← The Herd with Colin Cowherd
The Herd with Colin Cowherd
OKC Takes Game 5 Over Pacers, Durant Wants To Join Spurs, Ja Morant’s Future? Desmond Bane Perfect For Magic
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- [00:00]
Colin Cowherd
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- [01:17]
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- [02:17]
Colin Cowherd
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- [03:57]
All right, welcome to Hoops Tonight here at the Volume. Happy Monday everybody. Hope all of you guys are having a great start to your week. Well, the pivotal game of the NBA Finals tonight. G series tied at two back in Oklahoma City and the Thunder behind 71 combined points from Shay. Gilus Alexander and Jalen Williams take a 32 lead in the series. Colin Coward is joining us again. Colin, you and I talked last after game three I believe about the the rosters and we talked about how down the roster. Indiana's pretty close in terms of depth of talent, but that the top end on Oklahoma City can be tough to contend with. And I thought both J Dub and Shea were brilliant tonight. What were your thoughts on game five?
- [04:39]
Jalen Williams is such an interesting player. So he goes to a small college, Santa Clara and you know, he's a slow developing player and the last part of his game to mature was scoring. You know, he was long, he worked really hard. I think both of his parents were in the military. You know, classic, like hard working, no bs. You know, you can see his game, you can see the work he's put into it. Whenever you see a guy with great touch around the rim, a lot of guys can hit jumpers. Everybody, you know, everybody sits and shoots jumpers all day at practice. But when I see a guy that's elegant and soft around the rim, like that's work that Is years of working in the gym, often by yourself, and, you know, so here's a guy, small college, develops, slowly comes into the NBA. And you and I have talked about this. I always thought, because Chuck Holmgren was. He's a really good defender. First half tonight, he was incredible. And I always thought because his body type is so unique. Can you pay Holmgren, S.J. and Jalen Williams. And I always thought they'd just keep Holmgren, but his offense is so all over the map, and Jalen Williams is just such a natural easy scorer that you just feel like. If I said for the rest of his career, he averaged 27 and, like, not all of them are memorable. It's just. He just fills the box like it's jumpers, it's touch. He's just such a natural easy score. I don't even know if he has a go to move almost every guy. Like, if I said, close your eyes, Jason, 27 points a game. If I said Durant or staff, and I give you players, you can kind of see the archetype of their offense. Like, you could say, okay, that's his move, that Halliburton's three with Jalen Williams, it's just all over the place. Threes driving transition. I just. There's not a lot of guys in the league like him.
- [06:45]
Yeah, his power, I think, is his signature. And I've actually found this really fascinating because if you dig back through NBA history recently, we're on like a decade plus now where. Where power dominates in the NBA Finals. Unless your name is Steph Curry. Like, you go back and it's like, in 2024, you know, Luka. Luka is the best player in the playoffs. He brings a ton of power to the position. 2023, it's Jokic, obviously, Steph in 2022, but in 21, it's Giannis power. 2020, it's LeBron power. 2019, it's Kawhi power. You go back again more Steph Curry, but then it's LeBron, it's Duncan in Kawhi. There is a reason why power thrives in this setting, and it's because it gets super physical. I mean, it's the. You know, it's really fascinating to me. I've talked about this concept with you before, but to me, ball pressure in physicality, on the perimeter in the NBA is similar to me like a pass rush in the NFL. And we see this so often in the NFL playoffs where a pass rush gets hot and nobody can protect the quarterback and plays all Break down within the first, second and a half after the snap and it changes the entire dynamic of a game. And that's the test you have to pass with this Oklahoma City Thunder team, with this Indiana Pacers team with their ball pressure. These two teams, they pick you up full court, they're super physical and it's the powerful guys that thrive. I mean, you don't think it's a coincidence that TJ McConnell was awesome again tonight because he brings power to the guard position. And what J Dub is, is he is a big, strong wing that brings downhill power. And you're right. Like I, I would argue J Dub's, you know, skill, talent in position on the game is his versatility. He's just really good at everything. Look at other, other power players from the wing. Like look at, look at Jalen Brown from the Celtics. Nowhere near the passer that J Dub is and the processor that J Dub is. J Dub brings this mix of downhill power with shot making from all three levels. The soft touch around the basket, the mid range pull ups, the three point shooting, but also the playmaking to boot. And then he's also been a guy that's been one of the most important defensive players for the Thunder all season. He is to me the definition of the type of player that's going to thrive in the playoffs for a long time. A big strong forward that can do everything. He is the Jimmy Butler of this era.
- [09:02]
Yeah. And he, he's one of those guys. Yeah, he, that's right. I, I was thinking about his comp tonight and he's got Jimmy Butler. Um, he feel. I, you know, he, he's only about six, five and a half. Like he plays bigger than his size and I think that's his length and his touch. But I really thought the story of the game wasn't sg. I thought the story of the game was Holmgren's defense. First half around the rim. I mean, the Pacers probably missed eight chippies. And then I thought in the second half, every time it was really J Dub that hit a shot and I mean, so did sga. But I was like encouraged. I thought the fact that Indiana got it down to two or three, I was like, this is impossible. This is not winning this game. You know, without Halliburton to be pretty competitive in the second half, I think speaks well to Indiana. I think they'll play really competitive basketball in game six. You know, I think we've kind of established defense wins championships. And I thought the last three minutes of the last game and tonight early and late. It just, we're seeing this defense, like you say, they clog you up and suffocate you on the perimeter. You drive sort of sometimes out of control because you just. They got a body on you and then you throw up. Kind of a wild shot. And it's often met with resistance at the rim. Even the follow ups to your misses, even the follow ups are contested. There's just length and Hartenstein and Holmgren and bodies. So I think we're seeing, and I talked about this the other day with J. Mac on the air. When we have historically great defenses against great offenses, defense usually wins. It's just disruptive. We've seen Patrick Mahomes blown out twice in his career, both in Super Bowls when he couldn't be protected. I feel like Indiana's just, was. Has just been disrupted and they, without Halliburton at full strength, they just don't have a flow. There's no flow to their offense.
- [11:03]
Yeah, I thought, I thought Shea was great again tonight. I thought, you know, it's been interesting. He's had a couple of higher scoring total games in this series. He had 35 in game four. Didn't think he was particularly great in that game, Ted. I think he had 34 in game one. I didn't think he was particularly great in that game. But in this game you could tell right out the gates he was making that concerted effort to keep his teammates involved. Colin, they only attempted 16 threes in game four. They had 17 three point attempts just in the first half tonight because of the better floor game that Shea was playing, keeping everybody involved. But every time I think about this Thunder team, it is the defense that I'll remember. Like when people talk to me about this Thunder team, I will remember them as a defensive juggernaut. And like it's the two layer approach and you had, you, you described it perfectly. It is the physical ball pressure that causes you to rush and panic. That is then layered by the rim protection. And it even extends beyond Shay or beyond Chet, like Shea several times tonight. Deflections around the basket because he's got super long arms down there. You know, Chet to me is like kind of the secret sauce of this defense though, because you know, Colin, we saw a great example in the Houston Golden State series in round one. You can have really good perimeter defenders, but every team needs to have big guys on the floor because big guys are a part of basketball, right? Like, you can't just go out there and play five guards. You'll have all Sorts, all sorts of issues. And big guys are targets. They are the point at which every offense tries to get into your defense by attacking your big guy in pick and roll. And Shet is just this freakish weapon because he can do all the big guy stuff in terms of length around the rim, but he can also switch out onto the perimeter and guard these guards. And so it, it, it's like the, it's like the, the ace in the hole for this Thunder defense. It's like you, a lot of times you'll fail the first test, like when Pascal hit that 3 to make it 95, 93. From that point forward, Indy could barely get the ball across half court without turning the ball over. So, like, their guards can do an insane amount of damage. But it's like, even if you pass that test and you get through the ball pressure and you move the ball through their defense and you get something around the rim, it's just arms everywhere that you're dealing with at the rim. And all those misses, all of those contested rebounds that they came down with. Oklahoma City's defense is layered. It's frightening. It wears you down. I mean, like, Indy was right there and they let go of the rope for like 90 seconds and they're down 13 points. And I'm with you as we head to game six. I think Indiana always is going to have a chance at home with the energy. Oklahoma City is young. We have discussed on this show, Oklahoma City on the road is not the same team. But I, I, I thought Indiana's chance to win this series was to win the home games. Because I just think Oklahoma City can lay, like, leverage, their athleticism, a way that Indy just can't match.
- [13:54]
Yeah, and again, Halliburton's hurt. It's not the same team. It'd be like taking, you know, to some degree, sga out. So I thought Caruso again tonight. I mean, they forced 23 turnovers. The Thunder did think about that. Indies a team all year that didn't turn the ball over. Like, Halliburton doesn't turn the ball over. So you take Halliburton out a lot tonight, and it looks really sloppy, really fast. Um, again, they're just, they're just a special team. I, you know, I think, you know, Indiana's a surprise to be here, and the west is much better than the east. And so, like, in the football, the AFC is much better than the nfc, so the AFC becomes much more predictable because you have four or five elite teams. Chiefs, Bills, Ravens. And I think the west is more predictable because you have, like, Oklahoma City has the leading score and the best defense, and Denver has the best player in the world. And the warriors have this Steve Kerr and Draymond and Butler and Stephen. You kind of know what you're getting in the west, whereas in the east, it's like, who's healthy and who's hot. So Indiana just flies through. But I. But I will say is. So I think the east is wide open, and I think Indiana's pop. Or now they were in the Eastern Conference finals last year, but, I mean, they flew through Milwaukee flew through Cleveland, controlled New York, and we're two. Two with this team. And I think some of the trade that Memphis and Orlando made was Orlando going okay. The Knicks don't have a coach. Tatum's hurt. Next year. Why can't we do an Indiana? We got Suggs, we got Bankera, we got Wagner. Let's go get a Western player who averages 19. He may average 22 over here. And I think. I think Orlando looked at Indiana and thought, why not us? I mean, they don't have a guy that scores over 20. Bank Carroll could be first team all NBA next year. So I think when I watch Indiana, I think they're. They're. They're encouraging. They've got young, ascending players. They've kind of meshed together in the east. And you're like, okay, it was one thing when Boston was winning with a stacked roster. Indiana, why can't. I think I said it during the Boston Orlando series. I'm like, man, they're about a year away from being really, really good. So I think Indiana is one of those teams that may not make it back, and it may just be lightning in a bottle. I really like him a lot, but I think OKC is historically special defensively, and we're seeing it.
- [16:36]
Yeah, the. The east, to me, feels wide open in a different way, where I agree with you. Like, the. Boston was like this clear number one out east, but then you had this, like, group of three, four teams that you knew were going to be in the mix. You know, Milwaukee, New York, that. That was the mix that we knew was going to be at the top. But now with Boston kind of dropping out of that group, it does feel wide open. Like, Cleveland is very good, but everyone knows they're beatable. Like, the. The Bucks will be there if Giannis is still there. But, like, we know that they're beatable. The Knicks, we know that they have their flaws and their issues. They have a front court that you can Attack defensively. And I think what the Pacers have demonstrated in a lot of ways is that you can, you know, out kick your coverage, so to speak, in terms of the talent on your roster when there is a great deal of one, that the coaching, that, that maximizes the talent. But the second piece is from a general management perspective, like actual complementary pieces that fit and accentuate each other. And that to me is what I look at with the Desmond Bain trade. Because like your initial reaction when you see that sort of thing is to go four first round picks unprotected. Like, my goodness, that's a steep paycheck. And like, I get that on the surface and ultimately whether or not that ends up being worthwhile will be whether or not this team has success. And if they have success, they make the finals. No one's going to care about those four first round picks. It's about whether or not this pays off. Right? Desmond Bain is a perfectly complimentary player to what those two guys do. He is a. He is one of the best jump shooters in the NBA among 58 players this year to attempt at least 500 jumpers. He ranked 12th in efficiency, by the way.
- [18:09]
And the Magic couldn't shoot last year. That's what they couldn't do.
- [18:13]
They couldn't shoot, by the way. You want to know who's number one on that list? Kevin Durant. Kevin Durant is still the best jump shooter in the NBA. I thought that was interesting when I was digging in, digging into the data. But he specifically shot 60% from the field on shot attempts, coming off of off ball screens. So when he comes running off of action off the ball, he knocks it down at an extremely high rate. He shot 52% on threes, specifically coming off of off ball screens. The Magic could not create space for Paolo and Franz. That was the problem. The Desmond Bain in Memphis, they so desperately needed him to hit shots because he was their secondary shot creator. It was a little bit too much for him. But in this setting, next to Franz, next to Paulo, it's more important for him to be able to create openings for them. His ability to shoot on the move, shoot out of screens, shoot off the dribble, specifically in the context of Franz and Paolo, you're going to get a. It's a force multiplier rather than a diminishing return. And that really is the key. Like when I'm looking at talent, it's like they could have gone and got Bradley Beal and maybe that's a player that you think is a, a maybe a higher regarded player in the league or something like that. Desmond Baines talent fits perfectly with those guys in a wide open conference and that's a huge, big strong team that should be able to cause a lot of damage with their physicality. And the last thing I'll say about it, Colin Desmond's not the best defender in the world, but he's pretty solid. Jalen Suggs is the best guard defender in the world and so he will never have to guard the best guard on the other team. He's going to be in favorable matchups. He's going to be surrounded by physicality. His skill set perfectly matches what Franz and Paolo do. I think it was a type of swing that could legitimately put them in the finals. And Colin, you're the one who's always preaching this on your show. Yes, it was expensive. So was Kawhi for the Raptors in 2019. At a certain point you got to push your chips in the middle if you want to try to win.
- [20:15]
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And with four core products in their starting lineup, there's something to suit any taste. To find Green river near you, head on over to greenriverwhisky.com here's the green River Whiskey. Raise your spirits. A product of Green River Distilling Company, Owensboro, Kentucky. Alcohol by volume varies by product. Greenriverwhiskey.com, please drink responsibly. I think Orlando looks at it and thinks, listen, The Bain's like 25 or 26 years old. It's like Oklahoma City. You don't have this aged star. You don't have this one gigantic paycheck. It's like everybody's pulling in the same direction. Like, they bring in Hartenstein. He's a starter, but like kind of a role player, but great energy. And everybody welcomes him in. Like, everybody that, like Bane. I was watching the videos today when that, when he got to Orlando, the guys were like, it's just like, he's one of the guys. He's a young guy who, by the way, because he was in Memphis behind John Morant, probably didn't get appreciated a lot or a lot of attention. And Bane was the more mature player, the more consistent player, the more available player and the better shooter. But Ja Morant's great for highlights, so Bane gets overlooked, but not by smart gm. So Bane's probably like, okay, now I get into a more, you know, this is. I mean, Suggs is a Gonzaga guy, Banchero a Duke guy, Wagner's a Michigan guy. Like, these are. These are grownups. They're ready to play. And I thought, I think we Talked about this in the Boston series. It was like two or three times. You and I were like, why the hell is this series so competitive? Like Orlando can't shoot, Boston takes the most. This should, we should have some blowouts. And we didn't. The games were really competitive. We felt that way about the Knicks and the Pistons too. It's like what's God. Cade Cunningham's really graduated to another class. And so I liked it. And I also just aggressive wins. Go get Katie in Golden State. The Lakers, you know, trade for Gasol, trade for Shaq, take big swings, trade for ad, trade absolutely. Porzingis and Drew Holiday. Boston, like you have to take swings in this league because you're not going to be able to bank these stars. You're not going to have the Heels, you're not going to have KD to the Warriors. So what you're going to do is can you get a group of really good B plus, A minus guys that all fit and Orlando fits. Bain literally fits perfectly with a team. Yeah, it'd be better if it was two first, not four. But those are going to be low first round picks anyway, so I can live with it.
- [27:31]
And there's like this, the splitting the difference, two timelines approach comes with its own shortcomings. Like obviously Golden State was very fortunate on the strength of Steph to win in 2022, but they've been paying the price for not cashing in on some of their assets over the course of the of the last few years. I feel like Dallas is kind of staring down the barrel of a similar type of situation. Like you gotta capitalize on the value that AD brings to the table if you want to have sustained success around Cooper Flag. And like I, I just look at it as, I look at it as just an aggressive move that fits perfectly. Desmond Bain has grown a lot too as a passer coming off of screening actions. And I look at that as something like a simple dynamic in the NBA that can cause all sorts of problems is if you can run a two man game where they don't want to switch. And the problem is, is when Franz and Paolo are together, they get guarded by similar players, big strong forwards. And with Jalen Suggs, he never shot the ball well enough for teams to really account for him in those actions. If you as Desmond Bain as one of the best shooters in the league come flying off of a screen with Paolo, you have no choice but to either switch or to show, in which case Paolo will get better matchups, he'll get more smalls to attack, he'll get more openings to attack. I think it's just a really, really smart fit. John Moran, on the other hand, going to be 26 years old at the start of next season. I feel like I want to hear your take on the John Moran at Memphis situation.
- [28:56]
Okay. So I'm, I feel vindicated. So I have. This has been one of my strongest NBA takes forever, which is if you're under 64 in this league and have the ball in your hands a lot, if you cannot shoot John Wall, you know, Westbrook, Derrick Rose, John Morant, you're going to have to drive to the basket against bigger players and you're going to get hurt more often. If you're Steve Nash or Steph Curry and can shoot, it can prolong your career. You can do, you know, you don't have drive, you get a lot of no contact looks. And my take on John Morant was yes, I always said I thought he was a poor man's Derrick Rose. He was about £15 less than Derrick Rose and I understand the NBA media. He's a highlight player. Forget the maturity for a second, which is, I'm never too hard on guys about maturity. I'm much tougher on football players because they're 23 and 24 years old. You bring 22 year old, you bring 18, 19 year old guys into the NBA, okay, they're going to screw up like first couple years, just, just build in. A really bad decision. Now with jaw, it was worse than that. But for me it wasn't the maturity stuff because he's a kid, it was okay. He's wildly, he's wildly entertaining, he's an incredible highlight player, but he's not an effective shooter. And by the way, the last several years it's gotten worse and he's hurt more. So he has aged very quickly. So I've never been a fan of hyper athletic guards that aren't particularly. Now Westbrook was so athletic that he could be a poor shooter and you know, he's bouncing around the league now, but he, there's just not a lot of Westbrooks historically and Westbrook mostly is healthy. He's a sturdy, he has a running back. Jaw's not. I mean what's ja? 180, you know, 178. So he's spindly. So I just, it's not that I wasn't a fan. He was a spectacular talent. But I think everybody in the league thought Zion and JA were going to take it over and it's going to be A, it's going to be Bancaro and SGA and these players. I mean, it's just, it's just interesting how much maturity and hard work matters. You know, J Dub, sga, Hongren, I mean, it's just like really focused, driven, aspirational players. And I think it was just too much, too soon for him and he got banged up. And I think Memphis by the trade is telling you we're going to start over. And it's the right move. They can't compete. We knew it this year. It's the right move by Memphis. I actually like what Memphis did. It's just they won't be very good for a couple years.
- [31:37]
Yeah. You know, we were talking about power earlier and the one example of a guy who succeeded despite a lack of power is Steph. And Steph is both a great shooter and someone who has been consistently available to his team. He's been healthy.
- [31:54]
Yeah. Yeah.
- [31:55]
And the tricky thing with like jaw is going to be 26 years old at the start of next season and he's just straight up not as good as he was three years ago. Like not as good. He's just not, not as good as at basketball. And like this is the age 26, 27 is typically the age when players peak. Like Tatum, best season of his career. Right. At this age. This is the age when everyone seems to kind of figure it out. It's where it's kind of where like the, the meeting point of the mental part of the game and the physical part of the game. And from this point forward it's kind of like a trade off. You get a little smarter, a little more skilled, but you get a little less athletic. This is the peak. Right. And instead like his scoring volume has like in 2022 takes his team to within two wins of the conference finals. He's going head to head with Steph talking shit to him having such a great breakout playoff run. And ever since then, his scoring volume has dropped. Every season since that year, his efficiency has gone down. He just posted his two lowest games played totals of his career in the last two seasons. He's played fewer games in the last two years than he did three years ago combined. Like, it's a, it's been a downward trajectory. And so if you're Memphis and you're looking at it, you just got four unprotected first round picks from Orlando. There still is some young, exciting talent on the roster. Some guys like, like Gigi Jackson, that are interesting. Zach Edie. That's interesting. They have guys in house that they can continue to develop and be fun, but they can bring in a massive trove of draft picks by trading Morant and Bain and just doing a full pivot. Not to mention Jaren Jackson, who I think carries a great deal of value somewhere around the league. And so I look at it as like a. Basically it's a turning point for John Morant. You either got to commit to him or you've got to get off the ship. And the trade is a clear sign that they're going to get off the ship. Not to mention like they, they might look to trade kcp. I wouldn't be surprised if KCP gets moved to a contender at some point in the next season. I think it's just Memphis looking at their situation and going like we're sick of being in this business.
- [33:52]
It's so Jaw is such a cautionary tale. When you look at, at big stars that explode and then, and then fall off and don't eventually rise to the level. It's always kind of a maturity thing. It's almost always that like you just couldn't handle the spotlight. Like Zion couldn't handle his. Wasn't a terribly focused player. Zion, I thought was a tremendously. Just massive torque. There's just nothing like him. I thought JA was spectacular, but I think it's one of the reasons I like Nil is kids are going to stay in college and they're going to be surrounded by non basketball players and they're going to be coached hard and they'll go to class and it's a big, broad life beyond just basketball and a G league. So I think, and I've. I talked about this multiple times. I think Nil's really going to help the NBA and college basketball and you're going to get more guys. The Auburn player who J. Mac loves, Auburn's got a guard that's explosive. He's coming back to Auburn. He could play in the NBA. It'll make him a better NBA player and a great college player. And some of these European guys now are coming over to college basketball. So I think the coaching in college basketball has always been excellent. Sometimes almost too dogmatic. Right. Like it's just so coach oriented. But I look at JA and I think the story of Ja is a little too much too soon and just wasn't quite ready for the stage. I mean there was a moment in time where you thought for about a year, maybe two, you're like, oh, he's going to be the face of the league. I mean that was about three years ago and then it all just unraveled and I don't think we need a face of the league. I thought he for a while looked like it. He just wasn't ready for it. It's. It's a lot to ask and he wasn't ready for it.
- [35:47]
Yeah, you know, what happens in this league, it's success is so short lived because people are coming for you. You know, like Giannis looks like he climbs the mountaintop in 2021. Looks like he's going to launch this new. Nope, here comes Jokic and he's, he's the problem. It's like Jaw looks like he's about to climb the mountaintop in 2022. Shea and Ant have both lapped him since they've kind of reached their, their collective ceilings. And like, I think, you know, I do believe in John Morant. I do. He has a supreme athletic trait in the ability to get downhill. He actually is an underrated shot maker close to the rim in terms of like his floater and like little short stuff. I do think there's somebody that should probably consider taking a bet on him or a chance on him as I look around. You know, we're going to talk about KD here in a second and Katie is. We're going to talk about it in more detail here in a second. But the athletic is reporting that Katie is preferring the spurs, which we'll get to in a minute. But like Houston, if Houston can't get kd, like, would they consider a guy like John Morant? Is there a team out there that has the. That's in a tough position that can afford to take that kind of risk? Maybe a Sacramento, a team that's been kind of stuck in mediocrity. Like, is there a team out there that is willing to take a risk on a guy like him? Because I do think the upside is there, Colin. Like I, I've seen a lot of stuff over the last couple days ranking him at various points in the league and I do think when he's healthy, he's still like right around the 14th or 15th best player in the NBA because no one can keep him in front of. He is an extremely talented player. That's the frustrating part, is that it hasn't come together, but I do think that there's some somebody out there that's going to take a chance on him. But ultimately whether or not it works out is going to be whether or not Jaw actually makes the changes that he needs to. Like, you got to improve like you, you have to develop as a jump shooter to take it easier on your legs. If if he develops as a jump shooter, it will make his downhill drives more dynamic and less frequent, which will help him stay healthier and available to his team. There is a real upside there, he just hasn't been able to capitalize on it.
- [37:56]
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- [42:21]
Colin, what are your thoughts on the report that Kevin Durant prefers the Spurs? I was not a huge fan of this fit. We were talking last week about how Wemby being very thin, KD being very thin, even dear and Fox is. He's a super fast guard, but he's not a power player. Not a lot of power on that roster. Colin, what are your thoughts on KD potentially going to the Spurs?
- [42:42]
Well, I mean to me Wembanyama and Stefan Castle are the, are the team. Like there's nothing against de' Aaron and Vassal, but I, I think those two guys are all stars. One of them all NBA, so. And I think they're just getting better fast. I think I'm always cautious to say Kevin Durant doesn't fit anywhere. I think he fits everywhere. Like my wife always say, always says, like, salt works with everything. Like, my son was a chef, my stepson, it's like, yeah, bacon grease and butter work with everything. That's Kevin Durant. Like, you can just find a spot for a guy who's the best jump shooter at any given juncture in the league. And I also think Kevin, it just kind of figures it out, you know, I don't always like his decision making on teams, but even in Brooklyn, he was the one thing I liked about it. He was the one thing. I mean, in Arizona, in Phoenix, it was Bradley Beal that drove us nuts. Kevin Durant was giving me 26 and 27. I'm not disappointed with him. I've been disappointed with his team selection, but I just kind of feel like he's water. He just kind of floats and finds his level, and I think he'll fit anywhere. And I also think you've got really smart between Chris Paul and de' Aaron Fox. You have had good guiders on that team, like really smart guys. And you can be a really flawed team if you're intelligent. We've talked about the Miami Heat, like, one of the smartest teams in league history. It's like, Allen, LeBron, Wade, Bosch, Battier, Haslam. It's like she's high functioning. They didn't have a center. Chalmers drove everybody crazy. Wade and LeBron kind of had duplicate games. And you're like, like, yeah, they got to four straight finals, like, they just figured shit out, right? And I kind of feel like if you put Wemby and, and, and it's Fox and it's. You'd have to move off. I think Harrison Barnes we talked about before, I think it was the. But I mean, I just think KD would work. I think it would just work. I think it. I think Houston needs him more. But I mean, I think he looks at Houston and thinks, all right, like, like Sengoon. Yeah. Amen Thompson, is he a great offensive player yet? He's more of a athlete, defensive player. I don't know. I think Katie smart and looks at it and just thinks, man, I could have bad shooting nights and we could score one 28 in San Antonio. Like, I think that's how he looks at it. Maybe I'm wrong.
- [45:34]
You know, I want to be clear just because I say it's not my favorite Fit doesn't mean it can't work. Like, I'm a big believer in don't overthink things. Like, don't overthink Kevin Durant next to Victor Wembanyama and Darren Fox. Like, they're going to score a lot of points and they're going to be able to. To get a certain number of stops. There's.
- [45:56]
I.
- [45:57]
There is. You were just talking about with Desmond Bain. There's a reason why Desmond Bain's shooting is so incredibly valuable in the Orlando context on a team that. That not only doesn't have a guy who can make jump shots, but doesn't have a guy who can make jump shots off the move. So it's uniquely super valuable to that team. Kd anchored by the physicality of Houston. I like the kind of like, force, multiplier effect he could have there. That said, even in the context of San Antonio, he's obviously a massive upgrade. He's obviously going to make them way better. There's ob. There's even like some interesting stuff you could look at in the big picture. KD is like probably the best shooting workout guy in the league to. To pair Victor Wembanyama with. He's legendary for the quality of his shooting workouts, him going game speed, him working on shots that are specifically available in NBA games. Off of certain actions. KD is like a legend in his workouts off the floor. Wemby's going to be doing all those workouts with him. You know he is. And it would lead to a certain development in ter in terms of Wemby's big picture health. But it looks to me more like less of a in immediate contender juggernaut and more of like kind of a fun place for KD to end his career where he can go hand in hand in Wemby.
- [47:14]
You know, that's what I think. I think Katie looks at it and thinks this would be fun. Is that it wouldn't be. I wouldn't have to drop 28 points. Would come easy. And I think Katie looks at it and thinks, okay, de' Aaron Fox, you know, Wemby, the structure of the organization, they draft smart players. They don't draft a lot of ego, they don't draft a lot of dummies. I think KD looks at himself and thinks, okay, Houston's got this. There's a lot of stuff in Houston that I'm not sure it's ever going to be great in the playoffs. It's a lot of hyper athleticism and length and running and that's fun. But I think, I don't think at this point he wants to be a mentor, Right? Like, I think he wants to go, I think I'll have some fun and play with really smart players, highly functional players, and I'll put the pressure on me to figure out where I fit. You know, like they don't need him. I think Houston needs him. I think the Knicks could really use him. So I think, you know, I think for KD it is, I think it's perfect. That would be fun. It would be fun for him and I think it would be fun for us.
- [48:21]
It falls in line with the same ideology that led him to Golden State. You know, like, to your point, KD could win a title in Houston, but it would be a chore. And offense would come very difficult. He'd be facing crazy looks. Now the flip side of that is he wouldn't have to be the same statistical monster in Houston that he would be in other situations because Houston's defense is so good. Good that he would just need to basically lift them over the top on the offensive end of the floor. But there is something to be said about basketball is more fun when the ball's moving around and you're playing with more offensive skill. And when you like, like kd, if there's one weakness at this point in his career, he doesn't pressure the rim a ton. Well, dear. And Fox sure as hell does. So like he's going to get to play off of those advantages and play off the ball like there is a I. KD has told us to our faces exactly who he is for years. He loves basketball and he wants to play a fun brand of basketball.
- [49:19]
That's right.
- [49:19]
And so even if we look on it, at it on paper and go, oh, Houston, big, strong, physical team, they can anchor him with defense. IME Udoka is not the best offensive coach in the world. That team doesn't have a lot of offensive talent. It would be, it would be a lot like Oklahoma City in 2016. And I'm thinking he looks at that and goes, I'd rather play fun, free flowing basketball with some more talented offensive players. And so, so with that being the case, I mean, San Antonio is going to be a really interesting team if they pulled something like this off. All of a sudden a guy like Jeremy Sohan becomes super important because he'd have to be such a defensive anchor for them in terms of size and strength. Stefan Castle, obviously defensively as a guard would have to do a lot of that work. Again, I'M not sure that I would view that spurs team as exceptionally dangerous. But what a fun way for Wemby to start his career and what a fun way for KD to end his.
- [50:10]
Well, I think also KD looks at LeBron and thinks LeBron's always figured it out is LeBron doesn't want to do a lot of the dirty work. Like if he went to Houston, Katie'd have to do some of the dirty work. He'd be like, he'd be like Steph in Golden State where it's like, oh, Steph plays poorly. That's the narrative when they lose. It's not Jimmy Butler and Steph in Houston, very quickly he would be because Jalen Green's a hot and cold shooter. And very quickly, if Houston loses, it's like, well, Katie, you know, he had an off shooting night.
- [50:40]
We traded for him. He was supposed to save us from this.
- [50:42]
That's right. And it's just not the case in San Antonio. He'll be part and I do think as players get older they're looking for fit and you know, it's and I'm okay with that. I think as I've aged, I've always liked fit. It's just fun to be part of a group, a mix of young and old. But you don't want to be a mentor. Like I just don't think Katie at this point, I think fun is a really interesting word because Kyrie is fun to play with. That's why he went there. And Golden State no longer because of relationships wasn't. He wasn't having a good time. He was winning. And so yeah, I'm okay with it. He's had an all time career. He's a different cat. But I've, you know, I've come to terms with not everybody's the same. When you want to enjoy life's simpler pleasures, reach for Green river whiskey. Whether it's rye whiskey or single barrel bourbon, you're getting over a century of craftsmanship packed into every bottle. Hop on over to greenriverwhiskey.com and discover a legend in a bottle today. I really do think though, what you're seeing right now in the NBA I really like and I know we don't have a super team, but it's becoming like the NFL. It's a very GM driven league. Like the smart GMs are going to win. A lot of them are in the west and they have been for 30 years. That's why the west is overwhelmingly top to bottom, always deeper than the east, you just have more good owners and more good GMs. And the other thing is, I think we've really seen this. There's a lot of maturity in the league right now, like Indiana and Oklahoma City. I mean, these are grinding outfits. I mean, I think Indiana plays pretty good defense. I mean, again, juxtaposition with OKC juxtaposed to that, well, it doesn't look the same, but there was a. In the second quarter in this game, I was like, God, Indy has given them problems. So I just. I think the league right now, it went through a cycle where it felt kind of. You had old stars and two young guys, like, you know, and you had these Jaws and these Zions. It's like they're just not ready. I just feel like we've got this group of Halliburton and SGA and Jalen Williams and. And it's just, like, really good Tatum, really good young players, totally dedicated to the league, and fewer and fewer old guys are relevant. And I think it's. I don't. It may not get ratings, but I. I'm. I really like OKC and Indiana. Like, I really respect top to bottom, both organizations.
- [53:25]
The point about maturity is. Is a good one, because these two teams are relatively young and young teams. Young, young NBA teams famously don't play defense because young guys in general, it takes time for them to learn how to prioritize how they spend their energy. But, yeah, I. You know, I'm. I'm. I'm generally pretty happy with the trajectory of the NBA. Every era in the NBA has some stars that are a little bit more boring, you know, like, for instance, to meet Shay. Shay's like the guard version of Tim Duncan. He's not the most exciting player in the world for me to watch, but he's incredibly dominant at his position. But we do have must see television. Like, I think Wemby is must see television. I think Anthony Edwards is musty television. There are certain guys in this league that bring the pop, and so we just need to take some time over the next couple of years for the public to kind of ingratiate themselves with these guys. And I'm still a big believer in the NBA. There's stuff they need to clean up. There's certain things that can get better. It's not perfect. I wish they'd shorten the season a little bit, but, like, this has been a fun playoff run. Colin. I. I've really, really enjoyed it. And the Pacers have, like, reinvigorated my love of basketball in a real way just because of the, just a super, super fun brand of basketball that they've played. I, I, I've really, really enjoyed it. But Colin, we really appreciate you giving us your time tonight, man.
- [54:38]
You bet.
- [54:40]
For all of you guys that are hanging out on the YouTube stream, we are headed over to Playback when we're done. So playback TV hoops tonight. We'll take some callers and watch some film. Colin, it was good to see you, buddy. And we'll see you next time.
- [54:49]
All right, Jason, the volume summer is here and you can now get almost anything you need for your sunny days delivered with Uber Eats. Now, what do we mean by almost? Well, you can't get a well groomed lawn delivered, but you can get chicken parm delivered. A nice tan. Sorry, A box fan. Happily, yes. A day of sunshine? No. A box of fine wines. Yes, Uber Eats can definitely get you that. Get almost, almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol in select markets. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details.
- [55:34]
So in the last month, the Midas.
- [55:36]
Touch network beat Rogan, Tucker Carlson, Candace Owens, Charlie Kirk and Ben Shapiro all combined. What happens when three brothers take on right wing media and start winning? I find out on the latest episode of Next Question with me, Katie Couric.
- [55:51]
We just want people to live their lives and be happy and be able to enjoy it without some, you know, lunatic screaming in their face every three seconds.
- [55:59]
Listen to Next Question with me, Katie couric. On the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hear insightful, entertaining discussions on today's important health and wellness topics on the Health discovered podcast from WebM.
- [56:15]
Jason McIntyre
Through in depth conversations with experts, Health.
- [56:17]
Colin Cowherd
Discovered covers everything from tips for healthier.
- [56:19]
Jason McIntyre
Living to the latest on therapy and mental health. My goal is to really destigmatize mental health treatment and looking at it from a whole health perspective, physical health and mental health can be intertwined.
- [56:32]
Colin Cowherd
Listen to WebMD Health discovered on the.
- [56:35]
Jason McIntyre
Iheartradio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [56:38]
Colin Cowherd
This is an iHeart podcast.