← The Herd with Colin Cowherd
The Herd with Colin Cowherd
Colin Cowherd Podcast Prime Cuts- Take The Under On The Chiefs, You Can’t Compare NBA Eras, Weak 2025 NFL Draft Class
00:42:15
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- [00:00]
Jeremy Hobson
We live in a divided country, and our media couldn't be more polarizing. That's why we started the Middle with Jeremy Hobson. It's about bringing voices not from the extremes, but from the vast middle into the national conversation. Each week we hear from ordinary Americans from all over the country. And when you subscribe to the Middle, you also get an episode each week called One Thing Trump did that focuses on just one item from the avalanche of news. Listen to the Middle with Jeremy Hobson on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [00:32]
Gilbert King
Something unexpected happened after Jeremy Scott confessed to killing Michelle Schofield in Bone Valley season one.
- [00:39]
Jeremy Scott
Every time I hear about my dad.
- [00:41]
Colin Cowherd
It'S, oh, he's a killer.
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Jeremy Scott
He's just straight evil.
- [00:44]
Gilbert King
I was becoming the bridge between Jeremy Scott and the son he'd never known.
- [00:49]
Jeremy Scott
At the end of the day, I'm literally a son of a killer.
- [00:51]
Gilbert King
Listen to new episodes of bone Valley Season 2, starting April 9 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [01:02]
Colin Cowherd
The volume. As I've told you, Fubo is my favorite way to watch live sports. Flying from Chicago to LA this past week, I'm all over fubo. NFL, NBA baseball, college sports tournament, baseball's here, Masters next week. You know, sometimes you're at one of your kids games, you're at a family function, you just want, you want that phone and you want Fubot next to you, just go to fubotv.com Colin F U B O fubotv.com Colin get $52 months of FUBO. I have been using it for years. I'm addicted to it. It is the first place I check when I'm out, but want to keep attached and informed on sports. And they've got more than sports, but check it out. Fubotv.com Colin Fifty bucks off. Two months. Fubotv all right, John Mitlikoff, former NFL scout, you know him, you love him. The podcast three and out loves his golf as well. As we get ready for the Masters, that's around the corner, but we've got some NFL stuff to talk about. So we got into this discussion on the show today and I said, you know, obviously when the NFL had to write almost a, you know, a billion dollar check for cte, the game got safer really fast and you can't touch quarterbacks. You really can't go high or at the wrong angle on anybody but a running back going forward. That's why it's, it's really makes sense to have two and three running backs in the rot because it's the last position you can really clobber from any angle at any time. And I said, because it's become such an offensive league, there's only one way to win with exceptional offensive quarterback play. And I said, here's the thing about Shador Sanders. If you're Cleveland, if you draft him, he is at best the third best quarterback in that division. He'll never be as good as Burrow. He's not that kind of prospect. And he's not Lamar Jackson. If the Steelers hit on a quarterback in the next two years, he could be four. He's not an exceptional athlete, not an exceptional arm. And if, and if, for instance, the Giants wanted him, he's not going to be Jaden Daniels. And he's not special athletically like Jalen Hurts. He may be better than Dak, but again, he would be third best quarterback in a division. And so my takeaway on Chidor Sanders is do teams think like that? Like, like it only takes one coach to love Bo Nix, right? Like Sean Payton loved him because there's a little bit of a doppelganger with Drew Brees. But when I look at Shador and I like him, I can't argue that Burrow, Lamar Shador is three. I can't argue that Jalen and Jaden Daniels, Shador is three. And those kind of quarterbacks are infrequent playoff quarterbacks. Do scouts think like that?
- [03:56]
Jeremy Scott
Yeah, I mean, these conversations definitely come up not only right now, but throughout the fall when your scouts are going in. The problem with that mindset, you would never draft a quarterback because who the hell is ever going to be better than Lamar Jackson or Joe Burrow, right? Or, you know, you're never going to. How are you ever going to find like a 23 year old matt Stafford? Like more than likely you're not going to draft this high again. And you know, two names that I hear come up a lot or definitely one, and I'll use another name, is Andy Dalton. And I would throw Derek Carr in there as well. You know, I think people that say, you know that type of skill set historically, Shador Sanders, those guys went pick 35 and pick 36, I think 10 years ago. He's going in the second round and people are very excited about him. Jimmy Garoppolo as well at the end of the second round. Andy Dalton has made 168 starts in the NFL and he was in a division with a fantastic Ravens defense and Roethlisberger in his prime and they were going to the playoffs all the time. Carr took a dysfunctional Raider team twice to the playoffs. So if Shador is in that mold, it's really on the organization. And if you're the Browns, Andrew Barry's pretty good. Gm, Stefanski is pretty good coach. They got a lot of talent on the team. So if he can just become that. Andy Dalton, Jimmy Garoppolo, Derek Carr. Yeah, you're not going to beat, you know, if Lamar Jackson or Joe Burrow were on, they're going to beat you. But you still have a lot of other games throughout the season. So it's. If you can build the team well enough, can't you compete to make the playoffs? I mean, they're drafting two over a hole right now.
- [05:28]
Jason Timp
Right.
- [05:29]
Jeremy Scott
And granted that's because, I mean, desean became one of the worst quarterbacks we've ever seen. Their team just fell apart this year, but more than likely they're not going to draft this high again. Now, is it a quote unquote overdraft? Yeah, but the reason Mac Jones and Daniel Jones and those type guys became disastrous, you couldn't even function with them as your starting quarterback. Right. Andy Dalton for seven straight years with the, with the Bengals, they did a good job. You could just, every year you went in like, we're going to win 10 plus games. The Browns would die to do that. Their owner, who can be a little off the wall sometimes, I give him credit for making the comment the other day. You never hear that, you know, admitting we still owe the guy $90 million. It's a disaster. It's like, well, yeah, that's true. Well, yeah, they never say that he is spending a lot of cash. Like the salary cap's different than cash being spent. Jeffrey Lurie talked about that. I saw today they are spending, I think they've spent more money over the last four years in cash than any other team in the league. It's like well over a billion dollars. So he is not in this to lose. But the betting markets have Abdul Carter as the heavy favorite to be the number two overall pick. So maybe they're thinking Shador Sanders. What the hell is the difference of Shador Sanders? I know you like, like Riley Leonards of the world and those type guys. We can get a guy like that in the second or third round and maybe he can be like our cousins or Dak. They also talk and think like that. So maybe they go, I'd rather have Riley Leonard or Kyle McCord and Abdul Carter than Shador Sanders and whoever else we would get in the second round. So I think you're doing a lot of those conversations.
- [07:00]
Colin Cowherd
There's a lot of people saying that Jackson Dart has a better arm than Shador Sanders. So you might as well just wait and draft Jackson Dart. Although I would say he's not nearly as accurate as Shador Sanders. And accuracy, to me is like a real thing. Maybe Darth most important thing, Jalen Melrose, mechanical. I think he has to fall to the right hands. Or he could just be Anthony Richards at 2.0. Yeah, you know, I've said Kyle McCourt at Syracuse. I take him in the second round and feel pretty good. I will say this, though, that, you know, people say it's not a very good draft. And I'll tell you, I look at certain teams that need skill players, like the New York Giants. If they got Travis Hunter with their first pick and in their second pick got. Is it Trayvon Henderson from Ohio State?
- [07:55]
Jeremy Scott
Yeah.
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Colin Cowherd
With Malik Neighbors. I look at that and I think to myself, oh, that's a great draft for the New York Giants because I like their head coach as an offensive coach. And I think Russell will actually be a better version of the Pittsburgh Russell because I think Mike Tomlin's culture is years behind Brian Dable offensively. Is there a team in this draft that you look at and think, you know, it's not a great draft, but what they need, running back, tight end, defensive tackle, there's a surplus of in this draft?
- [08:27]
Jeremy Scott
Well, I think if you look at the Giants, if you're Brian Dayball, people go, why would they sign both those two guys? Because Brian Dabel's coaching for his job. Shador Sanders does not help him at all in 2025. So he can take two quarterbacks, let the cream rise out of the two and go back and forth. He would go all in on Travis Hunter. He would want players that help him win immediately. So if you tell me they get Travis Hunter and they're starting running back or starting tight end or just another more explosive player. Yeah, I mean, I think the Giants are just much more feasible. You watch them at the end of the year, last year when they had some injuries, it's like that. This team has a lot of parallels with the Patriots.
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Jason Timp
Right.
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Jeremy Scott
Just no talent. What's going on here? But all of a sudden you get Malik neighbors, which he has concussion issues. You know, you get another concussion, that's a little scary. But there is no disputing his. His physical gifts. I mean, he's A freak. I mean, that. That's one. You look back, and this is the hard part about the draft. There is no such thing as a high floor because any player might not work out. It doesn't matter how your floor is determined once you get in the NFL. All I heard last year was like, Marvin Harrison's floor is so high, Malik's. Malik could be boom or bust. And then you watch, you're like, you don't think the Arizona Cardinals regret not going Malik neighbors over Marvin Harrison Jr. Because they do. And the Giants benefited from them making that choice. And I think we use that term a lot. Ceilings are real. Like, certain guys have higher ceilings. Cam Ward ceiling is obviously higher than Shador Sanders. But a floor like, we've seen all sorts of players not work out in the end, you never know. And we always played this game a couple years later. Should have taken him. Should have taken him. No one knew that information. As we sit here a month away from the draft, if we would have known Richard Sherman and George Kittle and these guys existed the fifth round, they would have been top 20 picks. So it is a little bit of a crapshoot. And I think it gets more difficult in a class like this, which obviously they're going to be a lot of really good players that come out of this draft, but no one feels that confident on a lot of these guys. You know, it's like, well, how high is Mason Graham ceiling? Or is like, well, what's his name, the LSU tackle? It's like, well, yeah, arm length kind of matters at left tackle, but what if in five years he just becomes an all pro guard? But you don't take an all pro guard probably at 5 overall, right. You'd rather have a tackle. So there's just a lot of unknown, which I think a lot of these, the scouting community is just, there's like, yeah, it's kind of coin flip year.
- [10:54]
Colin Cowherd
In your years of being a scout. I mean, you have your top 150 players like, and you also have the red players that you won't draft either personnel, personality problems, character issues or injuries. Are there any dramatic moves with two to three weeks to go in the draft process? When in your experience.
- [11:17]
Jeremy Scott
Yeah, I would say, you know, the information most of these teams, you know, with the owner's meeting. So all the GMs and coaches are flying home, if not last night, today, and by either the end of the week or first thing next week, all your scouts come in. And the scouts and your, you know, your personnel people, some of Your other executives have been on campuses over the last month, right? Meeting with coaches, other personnel at those schools. Certain guys, you don't have to worry about anything off the field. Like they're just, it's just perfect, you know, Andrew Lux or. But there are a ton of those guys in the draft where it's like you don't even. But there are some guys, maybe not legal, like they've been arrested or, you know, crazy bad things, but they're just like, how much does he really like football? Which might be a non negotiable in the organization. Like the Ravens don't draft. Many people that aren't addicted to football, watch them play over the last 20 years. So you're just like, maybe you've heard some stuff and you bring that information back to your gm, to your head coach and that can sway stuff. So it's not like a dramatic. Unless someone gets in trouble and that becomes public knowledge. But it's basic things like, yeah, I've heard some things that this guy might not be quite what we thought as a person because I think when you, you know a lot of these people. When you talk to coaches and executives, most people fail, especially drafted in the first couple rounds. Like they're meeting a lot of the requirements of height, weight, speed. Played at sweet schools. It's usually the person that fails. Focus, screw around. Yeah, not dialed in. Doesn't really like football. Football's not like baseball, where you just get to play every day. Or basketball, where you play three times a week, you practice basically five days a week and you play once. And you only had 17 of those games for the majority of the league. You don't go to the playoffs and then you get OTAs, you get training camp. It's a lot of sitting in a room, watching tape, getting yelled at, getting up early, going to, you know, going to bed sore. It's not, you know, Ray Lewis, you pay me Monday through Saturday, Sundays are for free. There's a lot to that. It's why the best players typically are football addicts at all the positions, right? The J.J. watts, the Trent Williams that you just go around. George Kittle, you know, at every. Travis Kelsey forever. All the Patriot type guys, the human being. But you got to be careful with overvaluing that because you do need to be able to play. And that's. I think Belichick got in trouble at the end of his career. So it's, it's hard. I mean, you run a company hiring people, you've had a lot of people on your show for years before even the volume. It's. You're dealing with human beings with a lot of pressure with a very public job.
- [13:52]
Colin Cowherd
It's.
- [13:53]
Jeremy Scott
We all shit on it when guys miss. And it's fair sometimes. But it's also like this is really, really difficult to, you know, pick a guy. I hear this a lot. Why can't the Chiefs find a tackle? Well, it's like guys they draft 31 or 32nd every single year, they don't have that much cap space. And I don't know if you've checked free agency usually hall of Fame tack don't hit free agency. It's like what do you want them to do? Like Lane Johnson isn't usually sitting there at pick 32. And when you're drafting at pick 32, you're also drafting at the end of the second round and the third round. It's much easier to draft when you're the Titans and you dictate every round than it is when you're the Bills or the Ravens or the Chiefs.
- [14:36]
Colin Cowherd
So the, you know, the overs and unders are coming out. So I want us to give the audience have some fun here. Two overs and two unders and I'll start this. All the odds are provided by DraftKings Sportsbook. So I'm going to give you an under, then you give me an under and then I'll give you another under and then we'll do two overs. So my first under is the Chiefs at 11 and a half. Okay. Joe Tuney was by far and away the most had the most dexterity of any of their offensive linemen. He's gone. They are now crossing their fingers on a backup left tackle from San Francisco. They were 11 and oh in one possession games. Right like and now the division is much better. The coaching and the quarterback play. Bo Nixon Year 2 Geno Smith if they get a running back in the first round. Geno Smith has a 106 passer rating in Seattle on play action passing. Look, if you give him a run game, Geno's very good on third and two, right? He's very good with play action passing. Second and five, third and two, third and three. So I, I don't think I would take the under now. Maybe they just go 11 and 6 but I think the division is going to be improved. The quarterback play between Geno second year bow again. I thought last year there were offensive line injuries with the Chargers. I. My guess is they'll be healthier. Okay, what say you give me an. Give me an under do you say.
- [16:18]
Jeremy Scott
Ten and a half on that number?
- [16:19]
Colin Cowherd
It's eleven and a half. DraftKings has the Chiefs at eleven and a half. I would bet the under got you.
- [16:25]
Jeremy Scott
They. They've won over 12 games. I think every year Mahomes has started beside one. Yeah, but I hear you.
- [16:31]
Colin Cowherd
It's.
- [16:32]
Jeremy Scott
You can have a good year. I mean they won a Super bowl, winning 11. I would say an under. I like. I do think the 49ers, who are the Rams, won that division and were really good and honestly, I mean a couple of plays away from potentially beating the Eagles and who knows, they might end up in the super bowl and win it. They wanted a 10 and 7. Right. So. And they're a team going through a lot of transition, so. The 49ers won six games though they were in a lot of them. They kind of melted at the end in a lot of them. So I, I actually think, I think a lot of people are going to think they're going to win like six or seven games. I think they're going to be better than people think. But once you start getting over 10, like 10 and a half like I. You could win nine or 10 games, be that seven seed, hell, compete to win the division and have a good season. So I think the days, you know, definitely this season, that's going to be a very dependent on young rookie players.
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Colin Cowherd
Yeah, they have 12 draft picks.
- [17:32]
Jeremy Scott
Yeah, I mean that's. We've seen the Rams the last couple of years. I don't know exactly. They've been a fantastic team. At the end of the year, they're not winning 12 games. So I think the Niners probably more likely to win nine or 10 games. I also think that division is just going to be, you know, the Cardinals are just a tough game every time you play them. Obviously the Rams are good in Seattle going through a little bit of a transitional period, but their head coach, I think they're pretty well run operation.
- [17:57]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah, listen, they're one of my unders too at ten and a half.
- [18:01]
Jeremy Scott
Seattle.
- [18:02]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah, they tried to get Greenlaw back from Denver. They did not want to lose Hufanga. Okay. Those were two big defensive losses. And let's be honest, John, the Boses get hurt. When Bosa was off the field last year, they were not a very good defense. They were really inconsistent. So now Hunga's gone, Greenlaw's gone, Bosa will miss a stretch and it's not a great draft. So I don't think there's an impact player defensively. Maybe if they got like Will Johnson at corner from Michigan, I think that would be a really, really. You'd have to be happy with that. But yeah, I think I have San Francisco as a under, so I have Kansas City, you have San Francisco, I have San Francisco. Give me another under.
- [18:47]
Jeremy Scott
I would say I think there's a chance Miami is like the one of the worst teams in the NFL. Like it would not shock me if you tell me as you and I are sitting here doing a pre draft a couple weeks. Miami's in the mix. Maybe they don't have the number one overall pick, but I could see him being like the Giants or the Patriots drafting three or four. It would not shock me to see them struggle to win four or five games. I think they're going to be terrible. I thought that last year and they just obviously when two is on the field, they're more functional. It would not surprise me at all if this Tyreek situation doesn't go away and he ends up playing for another team this year. I don't know if that trade would happen during the draft. I know they've pushed back against that, maybe at the end of training camp, but I just expect Miami to implode. I really do. I mean, I don't really like the jets that much either, but like even last year, the jets do have a lot of good players.
- [19:40]
Colin Cowherd
Oh, absolutely.
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Jeremy Scott
I just don't think Miami has that many good players and they are one concussion away from all of a sudd. Zach Wilson's are starting quarterback.
- [19:47]
Colin Cowherd
Yes. Okay, I'll give you an over. I think Brian Callahan's a good coach. I think Will Levis is a really, really bad NFL quarterback. I don't think he was a great college quarterback. And so I look at the over under on Tennessee and you know, it's, it's five and a half. Some have had it at six and a half. I think they clear that bar easily. First of all, Cam Ward's a playmaker and nobody's got real film on him. He didn't do a lot of straight pocket stuff in college. It was a lot of backyard stuff. And I think the league will take a while and they did this with Jaden Daniels. It took a while to decode him. People were Bo Nix. You're not quite sure what he is. It's a weak division. The Jags could be bad, the Colts would be bad. Houston should be pretty good, but not great. I think I'm going to take the Titans over. I think it's a pretty weak schedule. I Think Cam Ward is one of the only players in the draft that can equal wins. I think people think Callahan's a pretty good coach. And Callahan didn't just lack trust in Will Levis. If you listened to his postgame comments after losses, he lost them three games straight out. And you watched his body language. He almost resented that Will Levis was getting in the way of wins. And so I. Titans to me aren't over.
- [21:21]
Jeremy Scott
Yeah, I don't think people, you know, we talk a lot about the Browns because of Watts, because Deshaun Watson's quarterback play by the a month in, no one was watching the Titans. Their quarterback play was like historically poor. I mean the turnovers, the sacks he was taking, it was. Their defense was actually pretty good.
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Colin Cowherd
Yes.
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Jeremy Scott
And like any team with a pretty good defense, when your offense is that crappy by the time you get to like mid November, they can't maintain that level of play because they're on the field so much. So if their offense is just solid, I'm with you. I mean he's got his dad there coaching offensive line, massive upgrade just based on talent alone. I would say this. If you look at variable like the linebacker version of Harbaugh, you know, wants to play defense, wants to run the ball. Former players, just guys that just win. I think the Patriots were right up there with the Bears as one of the worst coach teams you will ever see last season. Why couldn't they go 9 and 8 this year? If you go the jets are, the jets are going to be awful. I think the Dolphins are going to be worse.
- [22:22]
Colin Cowherd
Yep.
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Jeremy Scott
Listen, the Bills, who cares even if they sweep you, I could see the Patriots winning eight or nine games.
- [22:29]
Colin Cowherd
Listen, they were seven and a half draft kings. They are now up to eight and a half. So the Sharps, it looks like we're all over the Patriots. So New England was one of my overs and I said the other day on the air I said I think Vrabel from Gerard Mayo is worth three points. I think Drake May is worth another point based on sophomore season and I think it's reasonable assume 190 million in free agency and eight to nine draft picks is worth one and a half to two points. So if they're just five and a half points to six points better and again you're talking about between the draft and free agency like eight to nine new starters and a couple of high end starters. You're talking about Drake May potentially with a Travis Hunter. You're talking about the worst coach team to probably one of the Seven to eight to nine, best coach teams, that's five and a half to six points. They were three and six in one possession games with rookie quarterback. If that's just six and three, you don't have to go nine and oh, this is an eight to nine win team. And again, the jets are a bit lost. I agree with you. Miami's a mess. So I think New England's in play.
- [23:37]
Jeremy Scott
I would say the other team would be. Speaking of Harbaugh, the Chargers, you know, last year I just didn't pull the trigger and he did exactly what he did. They were the five seed. Well, this year it's nine and a half and everyone always gets off the scent with them during like free agency. Jim is not going to trade for DK Metcalf and give him $150 million. He didn't do it last year, he's not going to do it this year, he won't do it next year. You know what he will do though, in like the second round? All of a sudden he will draft his starting tight end for the next seven years and in the third round find a defensive tackle that everyone's going to. This guy's not that sexy who will just be a starter for him for a long time. Then you watch the season and you just go, God, their team is just physical and good. He has a really talented quarterback. Why couldn't they win 12 games? I mean, they're over under right now is nine and a half. I think they are a lock. I mean, Jim Harbaugh is now coached in the NFL five years and made the playoffs in four of them. So I don't know if they can overtake the Chiefs, but it wouldn't shock me if it gets a little closer. And don't let free agency fool you, he's never going to play and swim in that end of the pool. They are never going to do that. But you know, you've talked about this huge advantage for Jim, all these kids coming in the draft. He's recruited them all, especially the good ones. So he's going to know these guys. It's going to be a huge point of difference for him. I would expect them to have a good draft. His GM I think, is pretty good. I mean, look at last year. It's like, how did they pass on Malik Davers? I don't know. They just got their starting tackle for the next decade. So I think the Chargers, they fooled me is the wrong word. I just didn't have the cojones just because I was like I don't know if their roster is quite good enough. They're not going to have great wide receivers. He typically never does and he always wins. He won a national championship. He went to a Super Bowl. Like he's not exactly going to have Jerry Rice in his prime. And it's going to work out just fine.
- [25:29]
Colin Cowherd
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- [26:15]
Jeremy Scott
Gambling problem.
- [26:16]
Colin Cowherd
Call 1-800- gambler in New York, call.
- [26:18]
Jeremy Scott
877-8-Hopeny or text hopeny 467-369 in Connecticut. Help is available for problem gambling.
- [26:25]
Colin Cowherd
Call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org Please play.
- [26:30]
Jeremy Scott
Responsibly on behalf of Boot Hill Casino and resort in Kansas, 21 and over.
- [26:33]
Colin Cowherd
Age and eligibility varies by jurisdiction. Void in Ontario, new customers only. Bonus bets expire 168 hours after issuance. For additional terms and responsible gaming resources, see DKNG Co Audio.
- [26:47]
Jeremy Hobson
We live in a divided country.
- [26:49]
Gilbert King
I am a lifelong Republican with all.
- [26:51]
Jeremy Hobson
Kinds of different people.
- [26:53]
Colin Cowherd
You know, I'm a mother. I'm a grandmother.
- [26:55]
Jeremy Hobson
That's why we started the Middle with Jeremy Hobson. It's about bringing voices not from the extremes, but from the vast middle, into the national conversation.
- [27:04]
Jason Timp
Anna, I'm calling from Las Vegas.
- [27:06]
Jeremy Hobson
Each week we bring together an all star panel. Mark Cuban, so great to have you on the Middle.
- [27:11]
Colin Cowherd
Thanks for having me.
- [27:11]
Jason Timp
Jeremy.
- [27:12]
Jeremy Hobson
Neil Degrasse Tyson, welcome to the Middle.
- [27:14]
Colin Cowherd
Thanks for having me.
- [27:15]
Jeremy Hobson
And hear from ordinary Americans from all over the country on the most important issues.
- [27:19]
Jason Timp
Hi, my name is Venkat.
- [27:21]
Colin Cowherd
I'm calling you from Atlanta, Georgia.
- [27:23]
Jeremy Hobson
And when you subscribe, subscribe to the Middle. You also get an episode each week called One Thing Trump did that focuses on just one item from the avalanche of news.
- [27:31]
Jason Timp
We should be examining what our government spends its money on and are these.
- [27:35]
Jeremy Scott
Jobs necessary and what are we doing here?
- [27:37]
Colin Cowherd
But that doesn't seem to be what we're doing in this situation.
- [27:39]
Jeremy Hobson
Listen to the middle with Jeremy Hobson on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [27:47]
Gilbert King
Something unexpected happened after Jeremy Scott confessed to killing Michelle Schofield in Bone Valley season one.
- [27:54]
Colin Cowherd
I just knew him as a kid.
- [27:56]
Gilbert King
Long, silent voices from his past came.
- [27:59]
Jeremy Scott
Forward, and he was just staring at me.
- [28:02]
Gilbert King
And they had secrets of their own to share.
- [28:06]
Jeremy Scott
Gilbert King I'm the son of Jeremy Lynn Scott.
- [28:12]
Gilbert King
I was no longer just telling the story. I was part of it.
- [28:16]
Jeremy Scott
Every time I hear about my dad is, oh, he's a killer.
- [28:19]
Jason Timp
He.
- [28:19]
Jeremy Scott
He's just straight evil.
- [28:20]
Gilbert King
I was becoming the bridge between a killer and the son he'd never known.
- [28:25]
Jeremy Scott
If the cops and everything would have done their job properly, my dad would have been in jail. I would have never existed.
- [28:30]
Gilbert King
I never expected to find myself in this place. Now I need to tell you how I got here.
- [28:37]
Jeremy Scott
At the end of the day, I'm literally a son of a killer.
- [28:40]
Gilbert King
Bone Valley Season 2 Jeremy, Jeremy, I.
- [28:44]
Colin Cowherd
Want to tell you something.
- [28:46]
Gilbert King
Listen to new episodes of bone Valley Season 2 starting April 9 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear the entire new season ad free with exclusive content starting April 9th. Subscribe to Lava for Good plus on Apple Podcasts.
- [29:08]
Colin Cowherd
Well, you're gonna hear him more regularly now over the next seven weeks. Jason Timp, host of Hoops Tonight. You know, there was a comment I thought was interesting. LeBron was on a podcast or a show and he talked about, you know, Giannis would have scored 250 points back in the 70s. And I laughed because I thought, no, because they'd foul him and he can't hit free throws, so it wouldn't work. But, you know, it's interesting because I grew up with a 70s basketball, and I loved it. And I do think sometimes, you know, the players since 1973 have grown half an inch. The NBA was big and athletic then. Now nutrition's better, travel's better. But it was. I didn't love LeBron saying that. I was like, LeBron, Wilt and Jerry west played in the 70s. Dr. J played in the 70s. Bill Walton played in the 70s. I don't know why it didn't bother me, but it was one of those. I heard it and I thought no Giannis. Now, Giannis may have averaged 40, but he can't shoot like he can't shoot. What did you make of that comment and your thoughts about generational comparisons?
- [30:21]
Jason Timp
Well, for that, for that exact reason, like you mentioned the, the, the size. If it was not just size back then, Spacing was poor back then.
- [30:29]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah.
- [30:29]
Jason Timp
And in general, like, Giannis would have been running into a lot of bodies. That said, I firmly believe giannis would average 40, 45 if he played in that era, just simply because it would be like a man among, in terms of the athletes that he'd be competing with. I just a couple things. I don't see any point in comparing era to era in general. I mean, like, we talked about the 70s, like, it was not that long ago. That's 50 years ago. Like, that's, it's a half century ago. And in general, there's just been so many changes. Schematically, there's been so many changes in player development and the skill. Like, you know what's always so funny to me? When you go back and you watch basketball players in the 60s and 70s, the jump shots are all weird looking.
- [31:07]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah.
- [31:08]
Jason Timp
And one of the reason why the jump shots are all weird looking is they didn't get to go on YouTube or go turn on the TV and watch their favorite players play when they were kids. They, they taught themselves how to shoot. Everyone today kind of shoots more or less the same type of jump shot. And some people look weird, but most.
- [31:23]
Colin Cowherd
People shoot same with golf swings. By the way, the unique golf swing is over.
- [31:29]
Jason Timp
Exactly. Because now it's been optimized. We've optimized it. Now you reach your hand into the cookie jar, you start from the legs, you know, wasted motion. And we don't want to hit you in the shot, you know, and so it's one of those things where, like, we've just perfected this sport in so many different ways. And, you know, one of the things that I dislike about it, and it kind of goes back to what we talked about when we were talking about Stephen A. Smith a couple weeks ago. But when you. I don't believe in stooping down to that level. You, by the way, are. You have the a say, a saying that you've used over the years that I've loved. You said I can have an opinion and you can have an opinion on my opinion. I don't need to have an opinion on your opinion of my opinion, which, by the way, is like a foundational thing that I lean on when I'M when I'm doing what I do too. And like, one of the big things that I look at there is like, okay, LeBron, you're playing basketball okay. These old guys are trashing your era. What good does it do to then step in and then be disrespectful to their era? That doesn't serve a purpose, in my opinion. It kind of is. It's stooping to that level. It doesn't forward the conversation. And like, from that same point, I feel like LeBron is just shouldn't be the guy sending that type of message that he's trying to send. That said, like, I think in general, LeBron's just sick and tired of getting criticized by like the. The MJ clan, the throwback, like the old league was better type of clan. And I think he's just sick of it and I think he's acting out.
- [32:50]
Colin Cowherd
You know, it's interesting. The other day I was saying about okc, I'm like, I know they're going to win in some series. I know they're really good. I'm not doubting that brilliant gm. I don't think SGA will quite get that whistle in the postseason, but he'll get a whistle if Chet Holmgren's healthy. They've got some offensive options. I do worry about their young players in big road games. You know, everything changes. No sport in our country changes more from regular season to postseason. I mean, I'm watching here today you got to fight in the NBA, Minnesota's coaches, and it's. You're getting feisty now and playoff seating. And it's like it changes the game. It's outside of the COVID year men went in the playoffs. Young men can do really well in the regular season. But the one thing about Oklahoma City, Tom Tolbert texted me when I was talking about him, he goes, they lead the NBA in assists, or they lead the NBA in creating turnovers, but have the fewest turnovers. They just are really, really efficient. They don't turn it over and they force turnovers. Is there like. I don't think Golden State could beat okc. I think Golden State would beat Houston. I don't Houston shootings better today than three months ago. I still don't trust them in a big playoff spot. Oklahoma City to me is they're like Cleveland the last couple of years. They're going to win playoff series. They're just too good. They got too many good players, too good of a coach. Go deep dive on Oklahoma City. And because I look at Them, and I think they have two or three things that really matter. They're well coached, a dominant score. So they know late in games, in a playoff game, here's where the ball goes that is so important. The great teams all have that. Denver had it with Jokic and generally, like the spurs, you'll have a second guy in Tony Parker. If Duncan gets doubled, it's great to have two. And if Holmgren's healthy, I trust him at a big spot hitting a shot. He's a great player. So they have an identifiable star and a costar. They're well coached. They play real defense. They're not. They're young, but they're not inexperienced like these guys have played in big colleges. Big, big moments. I think they're a Western Conference finals team. I don't. I mean, I would take the Lakers over them and I don't feel like I'm being a homer. I would just take LeBron and Luka and the possessions and a half and a game. What do you think their journey looks like in the postseason?
- [35:18]
Jason Timp
So their defense, I'm a hundred percent sold on, will perform really well. The only team that I'm worried about them defensively against is the Lakers, because LeBron and Luca attacking their smaller perimeter players. Their Oklahoma City's defense is nearly perfectly constructed. They're incredibly fast on the perimeter. And Mark Dagol has built their scheme towards forward aggression and passing lanes to try to build, to force turnovers. It's optimized toward. Towards the type of personnel they have. They also have rim protection and Chet Holmgren, which is a very important part of success in the playoffs. And then they have a couple of different types of defenders that are especially valuable. So for instance, Lou Dort is one of the very best guys in the league that you can throw against a big star forward. And like, like there's just so many of them in the Western Conference, whether it's Luka and LeBron or it's literally Kawhi Leonard or it's Kevin Durant or whoever it is you're playing. There's all these star forwards. He's a great option. Isaiah Hartenstein has come kind of come to the surface as like a guy they use for the bigger power players. And he's had a lot of.
- [36:21]
Colin Cowherd
By the way, the Knicks have missed him defensively, no question.
- [36:26]
Jason Timp
Yeah, he. His ability to defend in a bunch of different types of coverages, but specifically to handle the big, strong, bully ball types of players has been a huge asset to that Thunder defense. The only weakness I See, in the Thunder defense is size as an aggregate thing, particularly on the perimeter. And it manifests in bad defensive rebounding, which has been a consistent thing they've struggled with over the years. And then that's where I can see some vulnerability, where it's like, okay, you put Lou Dort on Luka great. Who's guarding LeBron, that there's just nobody else on the roster that can make LeBron feel really all that uncomfortable. So I think that's what we're saying. The offensive end is where I see some cracks in the armor in the sense that they thrive in transition off the strength of their defense. But what happens if there's a team that takes really good care of the basketball and controls pace and keeps OKC trapped in the half court? And it's a big, high leverage playoff series where you need J Dub and Chet and Dort and these guys to be effective offensively. And again, I want to be clear, I'm not trying to nitpick here because we are, I should be clear. We are nitpicking here because this is the one seed in the Western Conference. As I agree with you, I would be stunned if they didn't make it to the conference finals. But in the conference finals context, if they faced a Denver or a Lakers, I think it's at least worth mentioning that those teams would be dramatically more experienced.
- [37:48]
Colin Cowherd
Yes.
- [37:48]
Jason Timp
And dramatically bigger on the perimeter.
- [37:51]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah.
- [37:51]
Jason Timp
One last thing I'll say about it. They do rely heavily on Shay, Gilders, Alexander pull up shooting when things go south for them offensively. In those situations, I like a team of a bunch of six, eight, six, nine guys that have long arms to contest, and that's something where I could see that being a valuable, a value. So I think they deserve to be the favorite. But yeah, I'm, I'm with you to where, like, if I saw the Lakers and the Thunder about to play in a Western Conference finals, it'd be really hard for me to not pick la.
- [38:21]
Colin Cowherd
I think Adam Silver is a good commissioner. I, I thought when I had him on, I thought he overreacted a little to Kevin Durant, to the Warriors. And my take is, well, Ohtani came to the Dodgers. It's been great for Ohtani, Great for the Dodgers, great for Fox, great for baseball. People like trades, people like stars and big brands. Hard bottom Michigan, there was no downside. Yeah, Michigan was going to throttle people and you'd have more blowouts in the Big Ten. So what? And so they overreacted and they, you know, they've now created this environment where, you know, aprons. It's hard. It's like you can't, you'll never duplicate. Unless you hit on every draft pick for four years, you'll never duplicate the Celtics roster. Like it's just, you can't, you can't have eight good players. It doesn't work that way. And my take is people like trades, they don't mind dynasties. And Kevin Durant was bound to not get along with Draymond Green. So it wasn't going to be an eight year run. It was three years. They wore each other out. It was Shaq and Kobe. It was bound not to work forever. But I've talked about this before, is that there are certain unsolvable things. You can go to a therapist, I can go to a therapist. There's a basic foundational personality I have based on my childhood that you're not going to change. I can get better, but I am what I am. And same, you know, change is hard when you, when you want help and want to change, it's impossible if you don't. So we are kind of at our core sort of what we are. And I think there are certain things. You can't get away from the violence in football or ufc. You can't get away from the lack of urgency in baseball. And I don't think you can avoid tanking because. And the reason being is because in basketball, and this is not true with other sports, in basketball you could identify at 13 years old. Kobe, LeBron, WEMBY. The spurs went on a three year mission to get Wemby. They saw that that's just not the way it works in football. Lamar Jackson, we were arguing after he was drafted, can he play quarterback? You know, Mahomes couldn't win in college. Josh Allen, he's overrated and wild in basketball. Men and women, freshman year of high school, it's defined. That player's different. That UConn girl that dominates sixth grade basketball. It's like, oh, that's the best sixth grade basketball player we've ever seen. So. And my take is basketball. The ability to spot transformational talent so early. It's not a singular year. Tank people see it. They don't have to re sign players. They can move off players that the NBA should just be like, listen, if, if we're, if there's a great player every year and a different team gets the great player, it's unavoidable and it's not terrible for the league. Like Cooper Flag probably saved Charlotte. I mean literally if he goes there, it's like, okay, now, Lamelo ball, Cooper Fleck. That's a watch. Like, that's a watch on television. My take is the NBA spends so much time paralyzed by tanking and trades, it's like football violence. Just. Just do the best you can. You can't avoid it. What say you?
- [41:37]
Jason Timp
Yeah, I like. I like that you. You say it's an unavoidable piece of it. I'd say the same thing about the super teams and the willingness of players to try to partner up and in a one team becoming so powerful that they present a talent mismatch to everyone else. Your point about Boston, like, this is post KD and Steph, it happened again. And you know how it happened. The league at large undervalued Drew Holiday and Chris Hop Sportzingis. That's not on Brad Stevens. That's not Brad Stevens fault. That's the other 29 GMs fault that they were like, sure, Brad wants to pay for Chris Ops. Let him. Well, okay, well, now he's a problem. Okay, so it's like, now they have five $30 million players. And. And I also just generally think that, like, I mean, to your point, that there's. There's five, six teams this year that have a really good chance to win, even with Boston being the way that they are. So, like, I. I don't think. I think it makes for interesting storylines. As far as the tanking piece goes, it's even more unavoidable when you factor in just basic stuff, which is like, if it's game 65 and we don't have a chance to make it to the playoffs, I shouldn't be playing my vets. I should be playing my young players. Yeah, it's no different than if you're like, hey, you know what? I don't need to see Andy Dalton start in week 15. I'd rather see my third round pick get a chance to go out there and see what he can do. Let him get the reps, let him learn how to play. And so at a certain point, like, even if you disincentivized it through the draft, you would never be able to stop a team from looking at the situation and going, this season's over. We need to give our young guys the keys, and that's going to lead to a lesser basketball product. I would say that, generally speaking, the basketball gods will reward the teams and the franchises that play serious basketball. Meaning, like, you'll see, OKC did this a couple years ago where it's like, yeah, they're playing their younger players, they're load managing Shea, but they're also teaching those kids to play damn good basketball.
- [43:32]
Colin Cowherd
Chicago right now is playing their arsenal.
- [43:34]
Jason Timp
Yeah, that is a, that is a foundation. What Chicago is doing right now is a foundational part to any hope they have of being good in the future. If you practice playing bad basketball, you'll be a bad basketball team. And so the way I look at it is like, to your point, you'll never be able to stop tanking because it's, it's impossible to stop teams from even prioritizing younger players. Minutes. But inevitably, organizations behaving like losers tend to remain losers in organization. Like, here go the Kings again. They had that one season. But it's like, it turns out that even a really good year from Dear and Fox and, and from Malik Monk and from Demonis Sabonis is not enough to overcome organizational incompetence. Like, at the end of the day, you can't stop bad from being bad. So stop trying to legislate it out, if that makes sense.
- [44:27]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah, I mean, I, I look at teams like Utah and I know their record isn't good, but I, I love their gm. I think they have an excellent young coach and they play hard and they're just going to get better with all those draft picks. They're probably three years behind okc. So if they land Cooper Flag, and I think they have the best percentage now, they're tied. If Utah got Cooper Flag, that's a playoff team potentially in a year like, that's a really good basketball team. Obviously, if Wemby got him in San Antonio. But it's like, I look at it and I think if Washington got Cooper Flag, oh, I feel so bad for Cooper Flag. If Utah got Cooper Flag. To your point, I'd be like, that kid hit a home run. He's going to do really, really well. No immediate pressure. Danny Ainge, great young coach, nice little supporting players. They just don't have a guy.
- [45:13]
Jason Timp
I love him next to Walker Kessler, too.
- [45:15]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah, Walker Kessler is really a nice player. In fact, the Lakers were interested in him about trade deadline.
- [45:20]
Jason Timp
If they would have got him, I would have been talking very reckless on your show.
- [45:26]
Colin Cowherd
He's a good player. The volume.
- [45:34]
Jeremy Hobson
We live in a divided country and our media couldn't be more polarizing. That's why we started the Middle with Jeremy Hobson. It's about bringing voices not from the extremes, but from the vast middle into the national conversation. Each week we hear from ordinary Americans, from all over the country. And when you subscribe to the Middle, you also get an episode each week called One Thing Trump did that focuses on just one item from the avalanche of news. Listen to the Middle with Jeremy Hobson on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [46:06]
Gilbert King
Something unexpected happened after Jeremy Scott confessed to killing Michelle Schofield in Bone Valley Season one.
- [46:13]
Jeremy Scott
Every time I hear about my dad.
- [46:15]
Colin Cowherd
Is, oh, he's a killer.
- [46:16]
Jeremy Scott
He's just straight evil.
- [46:18]
Gilbert King
I was becoming the bridge between between Jeremy Scott and the son he'd never known.
- [46:23]
Jeremy Scott
At the end of the day, I'm literally a son of a killer.
- [46:25]
Gilbert King
Listen to new episodes of bone Valley Season 2, starting April 9 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.