of it. He goes, but he goes, you don't. He goes, because I asked Jimmy one time, I may have been on the air or off, and I said, like, if I said, what is the one quality of a great team? And I asked Jimmy this on more than one occasion, he always gave the same answer. Intelligence. He goes, players have to be willing to learn, learn quickly, and then develop. And he goes, guys that don't do their work, guys that just are slow learners. He goes, it doesn't work. Great teams are intelligent teams. And he goes. Because he goes, especially in the NFL, the margins are so tight. This stuff all comes down to situational football. Kansas City was not as good as Philadelphia, but the last two years, the Chiefs have been so good situationally, that's just smart dudes who have been around, the Joe Toonies and the Kelsey's and the Mahomes, those dudes have been around in big games. So I mean, I think you brought, you talked about this. The Kansas City Chiefs, when they were micing them, those players were like, you know, when they won that super bowl post, Tyreek Hill are like, we just won. We barely even know the defense. Like the following year, it's like, you know, so it's one of the things Jimmy Owens preached was you've got to have player. You cannot develop players if they're not willing learners, if they're not willing to put the time in with the playbook, with the schemes, you need fast thinkers. And so he just wasn't about getting players. I mean, he told me those Miami teams, he go, colin, we struggled to get elite offensive linemen. You know, he goes, you know, places like New Jersey would have four or five of those guys. He goes, we struggled to convince them to come down to Miami. They're like, well, is it a good school? And he's like, yes. He said, so. You know, people forget that those Miami teams weren't stacked, we weren't getting five star guys in the offensive line. He goes, but our guys developed. And it's just, I got to tell you, if you're in your 20s, you do not remember Jimmy Johnson's Miami Hurricanes, but they were, you had to watch them when they played the big games. Florida, Florida State, Notre Dame, Penn State, they had, they were the running Rebels with Tark, with Stacy Ogman and Larry Johnson, they were like outlaws in their own sense. And it was unbelievable television.
- [50:32]
John Middlekauff
I'd even say the Cowboys team he built, you know, I mean, we argue this a lot with could these players play now or play before? I mean, that offensive line that just road graded for Emmett Smith, with Troy, with Michael Irvin, that offense was just, I mean, with North Turner, who was really like a Sean McVeigh, Kyle Shanahan 30 years ago as an offensive coordinator, I mean, Troy Aikman still swears by him. But building that team, I mean, that move he made to then accumulate and this is back in the day, like, we don't have this really anymore because there's a clear line of like coach and GM, they kind of work together. These GMs are also famous. Like he was the GM, right? He was the coach, the GM. And that's what pissed Jerry off. Which I would say is one of the more famous front office breakups in at least in my lifetime. Jimmy Johnson and the 49ers kicking out Jim Harbaugh, essentially. I felt like those two huge personalities that you just don't win. Like you get rid of a coach, people are. They will side with the coach who's a championship level guy every single time. But. But I just remember those Cowboys teams being so. And the other thing is, I think people like big personalities or party guys. I mean, those Cowboy teams had. They were running like a cocaine ring with strippers and stuff.
- [51:47]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah.
- [51:47]
John Middlekauff
But even Dion, you know, huge personality. I remember asking Bobby April, who was a special teams coordinator with the Atlanta Falcons in the late 80s, early 90s, about Dion. And he said, listen, Dion shooting music videos, he's doing all this stuff. He was always the guy sitting in the front of, you know, our meeting. He learned anything I'd give him, he would pick up like that. And on the practice field, I've never seen a guy work harder. So I think sometimes these old school guys, because like, oh, Michael Jordan was drinking all the time. We'll get on the practice court with him. Oh, Michael, Michael, Michael Irvin hasn't slept. Lawrence Taylor hasn't slept well, then practice starts like they are. There is no rep off, there's no load management with these guys. Different breed, you know, different time, different breed. But when I think of those teams, I just think of like, you could put those teams right now in 20, 25 and they would wreck shop.
- [52:38]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah. And there are. You know, it's funny. Lawrence Taylor, a Michael Jordan, a Michael Irvin. I've always. I've known guys, not many, but I've known a handful of guys that they're just wired different. They got different genetics and they can play 36 holes of golf in South Carolina in August and go out and party till midnight. And they're up at six and they can do it like four straight days. I do it once. I'm wrecked.
- [53:02]
John Middlekauff
I mean, some people need less sleep, you know, Some people do not need three or four. You know, Kobe Bryant was notorious. Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods, Andy Reid, like, these guys aren't sleeping. Eight, nine, out. They don't need it. I need eight hours to function more, mind to work.
- [53:15]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah. By the way, I, I was talking about this. We'll wrap with this. And again we have Marcus Thompson who covers the warriors later this week. Michael Mulvihill, who does research and analytics for Fox, will be on later this week. He's. I bring him on once a year. He's got great insight. And every time I bring him on, people Just love Mike Mulvihil. So he'll be on later this week.
- [53:37]
John Middlekauff
I. I'd say there's not a human alive beside in the Curry family that knows Steph better and probably has a closer relationship with Steph Curry than Marcus Thompson.
- [53:46]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah, he's a great storyteller. Such a good dude. So, as you know, I'm moving some of my operations to Chicago. And you know what I found really funny? And listen, my wife was not a fan of la, but we both. I like la. I love California. I love Californians. I'm gonna move to Chicago. Don't love the weather, but whatever.
- [54:08]
John Middlekauff
But, you know, the traffic, the taxes, the people.
- [54:11]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah, I mean, listen, it's a big city. I compare it to Rome. It's just. It's a lot. It's spread out. It could take you two hours to drive across town. Yeah, the taxes are expensive. I lived in Connecticut. Taxes weren't cheap there. I like California. I like the people. There's a lot I like about it. But we have a place in the burbs in Chicago. But it was funny. People will come up. Why are you moving here? I'll just say, my wife's got family here. I found myself this weekend defending California. And I said this to somebody, I said, listen, you ever been on Google? Ever watch Netflix? You ever watch YouTube? You ever use DocuSign? And I started naming these companies. I'm like, they're all California founded and based, and there's a lot of smart people that built those. And despite the taxes and regulations, they still built like, the six of the 10 biggest companies in America are California based. And it's funny, you live in California and there's so much I love about it. I do think it's outrageously expensive and I do think there's a lot of waste and the politics can get very wacky in Sacramento. But I thought of you when I defended him after I thought, I'm going to ask Middlekoff. You moved out of California and you're happy getting married soon. You're very, very happy. How do you look at leaving California? Do you miss it ever?
- [55:33]
John Middlekauff
No. I think it's the best move I've ever made without hesitation in my adult life. I would say there is a big difference between Southern California and Northern California. Yeah, I mean, you get a lot more sun than we got up there and the prices are the same. And depending on where it could be, Palo Alto and some of these areas, Danville, I mean, are most expensive areas in, like, the. The world. Yeah, so. So you factor in a lot of that. I, I do wonder big picture with California. Listen, I got a brother who has a farming operation. Like he's gonna. He's 35 years old. He'll be there the rest of his life. My mother lives there, my friends and family live there. I go back there to see these people. I do wonder Silicon Valley, which I would say changed the state financially, put it in a different stratosphere. Those companies that you go back to Apple and the companies in the 80s and 90s that have taken off and listen, I have a lot of friends. When I graduated from cal poly, it was 0708 range. A lot of my friends went to work in Northern California for startup companies that turn or early iterations of the Facebooks. Right. Oracle, as it was really taken off in these companies and they have, financially, the windfall that they've had through their 30s is like being a backup point guard. I mean, some of these. It's been incredible. Are these companies in 2025 the version of Facebook or whoever going to start in Silicon Valley, given how expensive it is to run your business there and get people to. And I just wonder, I mean, you see what's happening in Florida, in Texas, in Vegas and here in Arizona, that it is so much more lucrative if I was going to start a company, the version of what these have become. And that's the mindset of all these people in Silicon Valley. It is so much cheaper just to do it in Austin or in Miami or. And I just wonder, big picture, the Silicon Valley shift. I mean, you've seen it with Hollywood. Hollywood, right. The movies, at least to my knowledge, and reading articles are not shot there like they once were.
- [57:34]
Colin Cowherd
Right.
- [57:35]
John Middlekauff
Because it is so much cheaper. I have a buddy that listens this podcast that is the lead in Suits la. They shot that thing in Canada.
- [57:41]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah, right. No, no, I mean, listen, I just.
- [57:44]
John Middlekauff
I just wonder now there's. Historically, there's always shifts back and forth.
- [57:48]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah.
- [57:48]
John Middlekauff
And you and I have spent time. You spent more time. But I live in Philly for a couple years. I do feel like the wiring of those people, it goes back and forth too. But they will draw a hard line in the sand in California. I don't know if you could ever get the complete pullback. I don't know. It's going to be a huge, I don't want to say experiment, but it's going to be fascinating to watch over the next 10 years. Can they shift back? Because they're going to have to keep these company. They have The Apples, the Facebooks, the Oracles, they're there. But what about the new versions of these companies over the next 20, 30, 50 years? Will they start and grow and come to fruition under their watch? Or are they happening in Vegas or in Dallas, Texas, or in Glendale, Arizona? I don't know.
- [58:31]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah, no, I think it's, it's a good point. We, we thought five years ago that all these companies like Apple and Meta were far left. And to your point, they drew a line in the sand and those guys were all sitting down with Elon Musk, you know, Inauguration day, like front and center, making a statement. So I think with big business, there's always a line in the sand, people. I've said this before. Bob Iger privately, of Disney is more conservative than he is publicly because he runs an entertainment company. And you kind of have to lean left publicly, but privately you have to do business. There's decisions you have to make that you're not going to announce. But I, you know, it was just interesting as I was, I was talking about California and, and, and, you know, my life, my wife wasn't a big fan of Los Angeles. My son wasn't. That's okay. I mean, it's just a big city. But it, it is interesting when, when you say you're from California to people outside of California, man, they have strong opinions. It's almost like the NBA. Like, people don't even have to watch the NBA. They're going to give their opinion of the NBA. And that's how I feel when I'm in the Midwest, how California is. People have been to it twice. Once is Disneyland when they were eight and they got a big opinion on it.
- [59:47]
John Middlekauff
Obviously. A lot of people in my life, I would say, live in the greater San Francisco area.
- [59:52]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah.
- [59:53]
John Middlekauff
And have for a long period of time and live good lives. I do think they would be shocked to hear the common theme, the way humans talk about San Francisco. I would say San Francisco is a more polarizing conversation in Chicago, in Kansas City, than Los Angeles.
- [60:11]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah, yeah, right.
- [60:12]
John Middlekauff
I would say San Francisco right now is probably viewed by the, the average dude as the most toxic place in America in terms of just polarizing, of craziness.
- [60:23]
Colin Cowherd
I, I went to a Super bowl in San Francisco. I stayed at the Mark Hotel, which is like on top of a hill. And again, I think people listen to me. I'm kind of a moderate independent. I can lean left on social stuff. Right. On fiscal stuff. I didn't walk around much at night. And this was eight years ago. Like, I remember being there.
- [60:45]
John Middlekauff
17.
- [60:45]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah. I remember being there and thinking, this is not the same place, at least not in this neighborhood. And I went to the same restaurant twice, the same piano bar twice. And no, I mean, listen, I'm not somebody that just, I'm not somebody that listens to a lot of conservative radio. And I'm not here with the talking points, but it's been really fascinating for me to, you know, moving some operation to Chicago and listening to people have an opinion on California. You know, a lot of times I just, I just consume it. I'm fascinated, but it is, boy, do people have an opinion, man.
- [61:19]
John Middlekauff
I think the other thing people would be shocked about is the amount of money that your average employee at some of these places at Facebook and Oracle that are my age. Right. Late 30s, early 40s make. I mean, it's the money there. And this is why, listen, a lot of my friends don't love, definitely the politics there. And they have young children in the school system. Things can be really wacky. But it's really hard to find $800,000 jobs when you're a state school graduate at these places that you've been at for a long time. And the companies for my generation that graduated into the financial crisis, the boom of Silicon Valley, changed a lot of people in my world's life. Now I'm working in football, making nothing as they are just taking off like a rocket ship. And one thing I've heard over the last, I would say six months is they are laying people off constantly. They go, what do you. They're doing the Elon. So what do you do? You know, because you start, you lay off 10 employees, you could be, you know, if they average compensation $750,000, it can add up pretty fast.
- [62:22]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah.
- [62:23]
John Middlekauff
And you know, as they got so big that you weren't paying attention. And over the last couple of years, I think. And listen, Elon takes a lot of shit. When he bought Twitter, he basically did, what's everyone doing here? This place isn't making any money. And secretly, I think everyone else in Silicon Valley kind of was able to follow suit, like six months later, much quieter.
- [62:40]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah, I got a friend that works at Meta, two friends that work at Meta. And over the last three years, Zuckerberg has gone into hyper efficiency mode, like he is. Just every meeting, that's what they discuss. So, yeah, I think people look at Elon, but I think it's a trend in that part of that sector and that part of the country is we got big, broad, sloppy, and layers of bureaucracy we're getting out of it. And so it's. Anyway, it's just. It's our last topic today. John Middlecoft3 announced the podcast as a former Californian who kicked to the curb and is now golfing in December in Scottsdale and loving life.
- [63:25]
John Middlekauff
Okay, Colin, take it easy.
- [63:26]
Colin Cowherd
All right, buddy? The volume.
- [63:32]
Nikki Glaser
This is Nikki Glaser from the Nikki Glazer Podcast. On a more serious note, I'm still thinking about that commercial with Tom Brady and Snoop Dogg hating on each other. Because when you listen to the reasons for hating someone or something, you realize just how stupid they really are. There is too much hate in this country and it's gotta stop. So join us at iHeart in standing up to it. If you see hate, speak up, call it out and you can learn more by following OTs. UpWithHate.
- [63:59]
Steph Curry
Make some noise for the greatest shooter of all time, Steph Curry. We went live from All Star Weekend for a new podcast called Go Greatest of Their Era. And we ranked our top five shooters from the 2000s.
- [64:12]
Podcast Co-host
Paja 5 Dirt Ford.
- [64:13]
Colin Cowherd
Paja is elite. Okay.
- [64:14]
Steph Curry
You won't believe who Steph left off his list.
- [64:17]
Podcast Co-host
That's so tough. That's why we have these conversations. Love it.
- [64:21]
Steph Curry
Listen to Go G O T e Greatest of Their era on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [64:28]
Nikki Glaser
We all have a moment that splits us wide open. On my new podcast, Wide Open with Ashlin Harris, I'll sit down with trailblazers from sports, music, fashion, entertainment and politics to explore their toughest moments and the incredible comebacks that followed. Listen to Wide Open with Ashlyn Harris, an iHeart women's sports production on the iHeartradio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [64:55]
Colin Cowherd
Presented by Elf Beauty, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports.
- [65:00]
Bobby Bones
Calling all Yellowstone fans, let's go to work. Join Bobby Bones on the official Yellowstone podcast for exclusive cast interviews, behind the scenes insights, and a deep dive into the themes that have made Yellowstone a cultural phenomenon.
- [65:17]
Colin Cowherd
Our family legacy is this ranch, and.
- [65:19]
John Middlekauff
I protect it of my life.
- [65:21]
Bobby Bones
Listen to the official Yellowstone podcast Now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.