← The Herd with Colin Cowherd
The Herd with Colin Cowherd
Colin Cowherd Podcast Prime Cuts - Eagles Manhandle Chiefs In Super Bowl, Luka To The Lakers, Jets DUMP Aaron Rodgers
00:40:24
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- [00:00]
Martin Luther King III
You can count on T Mobile to help keep you connected from big cities to small towns on America's largest 5G network. Switch the T Mobile keep your phone and they'll pay it off up to 800 bucks per line via prepaid card. Learn more@t mobile.com heap and switch up to four lines via virtual prepaid card. Allow 15 days qualifying unlock device credit service port in 90 plus days with device and eligible carrier and timely redemption. Acquired card has no cash access and expires in six months Whether you're ordering wings for the game, whipping up a seven layer dip, or ordering pizza, there's something about football that makes me want to eat. And this football season, Uber Eats has the best deals for me on game day food no matter what I'm craving from two for one pizza to buy one get one Wings. Uber Eats. We'll be dropping new deals each week all season long. I'm in Uber Eats, the official on demand delivery partner of the NFL. Order now for game day. Terms and conditions apply. See Apple for details. Welcome to My Legacy. I'm Martin Luther King III and together with my wife Andrea Waters King, and our dear friends Mark and Craig Kilburger, we explore the personal journeys that shape extraordinary lives.
- [01:17]
Alec Baldwin
Join us for heartfelt conversations with remarkable guests like David Oyelowo, Mel Robbins, Martin Sheen, Dr. Sanjay Gupta and Billy Porter.
- [01:27]
Martin Luther King III
Listen to My legacy on the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts.
- [01:30]
Jason Timf
Wherever you get your podcasts, this is my legacy.
- [01:35]
Martin Luther King III
Hey, it's Alec Baldwin. This past season on my podcast, here's the thing, I spoke with more actors, musicians, policymakers and so many other fascinating people like writer and actor Dan Aykroyd. I love writing more than anything. You're left alone. You know, you do three hours in the morning, you write three hours in the afternoon. Go pick up a kid from school and write at night. And after nine hours you come out with seven pages and then you're moving on. Listen to here's the thing on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [02:12]
Alec Baldwin
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- [02:52]
Martin Luther King III
You can count on T Mobile to help keep you connected from big cities to small towns on America's largest 5G network. Switch the T Mobile keep your phone and they'll pay it off up to 800 bucks per line via prepaid card. Learn more@t mobile.com Keep and switch up to four lines via virtual prepaid card. Allow 15 days qualifying unlock device, credit service port in 90 plus days with device and eligible carrier and timely redemption required card has no cash access and expires in six months. Right now get up to a $15 gift card after rebate when you purchase select Super Start batteries exclusively at O'Reilly Auto Parts. Oh oh oh.
- [03:39]
Colin Cowherd
O'Reilly Auto Parts.
- [03:44]
Martin Luther King III
Welcome to My Legacy. I'm Martin Luther King III and together with my wife, Andrea Waters King and our dear friends Mark and Craig Kilberger, we explore the personal journeys that shape extraordinary lives.
- [03:56]
Alec Baldwin
Each week we'll sit down with inspiring figures like David Oyelo, Mel Robbins, Martin Sheen, Dr. Sanjay Gupta and Billy Porter and their plus one, their ride or die as they share stories never heard before about their remarkable journey.
- [04:12]
Martin Luther King III
Listen to my legacy on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is My Legacy, the volume presented by our friends at Louisiana Hot Sauce. Bring the food at your party to a who new level with the original Louisiana brand hot sauce. I put it on a pizza last night. It was great. Bold, authentic flavor. Embodies the rich culinary tradition of Louisiana. The original Louisiana brand hot sauce. Perfect for those who demand great flavor with just the right amount of heat. I use it on my eggs. I put it on my sandwiches. I put it on my pizzas. I love it. All right, well, between the Luca trade and the Chiefs getting humiliated, I did not have that as a two team parlay. You know, I was thinking about this. Listen, the Chiefs are going to be fine. They got to, they, they knew they were going to probably draft an offensive tackle in the first round and there's plenty of them. But it's interesting. Brady's three Super bowl losses. The point differential was minus 15. He could have literally run the table. Mahomes, it's minus 53 with two Super bowl losses. He'll be three and two in Super Bowls. But I do think I would say this again, Philadelphia, we both said they have the better roster. It's just hard to go against Andy Reid on two weeks and Mahomes, who never loses close games. I did not think it would be this, but I do think, you know, one of the things I was thinking in the first half is that, you know, Brady would always generate something. He was just so good pre snap and it was a little, you know, listen, I, I know Philadelphia's defense is dynamic and you know, we didn't think Kansas City would run much on them. But were you a little disappointed that they couldn't generate six and seven yard throws? They couldn't max protect. It was like they weren't moving off their game plan.
- [06:17]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah, I thought they were overwhelmed at levels in which you just don't see good teams overwhelmed in the line of scrimmage because it wasn't just edge pressures, it was interior pressures. I mean, Mahomes was under siege. They had, I think seven yards after the first quarter, Colin, or excuse me, 19 yards on seven plays. That's because they got a first down in the first play from scrimmage and then they essentially went three and out, three and out. So I just thought the defensive line, remember two years ago when the Eagles were in the super bowl, they led the league in sacks and they had an excellent defensive line. I don't think this defensive line was looked as good as that one because it wasn't productive top to bottom. But the way they played tonight, I mean, that's as well as you can play. And I don't know what you can do when your defensive tackles are doing that, when you're, when your defensive ends are doing that. I mean, the Chiefs do have a guard playing left tackle, right?
- [07:13]
Martin Luther King III
Well, 10 quarterback hits, six sacks, zero blitzes. I mean, think about that. And you know, as I was watching this game with Philadelphia, I kept thinking about this. You know, for years and years, when Peyton Manning was in your division or Brady was, it affected how people in the division drafted. You watch Philadelphia's D and O lines and if you're the Rams or the Lions or San Francisco or Dallas, don't you watch this game and think, Jesus, I'm the Rams, I'm like, you know, corner or defensive tackle in the third round. Like it was so dominating that it makes me think all the rivals of the Eagles have to look at this and think, you know, we've got to get better in the lines or we're not going to compete with this team for years.
- [08:09]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah, I mean, that's to me, Howie and Andy has done this too in the two Super Bowls. They've lost their, their offensive line has just let them down in those games. I mean, the Tampa situation, remember they were missing two tackles and tonight they just got overwhelmed. But it's not just Jalen Carter tonight, right? I mean, Brandon Graham does everything to come back off a. Off a torn shoulder or elbow. Sweat was incredible. Milton Williams has that play destroying. You know, he was a third round pick years ago. Like, he's about to be a free agent. He's going to get a ton of money. And to me, the offensive line for the Eagles, how about the difference when they would go back and forth, the Chiefs would punt and then the Eagles would come back and you'd be like, well, they're just not generating any pressure. Jalen's sitting back there having a hot dog, he's having some gumbo in the backfield. Just who's open, who's not. I'll just scramble.
- [09:00]
Alec Baldwin
Where?
- [09:00]
Colin Cowherd
Mahomes within a second. He's moving around, scrambling left and right. And yeah, I just think the offensive line and defensive line for the Eagles tonight and really all season down the stretch, once they remember they started slow like 2 and 2 and then since then, they were the best team in football. And tonight they dominated. They absolutely dominated this game.
- [09:21]
Martin Luther King III
Yeah, I mean, before tonight, Kansas City had won the last nine playoff games where they did not score first, where they trailed. But in those games, I mean, it was really interesting even early in the game. My first take after the first three drives for each team is, it's one thing if you make mistakes, if you're nervous, I'm like, jesus, Philadelphia is not even adding edge, pressure. They're just putting their four guys out there and they can't block them. As I look over my notes, only three minutes, time of possession in the first quarter. I think we forget we've been spoiled, John. We've had. First of all, it was a great season. The quarterback play has never been better. A lot of people that were watching our podcast right now are in their 20s and 30s. This is what Super Bowls look like in the late 70s and 80s and 1990. I can remember the Giants beating Denver 39, 20, and then San Francisco beating Denver 55, 10. And Denver got beat by Washington 42 to 10. And then the Raiders hammered a couple of teams. You go back to the 80s right now. Google it. If you're listening to us and you're watching at home. This is what Super Bowls looked like. I mean, there was a decade, people always talk about the 70s NBA where there were no great teams. The 80s NFL were very few great Super Bowls. So we were on a run. We've had so many good Kansas City, Buffalo games or Buffalo Baltimore games. We'd just been so lucky in the AFC with Mahomes and Allen and Lamar. But you know, there, there was a run in college football with Alabama. This is what the title games were looking like. The Bama, Notre Dame. This is what Super Bowls look like. So we hadn't had. I mean, I thought the Celtics Mavericks was a lopsided mess, but this was, this is one of those where I think it resonates beyond the game. I think you look at Philadelphia and they're going to have an impact on the draft and free agency. People will feel like in the NFC you cannot compete with this roster for the next two to three years if you just don't get better up front.
- [11:29]
Colin Cowherd
Well, I also think it's pretty rare in, you know, in football, right? The coaches are such stars where in basketball and baseball the executives can be pretty big names. You know, in basketball, GMs are a really big deal. Listen, I've known Brevi for, I don't know, 15 plus years. Rev Vee just stud. And he's well known. I mean, he should be. He's been to five Super Bowls. He won three of them. But Howie is kind of the guy that serves the drink with the Eagles. He is much closer to someone in baseball or basketball where he's the boss. You know, when they needed coordinators, he's going after Vic Fangio. And I'm not trying to take anything away from Sirianni. Clearly the guys, you know, they beat to his drum. Like he gets them going from an inspirational standpoint and he's good with the players, but he doesn't call plays or anything. He's a younger guy. It's pretty rare to see a CEO head coach in his early 40s, but the talent on that team and the off season moves. I mean, Colin, they signed a one year, $4 million Beckton who was fantastic guard. They got Zach Bond immediate all pro and they got Saquon Barkley who had one of the better seasons of the history of the league. So, I mean, it's, it's remarkable. Howie Roseman became a Hall of Famer tonight. He's won two Super Bowls with two different coaches and two different quarterbacks.
- [12:45]
Martin Luther King III
Listen, I don't want to overreact to the game, but in this instance, John, it's hard not to overreact. I mean, it's, I'm watching the Celtics drub the Knicks last night and I'm like This Celtics team has so much depth. I'm not trying to overreact. But when they won the finals last year, you're like, they're like, significantly better than every team in the league. And I watched them last night, and I'm like, I'm not overreact. Boston's going to win it again. They're just better than everybody. And I'm watching Philadelphia here, and I'm like, yeah, this team's not going anywhere. Because it would be one thing if the quarterback was cocky or if they had a bunch of free agents or they didn't draft well. John, seven of their best players are, like, in year one or two.
- [13:27]
Colin Cowherd
Well, think about it. They just won the super bowl in two of the better players in franchise history. Jason Kelsey and Fletcher Cox had retired this year. So, you know what hit me tonight is remember when Fangio and the Miami Dolphins, like, got a divorce, and then Howie hires him 24 hours later, and the Dolphins, he was just too mean. He was too demanding. It's like, guys, this is football and this is defensive football. I got news for you. The guy knows what he's doing. And the one thing we've seen with Vick, with Jim Harbaugh, the one year when they was. He was with the Nagy and the Bears and they traded for Khalil Mack. And then this year with. You give him talent, it is on. Because one thing you and I talked about is, like, his record against Andy Reid. But it's like, well, really, if you siphon those teams out, he did not have good teams in Denver, so nothing of the caliber of talent that he was rolling into the super bowl with. I mean, Colin, the. When you have one good unit, you could have a good defense, right? When all four of you or three of your levels of defense are good, their defensive line is outstanding. The linebackers, they have an all pro linebacker. And Vaughn, who had a pick tonight. And then all their DBs are good. You know, I mean, CJ will hit Cooper, DeJean and Mitchell. The rookie corners are excellent, and Slay is still a solid player. So they're good at every single level of the defense. And they have one of the best defensive coordinators in the league. Like, he's. He can't win it because he's a coach. But if you told me they gave the Super Bowl MVP to Vic Fangio because the game was. It felt like over pretty early on because defensively, the Eagles were. I. I don't remember the 85 bears, but I would imagine they smothered them and it was like, have they even made it past midfield? And then finally Burkhardt's like, they have not crossed midfield yet. And like, didn't feel like it.
- [15:13]
Martin Luther King III
You know, John, one of the, of the many reasons the NFL is king and you and I are both football guys. I do love the NBA playoffs and I love March Madness and I love a good, I love a good golf major and I love the World Cup. And by the way, last year I loved baseball playoffs. Last year I thought they were just fan. Oh, I thought the National League playoffs were insanely good. But one of the reasons that the NFL continues to have such a visceral connection with this is college football. And the Eagles are an advertisement for get the draft right. And this is why you and I are draft guys. And I've told my friends this for years, is you can't buy your way to a championship. All the bad GMs in football overspend in free agency. Where in the NBA if the Lakers get Luca, you're like in a big trade at the trade deadline, you're like, wow, the Eagles are just an advertisement for you start nailing multiple drafts. That's when. That's why you can go get A.J. brown. That's why you can pay Saquon and A.J. brown, because you just keep nailing draft pick after draft pick. Like the Rams are in a spot now. They'll keep Stafford, but they've hit on like six straight defensive draft picks. If they have another good draft, it's like, okay, then you, then you get to the point where you can just go buy elite players.
- [16:36]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah, I mean, I've mentioned this to you and it's, I think it's been well documented is once they missed on Jalen Rager for Justin Jefferson, they had an internal meeting that what are we doing overthinking this? We're going to take the best players from the best program. So when you listed all those players, that was a lot of Alabama and Georgia in that list of players. And it paid dividends. I mean it paid big time dividends because, you know, from Jalen Carter to Devonte Smith to Landon Dickerson to. This year was somewhat unique with Mitchell and Cooper De Jean, but Mitchell is a good example of a guy like Ashton Genti. This year with Boise, he could have got a million dollars and gone to Alabama, Georgia or Ohio State, but he chose to stay at his program. That's why he was, I think Tulane or Toledo, I think it might have been Toledo. And Cooper Gene was Iowa, which is one of the Better defenses in the league, but they're not drafting little school guys anymore. They've been burned. You know, Carson, I think you know, that situation. Then obviously the Jalen Rager over Justin Jefferson at the time was the COVID draft. And remember, the Minnesota Vikings were on the clock next. And they go to the video of Spielman and he's laughing, him and Zimmer because they couldn't believe that they didn't just take Justin Jefferson and that scarred Howie and how he's come back swinging. I mean, to go to two Super Bowls in three years, and let's face it, this was a lot different team than two years ago. Right. Kelsey's gone, Fletcher Cox gone. So they had to kind of, you know, reshape the squad with some impact players. And they did it with, you know, Jurgens and Landon Dickerson inside and Adam Becton. But to me, Jalen Carter, who, you know, tonight's not going to be his greatest performance, but what he's meant to him this year, I mean, that is six all week. He's a dominant, dominant impact player.
- [18:24]
Martin Luther King III
Jordan Schultz and then Jake Laser reported the jets moved off Aaron Rodgers. So for the second time in a couple of years, a team as Aaron flew out to New York thinking positively, optimistically, it would happen, they moved off him. I think the Colts and the Raiders work. I think Chip Kelly, they have two tackles, they have a center, they have two good tight ends. They need a running back and a receiver. I think the Raiders works for Aaron Rodgers. He'd take that over the Colts and Shane Steichen. But, you know, Peyton Manning and Tom Brady, late in their careers leave and have some success. Brett Favre did as well, got to an NFC championship, a throw from the Super Bowl. Are you surprised that it was just two years of nothing and the second team bailed on him? I'm not, but are you.
- [19:15]
Colin Cowherd
You know, this new culture coming in. You know, Aaron Glenn's a former high level player.
- [19:20]
Martin Luther King III
Yes.
- [19:21]
Colin Cowherd
So it's like, do I want to deal with some old, aging, you know, what's the hardest thing to deal with sometimes in pro sports? An aging former superstar, especially one that's a little different. You know, Peyton Manning, that last year, remember Kubiak and Elway had to sit him down and like, it was difficult. He took a pay cut. These are, these are tough conversations, but I think it was pretty clear that the Johnson family was over this guy. About 2 months left to go in the season. I wonder if part of the interviews was like, Aaron's done here, which Most of these new code, who cares? Like, it's not like, okay, fine, I don't need them anyway. I think the question now is, is he even tradable? Because he's on the books for this year. His cash, you know, his cap hits $23 million. I honestly think they'd probably have to cut him. Yeah, I wonder if anyone would even trade for him.
- [20:13]
Martin Luther King III
So it's like, I think they'll, they just cut him.
- [20:15]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah, you cut him and then someone signs them for 10 million bucks. I mean, is he, is that what.
- [20:20]
Martin Luther King III
He'S getting kind of unique?
- [20:23]
Colin Cowherd
Because if you think about it, Roethlisberger's arm gave out on him. It was clear. But he just ends as a Steeler. Manning's arm doesn't work, wins the Super Bowl. But then no one would resign him. Breeze's arm started going and it just ended. Is he really just going to go play? Like, what if the Titans outbid that and they give him 12 million? The Raiders are only willing to give him. So he's going to finish his career on the Titans? Because I do think it wouldn't just be those two. I think a lot of teams would be interested just to try to get their franchise. You know, these owners give them a little oomph. If you got some cap space, I'll give Aaron Rodgers 15 million.
- [20:57]
Martin Luther King III
Think about this.
- [20:57]
Colin Cowherd
If you're the Titans, why wouldn't you pay him?
- [20:59]
Martin Luther King III
Yeah, he has a house in Nashville. I mean, let's say, listen, we'll give you two years, got a house in Nashville, it's an easy division. And then you have that number one pick you could trade down, get a bunch of players around him. It's just interesting. I was told that Aaron Glenn, for the people that didn't hear my Pre Super Bowl 15 minute rant, I was told by somebody I trust that Aaron Glenn, coming from a really strong culture in Detroit, wants to mimic that. Right. Duplicate that in New York. And he didn't want Aaron Rodgers the player or the person in the room. And they'll, they'll say all the right stuff. But in the end, I mean, Green Bay caught him off guard. The jets kind of caught him off guard. Aaron has that disease of has to be the smartest guy in the room. I'm going to do my own homework on the Internet. And you know, I think in the end he, Aaron, I mean, I, I, I, I could write chapters in a book on things I've heard from people that have been around him. He's really moody guy. You can get Good Aaron or bad Aaron, but in the end, he's just not good enough. Now he's probably the 15th best quarterback in the league. He's just not good enough for the BS you deal with. Like, he's not early to the locker room. He's not optimistic. Like Brady to the end, I mean, was just like high energy, high optimism, high standards. I'm not sure Aaron loves the game. I think, you know how you ever work with somebody or you have somebody in your family and they're like, I work hard. And you're like, dude, hard work is 65 hours a week, not 42. I think Aaron says he loves the game. I don't see it. I don't see that. Just unbridled, like, just relentless passion for it. I think Aaron thinks he loves the game, but he doesn't love it. He doesn't love it the way the guys that I see it in pro sports love it.
- [22:51]
Colin Cowherd
I think it'll be very telling that when they cut him, if he's only getting 7, 8, $10 million offer, he doesn't need the money.
- [23:00]
Jason Timf
Right.
- [23:01]
Colin Cowherd
He's worth hundreds of millions of dollars at this point in time. It was clear he did not want to get hit last year. Don't blame him. He's 40 years old.
- [23:08]
Martin Luther King III
Right.
- [23:09]
Colin Cowherd
So is he going to go play for some of these teams? You know, Pete Carroll calls, the Titans call, like, yeah, this, this might not go well again. Right. The one thing Aaron Rodgers has a good feel for the, you know, the most of his career is what a good team looks like. So this could be really like, you go sign up for one of these teams. Best case scenario might be like seven wins and you, you know, struggled to stay hurt last year on a roster that's going to be better, more than likely than one of these teams interested in you. So I wonder if he gets to the point where it's like, am I really going to do one year for eight, nine, $10 million?
- [23:43]
Martin Luther King III
Yeah, I don't think he will.
- [23:45]
Colin Cowherd
The jets this year, we're paying him $35 million. If someone was willing to pay him that, I think he would for sure play.
- [23:50]
Martin Luther King III
Sure, sure.
- [23:51]
Colin Cowherd
But I have a hard time if you're $10 million and it's like his best options, the Titans, him just going, I'm just going to go hang out in Malibu and just kick it.
- [24:02]
Martin Luther King III
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- [27:01]
Jason Timf
No, absolutely. I mean, I hated this Laker team at the start of the year. They had this personality, this, like, I don't care about the work that was driving me crazy. But over the course of the last, like, month, they've been playing a really likable and fun brand of basketball. LeBron was playing super well. Austin was playing super well before AD Got hurt. He had a couple of monster games.
- [27:21]
Martin Luther King III
Oh, he was great.
- [27:22]
Jason Timf
Played really well.
- [27:23]
Martin Luther King III
20 a night.
- [27:23]
Jason Timf
Yeah. But I felt like they weren't good enough on either end of the floor to really do what you need to do to win four playoff rounds. And I've been really keyed in on this concept lately. Like, if you're going to win the title, you have to be able to do something well enough that it really gives people problems. Like where teams can't even match up with it for one reason or another. And the Lakers just didn't have that punch on either end of the floor. Even with LeBron and AD it's not the defensive team it was back in 2020, right? Yeah, so. So they didn't have that punch with Luka. One of the unique things he does, this Laker team has a lot of guys who are good offensive players as long as they're set up well. Even with LeBron and Austin, like, one of the reasons why they struggled against defenses that did a lot of switching all year long is LeBron's 40, and it's hard to get him to just get downhill time and time again in a random regular season game in January or December or Austin not an elite athlete in terms of getting past top tier NBA talent. And Anthony Davis obviously has offensive limitations, but once you bring Luka in, he just has this magical ability to get the ball to the basket. He's so big and he's so strong and he's so good at change of pace, and he's so good at getting guys sealed on his shoulder, sealed on his backside. He can get downhill. And now he's spraying out to all these guys. And they're actually all really good offensive players when they have an advantage. Yeah, like Rui shoots 53% on unguarded catch and shoot threes, but you need to get him unguarded catch and shoot threes. Luka can do that. And one of the biggest things that it's allowed is it's allowed LeBron James, like, have you ever watched a guy say, like, oh, LeBron should drive to the basket every time? Yeah, it sounds great, but it's really exhausting to do that, especially at his age. Now, LeBron, when he gets his touches, can be super physically aggressive because he knows he has Luca to carry the lion's share of the offensive load. And so now when I look at this situation, yeah, they have defensive question marks, and we can get into that here in a minute, but I try not to overthink it. This team is going to be basically impossible to guard. And so they have a. They have a unit now, their offense that presents legitimate problems for every single team in the league. That is a. That is a foundation you can build on.
- [29:34]
Martin Luther King III
Yeah. And remember Dallas won the west last year, and their two best players are below average, suboptimal defensive players, Kyrie and Luka. Is that. Let's be honest about the West. Denver has Jokic, but they're atrocious defensively. Houston's young, can't shoot, and I don't think they translate to a playoff team. I think they're just one of those teams. They are so young and twitchy and athletic. In the regular season, if you're not well rested, if you don't have a lot of tape time, they're a tough matchup. If I get to play them seven times, they can't shoot.
- [30:07]
Jason Timf
There's a team like that every year. Every year there's that team.
- [30:10]
Martin Luther King III
Yeah. So all of a sudden, Denver can't defend. Houston can't shoot. Oklahoma City. I don't trust Chet Holmgren's health. I think they're the best team. Golden State doesn't have enough offensive firepower. Very Steph Reliant, even with Jimmy Butler. Memphis is. Memphis plays with a lot of pace and they're a lot of fun to watch. I don't trust them. You know, said this before, they're just teams like Philadelphia in the playoffs, I don't trust them. Memphis in the playoffs, I don't trust them. I know Jaren Jackson, I know John Moran. I get it. So if you look at the West, OKC is clearly the best team. They have the most kind of diversity of options. They have so many different players, and they're really good and really young. They're what I think Utah wants to be in about three years with all those draft picks. But the Lakers are an exceptional offensive team. And if you're giving me. It's also a team. LeBron clearly likes Austin Reeves. He likes to play with him. It's obvious. LeBron's like. He's like a 15 year old with a crush on Luca. The way he plays, the energy. And I just think they're so good offensively that there's nobody that's complete enough in the west to roll them. Boston would, but Boston's got, you know, Boston's been playing these guys. You know, I watched them the other night against New York. Jesus, they're good. God, they're good. So I. My take is, if you put them in the East, I don't think they can. I don't think they can beat Boston. I think they're a Western Conference finals team. And I'm not trying to be an LA homer.
- [31:44]
Jason Timf
Yeah, I'm with you. Every team below. To me, okc, Denver and the Lakers are the clear top three in the West. And Denver, and like you were talking earlier about the young, feisty, athletic team. Memphis used to be that team.
- [31:57]
Martin Luther King III
That's right.
- [31:58]
Jason Timf
Houston's that team now. There's always a team like that. And that team always wins a lot of regular season games and then loses in the first two rounds. It's just.
- [32:04]
Martin Luther King III
Right.
- [32:04]
Jason Timf
That's what happens. And let's just put it this way. Who are you picking in a playoff series? Fred Van Vliet and Jalen Green or one of these duos from the top of the. Of the conference? Right. So, like, I'm with you on that. To me, Denver and the Lakers are both closer to OKC than people realize, just because OKC is also super young and athletic and has a ton of energy for the regular season.
- [32:25]
Martin Luther King III
The.
- [32:25]
Jason Timf
The question marks that you talked about in terms of the Lakers with the defense, that's where it gets interesting because the Lakers were playing some pretty damn good basketball before Luca joined the squad there. In their last 13 games, they have the best record in the league, and they have the number one defense in the league. The Lakers do the number one defense for about a month now. Now, there's a reason for that. Jared Vanderbilt is healthy. He is an excellent defensive player. And you turn D'Angelo Russell, a bad defensive player, into Dorian Finney Smith, who's a good defensive player. And then a huge part of that is part of that excitement from LeBron has manifested and he's playing a lot of defense this year and he's been very good on that end of the floor. But if you take, if you take a player out of that lineup and you insert Luca, you're not going to be as good defensively. That's, that's just acknowledging reality. So when Luke is in this picture full time, you're not going to be as good defensively as you've been in the last month. But we've seen an NBA history like with Denver. Denver in 2023. They were not an elite defense. No, but they had bad defenders on the court who did a job and did it well.
- [33:28]
Martin Luther King III
That's right.
- [33:28]
Jason Timf
And they were. And they were anchored by good defenders. Kentavius Caldwell, Pope, Aaron Gordon, Bruce Brown. They had guys who did compete on defense. They did the hard jobs and then they created easier jobs. That's the thing. You can imagine a scenario where you've got Luca, LeBron, Austin, but you have Dorian, Finney, Smith and Vando out there. This is going to be a small ball team. Colin, Alex Len hasn't played a thousand minutes since 2019. LeBron's played 1600 just this year. Like Alex Len, he's not going to, he's not going to come in there and save, save the season. So this is a small ball team, but you can imagine a universe where LeBron's playing defense. You've got two professional defenders in the lineup, and what if they just score every time or get a great shot every single time?
- [34:10]
Martin Luther King III
A team that I think, and I don't know historically, if this happens, I'll tell you the team in the west that I would not want to play, and right now they're not even a playing team. Keep your eye on San Antonio. Okay? Stefan castle out of UConn is no fun to defend. That guy is. This time next year we're going to have different conversations. De'Aaron Fox, I think because he plays in Sacramento, you don't realize it. He's a 25 point a night scorer with a high IQ. He's so good, we just don't watch him. Stefan Castle, Wemby, De'Aaron Fox, you know, guys, guys that get lost. But I don't know his epa. Yeah, I don't know what all the numbers are, but like Harrison Barnes, you know, it's this guy that Harrison's one of those players that like Shane Battier, you're like, yeah, I think he's really good and he ends up making your team better. But nobody wants to talk about it. I think San Antonio, if you told me they went on like right now, they're not a playing team. I think they're going to go in. Popovich is going to steal a game in a series. Houston's the team we all think is going to be dangerous. I don't San Antonio, the team nobody's paying attention to. I mean, can you imagine Lakers end up, you know, Denver ends up playing them and Wemby neutralizes Jokic to some degree and castles a pain and gets the whistle. I mean, listen, Denver, you can score on Denver. Like they're just not good. They're not effective at all. So I think, I think the west is really fun. I thought the NBA had a tremendous 14 day period. I thought Jimmy Butler. You know what's funny about this, Jason, is that I know the analytic people think Wiggins may be a better fit with Steph than Jimmy Butler. I read an article on that. But my take is Jimmy Butler's the anti Wiggins. He's tough, he's a badass, he's physical, he's ornery and he's a really good number two. It's like in baseball, it's when you try to make a 201, your pitching staff's not good. Jimmy's an excellent two behind Steph and he's the opposite of Steph. He's tough physically. He's a mid range guy. He'll defend you. I don't think Golden State's a championship team, but I just thought between Luca, between De'Aaron Fox to San Antonio, between Jimmy Butler, the Warriors, I just thought the west got really. And we've talked about this. The west has been better than the east force 25 years. A lot of it's just better GMs and I thought the west had a great 14 days.
- [36:47]
Jason Timf
Yeah, they completely flipped the conference over in a bunch of different ways. I liked what you said about San Antonio. Like we were talking earlier about like having a problem that other teams can't solve. Victor's a problem around the rim that other teams can't solve. And then the Deer and Fox as a two man game partner with Wemby is a problem that teams can't solve. The Jimmy Butler thing, it was amazing to me how many people overthought this. And when I was watching the Bucks game last night and I saw Jimmy Butler constantly operating in the middle of the floor as kind of like a hub out of the attention that Steph would gather. It reminded me of when we'd watched the warriors back in their heyday where it's like everyone talks about shooting. But when it comes to the warriors with Steph, you. You don't actually want shooting as much as you want playmaking. Because what happens is Steph gets two to the ball. As soon as Steph gets two to the ball, it's a four on three. And it becomes more about quick processing and decision making and guys being in the right spots to get dunks and maybe a wide open corner three for a certain player out of that sequence to pay it off than it is about, like with LeBron or a rim pressuring guy where you want spacing, you want shooting that pulls guys further away from the room. Steph inverts your spacing in that way. And it actually reminded me a lot of Andre Guadala. Remember when Andre Guadala was there, he was never a great shooter, but he constantly greased the wheels for them because he was a rangy forward who could screen and operate in the middle of the floor, make quick decisions, knew when to cut, knew when to relocate, do all those sorts of things. There was a play in the Bucks game last night where Steph took a ball screen from Jimmy. Steph got two, he dropped it to Jimmy, and Jimmy made a little ball fake to Buddy, healed, and then dropped it off to Draymond Green for an easy layup underneath the basket. And I literally just watched this and I'm like, this works. This just works. You weren't comfortable with Wiggins as a processor in the middle of the floor. You are comfortable with Jimmy. Simple stat. How many times has Jimmy or how many times has Andrew Wiggins had seven plus assists in a basketball game in his NBA career? 14. How many times did Jimmy have seven plus assists last year with the Heat? 15. So, like, it's an entirely different stratosphere of playmaking talent that you plugged in there. You had a. You have a guy that can quickly process those situations. And they've been killing teams. Colin, so far, obviously. Small sample. They've been really good with Jimmy on the floor, with Steph off, which is all that really matters.
- [39:06]
Martin Luther King III
That's the key. I mean, when I watched them two weeks ago, when Steph left the floor, not only were they inefficient, they were unwatchable. They were. They were a bad tell. I said this. Make the move to be a better TV product. You're terrible.
- [39:21]
Jason Timf
Well, and like Pat Spencer, like the lacrosse story, it's really cool. He probably shouldn't be your, like, secondary ball handler in a Thursday night national TV game against the Lakers. When steps off the floor like that. That's an issue. But I'm with you. Like, I don't see the warriors necessarily as a substantial threat. To me, what's cool about it is we get to watch Steph play meaningful basketball again. Because I do think they're going to get out of the play in tournament. I do think they're going to end up getting at least a first round series and that team's just going to be fun to watch.
- [39:47]
Martin Luther King III
I think the NBA has always been better when the Knicks are relevant. And between Mikhail Bridges, Jalen Brunson, Cat, Josh Hart, og, It's a really good basketball team, but they do not match up with the Celtics. And this is where you're really good. I mean, I've watched them play the Celtics twice and that shit's not competitive. Like, it's, it does not work now. It's, it's almost like the Celtics have circumvented the NBA cba. The NBA cba. They don't want you to have like five really good players. And it's almost like the Celtics figured out a way to be the last team that can have a roster that you, you're not supposed to have any more, where Derrick White's your fifth best guy some night and now they're trying.
- [40:31]
Jason Timf
To sell the team so someone else has to pay for it. Yeah, yeah.
- [40:33]
Martin Luther King III
Like, it's like they're almost circumventing the new cba. Like, this is not really fair and you can tell. So I think New York's a really good basketball team and I, and I think I trust them in the playoffs. I think they're smart. I think they've got, you know, it's well chronicled. They're kind of got a Villanova feel. They play hard, they're smart. I think they're one of those teams that'll be a better playoff team than a regular season team and they're a good regular season team. There are teams like Houston, I think are a better regular season team than a playoff team. The Knicks are going to be fine. But I watched them now twice play Boston and I want you to break it down because they don't match up. And this is a good team. Let's just be honest about this. They got five to six guys in that rotation. The Knicks can match up with almost every team in the league. Why is Boston. And you can tell Boston, like, when they played this past week, they, that's a national TV game. They're like, okay, all right, guys. I mean, that thing was, I mean it four minutes in you're like, yeah, yeah, Boston came to play. Boston's not effing around. Why doesn't New? Because I think New York has enough different players, and they play hard enough and they're really smart and they're well coached. They kind of match up with everybody. They do not match up with Boston. Like, what is it?
- [41:49]
Jason Timf
So there. There are two kind of prevailing theories in NBA offense right now, which is like, matchup hunting versus, like, running motion. And the motion is like, what you see with the Warriors. There's tons of screens. Guys are running in circles all over the floor. Boston's like, where's your weakest defender? Let's get him up here. Let's play some basketball. And, like, that's literally all they do. And when I watch that game, the way they surgically attacked Jalen Brunson and Carl Anthony Towns every single time down the floor, they'd get them both in. They'd bring the ball up the floor. They'd have Jalen Brunson's man come screen for Tatum. Okay, now Jalen Brunson's on Tatum. Okay, now we're going to get Cat into the action. So now it's like Tatum and in one of his teammates attacking Katt and Brunson in the same action, and there's just nothing they can do about it. The Knicks are really, really good. They can score whenever they want. They get out and transition like crazy. They've got all of these good players that are super bought into their fun.
- [42:40]
Martin Luther King III
To watch, fun to watch.
- [42:42]
Jason Timf
They're super fun to watch, and they have beat the shit out of some good teams this year.
- [42:46]
Martin Luther King III
Yep.
- [42:47]
Jason Timf
But every time I've watched him against Boston, it's the exact same issue. We are going to get Carl Anthony Towns in space and make him guard and just get right past him and then spray out and get great shots and beat you. It's actually kind of funny, Colin, because you can tell that they really want to beat the Knicks because the Celtics have played some pretty bad basketball in the middle of the season where they're not deliberate and where they do take bad shots and they settle and they don't do the things they need to do. They see the Knicks and they, like, snap back to the playoffs last year, and they just get surgical in the way that they pick on those guys. But it really just comes down to they go at New York's worst defenders every single time, and then they. They play driving kick out of it to get great shots, and that really is the issue. And then Jalen Brunson, he just has this wall of athletic, bigger defender every single possession. As it goes down to the other end, it's like, here's Jaylen Brown, here's Drew Holiday, here's Derek White. He's just, it's such a difficult job for him to consistently break down that Boston defense because they just have so many different defenders they can put on him.
- [43:47]
Martin Luther King III
Yeah, it's interesting to say that because I really like the dexterity of the Knicks. I think they're a matchup problem. Carl Anthony Towns is offensively gifted. He's shooting threes like right now like the best he's ever. I mean he's really shooting the ball well. He's quirky. I've seen him play live four times and there will be halves. You're like, is he a top 10 player in the league? Like, he can destroy people, he can embarrass people. And then in the second half you'll be like, did he take a sleep aid? Did he have a thera flu at half? Like what happened? But it is interesting. You break it and I'm so glad for our audience listening. Jason is so good at this and that's why I just foisted it up to him is when I've watched them play twice the Celtics and it shit is not competitive. They just do not match up at all. The volume.
- [44:44]
Alec Baldwin
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- [45:46]
Martin Luther King III
Welcome to my legacy. I'm Martin Luther King III and together with my wife Andrea Waters King and our dear friends Mark and Craig Kilberg we explore the personal journeys that shape extraordinary lives.
- [45:58]
Alec Baldwin
Join us for heartfelt conversations with remarkable guests like David Oyelowo, Mel Robbins, Martin Sheen, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, and Billy Porter.
- [46:07]
Martin Luther King III
Listen to my legacy on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [46:12]
Jason Timf
This is my legacy.
- [46:16]
Martin Luther King III
Hey, it's Alec Baldwin. This past season on my podcast, here's the thing, I spoke with more actors, musicians, policymakers, and so many other fascinating people like writer and actor Dan Aykroyd. I love writing more than anything. You're left alone, you know, you do three hours in the morning, you write three hours in the afternoon. Go pick up a kid from school and write at night. And after nine hours, you come out with seven pages and then you're moving on. Listen to here's the thing on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.