The Herd with Colin Cowherd

Episode: Penn State’s Best Isn’t Good Enough, Alabama’s Monumental Win Over Georgia, USC Can’t Play Smash Mouth Football
Date: October 2, 2025
Host: Colin Cowherd
Guests: Josh Pate (and additional co-host/contributors)
Producer: iHeartPodcasts and The Volume

Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the current state of high-profile college football programs—Penn State after their loss to Oregon, Alabama’s pivotal victory over Georgia under new head coach Kalen DeBoer, and the ongoing questions around USC’s inability to play physically dominant football. Colin and college football analyst Josh Pate examine these programs’ trajectories, the impact of coaching, the evolving power dynamics in college football, and how modern phenomena like the transfer portal and NIL have reshaped the sport.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Penn State and James Franklin: The Limits of “Very Good”

[02:54–08:41]

• Colin reflects on James Franklin’s tenure at Penn State, defending him as a “top 7 to 15” coach, but recognizes a growing resignation among the Penn State fanbase after the recent loss to Oregon.
• Josh Pate frames the Oregon defeat as an “inflection point” for Penn State, suggesting the game marked the ceiling of what Franklin’s current methods can achieve.
  • “I think a whole new timeline got started. Now, here's what we cannot know yet. We can't know which flavor of timeline it is...” (Josh Pate, 06:22)
  • Even loyal staff and fans now feel apathetic, not angry: “We know he's never going to be bad enough to fire, but we're also resigned to the fact that this is confirmation we're never going to see the mountaintop.” (Josh Pate, 08:38)
• The conversation pivots to the general archetypes of coaching: the top 1% (Saban, Meyer, Smart, Dabo), versus the next rung down (“eighth runger on a ten-rung ladder”) where Franklin sits.

2. Oregon’s Ascendancy and Dan Lanning’s Future

[08:41–13:19]

• Colin addresses speculation about Dan Lanning leaving Oregon for an SEC job, concluding that Oregon’s resources and Phil Knight’s involvement make them a top-tier, “destination” program.
• Josh Pate notes that, with both elite recruiting and unmatched support, Lanning is incredibly secure: “Dan's not leaving Oregon ... you're talking about a $40 to $50 million buyout. No one's willing to hit that, nor should they.” (Josh Pate, 10:41)
• Oregon is exceptional in transfer portal recruiting and player evaluation: “They are really, really good at eval. ... They’ve got 11 guys they took out of the portal. I think I counted 10 of them are contributing big time.” (Josh Pate, 12:00)
• The conversation lauds Oregon for breaking stereotypes about what kinds of programs can acquire southern-style depth and talent.

3. USC and the Problem of Physicality

[13:19–19:08]

• Discussion of Lincoln Riley’s USC and their struggles to play physical defense and close games.
• Colin points out that even with a strong defensive hire (D'Anton Lynn), USC still gets “pushed around,” raising concerns about whether the up-tempo, spread-offense identity fundamentally undermines defensive toughness.
  • “I watch USC and ... on every big third down, once or twice the quarterback was rushed. And my take is ... is it practice? Is there an element of this up tempo offense that over the course of time, even Lynn’s defense, up tempo, it's getting softer...?” (Colin, 15:00)
• Josh Pate offers measured hope, noting Tennessee as a counterexample—a spread team with a good defense—but admits USC’s physical limitations are evident: “It was so glaring. They got pushed around, they got put on skates ... You can so clearly pick up on the fact that they know what's happening to them.” (Josh Pate, 17:36)
• The philosophical question: Can a portal- and recruiting-fueled infusion of bigger bodies change USC’s trajectory, or is there a deeper systemic issue?

4. Alabama’s Program-Saving Win Over Georgia

[24:11–31:08]

• Colin contextualizes Alabama’s enormous win, under new coach Kalen DeBoer, as possibly the Tide’s “biggest regular season win, including Saban, in like five years.”
  • “This is as big a regular season win, including Saban, in like five years. I thought it was so significant.” (Colin, 25:51)
• Josh Pate says the magnitude can’t be overstated: “I think it's one of the biggest games for the program this decade. That goes back to when Saban was still there. Yes, you cannot overstate the impact.” (Josh Pate, 26:34)
• They discuss the underappreciated difficulty of taking over from Nick Saban, and how DeBoer has adapted to the unique intensity and pressure of the SEC: “...you either adjust and then you thrive in that environment. That’s what I wondered about him… it’s like putting new keys in the ignition. And it’s kind of turned in him.” (Josh Pate, 29:15)
• Reports of laser focus within the program: after the win, “half the locker room’s talking about the Vandy game.” (Josh Pate, 29:55)

5. Transfer Portal, NIL, and the New Parity in College Football

[33:10–39:18]

• The hosts reflect on the transformative impact of the transfer portal and NIL (Name, Image, Likeness) deals.
• Colin notes the unintended benefit: “I think the transfer portal, everybody freaked out about it. I think it’s created a parody and an evenness that I haven’t seen in college football.” (Colin, 34:52)
• Josh Pate agrees but highlights that the best teams not only spend money, but hit on player evaluations: “Money is the oxygen... everyone’s spending. ... But there’s a really, really big evaluation piece to it.” (Josh Pate, 36:18)
  • Programs like Oregon and Miami are proactively retooling entire units via the portal.
  • “You used to have this hopelessness as a fan ... Now it could just be, you wake up one morning and there’s a headline. ... We have an explosive downfield passing game now and we didn’t two days ago. That’s great. Dad. Was that like it was when you were growing up? No, it was not.” (Josh Pate, 38:29)

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Franklin’s ceiling at Penn State:
  "We're also resigned to the fact that this is confirmation we're never going to see the mountaintop."
  —Josh Pate, [08:38]

• On Dan Lanning’s security at Oregon:
  “Dan's not leaving Oregon because at Oregon, it's the only place where you have a deal with the school and you've got a separate deal with Phil Knight, basically ... you're talking about a $40 to $50 million buyout.”
  —Josh Pate, [10:41]

• On USC’s physical limits:
  “They got pushed around, they got put on skates. ... You can so clearly pick up on the fact that they know what's happening to them. They know there's not a whole lot they can do about it.”
  —Josh Pate, [17:36]

• On Kalen DeBoer adapting at Alabama:
  “…you get thrown into the pot and it starts to boil and it either consumes you or you adjust and then you thrive in that environment. ... It's like putting new keys in the ignition. And it's kind of turned in him."
  —Josh Pate, [29:15]

• On how the transfer portal has changed the sport:
  “I can't tell. Oregon from Bama, from Georgia, from Ole Miss, LSU, I can't tell. Three, four years ago, Josh, you could take uniforms off. That's Georgia, that's Alabama, that's Ohio State. ... I think it's created a parity and an evenness that I haven't seen in college football.”
  —Colin, [34:49]

  “…what I've picked up on is everybody knows the transfer portal is a big deal ... but the programs in college football now that have really put a premium on putting good evaluators in those offices are lapping the field.”
  —Josh Pate, [36:18]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Penn State & James Franklin Discussion: [02:54–08:41]
• Oregon’s Trajectory & Why Lanning Stays: [08:41–13:19]
• USC’s Identity Crisis & Defense Issues: [13:19–19:08]
• Alabama’s Big Win and Coaching Transition: [24:11–31:08]
• Transfer Portal, NIL & Modern Parity: [33:10–39:18]

Episode Tone & Language

The episode balances sharp critique with a tone of empathy and deep expertise. Colin and Josh use vivid imagery (“eighth runger on a ten-rung ladder,” “put on skates,” “new keys in the ignition”), candid confession, and direct references to their own backgrounds and experiences in sports media and fandom. The exchanges are conversational yet informative, loaded with insights that blend behind-the-scenes knowledge with big-picture analysis.

Summary

This episode offers an unfiltered look at the shifting terrain of elite college football, where “very good” is no longer enough, where schools like Oregon can build SEC-level power in the modern era, and where the old boundaries between programs are blurred by unprecedented player movement. For fans seeking to understand the undercurrent of dissatisfaction at Penn State, the source of optimism at Alabama, and why USC keeps stalling, Colin Cowherd and Josh Pate provide sharp, clear-eyed answers. The broader lesson: in today’s college football, adaptation—by coaches, programs, and fans—is the difference between falling behind and finding the mountaintop.