← The Herd with Colin Cowherd
The Herd with Colin Cowherd
Colin Cowherd Podcast Prime Cuts - Is Luka A Liability? Shedeur’s Draft Slide, Westbrook Gives The Nuggets “Juice”
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The Volume Blending Vice's signature dynamic storytelling with the high octane world of sports, Vice Sports brings an exciting and diverse range of programming that goes beyond the game. From action packed live events to gripp behind the scenes documentaries to hard hitting investigative pieces and in depth Profiles of athletes, coaches, teams. Vice Sports captures the raw energy, drama and passion that makes sports truly unforgettable. Catch live events and other exclusive sports programs only on Vice TV. Go to vice tv.com to find your cable channel. All right, John, Obviously, the story of the draft was Sanders. It just dominated. Mel Kuiper lost his mind. So I want to, I want to throw, I want to start with this and, you know, this. So basically, I would have drafted Shador Sanders if I was the Pittsburgh Steelers. So I don't think they needed a defensive lineman as much as they needed in a division with Joe Burrow and Lamar Jackson. In the conference with Josh Allen, Justin Herbert and Patrick Mahomes and C.J. stroud, they don't have a quarterback room of note. I think Will Howard's a backup in the NFL. So congratulations on getting another defensive lineman. But I would have drafted Shador Sanders. That said, once he started falling in the draft, I started making calls. I went on the Internet and it was very interesting. So two general managers who I hold in sort of my, like, circle of trust and I think are really as good as general managing gets in this league. Not Howie Roseman, but there's another eight guys or so that I really like. You know, a couple of them had said to my friend Steve Keim could. Steve Keim had asked because he had Jalen Milroe as a client for Clutch Sports. And he had asked a couple of GM friends, hey, about a month ago, what do you make of Shadour Sanders? And both said, you know, his tape isn't great. Like, you know, there's a lot of stuff you don't like on his tape and he's not a great athlete. But that said, I still think he's accurate enough to be a, you know, in a bad quarterback draft class to, to not fall to where he fell. But I'm going to start with this, which I talked about on my own YouTube pod this weekend, is that when a guy does fall and you're seeking answers for it, you start going back and examining things. And things also start to surface after the first round. Stories start to surface that were not talked about pre first round. Clearly, the interviews were worse than. It wasn't just a story that bothered people, it was true. And there were more than one instance of a bad interview. But I had said this too, is that once you didn't see Shadour Sanders as a starter because of the smoke and noise around him. With Deion basically his dad at super bowl week saying, we're going to control this. There are certain teams we're not going to play for. Travis is going to go one, my son's going to go three. That I did wonder, John, like the Tebow or Cam Newton effect, if he's not the starter, do you want the Dion Noise as a backup for a year? Do you think that is what teams thought about once you got to the second round? Is okay. Now he's a backup and I'm not sure teams love that Tebow level noise. Celebrity quarterback backup stuff.
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Advertiser 5
Yeah, I mean, obviously, like you, I did a lot of digging these last couple days because I, I liked him as a player and I just assumed he'd go somewhere between like 10 and 45. Yeah. Maybe in the first round, maybe in the second round. So when he precipitous fall to the fifth round, you get to start texting around. And you've said this for a long time, quarterbacks are held to an unfair standard. It's also why they make $50 million a year.
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Advertiser 3
That's right.
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Advertiser 5
You know, I mean, it's also why I would say they are now viewed as the biggest celebrity in sports. Right up there with like, I mean a level of like LeBron and Steph Curry immediately.
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Advertiser 2
Yes.
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Advertiser 5
So I would say from what I've heard, he had one of the worst off seasons that these teams have ever seen from, from a quarterback prospect. And that could be from a first rounder to a seventh rounder.
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Advertiser 3
Right, Right.
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Advertiser 5
Because they're all, they all act. You are a product of your class. Right. So if I want, if I'm a good looking girl and I walk into a bar and there are 10 supermodels, I'm not going to be viewed as highly as if I walk into a room with a bunch of ugly people. And in this class, it was a bunch of high level cats. Cam Ward. I know people with the Titans, they loved them.
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Advertiser 3
Yeah.
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Advertiser 5
Drew Brees said this a long time ago. Playing quarterback is like 70, 30 intangible off the field, upstairs 30. My physical qualities. Peyton Manning couldn't beat me or you in a race. He didn't have a big arm. Tom Brady. I couldn't play any other position in high school football beside quarterback. So this class from Jalen Milroe, people love the guy. Dylan Gabriel, he had to be one of the favorites when it came to the coaching staffs, obviously the Will Howard's, the Riley Leonard's, these guys are the most impressive people of the entire draft. When these coaches and these GMs are meeting with them, they leave the Room. And these coaches go, God, I wish, I wish Riley Leonard and Will Howard were better players. They get drafted in the fifth, sixth, seventh round. Most people think, yeah, he's probably not going to be in the NFL long. But we love the guy. And she doors off the field is not bad. Never been in trouble or anything. But when you act, there are only so many teams, right? Supply, demand thing. Well, six teams last year drafted quarterbacks in the top six. They're immediately out. There are several quarterbacks on rookie contracts. They're not going to be in the mix. And then the veteran teams, Andy Reid, the Bills, the Ravens, they're just consumed with trying to win the super bowl right now. So it's a small, small group. Yeah, right. So the small group, well, those were the people he met with and clearly turned them off. And McShay has been coming out with this report what happened with the Giants of like, I don't need you. That never happens. And I think it's become popular because if you look at these comments online, it's like, go against the establishment, go against the man. It's like, guys, this is a business that if you're decent, you will make $40 million a year. Find me another industry that pays that level. And if you're like, Cam Ward, who was viewed as a round pick, comes back, does all the right things, plays well. People love the guy. He's a first round pick. He's going to get $40 million guaranteed. So if he, if he stinks, if he's terrible. Trey Lance, a good example. People love the guy, couldn't play, but he, he made $40 million, you know, so this to carry yourself. Listen, we all look up to our parents, right? Or whoever raises us. And he looks up to his dad. His dad is one of the greatest players of all time, right? And his dad can act however he wants. Just like great players can always act however they want because he, in a, in a business like pro sports, they're going to. There's only so many of them. His son was not that. And I think that really turned people off. The other thing that really bothers me is this narrative of like, this is the NFL pushing back against nil. It's like, guys, Cam Ward just made like $3 million playing at Miami. The NFL, every GM is a millionaire. Every assistant coach now is probably a millionaire. And obviously the head coaches are all making 10 to 15. They don't care at all. Travis Hunter, I googled his nil deal. I mean, it was reported between 4 and 5 million dollars. It's about being a good person. I mean, all these kids in college, the entire first and second round, they were driving Range Rovers and G wagons last year in college. It's not about the money or the Nils. Just like one, there were a lot of red flags. Guys that were drafted well above Shador Sanders. Those guys were viewed as good players. Now, I think Shador is a solid prospect.
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Advertiser 3
So do I. But.
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Advertiser 5
But what I've heard about the way he's act like he would be an immediate turn off to any human being. Right. In any industry. That's not how young people act. And I think they tried to change their tactics from what I've heard the last like months, but it was too late. It's hard to pivot. And again, you're just compared, like they view you in a group with Jalen Milroe and Dylan Gabriel and so that's who you're compared to. You're not compared to Cam Ward. He has nothing in common with you. But he already. People like him on and off the field. So the group you're compared to, it's like, well, we love the people. What's up with this guy? Anytime it's like, what's up with this guy? And you play quarterback. Yeah, that's a problem.
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Advertiser 3
Yeah. So I talked to an NFL general manager yesterday. And, and he said, he said, Colin, he said, the conversation. We talk about players in this league. The conversation with quarterbacks is a separate conversation. We talk about, we talk about quarterbacks like I would as a gm, talk about coaching prospects. I'm talking about your temperament, your leadership. One of this gm, When I hire coaches, very rarely will you get Andy Reid or Kyle Shanahan scheme excellence. You're hiring CEOs. McVeigh is a CEO. Dan Campbell's not a scheme genius. He's a CEO. And he said, that's what you're. So he goes, that's what a quarterback is. He's your CEO on the field. So temperament, maturity, the guys rally around him. So the interview, how do you hire Sean McVay and not let him out of the building? It's not his resume, it's his interview. And so I do think. And this stuff, you know, obviously Brian Dabel, the Giants is going to say no, the interview was great because Brian Dabel has to go back on that Colorado campus over the next four or five years or next 10 years. So you'll never hear a coach bang on a university or a coach because that coach is going to have four to five NFL players the next year. So you just swallow it and go.
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Advertiser 2
Yeah, it was a great interview.
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Advertiser 3
But I, I think there's more than enough smoke here that that process wasn't great. And I, you know, I'll say it again, I do not like. And again, I did not think this would be an issue, but I was forced to talk about it. Once he's dropping out of the first, the second, the third, the fourth, then I'm forced to talk about it. And my take was, well, if you're really making me pick, what's a problem? I do think Deion during Super bowl week, exclaiming, this is on our terms. It wasn't until mid to late March that Deion went, okay, he can go anywhere. And I think it pissed people off. I know, I know one team that was totally turned off. And remember, you go into a draft, John, as you noted earlier, there's usually like, for instance, the Rams. The Rams decided before this draft they were going after a quarterback next year, that the Rams made a decision in house. We probably need to get one in house, but we're going to go for it next year. That's why they made that trade with Atlanta, to get two first next year because their first will be deep. So they're looking for a top 12 to 15 first. And if they have to use both to get like the second pick because you're going to have Drew Aller, Clemson's quarterback, Arch Manning. So if they want to get up to like third or fourth in the draft, they need a second one. So the Rams, there's about seven teams a year that need a quarterback either as a starter or a backup. And the Rams immediately decided with their trade, we're getting ours next year.
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Advertiser 5
I think if you just looked at all the starters in the league that teams are either obviously elated to have or feel good about, I don't think you would find one that isn't basically an A plus off the field. And I think the one guy who's clearly mature, I don't know if Kyler Murray would fall under A plus, but he's clearly matured. I mean, now living in Arizona, seeing the comments from him and from a talent standpoint, I mean, you're older than me. He's got to be one of the most unique talents in the history of pro sports. I mean, he's one of the great blue chip, physical attribute talents in any sport ever. We won't see a guy again get drafted in the top 10. And number one overcourt, he's five, nine. So it's like, yeah, it was a learning curve. And his maturity, he's matured. Some guys mature slower. We've seen Baker and some of these guys, but for the most part, they are a plus. Everything in terms of leadership, intangibles, work ethic, people just like being around. There's no question. It never comes up. The last unit in the building I want to think ever about is my overall quarterback unit. Not even just my starter, just the group. I know I'm going to have a couple of D line issues, maybe a wide receiver, the quarterback issue. It's the last thing on my mind beside, like, an injury or something that I have to make, like, a tangible transaction for. And he. He basically handed him, like, they started seeing what they see in other positions, and they're like, this is insane. And this notion that, like, the collusion and stuff, it's just. It was honestly kind of embarrassing by a lot of people around the NFL. I think, you know, former players and stuff, I think it was bad luck by a lot of people that have no fucking clue what they're talking about.
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Advertiser 3
So I asked Jimmy Johnson once in the green room at Fox. I would get there early and pepper him with questions. And Jimmy taught me more football than anybody I've ever met. And I said, what's the most important thing, the number one quality? And I was surprised by it because, you know, those Miami programs were considered renegade. And he goes, oh, intelligence. He goes, colin, I think I'm a good coach. If you don't take to my coaching, I'm just an average coach. If you don't take to Andy Reid's coaching or Sean McVay's coaching, well, then those are less successful coaches. You have to get people that can. You can insert stuff and they can pick it up quickly. I can remember when Randy Moss came to the Patriots, dude, it was one practice, and they were like, yep, he knows the offense. It was like, Randy just knew the game of football. And it was funny. I remember people asking. I mean, I can remember the interviews, and it was just like, yeah, yeah. He just kind of picked everything up. He didn't have to tell Randy Moss anything twice. Like, he just instinctually knew what to do as a football player.
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Advertiser 5
You know, obviously this guy, you know, can be a pain sometimes and, you know, got some stuff going on right now. Tyreek Hill. But I remember talking to Andy Reid years ago, picking his brain on draft players or, you know, it was like a month before the draft, and we started talking about stuff like this, and he says, people don't understand how smart Tyreek Hill is in terms of offense. I tell him one thing, he's picked it up for the rest of the year. So it's like, why did they have so much success? Obviously, he's got special physical skills. They could do everything with them. Why do some guys that are these great talents, like, why aren't they using them more? He doesn't know what he's doing. He's like a Randy Moss, a Tyree Kill. You tell him one time in the middle of August, I pull that out in November in a tie game in the fourth quarter when it's freezing cold against the Ravens, Boom. He's like, yeah, coach, no problem. Run it, run it again. He comes to me with ideas and that separates these guys. Most of the best players you look around at positions I'd even say historically, are football geniuses, from Ed Reed to Ronnie Lott. Any position, right? Look, look at Travis Kelce. Him and Patrick Mahomes make up routes on. It's like, why can't anyone cover Travis? Because they're not running plays. He runs whatever. You go the opposite way. And it's from a football intellect standpoint. And he's a good example. And this is why the draft is so hard. He was a major red flag coming out of college. He's even talked about it. And he's. He matured as a human. But in terms of his football iq, like, you know, it's a. It's why some of these guys are going to fail. They can play. It's because they're not going to mature or they're not going to be able to handle football. And some of these guys, like the Ohio State crew of guys, I think is a bunch of on defense, bunch of higher character, tough, physical guys.
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Advertiser 3
Yeah.
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Advertiser 5
But I think a lot of people view them, their physical attributes aren't elite, but you watch, I bet the group, the middle linebacker, the couple pass rushers play in the league for like a decade.
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Advertiser 3
Right.
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Advertiser 5
Because that's that stuff usually, Matt. Now, I don't know how good of a players are going to be, but they're going to be around for a while. Guarantee it.
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Advertiser 3
Yeah. When I watch Cody Simon play for Ohio State, it was amazing. It was as if he knew where it was going. You would watch teams run motion and Cody Simon would just fill a gap move, and the ball always came to him. That was one of the players. He was one of my favorite players in the draft. I think Ohio State has so many good players. And to your point, these Ohio State guys Simon is such a character guy and Mecca Ebuka like a plus plus plus plus characters.
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Advertiser 5
Sawyer, jtt, that crew.
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Advertiser 3
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Advertiser 7
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Advertiser 8
There's a reason why it's been the number one men's antiperspirant for the last decade. It's the same reason why people were not happy when it changed. So if you never tried it, it might be a good time to see what the fuss is about.
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Advertiser 7
Head to your local Walmart or Target to try the OG degree Cool rush for yourself.
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- [24:24]
Advertiser 3
So I think it's interesting. So Houston is a team that I said this today on FS1 is that Oklahoma City is a similarly young team, but better and they've got a ton of draft picks. You're not going to leapfrog them. Whereas every one of their young players to me has sort of a defined role.
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Advertiser 2
Houston.
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Advertiser 3
Houston has Jalen Green, who's athletic, but I still don't know what his offensive game is in the half court. He's just athletic. And so I do think Houston's going to have to make take a swing. I think a Kevin Durant fits well, maybe they get into the. I mean, they may have more than anybody for Giannis, but. So we were talking about this. Jason McIntyre and I were talking about this and I said I would, I would. Houston has told people Amen Thompson, no chance. And it's funny watching him tonight with five steals in the first half. When I watch Amen Thompson, I absolutely know what he is. He's a physical, tough defense often is the best part of his game hustle. He has a defined, even though he's a kid, he has a defined game. And that's one of the first things I look for, actually, if Zion could have stayed in shape, I thought he had a very defined game. Like I knew what he was. Jalen Green, I don't know what he is. And I always feel like I don't care if it's a talk show host or a basketball player or a politician. If you don't, if you can't, kind of what are you? And if I'm struggling with that. Three years into your political career, it's like I'm not sure you are anything other than maybe smart or aspirational or driven. So I think I look at it and I think if they went into the Giannis sweepstakes, you'd have to give up two really good players. Would you give up Sengun Jalen Green and two firsts? Because I think if I'm Milwaukee, I'm going to have multiple suitors. I'M going to get a Malik, an OG and four. You know, I don't think the Knicks, you know, I gave up so many firsts for Mikhail Bridges. Let's just talk Houston. What would Houston give up in your opinion? You run the Rockets for Giannis?
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Advertiser 9
Well, first of all, Colin, at the I'm going to try not to be too insensitive here, but I'll tell you what Jalen Green is. He's salary filler that that's what he is at this point in his career. He has demonstrated through multiple years with Houston that there is certain things that he just hasn't figured out in terms of how to bring consistent winning impact every single game. When he's got his pull up three point shot going and he's making good decisions at the rim, he looks like an all star caliber player that can lift that team to greatness. But two out of three games he struggles to accomplish those things. And then suddenly the inattentiveness off ball, the poor decision making, all that just rises to the surface. And so he needs to go somewhere where he can go make mistakes for a while because he just needs a lot of time. Right. And you know, Amend Thompson to me should be untouchable. I would not give up a mentor, honest. I think that Amend. The only reason I would ever consider giving up a player of Amend Thompson's caliber is if I was certain that we would be a runaway favorite the next season. You know, like, like for instance, if OKC wanted to make a move for Giannis, they should be more willing to part with someone like a Jalen Williams for instance.
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Advertiser 3
Right.
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Advertiser 9
When you consider, when you consider the fact that they would immediately become a runaway championship favorite. Right. But Houston with Giannis is still like they'd be very good defensively, but it wouldn't be perfect. Right?
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Advertiser 3
Right.
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Advertiser 9
Amen. Amen. Thompson is the level of prospect that I think has the potential to be like the Scottie Pippen of this era.
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Advertiser 3
That's a great, the most, the most.
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Advertiser 9
Devastating perimeter athlete defensively that we have in the sport intim. He has. Exactly. But he has a lot more offensive pop than people realize. And wait till he starts to piece some of these parts of his game together. He can handle the ball a little bit. He's got a, a, a a pretty decent set of moves in one on one situations. Once he polishes up mainly the short range mid range shot making and adds a little bit of muscle, he's going to be a guy that can easily average 20 points a game in this league very Efficiently, potentially more.
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Advertiser 3
And he is, he is really a physical. I mean, most young players, Jason, are not that physical. He has a 29 to 33 year old physicality to him.
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Advertiser 9
When I watch him play, it's, it's the type of athlete that is most valuable in the modern NBA, which is rangy but also strong because there's a lot of rangy dudes that can get shoved around. But like there's a. When you can bring physicality and the ability to cover ground. I mean, that's what made Draymond, you know, the best defensive player of this era, is he could cover ground, but he was also big and strong and could win ground battles. And there's just a, there's a, a ton of value there. So like if I was running the Rockets, I would literally, I would negotiate earnestly, but I'd get a deal done. And what I mean by that is everything's on the table. But, but Amen Thompson, if you want Shangun, Jabari Smith Jr. And Jalen Green, we'll make it happen. You know, like whatever it is you need to do to make it happen. Because one of the things that Houston has is depth. They just have a lot of good players. They can afford to give up three rotational players for Giannis and not be in a situation where they don't have the requisite talent to compete next year.
- [29:36]
Advertiser 3
I want to throw something at you. This was my take on the Knicks Pistons is a year ago the Pistons were in a rebuild and the Knicks thought Mikhail Bridges was going to get them right up next to Boston. And yet five point separates these teams in five games. And my take is they gave up a little too much for Mikhail Bridges, though. I think everybody, myself included, kind of like the deal. But the problem was when you're talking vis a vis Knicks Celtics is that Jalen Brunson, OG and Mikhail Bridges and Cat, we know what they are. Tatum made a leap and Peyton Pritchard went from nine a game to the best guy in the league off the bench. And so two of the Celtics because Jaylen Brown has established what he is. Tatum is playing with a confidence today that we thought he should have been playing with four years ago. I don't think his skill's necessarily that much better, but go look at his first quarter scoring against Orlando. He's a much more aggressive player. And by the way, Steph's been burned by this, is that Steph sometimes defers. Steph's smart, collaborative, a great teammate, NBA fans. And it's not a criticism. It's a reality. They reward aggressive, even if it's like over the top. Westbrook aggressiveness. Like they just, I mean, and Westbrook jumps off the tv.
- [30:55]
Advertiser 9
He resonates with people.
- [30:56]
Advertiser 3
I mean, just, you can't. When. When he's on the floor, you can't. Okay, Westbrook's right there. That could be a seven footer. That's just. I always said with Andrew Wiggins, is he on the floor? Is he playing? Does he have. I mean, so my point being is, is that the problem that the Knicks face, and I think they have to swing big, is they thought McHale Bridges really bridged the gap. They were inches behind Boston. Tatum pops, Pritchard pops. And it's like, oh, God, they lost ground, actually. So I look at the Knicks and think, let's not waste our time here. Cleveland and Boston both got significantly better. New York is what. They just have good players. They've got to take a big swing.
- [31:38]
Advertiser 9
You know, I think people have missed the point on Boston in a lot of ways in the sense that they look at them as a team that's led by all these big wings that are super versatile. And I think that was the direction that the Knicks were trying to match.
- [31:53]
Advertiser 3
That's right.
- [31:53]
Advertiser 9
But it's much more of a team wide concept of the ability to piece together these lineups where everyone can guard. That's really the foundational concept that makes the Celtics so unbeatable. If you look at it, Mikhail Bridges, Og Anunoby and Josh Hart, in theory are these three rangy wings that can do a lot of work defensively. But because they're bracketed by these two weak points, there's almost like a diminishing return and having that type of defensive talent because of the way teams can still get them in rotation. Like, it's still the Pistons in the half court. Kate Cunningham bringing Jalen Brunson's man into the action and getting great looks attacking even though he's got OG Anunoby on him. Whereas if you're with the Celtics and you run that exact same thing at a Derrick White, good luck, you run that exact same thing at a Drew Holiday, good luck. And Peyton Pritchard competes his ass off defensively. And so that really is the foundational trait that everybody's missing is like you're seeing this situation where the Knicks copied almost on the margins in a way that has a diminishing return because of their bill. They almost would have been better off looking for like waiting and holding their firepower for a better player than Putting all their cards in the Mikhail Bridges type of basket. Because Mikhail Bridges would have been more valuable if Jalen Brunson and Karl Anthony Towns were replaced by more versatile defensive minded stars. And they're just not. And so I think the, the ultimately it doesn't matter how good your on ball defender is. If I can put him in an action that gets me an advantage, yeah.
- [33:24]
Advertiser 3
I kind of fell for it. I thought Mikhail Bridges got him close. I didn't think he would be better but I thought, oh, they'll compete. They could win a game, maybe a second and a seven game series or you know, you know and it's like, no, okay, I have to mention this, as I've always said in our business and you're in this business is I'm not, it's not flip flopping. If you give me new stuff, I'll have a new opinion. I have never liked six, four and under players, Derrick Rose, John Wall, Westbrook that aren't pure shooters. Nash, Curry, little guys don't lead the titles anyway. Historically Curry's an outlier. Isaiah Thomas, both by the way, really good perimeter shooters. Therefore when you're six, four and under and can't, especially with no hand check, you get to the rim and you get hit by the redwoods and you just hit the floor too often. Now Dwyane Wade had a little bit of this because he was never a gifted outside shooter. But Dwayne was built like a, like a running back. I mean he's, he's, he looks like an NFL player. So I was always like with Westbrook, I'm like, listen man, this is just, it just doesn't work for me. But I said I watched him last night and I thought he was last night. The tone setter of every great player in that game is that Jamal Murray would have an amazing second half. Jokic was off. I never trust Gordon or Porter offensively. Although I really love Gordon as a player. He is so relentless that he almost makes teammates guilty if they don't play with energy. Like, I mean you can see why like Harden and Westbrook, they're good buddies, they go to Houston, they didn't get along. And I think part of it was Westbrook is like, bro, I know you were out last night, but you can't bring that last game for the Clippers. I mean Harden might as well have been a hologram. I mean he was invisible. But I watched Westbrook and I think all these years later what I appreciate about him is he plays so hard, he almost forces you As a teammate to play harder, because you and I know this. Some nights. This is asking a lot. 82 games, playoffs. I mean, Jokic last night just doesn't have it. And I was like, kind of blown away by Westbrook last night and this newfound ability to hit a three. But it's. His energy was just ridiculous last night in the first half.
- [35:55]
Advertiser 9
Yeah, it's infectious. It. I, I'm so glad you said it like that, because I've always felt that way in team basketball. Like, when there is somebody on your team that is busting his ass on defense, you look like an idiot if you're out there next to him not doing the same thing. It, It. It screams on film. And like, trust me, like, these film sessions, like, I remember when I was in college, like, it's embarrassing when you're sitting in the room and you're not doing your job. Like, and, and the, The.
- [36:23]
Advertiser 3
The.
- [36:23]
Advertiser 9
The coach is pausing the screen and like, you're jogging fence, and he's standing up there pointing at you in front of your teammates. Like, it. Laziness stands out on the tv. It stands out in film. It especially stands out juxtaposed with an energy bunny. And like, that. There's a ton of value there. I, you know, I've, like, really grown to appreciate Russell Westbrook in this phase of his career in a way that I didn't in the past. Yep, couple different things. He is a guy that his motor and physicality actually translates in the postseason really well because he's a very physical player. So, like, and we've seen so many examples of this in NBA history. The big, strong athlete who plays hard just has a lot of utility when it's a rock fight, when it's like, super, super physical. During the regular season with the Lakers, there was just so much time where he was asked to do more than he was capable of. But as this has shifted towards him being in a smaller role, he's polished up his jump shooting. Like you mentioned earlier. Like, he put in work behind the scenes. He understood, oh, if I'm going to stay in this league, I'm going to need to be able to hit a corner three. And so he's put in a lot of work behind the scenes. The second piece of it, finding a fit that works. So, for instance, Jokic, we've talked about this on the show before, inverts your spacing. He brings the center away from the basket. That makes it so there's fewer redwoods around the basket. And so Russ is. Russ had a layup missing problem over the years, and he's missing fewer layups in Denver because he's getting easier cuts right around the rim. And so when you combine the little bit of corner three point shooting, the ability to finish because of the lack of congestion under the rim with the Jokic team, and then you add to it just the way his physicality translates to the playoffs, he's become a very useful player for the Nuggets now, like a flat out important player in the championship goals, no question.
- [38:14]
Advertiser 3
And there. And I know this isn't the be all, end all, but there is something about when you turn a television on and you come into the second quarter, the players that add something, you can usually spot in like two possessions. Like, you're like, oh, like Amend Thompson's a great example. You're like, shit, man, that dude is physical. He's an intimidating presence. Obviously. Great scores. Almost all have that. Russell Westbrook jumps to the TV screen. He is just straight gin on the rocks. It's like, pow. It hits you. It's like, who's this guy, like, cutting? And Jimmy Butler's got that too, when he's really into it. So it's like, dude, who is like, when you're a pro athlete and can kind of intimidate other pro athletes, and it's a man's got it, Butler's got it, Russell's got it. No. And you know, it's funny watching Westbrook, I'm thinking, could he have always shot threes like this? He's now shooting them because he's probably a little less, you know, I mean, everybody comes down a little bit athletically, and he was so hyper athletic. But it is amazing to me to watch him shoot threes. I don't know if the shooting style has changed, but last night I'm like, it looked smooth. It looked confident and comfortable. The Mavericks shouldn't have traded Luka, but. And Zach Lowe was talking about this on the ringer is that I would never trade Mahomes Allen and Lamar Jackson, but I would now take a call on Joe Burrow because of two major injuries. I would take a call. I'm not looking to trade him. I would take a call on Jalen Hurts, who I still think small and okay in the pocket, but there are players, you know, like LeBron in his prime got you guaranteed finals. MJ got you guaranteed titles. Kareem got you titles in Lucas prime, he guarantees you buckets. And those are great. But there is a difference between the LeBron and his prime. And I think now he'll be in better shape next year. The Lakers won the trade. I'm not in any way insinuating they didn't crush it, but I think this little peek at Luka, when you, let's face it, when he's on your team, you just watch him more. Even if you love the NBA, you watch him more. Can you look at him now? And you watch as much NBA as anybody. But is there a part of you, even 10% that goes, I get Houston, I get Dallas and Nico taking the call.
- [40:55]
Advertiser 9
So just because there is a reason to do something doesn't mean it's reason enough. And like I see the reason, like they call it. I don't want to be overly critical of Luca here because it is tough to come into a team right in the middle of the season and to do all of the things that he's being asked to do. But let me just pause it like, let me just present it like this. If Luka outplays Ant, do the Lakers win the series? Let me, let me give you one more.
- [41:29]
Advertiser 3
Well, I mean, literally the last game at was like six of seven against him. So I think that is. They don't put Luca on Ant a ton because for obvious reasons. So I'm not sure what the answer is to that.
- [41:42]
Advertiser 9
So in the fourth quarter in this series, which is where the games have been decided.
- [41:46]
Advertiser 3
Yes. And by the way, Minnesota was in these close games all year long. I mean, so it's like that is who they. They're not pretty enough offensively to blow good teams out. They're in all, all their games look like this.
- [41:59]
Advertiser 9
Luka has five made field goals and one assist in the fourth quarter in the series. Ant has 10 made field goals and seven assists in the fourth quarter in the series. He has dramatically outpaced Luka's output when the games have been on the line late. Luka is shooting 5 for 17 in the fourth quarter in the series and he looks blatantly exhausted every single time. Down the stretch of these games, there's been so much focus on the fact that he had to play 24 straight minutes. You know who else played 24 straight minutes to end that game? Anthony Edwards. He looked fantastic, right? Julius Randle played 23 and a half of the 24 available minutes. He looked fantastic. He's guarding Lebron, grabbing rebounds, doing all that kind of stuff. LeBron, who's 40 years old, had three of the most absurd defensive plays I've seen. Like LeBron almost single handedly stole that game with defense.
- [42:49]
Advertiser 3
Yeah, Divincenzo block and the Finney Smith shot in the other end.
- [42:54]
Advertiser 9
Yeah, and then he stripped Nas Reed on the very next possession, got another stop, and then he did strip Anthony Edwards on what was kind of an iffy call. It was kind of already slipping when he was like. But it was good defense on that play. The point being, like, there were four stars in that game that all played basically the entire second half. Three of them looked like they were spry. For the record, they're all better athletes. I'm not expecting Luca to be out there flying around like a 6, 8 freak athlete in those situations, but I would expect him to look like Luca. I would expect him to look like Luca. And the bottom line is, is every single time a game has been hanging in the balance in this series, late Ant has looked like Ant and Luca hasn't in, the Wolves have immediately taken control and won the series. So I don't think it's negotiable at all at this point whether or not Lucas conditioning is standing in the way of whether or not they could have won the series. The Lakers controlled the first three quarters. They, they are capable, they are capable of beating this team. And in the biggest. Like, like for instance, I saw some criticism of LeBron for having zero points. For the record, LeBron does deserve some criticism. He had a bad turnover late. I didn't like the three he took off the left wing. Zero points. Like, find a way to score something. But he only took two shots in that fourth quarter. You know why? Because this team has a construct. The construct is we need Luca to create offense for us. That's his one job. This is one job. Everyone else, like LeBron's job on this team is to be Draymond Green on the other end of the floor. You know, and like, yes, LeBron could have and should have done more, but I left that game very disappointed because I felt like Luca, when the series was hanging in the balance, didn't even look remotely like himself. If he makes that layup against Nas Reed, which by the way is just maybe a little bit more conditioned athlete than he is right now, doesn't even have to be in peak condition, just in good enough shape to get the lift, to get that ball up off the backboard, they win this, they don't win the series, they win the game. It's two, two. But instead he smoked it and then didn't get back in transition defense and left Nas Reed open. He hit a three and all of a sudden a seven point game is a two point Game.
- [44:56]
Advertiser 3
Right.
- [44:56]
Advertiser 9
So like, so like, I, I, I am a huge believer in Luka. I genuinely think he could be the best player in the league. There's a version of this if he gets in shape where he is the best combination of scoring and playmaking talent in the NBA after Jokic ages out, and if he is, and he also gets in good shape and becomes just an above average defensive player, that's the best basketball player in the world, it's an achievable outcome for him. He just has to put in the work behind the scenes. And by the way, it's not too late. Maybe he can flip the script, but the Lakers are not winning tonight and Friday and Sunday unless Luka Doncic outplays Anthony Edwards and he has to win that matchup.
- [45:33]
Advertiser 3
Yeah, no, I think that's really well put. Is that any? Listen, it's just years ago I said, and I got so much pushback, I said he's a better version of Carmelo. He's a better version, there's no question. But Carmelo is one of the greatest, I mean, one of the great offensive talents we've seen in 15 years. Like, he was an absolute bucket against every defender in the league. And the truth is, so was Luca. But I say this, most great players, at least for about a seven year window in their prime, were great defenders. Now you can be Bird and Staff, where you're trying really hard, but you're limited. That's also okay in the locker room, but mailing it in sends a message. Harden Luka, mellow. It sends a message like, you guys take it from here. And you know, a lot of times in the NBA you don't face a profound offensive player on the other end. But when you and Ant are matching up and ants this ascending dynamic player that you can't take your eyes off, you notice like Lucas Defense is noticeable. Noticeably awful. And I think it was well said by you, the volume.
- [46:51]
Advertiser 7
Okay, have you heard about this? Last year, Degree changed the formula for their Cool Rush deodorant. Their fans rebelled and wanted the old sim back. And Degree Listen, that doesn't happen often.
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Advertiser 8
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Advertiser 7
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Advertiser 2
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- [48:41]
Advertiser 10
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