← The Herd with Colin Cowherd
The Herd with Colin Cowherd
Colin Cowherd Podcast - INSTANT REACTION: Indiana Wins National Championship, Miami Clearly 2nd Best Team, NIL Has Transformed College Football
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- [00:00]
Podcast Host
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- [00:33]
Colin
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John Middelkoff
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Colin
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John Middelkoff
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Colin
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John Middelkoff
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Colin
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John Middelkoff
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- [01:42]
Colin
Well, we have a new national champion in college football. Third straight year it's a Big Ten team. First it's Jim Harbaugh and the Wolverines. Last year it's Ohio State punish people in the playoff. And Miami and Ohio State both were built to potentially beat Indiana. Neither could 27, 21. Third straight Big Ten champion. I will say I thought it would be a little like this, a little more scoring than I thought I thought it would be the under but you know, be cheap. Cheap, a little chippy. Early against Mendoza, he got a late hit. They didn't call it. A couple of little late hits, personal fouls not called. And I mean make Indiana, you know, convert fourth downs and third downs and they did. That's what Indiana's been doing all year. They did it against Iowa, they did it against Penn State, they did against Ohio State and they did it against the Miami Hurricanes. I think Mendoza, I mean if there were any critics or doubters that he's the number one pick, John, I mean he just that quarterback draw for a touchdown took a beating. Listen, I think you Know what I think it proves is that Miami not only deserved to be in the College Football Playoff, but Miami was the second best team. I mean, Ohio State's offense couldn't generate, you know, this kind of offensive explosion. I mean, I, you know, I mean, they were driving to put their fourth touchdown up. So I mean, I think, I think we got the two best teams in the country. And by the way, if you're an SEC fan, not only should you be terrified of the gap that is widening between the Big Ten and the sec, Miami has major, major nil money. Broward county is a just an unbelievable recruiting hotbed and Crystal Ball may be the best recruiter in the country. So Miami and Indiana. Now Indiana's got Mark Cuban's checkbook. John. John Middelkoff joining us. I, it, it just, it's a. Those are. Miami and Indiana, John, are not going anywhere.
- [03:43]
John Middelkoff
Well, the one thing Mario's going to do is build in the trenches and that's going to translate moving forward. I mean, they had early on in the game, you went, this is going to be hard. This felt like an NFL game to me. Like the stats like this wasn't going to be either quarterbacks not throwing for 300 yards. It's. It's going to be about getting big third and fours converted. The Mendoza in that first couple series stretch when he got absolutely destroyed. Multiple free hits on sacks hit in the face. I thought, I can imagine Tom Brady up in the box looking at his GM going, that's the NFL right there. And he hopped right back up, faced off. And then obviously he played well throughout. But even Ohio State, because I started texting around, you know, Bane is viewed as a top 10 pick, but Mesadore, he's 25. And I was like, you know, teams and it's like, well, he might not go in the first round because he's older, but he ain't going to last far in the second round. So they have two guys that were just coming. They're D line. The other guys are really good. That was a test for Indiana, the physicality. Because one thing Indiana's had is beside Ohio State. No one could match their physicality. I'd argue. Tell me if you agree with this. Are they the best team? I'm saying team in college or pro because they don't really have a weakness. Their defense is great, their offense is very well round and their special teams are fantastic.
- [05:06]
Colin
I would say Seattle feels the same way as when you can have great special teams. I think they said that was the eighth Week blocked punt by a Signetti team at Indiana. So like Seattle is rare where they don't have a hole and they have elite special teams. That's Indiana. So like you don't get that usually at the college level. Even when you have great college programs, you don't spend any, you know, you're not spending nil money these days on the special teams. I can remember when Pete Carroll was at usc, they didn't even care about special teams. They didn't even go for blocks. You know, they were just going to beat you on their units O and D. And so I think I would say this about Indiana. They're, they were trailing the entire game. They felt like they were coming from behind. Miami is physically the way to beat Indiana is what Ohio State and Miami have which is better than average college quarterback, big time skill players that can, you know, you don't, you can get over the top. Fletcher the running back, Tony the receiver. You can pop for big plays. You're not going to get 13, 15 play drives in Indiana and Ohio State and Miami both had that. And then in tough physical defenses that make Indiana get down to late third and five and fourth and three because you can't give many. You can't win against Mendoza if it's third and one. If it's second and four, you've got to put him into third and fives, fourth and fours. You got to make them earn it. But that's what Indiana does. I mean their, their gutsy play calling, those sideline fade patterns, they're just a really complete college team. And again this is with the 60th ranked recruiting classes. John, they're going to get top 20 classes now. Now they've got Cuban's checkbook. So I mean next year Ohio State's loaded. Michigan's going to rebound with Whittingham. They've got great offensive pieces. Indiana's going nowhere. Oregon now with Dante Moore's a top six program. USC and Washington are out of the rebuild stage. They both have their quarterbacks returning and a lot of nil money and a lot of players. Penn State with Matt Campbell should be at least, maybe they'll be somewhere around the top 20, 25. I just think this is, I think the Big Ten now at the top is the best conference hands down.
- [07:18]
John Middelkoff
Well and it's a coaching conference when you think about it, right? Saban retires, you add Signetti who immediately is just an elite. I mean he's, he's right away, I mean there's not a better coach right now in the country than him. I mean look what he just did. Went through Deborah and Dan Lanning like they were Swiss cheese and took on Miami and physically went toe to toe with them and obviously beat Ryan Day. So he's, you got to give him spur the, you know, living in the moment, the best coach in the country. The money aspect and the transfer portal advantage for them. I mean Signetti, I was reading, I don't know that much about the transfer portal. Had a great transfer portal, landed a quarterback like, like they're not only not going away, like they're going to view themselves as a playoff team again next year. Like this is switched. This isn't, you know, it used to be pre recruiting. If a team had a great year, basketball or football, they got kind of a one year wonder. Well, one year wonders are over. If you have the money, you, you just keep it rolling, you keep it flowing.
- [08:13]
Colin
That's right.
- [08:14]
John Middelkoff
So and the other advantage he has, like his coordinators aren't going anywhere. I mean, what do they really hang their hat on? Because beside Mendoza, Miami had way more prospects in the top 100 of this upcoming draft than Indiana. They're the best coach team in even tonight. You just saw, even when their plays didn't hit one time, one of their wide receivers got held. It was a perfect route. They find a weakness like the weakness of Miami clearly is a secondary. And they found the weak link on that secondary 24. And they were just going after him and they were going after. That's what NFL coordinators do when they find a weak link. You've seen it with Ben Johnson, with Kyle Shanahan, Sean McVeigh and they attack.
- [08:48]
Colin
And also Signetti likes older players. I mean Carson Beck hasn't been going to class for two years. I think your initial, your initial comments right on the money. This felt a little bit like an NFL game. I mean college football because they pay. The players now have a transfer portal which is free agency and have an NFL style playoff. The sport feels more like the NFL. Well, tonight's game to me more than any national championship game felt professional. You have two quarterbacks that are going to play on Sundays. You have 23 and 24 year olds playing in the game. I think the coaching now, I mean to have a team like Indiana that doesn't make mistakes, John, that's a professional team. I mean the Rams played no drop passes, no penalties and no turnovers against Chicago. That's what elite NFL teams did. We've always kind of built in that our college players make Mistakes. Indiana plays like a pro team and a lot of that is they're very, very old. There are a lot of 23 year olds. And so you know, college basketball is great, but a lot of these college basketball teams, these are one and done guys, right? They're like 19 year old kids. Well, with somebody now you have a child 4 days old who you should know, John Middelkoff. I've have six kids in my life. The gap between like 19 and 23, it's the grand Canyon. Like it's a different, especially with boys, it's a different human being. The brain's developing. So Indiana's got 23 year old guys on the team so they just don't commit mistakes. Even that bang bang, late, that, that, that personal foul on the hit on Beck, even in slow motion, it was bang bang in fast motion. I'm like, that's not a penalty. That's, that's you're given one. I mean if you're not going to call the ones against Miami early, that's a weak one to call against the Hoosiers late. So my, my point is the game I thought really looked almost 70% professional.
- [10:43]
John Middelkoff
I was thinking about this, you know, historically you thought basketball school, football school, right? If you went to UCLA or Indiana or North Carolina, it was basketball based. And if you met someone that went to Texas or Ohio State or Michigan, like it was a football school. I've seen a lot of people, I live in Scottsdale and obviously we get a lot of older people that retire here and I see people at the gym wearing their Indiana shirts over the last probably 18 months. Everywhere you meet him, you talk to, they love football. Well, who are they? They went to Indiana, They're Bears fans, they're packers fans, they're minute. But they went to a school that football not only didn't matter as the worst program in the history. Well, these people not only will support like they have always been football people like this is not UCLA where it's like even if they resurrected their fan base, these Indiana people, I would imagine they have the biggest alumni base. What percentage of those, especially men are Bears and Packer fans? Numbers probably pretty high right from that region of the country. So it's not like they're not passionate about this sport. And you felt it tonight with Miami on the field, the crowd. So not only it's not just the numbers that they have, all these fans, people that go to Michigan, Ohio State love football. Like that's part of the power, right? These Indiana fans, you've Awoken it overnight like that. And they are going to be treated the program with the, with the passion and the support immediately like these other top Penn State, Michigan, Ohio State immediately, like overnight. And they have the base like it's not like they don't have to fake it. That's where I think that scary. If you're in the Big Ten, you're like this program with this coach, you see him say like earlier this week, he's like, I'm not an NFL guy. He's not even, he's not even doing the Marcus Freeman, like you know, teasing you. He's like, I'm here.
- [12:20]
Colin
Well, also Indiana is known as a business school. So people leave Indiana, the jobs are not in Indiana and they go to Chicago and they go to Dallas and they go to Phoenix and they go to Minneapolis and they've got money. I mean they're in Chicago, where I'm at. And again now, because Indiana is good, there are Indiana flags everywhere. There are Indian. I mean I see it all over Chicago this weekend and over the past month there's Indiana gear everywhere in Chicago. So this is a Big Ten town, obviously, but this has always been a school known for excellent business. School graduates make a lot of money and they leave the state of Indiana because that's not where the jobs are. Most Big Ten kids, they go to Chicago if they want to stay in the region or they go to New York or Los Angeles or the Bay Area. That's where the Big Ten kids go. Or they go to warm weather in the South. SEC kids mostly prime primarily stay kind of in Atlanta, Dallas footprint. Some go west, but not that many. So these Indiana kids are all over the country and they're going to go everywhere for their football program. I mean you saw the crowd tonight with 75% games in Miami. It was 75% Hoosier fans. It was wild. So I mean the other thing I thought about watching Mendoza, so think about this weekend, probably the pass of the year in the NFL. Number one pick, Caleb Williams. Fernando Mendoza. Tonight Carson Beck had a really good second half. But Fernando Mendoza is simply different than every other college quarterback. He, there's a gap between him and Dante Moore and Arch Manning is substantial. Julian saying substantial. Matt Stafford, fourth quarter in overtime, number one pick. These number one picks, when they're really the real deal. Stafford, Caleb Mendoza, John, they're different. There's a difference between a first round quarterback and a number one pick. And when I watch Mendoza, just the size, I mean he had a bloody lip from that cheap shot early the size, the toughness, the accuracy. Again we see this. He moves, he moves a lot better than people think. He doesn't move as well as say Andrew Luck, but he moves better than a Goff or a C.J. stroud. I think he's closer to a little bit of a Justin Herbert move than he is a Jared Goff. He's a big, strong kid, obviously committed, humble. There's a humility. I don't know, you're a former pro scout. He looks like to me now again, I don't think he has the horsepower of Caleb or Josh Allen, but to me he feels like a high end franchise quarterback, does he not?
- [14:58]
John Middelkoff
Well, let's remove, you know, Caleb's skill set is beside, I mean he's on a short list of, of physical tools coming out of college. But if you just look at the NFL, let's just pick two guys who have been Pro Bowlers and when their team is well run, they go to the playoffs consistently. Jared Goff and Dak Prescott. When it's all said and done, what are those two going to combine to make $800 million, you know, playing in the league and combined for probably 10 total Pro Bowls. I mean they've been really good players for a long time and if those guys can play at a high level and obviously Dak was a later pick but you know, it doesn't once you get in the NFL, like if you could redo it, that would have gone one or two. Right, right. Fernando Mendoza can. And to me, the golf comparison, you know, his touch passes. And there was a play early in the game that Herbstre gave him credit. He looked left, wasn't there. Their pass rush is coming 90 miles an hour. It's like Will Anderson and Daniel Hunter relative to college speed, coming off the edge, he's boom, check down out of his hands. And I was thinking, listen, I mean he's been playing at a pretty high level for a while, but you get there, you're warming up, you know, the Raiders have the number one pick. It'd be one thing if it's Mark Davis and Spitek over there. It's another thing when Tom Brady standing next to him.
- [16:15]
Colin
Right.
- [16:15]
John Middelkoff
And that. And for all these players, I mean don't think for a second every player on that warm ups, Miami and Indiana included, didn't look at Tom Brady standing right there. So it adds an extra juice. And then you do you play the way he played. To me, the determining factor for quarterback. You don't need to have Caleb's arm. You don't need to have Lamar's ability, but you do need to be really mentally tough and you're going to get hit really, really hard. And he popped up a couple of times. He got hit like an NFL player and he hopped right. And he's been doing it all. Go back to that Ohio State game. I was all in the moment the Ohio State happened. The first play of the game. A play later, he's back on. And the way he played in that game because Ohio State and Miami, that's playing. I mean, we see some of these NFL defenses relative to, you know, the competition is way worse than what he just saw over the course of the Miami and Ohio State games. So it is not. You're not throwing for 400 yards in. This isn't the Big 12. You know, Sam Darnold just won a game 41 to 6 through 18 times. Like the. The NFL is much more about making right decisions. CJ Stroud fell apart because he played dumb. Like you can't put the ball in harm's way like that. So a huge part of quarterback to really turn it around. Like Jared Goff and Dak, once they started playing well, it's like don't turn the ball over play when they get bad. It's like they're trying to force it too much.
- [17:33]
Colin
Yeah.
- [17:34]
John Middelkoff
So he gets the NFL his skill set 100%. I actually think the pressure is now on the Raiders. Like he is more than good enough if you build it right to turn around your franchise again. Jared Goff and Dak Prescott and Kirk Cousins, they have proven that they can be level guys that can take you. It's on you then to build the team. Because he's not at the NFL level good enough to just do it by himself. Right. I mean, Caleb has some of that to him. He can just do stuff by himself that no one else really can do. He's not that. But he's definitely really damn good. I've been floored, I think the last four games, which I bet the most of the NFL. I mean, he's a 100% locked to be the number one overall pick unless a catastrophic injury happens. Training. He's the number one pick in the draft.
- [18:14]
Colin
I mean, listen, I saw him against Iowa. I saw him against Ohio State and Miami and Penn State come, you know, in that wild second half. Is that, you know, Indiana had some bumps. He wanted Austin. Yeah. I just. I just think he has all the traits. I always say to be a great quarterback, you have to have one great trait. His size Is great. He's a 65 and he's big. He's a big 65 kid. Secondly, I, he has really, really nice touch. He's a very accurate with very, very nice touch. And I think the other trait, and this is a real trait, he's tough. That kid can take pops. I mean his bloody lip. Early in the game. Signetti was ticked off at halftime and probably had a right to be. But I think I, I will give Mario Crystal ball credit. He always had a reputation, John. He was a recruiter and he was an okay game planner and game coach. I thought his in game coaching was very strong. I thought you could have after that block punt that thing could have been over. I think he built a really good staff and I thought Miami, you know, a good sign of coaching, John is two things is improving over the course of a season. I mean Carson Beck threw four picks against Louisville. They were awful. They were a totally different team three months later. Secondly, I thought it's in game coaching. Listen, Miami makes mistakes. They're not a flawless team. They're younger than Indiana, they're more athletic than Indiana. And you know, you and I have talked about this. This the Miami culture is a little, is attitude, chest out, little peacock. We're going to play. You know, if they were a comic, they'd go after hecklers like this is how Miami's culture is built, which is we're going to play with a little attitude. We're not going to be buttoned up. We're not Indiana, we're not. That's their style. So I don't look at Miami and think, oh, they had more penalties. That's who they are. They're going to hit just a little after the whistle. So I thought overall Miami played well. Carson, Beck, you know, they didn't do much offensively in the first half. But listen, Miami played well enough to win a national championship. That block punt is probably something you can't, you can't have a block punt for a touchdown against Indiana and beat a team like that. You just, you can't. And I think that in the end that that's your difference.
- [20:23]
John Middelkoff
I think the next step for them because they are going to recruit the best D and offensive linemen. Mario's going to do that at a Saban Kirby smart level. To me, you know, there was a big difference last year when they had Carson or Cam Ward and their offense was super electric. And this year Carson's not that level of talent. Right. He's, he'll be drafted on the third Day of the draft, which you have a, you have an NFL quarterback on your team, you're going to be solid. But if they can nail a first round pick to be their quarterback because they got Tony, who's 18 years old, they will recruit running backs, they will have a great offensive line. They should be the toast of the acc. I mean Clemson's fallen off a cliff. I mean Belichick's claiming that his recruiting class is going to help him. I'd short that program. Florida State's got a lot of problems. The one thing you would say about Mark, they got no excuse to not dominate that conference. And then you put yourselves in a position where like I bet the goal this off season, we want to get one of the top four seeds. So it makes your path a little bit easier. I mean their path, right, they had to go on the road to Texas A and M, Ohio State. It was just that because you, you play that first game, especially if you are playing another top, you're going to play another really good team. If you're not drawing the non power four, you know, program, it's hard and that, you know, they were still, they still had a lot of juice it felt like, but they had had some injuries. I was impressed. The Miami this I thought was really, really respectable for Mario gets made fun of a lot I think in football circles and Twitter and people that just follow the sport. And he's brought some of that on himself. I think this year you got to shut up a little bit if you're one of those people and just tip your hat to the guy.
- [21:59]
Colin
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- [23:29]
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- [24:04]
Colin
In game coaching, I thought they could have when they were down 10 nothing at half, I mean, they ended up losing 27, 21 and they were driving. So I thought Miami played well, they were physical, they were tough and they looked well coached to me. I have no problem with that effort. Listen, Indiana humiliated teams this year. I mean, it beat the brakes off teams. They the two teams that gave them trouble, Indiana and Miami. And if I had to take if I had to vote the final rankings of the year, I would put Indiana one, I'd put Miami two, and I'd put Ohio State three. And you know, those are the three best teams I saw this year. So, and I'll go back to this. Georgia and Alabama are not the same. They don't have the finances. Josh Pate came on my podcast about a week ago and said, listen, the Atlanta money's never been like in the pocket of Georgia football. Notre Dame's got big money, huge endowment. And let's be honest about Marcus. He's a top two or three recruiter in the country. There's no question. Cristobal, huge nil money. South Florida is a recruiting hotbed and Mario may be the best recruiter period in the country. Signetti, Ryan Day, here comes Oregon year after year. You know Kyle Whittingham, I think, listen, 10 years ago, I don't know if a 66 year old would work. It's administrative now. Indiana's got, Michigan's got big money. They'll buy players. So if you wake up this morning and you're an SEC fan like you got Notre Dame, you got Miami, you got, you know, you got the Big Ten. It's a, it's a scary time for them. I mean this idea that Lane Kiffin you just put down some national titles. I don't buy it. I think Texas next year is a team in that conference and I think they may be the best team in that conference by a gap.
- [25:52]
John Middelkoff
Well when, when you say sec, who do you think? Georgia, Bama, lsu, Florida. Well, who are going to be the best two SEC teams moving forward is two Texas teams. They got all the money. I mean it's Sark. I read the other day they're gonna have a $40 million roster which is probably by a pretty sizable gap the number one team in the country in terms of roster money. So there's going to be a lot of individual pressure on them to win. When you have that much talent, it's going to be pretty difficult probably to not go 10 and 2. Right. So as long especially if Arch improves just incrementally so and A and M is clearly not going anywhere. They have a huge checkbook. It's Texas Tech. They're great advantage. They're going to pass some of these SEC teams. It's not about history. Doesn't matter anymore. It just doesn't. No one gives a shit that Nick Saban won the national championship in 09 or Florida in 08.
- [26:43]
Colin
Texas Tech just went and bought Cincinnati's quarterback who I thought I talked to people was a draft double quarterback this year. He'll be a first round pick next year. He was a mid early second round. Sorsby was his name. He was at Cincinnati. Texas Tech went and bought him. So I did something A week ago, two weeks ago on my show I said top 10, next 10. If you consider NIL and Portal top 10 programs, next 10. I put Texas A and M, Texas and Texas Tech all in it. I'm sorry, it's oil money. The Texas economy is big. It's getting bigger. You got California companies and billionaires moving to Texas. It's going nowhere fast. So let's.
- [27:20]
John Middelkoff
I got one I got one for you, Colin. I saw this tweet and I liked it. I pulled it up, I said, this person I think must cover college football. He said, more proof how the nil landscape has shifted things. There are only 42 early entrants into this upcoming draft. In 26. Go back 4 years. In 2021 that number was 3x at 130. The ability for college to pay players has made it a lot more attractive to stay. Well, what do you. Who is that benefiting the most? The teams with all the money, right? So when you see these kids that used to go, where are they gravitating to whoever's giving them the most money? This is a, that's right. It's just a transactional sport now. And I am not SEC hater. I, I love the sec. They've had all the NFL talent and was Saban and Kirby been the most dominant program. But this thing has dramatically shifted overnight at numbers. I mean you hear it as much as I do the numbers. Sometimes I'll be talking to somebody like a successful human and I'll be like, yeah, this kid got paid, I heard like $1.2 million and he won't even believe, he's like, no way. Like I don't even, I don't even believe the stuff I read on the Internet. I'm like, I'm telling you, this is the amount of money these guys are getting paid. It is insane. But it's not because this is what's really going on.
- [28:32]
Colin
I have a friend in Manhattan Beach, California. He is a nil agent and he is. There is a wide receiver at an ACC school, good player. And he's come down to two schools, both Big Ten, a million and a half. One of the schools already has two elite receivers. He'll be a third, a million and a half. And it's, it's, it is a one of these and it's a blue blood Big Ten college program that has two receivers I love. So it's just a different ballgame, the bidding. You know, these Notre Dames and Michigan's have top 10 national endowment numbers. They have billions of dollars. They're drawing interest on that daily. The market's been up for, you know, look where the stock market's at. These endowments are growing like crazy.
- [29:26]
John Middelkoff
Do you think it's sustainable though? Because it's one thing if I'm a rich guy and I give Signetti $5 million on a, you know, Dillingham begged for 20 million and people that my wife was like, God, that's crazy. I'm like, he's just asking for next year's roster. This isn't for the next 10 years. But if I'm giving to some of these programs, only a couple can have really successful years eventually if I'm a giver, even if I have huge money. What if you don't win for a couple years? Am I going to keep funneling the money at the rates in which or the numbers in which? That's where I think I will say, and it's going to be easy for them to get donations right now. But some of these Penn states like you better show me in a couple years or the money could dry up.
- [30:05]
Colin
Well, what is happening in America? The elite 1% have separated. The Dow is almost at 50,000. So again, what would put college football in the crosshairs of trouble? It's just like our national debt. You know why Our national debt, we talk about it a lot, but we're not in danger because our economy keeps growing. So as our economy grows, that's the only way. Elon Musk talks about this regularly. The debt becomes less relevant if your economy grows. The debt's a bigger problem in Europe because their economy is not growing at the pace of America's, according to all the economists. Well, it's the same in the nil. It's very easy for a guy to rationalize a $6 million check to his local university if things are humming in the economy. So if the economy crashed, that's what I think when college football people would say, okay, we're taking two years off. I'm not writing you $24 million in checks. So even for billionaires, a lot of it is what's the current state of the economy. So for the rich right now, not middle class, not normal people, but for the rich, they've separated, things are good, things are hot. And that's about as deep into the economy as John and I'll ever go because we, I certainly don't know what I'm talking about. But I think big picture and all.
- [31:21]
John Middelkoff
This stuff that is true. I mean it's just those guys are more willing. They've never had more money and ripping giving these checks. But if it does flip and what's the first thing to go the second home? The country club membership. That's where this, this is funny money right now. And if you're doing well, it's probably flown. I mean, Indiana, the amount of booster money they are going to get in the next six months is going to be historic.
- [31:44]
Colin
Well, and here's the other thing. Baseball talks about this. This is why I keep saying, you can tell me college football's in trouble. The ratings for tonight's game are going to be massive. ESPN and Fox have great college football deals. They're making a lot of money on it. The attendance has been great. Remember, there was a decline in ratings and attendance during the Alabama dynasty. At the end the last five years, that was the problem. The sport became incredibly regional. Well, it's not regional. The country was watching Miami and Indiana. So Indiana, boom. Huge fans. SEC fans were obviously watching because Big Ten is their villain. Miami, you've got the ACC watching. And I think west coast people. I've said this is. Growing up on the west coast, you always watch Big Ten football because they were in the Rose Bowl. So I've always been a Big Ten fan. Even if I was a Husky or a Duck or a Trojan, I was always a Big Ten. I watched everybody in the Big Ten, but. And I love the SEC as well.
- [32:36]
John Middelkoff
I didn't really start watching the SEC till Nick Saban really took it to another level. Most of my Life. In the 90s, SEC didn't feel as popular. It was regionalized toward that. You watched Michigan football, whatever, Ohio State football, much more often than you ever did, beside maybe like a big Florida Georgia game. You weren't watching random SEC games. And obviously the TV has expanded that. But the Big Ten feels like they're in a pretty good spot right now.
- [33:00]
Colin
They are. So. But. But I think about this all the time. People complain about baseball, and they say, oh, Kyle Tucker went to the Dodgers. Well, baseball was in a big. Was in a really dry spot about three years ago. Okay? Attendance was going down for three straight years. TV ratings were going down for 15. And then Rob Manford said, pitch clock, speed the game up. Defensive shift, no pitchers hitting. All of a sudden you look up and you're like, oh, there's more hits, there's more action, there's more runs. Ohtani goes. Angels, Dodgers. And over the course of the last couple of weeks, the Dodgers have gotten better. The Cubs added Bregman at third. Cabrera the pitcher. Yankees Weathers throw in another good arm. The Yankees, the Cubs, the Dodgers, all got better. Well, I'm sorry, that's not bad for baseball. The Nil and the transfer portal is not bad for college football. When Miami and the Big Ten are humming and the Texas schools are humming and Notre Dame is humming, folks, college football's in a great spot. This sport's never been about Purdue, okay? The bottom line, it's always been top heavy. Right now you got three Texas schools. I'm in Miami, Notre Dame, Big Ten in the SECs is still wildly popular. And I've said this about baseball. Well, what about the little guy? Mariners, Guardians, brewers, all great last year, by the way. The Astros, if they're healthy, with the Cubs, with the Dodgers, with the Padres, with the Phillies, with the Yankees and the Mets should be okay. Will all be viable. The Pittsburgh Pirates weren't winning 25 years ago. They're not winning now. Nobody cares. So usually when you have these big changes and it feels like there's a separation, John, there's a separation in everything. You know, Tesla's separated from, you know, some automotive company. There's. There's a big separation in banking, in college football. If you look at the country right now, I was looking at baseball, salary gaps in baseball. St. Louis right now is a tiny market. They've lost 15 Fortune 500 companies in the last 30 years. St. Louis might as well have. They're a little small fry. They weren't 30 years ago. That's the reality of America. The coasts, Florida. Miami, by the way, has become a tech center. Miami's got a lot of money right now. Part of it is Miami's economy now is a big boy economy. It wasn't 30 years ago, it wasn't 20 years ago. It is now. So I don't worry about the sport, I don't worry about baseball, I don't worry about college football. Look at the ratings, look at the attendance, look at the relevance, look at the revenue. College football's on fire. I don't remember in the last 20 years caring more about college football. Every time I turn a game on, John, it's like the NFL I'm watching this weekend. The weather's horrible. You can't find a seat in any of these games. There's not a seat available in any of these games. When they show these panoramic views of.
- [35:56]
John Middelkoff
The stadium, they, they did get lucky that the, the Bears and the Patriots, the Eagles have this, Seattle has this. Are collegiate like atmospheres and collegiate like fan bases. And I, they're some of the rare fan bases that does have a pageantry a little bit like some of these college. I mean, yeah, the, the Bears, that was fun. And I, I think the NFL. I'm with you. You turn on. It's. We, we talked about it last 7 degrees. The, the Patriot game sure didn't look warm. There ain't a, there ain't a seat. You Couldn't even get one. If you tried one, they'd beat you up. Two, that was not even available. And I mean look at the get in prices tonight. I mean the vibe. These games, they feel like a really big deal, little FOMO action to the sport people. And one thing football really benefits from is the, the inventory is just a lot smaller than these other sports. I mean if you don't watch an NBA game, you talk about sports for a living. If you miss a couple weeks, like you ain't missing anything right now, you're just not. But in football, every game kind of matters. In the playoffs, they're not a series. I remember, I remember a couple of years ago the warriors played Memphis in the second round. They lost a game by 50 points in a playoff series, it didn't even matter. I mean the game later, they win, they're off to the next round. In football, every same with tonight. Every snap matters, every drive matters. I mean look at Josh Allen's in tears. He knows, like it felt like he's, like his career's over or something after losing a divisional round playoff game. There is just an intensity to football that. Listen, it's not proud to say this, but the amount of time we spend on our phone, the way we're wired now and the urgency to everything, football just benefits from that immediately to the way society is kind of built. We're not a patient place at all anymore. And the NFL is not patient either. I mean look what are there 10 job openings in the NFL? Look at college football this year, four or five games in, you weren't winning. Brian Kelly, James Franklin, there's just so much money and fans like that like urgency. Let's go next guy. Even if it's, I mean, we'll find out the Bills, I mean if it's going to work out who they can hire. But I think that adds a lot of juice to all this thing.
- [37:57]
Colin
Yeah, I mean people, I hear this a lot about a lot of things in life and maybe, maybe as I've aged. I don't think this is a contrarian take. As I always hear, blank isn't sustainable in baseball. It's not sustainable. Yes it is. If the Cubs, the Yankees, the Astros, the Dodgers, the Phillies are great, it's very sustainable. And John, I do not remember a college football season. I don't remember one that I was more engaged, there were more drama, more big games. I mean the other thing is that I said this today on FS1. Patience is a virtue. A virtue. Doesn't virtue doesn't win playoff games. New England blew out Gerard Mayo in one year. Clearly the right move. Look at Seattle. Think about this. Two years ago was Seattle, Pete Carroll at the end, I mean you looked up and you went, what a lost franchise. Two years later they look like the best roster easily in the NFL.
- [39:00]
John Middelkoff
And the best if they don't win the super bowl two years.
- [39:04]
Colin
You can't do that in the NBA. Because in the NBA the players entering your franchise are 19 and 20 years old. They're not men. Well, now college football is older. The players entering the NFL, I mean the Patriots have like five rookies making an impact. These are grown men. Their bodies are full, 23 years old. They're ready to produce at the NFL level as rookies. So you can rebuild and so you can rebuild much more quickly in the NFL because a coaching matters more than any sport. So the difference between Gerard Mayo and Mike Vrabel or Nat Hackett and Sean Payton is 14 points a game. It's substantial. It's the difference between losing games and winning games. Secondly, your draft is full. You can have 10, 11 draft picks. Six guys can play as rookies and they're 23 year old men. They're productive from day one. So football is just built. It's the league of hope. It's built to turn around things quickly. Bears last year, unwatchable. Patriots unwatchable. Seahawks two years ago, unwatchable. Look where we are. Jacksonville, Houston the day before D' Ameco, Ryan's is drafted, unwatchable. 313 and 1. Now you know, they're in the playoffs winning games every year.
- [40:15]
John Middelkoff
Did you see the quote? I think it was from either Rossini or Sando article in the Athletic that an unnamed coach, probably a head coach, said that These are the 32 worst owners we've ever had. Did you see that? It kind of went viral. Yeah, and my thought was no. I just think all these guys have more money than ever. The reason that steinbrenner or Eddie DeBartolo or someone could fire people whenever they wanted back in the day, because they had enough money to Bidwell couldn't afford to do it. Most NFL owners in the 70s, Jamarcus Russell got drafted number one overall. He set out the first four or five games because Al Davis did not have the money to pay the signing bonus. Had to wait for the media money. Colin, that was not 1986, that was 2006. Think how far the NFL 2006 Al Davis did not have enough money and he probably wouldn't have been alone with some other franchises, remember, because at the time, rookies that were drafted, one or two got enormous amounts of money. Stafford, jamarcus, Russell. Think of where we're at now. The Arizona Cardinals, who are a joke franchise, can constantly pay people to go away because he has so much money coming in from the TV revenue. So when you factor in programs like the Bills and the Ravens, these big money franchises, they can kind of do whatever they want. But these owners back in the 70s and 80s, they would have paid people to go away if they could have afforded to do it when they were mad at their coaches or players. They just couldn't have. So things change.
- [41:34]
Colin
I mean, the NFL at the end of their fiscal year writes a check to every NFL ownership group, right?
- [41:42]
John Middelkoff
Yeah.
- [41:43]
Colin
What was the check last year? $440 million. So that's just what the NFL pays you to own a team. That's from the TV deal. Do you know the money, the game day revenue at Sofi Stadium. I talked to Stan Kroenke and asked him what it was. He gave me a lot of insight. He wouldn't tell me the number, the.
- [42:02]
John Middelkoff
Game day gross revenue, $40 million or something.
- [42:07]
Colin
I don't know that much. I would just say this. Over the course of a season, I think you could easily add another hundred million of the Rams in beer, food, tickets. Game day revenue, Sunday revenue, was it 80 to 100 million. So now you're at 450. Okay, now you're at 550. Well, and again, I'm not even sure if this counts the way they do it. Of all the retail these owners like Kraft have around Foxborough, around Gillette Stadium. So when your annual revenue just from your eight, nine home games, they also have preseason games, which are. I think that's baked into the season ticket thing. Then also if you're well run, you get home playoff games.
- [42:54]
John Middelkoff
You're not even factoring in all the other stuff that goes on at the stadium. I remember one time when I worked for the Eagles. Don Smolinski, who's now the president, back then he was like the vp used to work out in the morning. And sometimes I go there and work out before work, like early. And then you shower, head to work. And I remember showering. His locker was by my locker. And Taylor Swift this 2010, so she's not Taylor Swift today, had just played a concert there on like a Sunday or Saturday. This is the off season. And I started talking, I love talking to him, picking his brain, business wise. And he said, I basically said how does this work financially? And he essentially said, well, when they left, we cut her manager for her operation. A seven figure check again. This is 2010. That's what we paid her. Obviously they're making way more for the event. So when you're talking concerts and all the events at these stadiums, which all these NFL stadiums are hosting, from Taylor Swift to the rolling stones to WWE, those revenue generators that even if they pay the WWE or Taylor Swift $5 million, 10 minutes, what are they making? So when you factor in all that, that's why all these people want these new stadiums. Mark Davis changed the course of the Raiders financially even before Brady and his money guys came in. The moment they went into that place in Vegas and that revenue generator started pump when Jed York moved to Levi's Stadium. I mean they host everything from Royal Rumbles to any big concert. The money they make, even if they only, they, they don't get 100% of it. Even if you give them 20%. If that's how many days you're only hosting how many football games. Right. So the money they have coming in from these events is astronomical. I mean, you've been saying forever there's a reason all these guys have these $150 million yachts. They are, they sweating the gas on that thing.
- [44:37]
Colin
You're, you're getting the league checks, you're getting the game day revenue. And I don't know what the game day revenue is. I just know so far I've been told Sofi game day revenue is enormous for Raiders.
- [44:49]
John Middelkoff
Doesn't he get two games because he rents it to, to Dean, so he gets, he gets both teams.
- [44:54]
Colin
Yeah. I'm not sure how that deal works. I know the Chargers have a hell of a deal. The Spanos has built a new facility. They're rolling in money. They paid Harbaugh staff, Herbert, you know, Khalil Mack, they'll, they'll, they're spending the most money they've ever spent. And to your point, these, these stadiums broker deals. Listen, when, when people like the Walmart family, the Walton family, you know, are buying teams, you know that that's a pretty good indication. This is one of the great businesses in America and it's not going away. I, I, I usually judge sports by what my friends like. And my friends kind of bailed on baseball for years. They're kind of back into baseball. I feel like I am, I care more about baseball. The right teams are winning the sports faster. It's much more consumable. But I'm right now, I Feel like I've kind of disconnected from the NBA. I am so into the NFL, college football and I' in the off season in baseball because again, the right teams are winning. I the NBA has always been so fearful of dynasties and I'm like one of the reasons I'm back in baseball. The Yankees, the Cubs and the Dodgers are good and the Phillies are good. Those are like blue blood teams. I like blue. I like when the Celtics, the Lakers, the warriors, the Knicks. I like when they're good. The Sixers, I don't know my. I think I like when those teams are good.
- [46:11]
John Middelkoff
I think one issue Adam Silver has is financially they just 3x their dealers so they have to worry about anything in terms of financial. They have a third of the league that doesn't try that starts tanking in November and December.
- [46:22]
Colin
Brutal.
- [46:22]
John Middelkoff
Brutal. That is something that it kind of. They battled it for a while. It felt like it was getting a little. It is in full force right now at these last couple of years and that those teams. Just do the math. Those 10 teams are constantly playing the good teams. You have unwatchable product constantly. Even in the NFL you get bad teams but the teams play hard. No one's trying to lose. That's why we make fun of the bad teams. The Titans tried to win every game they played.
- [46:46]
Colin
Right.
- [46:47]
John Middelkoff
So the NBA, I mean some of these teams start losing, which is sad. I mean I grew up loving the NBA. Grew up right around Sacramento Biorco Arena. I honestly, Colin, I don't think I've watched a half of the NBA this year. Now I follow the sport. Right. Like I know what's going on, but I don't watch the product. And it is. And you hear the wind horse of the world like tanking is a. It is. They've poured gasoline on the fire right now it's really bad. Which understandable because there are six or seven kids in this draft. That's the only way to improve your team is a nail a pick. But that's bad for the business of the league throughout. I don't know what's a six month season. I mean you get a third of the league is not trying. Not trying actively not trying. That's. I don't know. I don't know how you fix it but that's. That's a. That's a major issue.
- [47:35]
Colin
Indiana Hoosier Football 27 Miami Hurricanes valiant effort. 21 3rd straight Big Ten champ. Congrats to the Hoosiers. Well earned. 16 0. That hasn't happened I think since a Yale team. I don't know what the hell they were doing not playing with helmets back in the 180016 games. I don't think they had helmets. If they did, they didn't look like these helmets. John is always good fun.
- [48:03]
John Middelkoff
Adios.
- [48:06]
Colin
The Volume.
- [48:09]
Podcast Host
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