Colin Cowherd Podcast - Jalen Brunson Most “Popular” Knick Ever? Caitlin Clark vs Angel Reece Rivalry, “Tush Push” Survives

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Herd with Colin Cowherd – May 22, 2025

Episode: "Colin Cowherd Podcast - Jalen Brunson Most 'Popular' Knick Ever? Caitlin Clark vs Angel Reese Rivalry, 'Tush Push' Survives"

In this dynamic episode of "The Herd with Colin Cowherd," host Colin Cowherd and guest Danny Parkin delve into pressing sports topics, offering insightful analysis and spirited debates. Released on May 22, 2025, the episode tackles three major themes: the burgeoning popularity of Jalen Brunson with the New York Knicks, the intense rivalry between college basketball stars Caitlin Clark and Angel Reese, and the NFL’s controversial decision to retain the “tush push” play. Below is a detailed summary of the key discussions, insights, and conclusions drawn during the episode.

---

1. Jalen Brunson: Could He Be the Most Popular Knick Ever?

Timestamp: [32:33] – [40:09]

Summary: Colin Cowherd and Danny Parkin explore the rising prominence of Jalen Brunson within the New York Knicks franchise. Colin posits that Brunson has the potential to surpass historical Knicks legends in popularity due to his relatable persona and clutch performances. He highlights Brunson’s connection with younger fans and his consistent impact on the court.

Notable Quotes:

• Colin Cowherd: “Jalen Brunson is relatable. He's the size of the average fan. Villanova. So you found him in college. He was an East Coast star at Villanova... He's a great clutch shot maker” ([32:46], 32:46).
• Danny Parkin: “I don't think you can be the most popular Nick if you don't win a title” ([35:48], 35:48).

Insights:

• Relatability and Performance: Brunson’s work ethic and clutch plays resonate with the current Knicks fanbase, potentially elevating his status beyond previous Knicks icons.
• Historical Comparison: Unlike legends such as Walt Frazier or Patrick Ewing, Brunson appeals to a younger demographic that may not be as familiar with past stars, positioning him uniquely for long-term popularity.

2. Caitlin Clark vs Angel Reese: Racial and Media Dynamics of the Rivalry

Timestamp: [40:58] – [50:49]

Summary: The hosts shift their focus to the heated rivalry between Caitlin Clark and Angel Reese in women’s college basketball. Colin emphasizes how this rivalry has heightened the visibility and competitiveness of the sport, while Danny critiques the negative media narrative that often accompanies their interactions, suggesting that it exacerbates racial tensions and distracts from their athletic prowess.

Notable Quotes:

• Colin Cowherd: “Caitlin Clark's not that hard to explain. Holy shit. She's taking shots that some NBA players wouldn't take... She's a comet, because it doesn't look like anything else” ([47:33], 47:33).
• Danny Parkin: “It's the worst story in sports media... It brings out the worst in everybody” ([43:45], 43:45).

Insights:

• Media Influence: The portrayal of Clark and Reese’s rivalry by the media often frames their interactions in a negative light, overshadowing their skills and contributions to the game.
• Racial Dynamics: There are underlying racial components in how the rivalry is perceived and discussed, which the hosts believe warrants deeper conversation to shift the narrative towards mutual respect and athletic excellence.

3. NFL's "Tush Push": Balancing Entertainment and Safety

Timestamp: [56:03] – [65:08]

Summary: Colin and Danny debate the NFL’s decision to retain the “tush push” play, a tactic used in short-yardage situations. Colin criticizes the play for compromising player safety and degrading the sport’s integrity, arguing that it prioritizes entertainment over the well-being of the athletes. Danny discusses the league’s voting process and the influence of key executives like Jason Kelce in maintaining the play despite safety concerns.

Notable Quotes:

• Colin Cowherd: “This breaks... It's ugly television and it looks like it's going to get somebody hurt” ([56:23], 56:23).
• Danny Parkin: “They just didn't get to the 75% threshold” ([59:07], 59:07).

Insights:

• Safety Concerns: The “tush push” has raised alarms regarding potential injuries, and Colin argues that its retention sets a poor precedent for the sport’s future.
• League Dynamics: Danny highlights the complexities within the NFL’s decision-making process, pointing out that while a majority may favor banning the play, a supermajority is required to enact such changes, allowing the play to survive.
• Future Implications: There’s a risk that endorsing gimmicky plays like the “tush push” could lead to more such tactics, potentially necessitating future bans to preserve the game’s integrity.

---

Conclusion

Throughout the episode, Colin Cowherd and Danny Parkin provide a comprehensive examination of their chosen topics, blending statistical analysis with personal opinions. Their discussion on Jalen Brunson’s potential legacy, the nuanced dynamics of the Caitlin Clark and Angel Reese rivalry, and the NFL’s stance on the “tush push” play, offer listeners a multifaceted view of contemporary sports issues. By incorporating notable quotes with timestamps, the summary captures the essence of their debates and provides clear insights for both regular listeners and newcomers.

Notable Quotes Recap:

• Jalen Brunson’s Relatability: “He's a great clutch shot maker” ([32:46]).
• Knicks’ Historical Legends: “I don't think you can be the most popular Nick if you don't win a title” ([35:48]).
• Caitlin Clark’s Impact: “She's a comet, because it doesn't look like anything else” ([47:33]).
• Media Portrayal Critique: “It's the worst story in sports media... It brings out the worst in everybody” ([43:45]).
• NFL’s "Tush Push" Criticism: “It's ugly television and it looks like it's going to get somebody hurt” ([56:23]).
• League Voting Process: “They just didn't get to the 75% threshold” ([59:07]).

This detailed summary ensures that all key discussions, insights, and conclusions from the podcast are captured, providing a valuable overview for those who haven’t listened to the full episode.

Transcript

[A]

You're listening to an iHeart podcast. T Mobile's stats are as impressive as your favorite athlete's highlight reel. Because T Mobile helps keep you connected from the heart of Portland to right where you are on America's largest 5G network. Switch now keep your phone and T Mobile will pay it off at the $800 per line via prepaid card. Visit your local T Mobile location or learn more@t mobile.com KeepAndSwitch up to 4 lines of your virtual prepaid card. Allow 15 days qualifying unlock device, credit service port in 90 plus days device.

[B]

And eligible carrier and timely redemption. Required card has no cash access and.

[A]

Expires in six months. Just like how true champs master both offense and defense, the BMW IX masters both ultimate performance and unbeatable space. Love mine. The greatest legends in sports never compromise in any aspect of their game. So why would you settle for anything less from your suv? What I love about my BMW IX is that it redefines the electric vehicle experience seamlessly integrates powerful performance, its bold, daring design, a refined interior, details, cutting edge technology. Basically pushes the boundaries of innovation. Thousands of details went into creating the ultimate electric SUV compromise.

[B]

Not one of them Oikos presents 15.

[A]

Seconds of strength Here we go. Steve's got a trunk full of groceries and no one to help him. Oh, that's tough.

[B]

Jim looks like a five trip load at least.

[A]

He grabs the first bag the second Bob.

[B]

It looks like he's trying to do.

[A]

It all one trip. He shimmies the door open, steps over the dog. Oh, and he stumbles. Oh, right into the kitchen without missing a beat. Jim.

[B]

Now that's a man who eats his.

[A]

Pro protein packed Oikos with 15 grams of complete protein in each cup. Oikos Triple Zero can help build strength for every day. Oikos Stronger makes everything better. Summer is almost here and you can now get almost anything you need for your sunny days delivered with Uber Eats. Now what do we mean by almost? Well, you can't get a well groomed lawn delivered, but you can get chicken parm delivered. A nice tan? Sorry. A box fan? Happily, yes. A day of sunshine? No. A box of fine wines? Yes. Uber Eats can definitely get you that. Get almost almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol in select markets. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. The volume at the end of the season, there's only one team that can call themselves NBA champs. Only one player that can call themselves the number one pick in the NFL draf. Well, there's only one electric SUV Worthy of the title. The ultimate, the all electric BMW ix. What I love about the IX is that it delivers legendary BMW performance. I've had several. While its sleek design exudes innovative style from the inside out, not to mention how much space and utility it provides. Over 75 cubic feet of cargo space. The IX is completely changing the game with an all electric suv. The the greatest legends of sports never compromise any part of the game. So why would you settle for anything less from your SUV? After all, there's only one ultimate the BMW iX. Everything you love about the ultimate driving machine. Electrified BMW. All right, let's chop it up for an hour with Danny Parkins. Former Chicago kid lived his dream on the radio. Left the city to go to FS1 because I talked him into it. That was part of it. And now I live in Chicago and I just jumped off the train. Taking the train from the Ogilvy center to Winnetka is pure joy. Nobody bothers you. It's the best. Now the mornings are a little dicey. So I've been experimenting, Danny. For the first three weeks I've been experimenting. I've discovered that Monday is not a bad traffic day. I'll take a driver. Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday are hell. I'll take the train. And weather screws everything up to make the drive even worse. Is that kind of the understanding in Chicago that Monday's the best drive day?

[B]

Oh man. So here's the thing. The Kennedy is just under this unbelievable construction project right now that just makes everything hellacious. It was the thing I was most excited to leave Chicago about because I drove in, I drove myself locally radio and drove in and drove out. And where my radio studio was, was nowhere near Ogilvy. And if I wanted to get home in time to see my little kids before bed, I needed to get on the road as fast as possible as opposed to walking across the loop. So you're, you're on it. But just so you know, it can change in a moment's notice. Like your 3 week sample size of the hellacious Chicago commute is not enough because the express lanes will be randomly closed. At some point they will do some other non nonsense construction project that instead of three years will take seven. So generally speaking though, if you feel like you can do the Metra, the metro is great because you never will be bothered. Colin, you're like the most famous person in Chicago that isn't an athlete.

[A]

So.

[B]

So like these people that are commuting to the North Shore of Chicago, they're probably like, is that Colin Coward. No, it couldn't be. It's probably a banker. And then they'll just go on with their day. So I promise you, you will never be both.

[A]

No, it's great. I've never taken the train. I've had friends in New York that did. And people, all walks of life, kids, college, successful Wall street. And they're always like, yeah, I read on the train. I listened to a Sam Harris pod today with Jake tapper. It was 33 minutes. I got through most of it. It was like, this is great. So I was like, I don't know. I always try to find the positive in stuff. And I was like, you know, I'll listen to even more podcasts. It's 35 minutes. I always said I wrote my first book on a plane. Every time I. At that time, I was going a lot from ESPN to la, so I was going to call the book shots fired from 33,000ft. And then at some.

[B]

I like it.

[A]

And at some point, something happened in the country and I was like, that's not appropriate or something. But I've always found planes and trains. It's really. You're just really isolated. And I just go to work.

[B]

Yeah. So I, I, you know, I'm car in because there are no trains from the suburbs in New York that I live in that run as early as we have to be in for breakfast Ball. So I go car in and train out and the train out. You know, it's great because it's a good excuse to get work done. It's a good excuse to veg out. Yeah, it's a good. Just like, it's a good excuse to be selfish. It's not. There's no quiet cars, so if you need to make a phone call, you can. But I really don't like to. I like to just kind of do my thing and make it my me time to decompress. And, yeah, if you can be productive, airplane productivity is the best. Because now there's WI fi on planes and you can text and email and be connected to the world, but it's also a very easy lie. Oh, you know, the WI fi was down, my phone wasn't working. And you're like, no one really expects you to be connected at 33,000ft for whatever reason. So the ability to just completely decompress and unplug from the world is a joyous thing.

[A]

I told my wife we were talking about my happiest place. Like, when am I happiest? And obviously, when I was a young dad, it would Be like, hearing my kids laugh or being at the beach with my kids and just seeing your kids have the time of their life at Disney. When I used to go to Disney, there's just nothing better than being on a ride with your daughter and she's screaming and you're laughing and it's bad food. That's the most fun I've ever had in my life. But one of my happy places. Now, I tell my wife once a year in the summer, we try to go to Europe somewhere, and I'm going to visit my son in a couple weeks, and he's doing some school in London. And I said, hey, I'll come join you. We'll go to Copenhagen for a couple of days. Let's just, you know. And I made him a promise a few years ago, at least every other year, so you and I get on a plane and go somewhere around the world. And so. And I told my wife, I said, you know, getting on a good business seat, heading to Europe, knowing you're getting free wine, a great movie, sleep and a meal, I'm like, God, that makes me happy. That's just. And I know I don't have to work for, like, 10 days. And I used to hate vacations when you started. I didn't like vacations. I didn't want to be off. And now it's like, no.

[B]

Yeah. Well, once you're established and you feel like you can take it, you know. And now, in a weird way, I've started over because I've transitioned into this new career, this new profile, trying to build a national profile and all of those things. But, yeah, beginning in radio, I would never take off, or if I took off from my job in Kansas City, I would fill in in Chicago for them on Christmas. Like, I would come home and work Black Friday, work Christmas Eve, Christmas Day on the Chicago stations, just to get the reps, because I was so excited to be on, you know, in the big city and in my hometown. And then when you get the first job in Chicago, you feel like you can't take off. But then when you get, like, good ratings and success and drive time, then, you know, it wasn't as big of a deal to take off. And now it's easy because they don't let you take off. We do so many shows, it's unbelievable. We did a Thanksgiving show, we did a Christmas Eve show. We're working Memorial Day, we worked New Year's Day. So it's funny. Like, the cycle of these jobs, it starts over again. But I'm with you, but I don't love flying. But the act of flying to somewhere is the. Is the greatest because it's the beginning. It's like limitless. Like the flight to Vegas when I was like young, single and I was like, I have $500 and anything's possible.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Like the flight to Vegas in my 20s was like the happiest of my entire life. Other than my kids, obviously.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Those things that you're supposed to a lot.

[A]

That's what I feel about Europe. I'm like, I got 10 days here and I. That can unplug really quickly when I know I don't work. If I take a three day. I take a lot of three day weekends in the summer. And you never really unplug. You know, if something happens, I write it down. I want. I want it for the show on Monday, but so I'll get to my happy place pretty quick, you know, it was. Two things can be true. Number one is the NBA got $76 billion. They're good. Number two, number two, hockey, baseball, MLS and the NBA. Regular seasons will never matter as much as they used to because there's just too much content. We're all distracted. Young people don't watch as much television. And I was looking at the game last night between the T Wolves and OKC and I was thinking, oh, yeah, this isn't going to work. This is not going to pull a number. The Knicks Pacers will. But I was watching Minnesota okc and I'm like, this is Adam Silver's want. This is the league he wants. He doesn't want stacked teams. He inherited that league from David Stern. He heard he's a very, if not idealistic, he's kind of a. He's very pro employee. Like, he listens to his employees. David Stern could bulldoze you. This is what I'm going to do. He had two or three agents and five or six owners he was close to. Silver is more about the collaborative and the fabric of the league. But he also inherited a very successful league from Stern. Stern ended up trying to kind of save the league. So David was like, Nike, Jordan, Magic Bird, big markets. That's what we're going to do. So it's a different time. But I look at, I think this is now the NBA with a new cab that Adam Silver wanted. But I watched two things can be true. I watch Minnesota and Oklahoma City. I don't. I think that will get a dreadful national number. Am I wrong?

[B]

I don't think you're wrong, but I Also don't care. Like I'm not a television executive. I'm not in business with, like I'm not, I'm not in business with the NBA. I, you know, I don't care. I think that we should be talking about it on our shows because I think sports fans will watch it. Will they watch it at the exact same clip as the Eastern Conference Finals? No, obviously not. Market size, relevance, people know New York, all of those sort of things. That, that's all fine. I have a lot of thoughts on last night's game, the Thunder, the discourse. But we can start with your premise about the the league that Adam Silver wants. This is a historic time for the NBA. This will be the first time ever that there are seven different champions in seven years. Not no back to backs, but last seven years, seven different organizations will have won the NBA title. And so I looked it up. Heyday of the NBA, everyone says is, you know, Bird, Magic, Jordan, Kobe, shaq, Lakers. Right. 1980 through the early 2000s. If you go from the 1980 NBA Finals when Magic Johnson came in and played center and replaced Kareem, maybe the most famous game of his career through just before the first, the Dwyane Wade Shaq Heat title, 26 years 1980 to 2005, seven different teams won a championship.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So the heyday of the NBA. 25, 26 years. Seven champions now. Seven champions in seven years. Dynasties are good for sports. They make people care. You love them, you hate them, you have opinions. They are good for national ratings. But I do think that in the long run, even if there is a 5% dip, a 10% dip in ratings, I do think long term this will be good for the NBA because there will be some belief that I think they will legitimately be able to sell of anybody can win.

[A]

Listen to this. I just got this from our Goldie, our producer just sent me this. T wolf Sunder, game one down 24% from last year. Least watched game one conference final since 2021. There you go.

[B]

Okay, fine. It's like small markets, people that not everybody knows yet, but also a blowout. Like let's see how that goes over the course of time. Also, this is a. You're a media observer. Okay. I understand why the Western Conference finals have to start later than the Eastern Conference finals, but when it ends up being Oklahoma City in Minnesota, does it have to be 8:30 Eastern?

[A]

Right.

[B]

I'm. Am I crazy? Like, like the Eastern Conference finals will start at 8pm Eastern. And I. If it was, if it was, if it was Lakers, Warriors. I get why they need every minute possible to try to pack the building and respect the people leaving work on the West Coast. But. And I know that these things are predetermined ahead of time. Eastern Conference games are going to start at 8. Western Conference games are going to start at 8, 30. But when it's two teams in Central time zone, that game ends after 11pm Eastern on a school night. That can't help. That can't help what you're talking about with, with the rating. So I wish that they had a.

[A]

Little bit more flexibility.

[B]

Flexibility when it comes to schedule.

[A]

You know, the other thing I thought about last night is that I don't know how many shots Ant took. It was like 13 or something. He didn't shoot 13. And he's. He's a great player. But this is the difference how great Michael Jordan was. Jordan last night, probably in a losing cause, if he played for Minnesota, would have taken 39 shots. Is that Michael never had a game that I can remember, a big one. Even the flu game where you're like, Michael took 13 shots. His generation, Michael didn't care Michael was going to go down. Michael's the most relentlessly competitive person I've ever seen. I mean, Ink, magic, bird, everybody, LeBron, Steph, it doesn't matter. Is that Jayson Tatum? There are times I'm like, Izzy on the floor. Last night in the second half, I'm like, is Ant playing? Is that everybody's rich in the league? It's a much more, you know, collaborative. I mean, Michael Jordan had no problem saying, hey, Republicans buy shoes too. I'm not talking politics. If you. It'd be hard to say that today is a professional athlete. You'd get just destroyed by the collective, the media collective. But that's the difference. When people haven't seen Michael play. I always say that Michael never had a game or a moment where you went, is Michael on the floor? I mean, I remember a game against Utah in the finals. I remember a game against Phoenix in the finals. He took a jumper from the angle, it hit backboard and floor. It didn't hit rim. It was a terrible shot. They had games against Utah where he was like 7 for 33. But there is something about everybody being rich and everybody has the same four agents and they all like each other. That there isn't. There is. There is a real sense. There's tomorrow. Don't expend your energy. And I watched Minnesota the second half, and I'm like, oh, they're done tonight. They're done tonight.

[B]

They were clearly done early. Listen, I will give Anthony Edwards the. He went back to the locker room with the ankle injury and I don't know how much pain he was in. Yeah, like, I maybe. Right. But here's the thing about last night's game. I was. I was appalled as some of the discourse of SGA is a foul Merchants. The Thunder aren't watchable. I don't like their brand of basketball. I know he was just announced as the mvp, but he hadn't won the MVP yet. He has no finals appearances. He has no rings. If people are already sick of the Thunder and you're an actual basketball fan, the next 10 years of your basketball viewing are going to be miserable. They're the youngest playoff team in the league. They're younger than the Pistons. Their oldest starter is 27 years old. Shea is 26. Jalen Williams and Chet are like 23 each. And Sam Presti is the best executive in the sport. Their coach was a finalist for coach of the year after winning it last year. And they have every draft pick for the next decade. And people like SGA is a foul merchant. They talk about him like he's James Harden. He drives to the rim more than any player in the league. Not this year, not these playoffs. For five straight years, Shea Gilchrist Alexander has led the NBA in drives to the basket. Minnesota took 51 threes last.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Right. Oklahoma City took 21 and the free throw discrepancy was five. And people were like, oh, the refs are in it for small market Oklahoma City and zero time mvp sga. No, that's how he plays.

[A]

Right?

[B]

And so like, that game was a blowout and got hurt. There was no reason to watch the fourth quarter of the game. The ratings were down. Okay, fine. But man, I don't understand how people all year can be like, they don't play defense. Like the collective league. The league doesn't play defense and all they do is shoot threes. And now you have a young, up and coming, historically great defensive team with a guy who scores from everywhere on the floor and you're like, I hate that too. Like, is anybody satisfied? Well, do we have to. Do we have to bring Michael Jordan back from his fishing boat to play? Is that the only way people will not complain during an NBA game? It drives me insane.

[A]

The NBA Finals are almost here and every play could be the one that changes everything. This is the NBA playoffs. Heroes rise, legacies are built. The action never lets up. And with DraftKings Sportsbook, an official sports betting partner of the NBA. You don't just watch the madness, you live it. I do. Back your favorite team. Ride with your clutch time Killer betting the buzzer beaters, the breakout performances, the game winning three. They have player props, same game parlays. It's how you take your fandom to the next level. If you're new to the game, no sweat. Download the DraftKings sportsbook app. Takes 90 seconds bet 5 bucks. That's it. 5 bucks. That's it. If your bet wins, you'll score $300 in bonus bets. Pretty easy. Download the app from DraftKingsportsbook. The code is Colin C O L I N C O L I N 300 bucks in bonus bets. If a $5 bet wins only on DraftKings, the crown is yours. Gambling Problem Call 1-800- gambler in New York, call 877-8-HOPENY or text HOPENY at 467-369 in Connecticut. Help is available for problem gambling. Call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org Please play responsibly on behalf of Boothill Casino and Resort in Kansas, 21 and over. Age and eligibility varies by jurisdiction. Void in Ontario. Bet must win to receive reward. Bonus bets expire 168 hours after issuance. For additional terms and responsible gaming resources, see DKNG Audio. Still running your business? On yesterday's tech? It's time for an upgrade. Meet the ThinkPad X1 Carbon Gen 12, Lenovo's ultralight, ultra powerful laptop. Built to keep up with your work, your team and your non stop schedule. It's sleek, weighs just over a kilo and packs serious power. With Intel Core Ultra processors, you can unlock new AI experience and also you can work, create and keep productivity flowing all on one device. Security covered Lenovo's ThinkShield protects your device, your data, your identity so you can focus on what actually matters, getting things done. And with built in AI features, everything runs smoothly and efficiently so you're not stuck watching loading bars all day. Need crystal clear visuals? The 14 inch OLED display makes spreadsheets sharper, presentations pop, and video calls feel like face to face meetings. And if you're looking for extra perks, Lenovo Pro hooks you up with exclusive business benefits and savings. Stop hitting snooze on new tech. Win the tech. Search for business [e-mail] and upgrade the ThinkPad X1 carbon and experience next level performance. That's lenovo.com Oikos presents 15 seconds of strength Here we go. Steve's got a trunk full of groceries and no one to help him. Oh, that's tough.

[B]

Jim looks like a five trip load at least.

[A]

He grabs the first bag, the second bob.

[B]

It looks like he's trying to do it all.

[A]

One trip. He shimmies the door open, steps over the dog. Oh, and he stumbles. Oh, right into the kitchen without missing a beat. Jim.

[B]

Now that's a man who eats his.

[A]

Protein packed Oikos with 15 grams of complete protein in each cup. Oikos Triple Zero can help build strength for every day. Oikos Stronger makes everything better. Summer is almost here, and you can now get almost anything you need for your sunny days delivered with Uber Eats. Now, what do we mean by almost? Well, you can't get a well groomed lawn delivered, but you can get chicken parm delivered. A day at the lake? That's a no. A Philly cheesesteak? That's a yes. A nice tan. Sorry. A box fan? Happily, yes. What about a day of sunshine? Not happening. How about a box of fine wines? Yeah, that's happening. Delivery's on its way. Okay, how about some clear skies? Nope. Well, how about some French fries? Yeah. So how about a freshly cut lawn in can't help you there but a barbecued prawn or it and it's on its way. Even throw in some paper towels. Clean up after the feast. So while you can't get fun in the sun delivered, don't worry because you can get pork buns delivered. Uber Eats can definitely get you that. Get almost almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol in select markets. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details.

[C]

This podcast is sponsored by Total Wireless, the official wireless partner of ufc. So when you're streaming the fight or sharing those takedown highlights, you need a wireless provider that keeps you close to the action. With Total Wireless, you're covered by the Verizon 5G network, so you don't have to worry about your connection being knocked out at the biggest moments. It's not something you can usually say about a wireless provider, but Total Wireless really has your back. They're in your corner every second of the day, so you never miss a thing. They keep you covered for just $25 a month with four lines without sacrificing the essentials like speed. With Total, you get unlimited 5G data so you can stay ahead of the action and keep up with every knockout. Total Wireless understands you can't afford surprise blows any more than your favorite fighter can. That's why the price is guaranteed for five years, taxes and fees included. The best fighters don't make it to the Octagon alone. They have all in support along the way and it shouldn't be any different for you. So visit totalwireless.com or visit your local Total Wireless store to learn more about how Total Wireless can be in your corner. 5G access requires a 5G capable device and a 5G service area. Monthly rate on the Total Base 5G Unlimited plan for new subscribers applies only to the monthly rate for your plan. Additional terms apply. See website for details.

[A]

Let me throw a theory at you. I talked about it on my show today. I think you'll like this. So I talked about it for like as you can do on our show for four minutes. I could talk about it with you for 10. So one of the things I love about sports, I think you know this theories, cultural changes, trying to see them as they're happening in real time, right? So take out the last two. Zach Edie made the all rookie team okay three years ago. It's like can't play just a college guy. Why was everybody so wrong a year ago? Mark Fews like if he can't play NBA, it's an NBA problem. But Danny Hurley's like you can't tell me he's not an NBA player. He's the hardest guy I've ever done a game prep for. There's no way we're going to stop it. Mark Fews said, all my years at Gonzaga, hardest player to defend. We have nobody in the program. And then he hits the UConn team that had two guys make the all rookie team the big in Portland and then a Donovan. Oh God.

[B]

What? Clingan?

[A]

Yes, clinging. My bad. And then the kid from San Antonio, Stephen Castle. So two things have happened in the last two years of college basketball. Zaki's dominance translated to the NBA and that UConn team that crushed people even in the tournament really was full of excellent NBA players. Why do I say that? Because for the previous 20 years guys like Doug McDermott won player of the year and were at best rotational players. So why is this happening? NIL has saved college basketball. So Nil is keeping guys like Zach Eady NBA guys in one more year or they choose college over G league or international. A story today that Real Madrid and Barcelona's amateur teams and this Spain has all the great European young players. They're thinking of folding the league because American Nil money is taking all the European kids over here. So what is happening? So this European system that we were so enamored with, oh, no, no, those kids are now going to play college. The G Leaguers are going to play college. What does it do? First two rounds this year, March Madness, highest in 32 years. The quality was much better. Houston, Florida, UConn. Those are NBA players. So we went through about a 20 year cycle kind of at the end of Grant Hill and those kind of guys, Larry Johnson and all that stuff. Right? Those are. If you dominated college, you were going to be a good pro. And then when about 25, 30 years, you're like Jimmer for debt. Doug McDermott, Tyler Hansborough, you could dominate college and be a rotational player. And I think it hurt the quality of the game. But between that Barcelona story, between the ratings and Zach edie and the UConn guys, what you're seeing now is college basketball is a rebirth that when you're watching it in March and a guy is dominating. So long story. What is this? What does this mean in terms of okc? They have stockpiled all these draft picks and we always assumed okc Danny was going to use those picks to get a. Giannis don't give those picks up. The draft now is going to be like this year's draft. You're like, oh, there's like seven domestic players in the top 10 and they're all really, really good. Is that the idea that you give out your picks for Giannis if you don't like OKC now with all those picks, these are going to be NBA players coming out of college now that can play almost immediately.

[B]

Yeah, I think it's a great point. And the guy who accumulated the picks happens to have a better record in both eras of what you're talking about, of nailing the picks. So like Sam Presti, everybody, everybody has misses, but he has fewer than than most. Like he traded for sga, but on his rookie deal, like SGA was just available and he traded for him. He sniped him. He traded. This is not a college player, not a young player. So not a perfect example. Like Alex Caruso wins them game seven. Alex Caruso was on the Lakers. They offered him three years, $21 million. The Bulls offered him three for 37 and restricted free agency. And the Lakers were like, no, we'd rather have Taylor, Horton, Tucker. So he went to Chicago. Then the Bulls trade Alex Caruso to Sam Presley for Josh Giddey. Josh Giddey, nice player, fills up the stat sheet. Fun, young, high upside guy. Not saying anything bad about Josh Giddey, but Alex Caruso clearly is a championship pedigree player, elite defensive player. And Sam Presti has approximately 327extra draft picks and the Bulls couldn't get one of them in that trade for Alex Caruso. I read that trade and I was like, oh, that's funny, they got Josh Kitty. But like, what's the draft pick? And it never came. They like, so Sam, Rusty is just great at this. He's great at it. And I agree with you. They will keep a lot of those assets. You can only have 12 guys on a team and like they traded Josh Giddey because there wasn't a spot for him.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Like, they had too many good young backcourt players that were cheap. That's not a problem most teams have. So I don't think he'll use every draft pick, you know, but he can, he can, he can go out and get any player he wants whenever he decides to cash his chips in. I don't think it'll be for Giannis, but I think it'll be for cheap labor because they want guys on their rookie deal who they can sign to second contracts because free agents aren't historically going to choose Oklahoma City. And he can just say, oh, we're. What's the one thing we're not elite at three point shooting? Who's the best 3 and D guy in the NBA on a rookie contract? I want him and he can go get him like that. That, that's what I don't think people completely understand about what Oklahoma. Like if Oklahoma City said we want Giannis, they would win. If Oklahoma City said we want Durant, they would win. If fill in the blank superstar becomes disgruntled and they. If the Mavericks were like, we're going to hold a bidding war for Luka Doncic and Sam Presti's like, I want him, they would win. They have more assets than everybody in the league and it isn't particularly close. So I don't know how he'll play use this poker chips, but I know that he's more likely than not going to be right. He will prioritize young, cheap labor. And to your point, he's not going to trade as many of the draft picks as people think because he's excellent at drafting.

[A]

Yeah, the. You know, I was thinking about this the other day as the is when people listen to this game, one of the Knicks Pacers will be over and I thought, I think Jalen Brunson has a chance to be the most popular Knick ever.

[B]

So I'll explain the interesting that's a thought.

[A]

Any kid under 35 didn't see Walt Frazier play or Earl Monroe play. Eliminate those players. The young demographic which loves the NBA didn't watch him play. Patrick Ewing's a center. They don't sell shoes. They don't become coaches. They're just looked at as genetically unique human beings. The greatest of all of them, Kareem Abdul Jabbar, was stoic. Never a broadcaster, never really a coach. Didn't get opportunities. They don't become the most popular player. Shaq is a complete outlier because he's a big personality. Barkley's still the star of that show. And then you say, well, Bernard King, nice guy. Injuries cut short a great career. Carmelo Anthony never really delivered in the postseason. Brunson is relatable. He's the size of the average fan. Villanova. So you found him in college. He was an east coast star at Villanova. A lot of Villanova people in New York and big east fans in New York, right? Oh, yeah, he's totally relatable. Like. Like he's. He's a great clutch shot maker, which. Say what you want, that is, you know, fourth quarter drives make quarterbacks and shot makers make Jordan. And the other thing is, the NBA now is moving into a time you can't stack a roster. And so it's not a coincidence. The four best players on the four best teams are all guards. Because if you don't have a stacked roster and you have a collection of B2B plus players, the point guard will control tempo and touches for everybody. And pace. The league is going to become a pace, tempo, point guard, league. It's not going to be buying the best wings and centers. You can't anymore. You're just not going to have that anymore. Boston's going to unravel here in the next year or at least move off many of their players. Is that when you look at Ewing is a center. Nobody saw Walt play. If you're under 37 years old. Bernard King, injuries. Carmelo Anthony never won. Brunson is going to be the most popular Knick within three years.

[B]

Okay. I mean, I'm not a New York Knicks historian. It strikes me as unlikely that he's going to be more popular. Because if you're just saying, like, no one under 37 remembers Clyde Frazier. It's like, okay, but there are a lot of people over 37, and he won two titles. He's on the All NBA team at 50. He's on the All NBA Team at 75. In terms of, you Know he's one of the greats in the history of the league and he's on their broadcasts. But Clyde Frazier, how he dresses, how he presents himself like Knicks fans who are young. Know who Clyde Frazier is.

[A]

Okay, so I want to stop you. There's Jerry. Jerry west was the logo built Laker championships and Magic was more popular.

[B]

That's okay. But do you think that, do you think that the Knicks are going to win the title?

[A]

I think the Knicks under Brunson are going to be a regular conference finals team with chances to get to the finals. New York sports outside of the Yankees historically have been so uneven and so inconsistent. I mean, two of the worst franchises in pro sports histor historically are the Mets and the jets and so. Sure. So you don't. I mean.

[B]

Well, no. And, and listen, the Knicks unite the city like New New York basketball, right? Like it's. They take a lot of pride in the best point guards come from New York and Rucker park and all of the college and AAU teams and all, all of the New York basketball royalty stuff, which I love and eat up. I'm like, there's a lot about it in my book. Like I, I'm all for all of the history of New York basketball. I don't think you can be the most popular Nick if you didn't win a title. And I don't think they're going to win a title. I think Oklahoma City would wax them. And this is a. I guess a hot take. Jalen Brunson has become a smidge overrated. A smidge overrated because he is crazy, likable. Everything you said is true. He won the clutch player of the year. But when I'm watching the games and I'm staying up late and I'm watching all of the games, I don't know how sustainable this is. He's on it. He doesn't pass either.

[A]

Did you and your Carmelo.

[B]

Okay, that, that is true. So maybe he fits right in. But like, listen, he hits every clutch shot. He's totally unafraid. I get why he's a fan favorite. I get why he's loved. He deserved clutch player of the year. He's a beloved Nick. No doubt about all of it. It's totally earned. The guy is not afraid of any moment. He's tough as hell. All of that is true. But you got Carl Anthony Towns and Mikel Bridges and I'm watching the ends of some of these games and he's like, well, Jalen Brunson, he just took the last 10 shots of the game except for one that Josh Hart got on an offensive rebound on a miss by Jalen Brunson. It just doesn't strike me as two a formula to win a championship. I can't think of one where it's like one guy just shoots every single time. No one is his peer at the end of the game and they're going to win a title. It's exciting. It reminds, they remind me a lot of one of my favorite teams ever. The 2010, 2012 Derrick Rose era Bulls.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Like yeah, Tibbs is the coach the now Derrick Rose. Even more local than Jalen Brunson. Chicago born and raised, like state championships in high school, the whole thing. But like right the neck. The Bulls drafted Derrick Rose, the Knicks trade for Brunson. So it's not complete apples to apples, but it's, it's close enough. Best player is a ball dominant guard team oriented. Those Bulls teams were better defensively than this Knicks team. But I know the Knicks fans say with Mitchell Robinson healthy, they're actually an elite defensive team, even though they never have been. But it's same coach, really hard nosed team, beloved point guard who you ride or die with them. And Derrick Rose was unbelievable. Youngest MVP in the history of the league. They were the one seed and then the only problem was he had to play LeBron James. And so when he played LeBron it was like, oh, they won game one and then they lose in five. And I think that's what's going to happen to the Knicks. Maybe not until they face the Thunder in the NBA finals. And so he'll advance a little further than those Bulls teams did. But I don't think you can win an NBA championship this way. I just don't. And I think that you can't be the most popular Nick of all time if you don't put a banner up in Madison Square Garden.

[A]

Well, I'm just more optimistic than you. Perhaps.

[B]

You are. You are. I mean I think they would get crushed by this.

[A]

Well, I think, I think the Thunder.

[B]

Yeah, I think the Thunder are going to win this championship and people are somehow going to say that they hate them. I don't know. That's what I think is happening here.

[A]

So I'm going to throw this at you. There are some genetic and gender realities that seem unfair to me. You're driving on the freeway. You're driving on the freeway. Be totally honest. If a skinny guy is in a car eating he's got burgers, you're thinking to yourself, that guy's on the go. He doesn't have time to stop. That guy is a hustler. He is making things happen. A heavyset guy in a car is eating burgers. You're like. And I am too. Oh, really? You can't even drive without eating. I mean, give me a break. Like, what? What? You can't. You can't pull over. You. You have to. It's a. It's a. We have no idea about those two people. That is how people view weight. We're all waitists at times. Gender. Gender.

[B]

I'm not saying no to your premise here, Colin. I can't. I love your analogies. Go ahead.

[A]

Here's a gender reality. Men can hate each other. Jordan still holds a grudge against Isaiah. Somehow it makes him more likable. Men can taunt, can trash talk. If Angel Reese appears to hate Caitlin Clark, it becomes a race topic. It is outrageous. It is unfair. And I'm like, time out. Women athletes can hate rivals, too. To me, I'm like, is it race? Well, hate is. It used to be a commodity. Like, you loved the Ryder cup, we hated the Euros. Now everybody's rich. But the Caitlin Clark, Angel Reese rivalry. One got the best of the other in college. The junior year, the other one got the best the senior year. One goes Midwest, small city, one goes big city, one gets more press.

[B]

I just.

[A]

I look at it and I think it doesn't bother me that Angel Reese doesn't like Caitlyn. Like, like, by the way, Caitlin's game is fun and flashy. Angel's a rebounder. Like, she probably got a little built in animosity. She won't get the press.

[B]

I think it's the worst story in sports media. I hate the discourse around it. I think. I think it's. I think it brings out the worst in everybody. I really do think it's just a lot of people are showing their ass on this story. Of course, what you just said is correct. One of my things. It's a trope. It's a cliche that I've just. I like the turn of phrase that I created. Less hate in the world, more hate in sports. Yeah, sports hate is good. It is objectively good. Now when it leads to, like, fights in the stands. Okay, fine, someone took it too far. But that doesn't mean that it is a bad thing. Trash talk, rivalries, bulletin board material, lobbying, shots in the press, hard fouls, stare downs, the occasional fight. Those things are good. They're good for ratings, they're good for business. They're Good for fan interest. They're good for jersey sales. They are good. It is good for the wnba. For there to be sports hate.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

For there to be rivalry.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

It is a good thing. That is so objectively, obviously true that I can't believe anyone even dares to deny it. I do think the Bird magic stuff is a little ridiculous because Bird and Magic, in terms of talents, were kind of equals.

[A]

Yes. Yes.

[B]

This is more like Michael Jordan and Bill Laimbeer. You know, they were rivals.

[A]

That's where it ended.

[B]

They're not really the same type of player. Right. They hated each other. They had great moments, but they were not like. No one was like, you know, who carried the NBA to popularity? Michael Jordan and Bill Lambert. It was not. Not how we describe the. Caitlin Clark is the phenomenon. She's the. And, like, does that. Does that spur jealousy? No doubt. Are there interesting racial components to that story that I think are fair to be discussed? For a league that has had great players, white and black, before Caitlin Clark, why haven't they caught on in the same type of way? Like, I think that there is, like, fair conversations to be had there. But a hard foul by Angel Reese in a basketball game that, like, didn't even result in a fight. It resulted in she said the F word. Like, what the hell is the matter with people?

[A]

I know it.

[B]

I mean, it's. It's embarrassing. Like, and the. The. We don't need to name the names. Everyone knows the discourse of, you know, who's going. Like, you're talking about people's lives and you're making it personal, and then you're bringing all the. Just shut up. Shut up. It's just so. It's so beneath the industry to like, take the discourse of online. You are amazing at not being too online. I give you a ton of credit for it. Nick. Nick Wright. It's amazing how he doesn't read his mentions. I still am addicted to my phone. I still read my mentions. I have gotten much, much, much, much, much better about not letting it bother me and not responding. But it is so very clear that way too many people in our industry formulate their opinions based on the algorithm that they see on X. And it's just complete horseshit. Like, I don't believe that people that go to that basketball game left being like, you know what? That was a race war.

[A]

You know, I. I'm.

[B]

I'm not like, I. It's crazy. And I'm not the biggest WNBA fan. I'm not claiming to have WNBA bona fides or like watching for years or like going 10 deep on all the rosters. So people like Parkinson, I don't give a shit about your WNBA takes. That's fine. I just know sports and narratives. That is a good thing for business. And people taking their online commentary that is designed to divide us and then making it actually like inform their sports opinions on television. When they are multimillionaire former professional athletes, they don't even realize what they're doing. But it's just very embarrassing. I really do find it embarrassing.

[A]

Yeah, it's my, my take, my, my take on Caitlin Clark and Angel Reese from the beginning is the league was growing, but she's Taylor Swift in tennis shoes. She's not. Doesn't have to be the best player in the league. Taylor Swift doesn't have the best voice. Adele does. Like, she doesn't have the best voice. There's some visceral connection between young women, middle aged women and Taylor Swift that I can't explain. I'm usually good at listening to music or watching sports and going, that's a superstar. I didn't see it with Taylor Swift. There's been Lady Gaga. I connected. There have been. There have been a lot of artists. Adele.

[B]

I'm the first time I heard Katy Perry guy.

[A]

Yeah, when I heard Katy Perry, I was. But like Adele. When I heard Adele, I was like, holy shit, what is that? That's crazy. Lady Gaga did that to me. I remember Garth Brooks years and years ago, hearing him and going, it was like new country. It wasn't like, you know, old. In my dog and my porch, it was like cool country. And I'm like Shania Twain. I'm usually pretty good at spotting stuff and going, bang the Taylor Swift up. I can't even explain it now. She's got a. She's got a nice voice. She's really smart. But I can't explain it. Caitlin Clark's not that hard to explain. Holy shit. She's taking shots that some NBA players wouldn't take. She said she's Steph Curry plus Jason Kidd. The 60 foot passes, the 30 foot bombs. You're like, half the NBA would not make those plays. She's a comet. Because it doesn't look like anything else, right?

[B]

Of course, if a player in five years started dunking like Anthony Edwards, we'd be like, oh, my God.

[A]

Right?

[B]

It's unbelievable because we haven't seen it in the wnba. Right? So, yeah, I think that part of it is also very obvious. She's the Steph Curry ization. Of basketball has hit women's basketball in a way and at a moment. And you and I have talked about this months ago now, like, listen, part of this is espn, which the world is changing. Cable is changing. Fine. It is still the behemoth of sports television. They promote the shit out of it. Yeah, that helps. Like, real talented analysts, real talented broadcasters. Real. They're not on ESPN news. Like, they're in good time slots on good networks, on abc, on espn, in prime time on weeknights with a real pregame show and a real postgame show and a real play by play guy. And they do a good job on college hoops. And so, like, they're invested in it and it's a cyclical thing. And they hit this phenomenon. Like the fact that that game, that was a blowout. Outrated Yankees, Red Sox. That matters. Yes, like that. That matters. And so I just. Yeah, I mean, all the respect in the world to her talent, all the respect in the world to like, people who have been WNBA fans for forever and have been like, now get to say, I told you so. But I just, just. I wish our media colleagues realized a little bit better that they were being played by the algorithm because they're all athletes.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

They can't possibly be offended by that foul. They can't. It's impossible that a bunch of football players are so offended by that foul that they had to make this big of a deal out of it. So I just. Eventually they'll need to talk about the basketball. And I think for some people it's just easier to culture war everything. And I, I think it's unfortunate.

[A]

Hey, so we all make mistakes, but owning up to them is the right thing to do. So, you know Degree, Cool Rush deodorant. Right. Well, last year they changed the formula and it did not go over well with their fans. So Degree's whole thing is it turns up the sweat and odor protection when you turn up up the effort. And good thing it does because Cool Rush fans really turned up the effort to bring the original formula back. One guy even started an online petition and Degree listened. They admitted they effed up. They're bringing back the original Cool Rush scent. They're bringing it back and it's exactly how you remember it. Cool, crisp and fresh. It's back in Walmart, Target and other stores now for under $4. There's a reason it's been the number one men's antiperspirant for the last decade. It's the same reason why people were not happy when it changed so if you've never tried it, it might be a good time to see what the fuss is about. Head to your local Walmart target and try the OG degree cool rush for yourself. Gaming isn't just a hobby, it's a mission. And when you drop in, your squad is counting on you. No pressure, right? That's where Lenovo comes in. Be future ready with AI. The Legion series has everything from high performance laptops to top of the line towers. Whether you're buying, pre built or configuring your own with Intel Core Ultra processors unlock better streaming gaming performance. Offload AI tasks like background removal, audio optimization and auto framing to the NPU so you can team and game smoothly plus accelerate on device generative AI tasks from creating images to audio. With three built in AI accelerators that help keep your data private and accessible. Expect lightning fast responsiveness on a stunning 16 inch PureSight display. Stay cool under pressure with cold front thermal tech and with all day battery life. The game only stops when you say so. Intel Core Ultra processors for the next era of gaming. Shop [e-mail].

[B]

Oikos presents 15 Seconds of Strength.

[A]

Here we go. Steve's got a trunk full of groceries and no one to help him. Oh, that's tough. Jim.

[B]

Looks like a five trip load at least.

[A]

He grabs the first bag, the second boat. Bob.

[B]

It looks like he's trying to do.

[C]

It all in one trip.

[A]

He shimmies the door open, steps over the dog.

[B]

Oh, and he stumbles.

[A]

Oh, right into the kitchen without missing a beat.

[B]

Jim. Now that's a man who eats his.

[A]

Protein packed Oikos with 15 grams of complete protein in each cup. Oikos Triple Zero can help build strength for every day. Oikos Stronger makes everything better. Summer is almost here and you can now get almost anything you need for your sunny days delivered with Uber Eats. Now what do we mean by almost? Well, you can't get a well groomed lawn delivered, but you can get chicken parm delivered. A day at the lake? That's a no. A Philly cheesesteak? That's a yes. A nice tan? Sorry. A box fan? Happily, yes. What about a day of sunshine? Not happening. How about a box of fine wines? Yeah, that's happening. Delivery's on its way. Okay, how about some clear skies? Nope. Well, how about some French fries? Yeah. So how about a freshly cut lawn? Can't help you there. But a barbecued prawn? Order it and it's on its way. Even throw in some paper towels. Clean up after the feast so While you can't get fun in the sun delivered, don't worry because you can get pork buns delivered. Uber Eats can definitely get you that. Get almost almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol in select markets. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details.

[C]

This podcast is sponsored by Total Wireless, the official wireless partner of ufc. So when you're streaming the fight or sharing those takedown highlights, you need a wireless provider that keeps you close to the action. With Total Wireless, you're covered by the Verizon 5G network, so you don't have to worry about your connection being knocked out at the biggest moments. It's not something you can usually say about a wireless provider matter, but Total Wireless really has your back. They're in your corner every second of the day, so you never miss a thing. They keep you covered for just $25 a month with four lines without sacrificing the essentials like speed. With Total, you get unlimited 5G data so you can stay ahead of the action and keep up with every knockout. Total Wireless understands you can't afford surprise blows any more than your favorite fighter can. That's why the price is guaranteed for five years, taxes and fees included. The best fighters don't make it to the Octagon alone. They have all in support along the way, and it shouldn't be any different for you. So visit totalwireless.com or visit your local Total Wireless store to learn more about how Total Wireless can be in your corner. 5G access requires a 5G capable device and a 5G service area. Monthly rate on the Total Base 5G Unlimited plan for new subscribers applies only to the monthly rate for your plan. Additional terms apply. See website for details.

[A]

So I, I was surprised by the result on the Tush push vote, so I was, I was surprised. So I, I, I've, I've stated before that two things matter to the NFL, in no particular order, entertainment and safety. Put them in the order you want. This breaks.

[B]

Yeah, I think, I think, I think your order is correct.

[A]

And this violates both. It's ugly television and it looks like it's going to get somebody hurt. And Cam Chancellor used to jump over kicking teams to block kicks. There was no data that people were getting hurt, but the NFL's like, you know, it looks kind of dangerous. We're going to ban it now. Kickoffs. There's data. There's more concussions. They've changed it. The horse collar tackle. There's data it's hurting players. They changed it. But Camp Chancellor jumping Over the lines. There was no data that players were just falling to the ground. They didn't. They just thought, in this day and age, it looks like people could get hurt. So that's my thing with the Tush push. It's bad tv, but it does look like kind of. It's not really healthy. I contend it passed for one reason, and it's the same reason. Sometimes you'll be flying through TikTok and somebody will catch your attention. Tony Robbins is the first in our lifetime that did it regularly. He could captivate you with a rant, I'm going to make you a better person. You're like, who's this guy on late night infomercials with Fran Tarkenton like 40 years ago? And he's made an industry of it now. There's copycats everywhere. But there are these people that are highly performative. Gordon Ramsay, Tony Robbins, and they're in all walks of life to some degree. You and I do that for a living. There are politicians that are very performative. And I think Jason Kelsey is the reason it stayed. I think he's kind of a Midwest grinder, salt of the earth, huge brand, totally respected. Owners in this league have listened to players for a long time. They do. They listen to the players. And there are certain players they really like. They like the tough guys in the trenches. And I think he got in, reportedly got in front of the owners and he sold them on it. And I think he flipped about four of them. And I think he was an influencer. He had the ability to literally galvanize these guys because, you know, 10 were not going to ban it. Ten were absolutely. And like anything else, Danny, there's a third of the league just sitting there thinking, well, I don't know, what's Jerry doing? What's Kroenke doing? What's Kraft doing? I think Kelsey's the reason it stays.

[B]

I think that that's totally reasonable. And I'm sure there will be reporting from the meetings on the vote that might very well indicate that you're right. I would only quibble a little bit with your phrasing of like, it passed the vote was to ban it. And they needed 24 votes to ban it and 22 voted to ban it.

[A]

Right.

[B]

The majority of the league did. They just didn't get the super majority that they needed. Right. Well over 50% wanted it gone. They just didn't get to the 75% threshold. I think that some of the discourse around this, because there isn't data yet on player I agree with you, it looks like it, but there is not data on it. Jason Kelsey actually, before he came into lobby for it, had spoken to how much it did feel like it beat him up. So, you know, I think he was doing the Eagles a solid there, frankly. Look, to me the only argument that should matter is that it's bad television. That's the only argument that should matter. They banned the shift in baseball not because it was bad strategy to deploy a shift, because they didn't want to see Kyle Schwaber come to the plate, rip a ball that would be a double and instead it's an out. So they banned it. In the NBA they're like, you know, it's not great if you can just stand there in the lane for 10 seconds and clog up everything. Three second violation. They banned it for the, for the good of the game, for the good of the sport, for the good of the flow, for the good of offense, for the watchability of the product. We do this all the time in sports and I know that Eagles fans took it personally because they were the best at it and they created it.

[A]

It.

[B]

But I thought what A.J. brown said just yesterday was the right. He's like, I'm not concerned about it. It's a yard. Do we really think that the biggest offensive line in the NFL with the strongest quarterback in the NFL, with the best running back in the NFL is all of a sudden not going to win the super bowl because their gimmicky rugby play now has to just be an old school quarterback sneak that. Oh yeah, by the way, Tom Brady was excellent at. Like, if Tom Brady can sneak for a yard, not a great athlete compared to Jalen Hurts. I think Jalen Hurts would be just fine without the tush push. So I thought that Philly fans should go the other way with this. Yeah, we created something and now you said we're too good at it and we won a Super bowl and you're going to ban it. That's on you. We'll win a Super bowl without it. Like, and just like, and like, take it as like a source of pride. Instead they got very defensive and you're trying to take away our play and you're making this just about you. I'm like, I swear to you, if it was the Bears who invented it, I'd be like, that's stupid. It's a. In the NFC championship game, a referee had to get on a loudspeaker and be like, if you jump over the line of scrimmage one more time, I'm just going to award them a touchdown. That is dumb. In the Bills did it in the AFC championship game, the spot of the ball. We have 400 HD cameras, and everyone's like, where's the ball? We couldn't tell because there's 20 people swarming to it. So I just. I think it's just objectively uninteresting. And I don't like. The whole point of sports is that it's unpredictable, that you don't know what's coming. If every time you get in that formation, and I know Philly fans, like, well, one time we faked out of it, okay? If 99% of the time you get in that formation, the exact same thing happens, it's not good television. That should be enough reason for it to be banned, but, you know, whatever.

[A]

Okay, so, you know, I just.

[B]

I was passionate about it because I thought it was. And you're a good arguer. You tell me what you think about this. What is to stop someone from doing it? First and 10 from the 30. Just take the guy in the. In the world who is. Has the strongest legs, make him your backup quarterback, put him under center. 2nd and 7, 3rd and 4, 4th and 2, 1st and 10, 2nd and 8, 3rd and 5, 4th and 2, first and 10, and just rugby their way down the field.

[A]

Well, I.

[B]

It probably won't happen, but normally slippery slope arguments suck. But I honestly do think that if you allow something like this to, like, really gain steam and everybody starts working on it, like the next iteration of the Tush push, everyone's gonna be like, oh, that's taking it too far. Well, then you gotta outlaw it now.

[A]

Yeah, I think it's such a. It's such a beating in your offensive lineman. I don't think you would do that unless I think it used. The scarcity of it is really valuable for even the team that's successful because it's just beating the hell out of your offensive line. I could see that happening in crappy weather. Saquon Barkley gets hurt, and you've got to burn. Five plays that I can see happening. But it is a. It is a beat down. It's like the Wildcat. The Wildcat sounded great, but if you have a good quarterback, it would piss him off if you kept snapping to the fullback like it wasn't good for the room. Right. I could see Drew bled. So, okay, what's the point? Right?

[B]

Stink. As soon as he heard the A.J. brown quote of being like, yeah, I don't care. It's just one yard. He was immediately like a typical receiver. He just wants a fade. He just wants to fade from the one yard line to get more touchdowns. He hates that the ball's never going to him. But, yeah, I mean, I, I think eventually someone will get hurt or too many teams will do it, and this will be up for a vote again in a year or two or three, and it'll, it'll get banned. But, you know, we got, we got another year of, of rugby on 0.5% of our plays in the NFL.

[A]

Okay, so. So I want to end with this. So you, you would. And I would admit this, too. I've moved around the country. People know that. Generally when I move around the country, the only sports team that I tend to, it's hard because I love football so much. When I lived in Tampa, I was kind of a Bucks fan. I grew up in the Northwest. I was a Seahawk fan. I live in Los Angeles. I'm a Ram and Charger fan. I try not to be a homer on the air, but it's, it's. I know people in the front office. I have contacts that. Now I moved to Chicago. I've already got connections with the Bears. Right. So I'm talking to people. And so, and you grew up here, so I under. I've always understood that Bill Simmons loves the Celtics. You're going to love your teams. I get it. Right? Like, like in the audience understands you're still objective. But I, But I said this this week on the show on FS1. I said, I'm going to take five quarterbacks that we, that we would. We're not going to. I'm not going to take a Justin Herbert. Overrated. Jalen Hurts. Underrated. I'm not going to take guys on the fringe. I'm going to take Andrew Luck, Jaden Daniels, Joe Burrow. Who else did I take? C.J. stroud. I took somebody else. I took five of them. And I said, and I didn't take Mahomes. I took Lamar Jackson. So I said, let's get Mahomes Allen out. Okay? They're like, historically great. Like, so I took five guys that none of us are going to argue. They're all great. How long, once they had a competent coach, did it take for you to go, oh, shit, that's a franchise guy? So CJ Stroud did not throw an interception until Week 6. Pretty obvious he was different. Lamar Jackson won six of his first seven, and by the second game, you were wondering if he was even faster than Michael Vick. He was Electric Joe Burrow, weeks two and three, is throwing for 350 yards behind an absolutely atrocious offensive line with a coach nobody likes, like jaden Daniels. Weeks two, three and four, he's completing like 28 of 31. You're like, okay, this is a cheat code.

[B]

What.

[A]

What is going on? And Joe. And. And so I went down and through all of them. So now I bring you to Caleb Williams. So, yeah, again, golf with Jeff Fisher, golf with McVeigh. By week two, he's throwing for 350 yards. You're like, oh, Jared Goff can play.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, he's. He's beating Mahomes in a shootout on Monday Night Football. You're like, like, you know, pretty early in his career, you're like, oh, yeah, this. This dude can play. So first week. So I. My take is good, not great, is hard to spot. Real deal and sucks. Jumps off the page. So week one, Caleb Williams faces Brian Flores at home. Perfect weather. Other, let's say he struggles. Brian Flores has been punitive to young quarterbacks and Caleb Williams is bad. What is your take?

[B]

I won't be handling it well, Colin. I'll tell you that. I won't be handling it well. He needs to be very good right away. And here's the thing. Obviously I watched every down of the Bears last year and have for my entire life. He is good. He's good. Now, it was not easy. It was not always pretty. But I trust my eye test here. If you get sacked 68 times and still have better than a 3 to 1 touchdown interception ratio and your play caller got fired nine games in to your season and then you fire your coach and you had controversy and you lost on a Hail Mary and you had all of that hype and that scrutiny and the guy who was drafted behind you is having a historic rookie year and goes all the way to the NFC championship game and you, you get your ass kicked and you play all 17 games and like, you're still standing at the end of it. You don't suck. Like bad. You said like good bad. It's a little. He's not bad, right? He's not bad. I'm not worried about bad. It's. I still think the guy ceiling can be MVP of the league.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Like, I still think greatness is very likely an outcome here. But yeah, Week one, Minnesota, Monday Night Football to Ben against his old team. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I will say this. I will say this. It seems like 40% of the years in the last, like, decade, the Bears have Opened with the Packers. I know that's not actually accurate, but it feels that way. That's the absolute worst any Bears fan will tell you. Bears, packers, it just is like, a different thing. All of our families have some packers people in it. Like, and for me, it was extreme. My dad's entire family was from Wisconsin. Like, you just. You're in weddings with these people. You work with these people, your neighbors with these people. Like, my old radio station signal, like, reaches far into Wisconsin. Like, you can hear it in Milwaukee. So, like, it's just like, it. Bears, Packers. Week one is too stressful. There's too many. I can handle Bears, Vikings, Week 1. I can handle Bears, Lions, Week 1, Bears, Packers. If Caleb Williams would come out Week 1 and get outplayed by Jordan Love, and they would lose, and he'd throw, like, two picks, that's just like, sky is falling type stuff. So I think I can handle Bears, Vikings on Monday Night Football, Week one. But if he's terrible, I'm not gonna be handling it well. It's gonna be tough to be neutral. I'll be. I'll be totally honest with you. That's gonna be unfortunate.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But if he's great. Oh, deep dish pizza on TV for everybody.

[A]

No, I saw that first game, and I went, oh, God, Flores. What a nightmare. Flores just eats.

[B]

Yeah, it's not a great spot.

[A]

But.

[B]

But again, like. But it can go the other way. Put up 30. Put. Put. Put up 30. We never mentioned Shane Waldron's name in Chicago ever again. You know what I mean? Like, wasted rookie year. Why did you hire. Why did you blow it all up and start fresh with K? Like, put up 30, week one, and all of your sins are forgiven. And we're good.

[A]

Yeah. You know the other thing, Danny? That. That wasn't true years ago. There's so many good young offensive coaches now in the NFL that it used to be if your first coach didn't work, you were screwed. But like Gino Darnold, Baker Tua had Brian Flores then. He was a Pro Bowler. Goff's first year was not only unremarkable, it was unrecognizable. So the truth is, now there are multiple examples. Sam Darnold's a totally different player. It used to be there were, like, four or five offensive guys that were next level. Like, every other staff has the next Ben Johnson or an offensive coach. So, I mean, God, look at. I mean, you go to the AFC alone, it's like, oh, there's Andy Reid and, oh, there's Sean Payton. And then there's Jim Harbaugh in this and Chip Kelly in the same division. You have those four coaches on staff. So I think we've gotten to a point where if you have a Mulligan season, it just, I mean, nobody remembers Goff's first season. He was 07. I think. Think it just disappears.

[B]

Yeah, listen, I mean, in Jacksonville, Trevor Lawrence showed enough through multiple failed coaches that they still gave them a quarter of a billion doll contract. They hit on Brian Thomas last year, they draft Travis Hunter this year they hire Liam Cohen to be their coach, who is a big part of Baker Mayfield's success and Tampa being as consistently great on offense as they've been. Like, he's in year five. Like, does Trevor Lawrence enrage me? And way too many fumbles and red zone interceptions. No doubt. Like, I think that like selling stock on Trevor Lawrence has been totally reasonable. Like his career is not over.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You know, it's his career is not over. Like if, if Liam Cohn could do that with Baker, it's definitely on the board that Trevor Lawrence turns this thing around and rips off 5, 6, 7 really good years and changes the complete narrative his career. But no, listen, I think it's still much more likely than not that Caleb Williams is great than he is mediocre.

[A]

Danny Parkins FS1 Love him on the volume Stops by about once, twice a month. As always. This was great. Thanks buddy.

[B]

Yeah, this was fun. Thanks Colin. Anytime.

[A]

The volume Every once in a while you get the chance to make a real difference. And this is one of those moments. Folds of Honor provides educational scholarships to the spouses and children of fallen or disabled military members and first responders. It's a powerful mission, honoring their sacrifice through the gift of education. But last year, about 7,000 qualified students didn't receive funding and that number is expected to grow to nearly 10,000. Don't let financial needs stand in the way of their Future. [e-mail] to donate. Any amount helps. Together we can close that gap one scholarship at a time. BMW didn't just design an electric suv. Every detail of the BMW IX was crafted with passion and precision. With the BMW ix, you'll experience unmatched power, utility, spaciousness, versatility. My favorite feature cloud based navigation, monitors charge levels, locates nearby charging stations so I can drive electric with the ultimate ease. BMW lets performance do the talking and the scouting report is in. Experience the all electric BMW IX and witness dedication in every detail. Summer is almost here and you can now get almost anything you need for your sunny days delivered with Uber Eats. Now, what do we mean by almost? Well, you can't get a well groomed lawn delivered, but you can get chicken parm delivered. A nice tan. Sorry. A box fan? Happily, yes. A day of sunshine? No. A box of fine wines? Yes. Uber Eats can definitely get you that. Get almost. Almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol in select markets. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. Okay, have you heard about this? Last year, Degree changed the formula for their Cool Rush deodorant and their fans rebelled and wanted the old scent back. And Degree listens. That doesn't happen often. They admitted they effed up and they're bringing back the original Cool Rush scent. They're bringing it back and it's exactly how you remember it. Cool, crisp and fresh. There's a reason it's the number one men's antiperspirant. And it's back in Walmart, Target and other stores now for under four bucks. So try and see what the fuss is about. Head to your local Walmart or Target to try the OG Degree Cool Rush for yourself. You're listening to an Iheart podcast.