Colin Cowherd Podcast - HUGE NFL Free Agency Moves, SGA vs. Jokic For MVP? LeBron’s Spat With Stephen A. Smith

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Herd with Colin Cowherd Episode: HUGE NFL Free Agency Moves, SGA vs. Jokic For MVP? LeBron’s Spat With Stephen A. Smith
Release Date: March 10, 2025

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Introduction

In this episode of The Herd with Colin Cowherd, host Colin Cowherd delves into significant sports topics, including major NFL free agency moves, the ongoing debate between Shai Gilgeous-Alexander (SGA) and Nikola Jokić for the NBA MVP award, and the recent altercation between LeBron James and sports commentator Stephen A. Smith. The discussion is enriched with expert insights, passionate opinions, and notable quotes that shed light on each subject.

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1. Major NFL Free Agency Moves

Colin Cowherd:
"The Rams have signed Devonte Adams to a two-year deal for pretty hefty money. They're moving off Cooper Kupp, so why go after Devonte Adams?"
Timestamp: [10:00]

Colin analyzes the Los Angeles Rams' strategy in the current free agency market, highlighting their decision to secure Devonte Adams despite having Cooper Kupp. He draws parallels to the Golden State Warriors' approach in basketball, emphasizing the focus on building a competitive team around star players. The Rams are aiming to maintain their offensive strength while keeping their defense young and cost-effective.

Sports Analyst:
"The Rams have been doing this. They're spending their money on offense and trying to keep their defense young, flexible, and less expensive."
Timestamp: [12:45]

He supports Colin's viewpoint by elaborating on the Rams' consistency in maintaining a robust offense. The signing of Devonte Adams and Puka Nacua positions the Rams as formidable contenders, especially with a quarterback like Matt Stafford who can lead them to Super Bowl victories in the near future.

Key Points:

• Strategic Signings: Emphasis on acquiring players familiar with the system to ensure immediate performance.
• Financial Management: Balancing high-profile offensive contracts with a cost-effective defense.
• Future Outlook: Confidence in sustaining Super Bowl-caliber performance over the next few seasons.

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2. MVP Race: Shai Gilgeous-Alexander vs. Nikola Jokić

The episode transitions into an in-depth discussion about the NBA MVP race, focusing on Shai Gilgeous-Alexander (SGA) of the Oklahoma City Thunder and Nikola Jokić of the Denver Nuggets.

Colin Cowherd:
"SGA's production isn't Jokic's, but it's damn good. He's a better defender and is carrying a younger roster."
Timestamp: [33:35]

Colin presents a compelling case for SGA, arguing that his impact on a younger Thunder team may offer more value than Jokić's individual brilliance on the Nuggets. He points out that Jokic's team has shown defensive weaknesses, particularly against top-tier competition, which could affect their MVP candidacy.

Sports Analyst:
"Jokić is a better basketball player than Shay, but when you consider team success and individual value, Shay deserves more credit."
Timestamp: [33:46]

The analyst concurs, noting that MVP considerations often extend beyond mere statistics to include team performance and the player's role in driving that success. SGA's leadership and defensive prowess are highlighted as significant factors that bolster his MVP chances.

Notable Quote:
Sports Analyst:
"There are games where I'm like, where is he? Is he on the floor now? This was not one of them. He was terrific."
Timestamp: [28:18]

Key Points:

• Individual vs. Team Impact: SGA's role in energizing a younger roster versus Jokić's individual statistics.
• Defensive Contributions: SGA's superiority in defense as a critical component of MVP considerations.
• Team Success: The Thunder's leading position in the standings and how it influences MVP rankings.

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3. LeBron James’ Spat with Stephen A. Smith

The final major discussion centers around the contentious interaction between LeBron James and sports commentator Stephen A. Smith, particularly concerning LeBron's son, Bronny James.

Colin Cowherd:
"LeBron and Stephen A. have had their differences, especially regarding the coverage of Bronny. It's a complex situation beyond just good and bad."
Timestamp: [50:20]

Colin explores the nuanced dynamics between LeBron and Stephen A., acknowledging the public criticisms and defending LeBron's protective stance over his son. He emphasizes the importance of understanding the personal motivations and backgrounds that influence their interactions.

Sports Analyst:
"There's nothing of it. There's nothing there. It's a huge anti-LeBron sentiment, and then LeBron's tired of it and he's lashing out. It's just part of the reality."
Timestamp: [56:15]

The analyst further contextualizes the feud, explaining that it stems from long-standing media critiques and personal grievances. He underscores the challenges faced by public figures in maintaining personal relationships amidst professional scrutiny.

Notable Quote:
Sports Analyst:
"Stephen A's right to discuss Bronny. But there's a huge anti-LeBron sentiment and now LeBron's getting in his face. It's part of the predicament."
Timestamp: [56:55]

Key Points:

• Media vs. Personal Relationships: The strain between LeBron and Stephen A. due to public commentary on Bronny.
• Protective Instincts: LeBron's efforts to shield his son from media backlash.
• Public Perception: How media narratives shape the dynamics between sports personalities.

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Conclusion

In this episode, Colin Cowherd navigates through significant sports news with insightful analysis and candid discussions. From strategic NFL free agency moves to the intricacies of the NBA MVP race, and the personal conflicts within the basketball community, the conversation offers listeners a comprehensive look into the current sports landscape. Notable quotes and expert opinions provide depth, making it a valuable listen for those keen on understanding the multifaceted nature of sports management and athlete relations.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

1. Colin Cowherd:
   "When you have a Super Bowl-winning quarterback, don't waste the years. You don't know what happens."
   Timestamp: [12:15]

2. Sports Analyst:
   "We have to consider that Pittsburgh doesn't possess the ability to get the most out of a quarterback like Sam Darnold."
   Timestamp: [20:45]

3. Colin Cowherd:
   "Nick Boltton just got signed to the Chiefs. Linebacker, excellent player, super rangy."
   Timestamp: [14:18]

4. Sports Analyst:
   "Jason Tatum is a great player, one of the top eight in the league, but he doesn't have a flashpoint in his skill set."
   Timestamp: [28:18]

5. Colin Cowherd:
   "Jokic puts together a stat line that's never happened in NBA history."
   Timestamp: [33:35]

6. Sports Analyst:
   "LeBron and Luka going against Derrick White and Al Horford. Al Horford is some of the best reps against bully ball players."
   Timestamp: [21:30]

7. Sports Analyst:
   "There's nothing of it. There's nothing there. It's a huge anti-LeBron sentiment."
   Timestamp: [56:15]

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This summary captures the essence of the episode, focusing on the primary discussions while omitting advertisements and non-content segments as per the user's request.

Transcript

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You won't believe who Steph left off his list.

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The Volume all right, we have a busy Sunday night podcast which for some of you will be Monday morning, but you can always go to the Colin Coward volume YouTube page to get this stuff. We put it up there as soon as it's done. So let's start with a lot of NFL stuff. This is free agency week and and you're going to start seeing information pour in on free agency stuff. So let's start with a big one. The Rams have signed Devonte Adams, the former Packer and jet with Aaron Rodgers. Rams signed him to a two year deal for pretty hefty money. Well, they're moving off Cooper cup, so why go after Devonte Adams? Because the Rams, much like the warriors wanted to get somebody on Steph Curry's timeline. Jimmy Butler, a veteran who can win now. And the Lakers wanted to do it. You know, they didn't want to give up Anthony Davis for a kid. They want to win now. The Rams Sean McVay think they can win a Super bowl and Devonte Adams and Puka Nukua will be the 1 and 2 wide receivers. Also interesting, they signed Tutu atwell to a one year deal for 10 million. Why? Because he knows the system. He can run, he can get downfield. They don't want to break anybody in. They feel they got two years with Matt Stafford, that he can play at a Super bowl winning. So the Rams have been doing this. I've talked about this at great length. They're spending their money. Chiefs do this. They're spending their money on offense and trying to keep their defense young, flexible and less expensive. That doesn't mean Jared Verse isn't going to get a huge deal in a few years for the Rams. You keep your stars. I saw Nick Bolton just got signed to the Chiefs. Linebacker, excellent player, super rangy, great linebacker. But you've got Matt Stafford, Kyron Williams, Puka Nakua, Devonte Adams, Tyler Higsby, a very solid B B plus tight end. 2, 2 Atwell in the system, knows the offense. They may go draft. They also signed left tackle Jackson to a contract. So they got Havenstein right tackle, Jackson left tackle. They're spending all their money on offense right now. But it's a great defense. You could argue the defense is more talented, but it's very young and doesn't cost as much. So this is just, you know, this is the Rams formula. You got a quarterback that can win the super bowl for the next two years. We're going to load them up with guys that know the system or know how to play. And so that's why you get the Devonte Adams deal. And I agree with it. I agree with that belief, which is when you have a Super bowl winning quarterback, don't waste the years. You don't know what happens. Stafford's been dinged up his whole career, so get him ready to go. This this defense last year, which gave Jalen Hurts trouble in the snow or Hertz passed for under 70 yards. This defense good enough to win a Super bowl, but it wasn't offensively good enough to win a Super Bowl. So they're going to move off Cooper Cup. You'll have two number ones in Puka, Devonte, Adams. They'll probably draft another wide receiver. But you've got it all now. You got both tackles, your quarterback, star running back, better than average tight end and now two number ones on offense and a great head coach. So the Rams deal makes sense. Another story, Diana Rossini reporting that the Pittsburgh Steelers are going to make a big run at Sam Darnold, the most athletic in the prime quarterback available on the market. She said she still believes the Seahawks are the leader in the clubhouse. So I think about this stuff all the time and because I've bounced around in my career and what do I consider when you're moving around and you have options, I always consider the management just as much or more than the money. And for Sam Darnold, I'd be very wary of Pittsburgh. I do not think the Pittsburgh Steelers currently possess the ability to get the most out of a quarterback. That doesn't mean Sam Darnold couldn't be a Steeler and be pretty good, but there's about six or seven, maybe a few more. But six or seven teams in this league that I think are uniquely equipped to get the most out of any quarterback, whether it's a star or a B quarterback. Sam Darnold, B + the Rams with McVeigh Kyle Shanahan in San Francisco, Andy Reid, Kansas City Sean Payton getting the most out of Bo Nicks, Kevin O'Connell in Minnesota. There's more, but I'd say there's seven or eight organizations. Philadelphia has done a good job where, you know, the O line, the coaching, the coordinating, they put a lot of resources around the organization to help the quarterback. I do not consider the Pittsburgh Steelers one of those. We'll see how Ben Johnson works in Chicago, but you know, historically, even recent last decade, Chicago's not equipped to help a quarterback be his best again. It doesn't mean Mitch Trubisky can't get into the playoffs, but the Bears have shown time and time again they lack a sensibility. They can be tone deaf. It's more of a deep defense first organization. Pittsburgh Steelers have led the NFL in defensive spending for, I think three years, guaranteed. Maybe it's four. So that's just the organization. That's the coach. They can't get the offensive line right. McVeigh has gotten the offensive line right. Andy Reid, Sean Payton, those guys need one off season to get it right. Steelers been trying to get it right and they put draft capital in it. They've spent money on it. They still can't get the O line right. So I think for Sam Darnold, you have to consider that. I'm not saying Seattle is a great offensive organization. Mike McDonald's a defensive coach. But the GM, John Snyder, I mean, he just doesn't miss on wide receivers. You go back to his history. He gets wide receivers right, he gets running backs right. I like Seattle's offensive personnel and I'm not absolutely sure Darnold would crush it there. But I have more confidence in Seattle than I do Pittsburgh, which is telling you. I have very little in Pittsburgh, little confidence in Pittsburgh offensively to get the best out of any quarterback. Again, I'm not saying if you would have put in Brady in Pittsburgh, he wouldn't have been successful, but there's a reason that he and Bruce Arians won a Super Bowl. They're just coaches that are better at this stuff. So that's where we are today. You're going to get more and more information coming out probably by the time this airs. But I think the Darnold story is interesting. I would guess it's probably 65, 35, 60, 40. Seattle over Pittsburgh. They're both very good rosters, both the Seahawks and the Steelers. And Darnold will have in both instances, especially Pittsburgh, you're not going to have to outscore everybody. But when you're in a division with Lamar Jackson and Joe Burrow, you know, you need to have an organization that really gets offense, and I don't think the Steelers do now. Diana also reported that the Seahawks will come in contact with Aaron Rodgers. So I thought Aaron played really well at the end of the year. But if you're giving me Darnold or you're giving me Aaron Rodgers, I would take Darnold, even though I think Aaron has obviously a much more impressive resume and at his best can be better than Sam Darnold. But Sam is at this point in his prime. He's much more athletic. I think he's more coachable. You don't get any baggage, Aaron, at this point. And listen, I was told by a source, I said this three weeks ago or maybe a month ago, and I trust my source that when Aaron Glenn, the new Jet coach moved off Aaron Rodgers. Remember, Aaron flew out to New York thinking he was going to be a Jet, and Aaron Gled said, we're not interested. My source said the jets told him, we don't want that quarterback and we just don't want Aaron the guy. It doesn't mean Aaron is Lucifer, but Aaron comes. He's a very moody guy and a very moody player. And I was told that by two people who played with him for the Packers. And so if you've got a young Coach in Mike McDonald, do you want to saddle him with Aaron Rodgers personality? Aaron Glenn wanted no part of it because Aaron Glenn from Detroit knows how valuable culture is. So Seattle is building their culture, and I think Aaron's not a good fit for that now. When he went to New York, Robert Sala felt he had the culture built. He needed a life preserver. It didn't work. But that's not what Seattle's looking at. Seattle is saying to themselves, hey, we may draft a quarterback this year. We'll certainly draft a quarterback next year. It's a much better college quarterback class. But we got a roster here that can win. And we think our staff, we got two good backs. Noah Fant, you know, receivers. John Snyder either drafts them or acquires them. He's good at that position. The old line is good enough. Defense is young and talented. We think Sam can keep us going in the direction that we want to build. So I think Aaron's a long shot to Seattle, but he's been so talented and he did play well in the last 10 games. I think you talk to him. I mean, if Darnold's camp wants 45 million and Aaron's willing to play for less, okay, then you go with Aaron. So Sam's to me, talented. But his contract should be closer to Baker Mayfield than it should be to what Brock Purdy will get. Even though I think Darnold is talented, Purdy's going to get about 48 million. Probably close to it. I don't think I'd spend it on Sam, especially giving him, you know, I'd give him two, maybe a team option. Third, I'm not giving him four. He just has one great year and a lot of questions. Speaking of Aaron Rodgers, there's stuff trickling out that Aaron Rodgers or Russell Wilson will end up with the New York Giants. Say it out loud. Old quarterbacks going to organizations to be a savior. It doesn't work. It didn't work with Aaron with the Jets. It didn't work with Russell to the Denver Broncos. You can be an older quarterback and go to a really good roster. Stafford, la, Tom De Tampa. But this, this Aaron Rodgers to the New York Giants. Wow. I'd consider retirement. That organization, you got a coach and a GM that could be gone before Thanksgiving. Offensive line has issues. They have one weapon. The running game's weak. The division's excellent. Now that Jaden Daniels appears to be Lamar Jackson of the nfc, you know, it always ends the way it should for quarterbacks, right? What you put into it, you get out of it. And if Aaron Rodgers signs with the New York Giants, this is how it should ended. Superstar level quarterback talent limping to the end, wobbly to the end, with the jets and the Giants without much of a market. And for the record, he was very good in his last 10 games. Don't kid yourself. With a really weak NFL coaching staff. Aaron Rodgers did a good job with The jets last 10 games. Where's the market? Whose fault is that? When you're a pain in the butt, this is what happens. When you're mostly committed, but not always in the off season, this is what you become. Reap what you sow. Who's scoring big in the NBA this season? You are. All the new ways to get in on the action at DraftKings Sportsbook, an official sports betting partner of the NBA slams dishing the ball, cleaning the glass. Get behind your favorite players. Prop bets you can make on DraftKings. It's fun. The home of NBA player props. If you're ready to place your first bet, make it really simple. Pick how many points your favorite player is going to score. Go to DraftKings Sportsbook. 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Make some noise for the Greatest Shooter of All time, Steph Curry. We went live from All Star Weekend for a new podcast called Goat Greatest of Their Era and we ranked our top five shooters from the 2000s.

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Peja 5 Dirk Ford.

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I left him off my list, but.

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You won't believe who Steph left off his list.

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That's so tough. That's why we have these conversations.

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Love it.

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Steph talked about what separates the truly elite NBA shooters.

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When you have a scouting report and you're on the list as not just a shooter, but we have specific rules for how we guard you, there's a fear factor that's associated with anytime you're wide open. Like, you might as well just count that and get on back on defense.

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We live in a divided country.

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Kinds of different people.

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Hi, my name is Venkat.

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All right, busy NBA docket. A lot to talk about. Jason Tempf, host of Hoops Tonight. All right, let's, let's start. LeBron will be fine. He'll be back in a week or two. I thought the bigger issue with the Lakers, Celtics, and I said this during the week on my show, is Boston's better. You can't come in missing starters. So no Jackson, no Rui. You're. That's length. That is length you can use to get, you know, anything near the rim, defend the rim. So when I heard that, I thought, no Jackson Hayes, no Rui Hachimora. This is going to be a tough one. But I also felt there's two things I want to talk about. Number one is I thought the Lakers looked tired in the second half. I thought they just gave you everything they had in the first half. One of the best first halfs of the NBA season. It was a great first half. Luga didn't play particularly well, but it was a great first half. And then I thought in the second half the Lakers ran out of gas. And if it was at home, maybe it's different. But I fly a lot, flying from LA to Boston. I don't care how good the seats are and how comfortable you are, it takes its toll. And the pace the Celtics play at. I thought it wore the Lakers down. So that's my, my first take. And you can address that before we get into the Luka Tatum stuff. Just, just the fact that no Jackson, Hayes, no Rui on the road, they played a pretty frenetic schedule. I mean, over the last couple of weeks, and I thought they ran out of gas.

[Sports Analyst]

Yeah, I, it was one of those things where I think there are some realities about this matchup that regardless of regular season, circumstances need to be factored in. Like, we're going to talk a lot about the top teams in the league today, and I don't think Boston is, like, separated from everybody in terms of, like, putting real distance, but I do think they deserve to be favored. And I think they've demonstrated that at several points this season in several different games. That said, within the context of that particular game, it was kind of interesting to me to see the juxtaposition of that one with the first time these two teams played. The first time these two teams played, the Lakers play, the Lakers played an excellent defensive game and Jalen Brown and Jason Tatum couldn't get anything going in the Lakers controlled this game. The Boston Celtics put together a beautiful defensive game and LeBron and Luca can't get anything going. And so there's this, this, these two teams in particular, by the way, I think there's a decent chance we see these two teams in the Finals. If these two teams face in the Finals, it's going to turn into this like relentless matchup hunting type of game. And it's all about Tatum and Brown going at Austin and Luca and then on the other end of the floor, LeBron and Luca going against Derrick White and Al Horford. And I think there were some mistakes last night. JJ Reddick talked a little bit about it after the game. Al Horford is a big body that slides his feet well and he has always done well against bully ball players. Even going back to Joel Embiid and Giannis Antenna Kumpo. Al Horford is some of the best reps against those guys that you'll see in the playoff context. LeBron and Luke are bully ball guys and Al Horford was just having none of it and he put together just a beautiful defensive game in that second half. They were much more deliberate about attacking the Celtics guards and you got to see how they can have some success. And that's really it. Like, like both of these teams, I actually think interestingly enough, these are the only two teams in the NBA that can put together five man groupings where you really can't leave anybody open. When Rui is healthy and Dorian finished is healthy and when the Celtics have Kristaps and Al Horford healthy, when they're healthy and put together like even the Knicks, you can help off of Josh Hart. Even like with the Thunder, you're going to give late contests to guys like Lou Dort that you're not super worried about. Yeah, these are the two teams that can truly space the floor in force you to play one on one. And if there was one defensive reality from the Lakers in this game, they've guarded really well when they can offer help from behind in their kind of swarming, switching defense. Boston, they really leave you on an island because if you help, it's like Luca got caught a bunch of Times in the first half of that game, helping in on drives, easy kickouts, and he was giving up threes. You cannot help with Boston, you cannot help with the Lakers. It turns into a one on one contest. And the Celtics just did a much better job of it in this particular matchup.

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You know, it's funny, I saw a piece of video. So I had said on the Luca trade, I would never have traded him, but if you gave me three firsts, AD and Austin Rivers, I'd sleep on it. And I said that because I've always said Luke is a much better Carmelo. I never think he's in great shape. I don't know. I think he sometimes takes the ball out of teammates hands. And you know, I don't think. And I love Luka, but I saw when Luka first arrived in Los Angeles, he looked puffy, hadn't played since December. He's never been in great shape. But my take was la get you in better shape. The lifestyle's different. And LeBron and the pressure, you know, to kind of impress LeBron. You can see Steph showing off with Jimmy Butler. LeBron's kind of showing off with Luke. I mean, it's just, it's ego, it's fun. You finally got your match. And the players, I mean, God, Steph is more efficient. LeBron's playing with an energy of a 27 year old. But somebody pointed this out to me yesterday because I watched the entire game. They said, look at the energy of Jason Tatum on both ends of the floor. And Luca has bad stretches right now. He has these four or five minute or longer moments on the floor and you're like, bro, you're just, you're a negative right now. Like, you're just, you're just getting beat off the ball. And do you think this is something, Luca? Because you're nodding your head, you're seeing it too. Does Luka play himself into better shape or did Dallas with their concerns about these consistent calf injuries, about not being in shape and lifestyle? Do you think we're getting 80% in Los Angeles of Luka that some of the videos on the Internet that show him three years ago, dude, he was tomahawking it. And you're like, not really quite what I see now. What is your take on where Luka's at and where he'll end up up as a Laker.

[Sports Analyst]

So that's a tough game for under any circumstances to go on the road in Boston, a Boston team that's had some disappointing losses at home this year and was and was kind of itching for. They. They were itching for a signature win. Like the Celtics really wanted that one. I mean, you could tell the. The level of intensity they brought right from the opening tip. It's a tough game under any circumstances. Luca is not yet back into his peak shape. It's going to take a little while to get there. I actually think it'll be somewhat. There's a little bit of a blessing in disguise with the LeBron injury because LeBron has been going full bore since like mid January. And it was kind of inevitable that there'd be some sort of nagging thing that would arise over the course of this stretch. And I actually think it'll be pretty nice for LeBron to get like a month off here, a couple weeks off here, just to take a little break before the. The postseason. That'll get more time for Luca to really lean into usage, to really lean into having the ball in his hands and build his rhythm back. That said, like, this goes back to the Dallas series. The Dallas series is a different type of challenge. The Dallas Boston series in the finals, it was a different type of challenge because Boston had all sorts of dudes that they could help off of. They were putting Chris Ops Porzingis onto P.J. washington and. And Derek Jones Jr. And leaving him under the basket. The Lakers will be able to create more space for him, but he wasn't even getting past Jaylen Brown for the most part last night. Like just one on one. Jalen Brown had him in clamps and was bringing a ton of physicality. And like there's this kind of recurring theme I've seen OG Anunoby did a little bit on Thursday night. I don't know if you caught the Knicks game. It was kind of a little bit similar in that game all the way back to the second round series with Oklahoma City. Last year, Lou Dort gave Luca some issues. Luca struggles with the really big and strong forwards that can guard. And so there's a little mini challenge here. If the Lakers are going to be able to defeat a team like Boston in the finals, Luka's gonna have to overcome the Jaylen Brown problem. But as far as the big picture goes, he's 25 years old. He's playing alongside one of the greatest work ethic dudes you're gonna meet in the league. One of the greatest, take care of your body type of dudes that you see in the league. I think Luka is going to get to a level of better conditioning. That said, I don't think he's going to be the dude who had like 17 dunks in his rookie year. I think those shit. I think that ship might have sailed.

[T-Mobile Representative]

Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's. It's interesting with the Celtics because Tatum played very well. And you know, I say this often on the show, that there's a real gap in them in what fans view as hate and what I view as contextualization. So every time I talk about Jayson Tatum, I always say he's great. He's a great player. He's a top eight player in the league. I don't believe he's top three. I trust SJ offensively more. I trust Jokic is all around better. I trust Giannis defensively more. I think Luka at his best is a better, more natural offensive player. Hell, if you gave me one quarter to win it all game seven, I'd take LeBron over Jayson Tatum. I actually would. But he's a great player. He's going to be a Hall of Famer. He's a nice kid. But I've said this. There are games where I'm like, where is he? Is he on the floor now? This was not one of them. He was terrific. And I've watched him now play live three or four times. I get to the arena early, he's the first guy on the floor. But it is interesting that people get very upset about this. And I've said this in the Olympics, when you're playing with the world's best players, he was a coach's decision, do not play against Serbia. And he had two in the gold medal game. And that LeBron and Steph flourished in those games. So there are players that sometimes when are around great players. LeBron was like this very early in his first Olympics. He was like, finally it opened up more of LeBron. And then there are players that actually love playing within a system. I think Jason is one of those players. I think his God, his DNA is he's a teammate. He likes being part of a collective. He chose Duke so he could play with other great players. Right. Like Krzyzewski makes you play defense. He was there with Grayson Allen, Luke Kennard, if I'm remembering right. So my take is I think he's a star. I think the NBA's only ever had three true faces of the league. Magic, Michael, LeBron. I think Bird was a reluctant because he was conjoined with Magic. He was facing the league, but Magic was the face of the league. He loved it. You know, French Lick, Indiana, pimples on the face. Grumpy Larry Bird didn't feel face of the league, but you know, you join him at the hit with Magic and it's like, okay. And Shaq and Kobe, I think you could argue as a pair, were face of the league for several years. Duncan never was. Akeem never was. Karl Malone never was. So what do you make of kind of my criticism of Tatum? It's not a criticism. It's more like, listen, at any one time, the NBA has two faces or one face of the league, two global stars, and about 15 other stars. Carmelo Anthony. Guys, is that unrealistic to say?

[Sports Analyst]

No. I mean, I, I heard your rant about Jason Tatum and frankly, like, there is, there is truth to the fact that Tatum lacks like, the traditional NBA aura. Right? Like, he's a good dunker, but he's not Vince Carter. He's a good shooter, but he's not Kevin Durant. He's big and strong, but he's not LeBron. He's a good playmaker, but he's not Luka Doncic. He's a good defender, but he's not what Kawhi Leonard was in his prime. And he doesn't really have a very big personality. So, like, it's really hard to like, put together, you know, something specific about Jason Tatum to like, market it really well as far as like face of the league type of stuff. That said, like, he's really good at all of those things still. Yes. And so he's become like, just by virtue of him being a jack of all trades, he's become one of the most useful players in the entire NBA. This has kind of been the interesting trajectory of Jason Tatum's career. If you go back in the early years in like 18, 19, 20, in those years, Tatum was like, like, projected to be one of the best shooting forwards in the league. He had some unbelievable jump shooting seasons during that stretch. Then what happened was, is he started to bulk up and he got really big and strong and it greatly improved his defensive versatility. He improved as a playmaker. But in that stretch, 20, 21, 20, 22, 23, 24, his jump shot fell apart and became super unreliable to the point where it was like, sometimes it goes in, sometimes it doesn't. They'll have 50 in a playoff game, you'll have 17 in a playoff game. You know, like, it, it became one of those things where he couldn rely on the jump shot. Honestly, I think the Team USA situation right off of the heels of last year's playoff run, as he Shot very poorly in the playoffs on jump shots. And then he shot, what, over 16 with Team USA. I think he got humiliated and spent the entire summer in the gym. And he's added like a reliable jump shot to the Swiss army knife that he already was. And now it's one of those things where, like, I agree with you, I think Jokic is better. I think Giannis is better, I think Shay's better. I think Luka Doncic is better. I think if you asked, like, league average role players alongside all those players, I think Tatum is behind those guys. But I do think he's closer to that tier or in that tier at the bottom, as opposed to the next set of guys. Like, when you look at the next set of guys, like, I think Tatum brings more on a night in, night out basis than Anthony Davis does. I think Tatum brings more on a night in, night out basis than that next tier of guys. Kevin Durant, LeBron James, Steph Curry. I think he deserves credit for being like a foundational, like, reliable, you can count on this dude type of superstar. But I also think everything you said regarding, he does not have a flashpoint in his skill set. There's nothing like that. There's not one thing about that.

[T-Mobile Representative]

You, you can close your eyes. I've said this, and I can think of like five, Michael plays, six, LeBron plays a bunch of Magic Bird. You close your eyes with Tatum and you're like, it's like, Carl Malone. I don't have a Karl Malone play. I don't have a Duncan play. There is something about the Persona, the aura, the imagery that is face of the league. Okay, So I watch most of the Nuggets Thunder game. I missed the first quarter, but Shea went off for 40. Of course, this week, Jokic had a, you know, a 30, 20, 20 plus game. Right? I think it was the first time ever in league history to somebody to do that. So I love Jokic. I thought he should have won three straight. Embiid was sort of gifted one. But I'll tell you why I would give it to sga. I'd give it to Shay. So I've said this on many occasions. Words matter. You can get in trouble for the wrong word, but you have to watch the words. It's most valuable. Now. Production is a huge component to value, right? Like, valuable is. I mean, I always say this. Moms are usually the most valuable person in a house. Dad may make more. The kids may have a brighter future. Mom's the mvp. She's the glue, and she's super productive. Right. Like, at least in my house, mom was the most valuable player, dad, my dad was the local optometrist. He paid the bills. So Jokic, you can argue, is more productive. Okay. But he's playing with Gordon Porter, Jamal Murray and a coach that's got a ring thanks to Jokic. SGA, and this is about 15% of it, is a better defender. SGA plays with a roster that is so young, it only averages one year older than the Auburn Tigers roster. So he is playing with kids and that matters. They're still figuring out how to play basketball. Not to mention Chet Holm can, you know, has been out for a while. I mean, you can argue outside of Shea, nobody else on that roster, none of their best offensive players have even hit their prime yet. So. And that's one of the reasons I worry about them in the playoffs, winning big road games with this young roster. So based on the fact that his production isn't Jokic, but it's damn good, he's a better defender, he's carrying a younger roster and didn't have homegrown for a spell, I would narrowly give Shay the mvp. What say you?

[Sports Analyst]

So I actually think Shea has a decent sized lead. Um, it really. Let's just get to the, the foundational piece of the case. He's 12 games ahead of Denver in the standings. 12, that's.

[T-Mobile Representative]

That matters.

[Sports Analyst]

That's an enormous gap between those two teams. And so when you start to make a case for Jokic, it needs to be overwhelmed. And there are some things with Jokic that I think are realities. I think Jokic is a better basketball player than Shay. Gilders, Alexander, same. I think Denver would fall apart more than OKC would fall apart if the two players were removed. But that's never been the way that we've given mvp. It's never been sheer value in a vacuum. It's never been who's the guy that we think is the best player for a 16 win playoff run. Right. That's never been the way we've done it. It's always been a combination of a bunch of factors. Team success, your individual value, like your reputation in the league. There's always been a narrative element that's. It's. Regardless of how we want to pretend, like it should be factored in. It does get factored in. There's narrative, there's momentum, there's all of that kind of stuff. It's kind of like the Jokic 30, 20, 20 game. It's like, well, here we are, 2/3 of the Way through the season, Jokic puts together a stat line that's never happened in NBA history. Hey, let's revisit this thing. Even though the Thunder have been consistently a better basketball team this year, I think two things. One, Shay's having a much better offensive season than people are giving him credit for. You mentioned the youth. The youth for the Thunder manifests in inconsistency. J Dub is an incredible player. He is what, 22 or he's. He's young, he's super inconsistent. Chet, incredible player. He's young, he's going to make mistakes. He's not a guy that's super dependable night in, night out. He shot 20 something percent from three in the series against Dallas last year. Shay is the grown up in the room. Shay is the night to night guy. So many of these games break down for Thunder, for the Thunder against good teams in particular. So many of these games break down where it looks like every single Thunder player is uncomfortable. And a little bit like, a little bit like, like kind of shying away from the moment and Shea has to grab the reins and like control things. And like as Chet's been out of the lineup a bunch this year as J Dub has had a down shooting season and he's coming on as of late, but he's had a down shooting season. Shay's been carrying him through that. Shea has been the guy that has lifted their elite defense to the point where they can win games. And so I think he deserves more credit than that. The second piece of it is a reality with Denver. Denver has lost a lot of games this year because they can't guard.

[T-Mobile Representative]

Oh, and at all.

[Sports Analyst]

And Jokic, for the record in the 2023 postseason, had a very good playoff run. Defensively. He is capable of having good moments on defense. However, there's a simple reality with Jokic that causes a lot of problems for Denver's defense. He cannot switch onto perimeter players and he can't play on his heels back at the rim because guys just jump right over him and go around him. That forces Jokic to come out to the level of ball screens and put two on the ball. So Denver persistently exists in rotation. They persistently exist in four on threes. That's how the sun score on them so easily. That's how the Lakers scored on them so easily. That is the problem that they consistently run into is Jokic has to come up to the level. When he comes up to the level, it's a simple pocket pass or skip pass and they're playing four on three out of it and they just haven't been very good defensively this year on the back line, rotating out of it. And so they just haven't been as good. Good. Their defense is bad. Jokic is a significant part of that. I think that gets factored into this debate. And so when I really look at it in the big picture, there's not enough for yic, even though I think he's having an unbelievable season, arguably the best offensive season ever. But if you look at it, it's not enough to justify that 12 game gap in the standings and then to tie things up, shay just dropped 40 on him today as they got a win.

[T-Mobile Representative]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I think we're on the same page.

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[Podcast Host]

Make some noise for the greatest shooter of all time, Steph Curry. We went live from All Star Weekend to our new podcast podcast called Goat Greatest of Their Era and we ranked our top five shooters from the 2000s.

[Podcast Guest]

Peja 5 Dirk Ford Paja is a little madam.

[T-Mobile Representative]

I left him off my list, but I still like my list.

[Podcast Host]

You won't believe who Steph left off his list.

[Podcast Guest]

That's so tough. That's why we have these conversations. Love it.

[Podcast Host]

Steph talked about what separates the truly elite NBA shooters.

[Podcast Guest]

When you have a scouting report and you're on the list as not just a shooter, but we have specific rules for how we guard you. There's a fear factor that's associated with anytime you're wide open like you Might as well just count that and get on back on defense.

[Podcast Host]

Listen to Goat G O T e greatest of their era on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jeremy Hobson]

We live in a divided country.

[T-Mobile Representative]

I am a lifelong Republican with all.

[Jeremy Hobson]

Kinds of different people.

[T-Mobile Representative]

You know, I'm a mother, I'm a grandmother.

[Jeremy Hobson]

That's why we started the Middle with Jeremy Hobson. It's about bringing voices not from the extremes, but from the vast middle into the national conversation.

[Sports Analyst]

Anna, I'm calling from Las Vegas.

[Jeremy Hobson]

Each week we bring together an all star panel. Mark Cuban, so great to have you on the Middle.

[T-Mobile Representative]

Thanks for having me, Jeremy.

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Neil Degrasse Tyson, welcome to the Middle.

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Thanks for having me.

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And hear from ordinary Americans from all over the country on the most important issues.

[Sports Analyst]

Hi, my name is Venkat.

[T-Mobile Representative]

I'm calling you from Atlanta, Georgia.

[Jeremy Hobson]

And when you subscribe to the Middle, you also get an episode each week called One Thing Trump did that focuses on just one item from the avalanche of news.

[Sports Analyst]

We should be examining what our government spends its money on and are these jobs necessary and what are we doing here?

[T-Mobile Representative]

But that doesn't seem to be what.

[Sports Analyst]

We'Re doing in this situation.

[Jeremy Hobson]

Listen to the Middle with Jeremy Hobson on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[T-Mobile Representative]

And now for our next segment, whiskey business brought to you by Green River Whiskey, the official whiskey of the Colin Cowherd podcast. If you want to enjoy life's simple pleasures, reach for Green River Whiskey. Whether it's rye whiskey, single barrel bourbon, you're getting over a century of craftsmanship packed into every bottle. Hop on over to greenriverwhisky.com and discover legend in a bottle today. You know, it's. God, I would have. I thought a month before it happened, I said, warriors, just get Jimmy Butler. I don't care what analytics say. Steph is sleepwalking. And I remember saying Butler's the anti Wiggins. Like every possession is intentional, totally intense. Everything's a street fight. I always thought Wiggins was talented. Little passive, you know, you didn't know possession of possession if he was engaged. I think we talked about this last time, so I thought Butler would be a big help. It is amazing. They're 11 and 2 since Jimmy Butler arrived. What's interesting now, if you start looking at their playoff position, they could end up against Houston, which I think's the dream scenario for Golden State because Houston can't shoot like that's the team you want to play a young team that struggles shooting, you can beat Golden State. You know, they, they don't have a ton of offensive firepower from the perimeter outside of step pods a little bit, but when you watch the warriors, it's really interesting. Oklahoma City again is a tremendous defensive team, but I don't trust them. Ok. See in a big road playoff game, they're too young. I think Golden State has a lower ceiling but an incredibly high floor. And I think outside of maybe a Cleveland, Boston could go seven games with almost anybody. Is, is there a team? Hmm, let's just, let's just look ahead. Is there a team the warriors would not want to face in the west in the playoffs that you just don't think is a good matchup at all?

[Sports Analyst]

Oh, that's an interesting question because Dallas.

[T-Mobile Representative]

If healthy would be tough with Gafford lively ad their center rotation is great. They're a big team and I could see that team slowing it down and being just a handful for the warriors, but I think they're going to go into a soft tank here and just keep everybody out. I don't think it's a terrible idea. So Minnesota, if they had the Twin Towers, you know, if they had Cat and Go Bear, could be problematic. But I sort of look at the West, I'm like, I don't know, is there a team?

[Sports Analyst]

I think they're going to get out of the plan. It's been really fascinating just how immediately good they've been and it's been kind of like a, kind of a proof of concept for me about roster balance. Just like no matter what you're doing, if you ever ask somebody to do too much, they're going to be inefficient, they're going to start making mistakes. And there were so many role players for that team that were being asked to do so much more than they're doing now because there was no Jimmy and Jimmy's come in and just like crystallize everyone's roles and everyone just has consistent minutes in the rotation now and everything's coming together for them. They're going to get out of the plan. In my opinion, if that's the case, it's the team that I would want to face if I was. Golden State is a team that they can load up on defensively and so I think a team like Denver, if they got the 6, 3 matchup against a team like Denver, that'd be good. Memphis is an another team like that. That is a poor spot up team that they could load the pain up on the Other thing I like we talked about earlier with being able to bring Jokic up to the level. Steph is that guy. Steph is the guy that will consistently get Denver's defense into rotation and now they have Jimmy Butler to be the guy that kind of helps pay off those sequences as he's been so good in the middle of the floor this year. I think yeah, I would lean towards if I was. The problem with The Lakers is LeBron and Luka will just hunt their small guards all day long in space and I think that that could be a problem for them. And the Laker defense like we talked about earlier, is keyed up on the ability to help off of people and there are a couple guys for Golden State that they feel like they can help off of. So I think Denver, if they got into that six spot, I'd be looking at if Denver slipped to the three as a potential matchup that they could upset. Houston and Memphis to me are both gettable. I look at it as, I don't know about how you feel Colin, but I think there's a five team inner circle. I think it's Boston and Cleveland out east and I think it's okc, Denver and the Lakers out west. I think those five teams are the like if those five teams are the teams that have substantial chances to win the championship behind that, all of those teams I think are pretty heavily flawed. Golden State has been really good since the Jimmy Butler trade, but they've played a relatively light schedule. So I'd like to see a little bit more before I decide where they kind of fit into all of this. Like the Lakers, Lakers before they beat, before they lost to Boston, they beat 14 straight. 500 or better teams like that. That's how good the Lakers were playing before that Celtics game. I, I'm not going to bail on them because they flew across the country after a bunch of, after a single.

[T-Mobile Representative]

Schedule in Los Angeles and missing and missing two of their longest players.

[Sports Analyst]

Yeah, two vitally important starters, their vertical spacer and Jackson. Hate like how, how often did you see Jared Vanderbilt catch the ball under the basket yesterday with no idea what to do because he can't finish over any anybody. But like that that's the thing. Like I, I, I, I kind of have a feeling that the Lakers are one of the inner circle teams because I've just seen them be so good for so long against so many good teams. I want to see a little bit more like from Golden State because I do think they can enter into that group but I Just want to see a little bit more from them. But I think between Denver and la, I'd want to play Denver if I was them.

[T-Mobile Representative]

You know, I was thinking about this topic. I didn't do it on TV because I didn't know if it was worthy. Stephen A. Smith. LeBron James had that interaction, right? And you know, it's funny, I've always been a fan of LeBron and I know Stephen A. I text him twice recently. I former teammate over at ESPN and I'm always sensitive. I'm glad my son and daughter did not choose broadcasting. I wouldn't want them to be compared to their dad. And if they got criticized, my take is, well, you got into this business. So, you know, my first reaction is Bronnie James is a Laker because Clutch Sports and LeBron James made sure everybody knew we want him to be a Laker. He was not a dominant college player. In fact, his size and skill set is really not that of an NBA player. He's 62 but not a point guard, not a lot of 62 off guards in NBA history. And right now he's not shooting particularly well. He's athletic, he's a good kid. SM I think he was draftable. It was one of the weaker drafts. I defended the Lakers drafting him. A great draft. Maybe not in this draft, which was one of the weaker draft. About every fourth or fifth NBA draft. You know, this, this draft coming up is very domestic and very, very interesting. At the top there's some really good players from great programs. Last year was an international draft and a lot of projecting, didn't have a problem being draft. You know, it was a bit of a flex for Clutch Sports and LeBron to get him in LA. Kind of a power flex. And again, you're making 8 million bucks. You are wedged into an organization that probably in most years wouldn't have drafted a player of your skill level. I tend to defend journalists having the right to opinions and people say, well, here's one of the things where I think LeBron James in his mind is doing the right thing. Don't badmouth my son. But I've seen many broadcasters get their kids into broadcasting and their kids aren't very good. Some are, some are not. And that's the reality of a public facing job. Mayor, basketball player, sportscaster. You know, you're not, you know, you're not, you know, this is not a job that's, you know, you write annuities or you're in waste management. Like everybody knows his name. So my take Is listen, Yep, you have an 8 million contract. You're fair game, right? That's the way it goes. But you played basketball. No, LeBron, his kind of ideology, the way he thinks. What was your sort of take on it?

[Sports Analyst]

You know, it's interesting I've been thinking so much about this over the course of the last couple of weeks because it's a dynamic that I relate to to a certain extent. I remember like when I was playing at Arizona Christian when I was in naia. I remember like watching a broadcast of a game and I was having a brutal shooting season when I was in college. This was the one. This was the season that I had worst 3 point shooting season. It was, I was in my head, I was in this like, small role where I was doing, taking all these catch and shoot threes out of the corner. And I was just having a brutal offensive season. And so I was struggling with it. And I heard this announcer who was announcing one of the games, like talking junk about me in the broadcast. And I remember getting like super upset about it because I'm like, I'm taking 300 shots a day. I'm doing everything I can to fix this problem. And this like, dude who has no idea what I'm doing is criticizing the way that I'm playing. And like, I think about that a lot from NBA players where, where I get it. Like I. Me relative to an NBA player, even as someone who played me relative to an NBA player, I don't, I don't have the cachet or the, or the, the reputation to be able to criticize the greatest basketball players in the world. And so on a certain level, I sympathize with the plight. But then what you said is the, is the most, the most important context there. We chose a career that exists in the public view.

[T-Mobile Representative]

You.

[Sports Analyst]

I have a relatively small platform among the, the big shots in, in the media world. I deal with a ton of negativity every day. I can't even imagine what you deal with. We won't even go there. But there's just this outrageous amount of negativity. To your point, Colin, like, I'm living the dream. I love my job. I love the flexibility that I have. I love that I get to talk about the game of basketball. This, this opportunity that you have given me has changed my life infinitely for the better. And so I would never sit there and hyper focus on this like, specific part of my job that's negative because it's just so worth it. And like, and that's really what it comes down to is like, from the NBA players perspective, it's just the reality of the predicament that they're in. They have this wonderful life that comes from being a professional basketball player, but it comes with this criticism. The second piece of it is, to me, the criticism is authentic and necessary. And I was thankful in LeBron's tweet thread that he included in there, like, hey, when players fail, we need to discuss it. And I'm so glad he said that, because here's the thing. Sports are nasty. They're mean, they're violent. You talk shit. You step on each other to get to the finish line. It is inherently nasty, and there's a winner and a loser. And in order for us to discuss the winner and the loser, it inherently requires us to be critical from time to time. It is part of the job. If we came on every day and we just only said nice things about players, we'd have no credibility. There's a certain amount of this to where we. It makes it mean more when we say a player succeeds if we also criticize them when they fail. My thing with it is, like, just make sure you're doing your homework. Like, if you're going to criticize someone, make sure it's based in. In. In the homework. You know what I mean? Because I get a certain point, if you're just talking shit, to talk shit. Now we're entering down a darker path. But I found this really fascinating because on one hand, I relate to players, but on the other hand, like, this is just the reality of the situation that we're in.

[T-Mobile Representative]

Yeah, that's why I asked you. Yeah. Because you played college basketball. And I've tried to never make it personal. Although, like I said for years about Carmelo Anthony, I'm like, man, if you're not willing to play defense, James Harden, I felt the same way. You're not a great teammate. Because defense is effort. Offense is a lot of skill. It's a lot of fun. Playing defense sucks. It's hard. So what you're basically saying, if you won't defend. And I feel this about Luca, is, yeah, I'm kind of above that. Well, the other 10 guys aren't. So I've always thought when players don't commit to the defensive end, I think less of them. And you're kind of, you know, you're kind of sending a message to teammates, hey, you do that, I'll do the fun part. And so that's one of the reasons I've always respected LeBron is his defense in the last 20 games. Jesus. It doesn't even make sense for a 40 year old, so. And I've always been a huge LeBron fan and I actually supported the Lakers drafting Brawny. I supported Bronnie playing in that game so that father son record could be set. I'm for it. I was a little critical when he had one good, really nice G League game and they quickly moved him up, you know, to the Lakers. And I'm like, guys, now you're asking me as a broadcaster to lie to the audience, and I'm not going to do that, is that he's not an NBA player. He may work himself into a, you know, eighth, ninth guy in a roster. And I'm rooting for that because I really do think Savannah and LeBron have done a wonderful job considering this generational wealth. They're good people, they're grounded, as much as you can be if you're Ronaldo Messi, LeBron Brady. Right. Like you just kind of bake in some of this shit. Ain't normal. Right. So it's just interesting. You know, I think the audience wants me to have definitive takes and take a side. But I think Stephen A. Smith does have a right to be honest about Bronnie. But I also get the dad part. But I do come back to listen the minute you made that decision to wedge Bronnie onto the Lakers. The most sacred part, part of sports is the uniform. You gave somebody a uniform and many question whether he is uniform worthy at the NBA level. Like, you can say what you want, that owners do and GMs do, but that uniform, in any sport, that is what makes grown men cry. They work 20 years to wear an NBA uniform. Hell, it can be a 10 day contract, man, if you get 10 days in the NBA for the rest of your life. Life, I was an NBA player. And so when you get somebody to put that jersey on for the Los Angeles Lakers, there are going to be some animosity. There are people going to say, wait a minute, time out now, come on now. And so it's one of those. I know I'm supposed to take a side on this. And I've said this to people privately. I don't talk about this. That the Ukraine, Putin, Zelensky, Russia, United States, States. It's way more complicated. I've watched more video on that story in the last six months than everything except sports. There's a lot of complexity with NATO and the history of Russia and US and sometimes if I'm ever critical of the media, social media, has made simplicity the go to apparatus. And I think BRONNY Stephen A. LeBron, I think it's complicated. I think there's the dad thing, there's the history thing, there's the journalist thing. And I hated to see it because I love LeBron and I really like Stephen A. Smith. I like them both. They're really good at what they do. And I know that's considered a soft pedal, but that's how I feel about it.

[Sports Analyst]

You know, it's so fascinating because you're asking people to just bring a little bit of nuance into the discussion with the LeBron Stephen A. Smith thing, and there's just nothing. It's. There's none of it. Yeah, there's like this huge anti LeBron, he's ruining Bronnie's life kind of angle, and then there's the Stephen A. SMITH Step to LeBron. And now he's getting. Now LeBron's getting in his face and he's paying the price for his actions. And I, I'm sitting there and I'm like, I'm reading. I'm doing the lip reading when I'm watching LeBron and he's saying, like, like, keep my son out of this. And to your point, on a very basic level, Bronnie is an NBA player with a large profile. He's going to get discussed like, there's no universe where he's not going to be criticized like that.

[T-Mobile Representative]

Like, and played at USC and Sierra Canyon. He was a high profile high school player.

[Sports Analyst]

Exactly. And like, and so, like, to me, it's like, on a very basic level, we have to acknowledge Stephen A's right to discuss Bronnie. Like, like, that's just, that's, that's, that's very. To me, that's a very simple part. Part of it. But there. Then there's another reality, which is like, okay, LeBron probably feels like Stephen A's used him a little bit like a punching bag over the course of the last, you know, year or two. And I think LeBron's sick of it and he's lashing out. So on one hand, I'm like, okay, I also support LeBron's right to confront Stephen A. And be like, hey, dude, what the heck? But, like, the specific point he decided to argue regarding his son, it is. It's hypocritical because to your point, as soon as you elevate Bronnie to this level, how could you possibly hope to protect him from that type of criticism? It's part of the deal You've dealt with it. LeBron. LeBron, you are the most polarizing player in NBA history. You know this.

[T-Mobile Representative]

Let me add something else that I think, again, is nuanced. One of the reasons I've always been so impressed with LeBron James, he didn't grow up with a father. Okay. It's pretty understood that both parents can, over the course of time, be very beneficial to any child who then becomes an adult. LeBron James has stayed out of trouble, and he did not have that guiding, strong hand of a father. And yet, you would never know it. He's been a terrific father, a terrific husband, a wonderful businessman. He is such a good friend. I know two of LeBron's friends. LeBron's a great friend. And could I argue that LeBron takes so much pride in being a father because he did not have that at home, that he is going to err on the side of overprotective? And I'm going to defend the hell out of LeBron for that. Right. Like, I'm sorry now, again, I. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm too sympathetic. And my dad wasn't always around, but he was around enough that I had a dad, and he was the local town optometrist, and I was very proud. And he gave me multiple moments of wisdom and advice and a spanking or two when I turned the sprinkler on as he was trying to move it, and thwack, quack, thwack, twack, quack, hit my dad as he had his white doctor jacket on, heading to work, and was soaked and had to go back inside. I got spanked that day. I was laughing hysterically for a while. So I have these moments in my life where my father had a great impact. I mean, I was talking to a friend the other day about a moment that my dad said something when he was, like, I was 12 years old and has been with me my entire life. And so maybe I'm just being too overly sympathetic, but LeBron didn't have a father at home. And if he's erring on the side of, hey, man, man, I protect my family. This is it for me, man. This is a bubble that I am gonna. If I'm erring on the side of overprotective, I got LeBron's back on that. And that's the kind of stuff I think of as somebody that's divorced. Six kids are in my life. How do I be a step parent? I think about all that stuff. Maybe I'm too old and protective, but I think it's more complex than Stephen A's a bad guy and LeBron's a good guy. And it's just, that's not the way life is. Right.

[Sports Analyst]

No, I agree. And, and to your point, like, there's the, the motivating factor is something that all parents can relate to. It kind of goes back to what we were talking about, just in overall player criticism. Just because the player is being unrealistic about the realities of his profession and the fact that criticism comes with that profession, it doesn't make it like, I also relate to that player when he pushes back and when the player goes like, like today Kevin Durant tweeted at Skip Bayless, like, I also understand the reason why he might want to clap back. Even though Kevin Durant should be realistic about the fact that he's one of the greatest players of all time.

[T-Mobile Representative]

Tell me, tell me.

[Sports Analyst]

Yeah, so basically, Skip Bayless said that Kevin Durant looks like he's already mentally retired. And K. KD tweeted at him and said, I guess that means both of us are washed.

[T-Mobile Representative]

By the way, I watched that game. Katie had 21, nine and eight.

[Sports Analyst]

He was pretty good. Katie's been awesome this year. Like, the Sun's issues are like entirely organizational. KD is, I think if someone gets KD this, this summer, he's going to walk right in and help a team win a title or at least get him close. Like, he's so good. He's so good.

[T-Mobile Representative]

Oh, he's so good. He. I would love to sit down and break bread with Kevin Durant. I really love the guy. I think he's such a fun player. I like everything about him. I hated him leaving golden, but I. He's such a unique all time player. I love Kevin Durant. I love watching him play. I love, I like his quirky personality. Jason Temp, host of Hoops Tonight. This was fantastic. I had some NFL news before you, but this was really good. Let me throw this out there, folks. The Steelers are going to sign DK Metcalf to a five year, $150 million contract. I'm just telling you I wouldn't do it. And I like DK Metcalf. That is way too much money for a wide receiver, especially for an organization that can't figure offense. As always, Jason, your money. Thanks, buddy.

[Sports Analyst]

It was good to see you, Colin. Looking forward to next time.

[T-Mobile Representative]

The Volume. This is Nikki Glazer from the Nikki Glazer Podcast. On a more serious note, I'm still thinking about that commercial with Tom Brady and Snoop Dogg hating on each other. Because when you listen to the reasons for hating someone or something, you realize just how stupid they really are. There is too much hate in this country and it's gotta stop. So join us at iHeart in standing up to it. If you see hate, speak up, call it out, and you can learn more by following OTs upwithhate make some noise.

[Podcast Host]

For the Greatest Shooter of All Time, Steph Curry. We went live from All Star Weekend for a new podcast called Goat Greatest of Their Era, and we ranked our top five shooters from the 2000s major five.

[Podcast Guest]

Dirt work for Asia is a okay.

[Podcast Host]

You won't believe who Steph left off his list.

[Podcast Guest]

That's so tough. That's why we have these conversations.

[Podcast Host]

Yes, absolutely.

[Podcast Guest]

Love it.

[Podcast Host]

Listen to Go G O T E Greatest of Their era on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up everyone? It's Greg Rosenthal, and I'm teaming up with the King of Spring, Daniel Jeremiah. He requires me to say that we're going to be bringing you 40s and free agents, the only podcast cast you'll need this NFL draft season. From DJs, mock drafts to my top 101, free agents will have it covered for you with all new episodes every Thursday keeping you up to date as we head to the NFL Draft. Listen to 40s and free agents starting on March 6th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Jeremy Hobson]

We live in a divided country, and our media couldn't be more polarizing. That's why we started the Middle with Jeremy Hobson. It's about bringing voices not from the extremes, but from the vast middle into the national conversation. Each week we hear from ordinary Americans from all over the country, and when you subscribe to the Middle, you also get an episode each week called One Thing Trump did that focuses on just one item from the avalanche of news. Listen to the Middle with Jeremy Hobson on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.