← The Herd with Colin Cowherd
The Herd with Colin Cowherd
Colin Cowherd Podcast - Reaction to Rory McIlory winning The Masters, Shedeur Sanders to Saints?
01:00:31
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- [00:00]
American Express Representative
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- [00:15]
Colin Cowherd
This is so good.
- [00:16]
American Express Representative
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Jeremy Hobson
Divided country, and our media couldn't be more polarizing. That's why we started the Middle with Jeremy Hobson. It's about bringing voices, not from the extremes, but from the vast middle, into the national conversation. Each week we hear from ordinary Americans from all over the country. And when you subscribe to the Middle, you also get an episode each week called One Thing Trump did that focuses on just one item from the avalanche of news. Listen to the Middle with Jeremy Hobson on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [01:00]
Greg Rosenthal
What's up, everyone? It's Greg Rosenthal, and I'm teaming up with the King of Spring, Daniel Jeremiah. He requires me to say that we're going to be bringing you 40s and free agents, the only podcast you'll need this NFL draft season. From DJs, mock drafts to my top 101 free agents, we'll have it covered for you with all new episodes every Thursday, keeping you up to date as we head to the NFL Draft. Listen to 40s and free agents on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.
- [01:30]
Julie Stewart-Banks
What's up, everyone? Julie Swerbinks here, along with former NHL player Nate Thompson.
- [01:34]
Nate Thompson
We're doing a new podcast together.
- [01:36]
John Middlekoff
Here we go.
- [01:37]
Julie Stewart-Banks
The name Energy Line with Nate and jsb.
- [01:40]
Nate Thompson
Each week we'll get together and talk about hockey life. All topics are fair game, right?
- [01:46]
Julie Stewart-Banks
Exactly. And you'll never know who will drop by to join us.
- [01:49]
Nate Thompson
Julie is pretty well connected. She has text threads going that you wouldn't believe.
- [01:54]
Julie Stewart-Banks
Listen to Energy Line with Nate and jsb on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [02:03]
Colin Cowherd
The Volume. All right, welcome in. I'm off vacay, and I don't. I can't remember the last two days of a golf tournament where I was more emotionally vested in a golfer than Rory McElroy and I wasn't rooting against Justin Rose. Or Bryson DeChambeau, who I think has done an incredible 180 rehab of his brand, where he was unlikable and now is incredibly likable, or at least more likable. But I was thinking about this John. John Middlekoff FORMER NFL SCOUT three and out Part of the volume is that what makes Rory. We know he's a sensational talent, but he's got a Phil Mickelson quality where you can, you can see him buckle. You can see, I mean, when he takes that wedge from a buck 25 out and puts it in the water in the creek, you're like, bro, I hit my irons great. Saturday at Skokie Country Club in Chicago Suburb. Like, I, I. What is going on? And I think what finds him, what, what makes Rory so likable is that he is vulnerable and he just has, you know, four double bogeys, short wedge shot in the creek. I think that just makes him incredibly watchable.
- [03:28]
John Middlekoff
Yeah, I think, you know, I think every great golfer definitely in my life, which I've been watching for almost 30 years now. So, like, the Tiger Phil era is kind of defined by their greatness or disasters in majors.
- [03:46]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah.
- [03:46]
John Middlekoff
You know, when I was a kid, Greg Norman, it was a big deal. Like, have a shark polo when I was a kid, wear him to school.
- [03:52]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah.
- [03:52]
John Middlekoff
When you think Greg Norman, you think a guy that unravels and fails. You know, Phil is weird because he's one of the greatest players in the history of the Sport. He's won six majors. He's won the Masters three times. He's won 45 tournaments. But you remember him a lot of times for finishing second.
- [04:07]
Colin Cowherd
Yes.
- [04:08]
John Middlekoff
To Payne Stewart. He blasted out of bounds at wingfoot in the mid 2000, taking big.
- [04:13]
Colin Cowherd
He doesn't need to.
- [04:14]
John Middlekoff
And he's like that in life. Right. When he, when he made the comments about the Saudis after he took their $200 million. You know, Rory's this kind of enigma because. And I thought today actually symbolize his entire career.
- [04:25]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah.
- [04:25]
John Middlekoff
I mean, he had a couple shots that are like the most incredible shots in the history of Masters. He hooked a seven iron around a tree to five feet on 15. And then he, and then he, and then he missed the putt. And then he missed the putt, you know, and I can't. You know, Tiger's got this torn Achilles. He's like a. He's like a 1970s NFL player on his, on his bed with 18 million injuries. Can you imagine Tiger watching this tournament and thinking, you know, Tiger was actually pretty Boring as a champion because he didn't screw up. What was the famous quote like? Dumb loses more than smart wins. Yeah, Tiger was very conservative. You know, Rory dunks into the water. He bogeys 18 to send it to a playoff. After he's right in the middle of the fairway, 330 yards. Yeah, I don't know where you stood. I thought the emotional roller coaster of that three and a half hours. How could he win in, you know, in extra hole? I thought he was going to lose, Colin. I didn't, I, I didn't have any faith he was going to win in extra holes because emotionally, put yourself in his shoes. He had to be gutted to try to gather himself and keep his heart rate down. He probably wanted to cry.
- [05:26]
Colin Cowherd
Well, it's funny because Phil Mickelson got himself into trouble because he was overly aggressive, but. And he would buckle, but it was a different kind. Rory loses confidence. You can see it. And there are times on that wedge you're like, oh, he just lost confidence. He said it a little bit on the green jacket ceremony in the room, which I thought was really emotional. But yeah, I just, I think, you know, Tiger was such a great leader. Like he never lost leads. If Tiger led by five strokes going into Sunday, it was over. There was one U.S. open against Rocco Mediate, which I found that was stirring with Tiger. Also his last Masters win, where he was an older golfer, was stirring and really emotional.
- [06:15]
John Middlekoff
Well, Colin, oh, eight, was stirring with Rocco because he had a torn ACL and a broken leg. He was healthy. But. Yeah, I know what you mean.
- [06:24]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah. And I mean, I just thought the whole spectacle, it was perfect weather. Amen corner. Just the galleries or the patrons, the intensity, you know, I kept thinking to myself, so Bryson DeChambeau was. DeChambles his. I mean, he had a distance issue all weekend, but he was putting great until Sunday. And it was interesting when they interviewed him afterwards, he took a little shot, a little projection when he said, you know, I don't remember the Sunday greens being that fast because he was really off now. He all weekend had sort of a distance issue, like he was long or short, but I, but I. His putting kept him close, whereas Rory's wedge and Rory's irons were either remarkable or mediocre. Rory today, frankly. Think about how good Rory is. He had one of the worst shots ever. The wedge into the creek. He blew a four stroke lead. He hit a couple of putts, but he was hit and miss off the tee. He. You didn't know exactly what you were getting from Rory off the tee and yet he won. I mean, how damn good do you have to be if you just, if I just told you what his round was rough off the tee, one of the worst shots ever. Gags a lead, you wouldn't think he'd win.
- [07:51]
John Middlekoff
Well, I thought, I mean Colin, he, he blew a, he had a two shot lead coming in today. He was down one shot after two holes. I mean it felt like, is this going to be Greg Norman, John Vanderbilt, immediately, honestly, you felt bad for him. You're like, how can this happen? But he had a couple shots today that I would say were Phil like over trees?
- [08:11]
Colin Cowherd
Yes.
- [08:11]
John Middlekoff
I mean he had one shot over a tree. Oh, the bender around the tree. Another shot over tree from the left side. He had another shot on the right side. He did get a little lucky. I mean one thing with Augusta, you can't really hit it out of bounds. You just. There's tree trouble, but it's not, there's no rough, so you can spray it a little bit and there's just. The golf gods are on your side. You're still going to be okay. So the golf gods are on his side. Through the first three rounds he was the best player in the tournament by a mile. Bryson yesterday hit that like hundred foot putt instead of being down 3, down 2 on 18. But he didn't even play that well yesterday where Rory shot 66, 66 Friday and Saturday and on Friday and on Thursday, Rory's four under heading into 15, hits it on two, chips it into the water. So he kind of unravels at the end. But he had played brilliantly and it just shows you that like to me, one thing that's fascinating about Rory and I always admire the Michael Jordan's, the Brady's, even the young version of Mahomes. When you win, you win big, you make all the money and you just keep grinding because you're addicted to the competition. The Tiger was notorious for this, right? Stevie Williams as caddy would be like, you know, we'd win and Tiger would call me two days later and be like, I'll meet you at the range at 6 in the morning, Stevie, like take the week off. And now that this gets the monkey office. Roy had already won twice this year. He won at pebble and he won the players. Now he's won the Masters. He's playing by far the best in the world. He's better than Scotty's off, you know, Bryson really, he's outplayed Bryson twice. He screwed up last Year in the putts at Pinehurst. If Rory keeps the pedal of the medal, he might not win every major, but he could win like six, seven times. He could have a historic year. You do wonder. Watch the way he broke down. Is he just going to take like a month to just like not do anything? Wouldn't blame him. But if he keeps it down like Jordan or Tiger or Brady Wood, he, he's the best player in the world right now by, by a pretty wide margin, I think.
- [10:01]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah, and I thought Bryson dechambell, his game is just, you know, listen, I like golf. I played it this weekend. I, I, I'm, How'd you play? I, I am hitting my irons the last year as well as I can hit him. Just as well as I can hit him.
- [10:19]
John Middlekoff
You need to give Bryson a lesson.
- [10:21]
Colin Cowherd
His game feels loose, Bryce. I mean, he, he didn't, he was struggling getting the ball in the fairway. His wedges were hit and miss. He got it in the drink twice today. Now, his putting saved him over the weekend, but today when his putting went, it really unveiled the truth about his game, is the putting kept him around. He mentioned it after the round. His game is just not right.
- [10:48]
John Middlekoff
Well, I think the old adage is you can talk to a fade, a draw or hook doesn't listen. And when you play that draw or hook one, it goes farther and it goes harder. And I know he's like, all the greens were harder. Bryson, the greens at the Masters have been the same since, you know, Arnold Palmer was playing in the 50s. They're hard, they're firm. Your irons weren't even close. And he plays this power draw, which today turned in, last couple of days turned into a hook. He is, you know, the thing with Bryson, he's clearly mellowed out. And the YouTube thing has changed his world. If he was a football player, I mean, this guy is a blue chip out of high school, out of college, like he has an elite talent, but he is, he messes with all sorts of weird shit. I mean, he's got special made clubs.
- [11:32]
Colin Cowherd
Have you seen a brand?
- [11:34]
John Middlekoff
He's a different cat.
- [11:35]
Colin Cowherd
Wikipedia. Bryson DeChambeau's clubs. I was reading it over the weekend called 3D. I mean, he doesn't, he uses stuff nobody else has used. He's been very contrarian. I mean, I thought it was funny when they came out today. The buildup was like a Tyson fight. So DeChambeau comes out, he's all gladiator and, you know, they're both power players, but Rory plays fast. And DeChambeau has more pace. And, you know, like, Jim Nance talked about this. He said, you know, putting these two together is an advantage, maybe for Bryson, because he'll try to slow. You know, the slower player can irk the faster player. And Rory likes to get up, hit, and go. I find Rory very easy to watch. He's the antithesis of, like, Sergio Garcia in his prime, where you just. It was irritating to watch him. So Bryson's not that slow, but Rory just gets up, hits it. And again, the thing with Rory is just how remarkable he is as a talent to win today. I mean, he is. I think he had four double bogeys. I don't know.
- [12:38]
John Middlekoff
It's never happened before in the history of the master. Stadler had three once and won it in 82. That was the only time anyone had three. The double bogey for normal human beings happens a lot. For pro golfers, it does not happen very often, especially in a major. It can. One can sink you the.
- [12:54]
Colin Cowherd
I thought it was interesting on 18, which is the narrowest tee shot. So here was Rory. He put himself in a position. That's where I was on. So I flew in. So I watched every shot the last two days, and I was watching, you know, that my plane landed basically as it at LAX as the tournament ended. So Masters app is amazing. I watched every shot, just fantastic. But that I found myself on the 18th because there was a lot of tension during the last two days. But on Saturday, it's kind of like, okay, you can miss shots. It's fine. When he stepped up on 18 and he delivered a beauty, I mean, he just crushed it. And I felt like, okay, it's his. And then in typical Rory fashion, he ends up going, you know, to a playoff. Going into the playoff, I kind of felt like Justin Rose was going to win it.
- [13:51]
John Middlekoff
Do you get nervous anymore? Anything you do in life, like, often you get nervous.
- [13:56]
Colin Cowherd
I don't.
- [13:58]
John Middlekoff
What would it take for you to get nervous, you think, like, having to, like, call when you're calling the super bowl or. I mean, something that you. But it'd have to be something that you can actually, you know, feel comfortable doing.
- [14:08]
Colin Cowherd
Not me. I get nervous for my kids. I get nervous. It's the only sport that I get nervous is golf. And I felt that because, like, I loved Phil Mickelson, and there's something about the vulnerability of Rory that just connects with me. I've been rooting for him, and this is not anti anybody else. I was rooting for him all weekend.
- [14:30]
John Middlekoff
Well, once. Once Rose basically split the fairway in extra holes. You're looking at Rory and you're thinking, how can you control your heart rate right now? Because you know he's. Rose has no pressure on him. If I crumble, I'm going to be viewed as. Honestly, it would have felt bigger than Greg Norman because you had unraveled, taken the lead. Unraveled, taking the lead. Unraveled, taking the lead. It's. I would say it was kind of an unlike a situation. I've been watching golf for a long time. I don't ever remember around where a guy unravels, takes the lead, unravels, takes the lead and then has a chance to win it. And then Bogey's 18 like he did. I thought if Roy snaps it into the trees or overcuts it into the trees, it's very understandable. And then the moment he split the fairway, I thought, okay, this. He does have, obviously Phil as well. I mean, Phil won a major a couple years ago as a 51 year old. These guys have. I think we underrate, especially Phil and Rory, because Tiger suck so much of the energy out. Like, I think Brady did this with Peyton. Like, Peyton's got a lot of resolve to him as well, you know. Right. Rory and Phil. And then when he won it, he almost felt like usually guys raise their hands up or whatever. Roy's hit the ground and cried.
- [15:35]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah.
- [15:35]
John Middlekoff
Almost like clearly a weight had been lifted off his entire career. That's where I get a little nervous that like, does this, does he maintain this? Because how could the same drive. Because of the pressure. And this has been a decade running. And think of the situations that have happened. I mean, just last year, year losing to Bryson like he did now, you just wonder like, can he sustain this? And like you talked about the, the Bryson, Rory thing. I think what's pretty special about football is if you're in the same conference as your foe. You know, Peyton and Brady were both in the afc. Well, if you both win the division, you're going to automatically play each other every year. And if your teams are good, you're going to play each other in the playoffs every, every a lot. We get that with Josh Allen and Patrick Mahomes in golf, how often. We never really got Tiger, Phil. It just never happened. Right. In the biggest tournaments yet, we've got Rory Bryson twice in six months. It's now it didn't quite play out as good as the last time, but it does feel like I would expect this wouldn't shock Me, if we got this a couple more times. I mean, this is. It was just really cool. Even if it didn't live up to the billing. Like you said, it. It felt like. Like Dana White should have been walking right behind him. Right. The hype. And then. And then Bryson fell off. But Rory, you just felt like the fight was still going. He's just fighting some other guy. Yeah, that was. I mean, I think we've seen some crazy Masters. Colin, That's. That's gotta be one of the more riveting multiple stretches of couple hours we've ever seen.
- [16:58]
Colin Cowherd
Well, a year ago, I mean, we saw Jon Rahm really struggle. He, you know, he took that Liv money and. Which is fine. I defended live guys forever.
- [17:06]
John Middlekoff
Same.
- [17:07]
Colin Cowherd
I mean, again, our government is in bed with the Saudis. Everybody is. There's a difference between blaming and judging. I didn't blame any of the guys. If you want to be judgy on him, go for it. But you'd have taken the money, too. It's like Chris Rock's joke. Men are as loyal as their options. If somebody offers you 130 million, you can play half the tournaments. You're going to do it. I did think it was interesting on, like Thursday and Friday, you couldn't find Bryson DeChambeau. It was like, are you guys going to put him on television? And it was like, come on, guys. There is still. Let's. Let's talk about this sort of division between, you know, the Masters and cbs. It's the longest running broadcast partnership in sports. It's like NBC and the Olympics, CBS and the Masters. How intense do you think the division is? Obviously, like on Thursday and Friday, it was like, can we, can we show Bryson to shamble here? Folks, this is getting ridiculous. How intense do you think and ugly do you think the division is between the PGA and Live still?
- [18:07]
John Middlekoff
I think it's pretty bad. And I think, you know, CBS and NBC, their loyalty to the PGA Tour, I mean, they've been in business with them forever, right? I mean, specifically the PGA Tour. Obviously, CBS has the Masters, but CBS calls. I don't know how many PGA Tour events during the year. I'd guess 15. You know, and I think the problem is you're dealing with a group that. I mean, Yasser has a. Access to a piggy bank that's bigger than any piggy bank in the history of the world. They got trillions of dollars. And so, yeah, it's like they could lose a billion dollars. They don't even notice it. It'd be like someone losing 10 bucks. And I think the PGA Tour, you know, Tiger's very involved. Well, where's his ego? And his pride is based on the history of the PGA Tour. That's what made him a billionaire and famous. And I think there are just a lot of egos, a lot of money on the line. And I think the tour could get very lucky that some of these guys, like no one, you know, Fox just did business with Liv and they're on Fox Sports 1, and I think they put the Doral Tournament. But people just aren't watching because anytime you start something new, it's hard to get people to gravitate. I don't care who you bring over. I mean, Bryson gets more people watching on YouTube. And I just think there's a lot of bitterness. There's a lot of money on the line. Some of the guys on the tour that didn't leave are bitter because those guys, you know, Bryson got $200 million, and I didn't get any. So I don't think they're any closer. I mean, I've heard them talk about this for two years now, and there's no light at the end of the tunnel because they're both balking and balking and balking. And I think Liv goes, well, we have some demands if you're going to take our money. And I don't blame them. I think Liv wants to do a deal with the PGA Tour, but they also don't want their idea. That was Liv in this team golf, which. Golf's an individual sport, just like tennis. It doesn't mean occasionally there's a tennis tournament. I forget the Davis cup, where you play doubles, just like there's a Ryder Cup. We like watching golf to watch Pete Sampras play, Andre Agassi, to watch Tiger woods play Ernie Ells and Phil Mickelson. One on one. That's what golf is. And I think Liv and their money loves their idea, which, again, I understand, sticking to an idea. The PGA Tour wants no part of it, and their players aren't going to agree to a deal that, like, well, we got to play in seven team tournaments. Where they got going for them is, I do think, you know, at least there have been articles and rumors that guys like Bryson and Brooks miss being in the bright lights.
- [20:26]
Colin Cowherd
Sure.
- [20:26]
John Middlekoff
And there's something that live can't bring to the table. So when their contracts end and they made hundreds of, they could just come back.
- [20:33]
Colin Cowherd
Right.
- [20:34]
John Middlekoff
And let's face it, if you could do a draft right, of the PGA Tour, could pick one person and one person only, they wouldn't even hesitate. It'd be Bryson. And if none of the other guys ever came back rom multiple time major champion Dustin Johnson, Brooks Kepler, I don't think it would be that big a deal. But Bryson is. I think they would take him. And you can't convince me that Bryson. You got to let him keep doing his YouTube stuff, just acquiesce. The world's change. Let him do his YouTube stuff, let him play on the PGA Tour, and I think everything would be fine. I think he's the key pretty clearly because he's not going away. He loves golf. Well, there's only driven. He's the guy now.
- [21:10]
Colin Cowherd
At any one point in my life, you know, I've said this about all sports, baseball especially. Don't listen to purists. You got them. Don't listen to purists. Speed the game up, you know, make the bases larger, take away the defensive shift. Don't become analytic, you know, dependent. Like. Like. Yeah, so. And I feel like golf. And any one time in my life, there have been three golfers I was really interested in. And right now, the four guys, if they're on that I'm really interested in are Rory Koepka, Bryson DeChambeau and Dustin Johnson. There's a bunch. Scotty Scheffler doesn't do it for me. I know he's great. Doesn't do anything. You know, Bubba Watson had a role. He doesn't do anything for me. So it just. They're very. It's always been about three guys, four guys. Even in the Arnie and Jack days, there was, you know, there were a couple of players, maybe Elite Trevino mixed in there, Johnny Miller for a few years, but Tom Weiskopf, you know, Tom Kite weren't moving the needle. So I kind of look at it like I thought this weekend was the very best of golf. You got the Masters and the undulating chorus, which is just. And it's a picture. It's literally. It's literally a picture. It's a postcard. And then you had. As Jim Nance said, this is a. A journey and an odyssey in one day for Rory McElroy. I just thought it gave you everything I got. I thought it gave you bad shots, blown leads, buckling, picturesque tradition. And I will say this. Bryson dechambeauty, He. His mood changed by about the fifth hole. You. I mean, honestly, you could see him then he started hurrying up and he tends to have a slower pace. Like he started. It was at one Point. One of the announcers said, like, he's just. He sort of lost his personality. He's lost it. You could just sense he was getting really frustrated. And. I don't know, I just thought it was the best final round I can remember. I. I kept thinking about Rocco mediate, Tiger Woods, U.S. open. That's what kept flashing in my head.
- [23:14]
John Middlekoff
I actually think the Masters has really, really benefited the last couple years from live because these guys only get back together four times a year. And because of the calendar, it's the first time they get back together, and this is by far the biggest tournament of the year.
- [23:28]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah.
- [23:28]
John Middlekoff
So it's the perfect combination. And like you said, I mean, the weather, the last couple days just look picturesque. Having the superstars, the leaderboard was incredible. I just think that this tournament, in a weird way, I hate live because it just. It's made my life as just someone that wants to watch all these guys play together. Like you said, I don't care that who makes what. I just want to see all these guys play together. And it's separated them, but it's made this weekend, specifically the last couple years, I would say it's. It's put it on steroids, and it's. It's hard even for the other majors to quite feel like this one, because this one is just. The Masters has always been big. It's. You know, every human being, whether you don't even like golf, knows the green jacket. Tiger took it to another level. I do think, though, the last couple years, with them all getting back together, it feels like there's. Now Bryson is kind of. I mean, last year he had the lead after a couple rounds. He's been a major factor these last couple years at the Masters has added an element to this tournament that, you know, without Tiger, it's just hard. I mean, the golf. This isn't football. I mean, football wouldn't be big enough. I remember being a kid, USFL tried to take away Steve Young and Bruce Smith and Jim Kelly. Like, you need. You only have 10, 15, 20 guys that really matter in golf. You probably only got five or six.
- [24:42]
Colin Cowherd
Yes.
- [24:42]
John Middlekoff
I can't lose two of them. Right. And tennis was very dependent on Federer, Joker and Nadal for basically 15, 20 years.
- [24:49]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah.
- [24:49]
John Middlekoff
When I was a kid, it was Sampers and Agassi, and that was kind of it.
- [24:52]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah.
- [24:52]
John Middlekoff
And it's like golf is not big enough to handle this divide, but the majors don't really care because their Masters, in business with the Masters, it works for them.
- [25:01]
Colin Cowherd
Have you ever Seen what you win when you win the Master. So the purse this year was 4.2 million. You get the jacket, lifetime membership, invitation forever. You get all these exclusive places, you know, that you can, you know, only a handful of you got to use the locker room of champions, which is just all time great. But it's one of the, it's, it's. I think the only thing to me that compares to the Masters is when the US Open is at pebble beach, where I'm literally watching for the course. And Pinehurst is great, but I'm not watching for Pinehurst. Pebble Beach, US Opens feel different. British Open feels different. St. Andrews and I think the Masters, those three tournament, PGA Championship to me just doesn't, you know, again, if I'm around. But it was interesting. So I'm watching Thursday and Friday on vacation and I went and golf Saturday. I was just like, oh, I'm into this beautiful day, by the way, 50 degrees. Oh, it was just beautiful day in the suburbs of Chicago. But it was just one of those things where I think golf, even though you would argue it's not in a good place, it's got a lot of alphas. There's a little tension between all of them. I mean, Koepka and Bryson DeChambeau aren't tight that you can sense. It's pretty palpable. You can sense the tension between some of these guys because they're all really guys guys. They're all very male, right. And I think, I don't know, I just watched this weekend and I thought to myself, golf's in a really good place at these master at these majors.
- [26:39]
John Middlekoff
Why? I know, you know, living in Arizona, a lot of pros live here. And you know, I play golf at TPC where a lot of these guys practice. The LIV financial boom for the PGA Tour. And these guys has been pretty incredible for the business. I mean, the top guys have always been rich, from Arnold Palmer to Jack to Tiger. But you know, my wife was showing an open house a couple weeks ago with one of her colleagues. There was like four or five million dollars. And the people looking at the open house and the guy that was showing it is in the golf world and knows these people, introduces himself and realizes it's the wife of one of the caddies and she was looking for, for another caddy's wife. These are four or five million dollar houses, the caddies. And this is not, you know, Rory's caddy. This is a guy probably somewhere 40 to 60 in the world. These guys, I mean, Bryson or Rory Netjets. You see, the 60th guy ain't going to the commercial airport. So the, the wealth on the golf tour right now has never been top down. It's an incredible time to be involved as a high end top 100 golfer. You are an immediate millionaire. And your caddy's doing well.
- [27:43]
Colin Cowherd
Come on, your caddy. And also with Bryson being a YouTube sensation, everybody now understands there's influencer potential putting your stuff on YouTube. So showing a little personality is okay. So I, I think it's, it's, you know, we, they call them influencers. I think Bryson's an influencer. Like he has the ability, like a Conor McGregor in his prime that if Conor was on the card, I would just go to. I took my wife to two UFC cards. So I thought it was a great weekend. Stephanie's Places is a new series on espn. Gives you all the access to some of the biggest WWE Superstars. Stephanie McMahon does a great job and I know Stephanie great job of bringing out the best stories from CM Punk, Cody Rhodes, Triple H, who's a great guy, and many more. So in this week's episode comes out Wednesday, Stephanie sits down with Steve Austin at his ranch in Nevada and talk about his post WWE life. So if you haven't checked out this episode of Stephanie's Places yet, you can find this series on ESPN streaming right now. The episodes are fast, they're fun. You really get inside stuff you've never seen before. It's some of the biggest stars from the wwe. Three episodes are out right now. Seven more episodes are coming up.
- [29:03]
American Express Representative
With Amex Gold, you get up to $100 back annually on eligible purchases at resi restaurants.
- [29:08]
Jeremy Hobson
So party of two, right this way.
- [29:10]
American Express Representative
Is music to your ears. That's the powerful backing of American Express enrollment required terms apply. Learn more@american express.com With AmEx, we live.
- [29:20]
Jeremy Hobson
In a divided country.
- [29:21]
Colin Cowherd
I am a lifelong Republican with all.
- [29:23]
Jeremy Hobson
Kinds of different people.
- [29:25]
John Middlekoff
You know, I'm a mother, I'm a grandmother.
- [29:28]
Jeremy Hobson
That's why we started the Middle with Jeremy Hobson. It's about bringing voices not from the extremes, but from the vast middle into the national conversation.
- [29:36]
Colin Cowherd
Anna, I'm calling from Las Vegas.
- [29:38]
Jeremy Hobson
Each week we bring together an all star panel. Mark Cuban, so great to have you on the middle.
- [29:43]
John Middlekoff
Thanks for having me.
- [29:43]
Colin Cowherd
Jeremy.
- [29:44]
Jeremy Hobson
Neil Degrasse Tyson, welcome to the Middle.
- [29:46]
Nate Thompson
Thanks for having me.
- [29:47]
Jeremy Hobson
And hear from ordinary Americans from all over the country on the most important issues.
- [29:51]
Colin Cowherd
Hi, my name is Venkat. I'm calling you from Atlanta, Georgia.
- [29:55]
Jeremy Hobson
And when you subscribe to the Middle, you also get an episode each week called One Thing Trump did that focuses on just one item from the avalanche of news.
- [30:04]
Colin Cowherd
We should be examining what our government spends its money on and are these jobs necessary and what are we doing here? But that doesn't seem to be what we're doing in this situation.
- [30:12]
Jeremy Hobson
Listen to the Middle with Jeremy Hobson on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [30:18]
Greg Rosenthal
What's up, everyone? It's Greg Rosenthal, and I'm teaming up with the King of Spring, Daniel Jeremiah. He requires me to say that we're going to be bringing you 40s and free agents, the only podcast you'll need this NFL Draft season season. From DJs mock drafts to my top 101, free agents will have it covered for you, with all new episodes every Thursday keeping you up to date as we head to the NFL Draft. Listen to 40s and free agents on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.
- [30:47]
Julie Stewart-Banks
It's Julie Stewart Banks. I'm doing a new podcast from iHeart Podcasts and the National Hockey League, and I'm paired up with one of my favorite players, the always quotable Nate Thompson.
- [30:57]
Nate Thompson
I wore nine NHL sweaters and I have story after story to share. And believe it or not, I have plenty to say, and not just about hockey.
- [31:05]
Julie Stewart-Banks
Believe me, he does. Energy Line with Nate and JSB is the name of the podcast and it's going to be, well, it's going to be quite the ride. We're officially linemates, Nate. We're the Energy Line.
- [31:16]
Nate Thompson
We'll have plenty of folks join us, current players, some of my former teammates, hall of Famers. And wait till you see some of the connections that Julie has. She has quite the Rolodex.
- [31:26]
Julie Stewart-Banks
Okay, we'll lean into Nate's playing experience and tap into our interests away from hockey and try to do what energy lines are supposed to do, provide an emotional boost. How do you feel about all that, Nate?
- [31:38]
Nate Thompson
I'm vibing Julie. I'm ready to roll.
- [31:40]
Julie Stewart-Banks
Listen to Energy Line with Nate and jsb on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [31:51]
Colin Cowherd
John Middlekoff, former NFL Scout all right, let's, let's, let's do a little NFL. The draft is coming up in a couple of weeks, so I was sitting with a Packer fan the other night having dinner. My wife and I were with some acquaintances in Chicago and they were talking about Aaron Rodgers and two people at the table said, well, why hasn't he signed? And I said, well, I think Aaron deep down knows Pittsburgh's fool's gold. DK Metcalf, George Pickens, lot of drama. They can't get their O line right. They lost Najee Harris and their left tackle. I don't know if the offensive coordinator is Aaron's type of guy. So I think Aaron, if he thought Pittsburgh was the deal, he would sign with Pittsburgh. And my take on Aaron is he really wants to sign with Minnesota. And Minnesota right now has kind of bounced around and been a little ambiguous with JJ McCarthy injury wise. But I'll just ask you is I think if Aaron wanted to sign, he would. And I think he knows Pittsburgh's fraught with issues. You know, defensive culture, defensive spending too high, maintenance receivers, left tackle gone. They've had a battle line for seven years. Why do you think he hasn't signed?
- [33:06]
John Middlekoff
You know, I remember you had Danny Parkinson probably a month ago, and he thought that Aaron was going to sign it at Pat McAfee's deal in Pittsburgh. And at first I thought he was crazy. And then the closer we got, I'm like, yeah, maybe it's going to happen. So I kind of expected him just to announce at that thing and then it doesn't happen. And you're like, well, maybe this is not inevitable. And like you said, Kevin O'Connell, I think he said at the owners meetings that two things can be true. We believe in J.J. mcCarthy and we'd also not be doing our job if we weren't showing interest in Aaron Rodgers. Well, they get a tryout period, at least physically, how it's going to look with JJ McCarthy and OTA. So if your Rogers is like, well, what is Pittsburgh going to do? Even if they should door Sanders falls to them, they still wouldn't be interested in bringing me in. They want to win next year. Shador doesn't guarantee that. Right. So he actually has a weird amount of leverage over Mike Tomlin in Pittsburgh. I mean, that can't feel great if you're a Steelers like Aaron Rodgers. But he has no leverage in Minnesota, which is clearly his best spot. Unless OTAs, you know, the coach goes, I don't know, they still look skinny. Maybe the offense doesn't look as smooth. Maybe physically he just doesn't look.
- [34:13]
Greg Rosenthal
Right, right, right.
- [34:14]
John Middlekoff
So I think he can gauge if, if there are reports after, you know, a couple of those OTA practices, which again, I'm not acting like those are the end all be all, but from a physical standpoint we saw him walk the sideline against the Lions. He looked like he weighed 175 pounds.
- [34:30]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah.
- [34:31]
John Middlekoff
And he had needed multiple knee surgeries. I understand. And listen, I like the player as well, but you can't go off just one good experience in a preseason game for a team that if you just removed the quarterback for every team in the NFL, Minnesota undoubtedly would be a top five pick of a roster team. Right. You would take them probably above like the Chiefs or the Bills.
- [34:53]
Colin Cowherd
Well, they just revamped their, I mean the Bears and the Vikings both real upgrades on their O line. So we know we like Minnesota's coach and running back and wide receivers and tight end. They went and shored up their offensive line. So I think it's one of the more attractive places in the league for.
- [35:09]
John Middlekoff
A quarterback for sure. So to me, if, if you have any reservations, I also think if I'm Kevin O'Connell, I go, Aaron, we want you. And I'd even do it before OTAs, but we're offering you a veteran minimum, no guaranteed, like you've already made 500, $400 million on and off the field. Who knows how much you've made. But we're not guaranteeing you anything. So if things ever get weird or it doesn't fit, we can, we can both move on. You're not cost if you really want this because you're no dummy. You know, this is by far your best opportunity. But like, I don't know what Pittsburgh is even offering one year, $20 million or something like Minnesota wouldn't even entertain something like that. One year, couple million dollars. And if things don't work after training camp, we can both go our separate ways, but we're not being stuck. But I wouldn't fault them for being interested just because we have seen enough now with, you know, most of these rookie quarterbacks go to really shitty teams, right? So it's like even if you have a bad year, whatever. Trevor Lawrence's first year with Urban Meyer, he got like a pass. It's happened twice now. A guy's been drafted really high and gone to a team with like legit playoff expectations. Trey Lance was higher than Caleb, but Caleb had pretty big expectations. And then it was just, it's a lot of pressure, a lot of stuff going on. That is J.J. mcCarthy. I know he's a second year player, but he's technically like, like Blake Griffin, right? He didn't play his rookie year because he tore his knee. You're a rookie, you know, on the field like that, you can't have much more pressure as a first time starting quarterback that's 22 years old that's never played. Kevin O'Connell is not Kyle Shanahan. You watch him in those. The game against Detroit and the playoff. He's calling pass place.
- [36:42]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah, he wants to.
- [36:43]
John Middlekoff
He's McVeigh, he wants to. And Andy, he wants to pass. JJ played in a running offense, remember they beat Penn State and they didn't hand the, they didn't pass the ball in the second half like the Michigan. Handoff, handoff, handoff. Play D. That's what he's used to doing.
- [36:56]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah, I think there's real concerns there and I think Aaron's smart to just. I would wait till the draft's over. I want to see where the chips fall. I don't want to get burned like Kirk Cousins and I'm going to sit around if I'm Aaron and if I don't get the right offer, I got 200 million bucks in the bank. I'm done.
- [37:13]
John Middlekoff
I think Minnesota definitely is still on the table.
- [37:15]
Colin Cowherd
So do I.
- [37:15]
John Middlekoff
There's.
- [37:16]
Colin Cowherd
Okay, I want to talk about this because this got a lot of pushback this weekend. So Tennessee has a very young quarterback and he was making about $2 million. They were paying him $2 million when he was red shirting as a freshman to not play. And his name is. And I'll just call him Nico. He's got a long last name and I don't want to butcher it. So I watched him play three or four. Oh, I probably watched him play four or five times last year against the better teams. He was a young quarterback, not overwhelmed, but not a, not a, not a, you know, misses open receivers. He's not shadow or accurate. But he's also not draft eligible right now. He's going to grow. But he's a really nice talent. He's slender, he moves well, he's got a decent arm. And my take is. So he comes out this weekend and basically doesn't show up to practice and says, I want 4 million. And Tennessee to their credit is like, listen, we're not going to play that game. We're going to let him go. And I thought it would have been very difficult to hold out, not show up to practice and come back. So I think the Volunteers made the right decision as a program to say, listen, this isn't going to work. This is a bad vibe. This is bad locker room smell here. We're moving on. I totally agree with that, but I wasn't necessarily bothered by the Move because it is April. And coaches now are fetching 12 to 13 million dollars in college football. So if a top quarterback wants four, I'm like, I'm not going to hate the player. You can hate the system, you can hate nil. But I think this is, I think this is what we're going to see. This is the, this is the way the game works now. I don't think it'll hurt him in the NFL. I think eventually if he has a great year, people draft him. Everybody needs quarterbacks. Nobody cares. I mean, Caleb Williams had some emotional stuff people didn't like. Johnny Manziel had all sorts of it. There'll be a team that'll draft him that needs a quarterback. What do you make, what do you make of the kid doing it? What do you make of Tennessee's reaction?
- [39:19]
John Middlekoff
I forget the kid's name, but there's a pass rusher on South Carolina, the Gamecocks, who's like, looks like a Clowny or just like a Miles Garrett, that in the middle of the season, they're like, they had to up what they were going to pay him. And again, true freshman, he looks like he's got a chance to be like a number one overall pick. I have no problem. When you're an elite player, renegotiating happens in pro sports all the time. What happened? Who holds out in the NFL? Micah Parsons, Nick Bosa. Right. Justin Jefferson, Jordan, Jamar Chase. This guy did not have a good year. I'm with you. I watched a lot of them last year because Tennessee was good and they were in the mix. Had you heard of him in high school? Like he was one of the highly touted guys in la.
- [40:00]
Colin Cowherd
Oh, I think he was. He was the number one quarterback, I believe out of Los Angeles. So I watch all those guys tape on YouTube again. Moves well, lively arm. I thought as a college quarterback, his accuracy was against. And again, I only watched the Tennessee games against the better teams. Very hit and miss down the field. Very hit and miss. But again, my takeaway is okay, he's like a redshirt freshman. I'm okay with it.
- [40:25]
John Middlekoff
Well, here's my issue with the whole thing is all reports have it, it's his dad. You know, they say pigs get fed, hogs get slaughtered. Like you said, he got four years, $8 million without ever playing a snap. Where a lot of coaches, Kirby Smart does not give those type contracts to high school kids. Right? A lot of the top coach because it's not good business. Tennessee did because I think he was like Second or third overall recruit in the class. Arch was one.
- [40:49]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah.
- [40:49]
John Middlekoff
So I mean the hypes. The hype was, was big and that he got paid for it. I think he threw 20 touchdowns last year and only nine of them came in the SEC. He was not good in the SEC and against good teams.
- [40:59]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah.
- [41:00]
John Middlekoff
So to re. Try to renegotiate off a bad year to me is bad business.
- [41:04]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah.
- [41:05]
John Middlekoff
And Dan Lanning turned him in essentially like, hey, you're getting played. And I think some of these coaches, because again, he's not that good if he, if he was viewed as a camp, if he was draft eligible. Right now he's not getting drafted in the top 100 picks. It's all projection and potential, but not off actual play. And his dad again, 2. I think it was like 2.2 he was scheduled to make this upcoming year.
- [41:28]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah.
- [41:29]
John Middlekoff
What if this is one of those. I forget the NBA player, but he like opted out and he thought he could get like $80 million, ended up getting like a one year, $8 million. What if he can't even get a million dollars in the transfer portal? Because some of these coaches are going to go, well, he's a little overhyped one. And we're going to try to make a, a statement for our business. That's why Dan Lanning called them. Right. This is because they're like, this is insane. It'd be one thing if he was making a hundred thousand dollars and like the, hey, the going rates of million dollars. A couple million dollars would totally get it. His dad by all accounts leading the charge. Someone needs to give that guy some business advice. Get Drew Rosenhaus because I think it's bad business. No issue if you're an elite player. If it's Drake May a couple years ago or Ashton Genty, guys that could transfer and totally get it. This guy was completely underwhelming, Colin. This guy was. It's why I think Tennessee and most people universally are like, this is nuts. This is, this is just dumb business. Two and a half million dollars to play average football in the sec. They were a defensive team last year, which is ironic because Josh Hypo's their coach, Right?
- [42:30]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah. And if Josh Hypo's the coach, you would think it's one of those things where like when Shanahan couldn't make Trey Lance work and the Cowboys gave up a four, it's like, that's bad GMing. Josh Hyple you would think would be able to get the most out of this kid. I think one of the things the NBA. I never understood this about the G League. So let's, let's not pretend this is the 50s, 60s or 70s where basketball players are all starving coming into college basketball, they're not. It's a suburb sport. AAU kids, the good players are all getting taken care of. Even before nil kids were getting swag chefs, they're getting treated great money. Yeah. So I never understood kids that went to the G League instead of going and playing for a top six program where you're on television 25 times. I know Zion because he went to Duke. Would you rather take $400,000 for the G League or $300,000 or take $35 million of free marketing and advertising for Duke? And people say, well, they didn't grow up with a lot of money. Again, it's a year. You're not asking them to take a 7, 8 year hiatus away from money. This is not like, this is not, I mean again, great AAU basketball players are getting taken care of. So I kind of feel the same way about the dad here. I don't blame the kid. But it's like if you have one good year, if you come back to Tennessee and have 30 touchdowns, eight picks and you move well, you will be a first or an early second round pick next year because there's Arch Manning will go number one. After that there's about five guys and they're all in the same class. It depends how the season goes. So I just think the dad lacks a certain self awareness which is understandable.
- [44:35]
John Middlekoff
A lot of these dads, a lot of human beings would not have any clue or knowledge what to do in this situation. If I was one of these people that had the opportunity to make millions of dollars. And now in this world where I can get real representation, I would have Tennessee, hey, could we get in contact with either CAA Rosenhaus? I'd want someone real negotiating my thing. And I would imagine they're like, well, Carson beck just got $4 million. Well two years ago when Carson Beck had lad McConkey and Brock Bowers, a lot of us thought like this guy could be a first round pick. Really, really good year. Now I think most of us also thought Miami's kind of crazy, but some of these numbers that get thrown around, no one truly knows what's real or not. It's pretty clear, like it was concrete. This guy signed an 8 million dol year deal and if he came back in 3 years he will have banked over $6 million in a no state Income state at. I don't know where. Tennessee. Like, I don't have a great feel for their roster right now. In April, I would guess It's a top 10 roster. In college football, he had a pretty good chance to compete, so we'll have to see where this guy ends up. But it doesn't feel like Oregon, Ohio State are just lined up for the kid. So if he. If he ends up losing money, not only would it be a bad business decision, a football decision. Tennessee's got to be on the short list of great places to be a young quarterback playing football in 2025. Right.
- [45:54]
Colin Cowherd
Listen, I've learned over the course of my life is the young media always sides with the player.
- [45:59]
John Middlekoff
Oh, yeah.
- [46:00]
Colin Cowherd
Because it's a good story. And all the narrative, they don't come from anything. We don't know that. Again, if you're the number one or two or three high school football quarterback in the country, you're getting taken care of by a lot of people. So I just think it's one of those situations. I don't blame the kid. And I think when I watched him, I thought, oh, yeah, I can see it. I mean, he's got talent. But.
- [46:24]
John Middlekoff
And I will say he's got no feel for the pocket.
- [46:27]
Colin Cowherd
He doesn't. That's the. When you watch, like, you can say what you want about Shador Sanders, he has a feel. He's an accurate thrower of the football under duress. Like, you can tell he's quarterbacked a lot. And also, Shador is not a great enough athlete to make extra yards running around. He's had to make hay in the pocket. And by the way, his dad, Dion Smart, he's told that kid, kid, you want to get rich, don't be a runaround guy. Sit in the pocket and throw darts. I mean, Deion knows what the hell's going on.
- [46:55]
John Middlekoff
Yeah.
- [46:55]
Colin Cowherd
So when you watch Shador Sanders, you can clearly tell that he can see the field. He's super accurate. This kid's just talented.
- [47:02]
John Middlekoff
Huge arm.
- [47:04]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah. But I, you know, I do think the family needs to take a deep breath because, I mean, if he's great, he'll get drafted. I don't think he's great. I just think he's talented.
- [47:16]
American Express Representative
With Amex Gold, you get up to $100 back annually on eligible purchases at resi restaurants.
- [47:21]
Jeremy Hobson
So party of two, Right this way.
- [47:23]
American Express Representative
Is music to your ears. That's the powerful backing of American Express enrollment. Required terms apply. Learn more@american express.com With AmEx, we live.
- [47:33]
Jeremy Hobson
In a divided country.
- [47:34]
Colin Cowherd
I am a lifelong Republican with all.
- [47:37]
Jeremy Hobson
Kinds of different people.
- [47:38]
Colin Cowherd
You know, I'm a mother, I'm a grandmother.
- [47:41]
Jeremy Hobson
That's why we started the Middle with Jeremy Hobson. It's about bringing voices not from the extremes, but from the vast middle into the national conversation.
- [47:49]
Colin Cowherd
Anna, I'm calling from Las Vegas.
- [47:51]
Jeremy Hobson
Each week we bring together an all star panel. Mark Cuban, so great to have you on the Middle. Thanks for having me, Jeremy, Neil Degrasse Tyson, welcome to the Middle.
- [47:59]
Nate Thompson
Thanks for having me.
- [48:00]
Jeremy Hobson
And hear from ordinary Americans from all all over the country on the most important issues.
- [48:05]
Colin Cowherd
Hi, my name is Venkat. I'm calling you from Atlanta, Georgia.
- [48:08]
Jeremy Hobson
And when you subscribe to the Middle, you also get an episode each week called One Thing Trump did that focuses on just one item from the avalanche of news.
- [48:17]
Colin Cowherd
We should be examining what our government spends its money on and are these jobs necessary and what are we doing here? But that doesn't seem to be what we're doing in this situation.
- [48:25]
Jeremy Hobson
Listen to the Middle with Jeremy Hobson on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [48:31]
Greg Rosenthal
What's up, everyone? It's Greg Rosenthal, and I'm teaming up with the king of spring, Daniel Jeremiah. He requires me to say that we're going to be bringing you 40s and free agents, the only podcast you'll need this NFL draft season. From DJs, mock drafts to my top 101, free agents will have it covered for you with all new episodes every Thursday keeping you up to date as we head to the NFL Draft. Listen to 40s and free agents on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [49:00]
Julie Stewart-Banks
It's Julie Stewart Banks. I'm doing a new podcast from iHeart Podcasts and the National Hockey League, and I'm paired up with one of my favorite players, the always quotable Nate Thompson.
- [49:10]
Nate Thompson
I wore nine NHL sweaters and I have story after story to share. And believe it or not, I have plenty to say, and not just about hockey.
- [49:18]
Julie Stewart-Banks
Believe me, he does. Energy Line with Nate and JSB is the name of the podcast and it's going to be, well, it's going to be quite the ride. We're officially linemates, Nate. We're the energy line.
- [49:29]
Nate Thompson
We'll have plenty of folks join us, current players, some of my former teammates, hall of Famers, and wait till you see some of the connections that Julie has. She has quite the Rolodex.
- [49:39]
Julie Stewart-Banks
Okay, we'll lean into Nate's playing experience and tap into our interests away from hockey and try to do what energy lines are supposed to do, provide an emotional boost. How do you feel about all that, Nate?
- [49:51]
Nate Thompson
I'm vibing, Julie. I'm ready to roll.
- [49:53]
Julie Stewart-Banks
Listen to energy Line with Nate and jsb on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [50:03]
Colin Cowherd
Okay, NFL story here. So people are talking about, you know, Shador Sanders. It's not a very sexy draft, but there was a Derek Carr story this weekend, and I'm thinking, okay, that's where Shador is going to go. So Derek Carr apparently may not play this season. Did I miss the injury? Did. Did. Was this. I read the story and I thought, did I watch their games last year? I know he was banged up. Were you surprised at all by that story?
- [50:37]
John Middlekoff
I saw some of the Saints guys saying that they didn't think it was as serious as being played out. And he just had injured his shoulder, I think, either last year or two years ago. I wonder if this is a classic week or two before the draft. You're trying to get some information out there so someone jumps you, right? So players fall to you. I would be a little shocked again if, like, I'm with you. If something that happened that we don't know, because immediately, like, that's a pretty big deal. If you. The other thing is, they kept him on the roster when they could have cut him for $40 million, you would think that they would have a pretty good idea. The health status. I just think a lot of times the two weeks before the draft, you just got to be very, very careful with the. With the shenanigans going on, on stories being leaked about. It's why I never have an issue. And I know, you know, former players get really worked up. Like when a. When an anonymous GM says something about a player, it's like, guys, this. There's no love and war here. This is absolute war zone to try to do whatever you have to do to get the player you want. No one remembers this stuff in a couple months. Most of this stuff is all just kind of BS anyway. It's part of the game that's played in this business that everyone's getting richer than they ever thought, players included. So it's like, nothing's that bad. Shador. Like, everyone knows he's not a bad guy or anything. So when it's like he acted a little weird in the combine, things like that get said every single year. And the overreaction, rinse, wash, repeat. It's like Everyone just calm down. The Derek Carr thing felt a little like a draft story being thrown out there to try to get people to manipulate spots that maybe the Saints leak it out to try to get someone to throw them. I don't believe much that's happening right now over this last week. Now, I also think. I think that the NFL is very turned off by this crop, you know, because typically you feel really good about 10, 15 guys in the draft when. And listen, I like Ash and Genty. People think I'm being critical. When a 58 running back from Boise State is considered the third best talent in your draft, you got problems. Yeah, you got. And listen, I really like the player. I think taking a 58 running back when it's one of the deeper drafts at that position would be insane for any team in like the top 20. That includes the Raiders, the Cowboys, taking. He also played at Boise State, where we saw him against Penn State. Not all his fault. It's hard to like his greatness, you know, Is he Barry Sanders? Well, if you're going to take him in the top 10, he better be Barry Sanders or it's a disaster because the last couple of guys get drafted high. Christian McCaffrey, Saquon Barkley, Bijon Robinson are not five, eight kids from Boise State. And again, really good player. His year was awesome. I do think the hype on this guy to draft him really high speaks to two things. One, it's just, I think teams are like, well, all these players, we don't think any of them are good. So we might as well take this little guy who is least good. But historically a 58 running back, honestly, going in the first round, Colin is pretty. It'd be borderline unprecedented. It does not happen very often.
- [53:36]
Colin Cowherd
No. I think I've theorized, John, that about 10 years ago when there was the CTE stories and the concussion stories that the media just pounced on, and they were certainly worthy stories, is that the NFL had a real concern on their hands that they started targeting moms. Remember that about 10 years ago when the NFL started targeting women. And it's really helped. They've increased their female audience significantly. And that's great. That means, you know, I mean, it's like more people that love football, the better for you and me. But during the CTE, when they wrote that almost billion dollar check, the NFL had a mom problem. And that was about 10 years ago. I know I'm imprecise, but it was. It was around there.
- [54:21]
John Middlekoff
Yeah, like 14, 15. It was. You're right.
- [54:23]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah. And, and I've talked to youth coaches and turnout has been down. Now not in Texas, maybe Georgia, Florida, Ohio, but turnout is down. And I, I'm, I'll throw this out there. This is the first draft. Cause kids would have been, remember, they would have been eight moms, kids would have been eight. Now they're 18. Or no, kids would have been 12 when you start playing football now they're 22 outside of college. Right. So if you go 10 years ago, the 22 year olds getting drafted, 21 would have been 11 and 12 when you start playing tackle football for most kids. And moms are like, nope, nope. Now some may have been convinced over the last decade there's been a lot of rule changes, there's fewer concussions, the game is safer, there's less hitting. But if you look at when that story started 10 years ago, the kids in this class were 11 and 12 years old. And this is a casualty of that CTE two year story is that a lot of moms just said, we're not doing it. My son's not playing football. And now there may have been fathers as well. But I have friends in Los Angeles. I have a friend that lives west of the 405 and which is kind of the nicer area of LA, the ritzier area. And he's like, he goes, I'm rare. I want my kids to play football. They transfer out of here, they go to school, out of our zip code to go play football. He goes, but I can almost find no parents where I live in Brentwood, my friend, where the kids play football, they all play something else. Golf, tennis, basketball, baseball, something else. So I'm going to theorize that this is not going to be normal. We're not going to have bad drafts constantly. But will it become a little bit more like the NBA where about every third of fourth draft you look up and go, yeah, there's about seven, eight. Great. I mean, the NBA, last year's draft was weak. I mean, bad. If I asked you, and you're a sports guy, name five guys in the draft, I couldn't.
- [56:32]
John Middlekoff
No, no.
- [56:32]
Colin Cowherd
So, I mean, the WNBA draft was more memorable than the NBA draft. So I just think, I don't remember in my lifetime a draft with this level of star power that it has like three. If not for Shadow or Sanders, we, I wouldn't be, we wouldn't make my show very often.
- [56:52]
John Middlekoff
I'm going to need a little more data before I agree that, that I'm not saying that you're wrong. I do think like look at this draft, it's going to be. There are a lot of offensive and defensive linemen that are going to go in the first round. Yeah, those human beings can only do so much athletically. Right. They're not going to play baseball, they're going to gravitate toward football. Phys, you can dominate. Right. So it's not shocking. One thing that has I would say changed and we're never going back. I know they say sports ebbs and flows but forever I remember, remember we did something probably like seven, eight years ago in Newport. Like a fox I heart get together and I remember coming down there and Carson Palmer was there and you look up and you realize that and I remember going to a lot of radio games when I got in the radio and that the corporate quarterbacks of his generation, Philip Rivers, Eli Roethlisberger was on the higher end of athleticism. But most, most of them were NBA looking human beings. Six, five to six, six but couldn't move. And Tom Brady said this I could only play one position in a high school football game. I couldn't play any other position in the prime of my career. And Carson Palmer like those guys can't beat any human in a foot race on the field. Including the lineman. Not even close. Those guys don't exist in the draft anymore. All the players at quarterback. So is that guy, is he now playing golf and pitching and baseball where for a while maybe he gravitated toward football and now he realizes the coach only wants Nico Emo Allah because he can move around even though he can't play. Right. But he's a good athlete. And you look at all these college quarterbacks. I remember going through Arch's class, Jack Arnold, I think he transferred from Oklahoma, he's at Auburn now. But the whole group were athletes. None of them were like Jared Goff is really the last of a dying breed. When you look at the top quarterbacks in the NFL obviously the top dudes are all athletes. Lamar and Josh are better but Mahomes, Herbert can all move. Then the Jalen hurts. Even Purdy can move around there there is not a golf. Even Baker, now that he slimmed down and gotten older, he's much more of a move around.
- [58:52]
Colin Cowherd
Stafford and Goff were the last two pocket quarterbacks but staff when Stafford was.
- [58:56]
John Middlekoff
Younger he had much more mobility. He would have been on a better athlete than like a Palmer or an Eli. Right. That human that was always a number one pick or a Philip Rivers, a top five pick. He just doesn't exist in football, but that athlete still exists. They're still going to be the 6, 5, 17 year old kid. Is he just throwing 98 and going to Florida to pitch or is he going to Arizona State to play golf? Maybe he is, but he's not playing quarterback anymore. And for you, just look at the history. For my entire life, 80s, 90s, 2000s, that guy littered the top 10 in drafts. The 6, 5 quarterback from school X that couldn't really run but had a big arm. And not just the first round, like he got drafted throughout the draft. He just doesn't exist playing football. You and I watch a lot of college football. Who on a good team in college football or good prospect can't move. Even Drew Aller, who's a questionable prospect but can move right a little bit and he's on the lower end of athleticism for college.
- [59:51]
Colin Cowherd
I mean you asked SC has a young quarterback they got from unlv. And I mean his, his greatest asset is that he moves. He's not a guy that to this point in his career he's very hit and miss. It's. I'm kind of surprised how loyal Lincoln Riley's been to him. But he does move the pocket and I think that does give these smart offensive coaches about 25% more playbook. And I think it's an absolute advantage. That's why Stafford is so good, because he doesn't get those, he doesn't get movement right. Like you have to win from the pocket and Matt can do it. Jared Goff has to win from the pocket. That's why, I mean if you asked every coach in the league right now, I know it's only one year, John. If you asked every coach in the league next 10 years pick a quarterback, I think, I think they'll all take Jaden Daniels. I think that's the kid they look at and go, well, five of the years I don't have to pay him. He moves exceptionally well. He's scary. Bizarrely poised in accuracy. Like I watched this year and my take is this is not recency bias. This kid in 4th down high, leverage, overtime, last drive of the game, this shit is in. He's just intuitive. Like he just understands it's innate that you can't teach some of that stuff that kid does well.
- [61:08]
John Middlekoff
I think what's made Lamar such an awesome player is he was a mobile guy that has morphed into this hybrid. He can play in the pocket and kill you, but he wasn't like that early and he's become that Jaden I think a lot of people thought, like, this athlete got immediately. He's like, awesome pocket passer who also can just take off and move around. Not quite like Lamar, but kind of. And, yeah, I just. You're always going to have to win from within the pocket. But I think now college, you only get to pick. You know, Parcells used to say, like, the grocery store is college football. That. That's where we pick the ingredients. Well, college is only giving. You look at the national championship. Historically, when you think Ohio State and Notre Dame, you think, like, pocket quarterbacks. Both those guys were sprinting around. Will Howard had one of the biggest runs in the game. Yeah, Will Howard can play a little bit from the pocket, too, but he's an athletic guy. That's why when they got him from Kansas State, you're like, is this going to work? Chip wants a mobile guy. And then by the playoff run, he's, like, really throwing well from the pocket. But that.
- [62:06]
Colin Cowherd
That's.
- [62:06]
John Middlekoff
That's all college football is these mo. The mobility, which is good. Like, I'm. I'm not. No one's being like, I wouldn't want Patrick Mahomes, but, like, it still works with Jared Goff. And, like, if you put Peyton Manning or Tom Brady at 30 years old in this league, they would be just fine because they get rid of the football really quick. But you watch college football, no one plays like that anymore. So I. I do wonder if that is morphing into the. The kids that play football in high school. Because if you're a high school coach, I don't watch much high school football, but it does feel like all the top recruits are all, like, moving around.
- [62:40]
Colin Cowherd
Yep. They are indisputable. Have you gone on your honeymoon yet?
- [62:45]
John Middlekoff
I have not. We kind of. We were in Nashville for, like, a week. So I just took a deep breath.
- [62:50]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah, I went to the Bahamas for six days. And it was nice. It was not too hot, not too crowded. It was nice. But I told my wife this. We like walking in our neighborhood in Chicago. I said, this sounds crazy to say, but I grew up in the Pacific Northwest and I currently reside in Southern California most of the time. And I said, I know everybody's dream is to live in Hawaii and the Bahamas. I couldn't do it. The food's too inconsistent. The transportation is hit and miss. It was really an eye opener. I really had a good time, and Ansel was fun. But I told her, I said, like. Like, if you had to have your condo redone or your house redone, where are you getting high end tile work? Like? So I asked a lady that was in the business and she goes, well, when we built this hotel, we, you know, we shipped in, we shipped in workers. That, that, that's. And it was just funny being. And again, it's gorgeous. The Bahamians are wonderful people. It's safe. I mean, go there. But I told my wife, I said, I get tired of aqua water. Like after about four to five days, I'm like, I need cloudy skies and 57 degrees. And I know that sounds crazy for a guy that lives in Arizona, but I said I could never live down here. And I have great respect, but I'm like, it's just, it's not quite organized enough for me. I need my big city, I need my a transportation. And I learned that about myself this vacation.
- [64:24]
John Middlekoff
Yeah. You know, Maria thinks I'm kind of crazy. Like I love to work because my work, I'm not digging ditches here. Like I could do it seven days a week. I don't know, 365.
- [64:33]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah.
- [64:33]
John Middlekoff
But I'm like, I view myself like I'm 40 years old. Like, what else? I watch football, talk about sports. Like I could do this non stop.
- [64:40]
Colin Cowherd
I told Anne after four days I'm ready to talk again.
- [64:44]
John Middlekoff
Yeah, I really, really enjoy what I. And I've always kind of been like that, whatever I was doing. Because I just kind of followed what I like to do. We love Nashville. And there is a pace though with the south that is a little different. Like, listen, I'm not. There are things with the wiring of people that are from the northeast that are a little different than me. But I did like the way they pace, which is 100 miles an hour everywhere.
- [65:13]
Colin Cowherd
Same.
- [65:14]
John Middlekoff
And there's, there's always elements of that. Like there's a California cool. To the west coast, but there is like, you better be quick. Like when I want the check, I want the check. Like, I need this. Yes, we like things quick. And there are parts of the country like the word retirement. I love golf. I mean, I enjoy playing it. I, I like, I love watching it, like talking about it. I can play two days in a row. It's like, I can't. I'm done. Like I, I'm good.
- [65:36]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah.
- [65:37]
John Middlekoff
You know, some of these people like, they can just play golf over and over. I'm not those people.
- [65:41]
Colin Cowherd
And I love. I, I had so much fun Saturday. I played with in laws. I had a ball and I could have played the next day. But then I would want to get you Know it sounds, I'm not, I don't consider myself a workaholic, but it was really interesting being in the Bahamas and, and we, we went to two different hotels. The people were wonderful. But that there is. And I went to Turks and Caicos about four or five years ago with my kids and it was more fun then because the kids were all there and watching them enjoy. But it is interesting. I do think there's people down it listening to us think, oh, you didn't have a good time? No, I had a great time. But it was really an eye opener to me as I now I'm 60, right. So like I think about stuff like this and I'm like, no, I'm gonna retire in a cold weather climate and then cherry pick occasionally gorgeous beaches and resorts. But I'm like you, I like the pace of Chicago, I like the pace of Boston, I like cold weather cities. There is a, I don't know, like getting up and walking in 48 degree weather, putting a cap on is something I really enjoy doing and with a coffee in my hand and I, I just, I really discovered it about myself this week.
- [66:50]
John Middlekoff
I'm probably opposite. I, the cold is something that I like the pace of the Northeast, hate the cold, but I don't mind the heat. Yeah, like I, I can go on a walk in 110 degrees no problem here in Arizona. And like you said, I, I live in a desert now for several years. The water, even when I lived in the Bay Area, I wouldn't really call that the ocean. It's not like you go to the beach. Honestly, for me, one thing golf's been really good for me in this area is meeting people and socializing and I've met a lot of just high level people that I would not have met without it. That value to me in a place where, when I moved here, I don't know anyone here beside through Maria has been really valuable. So many people that have listen to the podcast, reach out, invite me to their club or what, just, just meet normal people and it's, it's a very comfortable situation. Like hey, you want to come play? Go. Never met a human. You show up, you typically have a pretty normal interaction. As someone that spends a lot of time by himself in an office watching and talking about sports, it's, it's good to, to socialize. But I'm with you. I don't, you know, I like Hawaii as much as the next guy, but if I don't go for five years, I don't spend that much time thinking about it.
- [67:54]
Colin Cowherd
John Mittlekoff, former NFL Scout Good to talk again, buddy.
- [67:59]
John Middlekoff
You too, Colin. See you.
- [68:02]
Jeremy Hobson
We live in a divided country, and our media couldn't be more polarizing. That's why we started the Middle with Jeremy Hobson. It's about bringing voices not from the extremes, but from the vast middle into the national conversation. Each week we hear from ordinary Americans from all over the country. And when you subscribe to the Middle, you also get an episode each week called One Thing Trump did that focuses on just one item from the avalanche of news. Listen to the Middle with Jeremy Hobson on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [68:32]
Greg Rosenthal
What's up, everyone? It's Greg Rosenthal, and I'm teaming up with the King of Spring, Daniel Jeremiah. He requires me to say that we're going to be bringing you 40s and free agents, the only podcast you'll need this NFL draft season. From DJs, mock drafts to my top 101, free agents will have it covered for you with all new episodes every Thursday keeping you up to date as we head to the NFL Draft. Listen to 40s and free agents on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.
- [69:02]
Julie Stewart-Banks
What's up, everyone? Julie Swearbanks here, along with former NHL player Nate Thompson.
- [69:06]
Nate Thompson
We're doing a new podcast together.
- [69:08]
John Middlekoff
Here we go.
- [69:09]
Julie Stewart-Banks
The name Energy Line with with Nate and jsb.
- [69:12]
Nate Thompson
Each week we'll get together and talk about hockey life. All topics are fair game, right?
- [69:18]
Julie Stewart-Banks
Exactly. And you'll never know who will drop by to join us.
- [69:21]
Nate Thompson
Julie is pretty well connected. She has text threads going that you wouldn't believe.
- [69:26]
Julie Stewart-Banks
Listen to Energy Line with Nate and jsb on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [69:34]
Colin Cowherd
You have to be very careful with tradition because sometimes tradition is just dead people's baggage.
- [69:38]
American Express Representative
I'm Jemele Hill, host of the sports and politics podcast Spolitics. On this week's episode, I talked with comedian Roy Wood Jr. About the lack of African American star power in Major League Baseball.
- [69:50]
Colin Cowherd
Baseball needs an Anthony Edwards, and I don't know who that could be. Mookie Betts is Steph Curry. He's exceptional and likable. Million Dollar Smile. But you also need Chaos Negro.
- [70:04]
American Express Representative
Listen to spoletics on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.