← The Herd with Colin Cowherd
The Herd with Colin Cowherd
Colin Cowherd Podcast - Inside Buffalo Bills Hidden Drama: Josh Allen, Sean McDermott, Chiefs Rivalry
00:43:43
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- [00:00]
Colin Cowherd
This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human new year.
- [00:06]
Tyler Dunn
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- [00:52]
Colin Cowherd
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- [01:21]
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- [01:55]
Tyler Dunn
With a big game coming up, we're all about enjoying the moment without paying for it the next day. Whether I'm hosting, friends, jamming, cheering from the couch, heading to a watch party, I wanna be fully present and still feel good in the morning. For me, that means planning ahead, especially if I'm gonna have a few drinks. My simple trick Start the night with ZBiotics Pre alcohol ZBiotics Pre alcohol Probiotic drink. The world's first genetically engineered probiotic. It was invented by PhD scientists to tackle rough mornings after drinking. Here's how it works. When you drink, alcohol gets converted into a toxic byproduct in the gut. It's a buildup of this byproduct, not dehydration. That's actually to blame for rough days after drinking. So pre alcohol produces an enzyme to break this byproduct down. Just remember to make pre Alcohol your first drink of the night. Drink responsibly. You'll feel your best tomorrow if you're planning to enjoy the big game without sacrificing your productivity the next day. ZBiotics pre alcohol as you cover, start your night with Pre alcohol. Wake up ready to show up for work the next day. Go to ZBiotics.com pre alpha Colin 15% off your first order. If you use Colin at checkout backed by 100% money back guarantee, no risk. Subscriptions are also available. For maximum consistency. Go to zbiotics.com Colin use my name at checkout. 15% off. Will I brought him on the herd. He won our first ever Big J Journalism award. I think we retired it after he won it. We've never handed out a second. He is the founder of Go Long. One of the first guys in sports to really jump over to substack and be his own man. I love that about him. And one of the teams that he has really been really at ground zero, a foundational reporter and has pushed back on this franchise many times. They have had a wild last four weeks. You don't think of Buffalo and controversy. You think of New York and controversy and Philadelphia and Boston. But Buffalo's just, you know, it's quiet, it's upstate. So let's start with a press conference today where Terry, the owner, Pegula, basically calls out Keon Coleman. I just kept thinking, man, for a billionaire, that's not a ton of self awareness. You were at the press conference. Basically, he was defending Billy Beane, who was sitting next to him, who's taking a ton of criticism for his draft record, which is not stellar. Okay, let's, let's start with a press conference. Was it awkward when Terry went off script to defend Billy Bean?
- [04:30]
Colin Cowherd
You know, it was uncomfortable. It was awkward. It was something that you never see in sports, right? Owners, general managers, head coaches, they never bring you inside publicly like that and say, no, this person wanted that player. That person wanted that player. I'll be honest, Colin. I loved the honesty. I love the transparency. I, I, I'm not in pr. It probably isn't the best PR move because that's pretty avoidable if you're the Buffalo Bills. Like, you just don't need to bring that up if, if you want that information out there, there's people like me you can tell. Off the record, all these people in all sports know that. But I, to me, what I kept thinking of is, all right, the one person who has control over this is Keon Coleman. The only reason he's being framed as a bust is because he has been a boss two years in.
- [05:24]
Tyler Dunn
Yeah.
- [05:24]
Colin Cowherd
I mean, he's showing up late to meetings twice. He's getting into Sean McDermott's doghouse. I will say this. I was told it wasn't necessarily Sean McDermott who drafted Keon Coleman. It was coaches on the staff. But, yeah, Brandon Bean, it puts him in a tough spot where he's sitting there like, all right, well, we're going into year three with this guy. We don't want to give up on this guy. He later made a point to say, look, I drafted him. We all drafted him. At that point, it's kind of out there. But to me, you know what this conference was, Colin. Truth bombs left and right. And the truth hurts for Keon Coleman. I'm sorry if feelings are hurt. More production. Sean McDermott. They praised him for his nine years of service. At the end of the day, it's been a decade with arguably the best player in the league, and what do you have to show for it? To me, that was the biggest takeaway from this press conference. At one point, Terry Pula is looking at all of us and basically look into the entire city of Buffalo. Say it is seven years in a row of making the playoffs. Is that success? Is that success? And no super bowl appearance. He's basically asking everybody, if you want to get to the playoffs and lose. We've done that. Do we want to win a Super Bowl? Do we want something more? Then you got to move on. Look, I mean, one stat I'll give you, too, is I. I've been repeating it nonstop and go long, but teams move on from head coaches at this point for a reason. You know, he's entering year 10. There's only been three head coaches, really two who have won their first Super bowl in year nine or beyond. With. With that team, Bill Cower, Tom Landry, Hank Strand, and Hank Strand won an AFL title before that. So you know the list of the Marty Schottenheimers and Marvin Lewis's and Bart Starrs and Wayne Fonts and Marv Levy's. It's much, much longer. It was overdue. If you.
- [07:18]
Tyler Dunn
Yeah, let's.
- [07:19]
Colin Cowherd
Let's.
- [07:20]
Tyler Dunn
There was a feeling in Buffalo, and I've said this with Brandon Bean, I did some sourcing on it. I called a couple of GMs I respect. I said, what do you know about him? Because I don't know him, nor do I have any. Even a text relationship. And they said, he's really good with a cap. He's not necessarily known as an elite John Snyder level, like what you would say, personnel guy, doesn't mean he can't do it. For the record, it's really hard. Drafting is really hard. The best whiff, I mean, you know, the Rams have whiffed on second rounders, the Niners have. It's hard. So there is no, there's no exact science to guessing how a 22 year old will work. I mean, Keon Coleman, Florida to Buffalo, just the weather alone. You know, it's like, wow, that, that's a different. He probably never been to Buffalo before, right? Like a lot of these kids. But what is the sense, is it fair to say Since Josh Allen, 55 draft picks, two Pro Bowlers, is it fair, is that a fair criticism that he has struggled in the draft? Or do you see personnel as he's been reasonably solid like most GMs, hits and misses?
- [08:33]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah, you know what, that's a great question because I think everybody's asking that same exact question right now. Because who's at fault here, right? Is it the head coach or the GM for why this team, forget winning a Super bowl, hasn't gotten to a Super bowl, right?
- [08:48]
Tyler Dunn
No.
- [08:48]
Colin Cowherd
No head coach has won more playoff games without a Super bowl appearance than Sean McDermott, 8. No quarterback has won more playoff games without a Super bowl appearance than Josh Allen, 8. So, like, who's at fault here? People that I talk to around the league, they believe this has been a championship roster year in and year out, that they should have won in 20, 21, 13 seconds. And we can get into that because I really do believe that was the moment that probably broke the psychology of the Buffalo bills under Sean McDermott. And I mean, you've got seasons other than that you can point to and say that they had enough talent to win it all. And I think, look, Brandon Bean was the driving force behind the move up the draft board for Josh Allen. So Terry Pula remembers that. And then if you fast forward to this year, you've got the reigning MVP, you've got the NFL's leading rusher and James Cook, you've got a top five offensive line and the defense, right? You've got a defensive minded head Coach and Sean McDermott and you look at these playoff losses in the last six playoff losses and we could really kind of point to that as when the Bills have been legitimate super bowl contenders, right? Because they get The Jacksonville in 2017, they end the drought 2019, Josh Allen's in year two, they lost in the wild card to the Texans in overtime. Blew it 16 and nothing lead that game. But let's look at those six with a defensive minded head coach. Colin 52 non kneel down drives in those six games against that's what you've got. Three Mahomes, one Burrow, one Bonix. Okay, 52, nine kneel down drives. They've allowed 25 touchdowns, 13 field goals, forced only 12 punts. There's one missed field goal in there. They've created three turnovers allowing 100 and 99 points. That's 3.83 points per drive. I believe that's more than the 2007 Patriots average per drive with a defensive minded head coach. So Brandon Beans thinking, okay, it was defense again in the AFC championship game last year, right? Josh Allen did enough. The Bills offense did enough at Arrowhead and a Chiefs offense that was average to above average the last season and a half hung 32 on you. So he goes out and signs Bosa, Larry Okelby, Michael Hoyt and drafts five defensive players in a row. Like here's more options for you, Sean McDermott. Let's get a stop, right? Let's, let's get one stop. You get to Denver. Yes, Josh Allen had four turnovers. The crazy play at the end of the half and he said from the blind side. But yes, he had four turnovers. Even then they almost became the second road playoff team ever to overcome a minus three turnover differential to win. I think it was one. They were one in 85 going into this game because of Alan, because of the offense. And then two minutes left, third and 11. It looks like Sean's going to send the dogs seven at the line of scrimmage. Here's the moment he's finally going to be aggressive. And three of them back off. Bo Nix hits Cortland Sutton for a first down. Four plays later, Tridavius White gets hurt. He's out. Sean Payton smells blood. Dean Jackson, ice cold off the sideline. You leave him one on one on the outside. What do you think Sean Payton's going to do? He did the same thing earlier in the game when Cam Lewis the safety got hurt. And Darnold Savage, your fifth or sixth safeties on the field. A bus from Green Bay shouldn't be in that spot, but Peyton saw it and he took advantage. So Sean McDermott failed to learn his lesson in the game. Look, if you got a defensive minded head coach, these are the little things you got to do. Yeah, and I think that Terry Pula is looking at these moments and he's Looking at the eyes of his players in the locker room, he talked about this today and he sees how despondent, how teary eyed Josh Allen is. Dion Dawkins, everybody. He's saying, man, we can't keep doing this year to year, like this team has plateaued. We got to do something. And I get the debate. But he decided that it was Sean McDermott's fault, not Brandon Bean.
- [12:40]
Tyler Dunn
Yeah, I agree with that. I think, you know, here's where I'll defend Brandon Bean. I think their offensive personnel is pretty good. They have an excellent slot receiver. Maybe not lad McConkey, but darn good star back, star left tackle, great running back, o line, more than solid. Multiple tight ends. Dawson Knox, obviously, Dalton Kincaid. So. And Keon Coleman. I didn't have a problem with the draft pick because I saw him in college and I thought he was rangy and tall. Receivers, number one last 20 years, number one position, first round bust is wide receiver. He's not the first to Belichick. Couldn't draft one in the first round. Chad Jackson, Nikhil Harry, Nikhil Henry from Arizona State couldn't draft one to save his life. So, by the way, Andy Reid, Brett Veach, great, great guys. Sky Moore, Ms. Rasheed Rice, always in trouble. Xavier Worthy, bottom first. Meh. So, like, I do think Brandon Bean deserves credit for. They've done a pretty damn good job on offense, a pretty good group, and I think an offensive coach like Brian Dabel would squeeze even more juice out of that group. So let's pivot to that. Is Day Ball the front runner?
- [13:54]
Colin Cowherd
He'll definitely be in the conversation. And I love this. I love talking Brian Dabel because it is fascinating. He was like a father figure for Josh Allen here. They were unbelievably close when I did that.
- [14:07]
Tyler Dunn
You were all over this.
- [14:08]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah, we probably talked about it on the Herd then we were. The 911 speech that McDermott gave that got a lot of headlines. But really, I thought one of the more fascinating Nuggets was in part three of that series where I had heard from veterans on that team and coaches who repeated just how close Josh Allen was to Brian Dable on the field. You know, Josh Allen, he's. He's a farm boy from Fireball, California.
- [14:35]
Tyler Dunn
Right.
- [14:36]
Colin Cowherd
And no star recruit had to earn everything. He. He's okay with a coach yelling in his ear hole like Brian Dabel would. I can picture him on the sideline after an interception in year two against the Patriots Stables losing his mind. Allen took the hard coaching, did something with it. Dable had such an effect on him as a young player, but he got off the field. I mean, they were hanging out all the time. It was a special relationship. So there was one player and I asked, this is 20, 23. Like, at that point, Dable's with the New York Giants, obviously. Like, did the Bills keep the right coach? And he paused for quite literally 13 seconds, ironically enough. And he goes, does that answer your question? I mean, there's people who think that the Bills could have multiple Super Bowls right now if Dable and Allen stayed together. And look, Josh Allen is going to be in these interviews with the head coaches. And I, not, not Dabel. I actually caught up with a coach who might be in the running for this job recently. And he, you know, we'll see if he's. He's of interest too. There's going to be a lot of people that want this job. When it comes to Dable, though, all signs would point to him being the front runner for all those reasons. But I also think of this. Colin Bright or a Brandon Bean is tight with Joe Shane. Joe Shane was here in Buffalo. And Joe Shane knows firsthand what went down with the Giants. Right? He probably knows all the good that comes with Dable and maybe some of the disorganization behind the scenes that came with Dable. You can learn from that stuff. Like, I love it when teams give a. Give a head coach a second chance. Like, you should be able to learn from what went wrong. So he absolutely could. That's what Bean has to kind of parse through and figure out, like, what. What went wrong and would he do better the second time around? Because being that being an NFL head coach, it's more than just coaching quarterbacks and having a relationship with Josh Hill, which is unbelievably important. There's game management stuff, which Dable struggled with with the Giants. Obviously, interpersonal relationships behind the scenes. Right. He famously clashed with Wink Martindale. So I think that's the kind of stuff that probably they're going to ask Brian Dabel in this interview when they have him in.
- [16:42]
Tyler Dunn
You know, I have defended Brian Daboll because coaching in New York is hard. Coaching in New York, having to take Dave Gettleman's guy, Daniel Jones, and win is hard. The New York media is multifaceted, multi personality, very uber competitive. And I said today on the Herd, I said, you know, Buffalo's different. I mean, you have real pros in the media. I'm not disparaging anybody. A lot of good radio, TV people up there Buffalo's always played bigger than it is as a market. Always reminds me, I don't know why. I think of this as Salt Lake City media. Buffalo media feel much bigger than they are. A lot of pros, people just want to live in Salt Lake City and ski, and people love living in Buffalo because it's a wonderful place to live. But I. I guess when I look at Brian Dabel, who succeeded in New York, even Coughlin at the end struggled, whereas I really like the ownership of Buffalo, I think Brandon Bean realizes a lot of people have the microscope on him now. And so the Buffalo media and I really respected this has been hard on Bean, and tomorrow's columns on this press conference will be intense. What is the relationship? Pegula, Bean fans, media today? Because usually when you get a market the size of Buffalo or Baltimore, the media is not antagonistic, but it does feel like Baltimore. Buffalo's media feels almost a responsibility. They know they're in the national spotlight and they've sharpened the saw. It feels like, I mean, Bean's radio appearance, I think, on wgr. I read the columns. I mean, is it. Is it as tense as it sounds?
- [18:44]
Colin Cowherd
It was tense today, Colin. There's no way around it. They asked. I was there. I wasn't able to get a question in. It was hard to get a question in because it was an opportunity to ask about the firing of head coach, which hasn't happened here in Western New York in nearly a decade. They've been winning division titles. Sean McDermott cleaned up the Rex Ryan mess, and it was a mess. It was worse than you can imagine. And he deserves all the credit for that. I mean, I think he. He's a free agent head coach right now. If you wanted to clean up the Cleveland Browns or a team like that, he could do it. Like, that's what Sean McDermott does really well. But, yeah, to answer your question, people are ready to ask Brandon beat some hard questions. I think it's interesting. You know, Sean McDermott really did ingratiate himself to the community this past year in a way that he hasn't most of his tenure. He has been a little standoffish, not doing much media beyond press conferences. Kind of, you know, a little colder, a little more aloof, and just didn't want to play that game, really. And then recently, even after I did that series, I was welcomed back in the building. I sat down with Sean at the combine. We talked about it, got a credential. Next thing I know, into the playoffs in 2024, I'm in his office. We're talking for an hour about his evolution as a coach. I mean, he definitely made a concerted effort to get his personality out there. Dan Pompeii at the Athletic. An excellent profile on Sean McDermott recently. I think through all of that, you know, there's a story in the Buffalo News where ahead of the last game at Highmark Stadium, he's like, looking around the field and taking it all in. And the community kind of felt an attachment to Sean McDermott, really. I mean, you can see it. You can feel it. The same fans who are pissed that this team loses every January, they. They felt a bond to him. And I think for the majority of fans, at least, this season, kind of pinned a lot of the problems on the GM and the wide receiver position. And it is kind of rooted in that WGR interview that Brandon Bean did. And so in a roundabout way, yeah, like fans, they, they didn't think a lot of fans, I know what the percentage would be, didn't think that Sean McDermott should have been fired. So when this goes down, I think a lot of folks were surprised and wanted answers and the media sought those answers. But here's where I, here's where I think, though, and this isn't to blame local media, blame fans. And just a theme that I keep coming back to, Colin, is let's not lose the plot here, everyone. Right? I gave you that stat earlier on this team. Move on at this point. And that game, that 13 seconds game at Arrowhead, I've been told repeatedly again on Monday when I reached out to people around the team, around the relationship of McDermott and Bean, that that moment had a lot of. Did a lot of damage. Right. I think Richard Sherman would tell you the exact same thing about the Legion of Boom Seahawks. When Pete Carroll decided to throw the ball at the one yard line, that moment kind of broke those Seahawks 28 3, broke the Atlanta Falcons. 13 seconds broke the psychology of the Bills. Here's why. Reported all of it. And it's funny, I mean, to my knowledge, Sean McDermott has been peppered with these 13 second questions, but I've reached out to coaches, I've reached out to players. He overruled the special teams coordinator, Heath Farewell, who wanted a squib kick. McDermott said touchback. That allows for those two plays to happen over the full 13 seconds. And what happens before those plays? He calls a timeout. They call it Kodak, a chance to kind of see what the Chiefs are doing and line up accordingly. The DBs are in another zip code, it's easy, easy work from Mahomes. In that moment, McDermott, I was told, overruled. Leslie Frazier's defensive coordinator, he's doing the defensive play calling. They gave up the field goal, they get into overtime, they get rolled over, they get inside the locker room. And I had a coach tell me that even in that moment, Sean McDermott said something like, why the offense left too much time on the field. Like what, 13 seconds. And then the next day is kind of looking at his assistant coaches and saying, you guys need to figure out what went wrong here. You need to figure it out. And that was it into the off season. So not only does this like really traumatic by football standards moment happen, there's really no ownership, there's really no accountability in that moment. And it really did linger into 22, 23, 24, to the point where people in all departments are saying like that that has kind of been a dark cloud over this team to where. And look, the timing's kind of always been awkward. If Terry Pigul and the Bills wanted to fire McDermott, because in 2022, Sean McDermott probably has his best coaching job ever. A player nearly dies on a football field tomorrow, Hamlin comes back to life and you've got to somehow get your team ready to play a football game the following week. Unbelievable job by McDermott. Yes, they get smashed by the Bengals in the playoffs, but it's not like Pula is going to fire him after all that 2023, I write that three part series when they're six and six, they win six games in a row, they're a missed field go away from getting to the AFC championship game. You can't really fire him after that. And then 2024, you're in the AFC championship game. That 4th and 5 prayer from Allen, you know, he escapes all that Rush, gets it to Dalton, Kincaid just misses it. They don't fire him after that. When in retrospect, maybe you should have Vrabel, Ben Johnson, Liam Cohen are available. But in a roundabout way, I understand. Look, I think that that has kind of hovered over the team in a way that isn't, isn't really understood by the fans, the majority of the fans who I feel this connection with, Sean McDermott internally, I'm telling you it's real. And if the Bills could do it all over again, I think they would think long and hard about doing the Doug Collins to Phil Jackson thing at that point. Right where it would have been hard to though the Bills were still on the rise. But if you could rewrite history. I mean, that would have been a moment to move on to a new coach. Write that upgrade while you're on the rise. After 13 seconds.
- [25:06]
Tyler Dunn
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- [27:56]
Tyler Dunn
We've covered a lot of ground with Buffalo. I can't bring you on and not talk packers because that's what we were first introduced to. You pick really fascinating franchises. So I defended Matt LaFleur and Brian Gudenkoontz, but mostly Matt LaFleur because he's won 66% of his games. I also think the NFC over the last two to three years has really improved. It's superior to the afc. And I also think Aaron Rodgers at the end was difficult. He had one or two really. Aaron was really happy to see him. McCarthy and Aaron had regressed as a relationship clearly eroded. He put his arms around the young, good looking guy just like Aaron. Generationally they were in line, kind of good looking, young, you know, successful guys. But at the end I think we know that Aaron aged pretty quickly. Like unlike Brady, he was not obsessed in the off season. You know, he took his off seasons to do his thing and Aaron's age more quickly. So he didn't get really great Aaron for quite the Runway we thought. Then Jordan Love. I thought he did a tremendous job with him and Malik Willis in multiple opportunities when I mean they got him into camp late and a month later he's playing and they're winning. So I just think he's a winning coach. I think it's the NFC's gotten better his division. You know, Detroit arguably best roster. Kevin o' Connell, one of the sharpest guys in the league. And now the Bears have Ben and Caleb. It's a really tough division with a lot of smart guys in it. So. But do you think when the stories came out and I tend to when I see a story proclaiming a big possible change. Okay, who wrote it? Do you believe they sat down in that organization 48 hours and thought about moving off Matt LaFleur?
- [29:52]
Colin Cowherd
It had to have been a thought. If you're at policy, you know, this is your opportunity to put your imprint on this team I mean, he's the CEO, he's the president. We know the fans own the team, but he's the one in charge. It's kind of a perfect situation when you, when you take over a team where you've got a head coach and a GM entering the final year of their deal. So you decide right then either you give them the extensions or you move off them. I mean, they didn't want to be lame ducks. Nobody wants that situation. So I think it was probably a thought, how could it not be after that choke job at Soldier Field? And then it wasn't, it wasn't the first to be up, but it could, it could have been 24 to 3 at half with the field goal. Hell, Jordan Love almost hit Christian Watson on a touchdown. It could have been 28 to 3 at the half. That's kind of a forgotten play. But yes, it's 21 to three to have those four three and outs, to have no answers as an offensive coach and you could just, you could just feel it, you know. Especially was interesting, Colin spending a week around the New England Patriots out of that game and hearing from Mike Vrabel and these players and how they strain through the play, how they work through the play, the longevity, but they never quit. They're relentless. And that is just created by Mike Vrabel as far back as the spring. It is very culture driven. When he's telling guys, pick up your dirty washcloths in the shower, he instructed the equipment staff, if you see dirty washcloths on the shower floor, just wring them out and don't wash them like little things like that all the way to the defense. He installs X's and O's. Wise has a purpose. And then to hear Matt LaFleur talk about how they need to strain through the plane the play more after the latest collapse.
- [31:37]
Tyler Dunn
I don't know.
- [31:37]
Colin Cowherd
Man like that speaks to the DNA of a team. He's been there a while. There's been a lot of late game collapses. Not all the way back to Aaron Rodgers.
- [31:47]
Tyler Dunn
So let me throw something at you. When, when he was hired, I was told, I've said this on the air. When McVeigh, Shanahan and Matt Leflore were together. McVeigh was the culture guy, Shanahan was the scheme guy. LaFleur was the nice guy. When he was in, when he was in Tennessee and went to Green Bay, I was told by somebody that was very close to the situation that he didn't think he was necessarily a great culture guy. He thought he was a good guy, a smart guy, knew his shit. But again, not necessarily. Didn't know if he could build his tough, relentless culture. I've said this about Lincoln Riley. I know he's smart. USC leads the nation in offense regularly. I know he knows his side of the ball. I know he's smart. I've compared Lincoln Riley and Matt lefleur. I know they're good and I know they're smart and they know quarterbacks and offense. I don't know if either is a great culture. Creator Ben Johnson did it in a six weeks. I mean, they were. They were a better football team in six weeks. They literally eliminated negative plays in sacks in the first two weeks. They were gone, out of the program. So my thing is, when I watch Dan Campbell's culture, bite kneecaps. Top. Physical. I can see it. Vrabel, clean it up. No penalties. Top. I can see it. Ben Johnson with Caleb in the offense. I can see it. I can't with the floor. I see smart. I see good with quarterbacks. I see. I see, you know, good guy, liked by a lot of people. I don't see a great culture. Is it fair for me to say.
- [33:39]
Colin Cowherd
That I agree 100% and I'm not just blowing smoke? Colin, I think you just nailed it. That's exactly what I hear about Matt LaFleur. What we see with our own eyes when we watch the Green Bay Packers. Look at five of their nine losses. They led by nine plus points. Three times they lost when they didn't even punt. Like, if that's not coaching, I don't know what is.
- [34:02]
Tyler Dunn
It's.
- [34:03]
Colin Cowherd
It is incredible what he did with Aaron Rodgers, you know, after a really messy breakup with Mike McCarthy, now you're coming in with your offensive. You got to blend it with Aaron Rodgers wanting to do whatever the hell he wants to do with the line of scrimmage, somehow they made it work. To the point of what, Getting MVP awards? Getting to divisional and conference playoff games.
- [34:24]
Tyler Dunn
I know he's good with quarterbacks. I watched him with Malik. I watched him with Jordan. I watched him with Aaron. It's like Lincoln Riley. I don't doubt that part. The mvp. I don't doubt it. This is about culture, right? And that's what I wonder about.
- [34:37]
Colin Cowherd
I'm right there with you. It's totally about culture. What he did with Jordan Love. Hell, I remember doing this podcast after that brutal Raiders game. It was awful. And we're all wondering, where's Jordan Love going to go from here? He developed him those three Years behind the scenes and then the three years as a starter. He is, in my opinion, a top 10, maybe a top five quarterback.
- [34:58]
Tyler Dunn
But you're.
- [34:58]
Colin Cowherd
You shouldn't lose a game when your quarterback throws for what, 300 plus yards, four touchdowns and no picks on the road. And look, we. We can nitpick plays all day long. If, if Michael Parsons is on the field, he probably creates a big play that wins you that playoff game. If Romeo Dobbs recovers an onside kick, you win that game. But when it happens repeatedly, go back to the Cleveland Browns game. They blow a 10 nothing lead to the freaking Browns with a few minutes left. That is culture. And I had a player tell me that he could see and feel Matt LaFleur freeze up. In his words, in big moments. It's kind of like he.
- [35:37]
Tyler Dunn
There's a little.
- [35:38]
Colin Cowherd
There's a little bit of a tenseness, a little bit of a panic in some of these moments. Look, I think you can grow, you can evolve. Maybe he can get that out of him. That this is last year that the player told me that. But you watch these games and you see these finishes, it makes you wonder, right? That's the big gamble by Ed Policy here, is that Matt LaFleur will continue to develop as a coach. And with the healthy Micah Parsons, he can figure this out. They've got the talent. I don't think talent's a problem. I think that's why Brian Gudekins was always safe. He's the one that put his career on the line for Jordan Love. When everybody was calling him nuts and he saw something, he believed he's the one that's drafted all these wide receivers. Look, we want to. Doc. Brandon Bean probably could take a page out of that. Gudigan's playbook Just, just draft receivers around your quarterback and let them develop together. He's done that. They made the big move for Parsons. It's on the floor to figure all that other stuff out. And I think it is rooted in culture, whatever you want to define it by. There's something amiss in Green Bay because look, if the new playoff rules weren't in. They're not even making the playoffs. Last three years. They're part of the 44% club. Is that seventh seed because they added another team? And what kind of conversation are we having right now with all that?
- [36:50]
Tyler Dunn
Right, let's. Let's end on the Patriots. You've spent time there as well. Tyler Dunn is joining us. Go long. His substack just does tremendous work. I didn't think it was that difficult. They had a ton of cap space. I thought Drake May was really good, so I picked him as a playoff team. It was my sort of. I pick a team every year. My double your win total team that nobody expects. And my two surprise picks this year were Seattle would make the playoffs and be much better than people think. A lot of that was rooted in John Snyder's drafting, where I thought he hit another great draft in April. And I thought, that's three stacked in a row. They got too many good players and I'm a Darnold fan. And the other was New England. I said they'll double their win total. I thought about 9 to 10. I didn't think they'd be this good. I've made the old Patriots were fascinating because they were outside of Brady. They weren't great anywhere, but they were good everywhere and terrible nowhere. And I feel like I'm watching the same, same owner, same offensive coordinator. Vrabel's a more current player, friendly Belichick, and Drake May's a younger, more mobile Brady. Now, will he ever be that productive? Probably not. But my takeaway on all this is the reason Vrabel really took this is because he made a few calls and everybody said, yeah, Drake May is really, really good. But you didn't know it because it was sporadic, because a young quarterback is as good as his coach. Caleb last year, Caleb this year. Right. Like, you're as good as your coach. Drake May had really bad coaching. Do you think when you snoop around, like, is the feeling we got Tom Brady, too. Yes, it is 2.0.
- [38:39]
Colin Cowherd
And I think it's a perfect storm for a lot of those reasons you just laid out. Let's start with Vrabel. So what he inherited. Yeah, I mean, it was a mess, but you can even go back a year before that. I've talked to coaches that were on that Gerard Mayo staff and. Right. It is kind of ridiculous that Gerard Mayo wasn't more prepared. When you know you're the heir apparent and you're going to take this thing over and yet you don't really have your staff all lined up and. But the problem was kind of like all Drodmayo had known was the Patriot way, the Belichick way of doing things, he takes over. This is. This is the first time that the Patriots are going through a wholesale coaching change like that in decades. So what I was told is like down to the little things, like some of these coaches that had to move their families, like the moving expenses that the Patriots were Giving these coaches was laughable. It was nothing because years, for years and years and years, everything just kind of ran through Belichick. Everything was status quo and nothing was really modernized. I mean, the sauna, you've got like wood paneling and two by fours falling apart. That, that was kind of trash that the coaches are in for the sauna. The, the offensive line coach, I believe, like wanted some new equipment and even asking ownership or asking whoever is in charge for some of this new equipment to use whatever they. $15,000. It just. Everything was. Everything was a chore. Everything took too much time. Gerard Mayo is kind of getting pulled in all these directions. Next thing he knows, he's pissing away a day, two days, three days on stuff that isn't football. So like Gerard Mayo, you don't know what you don't know. He didn't really know what kind of vision he wanted to have for the team. Mike Vrabel came in, he knew exactly how he wanted to build this thing. Yeah, he played for the Patriots, but he was the coach for the Titans. He knows what works, what doesn't work. He had a staff ready to go. Josh McDaniels comes in and Josh McDaniels, they're sitting down, him and Drake May watching Tom Brady film, right? Like you're running the same offense. He played a lot of the same teams. And Josh Potatoes, I'm sure you hear the same thing. He's going to be hard on you, man. Like he is old school. When he was Las Vegas head coach, I had heard that he would just rip guys in front of the team and it could make guys uncomfortable. But that Drake May can take it. Drake May wanted it and he wanted to have all those answers to the test where I think like that first staff, and I've actually talked to TC McCartney about it, the quarterbacks coach, you know, they helped his footwork that needed reconfigured out of North Carolina. They did some good stuff, but they didn't ask him to handle a lot of the line of scrimmage. Right? Like Josh McDaniels is going to ask you to handle a lot of the line of scrimmage. He's going to ask you to read a defense. So TC was really excited about where this thing was going. He saw Drake's talent, called him one of the smartest people in the entire building. But when we chatted early in the season, he's like, you know, that's a hard offense to learn. They might need a weapon or two. We caught up later in the season, he's like, he's there. He's one of the best quarterbacks in the game. So it really is a perfect storm. When you've got the fundamentals, you can read a defense, you can spread it around, and you've got Mike Vrabel running the show. Buckle in because the Patriots are going to be good for a really long time.
- [41:54]
Tyler Dunn
Yeah, for a really long time. I still think this sounds crazy. I still think they're in a semi rebuild. I think their offensive line needs. Needs to be fortified. I think it. Listen, Will Campbell's a good left tackle. It wasn't a great draft. I just think the O line's okay. I actually wish they would have used Travion Henderson a little bit more. My guess was always they didn't because he wasn't good in pass pro. I couldn't figure it out because he's got a burst. They have Stevenson, so I kept thinking, God, use him more, because in some of the games they used him. He was electric. But they've got five or six rookies in a really average draft, actually playing a lot. I like their secondary. So, yeah, I think everybody thinks the Bills and the Ravens and Joe Burrow and Harbaugh and Sean Payton are the ones that are going to get in the way of Andy Reid and Mahomes. I think it's New England. I think it's Kraft, vrabel, May, Josh McDaniel. I really do. I think they're going to build a fortress and. And I think they're going to. I, they. They won't duplicate the first goal round. It's just impossible. It almost. It would be a ridiculous movie script to say you're going to have 20 years, two separate dynasties. But do you think New England this year can win it?
- [43:11]
Colin Cowherd
100%. You know what I. What I loved about Mike Vrabel? He came in and I think a lot of folks saw the. The speech he gave the team in the spring. It hit so many of the right notes, but also, like on the practice field. D', Ameco, Ryan's kind of did the same thing in Houston. He'll call you out, like, if you're dragging ass, if you're not going through the echo of the whistle, he will pull you aside, I was told, and say, look, no hard feelings. If this isn't for you, we'll find a home for you. But it's not here, right? And you do that enough and you're going to have the attrition you need to build the team. You need this time of year to win it all. And look, it started with Robert Spillane and Morgan Moses and Milton Williams and Carlton Davis. They're signing all these guys who fit the ethos of everything Mike Vrabel wants. I've sat down with Carlton Davis. I mean, this is as throwback of a hardcore cornerback straight out of the 70s that you can imagine. He might get three DPIs, but he's going to get in a receiver's face. And he grew up in South Florida. Youth football games are shooting, shootouts breaking out. You're hitting the deck. Hardcore stuff. You can see why Vrabel likes a dude like that. So he knows what kind of player he wants. You know what's also interesting, Colin is Elliot Wolf is the gm son of the hall of Famer, or he was there before Variable got there. Everything I hear is that they've got a great relationship. And you always wonder about that. Like in New York, Joe Shane's there. John Harbaugh comes in. John Harbaugh wants to that final say it. It sounds like Elliot Wolf and Mike Vrabel are even on the same page. It's. I think they beat Jarrett Stidham, they get to the Super Bowl. Love Seattle's roster. Love, love Matthew Stafford. The Patriots are ready to win it all right now.
- [44:58]
Tyler Dunn
Yeah, Seattle's got a good, very good roster. The best roster left is Seattle, but they can be a little reckless with turnovers and penalties. I would say the cleanest team is la. They had no drop passes, no turnovers, no penalties in like minus 8 degrees in Chicago. They played perfect football. I think the team with the greatest next five to eight year Runway is New England. And I think the Broncos are four of four. And there's a reason they're an underdog with Bo Nicks. I'd give them a shot. Without Bo Nicks, I don't. Tyler Dunn. So good. This is just great. 40 minutes. It's great. You're crushing anything else you want to promote, fire away.
- [45:45]
Colin Cowherd
Okay. Thanks so much, Colin. I always appreciate hearing, hearing from Josh and the gang. Love coming out the pod. You're the absolute best. What you built up with the volume is fantastic. I should just plug your stuff. I listen to Middle Cops podcast a lot, man, he's. Oh, he's a great dude. So I've got a story up@golong td.com on why Sean McDermott was fired. Kind of the stuff we hit on here and a lot more behind the scenes. The relationship that he had with Sean McDermott and what he's like to deal with day to day in addition to the defensive performances and why Terry Bagulin the Bills decided to do this also. Yeah, always just try to talk to as many people around the league as we possibly can and go beyond those press conferences.
- [46:25]
Tyler Dunn
Golong td.com Great stuff.
- [46:28]
Colin Cowherd
Thanks so much. Calm.
- [46:31]
Tyler Dunn
The volume.
- [46:34]
Colin Cowherd
This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.