← The Herd with Colin Cowherd
The Herd with Colin Cowherd
Colin Cowherd Podcast - Lakers Injury Disaster, Nuggets vs. Spurs OT Thriller, Michigan vs. UConn Preview, NBA’s Tanking Problem
00:47:52
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Guaranteed Human today's podcast brought to you by Ferguson Home where it all comes together. Whether you're a homeowner working on a remodel or a pro managing multiple projects, Ferguson Home is where great ideas become stunning spaces. Ferguson Home is designed for the way you want to shop. Experience today's top products by top brands like LG firsthand by visiting a Ferguson Home showroom where you'll explore stunning displays featuring today's latest products and innovations, or browse their extended selection of products online@FergusonHome.com
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support for the show comes from Public Lately, the line between investing and gambling has started to blur. But let's be real, you can't build actual wealth on a coin flip. That's why Public takes a different approach. It's the investing platform where you can build a serious long term portfolio. Stocks, options, bonds, crypto. They have it all. But unlike platforms that basically just give you a buy button, Public provides actual context. So when you see volume volatility in your portfolio, you aren't just staring at a chart, you're reading a helpful explanation about why the stock is up or down. You can even go deeper with the built in AI Research assistant. It's all about giving you the information you need to invest with conviction. Be right more often go to public.com and earn an uncapped 1% match when you transfer your investments. Public Investing for those who take it seriously Ad paid for by Public Holdings Brokerage Services by Public Investing member FINRA SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors EC Registered Advisor all investing involves risk of loss. See complete disclosures@public.com disclosures struggling to see up close?
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Make it visible with VIZ B I Z Z VIZ is a once daily prescription eye drop to treat blurry near vision for up to 10 hours. It works. The most common side effects that may be experienced while using VIZ include eye irritation temporary dim or dark vision headaches Eye redness Talk to an eye doctor to learn if VIZ V I Z Z is right for you. Learn more at viz.
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Check it out this is Daniel Cormier from the Daniel Cormier Show.
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This podcast is sponsored by Total Wireless,
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The volume Today's show is brought to you by our presenting sponsor, American Beverage. If you think about some of the most iconic drinks in the country, the ones you grab at a barbecue, the ones you raise to celebrate your team, that have been part of your story for decades, Coke, Dr. Pepper, Pepsi, there's something people don't always think about. The companies behind those brands are still making their drinks right here in the US While there's a lot of talk about bringing manufacturing back, America's beverage companies never left. There are American companies making American products with American workers in America's hometown. So 275,000 men and women across all 50 states. Real jobs, good paying jobs, the kind of jobs you can raise a family on. So more than a hundred years, those brands have been part of everyday lives and they're still here, still investing, still operating in communities around the country. So if you care about strong local economies and companies that walk the walk, check out the good work and what they're doing@wedeliver for America.org. All right, Jason Timf Hoops tonight, regular visitor to the herd is joining us. There's a lot of stuff to talk about. I want to start on the LeBron Memphis comments. I was my first takeaway is why did Milwaukee get thrown into that? So Milwaukee, he criticized Memphis, Milwaukee and Akron. Milwaukee has actually spent five and a half billion dollars over the last decade to their downtown, the Iron District, the Riverwalk. They've added thousands of residential condos and townhomes and lofts. And so I was just talking to an anchor in Chicago, Joe Donlon, who I've known forever. He was in Milwaukee the other day and he was probably the 20th person since I moved to Chicago that's been there. And I'm like, what do you think of it? Everybody likes Milwaukee. Everybody's like, in the last 10 years, Milwaukee's so cool. Milwaukee's a great hang in the summer. You know, it's on the water. They've done a remarkable job, the politicians. I mean, five and a half billion dollars for a pretty small market is a lot of money into an infrastructure. Now I don't know Memphis well enough to have a strong opinion. Stayed one night there. There's a certain charm to it, but it's got kind of like political dysfunction, economic stagnation. It's a city that's had issues and what LeBron said has been said by a lot of people. It's just, it's LeBron and then the move to Nashville gets everybody worked up. I thought they got so defensive, it made me think he hit a bullseye. When any city gets really defensive, I'm like, he hit on something here, cuz they're just freaking out. Some of it performative nonsense people say. And in the black community, it's insensitive. He should know better. He's tone deaf. I don't think it's LeBron's responsibility to carry the water for a city. He's been a 20 year great face of the NBA, very few missteps. But there are enough people out there saying, hey, man, Memphis is not the city to pick on. How does it land for you?
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Yeah, I can't say anything specifically about Memphis because the only time I ever went through there was when my wife and I were moving to Charlotte and we were driving with our dogs just straight through and went out the other end and did. Didn't stop anywhere along the way. So I can't really speak to that. I will say that I have found this entire saga to be fascinating on several levels because it's just the classic case of the LeBron James kind of factor entering into a discussion and then everyone getting super worked up. Because as you mentioned, this is clearly a across the NBA type of an opinion that so many people hold. And the specific thing that cracked me up about it was I saw lebron getting some crap for like, his authenticity over the years, and rightfully so, there have been some weird things like, yeah, why are you always reading the first page of every book that we see you, that we see you on the treadmill before the game? Or why does it feel like in many cases we're getting this like super cultivated version of your personality? And then he has this moment where he speaks authentically about how he feels about a situation and this is when he starts getting all of this crap. And again, like, I feel this. I feel the same way. Like, I born and raised in Tucson, Arizona. Every single summer when we would get done with work, my wife and I would be like, we got to get the heck out of here. Let's go to the Pacific Northwest. Let's go here, let's go there, let's go find a way to get out. Like, I think it's fine to have like an appreciation and respect for a city, but then maybe not want to visit there or maybe want to desire something different for your family. I don't think it's something that has to be anything deeper than that. LeBron is 41 years old. The dude is sick of the 82 game grind. I promise you, it's one of them. It's one of the main reasons why I bet you, he doesn't leave LA this summer. And so all he's saying is like, yeah, I'm not looking forward to that road trip, and here are the reasons why. And I just don't understand why that authenticity was met with so much backlash.
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Yeah, I mean, I always feel like, as somebody, you and I are content creators. So I'm looking for moments like that. I mean, it's funny. People. People want to see behind the scenes. That's why documentaries are so popular. You get, like, never before seen video and, like, the raw edge to a story. And so LeBron gives you a piece of audio and you just don't like the message. If you're in Memphis, I will say this. Rich Paul, his agent came out and he said, listen, he's outgrown Akron. Akron's his hometown. He's like, he doesn't like going back to Akron. Is that a lot of people that live in Memphis know the issues. You know, they're defending their city. And everybody wants to feel like, I mean, if you crap on somebody's city, it's sort of an indictment on their life choices. Right. Like, I get why people are upset, but as somebody who is always looking for topics, and I really feel this about Aaron Rodgers, too, or Kevin Durant. Kevin Durant can sometimes have rabbit ears, but he's great for content. And I mean, I didn't. I didn't. The conspiracy theories with Aaron Rodgers and. And Foushee, I was like, oh, God, this is over the top. But in the end, it created content. So, I mean, you guys want behind the Velvet rope with LeBron? He gave you a Behind the Velvet Rope moment, and everybody freaked out. I just felt bad for Milwaukee because it's about an hour from where I'm at. My daughter spent a week there about a year ago, and she's like, dad. She goes, I don't. This is awesome. She goes, maybe the winners are brutal. But she was there in late spring, early summer, and she's like, this place is great. She was at a loft. They went out to a great restaurant. So throwing shade at, you know, Fear the Deer I thought was unnecessary. That really bothered me, you know? And so the Oklahoma City game is the biggest, most disastrous regular season game for a single team in the history of, like, April. So Luke is out. Austin Reeves is Hurt. And I did see pushback on J.J. redick, and I wanted to defend him. He inherited a lopsided roster. They have to score a lot of points to win. So when The Lakers are 15 and 2 in March, nobody was criticizing J.J. redick, because the truth is, he looked at it and thought, listen, we got some winnable games here. And these guys, because of Austin Reeves early season injury, hadn't played a ton of games together. So he started. He. You know, he played big minutes for Luca. Some nights LeBron and some nights Austin and it. They have to win with offense. And Luca's body crashed. He got, you know, he just. It crashed. It wasn't a big collision. So I. My take was, guys, is Austin was hurt early. LeBron's old. When you had this march to gain momentum in minutes, in chemistry, JJ took advantage of it. So I. I can't bury him for that.
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Yeah, you know, I thought that the criticism of JJ that was going around was kind of ridiculous too, because, you know, I watched someone who roots for the team. I've watched every single Lakers game this year. There were dozens and dozens and dozens of times where I would see Luca, like kind of reach down to his leg or like kind of limp, grimace a little bit. Like he. He just did that a lot and like always played through it. And so I don't. Like, I remember when I was watching the OKC game in the beginning, I'm like, oh, he's doing that again. But it wasn't like you were expecting, like if that was something that he hadn't done all season. And then he did that and then JJ left him in the game. Now we're having a different kind of discussion, but Luca just kind of always seemed to do that. Even if you guys remember the 2024 finals run, he was limping from kind of a bulky knee through that entire playoff run, just like kind of favoring it, grimacing, grabbing at it. Like it's just kind of something that Luca does. And you know, as you mentioned there, the. The critic. The valid criticism that I think is there, and I think there's context to this, but the valid criticism is that in the month of March, The Lakers played 17 games, which was like an absolutely insane schedule. They're right now, I think, seven games up on Phoenix for the play in. It's either seven or nine. It's like a large gap. They were not in any sort of danger of falling into the play in tournament, so they were in pretty solid position in the standings. And yet the only two players in the NBA, who played more minutes per game than Ste. Than Austin and Luca in the month of March were Tyrese Maxey and Amen Thompson. So literally, Tyrese young guys. Yeah. Tyrese Maxey, who played six games and because he was dealing with an injury, and then Amend Thompson, who is quite possibly the greatest athlete in the entire NBA right now. Like, that's the two guys. So there. So part of me is like, yeah, that's a little weird. But the points you made are valid. One, they really wanted the three seed. Why? They wanted to have an opportunity to avoid Oklahoma City in round two.
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Yeah.
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And they wanted home court advantage. And there was a relatively small gap between them and Minnesota and Houston in that bottom group, so they were going for that. And as you mentioned, one of the big things that kind of percolated through the season was the lack of opportunity for them to get their big three together. So I think he was pushing that. So, like, even when I look at the minute load, I go, you know, maybe it should have been 35, 36 minutes a game instead of 37. But now I feel like we're playing the results a little bit too, because, like, Austin's injury was kind of a contact injury. When he was going for a rebound, it looked like he got hit from behind. And again, Luca, literally two days before the injury, there was like a report from somebody close to his camp that was saying he was in the best shape he's ever been. It. So it's like, it's hard to. It's hard to kind of like play both sides of that based on the results. Sometimes dudes just get hurt. Now what I do think is fascinating is there is like a. An actual divide that is occurring between Shay and Jokic and Luca and the just their ability to stay on the floor like Shay and Jokic have a remarkable level of reliability. You can trust them not just to be on the floor, but to be near their best athletically through these seasons and through to the finish line. Even just Jokic missing, you know, basically less than a month with that knee injury was like, kind of unusual for him. And he looks great now. He looks fantastic. He might be the best player in the world. Like from what we saw on Saturday, you look at Luka, he's unable to finish this season. Last year he was badly overweight and had a soft tissue injuries or on back to back seasons with substantial soft tissue injuries. As I mentioned, through the entire 2024 playoff run, he was favoring his knee, kind of limping around, balking at that knee had a very borderline embarrassing defensive performance in the NBA Finals. And then in 2023 they missed the playoffs in large part because he kept getting banged up towards the tail end of the year, kept missing time and. And he couldn't stay on the floor. So like I think durability is just one of the more underrated superstar traits. You know. Colin, there was this debate between Stephen LeBron about Stephen LeBron going around yesterday because Bill Simmons had this take about, about Steph Curry that was going viral and Stephans were correctly pointing out that Steph was hurt in 2016. He had yet a little bit of a knee injury. And all I could think is like, yeah, that's one of the many reasons why LeBron was better. Because for the first 17 years of his career, you quite literally never had to worry about whether or not he was going to be physically prepared for a playoff series. And so I do think that as much as this year was a step forward for Luca, there's even another level he can get to in caring for his body.
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Well, it's really interesting. So when the Luca trade Dallas to LA happened I said had they included two first round picks because Luca was hurt for the second year in a row doesn't defend ball centric which hurts comes playoff time. I said if they'd included, you know, with the Anthony Davis, Max Christie, two to three first round picks. I get it. I did not get it without it. But let's look at the Luca deal now. Last year, 40 year old LeBron was more dependable because he was in. Luca was in so, so shape. This year Luka had really good stats, will not be available probably for the playoffs. And so again an injury which he had several his last two years in Dallas. So, and this is something I've said, I've always said Luca is a better Carmelo and Carmelo's a Hall of Famer and Carmelo's a bucket. Carmelo never. All my favorite basketball players of my life, Larry Bird, Michael Jordan, Kobe, LeBron, you can go to all of them. I love Kareem when I was a kid. Dr. J. They made an effort defensively, they really did. Steph tries, he's just, he's not big, he's not great and they've protected him. But when you look at that trade now, I still wouldn't have made it. But it does make you think, okay, like Nico Harrison was thinking, he's going to age really quickly. For the record, Jason, you know who else is age really quickly? Anthony Davis, like two Years ago, we're like best defensive player in the league. Now you're like, it's over.
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Did you see the. Lucas Luca scored more points in March than AD and it has in a Mavericks jersey since the trade.
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I mean, he's literally. Anthony Davis has fallen off a cliff. Guys that aren't in great shape in the NFL, it's quarterbacks that take too many hits. They go from like 31 to 33 to done. And in the NBA, it's guys who are like in. They're just gifted, but they're not in great shape. D. Wade could have played. I mean, D. Wade's in the best shape ever. He had. He just battled through injuries. He was on the floor constantly. He played defense and then eventually the body gives out. But with the Luke injury, yes, he's great. But you do understand a little bit what Nico Harrison, had he gotten a couple of first round picks with it, you'd have said, I kind of, I kind of get what he was thinking. I wouldn't have done it. And without the draft picks, it's egregious. But I mean, listen, who are they going to play in the first round?
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It'll most. There's another showdown between Minnesota and Houston and that one could end up playing a role. It's going to be Minnesota or Houston, but I think, I think against Minnesota they'd get swept. Just you got to think, Colin, like, first of all, Marcus Smart is hurt, but if he can come back, he'll be their second best ball handler off LeBron. This is not an exaggeration. Their third best ball handler after LeBron and Marcus Smart might literally be Bronnie James. That. That's what they're looking at as they head into this postseason run. So like it is, I. It is. They're drawing dead. There was a chance with like LeBron and Austin where if they caught a team like Houston that had some defensive targets like Shangoon and Reed shepherd or pretty substantial defensive target. So like I would have given them an upset shot against Houston if LeBron and Austin were both healthy. But without Austin, it literally plummets. And it's like you're asking a 41 year old to have Jaden McDaniels pick him up full court all game. To have Amen Thompson pick him up full court all game. Both of those teams have multiple bodies to throw at him.
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Too brawny against okc. I mean, he struggled to get the ball, couldn't bring the ball up the floor. So it. Yeah, it's. I think Minnesota would be really ugly and kind of embarrassing. But it. Listen, we. I also thought that OKC game, Rachel Nichols said this on my show, and I thought, I thought it was true. The new Dodger owners come in now, Laker owners, and they're making judgments now. They're baseball guys. They're watching it. So the OKC game in real time was a. Let's see what we've got here. Bronnie can't bring it up the floor. Luca gets hurt. LeBron takes seven shots. That's with Luca getting hurt. It was never competitive. That's the kind of thing it's really hard to unsee for new owners. It's like, oh, wow, we're like six players away and we can't get there. If LeBron comes back and wants a nice contract, you just can't get there. So I think it's easy to say. I think they take LeBron back. It would have to be for pennies on the dollar, in my opinion. Like, like you can't watch the, you know, it's just like anything else. There are just moments, Jason, in life when the spotlight's on and everybody's watching and you're going to be judged on a Monday Night Football game as you're a rookie quarterback, I stand alone. The whole league's watching and you throw four picks. It's like that Sam Darnold game against Belichick and he says, I see ghosts. From that point forward, it was over. If that game was a one o' clock game and nobody's watching, it gets buried. So I, I think that game has not only was a disaster, but I think it has implications beyond that. Today's show is brought to you by our presenting sponsor, Hard Rock bet. What a year they have had. Florida Sportsbook springs in the air. That only means one thing. Baseball's back, baby, in full swing. Hard Rock Bet makes it easy to bet on America's pastime in just a couple easy taps. It's not just picking winners. You can bet on home runs, strikeouts, whether there's a run scored in the first inning, quick, fast paced action right out of the gate. If you miss the first pitch, no problem. You can live bet every inning, every at bat, all the way to the final out. But maybe you're more into the NBA. That's heating up. The playoff pushes here. So Hard Rock Bet every night there's a shot to build the same game, parlay score, a major bucket. You might like the hot hand to drop 30, you know, double, double from your big guy. However you draw it. Up. Hard Rock Bet gives you tons of ways. They have epic same game parlays, so if you're ever late to a tip off, don't worry. Hard Rock Bet lets you bet live all game long. So sign up today. Double your winnings on your first 10 bets. Maximum $50 that's right, double your winnings in your first 10 bets. So if you would have won a hundred bucks in your bet, now it's 200. Download the hard Rock Bet app today. Get the party started. Payable and bonus bets Not a cash offer offered by the Seminole Tribe of Florida in Florida Offered by Seminole Hard Rock Digital LLC in alder states must be 21 plus and physically present in Arizona, Colorado, Florida, Illinois, Indiana, New Jersey, Ohio, Tennessee or Virginia to play. Terms and conditions apply. Concern about gambling in Florida call 1-888-INDIANA if you or somebody you know has a problem wants help, call 1-800-9 with it gambling problem call 1-800- gambler Arizona, Colorado, Illinois, New Jersey, Ohio, Tennessee, Virginia today's podcast brought to you by Ferguson Home Whether you're a homeowner creating your dream space or a pro managing multiple projects, Ferguson Home is where it all comes together. Ferguson Home is designed for the way you want to shop. Experience today's top products by brands like Monogram firsthand by visiting a Ferguson Home showroom where you'll explore stunning displays featuring today's latest products and innovations, or browse their extended selection of products online. Ferguson Home understands that every project is made up of countless decisions, and that's why their expert consultants are committed to helping homeowners, builders, contractors and designers bring all the details together. You can count on support from start to finish, from choosing the right products to coordinating deliveries with your project schedule. Book a one on one consultation at your local Ferguson Home showroom or shop online@fergusonhome.com whether you're working on a new kitchen, a new bathroom or a whole home remodel, you'll find the latest designs and technologies from the brands you trust. At Ferguson Home.
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Now because of the tournament, maybe many people maybe didn't see Denver beat San Antonio 136 to 134 in overtime. That game was so wild. One of the most impressive stats. They shot 49 free throws. They made a combined 44. I mean, it was like you're talking about brilliant basketball. I still think Jokic is the best player in the world and my takeaway in that game is is it fair to wonder when you watch that game, you Know if you keep it close to San Antonio in the playoffs, you don't try, you don't quite trust them yet. They're really young and they listen, they could have won. It went to overtime. Do you have a little bit of you thinking they should have won that game? They had chances to seal it. They got a lot of 22, 23 year olds. Any part of you think that.
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Yeah, you know, it's funny to your very point that you're making there. I, I have changed my perspective when I evaluate playoff teams from like this is what they will do or like speaking in the absolutes to more like this is how it could go wrong. Like San Antonio, San Antonio is definitely good enough to win the title. They're definitely good enough. And that I'm. That that to me is a significant leap for a team that basically has no playoff experience from their core rotation guys. Like normally you'd completely write a team off in that case and I think they have a legitimate chance, so. But if San Antonio loses, that's what it's going to look like. And essentially what I'm looking at there is both Cam Johnson and Aaron Gordon late in the game in individual isolation defense on Wemby were able to get up underneath him, prevent him from turning the corner and kind of force him into these janky kind of contact fade away jump shots that are like pretty low percentage shots. And now five years from now, Wemby might be money on those and then everyone's screwed. But for now he's not a super efficient, you know, pull up mid range shooter against physicality. So if you can put a forward up underneath Wemby, you can keep him away from the rim and ISO. You also saw Nicole Jokic was guarding their guards all game. And just like you guys can shoot all the threes you want, I'm going to sit right here underneath the basket. And so that gave them the ability to do some switching on the ball screens that the San Antonio is running and all of a sudden it's like, oh yeah, their best ball handler is probably Deer and Fox and he's not even a top 25 player in the NBA. And where it gets tricky is like, because I actually rewatched the game this morning because it was just, it was just an all time great regular season game and I couldn't wait dive into it and Colin there is like a very good chance they play each other in the second round because because of the Austin Reeves injury, the Lakers will almost certainly fall to four, which means Denver will move up to three. San Antonio, because they lost, is now three games back of okc. So San Antonio will most likely be the two. So unless there's an upset in the first round for either of those teams, we're going to get San Antonio Denver in round two.
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Wow.
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Yeah. And which will be amazing. But as I was watching that, I'm sitting there thinking like down the stretch that game through either Jokic post ups or Jamal Murray Jokic two man game, the spurs could not turn Denver over and they couldn't stop him from getting a great shot. They literally couldn't stop him. Like the stat of the night, Colin, they, the spurs have a 110 defensive rating this year, which is the third best in the entire NBA. Last night when Yoko was on the floor, the, The Nuggets scored 136 points per 100 possessions. So they were annihilating that spurs defense. And you saw down the stretch, it was just, they were either getting a wide open three for Cam Johnson or for one of their other role players or Jokic one on one in the post. Jokic scored one on one on Wemby six times in that game. That is insane. We're talking about possibly the greatest defensive player ever and he straight up could not guard Jokic one on one. So there's this, there's this dynamic where you're like, okay, Denver is going to walk you down and get great shots. We all know with okc, Shea is going to walk you down and get great shots for himself. With San Antonio, you could tell they just didn't really know what they wanted to do down this drive. All right. Yeah, let's go to Wemby one on one. Well, he's going to take another fade away because Aaron Gordon is so much stronger than him. He's like up underneath him. It's like we can go to Darren Fox, he'll get to this like kind of tough pull up jump shot, but he's just nowhere near as good at that as Jamal Murray or Shay Gil's Alexander or any of these guys. Now I do think they should have gone to Steph Castle a little more down the stretch. He just is so much more physically imposing. But even then we're talking about a second year player. And so again, if San Antonio loses, that's what it will look like. A close game where the opponent is able to get to shots that they like consistently and they look like they just don't quite have the top end ball handling to hang.
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Yeah, San Antonio, I think we've talked about this they don't quite know what they are offensively and, and they're so talented they can get away with it for most of the game. But if they play an experienced team late, that's, you know, that's like Houston. Houston's got all sorts of talent. They don't have a true point. They. They struggle in clutch situations. Like, that's the difference between winning playoff games. That's why guys like Mike Connolly stay in this league. Like Mike, we need 16 minutes, get us into the offense late. I mean, that people just, they just forget how Ty Lou's a great coach. The Clippers had about a two year run where I'm like, kawhi can't be the answer to get you into your offense. It doesn't work. Okay, I want to talk college basketball. It was a tough Arizona loss for you because you're more NBA than college. But this was such a great season. My first. So I picked Michigan to win the whole thing. I had them beating Florida and I watched them because I'm in Big Ten country. I probably watched them six or seven times. I mean, I saw them. I mean, they beat Gonzaga. People beat Gonzaga. They don't blow Gonzaga out. You don't blow Arizona out. Like, Michigan's really good if they're hitting their jumpers. They could beat UConn by 15. And UConn's unbelievable. But it's funny when people say, is this the best college basketball team ever? This is when it helps to be my age. No, they're not a top 10 team ever. They are a top three team. In the last five to 10 years. There was a team that had Akeem Olajuwon and Clyde Drexler that didn't win a national championship. All right, Larry Michaux. I mean, you can go back and look at that. Fi slam a Gemma. There was a St. John's team that had Mark Jackson, Chris Mullen, Bill Weddington, Walter Berry. I don't think they made the Final Four. It's like, folks, what Michigan is, is what college basketball was in the 80s and 90s, which is old big NBA frontline and good at, you know, not NBA players front to back, but a dominant center. I mean, I watched the Ralph Sampson, Virginia teams for years. It's like, folks, Michigan is In the last 15 years, one of the best teams. But I will say this, that game tomorrow. So uconsch just physical, they unravel, they make. They make people pick up the dribble as much as any defense in the country. Teams just constantly are picking up the dribble on the perimeter, they get lost and Michigan and that and UConn pushes teams around. But Michigan has the power to push back the officials. Monday night. This is going to be one of the hardest games to officiate. You could foul both teams out eight minutes in. I like Michigan because I just think offensively I think Morris become. He was averaging five a game for ucla. Now he's an offensive hub. What was your takeaway on what Michigan did to a team you watched a lot of Arizona?
- [33:25]
A
Yeah, so I was worried about that game from the beginning of the tournament when I saw that we were lined up with them in the final four because Arizona is extremely well rounded and they're just. They can physically dominate everybody. And they basically did physically dominate everyone all year long. And the reason why I was worried about Michigan was the way that Arizona physically dominates you is very much a power based approach. It's not like a, like a skill over the top size thing like Kevin Durant shooting over you or Nicola Jokic hitting hook shots. It's like we're going through your chest over and over again. Co A Pete drives a walk on the offensive glass. Like there's not a lot of like refined skill in their front line. And so I looked at Michigan as kind of the, the, the neutralizing factor for that size. Except for all of their bigs are more skilled. Mara is more skilled than Krivas. Right. Like Yaxel Lindenberg is. He's, he's legitimately like if you took Rui Hachimur and put him in, in the, in college basketball right now, except for, with. Except for with a ton more passing feel. So like they're, they have. And obviously Morris Johnson can shoot the ball and put the ball on the floor a little bit. Like their bigs were like every bit as big as they needed to be to match Arizona's physicality. But then they also had the over the top skill that the Arizona bigs did not have. What really I think swung that game towards a blowout was how badly the perimeter players for Michigan outplayed Arizona's perimeter players like Jaden Bradley ends up getting in foul trouble early. I didn't like a couple of the calls that he picked up, but that ended up taking him out of the game. And then, and then Braden Bury started 0 for 8 from the field like he just couldn't make a shot. I thought Elliot could. Like he was kind of forcing things a little bit, but he was bringing a confidence to the game and he was generating a lot of shots. Even though he had some misses and some turnovers overall he was bringing like a verve to Michigan's offense that was working. And then like they just like the depth of talent down the roster. Like while, while Karchenkov is really struggling, Trey McKenna's lighting them on fire from three and getting all these dunks. Like there was a, there was a depth to the Michigan piece. And that's, that's where I agree with your take about them as an all time team. Like when I think of the all time teams, it's usually the singular, unstoppable individual talent that kind of break the field. Yeah. Or even in the last 15 years think Anthony Davis or, or Kemba Walker like this singular player that's like he's just than everybody in the field that everyone's just going to lose. And that's the kind of, the kind of thing that Michigan's more susceptible to variance to your point, like if I'm, if I'm Yukon, like Yukon was killing Illinois by running Mullins off of that same double drag coming off of the left side of the floor. And one of the reasons why that works is Illinois did not want to bring their bigs out. They had their bigs hanging back. So as long as he can shake free coming off those screens, he's going to get to that shot. He a couple early in the game and hit the dagger coming off the left wing that ended the game a day. Mar is going to do the exact same thing. He's going to be sitting, he's going to be sitting back. So like there's a certain amount of like if UConn hits their threes as they're taking advantage of some of the coverage stuff, one of the downsides with that front line, that front line for Michigan is a little slow footed. Yukon because of, because of Hurley is going to run so much action he's going to put those dudes in the blender. And so if Michigan makes mistakes with their slow footed bigs against that type of action, they're going to get some clean looks. And so it really comes down to if, if UConn can hold up physically enough on the front line, like if they don't just get absolutely annihilated by Michigan size and if Michigan doesn't quite shoot as well as they did against Arizona because Michigan shot insanely well against Arizona like they were, it was, it was magnet ball out there. Like trust me, it's very hard for me to watch but for Yukon, if, if Michigan doesn't shoot super well and they hang just well enough physically. And Dan Hurley can put them in the blender and guys like Mullins can hit threes. I think they've got a really good upset shot. I think they've like. I think they have a much better upset shot than even Arizona did. After I watched how much of a mismatch it was last night on tv.
- [37:32]
B
Well, the first. I thought Bruce Pearl nailed it. The first half of the first half, Illinois looked nervous. Like, they just. It was big and UConn's been in a million of those games and it just. UConn just played downhill. Illinois was tentative. I kept waiting, kept saying, I've watched Illinois play. Illinois is going to come back. And they did. Illinois's got great size, great team. But you know, it's funny, I watched Taurus Reed, Terrace Reed, the old school big for UConn, and I watched that and I think, you can't tell me he can't play in the NBA. The dude looks like. Honestly looks like Miles Garrett. N for the Cleveland Brown. The guy is his shoulders. You're like, you can't mean. It's like Kendrick Perkins with an offensive game when you're butt your shoulders. He's so big and strong. How do you look at him? And again, he's old school. There's got to be a place on an NBA roster for a guy like that, isn't there?
- [38:29]
A
Yeah, absolutely. I think, I think in the, in the modern NBA, there's so many different ways that the center position kind of takes shape. And like, yeah, don't get me wrong, when you're looking at the very cream of the crop centers in the league, the Chet Holmgren types, the Victor Wembanyama types, right? Anthony Davis, when he's healthy, bam. At a bio. Like, there's a certain amount of versatility where it's like they can be big at the rim and quick on the perimeter, they can defensive rebound, but they can also attack mismatches in the post and they can shoot threes. And like, there's a certain versatility you get from the very, very best guys. But like every team that is trying to win the championship wants to have multiple looks. They want to have a small ball look. They want to have maybe even a too look. Like, even just look at Denver. They had basically shelved Valentunas for a while. He had a pretty good first half shift against San Antonio on Saturday because it's like, hey, we can go to this look if we want to or need to in a situation. And having a big. That Even if he's a little undersized, that has the ability to punish mismatches, to do damage in the post. Because like a lot of teams switch in bench groups in the NBA. So if you have a guy that's going to take him right down to the block and just get every single offensive rebound, if you switch a guard onto him, that's real value there. The ability to get up and down the floor in a more transition based game. Like to me I look at it so much more. Colin, in like, are you a good basketball player then do you fit this like specific mold for what we, for what we like envision is like a requirement in the NBA?
- [39:55]
B
Well, I also think there's value in the fact that Dan Hurley's a great coach. You know, practice is hard. You know, I said this when Jackson Dart got drafted by the New York Giants. I'm like, he had Lane Kiffin for three years. He, that's like, I mean that's like a, the, the average college guy doesn't get Lane Kiffin for three years as a coach. Multiple sets motion, there's a lot of pro stuff and then he walks into the Giants and people are like, oh God, he's actually ready to play. If you're in Dan Hurley system for a couple years and you, you know, I mean one of the things I like about UConn, it's kind of NBA physicality. I mean they unravel A lot of teams. If you go to an NBA game especially late or a playoff game, it is so damn physical. Like it is just body on body. And that's what UConn does. They're even their championship teams aren't pretty. They're just kind of. They wear you. That's why they're such a great second half team music. They just wear you down. So I watch him and I think, don't tell me that guy can't play in the league. I'm sorry. There's just something there about him.
- [41:02]
A
I was watching the spurs game and they, they kept running this exact same play over and over and over again in the second half where they basically would have Steph Castle and Victor Wembanyama running a ball screen on the right wing and they would lift dear and fox up to the left wing to clear a ton of space for Wemby on his roles. And at the same time they're like running a, what's called an exit screen. Basically just Julian Chimpani going out to the corner off of a flare. So it's an off ball Action to occupy defenders while they're rolling Wemby to the rim. And it was killing the Nuggets. They just did it over and over and over again. The only thing that stopped it was Jokic started ignoring Julian Champagne and just sitting under the basket and the spurs just didn't. That standing gun, he was calling it out in the broadcast. He's like, why aren't they throwing it to Julian Champagne? But as I was watching that, I'm like, this is what modern MBA NBA basketball has become for the best teams. It's very sophisticated. There's on ball action, there's off ball action. There is a lot of like read and react basketball that's taking place within each of these possessions. Like, oh, they switched, here's what I do. Or oh, they're dropping, here's what I do. Oh, they're blitzing, here's what I do. And so players that end up coming out of these systems that run these really sophisticated offenses are more prepared for the NBA level and the read and react stuff too. Like Dan Hurley, like if you've, if you've played in Dan Hurley's system, there's nothing you're going to see in the NBA that's going to be over your head tactically.
- [42:20]
B
That's right.
- [42:21]
A
And you talk to Colin, you talk to any, anybody close to the league these days. One of the biggest things that these GMs are looking for is intelligence in a player. They're looking for, can I count on this guy? Okay, Jason Tatum just drew a double team. Can I count on this guy off the catch to immediately process what's happening and know what the next move is in that chain. Especially when you're talking about how like you actually kind of need in the modern NBA to have guys on rookie contracts that can play. That's why San Antonio has so much talent. That's why Oklahoma City has so much talent. Like Boston finding guys like Baylor Shireman or Jordan Walsh that can step in and play right away. Hugo Gonzalez that can play right away. If you have a guy that's on a rookie cost controlled contract that like can make reads when, when the defense is tilted in another direction and can play defense and knows what to do on both sides of the floor, it's, there's a ton of value. Look at the Lakers were literally talking about how they don't have anybody who can play now that they have all these injuries. It's because they have absolutely mailed in the draft for year after year after year so they don't have any talent that's on discounted contracts. It is like I think schools like Yukon are factories for for just high quality NBA players.
- [43:36]
B
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Okay, I want to wrap it up with this. You were bothered Friday and you weren't the only person. There were like five uncompetitive games in the NBA and this has been the most tanking I've ever seen. I have defended GMs and owners and I have said, listen, if there's only one way to go from bad to competitive, and that one way, because of the new cba, is, well, let's just tank. It's a great draft. Well, then that's what they're going to do. And I think why you don't see tanking in other sports is there's multiple ways to make trades. I mean, the NFL, you could trade a star for a scrub. I mean, it just if. If the cap works. So I've said, you know, Utah, nobody wants to taint. You're doing it because you're like, we need one or two more really good players. So I don't know what the solve is. You could shorten the season, you know, by six to eight games. I don't know what the solve is. It did seem to bother you though, what happened Friday.
- [48:18]
A
Yeah, I've been driven crazy by these slates of games where we have five or six games in a night where you have a dead serious team that kind of needs to win because they're jockeying for playoff position, but, but they're also like trying to tune up for the postseason. You know, like they're trying to get ready for their, for their second season of the NBA. And they're playing against a team that is quite literally trying to lose to the, to the extent that even when they have good competitive players in the game that are keeping things close through three quarters, their coaches just pull them and don't let them play in the fourth quarter. It's like the, it's like the soft tank where you try for three quarters and then you, you mail it in. And all I could think is, is like, this doesn't make sense for anybody. Like for the good team, it doesn't make sense because they're, they're out there practicing playing bad basketball because the players don't want to be there. They don't want to play against a bunch of G League 2 way type talent that as these teams are, are deliberately sitting their best players. It's bad for the, the bad teams because they're playing against a team that's not giving their best effort. And if they do happen to play well enough to compete, they just get pulled from the game. That's not good for them. And it's terrible for us, the people that are watching the games, because it's a terrible product. And like, the NBA has tried to hide it. Like they hide it on NCAA tournament nights and, and stuff like that. They'll be like, all right, Saturday afternoon, no one's playing. Let's put nugget spurs on, you know, but like there's, there's. I just, as I was watching that, I kept thinking to myself, like, you have to have everybody play everybody because otherwise the owners would lose it. There's a certain amount of like, we're part of the NBA. That means I get to have LeBron. I get to have LeBron come to my arena once a year. But if I was running the NBA, what I would do is I would essentially divide the season into two portions. And the first chunk of the season, I'd have every team play everybody twice. So you get your, what's that? 58 games before the All Star break. Kind of looks more or less like the normal season. Everybody gets to have every star come to their city one time. And then because, because the, the tanking doesn't really get egregious until the tail end of the season. The reason why is every team does kind of want to see where they're at. They go, they're like, all Right. October, like let's see where we're at in our development. Let's play all our best guys. It's like, oh crap, we suck. Okay, time to, time to shut it down and prepare for the next offseason. Right? But like towards the tail end of the season, it's so especially egregious. So at the All Star break, you have a long break, I would build a new schedule and I'd just be like, hey, all of you teams that are intentionally losing against each other, let's have you do it against each other. Go go over there and do your tanking thing. And then let's have all the serious teams, the 20 teams at the top of the league, only play against each other in what essentially amounts to playoff tune up games. And that'll avoid these, this dynamic where you're getting poor development situations for young players, you're getting bad basketball from your good teams and a terrible TV product. But I think it even goes deeper than that. Colin, I don't know if you saw this, but Tom Haberstrough had a little article that he released a couple days ago where essentially for the national TV games this year, the stars have only participated for both teams in about a third of them. And so at a certain point there needs to be a revamp of the schedule anyway. We're already dealing with a flawed product on its face because for all the talk about TV money and oh like if you cut the schedule it's going to cost us money. You don't think that there's going to be some sort of long term detriment if your on court product sucks? You don't think that there would be value if, if much more. A much higher percentage of national TV games looks like that Spurs Nuggets game instead of some of these other travesties that we've seen where they're like literally marketing Brandon Pajemski on an ad. I like Brandy's good young role player, but why is he getting advertised as the primary star of a game? Because the stars aren't healthy. They're. The bodies are not able to hold up as well as the league needs to actually feature this type of schedule. And so I think the, the entire schedule needs to be revamped anyway. But I think they have two problems. They have a stars breaking down problem and they have a tanking problem at the end of the season. And if they can make some tweaks, I think there's a version of this where you end up actually producing a better on court product. That doesn't hurt you as much financially as you think.
- [52:30]
B
We thought baseball was dead five years ago. The Cubs won a World Series 10 years ago. And then it was like, man, this sport is slow. And baseball made it okay. Universal DH got rid of the defensive shift, pitch clock abs. The sports in a three year heater. Tweaking is what every business does. NFL tweaks annually. I mean, there's been times. What's a catch? I wouldn't be shocked if the NFL goes to a one foot inbound catch, which in college, because there's so much debate and time spent on that second foot in one foot just speeds the replay up. It's really quick. So I think there's a lot of issues. I think they're almost all solvable with smart tweaks. I really do. I think. I mean, we have to remember, you know, this sports or business, it doesn't matter if you're Amazon or the NBA, you're constantly tweaking the competition. And the truth is, the NBA now, right now, is in competition with baseball for eyeballs and March Madness for eyeballs. Tweak. We love basketball. It's proven that we love basketball. Many of the most famous, wealthiest athletes in American history, your Magics, your Michaels, your LeBrons, your Currys, they're basketball players. They're not football players. We love the sport. But like any business, things evolve. I mean, sport now is so fast. Is that like soft tissue injuries? Luca, they're everywhere. All right, cut a few games. I mean, I've seen people suggest you go to the college model, which is 10, you know, 20 minute halves. I'm okay with it. Like, baseball's a history sport and they made changes. Like, nobody cares about total points. I mean, LeBron, Kareem, you know, in the modern age, I mean, Luke has been like, I'm not playing until 40, get me out of here. He's one of the threats to be an all time scorer. So to me, if you went to 20 minutes a half, you cut six games out. That probably solves a lot of the issues. It's a quick game, by the way. And a lot of NBA games are played Monday through Friday or Monday through Thursday or Sunday through Thursday when you have to work the next day. People getting home at 9:30 and not 10, 15. It's like not, you know, with your kids. One of my knocks on going to regular season NBA games was, oh, I got to work tomorrow or my kids are home. It's like, I don't know. I think, I think we love Basketball. Adam Silver's been a little reticent. David Stern tried everything new ball. Remember the goofy sleeves he had players wearing? It's like now, some were just awful. But I always appreciated the swing. Like, I appreciate the effort.
- [55:13]
A
Yeah, no, I totally agree. I think to your point about shortening the season, like, I, I don't necessarily need to see Bronnie James bring the ball up the floor against Case and Wallace in an important game. Like, I think, because I think, I think your pushback would be like, oh well, what about the. It would marginalize the bench. And it's like, you mean to tell me if there's more minutes where Luka's on the floor or a higher percentage of the game that that's a bad thing? You know, like, like I just in general, like, like Luca got hurt in this third game in four nights, you know. Now he had sat out the Washington game. I should say Austin Reeves got hurt in his third game in four nights. But it's like, why are the Lakers playing Washington the day before they play Cleveland two days before they play Oklahoma City? Like, stretch out the schedule, get rid of back to backs. Guys will have more time for treatment. Guys will have time, more time for practice. What ends up happening is your on court product gets better. Maybe you take a short term hit in the form of some of these contracts. But like, honestly, even if you shorten the schedule, I don't see any reason why you couldn't go to your media partners and cut the deal for the same amount of games. Just cut them off of league pass or cut them off of regional broadcasts.
- [56:14]
B
If you said we're going to extend the season 10 days and eliminate six games, just that small of a move, you'd solve most of these. I mean, just okay, make it last 10 days longer, eliminate six games. You just have more two and three day breaks. Just that alone. These aren't massive. I mean, if you really think what baseball did, their big one was, hey, we can't have a second baseman play right field. Just have him first baseman were third baseman. Like these things aren't massive. I mean, the pitch clock felt revolutionary. People complained. There were a couple instances in the first week. Veteran pitcher struck a week into it, everybody figured it out. It's like, yep, it was fine. And that was one of those major pushback. They tried it in the minor leagues, they brought it to the big leagues for about a week. I mean the ABS system, I mean literally overnight you're like, oh, this is good theater.
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