Colin Cowherd Podcast - Luka’s Lakers Debut, Butler A Perfect Fit For Warriors, Spurs Could Be A PROBLEM, NBA WAY More Interesting After Trades

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Herd with Colin Cowherd

Title: Colin Cowherd Podcast - Luka’s Lakers Debut, Butler A Perfect Fit For Warriors, Spurs Could Be A PROBLEM, NBA WAY More Interesting After Trades
Host/Author: iHeartPodcasts and The Volume
Release Date: February 12, 2025

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1. Introduction

In this episode of The Herd with Colin Cowherd, hosts Colin Cowherd and Jason Timf delve deep into the latest developments in the NBA. The discussion pivots around Luka Doncic’s debut with the Los Angeles Lakers, Jimmy Butler’s integration into the Golden State Warriors, the rising potential threat of the San Antonio Spurs, and how recent trades have revitalized interest in the league.

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2. Luka Doncic’s Lakers Debut

Team Dynamics and Performance

Jason Timf initiates the conversation by analyzing Luka Doncic's impact on the Lakers. He observes that the team feels younger and more dynamic with Luka’s addition, despite some defensive shortcomings.

• Jason Timf ([05:02]): “One of the things watching the Lakers last night with Luka is that I felt like they were kind of on a train to nowhere. And it was like AD was a great defensive player. Bit hit and miss, offensively good, not consistent like the great offensive scores.”

Jason highlights the fluctuating performance of Anthony Davis (AD) and the emerging role of Austin Reaves as a potential key player. He underscores Luka’s ability to enhance the offensive capabilities of the team, making the Lakers “basically impossible to guard” due to their versatile offense.

• Jason Timf ([06:45]): “This team is going to be basically impossible to guard. And so they have a unit now, their offense that presents legitimate problems for every single team in the league.”

Colin Cowherd’s Perspective

Colin Cowherd concurs with the assessment, emphasizing the Lakers' offensive prowess and questioning their defensive stability.

• Colin Cowherd ([07:36]): “The Lakers are an exceptional offensive team. And if you're giving me...they have a unit that presents legitimate problems for every single team in the league.”

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3. Jimmy Butler’s Fit with the Golden State Warriors

Strategic Synergy

The discussion shifts to Jimmy Butler’s recent move to the Golden State Warriors. Timf argues that Butler complements Steph Curry’s playstyle by acting as a versatile second option, enhancing the Warriors' strategic depth.

• Jason Timf ([14:48]): “Jimmy Butler is tough, he's a badass, he's physical, he's ornery and he's a really good number two. It's like in baseball, it's when you try to make a 201, your pitching staff's not good.”

Colin adds that Butler’s presence adds a layer of toughness and intelligence to the Warriors, potentially making them a more formidable playoff contender.

• Colin Cowherd ([17:07]): “Jimmy Butler is really smart. And he's been killing teams. That's what matters.”

Collaborative Playmaking

Timf draws parallels between Butler and Andre Iguodala from the Warriors’ heyday, highlighting Butler’s role in facilitating playmaking and creating easy scoring opportunities.

• Jason Timf ([16:01]): “There's a guy that can quickly process those situations. And they've been killing teams.”

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4. Spurs Could Be a PROBLEM

Rising Threat

The conversation moves to the San Antonio Spurs, whom Colin identifies as an underestimated but emerging threat in the Western Conference.

• Colin Cowherd ([28:26]): “Keep your eye on San Antonio. Stefan Castle out of UConn is no fun to defend. That guy is this time next year we're going to have different conversations.”

Jason agrees, noting the Spurs’ defensive strategies and key players like Dejounte Murray and their potential to disrupt other top teams.

• Jason Timf ([30:25]): “The Spurs are going to be a monster rebounding team and they are really going to protect the paint well. And that is going to present a problem for teams.”

Strategic Depth

Both hosts emphasize the Spurs' ability to adapt defensively and take advantage of opponents' weaknesses, making them a team to watch in the postseason.

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5. NBA Way More Interesting After Trades

Enhanced League Dynamics

Timf asserts that recent trades have injected new life into the NBA, creating more engaging and unpredictable matchups.

• Jason Timf ([44:43]): “The NBA verdined into ways that you can't write any of these teams off because they could catch a matchup and lose early.”

Colin reflects on how player movements have shifted team strengths and created a more dynamic and competitive league.

• Colin Cowherd ([44:46]): “Basketball’s always had certain things. Young people like it. It's the culture, their shoes. It's star driven. So the key is, can you get the stars moving around a little bit?”

Player Movements and CBA Impact

They discuss the implications of the current Collective Bargaining Agreement (CBA) on player mobility, suggesting that while restrictions were meant to stabilize teams, they inadvertently limited matchups that generate fan interest.

• Jason Timf ([42:09]): “I think the NBA kind of overindexed on stability. And now all of a sudden, when you have stability without urgency, it just becomes boring.”

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6. Western Conference Analysis

Top Contenders

The hosts dissect the Western Conference landscape, highlighting Oklahoma City Thunder (OKC), Denver Nuggets, and the Lakers as the top contenders.

• Jason Timf ([32:13]): “All of the new ways to get in on the action at DraftKings Sportsbook... Denver and the Lakers are both closer to OKC than people realize.”

Parity and Team Strengths

They analyze the strengths and weaknesses of various teams, emphasizing the importance of defensive stability and offensive versatility in determining playoff success.

• Colin Cowherd ([32:59]): “They have five to six guys in that rotation. The Knicks can match up with almost every team in the league.”

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7. Player Contracts and Salary Cap Discussion

High Salaries and Team Building

The discussion shifts to the escalating player salaries, particularly focusing on Luka Doncic’s contract with the Lakers, comparing it to other high-paid athletes in different sports.

• Colin Cowherd ([49:10]): “There's a big difference. You're like, ooh, you know, guys making 35 million a year, okay, that's insane money. $74 million a year. And it’s like, yeah, he's missed the last couple of camps.”

Jason counters by arguing that despite the high cost, Luka remains a transformational talent worth the investment for the Lakers.

• Jason Timf ([53:09]): “He absolutely obliterated the Minnesota Timberwolves and got within three wins of the trophy. Like, at a certain point, I'm like, let's not overthink this.”

Comparative Analysis

They compare NBA salaries to those in other leagues, debating the value of investing heavily in star players versus maintaining team balance.

• Jason Timf ([54:35]): “LeBron is a plug and play guy too. He can defend and can rebound and can run. He can screen, he can shoot.”

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8. Conclusion

Optimism for the NBA’s Future

Both hosts conclude on an optimistic note, believing that the NBA’s recent player movements and strategic team building have revitalized the league, making it more competitive and entertaining.

• Colin Cowherd ([58:00]): “It's bigger than people think. De'Aaron Fox to WEMBY. Luka to LA. Like the Knicks are really fun to watch. Boston's outstanding.”

• Jason Timf ([59:00]): “Seriously. The Lakers are good, the Celtics are good. The Knicks are good. The league's good. The NBA is going to be just fine.”

They express confidence that the NBA’s dynamic changes will continue to attract and retain fan interest, ensuring the league’s sustained popularity.

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Notable Quotes

• Jason Timf ([05:02]):
  “This team is going to be basically impossible to guard. And so they have a unit now, their offense that presents legitimate problems for every single team in the league.”

• Colin Cowherd ([07:36]):
  “The Lakers are an exceptional offensive team. And if you're giving me...they have a unit that presents legitimate problems for every single team in the league.”

• Jason Timf ([14:48]):
  “Jimmy Butler is tough, he's a badass, he's physical, he's ornery and he's a really good number two. It's like in baseball, it's when you try to make a 201, your pitching staff's not good.”

• Jason Timf ([43:41]):
  “The Lakers have been playing a really likable and fun brand of basketball. LeBron was playing super well.”

• Colin Cowherd ([17:07]):
  “Jimmy Butler is really smart. And he's been killing teams. That's what matters.”

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Final Thoughts

This episode of The Herd with Colin Cowherd provides an in-depth analysis of recent NBA developments, emphasizing the transformative impact of key player movements and strategic team changes. The hosts offer insightful perspectives on team dynamics, player contracts, and the evolving competitive landscape of the league, presenting a comprehensive overview that engages both casual fans and ardent followers of basketball.

Transcript

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[Jason Timf]

No, absolutely. I mean, I hated this Laker team at the start of the year. They had this personality, this like, I don't care about the work that was driving me crazy. But over the course of the last, like, month, they've been playing a really likable and fun brand of basketball. LeBron was playing super well. Austin was playing super well before AD Got hurt. He had a couple of monster games, played really well, 20 a night. Yeah. But I felt like they weren't good enough on either end of the floor to really do what you need to do to win four playoff rounds. And I've been really keyed in on this concept lately. Like, if you're going to win the title, you have to be able to do something well enough that it really gives people problems. Like where teams can't even match up with it for one reason or another. And the Lakers just didn't have that punch on either end of the floor. Even with LeBron and AD it's not the defensive team it was back in 2020, right? Yeah, so. So they didn't have that punch with Luka. One of the unique things he does. This Laker team has a lot of guys who are good offensive players as long as they're set up well. Even with LeBron and Austin, like, one of the reasons why they struggled against defenses that did a lot of switching all year long is LeBron's 40. And it's hard to get him to just get downhill time and time again in a random regular season game in January or December. Or Austin not an elite athlete in terms of getting past top tier NBA talent. And Anthony Davis obviously has offensive limitations, but once you bring Luca in, he just has this magical ability to get the ball to the basket. He's so big and he's so strong and he's so good at change of pace and he's so good at getting guys sealed on his shoulder, sealed on his backside. He can get downhill. And now he's spraying out to all these guys and they're actually all really good offensive players when they have an advantage.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah.

[Jason Timf]

Like, Rui shoots 53% on unguarded catch and shoot threes, but you need to get him unguarded catch and shoot threes. Luka can do that. And one of the biggest things that it's allowed. Is it's allowed. LeBron James, like, have you ever watched a guy say, like, oh, LeBron should drive to the basket every time? Yeah, it sounds great, but it's really exhausting to do that, especially at his age. Now, LeBron, when he gets his touches, can be super physically aggressive because he knows he has Luca to carry the lion's share of the offensive load. And so now when I look at this situation, yeah, they have defensive question marks, and we can get into that here in a minute, but I try not to overthink it. This team is going to be basically impossible to guard. And so they have a. They have a unit now, their offense that presents legitimate problems for every single team in the league. That is a. That is a foundation you can build on.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah. And remember, Dallas won the west last year and their two best players are below average suboptimal defensive players, Kyrie and Luka. Is that. Let's be honest about the West. Denver has Jokic, but they're atrocious defensively. Houston's young, can't shoot, and I don't think they translate to a playoff team. I think they're just one of those teams that they are so young and twitchy and athletic in the regular season, if you're not well rested, if you don't have a lot of tape time, they're a tough matchup. If I get to play them seven times, they can't shoot.

[Jason Timf]

There's a team like that every year. Every year there's that team.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah. So all of a sudden, Denver can't defend, Houston can't shoot. Oklahoma City. I don't trust Chet Holmgren's health. I think they're the best team. Golden State doesn't have enough offensive firepower. Very Steph Reliant, even with Jimmy Butler. Memphis is. Memphis plays with a lot of pace, and they're a lot of fun to watch. I don't trust them. You know, said this before, they're just teams like Philadelphia in the playoffs, I don't trust them. Memphis in the playoffs, I don't trust them. I know Jaren Jackson, I know John Moran. I get it. So if you look at the West, OKC is clearly the best team. They have the most kind of diversity of options. They have so many different players, and they're really good and really young. They're what I think Utah wants to be in about three years with all those draft picks. But the Lakers are an exceptional offensive team. And if you're giving me. It's also a team. LeBron clearly likes Austin Reeves. He likes to play with him. It's obvious. LeBron's like. He's like a 15 year old with a crush on Luca. The way he plays, the energy. And I just think they're so good offensively that there's nobody that's complete enough in the west to roll them. Boston would, but Boston's got, you know, Boston's been playing these guys, you know, I watched them the other night against New York. Jesus, they're good. God, they're good. So my take is, if you put them in the East, I don't think they could. I don't think they could beat Boston. I think they're a Western Conference finals team. And I'm not trying to be an LA homer.

[Jason Timf]

Yeah, I'm with you every team below. To me, okc, Denver and the Lakers are the clear top three in the West. And Denver, and like you were talking earlier about the young, feisty, athletic. Memphis used to be that team. That's right. Houston's that team now. There's always a team like that. And that team always wins a lot of regular season games and then loses in the first two rounds. It's just. That's what happens. And let's just put it this way. Who are you picking in a playoff series? Fred Van Vliet and Jalen Green or one of these duos from the top of the conference? Right. So, like, I'm with you on that. To me, Denver and the Lakers are both closer to OKC than people realize, just because OKC is also super young and athletic and has a ton of energy for the regular season. The. The question marks that you talked about in terms of the Lakers with the defense, that's where it gets interesting, because the Lakers were playing some pretty damn good basketball before Luca joined the squad there. In their last 13 games, they have the best record in the league and they have the number one defense in the league. The Lakers do the number one defense for about a month now. Now, there's a reason for that. Jared Vanderbilt is healthy. He is an excellent defensive player. And you turn D'Angelo Russell, a bad defensive player, into Dorian Finney Smith, who's a good defensive player. And then a huge part of that is part of that excitement from LeBron has manifested, and he's playing a lot of defense this year, and he's been very good on that end of the floor. But if you take. If you take a player out of that lineup and you insert Luka, you're not going to be as good defensively. That's that's just acknowledging reality. So when Luke is in this picture full time, you're not going to be as good defensively as you've been in the last month. But we've seen an NBA history like with Denver, Denver in 2023. They were not an elite defense.

[Colin Cowherd]

Nope.

[Jason Timf]

But they had bad defenders on the court who did a job and did it well.

[Colin Cowherd]

That's right.

[Jason Timf]

And they were. And they were anchored by good defenders. Kentavius Caldwell, Pope Aaron Gordon, Bruce Brown. They had guys who did compete on defense. They did the hard jobs and then they created easier jobs. That's the thing. You can imagine a scenario where you've got Luca, LeBron, Austin, but you have Dorian, Finney Smith and Vando out there. This is going to be a small ball team. Colin, Alex Len hasn't played a thousand minutes since 2019. LeBron's played 1600 just this year. Like Alex Len, he's not going to, he's not going to come in there and save, save the season. So this is a small ball team, but you can imagine a universe where LeBron's playing defense. You've got two professional defenders in the lineup and what if they just score every time or get a great shot every single time?

[Colin Cowherd]

A team that I think, and I don't know historically, if this happens, I'll tell you the team in the west that I would not want to play. And right now they're not even a playing team. Keep your eye on San Antonio. Okay. Stefan castle out of UConn is no fun to defend. That guy is this time next year we're going to have different conversations. De'Aaron Fox, I think because he plays in Sacramento, you don't realize it. He's a 25 point a night scorer with a high IQ. He's so good, we just don't watch him. Stefan Castle, Wemby, De'Aaron Fox, you know guys, guys that get lost. But I don't know his epa. Yeah, I don't know what all the numbers are, but like Harrison Barnes, you know, it's this guy that Harrison's one of those players that like Shane Battier, you're like, yeah, I think he's really good and he ends up making your team better, but nobody wants to talk about it. I think San Antonio, if you told me they went on like right now, they're not a playing team. I think they're going to go in. Popovich is going to steal a game in a series. Houston's the team we all think is going to be dangerous. I Don't San Antonio, the team nobody's paying attention to. I mean, can you imagine Lakers end up, you know, Denver ends up playing them and Wemby neutralizes Jokic to some degree and castles a pain and gets the whistle. I mean, listen, Denver, you can score on Denver. Like they're just not good. They're not effective at all. So I think, I think the west is really fun. I thought the NBA had a tremendous 14 day period. I thought Jimmy Butler. You know what's funny about this, Jason, is that I know the analytic people think Wiggins may be a better fit with Steph than Jimmy Butler. I read an article on that. But my take is Jimmy Butler's the anti Wiggins. He's tough, he's a badass, he's physical, he's ornery and he's a really good number two. It's like in baseball, it's when you try to make a 201, your pitching staff's not good. Jimmy's an excellent two behind Steph, and he's the opposite of Steph. He's tough physically, he's a mid range guy. He'll defend you. I don't think Golden State's a championship team, but I just thought between Luka, between De'Aaron Fox to San Antonio, between Jimmy Butler, the Warriors, I just thought the west got really, and we've talked about this, the west has been better than the east for 25 years. A lot of it's just better GMs. And I thought the west had a great 14 days.

[Jason Timf]

Yeah, they completely flipped the conference over in a bunch of different ways. I, I liked what you said about San Antonio. Like we were talking earlier about like having a problem that other teams can't solve. Victor's a problem around the rim that other teams can't solve. And then the Deer and Fox as a two man game partner with Wemby is a problem that teams can't solve. The Jimmy Butler thing, it was amazing to me how many people overthought this. And when I was watching the Bucks game last and I saw Jimmy Butler constantly operating in the middle of the floor as kind of like a hub out of the attention that Steph would gather. It reminded me of when we'd watched the warriors back in their heyday, where it's like everyone talks about shooting, but when it comes to the warriors with Steph, you, you don't actually want shooting as much as you want playmaking. Because what happens is Steph gets two to the ball. As soon as Steph gets Two to the ball, it's a four on three. And it becomes more about quick processing and decision making and guys being in the right spots to get dunks and maybe a wide open corner. Three for a certain player out of that sequence to pay it off than it is about, like with LeBron or a rim pressuring guy where you want spacing, you want shooting that pulls guys further away from the rim. Steph inverts your spacing in that way. And it actually reminded me a lot of Andre Guadala. Remember when Andre Guadala was there, he was never a great shooter, but he constantly greased the wheels for them because he was a rangy forward who could screen and operate in the middle of the floor, make quick decisions, knew when to cut, knew when to relocate, do all those sorts of things. There was a play in the Bucks game last night where Steph took a ball screen from Jimmy. Steph got two, he dropped it to Jimmy, and Jimmy made a little ball fake to Buddy, healed, and then dropped it off to Draymond Green for an easy layup underneath the basket. And I literally just watched this and I'm like, this works. This just works. You weren't comfortable with Wiggins as a processor in the middle of the floor. You are comfortable with Jimmy. Simple stat. How many times has Jimmy or how many times has Andrew Wiggins had seven plus assists in a basketball game in his NBA career? 14. How many times did Jimmy have seven plus assists last year with the Heat? 15. So, like, it's an entirely different stratosphere of playmaking talent that you plugged in there. You had a. You have a guy that can quickly process those situations. And they've been killing teams. Colin, so far, obviously, small sample, they've been really good with Jimmy on the floor, with Steph off, which is all that really matters. That's.

[Colin Cowherd]

That's the key. I mean, when I watched them two weeks ago, when Steph left the floor, not only were they inefficient, they were unwatchable. They were. They were a bad tell. I said this. Make the move to be a better TV product. You're terrible.

[Jason Timf]

Well, and like Pat Spencer, like the lacrosse story, it's really cool. He probably shouldn't be your, like, secondary ball handler in a Thursday night national TV game against the Lakers. When steps off the floor like that, that's an issue. But I'm with you. Like, I don't see the warriors necessarily as a substantial threat. To me, what's cool about it is we get to watch Steph play meaningful basketball again because I do think they're going to get out of the play in tournament. I do think they're going to end up getting at least a first round series and that team's just going to be fun to watch.

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[Colin Cowherd]

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[Jason Timf]

I liked him, too. I. There was an obvious question mark, which is he's been in Washington playing loser ball for the last, like. For the last, like, three, four years. And that. That was. That was why all the Bucs fans were concerned. Like, they. They were like, we're trading Chris Middleton, a guy who's hit huge shots for us in the postseason over the years, for a guy like Kyle Kuzma. And, you know, and I heard that, and I wanted to be like, then what did you trade for Dame for? Like that. Like, yeah, you needed Chris to hit the game winner in Game 7 against the Nets. But that was when you had Drew Holiday as your point guard. You have Dame to help you with that. Giannis is a better offensive player than he used to be. One of the things that was really interesting about Kuzma's development is he was kind of the same player in Washington that He was his early years with the Lakers, but then what happened was they get LeBron, they get Anthony Davis, they all of a sudden they're playing a lot of two big lineups. So AD's playing the four and LeBron's playing the three. And there's just not minutes for Kuzma. So he had to. He had to claw his way into the rotation. And the way he did was he became an excellent defensive rebounder, an excellent help side defender, an excellent cutter. He just became a guy who did a bunch of dirty work.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah.

[Jason Timf]

And that's been the most encouraging thing in the, in the three games that I've watched him so far with Milwaukee. He's immediately doing that stuff. I'm watching him against Philly, like, fronting the post against Embiid and battling for loose balls and getting contested rebounds. And you talked about the chaos in his scoring and. And that's real. But one of the weird things with Kuzma is NBA dudes respect him as a scorer, so they.

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, he's had. He's had. Yeah, he's had 25 games in his career. You're like, kuzma's got. Kuzma's got 29 points. Like, what?

[Jason Timf]

Yeah, he's had like 90 something, 25 plus point games in 11:30, 35 plus point games.

[Colin Cowherd]

And he's a crazy offensive player.

[Jason Timf]

Yeah. And I'm already seeing him like, when he pump fakes on the perimeter, dudes are chasing him off the line. So, like, he has offensive utility that goes beyond just his efficiency. But where I get excited about it is like, because Chris Middleton's shot making is less valuable in the context of Dame. You go from having a three, a small forward rotation with Chris and Taurean to thin, like older forwards that don't rebound and aren't great athletes to a dominant rebounder who's huge and young and moves well. And now I look at it in the context of Giannis because Giannis hasn't been playing. He's been resting this calf. He'll be back after the All Star break.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah.

[Jason Timf]

When you put Kuzma next to Giannis and Brook, there's a force multiplier effect going back to the beating the dead horse with this, like, presenting a problem that teams can't handle.

[Colin Cowherd]

That's right.

[Jason Timf]

The Bucks are going to be a monster rebounding team and they are really going to protect the paint well. And that is going to present a problem for teams. And again, I think you're obviously giving up a little bit of just that surgical half court stuff that you get with Chris. Yeah, but let's not overthink this. He was 12 and a half points a game this year. He's not the same player.

[Colin Cowherd]

That's right.

[Jason Timf]

This is a clear talent ad and you've fundamentally altered the physical profile of your front line by bringing him in.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, it's, it's, it's funny. I, you know, I always said if I didn't do what I did for a living, I'd love to be an NFL gm. In the NBA, you could do that. Like, you watch, you have to. I mean, I watch preseason football. Like, it's just, it's a reality of what it is. But in the NBA, sometimes I think we overthink analytics and I'll pivot back to the Lakers. So I always use this argument is I think the smartest team I've ever seen in my life was the Miami Heat when they had Battier, Ray Allen, Udonis Haslam, Chris Bosch, LeBron, D. Wade, Mario Chalmers drove me crazy. It's like he didn't fit. But the rest of those guys were like, really? Sort of.

[Jason Timf]

They're smart players.

[Colin Cowherd]

Like, yeah. And it's like beyond smart. Self awareness, situational awareness. And I remember that Miami team. Jason Joel Anthony was a 69 center. They had no true point guard. LeBron and D. Wade are both like, at the time, streaky shooters, hyper athletic, need the ball to be dominant. And I remember when they put it together, I'm like, the house bosh is the best shooter out outside of Ray Howells. Like, I don't even know what this team is. They were so smart, they were so good. They fed off each other. There was no egos. It was like LeBron was just so damn happy to play with another elite player after all those years in Cleveland. And it was just a force of optimism. It was a force of intellect. I loved watching them play. I think they're one of the weaker dominant teams of my life. They didn't have a dominant big. They didn't have a point. It was just like smart dudes understood spacing the floor and everybody. And I think D. Wade is really a key component in that. He understood very early. Oh, wow. LeBron's really good. I'll be at 2. I'm totally happy. I don't need to be the ace on the staff. By the way. A lot of guys struggle with that. D. Wade smart's like, no, no, no, I'm good. I'll step back. It's my city, it's his team. And I think sometimes we get too caught up in that. Like Draymond, really smart basketball player. Jimmy Butler, really smart. Curry, really smart. In the end, these games, remember when you go to the playoffs, you're playing the same team. Everybody knows your little tricks. They all become circumstantial. They're all situational half court. Like, Houston's not going to run like that in the playoffs. You're not going to get all those free. You're not going to get that 12 points a game you get because you're young, athletic, twitchy, you run. You're not going to get that stuff. So I don't know, I just, when it comes to NBA teams, like right now I look at the Lakers and I'm thinking, Jesus, Luka and LeBron are really big brands, self aware, very secure. I don't know, I just look at the Lakers differently today. I think they're a different team. I mean, Austin Reeves, it's a bunch of guys, they all kind of have the same game, different levels of it. They want the ball, they like the ball. But when I watched them last night, I'm like, everybody is completely secure in who they are. There's not going to be any struggles with this team. I don't know, maybe I'm too optimistic on being an LA homer, but there is value and I know I'm being long winded on this. There is value on smart guys playing basketball and enjoying watching other people succeed. That's a thing, right?

[Jason Timf]

To, to your point, the playoffs are so much about problem solving. Like, okay, we're having trouble with this coverage. What are we going to do? We're having trouble with them running this action. What are we going to do? And you just put enough smart minds in a room and they can figure it out. And you know, I think there's a little too much being made of the center position. You know, even as I'm looking at some of the stuff with the centers that were being thrown out there, I want to be like, okay, this center might be your seventh or eighth best player. I don't want my seventh or eighth best player playing 20 minutes in a playoff. I he's a guy who you should be barely seeing the four. And I think one of the things that makes me optimistic on the size front is like, Luca is 6, 9. LeBron is 6, 9. Dorian Finney Smith is 6, 8. Rui's big 6, 9. J. Vanderbilt is 6, 9.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, this is not small ball.

[Jason Timf]

They're small, but they're huge. Like it's a Bunch of huge perimeter players. And like I imagine a scenario in the playoffs where it all goes down where it's, it's Austin, LeBron, Luca, where Austin's your small guy, but then it's 6, 9, 6 9. And then it's going to be two of Vando Rui or Dorian Finney Smith who are both six nine or all six, nine rangy forwards. And so for example, look at Oklahoma City. So like Oklahoma City is really good, but it's like a lot of six five and six six guys. So like there's. Even though they will present issues with their bigs in that series, like chat's a problem, Isaiah Hartenstein's a problem. The Lakers are going to have 4 inches on every single matchup in that series that's on the perimeter, which is something to at least account when you're talking about this sort of thing. And that's where I look at the problem solving piece. Like, like LeBron, you know, we, we talk so much about Kevin Durant being a plug and play guy. And for the record, I think he probably still is the best plug and play guy. But LeBron's a plug and play guy too. It's like, you mean the guy who can defend and can rebound and can run? He can run action, but he can also screen, he can shoot. When he's in spot up situations, he can play out of the post. Like LeBron can just shape shift into whatever your team needs. It's like the other night against golden state, he has 17 rebounds in a game. You know why? Because it's like we don't have a center. So tonight I'm just going to grab every damn rebound. Like that's, that's just what I'm going to do because that's what the team needs me to do. And so when I, when I look at that group, it's just there's, there's a lot of like kind of Swiss army knives in that group. And I think that that goes a long way towards kind of like problem solving. The types of things that you're going to run into in the postseason. As a matter of fact, even when it comes to the center position, the only thing I really concern, I'm. The only thing I'm concerned about is Jokic. Like they don't have anybody that can even come remotely close to bothering.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, we talked about this on the show. J. Mac and I talked about this today. I'm like, Yokesh, just scoring 45 points in the series. Like, just bake it in. Pick on Jamal Murray's defense, like whatever, but he's going to score 45. You just have to come to terms with it.

[Jason Timf]

Yeah, I, I agree. I, I, the only reason why I'm, I'm waiting to, to, to watch more Lakers basketball before I come to any sort of conclusion is like you mentioned, Denver can struggle to guard and that means they're definitely going to struggle to guard the Lakers because everyone's going to struggle to guard the Lakers. And two, this is not the 2020, 2023 nuggets where they had Kentavious Caldwell Pope as like this shoe in fifth guy. It's going to be a lot of like Christian Brown or Russell Westbrook seeing minutes in the postseason. And those are guys that I think J.J. redick's going to be like, that's not Kentavius Caldwell Pope, we can help off of him. Now Denver's going to find ways to score. They're going to score a lot of points in that sort of matchup. But I am curious to watch they play in like a week and a half and I'll be really interested to watch that game mostly just to see how effectively they can break down Denver's defense because JJ is going to have plans. He's going to have things that he can try to get to get the ball out of Jokic his hands. But that's an interesting matchup there and it's a classic example of styles make fights. And I don't know about you, Colin, but if we look at last year in the Western Conference, that was a matchup playoff series in every single round. It was like, oh, Denver couldn't handle Minnesota, but Minnesota couldn't handle Dallas. I think Denver probably beats Dallas, right? You get matchups here or there. Like what if, what if Denver ends up at the 4 seed because the Lakers pass them at some point in the regular season. Now Denver's got to get through OKC in round two before they even see the Lakers. So like that's where, that's where it gets into one of these situations where you can't write any of these teams off because they could catch a matchup and lose early.

[Colin Cowherd]

You know, a team that's, I think the NBA has always been better when the Knicks are relevant. And between Mikhail Bridges, Jalen Brunson, Cat, Josh Hart, OG It's a really good basketball team, but they do not match up with the Celtics. And this is where you're really good. I mean, I've watched them play the Celtics twice and that shit's not competitive. Like It's. It does not work now. It's. It's almost like the Celtics have circumvented the NBA cba. The NBA cba. They don't want you to have, like, five really good players. And it's almost like the Celtics figured out a way to be the last team that can have a roster that you. You're not supposed to have anymore, where Derek White's your fifth best guy some.

[Jason Timf]

Nights, and now they're trying to sell the team so someone else has to pay for it. Yeah, yeah.

[Colin Cowherd]

Like, it's like they're almost circumventing the cba. Like, this is not really fair. And you can tell. So I think New York's a really good basketball team, and I. And I think I trust them in the playoffs. I think they're smart. I think they've got, you know, it's well chronicled. They're kind of got a Villanova feel. They play hard. They're smart. I think they're one of those teams that'll be a better playoff team than a regular season team, and they're a good regular season team. There are teams like Houston, I think, are a better regular season team than a playoff team. The Knicks are going to be fine, but I watched them now twice play Boston, and I want you to break it down because they don't match up. And this is a good team. Let's just be honest about this. They got five to six guys in that rotation. The Knicks can match up with almost every team in the league. Why is Boston. And you can tell Boston, like, when they played this past week, that's a national TV game. They're like, okay, all right, guys. I mean, that thing was. I mean, it four minutes in, you're like, yeah, yeah, Boston came to play. Boston's not effing around. Why doesn't New. Because I think New York has enough different players and they play hard enough and they're really smart and they're well coached. They kind of match up with everybody. They do not match up with Boston. Like, what is it?

[Jason Timf]

So there. There are two kind of prevailing theories in NBA offense right now, which is like, matchup hunting versus, like, running motion. And the motion is like, what you see with the Warriors. There's tons of screens. Guys are running in circles all over the floor. Boston's like, where's your weakest defender? Let's get him up here. Let's play some basketball. And, like, that's literally all they do. And when I watch that game, the way they surgically attacked Jalen Brunson and Carl Anthony Towns. Every single time down the floor, they'd get them both in, they'd bring the ball up the floor, they'd have Jalen Brunson's man come screen for Tatum. Okay, now Jalen Brunson's on Tatum. Okay, now we're gonna get Cat into the action. So now it's like Tatum and one of his teammates attacking Kat and Brunson in the same action, and there's just nothing they can do about it. The Knicks are really, really good. They can score whenever they want. They get out and transition like crazy. They've got all of these good players that are super bought into their fun.

[Colin Cowherd]

To watch, fun to watch.

[Jason Timf]

They're super fun to watch, and they have beat the shit out of some good teams this year.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yep.

[Jason Timf]

But every time I've watched him against Boston, it's the exact same issue. We are going to get Carl Anthony Towns in space and make him guard and just get right past him and spray out and get great shots and beat you. It's actually kind of funny, Colin, because you can tell that they really want to beat the Knicks because the Celtics have played some pretty bad basketball in the middle of the season where they're not deliberate and where they do take bad shots and they settle and they don't do the things they need to do. They see the Knicks and they, like, snap back to the playoffs last year, and they just get surgical in the way that they pick on those guys. But it really just comes down to they go at New York's worst defenders every single time. And then they. They play driving, kick out of it to get great shots. And. And that really is the issue. And then Jalen Brunson, he just has this wall of athletic, bigger defender. Every single possession. As it goes down to the other end, it's like, here's Jaylen Brown, here's Drew Holiday, here's Derrick White. He's just. It's such a difficult job for him to consistently break down that Boston defense because they just have so many different defenders they can put on him.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, it's interesting to say that, because I really like the dexterity of the Knicks. I think they're a matchup problem. Carl Anthony Towns is offensively gifted. He's shooting threes right now. The best he's ever. I mean, he's really shooting the ball well. He's quirky. I've seen him play live four times, and there will be halves. You're like, is he a top 10 player in the league. Like he can destroy people, he can embarrass people and then in the second half you'll be like did did he take a sleep aid? Did he have a thera flu at half like what happened? But it is interesting you break it and I'm so glad for our audience listening. Jason is so good at this and that's why I just foisted it up to him is when I've watched them play twice the Celtics and it shit is not competitive. They just do not match up at all.

[Jason Timf]

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[Colin Cowherd]

You know the NBA is a funny league where the NFL sort of separated from everybody for a lot of reasons. Our society is so distracted now. The TikToks, the platforms, the iPhone. So regular season games. When you play like hockey or baseball, it's really hard NBA. It's really hard college basketball to get ratings Monday through Friday. So college football, ufc, the NBA, the World cup, they have big advantages. They feel like events. We're more of an event this Netflix has figured this out. We're more of an event culture now than a Monday through Friday, right? And we're just more distracted. But I will say this about the NBA and I think they may not have their best players in the best markets. But Luka going to la, Jimmy Butler to San Francisco. The Knicks are fun to watch. So is Boston. I think it's bigger than people think De'Aaron Fox to WEMBY. Baseball had a massive resurgence last year and let's not, let's not try to overthink this. It's because Bryce Harper's in Philly, Aaron Judge is in New York. The Dodgers are an all star team. The Mets are really good. Like all the really good players are almost all in the right markets. I thought it was not just a good week for the NBA. They repositioned their players. Wemby is the next superstar. Oh, De'Aaron Fox goes to him, Luka to LA. Like the Knicks are really fun to watch. Boston's outstanding. And by the way, it's okay to have an okc. That's nothing wrong with that. But it's like I, I don't know, I it and it's easy to beat the NBA up and it is. Baseball is an agent run sport, basketball is a player run sport. NFL, sort of an executive run sport, which is the life that most of us can relate to and live in. I thought it was a substantial like, honestly if you're Adam Silver and you could have pulled levers, you would have wanted Butler with Steph, you would have wanted Wemby to get a 25 point guy. From your perspective, you watch the NBA regardless. I thought it was the best 10 to 14 day period the NBA has had in five years. Seriously.

[Jason Timf]

Oh, 100% agree. I found this to be so fascinating, Colin, because you know, first of all, I'm a die hard basketball fan and so when I hear people talk about the NBA in a negative light, I'm like, I get defensive, I'm like, no, we're good. This just please watch. It's going to be interesting, I promise. And it's like when everyone was talking about all this stuff early in the season, there were all these different prevailing opinions. And that for the record is what made it interesting is no one knows, no one knew why the ratings were down. And I was kind of keyed in on the concept of urgency. I kept thinking like, what was the difference between like 1998 when Michael Jordan was playing in right now? And the difference is there's just thousands of more options both on your TV and on your smartphone. It is a much more competitive space. And I still think that that is the primary barrier if between the NBA and like getting real consistently great ratings. That said, like, what really dawned on me in the last week as NBA interest skyrocketed and even though the NFL is going to be just fine, there was a little bit of a stagnant kind of stretch there in the last couple of weeks where it's like, here are the Chiefs again. Here are the Eagles again. It's kind of the same storylines. Okay, yeah. Taylor Swift, what we talked about all that last year. It was, like, kind of a little bit stagnant. And what dawned on me, Colin, is I think the NBA screwed the pooch a little bit with this latest CBA by restricting player movement so much. It was a. It was a problem where it became the only thing the NBA was where all we talked about was players moving. And you don't want. You don't want to go that far. But the truth of the matter is, is a good amount of the intrigue in the NBA comes down to player movement.

[Colin Cowherd]

That's right.

[Jason Timf]

And it's. And it's been like that my whole life. It keeps things fresh.

[Colin Cowherd]

I told Adam Silver this when he joined me. I said, adam, you guys are too worried about this. I find the warriors boring when Steph's off the floor. I'm now going to watch them play. I already have watched them play. Player movements front. The NFL figured this out. They moved their free agency, period. They're like, people like this stuff. It's fantasy football, I think. Listen, the NBA has always been a little concerned with tanking, but I do think sometimes the NBA worries about problems that are just natural and authentic and organic, and it's okay. Like, people like, they, like trades take out LeBron. The truth is, even KD's player movement outside of the warriors, it hasn't made the league unfair. One of his moves was great. The last two haven't done anything.

[Jason Timf]

Yeah. They almost always don't pan out, actually.

Right.

It's kind of hilarious. It's like, who's going to be the next person to put all their chips in the basket and have some sort of. Some sort of issue? But, like, yeah, that's kind of the way that I look at it. I think part of it is they listen too much to certain owners, and you almost need to get those guys together and be like, look, I get it. Like, when this happens and you lose your star, it can be a problem. But the flip side of it is, is, like, we are all going to make a lot more money if there's intrigue surrounding the league in an absence of urgency. We can make up for it with intrigue. And again, I. You don't want to go too far. You don't want to get it to where it becomes a soap opera. But I thought it like, Colin, it was like everyone was so just like, whatever about the NBA all season until. Until the Luca trade went down.

[Colin Cowherd]

That's right.

[Jason Timf]

And then it's just. And it was almost like it kind of like broke the ice in a way to where everyone was like, you know what? Let's shake things up too. Next thing you know, you have six stars changing teams, you have all these new cores that you're looking at. It just become. It just. It just shook things up in the right way to reinvigorate interest. And so from that standpoint, like, I do wonder if the NBA needs to take a look at a little bit more bal. Between. Like, you need to find a way to incentivize players staying with teams, but at the same time make it possible for them to be moved. Because right now it's too difficult to move them because of the apron rules and all these different things. And so like, like, they're. Colin. More players would have moved if it wasn't for the. The current CBA structure. Like, when you have to match salaries, but you can't take in additional money, and now everyone needs a third team to eat up salary just to facilitate a deal. Like, it just. It made it difficult and like, everyone did it anyway. But, like, the point is, is I think the NBA kind of overindexed on stability.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yes.

[Jason Timf]

And now all of a sudden, when you have stability without urgency, it just becomes boring.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah. And I think, you know, it. It's. It's funny about professional sports is people talk about parody, but TV networks pay about 35% for all these leagues or more. They don't want parity. Fox doesn't give a rip if they have to televise the Eagles every week and never the Panthers, like, they don't care. It's like the reality is, is the NBA partners at Amazon, NBA, ESPN, Amazon and NBC. If eight to 10 teams are fun to watch, then those are the teams you televise. Like Fox. We're going to televise the Padres, the Dodgers, the Mets, the Yankees, maybe the Braves. Cause they're so big in the south. And that's about 65 to 75% of the games you televise. We're not beholden to televising the Mariners. It doesn't matter. And the NBA is not. ESPN doesn't have to televise Sacramento. So I agree with you, is that people like deals. I think what's happened in our society is that as we're more distracted, it takes more to grab our attention. But basketball at its core, I mean, at its core is A fun watch. It has many things that are really good. It's driven by stars. It's got egos, it's got rivalries, it's got a hierarchy. It's cool. You see celebrities at games. There's a lot of things that you know. Baseball had a very good season, but baseball is long, the pacing is slow. Celebrities don't go to games. The season is twice the NBA. There's a lot of things with baseball that in the current sort of societal structure and how we're built now don't work. That's why speeding the game up was so important. Basketball's always had certain things. Young people like it. It's the culture, their shoes. It's star driven. So the key is, can you get the stars moving around a little bit? Can you hopefully get them in your Bostons and your Las and your Chicago's and your New Yorks and Phillies? Yeah. Markets kind of matter. But it reminded me, Jason, years ago when, before Obama became the presidential candidate, the Democratic party was just sort of lost. And then all of a sudden, a year later, after Barack Obama becomes president, you're like, wow, that party is strong. They are dominant. That is the smart party. It is amazing when Conor McGregor, as UFC is growing and growing and Conor McGregor is this crazy talent, it's like it just took UFC to a completely. Oh, you've got to watch Saturday night. Conor McGregor's fighting. Jon Jones is fighting. The truth is, the Lakers are good, the Celtics are good, The Knicks are good. Jason, the league's good. I mean, seriously, San Francisco, New York, Los Angeles, Boston. Yep. League's going to be just fine.

[Jason Timf]

You got to think about the casual fan. Like, when I. When I think about, like the nut jobs like me that are going to watch the season no matter what, we're not the people that you're trying to impress. And that. And that really is the. The bottom line there. There has to be some intrigue. The NFL does it with urgency. And it's just so easy for anyone to watch the game and realize one team's trying to move this way and the other team's trying to. Like, it's basically like 11 on 11. Tug of war, if you really look at it. Basketball. It just needed this. And like, I can't even. Colin, I. Rob Palinka, after trading for Luka Doncic, got through the deadline without a center and put all of his eggs in the basket of Mark Williams, who's played like a third of the basketball games that he could have played in since he came into the League. Rob Pelinka and Jeannie Buss. Had this not gone down, the Lakers probably would have spiraled for another decade. Yeah, it's hard for me to even quantify how much of a solid Nico Harrison in the Mavs did here for not just the Lakers, but for the entire NBA. Yeah, because they set the Lakers up for the next decade when they probably would have spiraled from here. It really is a remarkable turn of events.

[Colin Cowherd]

You know, I. Let's finish with this. I had said this. I am not going to defend Nico Harrison. I'm not going to do it. But with the new max deal and because Luca, because of his all NBA and his experience, qualified for, like, the top of the food chain. It was different when the max to LeBron was 38 million. And that still wasn't maybe as much as a great NFL quarterback. When the max now is 74 million annually. Okay, I get owners saying, he's not in great shape. He doesn't defend. He's missed the last two camps. He hasn't played since Christmas. There's a duality to all this stuff. Yes, the stars will be paid more than Patrick Mahomes, like 30% more, in some instances, 20% more. But I do get even billionaires going, okay, okay, okay. We've gotten to 75 million a year. Just say this out loud. Doesn't defend. Not in great shape. Missed camp second time, hasn't played since Christmas, doesn't have a great work ethic, naturally gifted offensively, yet that doesn't sound like a $74 million employee. Like, LeBron qualifies that. And Edwards, I mean, there's. There's Wemby's, there's. There's good a handful of players. You're like, you just pay that Steph Curry. But I do think is that when you get into a stratosphere where you're paid more than the highest paid CEOs on Wall street, like, there's a big difference. You're like, ooh, you know, guys making 35 million a year, okay, that's insane money. $74 million a year. And it's like, yeah, he's missed the last couple camps. He hasn't played since Christmas. I do think. And you start looking at Kauai, you look at Embiid, and then you look at NBA legends like Kobe and LeBron. There was a little bit of a Shaq quality with Luka where you're like, yeah, I know he's transformational. But the Lakers moved off Shaq. They moved off Shaq, and they Talked about conditioning and commitment and playing defensively beyond block shots. So I'm not saying it's a good job. I wouldn't have made the deal. But I think, Jason, when you start getting into 74 million, I get an owner going and I got, I got paid five years of this and I'm watching these, like, hasn't played since Christmas. I kind of get it to some degree. Am I nuts?

[Jason Timf]

You're not. I mean, the concept that you're talking about, I think I've run into a lot as I'm looking at certain players. Like, even I saw the Brandon Ingram deal today and I'm like, like, good God, 40 million a year for Brandon Ingram. I'm like, I'm like, when he's healthy and in rhythm, he's good. But he's been that like 10% of the time over the last couple of years.

[Colin Cowherd]

That's right.

[Jason Timf]

That series against the Suns in the first round a couple of years back, he looked amazing. But it's like, that's a lot of money to tie up Jalen Brown. I like Jalen Brown, but there's some years at the end of his deal where he's making like 65 million. That's a lot of money to pay for some Jaylen Brown when he's regarded.

[Colin Cowherd]

As the second best player on a team, second most gifted. It's like, I like Jaylen Brown, but I think fans are forgetting 65, $75 million. It's just different. It's like Elon Musk. And I forget when this happened over the last couple weeks, it's like, didn't Denmark or something like, reject his bonus? There was some story about people went, okay, you can't have a billion dollar bonus. Like, we're not doing that. Even among rich people, there are numbers that feel egregious. And I am going to look under the and I'm going to examine everything. If Luca was 48 million today, you just not worry about the defense. But barking at officials not in shape hurt misses second Cam hasn't played since Christmas, doesn't defend. I, I, there's part of me that just gets it. There's a Shaq thing going on.

[Jason Timf]

I get it. Here's my one counterpoint. Shaq was considerably older at the time.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yes.

[Jason Timf]

And in my opinion, there are five transformational talents in the NBA. Five talents that if you get this guy, everything you do is so much easier. With team building, it's Jokic, it's Giannis, it's Shay, Gil, just Alexander. It's wemby and it's Luca. To me, Luca is one of those guys, and he's 25 years old. Even with the cap, like, they're. They're smoothing the cap so they don't have. So that they avoid the Kevin durant situation in 2016. But the cap's going to go up, like, something crazy, like, 10 million a year in perpetuity through the end of the decade as they. As they wrap in all this new TV money. So, like, even in the context of team building, I think, like, even if Luca was taking up 75 million in my cap, but I think I can get a payroll up to 180, 190 within a couple of years. I feel like I like my chances building around Luca. And so, like, even though I agree with all things you said, and Colin, I made sure to say this in my show after the trade, like. Like, I was super critical of Luca after the finals. We talked about it. It was the worst defensive performance I've ever seen from a star in the Finals. His conditioning is embarrassing. For the record. One of the things I'm excited about is I want. I think LeBron. You can see it in his body language. I think LeBron is trying so hard to set an example for him. He's on. He's on Instagram in his hyperbaric chamber. He's hustling around on defense like he's never done it in his life.

[Colin Cowherd]

Like, LeBron is tripping.

[Jason Timf]

LeBron is trying to set this example for Luka because he knows the potential that is there. But this is all I would say. He's fat, he's chubby, and he's slow, but he was fat and slow in the. In the playoffs last year, and he absolutely obliterated the Minnesota Timberwolves and got within three wins of the trophy. Like, at a certain point, I'm like, let's not overthink this. Even though I agree with everything you're saying, I just think Luka is worth the risk.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah. So it's called Hoops Tonight. It's Jason Timf. I think he has the ability to break down games and film as well as anybody that does this. And he's going to become, as we know, when football season ends, we do a lot more with Jason. It's always great to see you. I got to be honest. I have been really. I had a stomach virus. I've been staying away from the rocks, but I just had one, and I'm going to have another one. We sign off tonight. That really did. I can be a little blurry tonight. I got to watch it. What game is tonight? What do we got tonight?

[Jason Timf]

Oh, man, I haven't even looked at the slate yet.

[Colin Cowherd]

Let's go get.

[Jason Timf]

I would imagine that the several more new trade trade guys to watch. All right, Grizzlies Sons. That's a fun one. Nick's Pacers. That's a fun one.

[Colin Cowherd]

All right, there we go. Good seeing you, buddy.

[Jason Timf]

Good to see you too, man. Looking forward to the rest of the season.

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[Jason Timf]

What's up everyone?

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Julie Swearbinks here along with former NHL player Nate Thompson.

[Jason Timf]

We're doing a new podcast together. Here we go. The name Energy Line with Nate and jsb. Each week we'll get together and talk about hockey life. All topics are fair game, right? Exactly.

[American Express Representative]

And you'll never know who will drop.

[Jason Timf]

By to join us. Julie is pretty well connected. She has text threads going that you wouldn't believe. Listen to Energy Line with Nate and.

[American Express Representative]

Jsb on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts.

[Jason Timf]

Or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Colin Cowherd]

Hey, it's Alec Baldwin. This past season on my podcast, here's the thing, I spoke with more actors, musicians, policymakers, and so many other fascinating.

[Jason Timf]

People like writer and actor Dan Aykroyd.

[Colin Cowherd]

I love writing more than anything. You're left alone. You know, you do three hours in the morning, you write three hours in the afternoon. Go pick up a kid from school and write at night. And after nine hours you come out with seven pages and then you're moving on. Listen to here's the thing on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.