← The Herd with Colin Cowherd
The Herd with Colin Cowherd
Colin Cowherd Podcast - Scottie Scheffler Dominates The Open Championship! Scottie vs. Tiger? Nick Saban Comeback? Barstool + FOX Sports
01:06:46
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- [00:00]
Colin Cowherd
This is an iHeart podcast.
- [00:05]
John Middlekauff
Okay? Have you heard about this? Last year, Degree changed the formula for their Cool Rush deodorant and their fans rebelled and wanted the old scent back. And Degree listened. That doesn't happen often, they admitted. They effed up and they're bringing back the original Cool Rush scent. They're bringing it back and it's exactly how you remember it. Cool, crisp and fresh. There's a reason it's the number one men's antiperspirant and it's back in Walmart, Target and other stores now for under four bucks. So try and see what the fuss is about. Head to your local Walmart or Target to try the OG Degree Cool Rush for yourself.
- [00:37]
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- [01:28]
Colin Cowherd
Ah, come on. Why is this taking so long? This thing is ancient.
- [01:32]
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- [01:46]
Colin Cowherd
Whoa, this thing moves.
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- [02:06]
John Middlekauff
Every once in a while, you get the chance to make a real difference, and this is one of those moments. Folds of Honor provides educational scholarships to the spouses and children of fallen or disabled military members and first responders. It's a powerful mission, honoring their sacrifice through the Gift of education. But last year, about 7,000 qualified students didn't receive funding, and that number is expected to grow to nearly 10,000. Don't let financial needs stand in the way of their future. Visit foldsofhonor.org to donate any amount helps. Together, we can close that gap one scholarship at a time. Hey, so we all make mistakes, but owning up to them is the right thing to do. So you know Degree Cool Rush deodorant, right? Well, last year they changed the formula and it did not go over well with their fans. So Degree's whole thing is it turns up the sweat and odor protection when you turn up the effort. And good thing it does, because Cool Rush fans really turned up the effort to bring the original formula back. One guy even started an online petition and Degree listened. They admitted they effed up. They're bringing back the original Cool Rush scent. They're bringing it back and it's exactly how you remember it. Cool, crisp and fresh. It's back in Walmart, Target and other stores now for under $4. There's a reason it's been the number one men's antiperspirant for the last dec. It's the same reason why people were not happy when it changed. So if you've never tried it, it might be a good time to see what the fuss is about. Head to your local Walmart Target and try the OG Degree Cool Rush for yourself. All right, John and I are doing it's one o' clock central right now as we do our podcast as Scotty Scheffler just won the Open and really just he started playing well early in the day and it was over. Yeah, I want to start with this because we know he's great. It's so funny. Bryson DeChambeau said. I played with this guy in college. He wasn't nearly this good. This guy has really changed the trajectory of his career. But I was thinking about this. People are saying, is this like Tiger because he is the most dominant golfer in terms of leading, pulling away at majors. But I think people forget this tiger was about 40 yards longer minimum off the tee. Scheffler's more than the 3, 310. Tiger was 340 to 360. Tiger's the best iron player in my life. Now you're. You could ask experts, they may put him third, fourth, but I thought in his prime he was as good an iron player as the world have. And Tiger was the not only the best big putt, long putt putter, but he was a great lag putter as well. He could set up putts. If he missed, he had a short putt from there. Whereas Scheffler, to me the weakness has been putting. He's better now than he used to be. But I've always felt with his putting, if he's making putts, he's unbeatable, but he's not always making his putts. So my take is I know we want to crown the hot new guy Tiger. I don't. I've never seen anything like Tiger in his prime. I think if Scheffler was in his prime with Tiger, he would be like Mickelson. He'd be on him, he'd win majors. But I don't think you can compare anything to Tiger.
- [05:12]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah, I think one element of Scotty that differs from most superstar athletes, and that's, I mean, truly today was the icing on the cake of this guy is a complete rocket ship. Way more accomplished at the same age than Phil. Mickelson, who's easily the second best player of the last 30 plus years. Is typically right quarterbacks now. But NBA superstars, definitely individual athletes. Right. Tennis stars. And golfers become a business in themselves. The F1 drivers. The Scotty Jordan Spieth mentioned this today. He's like, you know, what makes Scotty a lot different than anyone I've seen out here is we all do these corporate events and kind of hustle and love that aspect. Not, not love it, but it's a huge part of our world. Scotty's not into that at all. You know, Tiger, let's face it, Phil Knight followed him. If, you know, if you read Shoe Dog, I think the last like three or four rounds in Tiger's final U.S. amateur victory. And he turned pro immediately after winning it for the third straight time. I mean, Tiger woods was a business, honestly, before he became a major champion. And then they just kind of colluded together. Scotty Scheffler is just a great golfer. Who said before this week started, did you see him go on the rant for about five, six minutes about. Yeah, honestly, a lot of people had a bunch of different opinions. It reminded me a lot of football coaches. It's like, you know, we grind, we grind, we grind, we win, and then we're just on to the next one. Belichick did this for 25 years, right? You interview him, we're just on to the next team because everyone's like, oh, Scotty doesn't like golf. No, no. Scotty doesn't find that much value, like holding up the trophy. It doesn't do much for him. But you don't become this good. He likes the grind. He wants no one to watch him and just be by himself and play golf, which I respect.
- [06:52]
John Middlekauff
Listen, Philip Rivers told me one time, and I was surprised he said it. He goes, I like the process better than the games. He goes, building a. And Philip was the total trash talking grinder. One of the great guys that ever played in the NFL. Philip Rivers is like, I love building a game plan. I love it. That's how I feel. Scotty Scheffler is. He loves the process of it, but once he wins, it's like, okay, I won. But it's really about family in the process. Nick Saban talked about this forever, and you've been in my process. When we do a radio show, I love walking in for two hours and building a show. Once I've done that, I know the show is going to be fine. There is something, and I think there's a lot of people like this. I think there are lawyers like this who the courtroom's fine, but it's building the case to defend your client. And I think that's a common thread with greatness. You really like sitting on the range for three hours, working on your 7 and 8 iron, your rescue club, whatever it is. And so everybody's kind of like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Scotty Shell Scheffler, buzz kill. No, he's telling you that the process, his love affair is with a family in the process. More than holding up a trophy on Sunday.
- [08:08]
Colin Cowherd
I also think it would be a turnoff, right, if he wasn't literally winning every time he played. So he's essentially showing you, like, I'm grinding as hard, if not harder than everyone out here. I love doing this aspect. I just hate everything, especially in 2025, that comes along with this. You know who didn't like that as much? Tiger Woods. Stevie Williams, his former caddy, they broke up after Tiger had the incident. Talked about this forever. Tiger would win a tournament and he'd tell him maybe an hour after winning and doing the press conferences, like, see on the range tomorrow date, Steven Williams. You know, after a while, it's like, Tiger, what? What are we talking about? Like, you're not playing for a couple more weeks in tournament. Enjoy the week. Enjoy tomorrow. Nick Saban, Lane Kiffins told the story forever. Jim McElwin, they would win a national championship. And Saban's like, see you guys tomorrow. 8:30 in the morning, recruiting meeting. It's like, nick, we just won the national championship. He's like, actually, it's 7:45. We'll meet tomorrow in the conference room. And they'd be like, what are we doing? Tiger was notorious for that, right? Of just being on the Range the next day.
- [09:08]
John Middlekauff
Yeah, and in retrospect, it's easy to say, but the truth is, because of the torque in which Tiger woods played with, he would have been much better served to take time off. He's like Zion Williamson, like his torque. I can remember when Tiger woods was in his prime and you know how a guy will take a shot and then the analysts will look at it in slow motion, the golf experts, and they'll break it down. Nothing Tiger was doing a golf coach would tell you to do. I mean, he was coming out of his shoes. His torque was insane. But it worked for Tiger. He would have been much better served, more than any golfer of my lifetime to actually take Monday off because it literally big down, I think it was.
- [09:53]
Colin Cowherd
He went the opposite, right? He started lifting harder. You know, I think I listened to Hank Haney's book within the last couple years, and he thought, you know, Tiger a little like Jordan almost became bored because I'm like, I'm winning every tournament. Started doing the Navy Seals training, like chasing his dad, right? It was like a part of his life. Like at one point in time, I think he. He believed. I don't know if it was actually going to happen. He could be a Navy seal. Started training with them in San Diego and like messed up his knee. And that's what happened a couple of years later in 08. This was in like 05, 06, 07. He's going on these long runs with the Seals and boots. I mean, these guys now are doing col tubs. They obviously treat their bodies. I would say golf has mirrored all these other sports in terms of all these guys. You know, the lifting, the recovery, the eating. You know, it used to be, let's face it, even when Tiger early on in, Tiger changed by the last 15 years, when the money got so big, kind of a beer drinking, you could eat cheeseburgers at the turn. I mean, that's all these guys, look who their friends are, right? Justin Thomas hangs out with Michael Jordan, right. Hangs out with football players. I mean, they're all kind of interconnected now in that circle, Tiger made golf cool, but that's where Scotty feels much more like a 6070s golfer. Like, he just wants to go home, be left alone, does not want the cameras to follow him. But Colin, last year he made $65 million on the course. And this year he's won two major. I don't think he's going to make the same amount of money potentially, but he's going to accumulate in a. In a 24 month span, probably on and off the course. When you factor in Nike bonuses, being the number one player, I mean you're talking 100, $150 million. I mean, he's going to be paid like he's an NBA or football star playing golf. And I, I think the one thing with his words, he's uncomfortable with it a little bit. He's not, he doesn't like that world. He doesn't want to be a celebrity.
- [11:35]
John Middlekauff
Well, there's a lot of these guys at the top of us golf right now are southern guys. You know, they go to Oklahoma. They go, they're from Georgia. A lot of these guys grew up in smaller towns. In my lifetime of working with people from the south, it's a more laid back approach. It is. And I see this a lot with golf. Like a lot of these guys that come on the tour, man, they just love the golf. Their dad was a good golfer. Scheffler's dad, I think was a good. In New Jersey. His dad is a real good golfer.
- [12:04]
Colin Cowherd
They moved to Dallas when he was young.
- [12:06]
John Middlekauff
You know, when he was young. A lot of these guys grow up and it's just, and they just, they're just chill. They're not, they're not. You know, and it's also, I mean, if you look at like a lot of baseball players are like this, there is no great big city high school baseball team. They're mostly like suburbs and they're mostly rural. And you play youth baseball, you live in a baseball world from the time you're 9 to 12 years old on. And a lot of these guys come from small towns or burbs and then they go to the minor leagues and play in Appleton, Wisconsin in small towns. And then they get to the bigs and they become stars and they're just not necessarily comfortable. Like, I mean, they live in Chicago or live in Detroit, but they just got their wife and their kids in the backyard. And when the off season hits, man, they disappear. And so I've always thought in the media, my job is to figure out who I'm interviewing and how comfortable they are with certain questions. Like Bobby Knight, when I interviewed him, I knew it was combative. Charles Barkley, he was going to be really playful. But there are a lot of athletes that you interview that they're, they're not necessarily comfortable with the spotlight. They've never had it. They just, it's not like they're actors or comedians where they sought validation or even in MySpace opinion is we. A lot of these Guys are just golfers. They played with their dad. They become stars, and they're not comfortable with all of that it encompasses.
- [13:36]
Colin Cowherd
Well, I'll give you an example of a guy who's lean into it, who shot 78 and after the first round, shot 16 under the next three days is Bryson.
- [13:44]
John Middlekauff
He was crazy.
- [13:45]
Colin Cowherd
Yes. Bryson wants to be a celebrity. He wants to be famous, and he leans into it. He wants to be like Arnold Palmer or Phil Mickelson, waving, signing autographs, being a huge star. He's not only embraced it, he's seeking it out, and he's good at it and he's comfortable in it. And like you said, he's seeking validation. He. He did not like when everyone was ripping him. Right. Remember, there was Koepka and him, drama, no question. It did not go well for him, and he kind of flipped the script and now he's become. It's kind of sad because how cool would it have been if he just would have shot like a couple over and would have been in the mix a day with Scotty now it's also. It's easier to fire at pins when you shoot seven, eight under the first day. He's got nothing to lose. But yeah, I mean, I. And I think that's really been good for his brand. He's become a YouTube star. He's become, I would say, as famous. And he backs it up because he's an elite player. Right. You would say him, Rory and Scotty are the clear top three dogs, which is cool. They're all a little different, right? You get this international star. I watched a lot of Golf Channel this week, and because they were in Ireland, they're like, no doubt about it. Rory McIlroy is our biggest star in the history of this place. And he is, if he goes on to even have more success, it won't even be close. Scotty's going to go on to be one of the great American golfers. And Bryson. Bryson is what, you know, Andre Agassi or Federer, Nadal or Lewis Hamilton. Most individual stars, they become a business, right? Tiger, Phil, and that's what Brian. Scotty just. Just let me play golf. I don't need to be a business because I'm making so much money. So it's. It's easier to have that mindset. But, man, it's crazy how good he is. Scotty, I mean, Colin, I mean, he. He beat the crap out of basically everybody with ease. It doesn't even look like trying that hard.
- [15:26]
John Middlekauff
I mean, I thought Rory played mostly well. He Did I thought Rory played really, really well. And yeah, I think, I think Scheffler, you know, when I watch him play, he just very rare. First of all, again, if he makes his putts, it's over. If he's putting well, it's over. But he's just a guy to me that there's a certain calm when I watch him play. He doesn't, you tell me he doesn't get himself into trouble. He's on the fairway. He kind of masters all of his clubs. I, I, I, I is his weakness putting? Is that a fair criticism?
- [16:05]
Colin Cowherd
It was. And last year Ro made a comment of like, why doesn't he just change to the mallet putter, which are those square putters that most guys historically putted with a blade putter. Well, nowadays they're way harder to putt with. It's a no brainer to putt with it. He listened, I think the next week or two weeks later putted with that. I think this, this year he's been a top 10 putter on the PGA Tour. Well, no wonder he's winning. I think this is his fourth win multiple majors. It hasn't really been a fair fight since, I mean, Colin, he's won, he's won three of the last eight majors and he probably would have gone back to back two years ago if he didn't get arrested in Louisville. Right. Remember, he shot now. I know. So it's, I mean, you're watching a guy that is just, you know, the thing with Patrick Mahomes where people nitpicks like, look at his numbers. They're not as good yet. When the biggest games, he's just in complete control. There's an element like that with Scotty where it's easy in golf to kind of get sometimes Rory a little less now that he's like 34, 35. But I would say four or five years ago could get really amped up. And even he's talked about this in golf, like it's, it's very key to breathe through your, close your mouth, breathe through your nose. It slows you down. You know, quarterbacks, I think kickers, baseball players talk a lot about their breathing. It slows them down. And it doesn't even look like Scotty has to think about it. It's like his natural personality. You know, Phil battled this. You know, Phil's a like type A, always going, going like, you got to settle down in golf. Golf, one of those sports too. Like in football, if George Kittle tries a little harder, maybe he'll break an extra tackle. You know, golf's not one of those sports where you just, like, try harder and have more success or I really need to hit this fairway. Like, the tenser you are, the harder it becomes. So you have to balance, like staying focused, but also like kind of keeping your body loose, especially in the arms. Right. Which then connect to the rest of your body. So he like the way his feet work. I mean, he's just. He's kind of an artist as a player who has become so good that, you know, we like our majors to be U.S. open. Last year, Rory vs Bryson, on the edge of our seat when he's on it makes it, you know, from a golf standpoint, a little boring.
- [18:12]
John Middlekauff
You know, it's interesting. We often judge our golfers in Ryder cup competition. If we get beat by the Euros, you know, we feel like they're catching up. But there was a. On the screen today, there was a stat about the dominance of American golfers, even at the British or the Open. And it's interesting when you think about, I grew up, it was Jack Nicklaus, the Bear. Arnold Palmer was more likable. And then there were guys like Tom Watson, who was great overseas. Like, he was always really great overseas. Then there were guys like Tom Kite that never felt like they won a lot, but finished second and third all the time. And you had personalities. Lee Trevino, Sevy Ballesteros. And then we go into the Tiger Mickelson era, and it's mostly Tiger and everybody chasing him. Okay. Now we're in a different era where there's, you know, there's Dustin and Brooks and DeChambeau. Big, like physically, like real athletes. And Rory's got that feel like Rory's put together. He's got a. He looks like Christian McCaffrey. Like, you know, he's got that short, stocky build. Where do you think golf is in terms of. I mean, could I make the argument there's three golfers in my lifetime, Jack, Tiger and Scheffler, and it's their era when they're playing well, they dominate for about eventually a ten year stretch.
- [19:39]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah, I mean, Tiger had Phil, but Phil and him actually didn't pair up that often. You know, Phil's peak came a little like in his mid to late 30s. Phil didn't win a major till he was 34. The one thing that would be nice is over the next couple of years, because obviously Scotty's in the peak of his powers is Rory still is an elite player, and obviously Bryson is In his prime too, that hopefully we get an opportunity to see those three guys in some. We got to see Rory and Bryson a couple years ago. So I think, you know, Rory's one of the greatest players. He's Probably a top 10 player of all time. Now, is Scotty going to pass them? But can we get those guys to match up? Like, it was clear Tiger was better than Phil. Right. Just in terms of. Right. When he got there, started winning majors, it wasn't really a fair fight. And even when their careers are basically both over, One guy is 15, the other guy is six. Tiger is whatever, 85 victories. Phil is 45. Like, you know, Scotty's still chasing Rory in terms of, he's still, you know, Rory winning the Masters this year. That means he has five. Well, I mean, he has a bunch. He has a lot more wins. So it's like, can those guys match up a little bit and can Rory match him? Can this raise Rory's game and be, you know, Rory already said, I get kind of bored. This is the one motivator, like kind of going at it with him.
- [20:54]
John Middlekauff
Well, go back five years. What had Scotty Scheffler done? I mean, nothing feels like nothing. It feels like it's been this four and a half year run. And that's why when Bryson DeChambeau said, I played with this guy in college, this is not what he played. Like, this guy's improving. His putting really was an issue. And now it's not. But it's, it's, it's, it's not like Scheffler came out of nowhere, but he wasn't a prodigy.
- [21:19]
Colin Cowherd
No, I mean, he, Bryson was more of a prodigy. Won the US Amateur, was a more dominant college player. Yes, obviously, Tiger Phil prodigies now, Scotty was played at Texas, was a big time player. But you know, I always like to put this in football terms, you know, maybe like a 24th pick in the draft. Right. Fifteenth pick in the draft. When you start talking some, you know, Rory McElroy, Jordan Speed, who went to Texas, number one overall pick, Tiger woods, the greatest prospect of all time, you know, Scotty would not have been viewed at that level. And even early on in his career was clear he was talented, but didn't start winning, I think till like three, four years ago. And obviously what he's done in the last two years, he's won like 15 times in three majors in, I mean, it's July, we're talking 18 months. We're not even talking two full years. Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, there's still. He has a lot more to accomplish the thing with golf probably more than other sports, maybe a little football. With quarterback, you can really improve mo most other positions in football or basketball. You kind of. Your talents are pretty well established early. You can get better. I mean, Rory's 35, 36 years old, still playing at a really, really high level. You know, Xander's 30, 31. He's gotten way better over the last couple years. He won two majors last year. So you could argue why couldn't Scotty even just his incremental improvements. That's what they always said about Tiger. It's like the scary part about Tiger is like he would kind of just keep creeping, getting a little bit better. And he was already better than all of us. So Scotty just keeps getting better. And I'm just talking like half a percent. He's already better than everyone else.
- [22:50]
John Middlekauff
Well, the other thing with Scotty Scheffler is he doesn't play every tournament. He doesn't. He could age very well. It's like Steph Curry. He'll be able to shoot like that when he's 50, right? Like certain play. Russell Westbrook, who's hyper athletic, you can see a real drop off. Right. The hyper athletic basketball player ages much more quickly. Cam aged very quickly. Brady did not. Scotty is not going to play every week. Golfers now pick their spots. So golfer. It's not literally. I mean, people forget how little money golfers made. Like Arnold Palmer's winnings on the tour, I think were dwarfed by his Pennzoil contract and his, his like, endorsement contract.
- [23:34]
Colin Cowherd
Colin, it wasn't even close. Jack too, honestly, through like Faldo and Norman, up, up through the, the Internet era, it wasn't even close.
- [23:41]
John Middlekauff
So my point is most of these guys, like Rory should age well. Scheffler should age well. You. The grind isn't the same as it used to be. That, I mean, I remember reading an article, must have been 15 years ago on how little Arnold Palmer made on the tour winnings. And I was like, the hell? Tiger is the one that exploded. Like Michael Jordan made the NBA global. Magic and Bird made it popular. Michael made it global. Tiger made golf lucrative. Just on the Tour, you could be top eight and you were making a fortune. Private jet, everything.
- [24:15]
Colin Cowherd
Do you know, a lot of times I think Billy Walters, you know, Phil's gambling guy in that book, and other people have talked about this definitely in the 50s and 60s, but even through the 70s and 80s, the Jacks, the Lee Trevino's, Arnold was a little older than them. But the Raymond Floyd's, they would do two things. They would play in these huge money games on Monday after an event that paid more than if they just won a PGA Tour event.
- [24:39]
John Middlekauff
Wow.
- [24:39]
Colin Cowherd
And also these corporate outings that they would be paid because, you know, the PGA Tour at their tax status, it. They always, like, they couldn't just pay Jack 100 grand to show up an event, right?
- [24:49]
John Middlekauff
You.
- [24:50]
Colin Cowherd
That's what always made golf unique. It's why they had problems over the last. The split, because unlike basketball, I could just pay LeBron James $50 million. And I know every single game LeBron's obligated to play for me. Golf's not like that. So Rory's like, I don't have to play this week. Right. But all the corporations. It's why if you go to YouTube, you can watch Tiger do clinic after clinic after clinic for Nike, for Buick. That's what he did on Monday to earn the 20, 30 million dollars those corporations are paying him, which even at the time, with Tiger in the late 90s, early 2000s, paid more than the Tour. That's where it's changed. Scotty Sheffield made $60 million playing golf. Yeah, he. He makes a lot of money. Nike. He doesn't need Nike. If he just wore like, the Tony Romo outfit that was Emblem list, he would be financially fine. So they. They have gotten so big, Rory. Same thing they make a lot of. They don't need Nike. They don't need anything. They could just be completely blank and just play for the check and be. Be fine. Where golf was never like. I would say tennis is the same thing too. These guys now are making so much money on the court, let alone off the court, that they are just. They're in different stratosphere. So it definitely gives them more flexibility. Like, Tiger didn't want to do all those corporate events, but he had to. He was obligated because they were paying him for it. That's where I think, Scotty, if you notice, I don't think his bag has a lot of emblems. Like, he's not in business with all these people. All these guys are. You know, you look at Jordan Spies bag or Rickie Fowler's bag, they just. Because they've been taught from a young age, from the older generation, this is what you do. This is. We're like nascar, you know, on grass, put as much stuff, and you answer to these guys, they'll pay you more than you could ever win.
- [26:28]
John Middlekauff
All right, so good roundup with John Middelkoff, who also Go Low, has a golf podcast with us. So I there is something about and I think a lot of this is as I've gotten older, I golf a lot more now than I used to, especially in the summer. Spring. In the summer that to watch a major when, when you've got. I mean, I was so happy that Rory went into Sunday with a shot. It was pretty clear after about four holes that Scotty was not surrendering anything. He was on his game. Oikos presents 15 seconds of strength Here we go. Steve's got a trunk full of groceries and no one to help him.
- [27:04]
Colin Cowherd
Oh, that's tough. Jim looks like a five trip load at least.
- [27:07]
John Middlekauff
He grabs the first bag, the second bob.
- [27:10]
Colin Cowherd
It looks like he's trying to do.
- [27:11]
Unknown Sponsor Voice
It all one trip.
- [27:12]
John Middlekauff
He shimmies the door open, open steps over the dog. Oh, and he stumbles.
- [27:15]
Unknown Sponsor Voice
Oh, right into the kitchen without missing a beat.
- [27:18]
Colin Cowherd
Jim. Now that's a man who eats his protein packed Oikos.
- [27:21]
John Middlekauff
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- [27:29]
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- [28:29]
John Middlekauff
Hey, so we all make mistakes, but owning up to them is the right thing to do. So you know Degree Cool Rush Deodorant, right? Well, last year they changed the formula and it did not go over well with their fans. So Degree's whole thing is it turns up the sweat and odor protection when you turn up the effort. And good thing it does because Cool Rush fans really turned up the effort to bring the original formula back. One guy even started an online petition and degree listened. They admitted they effed up. They're bringing back the original Cool Rush scent. They're bringing it back and it's exactly how you remember it. Cool, crisp and fresh. It's back in Walmart, Target and other stores now for under $4. There's a reason it's been the number one men's antiperspirant for the last decade. It's the same reason why were not happy when it changed. So if you've never tried it, it might be a good time to see what the fuss is about. Head to your local Walmart Target and try the OG Degree Cool Rush for yourself.
- [29:18]
Unknown Sponsor Voice
This podcast is sponsored by Total Wireless, the official wireless partner of ufc. So when you're streaming the fight or sharing those takedown highlights, you need a wireless provider that keeps you close to the action. With Total Wireless, you're covered by the Verizon 5G network, so you don't have to worry about your connection being knocked out at the biggest moments. It's not something you can usually say about a wireless provider, but Total Wireless really has your back. They're in your corner every second of the day, so you never miss a thing. They keep you covered for just 25amonth with four lines without sacrificing the essentials like speed. With Total you get unlimited 5G data so you can stay ahead of the action and keep up with every knockout. Total Wireless understands you can't afford surprise blows any more than your favorite fighter can. That's why the price is guaranteed for five years, taxes and fees included. The best fighters don't make it to the Octagon alone. They have all in support along the way, and it shouldn't be any different for you. So visit totalwireless.com or visit your local Total Wireless store to learn more about how Total Wireless can be in your corner. 5G access requires a 5G capable device and a 5G service area. Monthly rate on the Total Base 5G Unlimited plan for new subscribers applies only to the monthly rate for your plan. Additional terms apply. See website for details.
- [30:59]
John Middlekauff
And now for our next segment. Whiskey Business. Yes, Whiskey business brought to you by Green River Whiskey, the official whiskey of the Colin Coward podcast. Do you want to talk about a couple of football things? And then I want to talk about a WNBA thing, which I think is interesting. So I had said it this week is that a lot of times when there's a rumor John who who starts the rumor? So Greg McElroy a guy who I respect greatly, does a great job on. I think it's WJOX radio in Alabama. Former Bama quarterback. Greg's really smart, really works hard. He's as good a college football analyst and I'm talking TV networks, he's as good as anybody out there. I bring him on the show, the volume a couple times a year. He's just sensational. And he said there's a lot of talk about Nick and coaching. So that's, in my opinion, I'm guessing here that's coming from his Alabama sources.
- [31:50]
Colin Cowherd
Well, they all play golf in the same circles at this point in time, don't they?
- [31:54]
John Middlekauff
Then Lane Kiffin says, and Lane's one of his closer, is close to Nick, more close than many other assistants. He's like, yeah, I think my guess is he may miss developing young people. He really, he loves that. So my take is, okay, this is a story. So I brought Urban Meyer on this week, who is friends with Nick. And he said, I don't think he's going back to college, but he's gonna. He would take NFL calls. And this is one of those things where. And I told Urban this and Urban hadn't thought about it a lot, but what the NIL has done, coaches thought the NFL, the NIL was trouble. I gotta pay my players. Dabo Sweeney's like, I'm not paying my players. That's not college football. It's actually been a beneficial additive for coaches. You can't fire Brian Kelly or Lincoln Riley if you wanted to because USC just built 300 million in facilities. They got that from the donors. They raised $18 million a year, nil. They got it from the donors to buy out Lincoln would be 80 million and then you'd have to pay 60 million to 80 million to get the new coach. USC in Southern California, the biggest economy in the country, they can't afford it. The idea that Alabama, who is struggling to raise 15 million a year, nil, could buy out Kaelin for 70 and then bring Nick back for 100 million. Six year deal. They don't have close to that money. Auburn now is raising more money. And so my take is with Nick, he's not going to college because nobody's buying out their coaches anymore. Nick's not coming back for 12 million. Two years. Nick's coming back. I want, I want four years guaranteed. Okay? And I want 13 million per year. That's 50 minimum. Jimmy Sexton, 50 minimum. Well, then you have to buy out your coach. It's not happening. But Nick like Harbaugh. Harbaugh had Kaepernick and Alex Smith, and it gnawed at him. He's like, if I can get the quarterback right. And the owner is paying for a staff, which the Spanos family finally opened up. Checkbook for the staff. Big, you know, Jesse Minter, Greg Roman. That's an expensive.
- [34:04]
Colin Cowherd
They're paying a lot. Yeah, a lot.
- [34:06]
John Middlekauff
And the Spanos, the knock on the Spanos. It was fair. I don't think it's fair anymore. But it was fair for a long time. They're cheap. They're not anymore. They pay Herbert. They pay the staff. They. They built a gorgeous new facility in El Segundo.
- [34:17]
Colin Cowherd
It does look good on.
- [34:18]
John Middlekauff
Oh, it's gorgeous. Like, they. They spend money. That's an unfair criticism anymore. I thought it was fair until about three, four years ago. The SOFI deal is great for them. They're spending money. But I think Saban looks around and I'll throw this at you, Jimmy Haslam loves publicity. They're probably the worst team in the league. Arch Manning goes to Cleveland. Manning's no Saban. He coached in Cleveland before. They would be the most interesting team in the league. He would give him a five year. What's 15 times five? $75 million deal. Yeah, I think Nick would do it.
- [34:52]
Colin Cowherd
Well, here's the thing Belichick is a good example of, right. The NFL kind of turned on him, and he was open to college. He claims the nil. And obviously that's an aspect they're comfortable. But no one tells you what to do in college. When you become the football coach you have, you're basically the owner if it was the equivalent of the NFL. Right. Nick Saban has answered to nobody for 15 plus years. I mean, by the time year two or three at Alabama, when he won, he answered to nobody in the NFL. You know, the AD in recruiting is not sitting behind you on a chair looking over your shoulder. What did we talk about with Shador? It was Andrew, Barry Stefanski and then Haslam kind of right there in the middle. Now, Haslam has spent more actual cash than any owner in the league in the last four years in terms of signing bonus. So financially, he would be the equivalent of like University of Texas in terms of the pros. Right. He is spending an ungodly amount of money. So people would be attracted to his willingness to kind of. He'll manipulate the salary cap for you, but he's extremely involved. And Nick has had. I mean, his nickname, right? I mean, he's a Nick Tater like, he answers to nobody. And in fairness, his decisions are usually correct. I think I saw that you talked to Breer about Dallas. I'm not saying that some of these owners would not sniff around. Probably already have made some contact, like, hey, just big picture. It's called business. I just wonder, like, would he answer to Jimmy Haslam or Jerry giving him constant football ideas? Remember Belichick? Probably might have been the year he was off. Started listing off stories, I think, like, McAfee, about different times. Owners storm in and give different ideas. Like, hey, yeah, are we sure? Defense. He used to talk about the Cleveland experience. Like, we know what we're doing on defense. And Bill would be like, nick Saban's our defensive coordinator, you idiot. You know, So I just think these guys, it's unlike any business where a family like the Haslams, who are clearly successful, or Jerry or whoever, in whatever industry they're in, even if they are football people and love the sport. You can't speak the language in terms of, like, football language, which is extremely complicated, especially once you get in season with schematic stuff. I just think it becomes really complicated for a guy like Nick who's, you know, I don't know, made hundreds of millions of dollars to then answer to someone. And I don't care who you are in the NFL, you still somewhat have to answer. I mean, you talk to all these GMs, I'm sure what they bitch to you about is like, God, the owner, he's in my ass about this and this. And it's not always just like, the star quarterback. It could be the stupidest stuff. And they spend a lot of their time. It's when GMs go on an interview and they say, you know, you have to realize that you can't just sit in a room and watch film. What they're essentially saying is, I'm getting pulled in a bunch of different directions. And whenever that call or that guy walks in, you don't have a choice. You drop everything you're doing for the owner. So. And that Jimmy Haslam's extremely involved. But I'm with you. Nick Saban, Jimmy Haslam, 2000. What year are we in? 25. So that would be like, January of 2026. Signed me up. Now we got a long way to go, right? I think Saban would be more realistic than, like, Arch Manning. I'm excited as anybody, but, like, he's played two games, so I know, you know, is he going to be a great play? I don't know. It's the SEC is really hard. They open up with Ohio State. He has an insane amount of pressure and he's. It's not his fault. He's saying all the right things. Sark saying all the right things but it's everyone else. It's going to be pretty intense. And the other thing, this quarterback class like good players at that position even in his own conference that are pretty well established that have been starting for a couple of years. Let's just see like is he. Does he throw 35 touchdowns or is this year a work in progress? He doesn't need the money. So even if he is really good, he's on a lock to go pro. Peyton Manning hell went back to school in the late 90s. He easily could after Nil. So I think he would have to have like one of the great seasons in college football history to for me to feel comfortable. Like he would be a lock to come out if you just tell me hey they're in the Final Four. He has a good season. He's like second team sec. I could 100% see him coming back to school. His two uncles did it. Like college football to that family. For a family that's obviously known for NFL stuff and financially really successful means a lot to that family. Right. It's, I mean it meant a lot to Eli goes back to Ole Miss all the time. His dad's a huge part of Ole Miss. Peyton's constantly in Tennessee. I think I just saw a story. His son is it Marshall is trans. They're mo. I thought he lived in Denver is going to play high school football in Tennessee. They have a lot of. They have a lot of passion for college football and I don't care who you are when you're around your uncles and your dad like stuff rubs off on you and I can imagine it means a lot. Listen, to be a multi year starter at Texas is a lot you want and done. Not that's not special but I think playing for two or three years is a really big deal. Look at Matt Leiner, you know in la like he's still a huge part of that program. He's part played it even though his NFL career didn't go great. So I don't think Arch is some lock even if it goes well to go pro.
- [40:01]
John Middlekauff
Yeah, the one guy I said Drew Aller is the one guy at Penn State where I watched him a couple years ago and I'm like he's just not, he's not buttoned up, he's loose. He's not Accurate. And then I watched him last year and I was like, oh, that's a first round quarterback. If he makes the same jump this year and gets to like 68% completion percentage with his size, that is a big time player. You know, we forget this all the time. These guys are like 21, you know, like. And now they're in an nil world where there's a little bit of pressure, like they're buying pizza. Right guys, I got all the money, so. And Penn State's got an nil. That's you know, reasonably noteworthy.
- [40:37]
Colin Cowherd
So no, I think Oklahoma feels that, that Washington State, John Mateer, I mean I would say the, they're very bullish on his prospects. I know NFL people are very, very excited and obviously Oklahoma, I think they think they're going to be a lot better. They paid for a lot of money in transfer portal. They bring in this quarterback. So you start comparing Matier and Arch and Matier already has a year starting at Washington State. So he's played a lot. And I understand Washington State in 2024 is not what it used to be, but still he's played like Arch hasn't really played. He played the two games against nobody's and thrown in against Georgia, which is not his fault. They just went with Quinn yours. But I, you know that, that the conference in the SEC, which I would say over the last 15 years has been more a positional conference. They've had a couple good quarterbacks this year from a quarterback standpoint. Florida's got a quarterback, South Carolina's got a quarterback. Oklahoma's got a quarterback. Obviously Texas has a quarterback. It's, it's going to be a pretty fascinating kind of little quarterback group. And then we'll, you know, Alabama, Georgia, one of those team Nussmeier at LSU, you know, is viewed as a potential. Yes, top 20 pick. So it's a pretty good quarterback conference this year. And we know they always got defensive linemen, skill guys, DBs. I think the SEC is going to be pretty interesting from a quarterback standpoint because you know, you look at the Big Ten, I don't Ohio State their quarterback. You know, it's pretty big shoes to fill. I mean, will Howard down the stretch look like Peyton Manning? Obviously Michigan paid the kid $20 million or whatever. It's difficult. So it's going to be fascinating to see now their talent on those teams be able to be okay.
- [42:13]
John Middlekauff
But when you want to enjoy life's simpler pleasures, reach for green river whiskey. Whether it's rye whiskey or single barrel Bourbon. You're getting over a century of craftsmanship packed into every bottle. Hop on over to greenriverwhiskey.com and discover a legend in a bottle today. Okay, so this is a big, broad topic about the wnba. So the wnba, it was basically subsidized. Not basically. It was by the NBA. For 25 years, it made no money. They started in big arenas, they moved to smaller arenas. They were on commercial flights. And then I've used the example that Caitlin Clark has become like a black light in a hotel room. Like, you know, you use a black light in a hotel room and you're like, oh, my God, this is filthy in here. She's basically exposed how bad the marketing was, how disorganized and unprepared the executive suites were, how bad the travel was. Now how bad the officiating is. She's a black light on the league. It was just not buttoned up. But now it's red hot. And because of Caitlin Clark. And so here we go. The cba, they're negotiating a new contract, and they came out wearing shirts. And people were really bothered by this on the Internet. It like, hey, you owe us the money. I don't think it's the greatest self awareness. I wouldn't go public with it. I don't think that's brilliant. And I think the league has just had, again, Caitlin Clark has put a microscope on the league, and it's got a lot of faults. I mean, officiating, marketing, they couldn't figure out women's basketball to put her on the Olympic team. It's like, hello, what are we doing? But it is interesting. Here's where I'll side with the players if, let's say, at the volume. I hired a podcast, and I had to subsidize it for five years, and it didn't make any money. There was talent, but it didn't make any money. And then all of a sudden, with four months to go or six months to go before the contract ends, it hits a zeitgeist. It gets culturally relevant. It gets really popular. It doesn't matter that it's lost me money. I have to pay it. So, first of all, I'll always defend anybody asking for a raise. I'll always defend any employee doing that. Most people just don't want to. It's uncomfortable. But it doesn't matter if you've lost money forever. If you are coming up on a negotiation and you are suddenly these people that own the organization, think about people that owned the teams. They're hemorrhaging money forever. Finally, it's like, oh, crap, our merchandise, our tickets, our TV ratings. We're going to make money on this. The truth is the women have a lot of. They have a lot of leverage, is that this investment took forever to pay off. But you can't sell it now. You can't have a work stoppage now because it's finally making money.
- [45:14]
Colin Cowherd
Well, I agree with you. And, you know, being from Davis, Sacramento's separated by a causeway. I remember when the Sacramento, I think, Monarchs were developed and they put them in Arco arena where the Kings play, and there were like 10 people going to the game. It was like, this is a bad business. Like this. It looks awful. And for a long time, that to me defined the wnba, is that no one watched. And I would say the defining line for most people over the course of the last 20 years was, well, the NBA just pays for everything. The guys, they take their money and pay for something that not only doesn't make money, I mean, loses a lot. I think what confuses people, and I don't know the answer to this, are they still losing a lot of money because it's convoluted right there in the NBA's television deal, but they view them as a mass loser. That's where I'm confused. Because if they are losing money, I do understand everyone going, pay us more, and you're part of a operation that's losing money. And the other thing is, if I remove Caitlin Clark, and I've always laughed at, like, it's just a bunch of racist rooting for this white girl. There have been a lot of good white girls playing in the WNBA over the past 25, and no one cared. You couldn't pay me to pay attention. And she has brought, I would say, a. Obviously they watch her to play, but she's brought a relevance to the league that it's impossible to quantify. It is. Well, I've always used Tiger woods, and I think there are some similarities there.
- [46:36]
John Middlekauff
Yeah, Steph Curry's more popular than LeBron. LeBron's the better player.
- [46:39]
Colin Cowherd
But Steph Curry, totally.
- [46:41]
John Middlekauff
Yeah, LeBron. Steph Curry, who is the comp for Caitlin because of his style, he's more popular. Everybody loves Steph Curry. LeBron's polarizing, I think. I think Steph Curry moves a number better than LeBron. Now I think we have LeBron fatigue. So you don't have to be the best player in a league. You have to be really good. Like, Steph's really. But you don't have to be the best player to be the most popular.
- [47:03]
Colin Cowherd
So my thing is, when they ask for more money, are they part of a league that is losing money because you're going to lose everyone there. Like you're getting no one to defend you. People have defended athletes fighting for when people are like, this guy's getting screwed. Especially individuals. I think as a whole, a common sports fan would just go, this league loses money. Now if you said, hey, we're making 50x what we not only used to make, but in terms of a profit. Because all I see is like, well, these franchises are worth. Went from 50 million to worth maybe a couple hundred million dollars. So the equity of a franchise, the owners are getting rich. And all these other sports, will the owners and the players share in this? My whole take is like, if I remove Caitlin, is this league actually that important and popular? Obviously it has improved in terms of its relevance. College basketball in terms women's college basketball hasn't had her consistently now for a couple years and still does really well on television.
- [47:57]
John Middlekauff
This, this is a great question. In Tigers prime, it didn't matter if any other golfer was popular. If I'm cbs, I'm upping my contract with the Masters because Tiger's going to play in doesn't matter how. Like one of the WNBAs. So this is why I think the players have power.
- [48:18]
Colin Cowherd
Where are they going to go to Russia?
- [48:21]
John Middlekauff
Well, but what they're going to do is they have a work stoppage. Well, the owners are like, okay, we've lost money forever. This is just the beginning of probably a decade of momentum and merchandise sales with Caitlin. So again, I'll give you an example. The late night shows, Colbert's going away in May, right? So that was a great business forever. And then kind of pre. Covid. Covid. And after Covid last six, seven years, they've lost 50% of their ad revenue for a lot of reasons. YouTube TV, young viewers don't watch late. The average colbert viewer is 68 years old even. I mean, that's insane, right? They thought he was gonna get younger. He talks politics. Young people don't wanna talk politics. It's almost 70. So that's part of the reason it's dying. So my point is, even though that business was great forever, it's been on a losing streak for several years. And CBS is like, we're just out of the business. WNBA is the opposite. It's been a loser forever. But the next 10 years look great. I would have to give them the money.
- [49:21]
Colin Cowherd
Who's Giving them the money, like, is the NBA giving them more? Because that's my thing. If I'm the WNBA in any other business, like you use the podcast example, I've subsidized you for 25 years. I don't know. I don't have the contract in front of me, but I get a piece of the pie if things go well. I have a huge, huge interest of like, okay, time to pay me back, or time for me to get my claws into this new money. So the, the pie that they think is just between us and the owner. If I'm Adam Silver, I go, hey, we've been involved in this. And, and we did it for, quote, unquote, the right reasons. We were fine with losing money. We were trying to help out. We were trying to grow the game, trying to expand our female presence from, for, for guys. But we have funded this thing for two and a half because. When did the league start? Late 90s? Like, 97, 98, 99. I feels like for a long, long time. So it's time for us to get paid. That's how business works. If I funded you for a long time and you hit it big, like Google, Apple, whoever. Remember when I gave you the 500 grand in the garage? So I get paid now, too. Now maybe they're making so much it's not even worth the PR battle, because that's what this would become. Because they would come at them like, screw you. And that's what they're trying to do, make this a PR battle. I do think it's a hard PR battle. When. Listen, you don't know the facts. We know the contracts. The average sports fan is going to go, this thing's been a loser. These girls don't deserve it. And there's something to that. And like you remove Caitlin, golf's an individual sport. Basketball is not.
- [50:51]
John Middlekauff
Yeah, no, no. Where you're absolutely right is the public's not going to side with the WNBA players because how they've treated. How they've treated Caitlin, how, like, parochial and silly they've been. I mean, they've really not. It's been embarrassing.
- [51:06]
Colin Cowherd
I mean, it really has.
- [51:06]
John Middlekauff
No. No question. Oikos presents 15 seconds of strength. Here we go. Steve's got a trunk full of groceries and no one to help him.
- [51:17]
Colin Cowherd
Oh, that's tough. Jim looks like a five trip load.
- [51:19]
John Middlekauff
@ least. He grabs the first bag, the second bob.
- [51:22]
Colin Cowherd
It looks like he's trying to do.
- [51:23]
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- [51:24]
John Middlekauff
He shimmies the door open, steps over the dog. Oh, and he stumbles.
- [51:27]
Colin Cowherd
Oh right into the kitchen without missing a beat. Jim now that's a man who eats his protein packed Oiko.
- [51:33]
John Middlekauff
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- [52:41]
John Middlekauff
Hey, so we all make mistakes, but owning up to them is the right thing to do. So you know Degree Cool Rush deodorant, right? Well, last year they changed the formula and it did not go over well with their fans. So Degree's whole thing is it turns up the sweat and odor protection when you turn up up the effort. And good thing it does because Cool Rush fans really turned up the effort to bring the original formula back. One guy even started an online petition and Degree listened. They admitted they effed up. They're bringing back the original Cool Rush scent. They're bringing it back and it's exactly how you remember it. Cool, crisp and fresh. It's back in Walmart, Target and other stores now for under $4. There's a reason it's been the number one men's antiperspirant for the last decade. It's the same reason why people were not happy when it changed. So if you've never tried it, it might be a good time to see what the fuss is about. Head to your local Walmart, Target and try the OG Degree Cool Rush for yourself.
- [53:30]
Unknown Sponsor Voice
This podcast is sponsored by Total Wireless, the official wireless partner of ufc. So when you're streaming the fight or sharing those takedown highlights, you need a wireless provider that keeps you close to the action With Total Wireless, you're covered by the Verizon 5G network, so you don't have to worry about your connection being knocked out at the biggest moment. It's not something you can usually say about a wireless provider, but Total Wireless really has your back. They're in your corner every second of the day, so you never miss a thing. They keep you covered for just $25 a month with four lines without sacrificing the essentials like speed. With Total, you get unlimited 5G data so you can stay ahead of the action and keep up up with every knockout. Total Wireless understands you can't afford surprise blows any more than your favorite fighter can. That's why the price is guaranteed for five years, taxes and fees included. The best fighters don't make it to the Octagon alone. They have all in support along the way, and it shouldn't be any different for you. So visit totalwireless.com or visit visit your local Total Wireless store to learn more about how Total Wireless can be in your corner. 5G access requires a 5G capable device and a 5G service area. Monthly rate on the Total Base 5G Unlimited plan for new subscribers applies only to the monthly rate for your plan. Additional terms apply. See website for details.
- [55:11]
John Middlekauff
My, I guess my point is I'm not wildly supporting the wnba. I'm saying as if I was an investor and I'd lost for nine years and I'm like, guys, it took forever, but holy shit, we got about 10 year Runway here. Let's not. I mean, we waited this long, we invested this long.
- [55:28]
Colin Cowherd
Totally.
- [55:29]
John Middlekauff
Let's just.
- [55:29]
Colin Cowherd
That's where you. That's where there's a lot of validity and substance behind that. Okay, let's just pivot. Who cares about 2006, 2026, and this thing's going to become a cash cow. But it's where the girls feel like they're. It feels like they're negotiating from a point where they all view themselves like LeBron, Steph or Caitlin, and they're just not. And that, that's where I think people have a hard time with. And Caitlin, let's face it, is kind of the least visible and definitely the least talkative when it comes to these issues. It's some of the other quote unquote star players who are leading the charge. It's why, typically, right, CBA negotiations in football. Caitlin's gonna make so much money. Whether this works out or not, it doesn't matter. It's typically not Tom Brady and Peyton Manning and Aaron Rodgers. And just like the next CBA won't be Josh Allen and Patrick Mahomes beating the drum, it's usually Jeff Saturday right up there. So it's some of these and it's. That's where it's. It's hard to get the public because I do think if they could get the public on their side, then, you know, typically the basketball has been, I would say, the sport that typically gives in to some PR press, but it's just, it doesn't feel like they have them.
- [56:38]
John Middlekauff
No, no. And this, that's very important is that corporations, it could be Fox, it could be the NBA. They don't like, they don't like skirmishes. It hurts their stock price. I mean, I could argue that if I, if there were. If I got into a battle with a corporation and I have a line, it helps my brand. It makes me look more like a rebel.
- [57:00]
Colin Cowherd
Totally.
- [57:01]
John Middlekauff
Right. The corporation doesn't. You know, the upfronts are coming. Our stock price. They don't want to get involved with any of that stuff. They want everything. They don't want to get into battles. Stephen A's talking about his contract or stuff. ESPN doesn't want to want that. It's good for Stephen A. It's not good for the corporation. Right. So. And I don't blame anybody for doing it if you're an individual. But the truth is the WNBA players have not done a great job to ingratiate themselves to the average consumer, where they've really come off as sort of anti Caitlyn. I will say, though, in the latest poll, who's the face of the league going forward next five years? The WNBA players overwhelmingly voted Caitlin Clark. So they are coming around. It's, it's, it's a, it's an aircraft carrier. It's not a sailboat. It's not a quick pivot. It has taken a while, but I do think they're coming to terms with. She's making us a bunch of money here, people. Let's not be ridiculous.
- [57:52]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah. Do not look, you know, look the gift Horton in the mouth and kick it to the side here. Ride this rocket ship to the moon. And it does feel like I would bet against them just fully embracing it, at least for the foreseeable future. I think it's going to be a little rocky. It still feels rocky. You know, the way she's treated and listen when she doesn't play. I'm a good example. I've been watching sports, all sports, my entire life. I have never Ever paid attention to women's basketball, let alone the WNBA to the last several years. And because of her, it brings light on the other players. Like, I mean, I know so much about Angela Reese. Angela Reese, I can't even.
- [58:33]
John Middlekauff
Sophie Cunningham was in the league seven years.
- [58:36]
Colin Cowherd
Totally.
- [58:36]
John Middlekauff
I didn't know who she was until four months ago.
- [58:39]
Colin Cowherd
So it's like she. Tiger. Dealt with a little bit of this too. Right. People don't like the difference is, you know, golf, it became way more successful post Tiger. But these guys were still doing well, right? They were living. This has been. I mean, these girls are making what, 75, 60,000. They're not making much relative, you know, to other professional athletes. So it's. Yeah, I just, I think it's going to be a little rocky and it'll be fascinating to watch Adam Silver and the WNB or and the NBA, like how they approach this because are they going to want to get made whole or a huge part of this moving forward? Like, if there's going to be a lot more money, we need to be involved here. I, I was texting our buddy Ethan Strauss the other day and I. Do you think it's been one of the faster cultural shifts definitely in my life in American history? I mean, last week it was announced. I personally, you know, I think journalists love to say Dave Portnoy is really polarizing. People in my life just are entertained by Dave. He's not. He's just an entertaining figure. But Shane Gillis's monologue is a good example of a couple years ago, ESPN would have probably had a boycott and would have to an issue an apology. I would say less than 12 hours later, and not only did it not matter, it's like everyone was just laughing, but it was like everyone just relax a little bit, take a deep breath, like, don't. You don't have to get offended at every single little thing in life. And obviously now Barstool and Dave and those guys are going to, I think, lead into your show, right. Moving forward, starting in the football season.
- [60:07]
John Middlekauff
Well, I think anytime there's a strong action, the country went very left and the term used was woke. There's going to be an equally strong reaction where moderates and people on the right said, no, that shit don't play. Florida got it right with COVID not California. So there was a very strong cultural shift left during COVID And I think like, I like Elon Musk buying Twitter, not because I think it's a better product, but I did think it got really weird. And that like people were just outraged by everything. And I don't like that. I'm a moderate. I want both sides uncomfortable. So yeah, I mean, first of all, I've never thought Barstool was a good fit with espn. I just never thought it was a good fit. I didn't think that show was going to last 15 minutes. I think it works at Fox because Fox News is sort of the example of, I mean, the New York Post and Fox News are owned by the Murdoch family. They have strong convictions on the right and you can call them whatever you want. They don't care. And so Fox Sports is under, although it's all a silo business to some degree is not protected. But we're under sort of the umbrella of like Fox News and the New York Post that the Murdoch family is very comfortable with you having lots of opinions. I know Sage Steele and I don't know Sam Ponder, but there are points that Sage Steele makes that are very legitimate. And I say that as somebody who leans left socially and is a moderate. So I think Barstool works at Fox. This is my take on it. So. So I think they were brought in for digital. I think they have power prowess and a footprint on digital. If I could say this, even if it offended my bosses, I don't think Fox is necessarily. That's not our strength, our digital presence. Barstool's great at it.
- [62:15]
Colin Cowherd
Second, you could argue the best when it comes to sports.
- [62:18]
John Middlekauff
They've been, yeah, so they solve a Fox problem, Fox Sports problem. Secondly, I think our management looks at our college game day as having more juice and energy and Portnoy is going to bring some of that young youthful shit, stirring energy. I think he absolutely does. Then I think the third most important thing after digital and Big noon kickoff is FS1. And my take is they're going to do a two hour show and then the replay of it's going to be in front of me. So replays don't necessarily do that. Well, the show may do well. It's replay, which is right in front of me probably won't Port Noise going to be on it? I think Monday, but not that often. Big Cat will be on it, but maybe not that often. According to him. There's a lot of stuff that's not being talked about that I'm not aware of. They're not, you know. So my take is of the three things they were brought into Fox for, I think Big Noon and digital were the most important. My guess is based on what I'm hearing about Portnoy pardon my take, guys, they'll do a two hour show and then they'll run it again as a replay. So that's not necessarily a, you know, a dynamic lead in, but I think it is a, a cost effective measure and it makes us younger on FS1, which I'm for. I'm for. In fact, I think I can tell this story. So six months ago, an executive, a suit, a big dog upstairs, called me into his office and said, hey, what do you think about Portnoy on our college football show? And I said, well, he's not a traditional broadcaster, so I don't think it's fair for Fox to hold him to that. Let him be a personality, let him be a social influencer. Don't hold him to Rob Stone or Tom Rinaldi. I don't think that's fair. I think you get in trouble when you ask Dave to be something he's not. Dave is a shitster, a social influencer, very nimble, very funny. You know, it's like you're getting kind of this running stand up comedy thing. It's very effective, especially virally trending. He's great at it. He's absolutely phenomenal at it. Let him be that. Don't turn him into something. Let him do that. And I think it'll be a big additive. That was my take. I don't know Dave at all, but we all know Dave. And then, and then I said, and they asked me about some content stuff and I said, listen, I don't want to be culpable for anything that goes on my show. I do my show. I'm good friends with Nick Wright, I care about him. I don't want to be culpable for any of this stuff. But I said, if you're asking me what I would do If I ran FS1, I said, if Portnoy's you're interested in, I would go hire, pardon my take, I think Big Cat is a lead on tv. I would hire him as a lead and then his partner, and then whoever he and his partner are comfortable with. That's a TV show. So that's what I said six months ago. Now, it was a 10 minute meeting. It's not like FS1 needs me to diagram their playbook. And that was the last I talked about it. And so it was pretty interesting. When the story broke, I'm like, oh, okay. Well, that kind of is what we were talking about. But I just didn't want to be culpable. I didn't want Other shows, you know, I don't want people to get lose our jobs. I'm not into that stuff. But I do think it's a really good fit. I think Fox allows you to have opinions from whatever angle you want. You don't have to be partisan. I mean, I would say, I think Nick Wright would be the. He said it on this podcast. He leans more left. They don't care. And Jesse Walters more right. It doesn't matter. Like, they just. Fox has never once come to me and hey, slow down on that. They don't care where espn there is proof. It is documented. They do care. I think they've improved over the last couple years. But it was pretty strident, stridently left for several years there and it made a lot of people uncomfortable. And I think that's fair. I don't think companies should be telling you what to say about your politics now. Now, if you want to tell your talk show host on ESPN or Fox in a sports show, don't talk politics, that's fine, but don't tell them what side of politics they have to go and bang the table on. If you're going to allow political talk, then allow all of it. That's my take.
- [66:48]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah.
- [66:48]
John Middlekauff
So I think Barr still works at Fox.
- [66:50]
Colin Cowherd
I think there's obviously just a rawness and this is why a lot of people have had success on the Internet is, you know, anything flies in the consumer then dictates whether you're successful or not. That's right. When I was a kid, if you got a job at the San Francisco Chronicle, you're going to be pretty successful because the newspaper controlled a lot. Right. Or on one of the local stations. Now it's like you can create it yourself. And no one's done a better job from the jump for the last couple decades than Dave building it from scratch. But, you know, whenever I like I said, I see people calling him polarizing. I just know a lot of people that just like, view him as entertaining. And I think that's where he fits in on Fox. I, I think actually that's kind of overblown. That's everyone's take. It's like, yeah, this 20, 25, maybe if it was 10 years ago, but we live in a completely different climate. One and two, Fox. You know, you guys, I would say obviously the a broadcast, like if you're doing a football game or a baseball game, it's very so different than anything else. But just in terms of regular programming, like you said, there aren't as many guardrails like be yourself. Or espn. I would say definitely. Even past you leaving leaned even more into, like, this is what we do. Stick into this. And you are only allowed to be on one side, which is obviously bad business. Who do you think is watching football? Have you guys seen the demos of the football watching audience? Like, where the men lean in this country? Like, guys, this isn't just a math problem. And you lean away with it.
- [68:16]
John Middlekauff
You.
- [68:17]
Colin Cowherd
You lean away from it. You deserve to fail. Because it's just, it's pretty basic at this point in time who stands where.
- [68:24]
John Middlekauff
I think you have to be fair to Barstool. If you bring Barstool in, let them be Barstool. I think, I think when, when, when ESPN brought in Barstool, and after a show, they're like, whoa. Well, did you watch? Did you consume their content? Give me a break. It's like, to me, if you're gonna bring him in, and this is what I told the executive upstairs, just, you know, you have to understand, he's not a. Dave's not a classic broadcaster, so don't hold him to that. Like, like, like, I'm not Tom Rinaldi or Joe Buck. I'm an opinionist. I am going to. You're gonna get a lot of hate mail and a lot of pushback on my opinions. Don't hold me to Joe Davis brilliance doing baseball, like, where if you're getting massive criticism, maybe you'd be concerned. If you're a generalist, that's the name of the game.
- [69:14]
Colin Cowherd
When do we get the Pardon? My take on Coward collaboration.
- [69:18]
John Middlekauff
Well, whenever they want, I'm available. I don't think they've ever.
- [69:22]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah. I mean, you're in Chicago. They're in Chicago. Now we have the synergy with Fox. I mean, it's. I, I, they're football guys. Your football guys. It's. It's time, Colin.
- [69:33]
John Middlekauff
Probably is.
- [69:34]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah. I mean, it really.
- [69:36]
John Middlekauff
You know what? I don't. Yeah. I mean, obviously, I know who everybody is. They really do the podcast game, right? They're smart, they're funny, they make news. And that's a big part of it. Part of what Barstool does very well is they make news. Like, that's important. They know the touchstones. They know the things people are talking about. And so traditional media has done themselves no favors over the last 10 years. They have a lower approval rating than Congress. Like, there is a. And I'm in the media. I don't. I read. I'm a subscriber to the New York Times, the Atlantic, But I read stuff cynically, like, I know I don't read it and just think, I'll take their word for it. I don't think I read it like that 10 years ago. I read it like that now. I mean, that, that Joe, that Joe Biden stuff, I'm sorry, that's as bad as the media has ever done in my lifetime where just basically it's pretty clear now they were covering up for him.
- [70:41]
Colin Cowherd
Like, I'm sorry, I watched your. I think it was, was it yesterday on Saturday, you put the, you put out a little video on the Colbert canceling. And I was thinking back, I love Letterman as a kid. And anytime, especially when I was young, could stay up late. My parents. And as you get older, you know, you stay up as long late as you want. You always went to those. I was a little too young for Johnny Carson, but Peacock put out a bunch of stuff and I've watched them on YouTube. It was an easy watch. So whether you were a huge liberal, whether you're a big conservative, whether you don't care about politics, it had nothing to do with that. And honestly, society shifts. I grew up in a very liberal town. I am not a liberal. And everyone just kind of got along. You didn't even talk about it that often. And now society and I think sometimes the media, they live even more in this kind of insulated bubble and they think it's like, you don't have to talk about this. Like, I'm coming to you to just laugh, to enjoy myself. And that's where sports, when they shifted away from that, I would say over the last decade, a lot of people in the sports media, it's like, guys, this guy has a hard job, he's got two kids, his life stressful. When he turns on a sports program, definitely a game, he's just trying to relax. He does not need to get lectured. And one, you don't even know how he thinks. And two, to tell him that he's on the wrong side of history about something, he's going to turn you off. That's not what he's coming for. And the lecture element of so many people, I think in newspapers, on traditional, you know, political shows is just not what a human being. Life's stressful. I got a baby on the way. You know, you got a mortgage, you got, you just got. Your parents are getting older, you just got stresses in life. You don't always need to be lectured.
- [72:23]
John Middlekauff
A lot of people, and this is my take, the traditional media, whether they admit it or not, are often writing and broadcasting to other media for the approval of other media. Podcasters aren't. No, podcasters are talking to the consumer. Joe Rogan is trying to create the most interesting show to the consumer. He does not give two shits about what other podcasters think of him. Traditional media is writing a column that deep down they're seeking the approval of their industry. And I've said this about late night TV over the last eight to ten years. Sometimes Carson did a show for the country. Letterman did it for the inside joke. Letterman didn't care about critics. Carson, I read his books, didn't either. I feel like today's hosts and producers on that late night stuff want to make sure the New Yorker accepts them. They're looking for the article. And I think that's.
- [73:20]
Colin Cowherd
Why would they have 200 people working on a show? I mean, I've been a part of your operation. Could you imagine having 100 people working? I mean, how could you possibly on a one hour show have that many people involved? How many writers do you need? I can't comprehend that, let alone from. And I understand when you're in it, you might not see the balance sheet of like, okay, we're losing $50 million. The company has a better feel for that than maybe the people working on it. But they'd have to have some feel for like, is this really adding up what we're doing here? And they constantly conduct yourself the way they are. To lose $50 million a year, that's insane.
- [73:56]
John Middlekauff
I think late night shows ate themselves alive by talking politics. They turned off younger viewers. Colbert's average audience is 68. He talks politics. So they ate themselves alive that they were getting critical approval. But Colbert's show got older. It turned off young people. It turned off advertisers. Last six years, 50% of ad revenue. Late shows too political, gone. The second thing is, is the only time that Jimmy Kimmel or a Colbert or a Seth Meyers knows his show is going to be great when he wakes up in the morning is if he has another great comedian on it. If Seinfeld's going on Seth Meyers, if the late Norm MacDonald was going on Conan, if Kimmel has Bill Burr, Jimmy wakes up knowing it's a great show. The rest of the time, all those shows have to bring on Hollywood people that they don't really watch or care about their show. You rely on skits or a monologue to hit. And the truth is, Hollywood now is so terrified of saying something that will alienate people within Hollywood that it's fluff. They don't say anything. You go back and watch Letterman actors and actresses, actresses came on and took their tops off. They didn't care. Letterman's people, people were dancing on the set. It was sexual, it was inappropriate. Nobody cared. The only time you get that now on the late night shows is if Bill Burr, Ricky Gervais, John Mulaney, any comedian comes on. That's when the Kimmels wake up in the morning going, burr's on tonight, Chappelle's on tonight. You rely on other comedians who are unfiltered. If you're relying on Hollywood, it is so pressurized not to offend somebody. I mean, whatever you think of Rob Schneider, like when Rob went right with his politics, it's like career over, right? I have a really good. I have like two friends in Hollywood. I don't playing the game at all, but they're like, listen, you can feel it. There are conversations and opinions you're not going to have in these rooms pitching a project. And so I think they ate themselves. Late night TV ate themselves. They got too political, they got too partisan. And the truth is, the only time that I really want to watch late night now is if the host, who's a comedian, has another brilliant comedian. And you get this moment with 15 minutes of two really funny guys shooting the shit, making each other laugh. CONAN and Norm MacDonald, rest in peace, you know, Seinfeld or Seth Meyers, Fallon or like Kimmel gets one of his guys on, you know, that's 15 minutes of great TV.
- [76:40]
Colin Cowherd
Do you think podcasts wipe them out though? A little bit? Because Conan can create a podcast and you can listen to that and it's an easy listen.
- [76:47]
John Middlekauff
Podcasts are more authentic, more raw, more real. When I watch late night tv, it feels neutered, sanitized and edited. And again, the only time it doesn't is when the host, who's a funny guy, comedian, stand up guy, gets another comedian. Then I got 15 minutes of great TV. Other than that, the Hollywood stuff, not remotely interested.
- [77:09]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah, totally agree. All right, buddy, have a good Sunday.
- [77:16]
John Middlekauff
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John Middlekauff
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Colin Cowherd
With them we can be connected here and there.
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Colin Cowherd
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