Colin Cowherd Podcast - Sixers Upset Celtics, LeBron Finds A Way To Win, Wolves Are Underrated, Nuggets Need To Re-Tool

Summary

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The Herd with Colin Cowherd – Detailed Summary

Episode: Sixers Upset Celtics, LeBron Finds A Way To Win, Wolves Are Underrated, Nuggets Need To Re-Tool
Date: May 3, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Colin Cowherd breaks down the biggest NBA playoff storylines: the Philadelphia 76ers’ upset of the Boston Celtics, LeBron James’ continued playoff impact, why the Minnesota Timberwolves are perpetually undervalued, and the pressing need for the Denver Nuggets to reshape their roster for future contention. Joined by analyst Jason Timpf, the discussion is deep, strategic, and often critical, holding major teams and figures accountable while projecting changes and possible future moves.

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1. Sixers Upset the Celtics: Formula vs. Fantastic

Timestamps: 01:53 – 14:19

Key Discussion Points

• Boston’s “Formula” Team:

  • Colin opens by comparing the Celtics to teams like OKC and the Spurs, but notes Boston’s reliance on a formula: “when we hit our threes, we win; when we don’t, we lose.” (02:46)
  • Boston’s formula is contrasted with Philly’s talent. Celtics’ Achilles’ heel was exposed by a healthy Joel Embiid.

• Philadelphia’s Versatility and Embiid’s Impact:

  • Jason Timpf: “Joel Embiid… he’ll bully just about 90% of the centers right off the floor just by going to the basket.” (05:44)
  • Embiid’s return neutralized Boston’s ability to attack the rim and forced them into an all-threes approach.

• Philly’s Unique Roster:

  • “There are very few teams… where you could say, ‘well, they have four separate guys that can score the ball and don’t necessarily need a screen.’” – Colin (09:08)
  • Analyst praise for Paul George, Maxey, and VJ Edgecombe’s athleticism.

• Critique of Joe Mazzulla’s (Celtics coach) Decisions:

  • Questioning Mazzulla’s unconventional Game 7 lineup: “He overthought the room… and you’re playing from behind four minutes into the game.” (09:52)
  • Jason: “That lineup has quite literally not played ever before.” (11:42)

Notable Quotes

• Colin:

  “Boston’s a… they are the Philadelphia Eagles. It’s title, close to a title, or weird way to end the season. It’s an odd… maybe… more formula than fantastic.” (04:56)

• Jason:

  “Boston’s formula ran into a specific kind of kryptonite in the form of a center that neutralized their ability to attack the rim, which turned them into only a three-point shooting team.” (07:16)

• Colin:

  “The Boston starting lineup never happened in playoff history. Three of the guys in their starting lineup didn’t score a point.” (09:26)

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2. The East: Knicks vs. Sixers Preview, Boston’s Future

Timestamps: 14:19 – 20:37

Knicks vs. Sixers Series

• Edge to Knicks, But a Coin Flip:

  • Jason: “No heavy lean… coin flip for me, I lean slightly Knicks because of… home court advantage.” (17:09)
  • Lots rides on the health of Embiid & Paul George.

• Key Matchups and Chess Matches:

  • “The story of the series will be, can Joel Embiid dominate Kat so much they have to put [Mitchell] Robinson on the floor?” (18:29)
  • Embiid as a series-changing presence on both ends; spacing and defensive switches crucial.

• Narrative on the Sixers’ (Under)Achievement:

  • Colin: “Philadelphia… if you’re honest about the Sixers, they’ve underachieved… They’ve had to run through coaches… Simmons… Harden… ‘Trust the Process’… And then you look at [them now], this is actually the most talented team.” (19:26)

Notable Quotes

• Jason:

  “Embiid being Healthy is like the world’s biggest wrench being thrown in this whole damn thing. It’s crazy.” (20:36)

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3. Western Conference: LeBron’s Playoff Genius & Lakers

Timestamps: 25:17 – 32:43

LeBron James vs. Kevin Durant

• LeBron’s Versatility and Leadership:

  • Colin: “[LeBron] just squeezes the juice out of every part of the game… You count out LeBron, and I’m not surprised.” (27:27)
  • Jason: “His ability to impact winning in so many different ways… pivotal moments of the series… when everything was up in the air, he had his best game of the series.” (27:51)

• Comparing KD and LeBron’s Impacts:

  • Colin with a memorable analogy:

    “KD is like buying a boat. The first day you have it and the first day you sell it are the two happiest days.” (26:54)
    “...the gap with KD and LeBron, for anybody that was still clinging to that, like, stop.” (29:18)

  • KD seen as “playing in a silo,” less of a leader for younger teams; the contrast with LeBron’s psychological mastery of the moment.

• Deandre Ayton’s Playoff Surge:

  • “LeBron was feeding him the ball…LeBron’s ability to squeeze more out of Deandre Ayton, who has always been an emotional, a little bit of a temperamental [player]… I thought he had a tremendous series.” (30:16)

Notable Quotes

• Colin:

  “That’s where LeBron’s aged well as a human and as a basketball player. He’s just a very current player.” (29:59) “There’s a psychology to these playoff series, and LeBron just plays his cards very smartly.” (31:40)

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4. The Underrated Wolves, The Rise of the West’s Defense

Timestamps: 34:23 – 42:41

Wolves and Conference Dynamics

• Minnesota’s Construction and Potential Undervaluation:

  • Colin: “You start looking at the construct of that roster, that GM is up for the Bulls GM job... coaching staff to bottom of the roster. Have we just undervalued them for three years?” (36:36)
  • Jason: Tim Connelly built both Denver and Minnesota’s strong, athletic rosters. Now Minnesota ends Denver’s era. (37:05)

• San Antonio vs. Minnesota Matchup:

  • Jason: “I think there’s a great value opportunity on the Minnesota side because I think this is going to be a very competitive series.” (37:43)
  • Julius Randle is a “Wemby-stopper”; the Wolves have unique tools against San Antonio’s length and defense.

• Trust in San Antonio?:

  • Colin: “Aren’t we still asking the question, do you really trust San Antonio? It’s 101-101, four minutes left. I mean, do we trust him yet? We know we will eventually trust him.” (39:57)

Noteworthy Observations

• The West is defined by defense: “Spurs, Oklahoma City, Minnesota… they can lock you down… that’s where the Lakers have to make a leap.” (34:56)
• Praise for “incidental” scorers like OG Anunoby and Jaden McDaniels.

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5. Denver Nuggets: The Urgency to Re-Tool

Timestamps: 42:41 – 47:53

Assessing Denver’s Core and Trade Possibilities

• Time for a Big Change?

  • Colin draws parallels with Milwaukee: “Denver ripped the Band-Aid off. Don’t do a Milwaukee, don’t cling to these older guys.” (42:42)
  • Jamal Murray and Aaron Gordon are valuable, but: “I would consider moving him [Murray]. Aaron Gordon, durability issues… I’d move him.” (43:21)

• Building Around Jokic:

  • “Jokic is going to age better because he’s more nuanced… I would build everything around him.” (43:29)

• Possible Trade Packages:

  • Jason: “If you can get CJ McCollum to agree to come over, I think that makes Jamal Murray expendable.” (43:50)
  • Other trade options: Derek White (Celtics); teams with surplus athletes (Houston, Orlando); need to find a vertical lob threat for Jokic.

• Critical Skills Needed:

  • “You’re going to have to hit a home run on a value somewhere.” (44:54)
  • “The specific dynamic they’re missing… a big, athletic, like, rim protector behind Jokic on defense, but a vertical space, a lob threat for Jokic to throw lobs to.” (45:09)

Notable Quotes

• Colin:

  “Denver… our big is going to age better. Our big is just more dexterity offensively. But let’s not, you know, you start looking at the league. Even Houston, which loses when they get Van Vliet back. Houston’s got… they can make multiple moves.” (46:54)

• Jason:

  “You just can’t trade for Aaron Gordon if you need him to play 82 games for you.” (47:39)

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Memorable Moments & Mic Drop Quotes

• “Boston’s formula ran into a specific kind of kryptonite in the form of a center that neutralized their ability to attack the rim…” – Jason (07:16)
• “[LeBron’s] ability to just squeeze the juice out of every part of the game.” – Colin (27:27)
• “KD is like buying a boat. The first day you have it and the first day you sell it are the two happiest days.” – Colin (26:54)
• “Have we just undervalued (Minnesota) for three years?” – Colin (36:36)
• “You just can’t trade for Aaron Gordon if you need him to play 82 games for you.” – Jason (47:39)

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Key Takeaways and Themes

• Championship Teams Need More than a Formula: The Celtics’ heavy reliance on three-point variance and lack of individual dynamism was their undoing against a uniquely tough Embiid-led Sixers.
• Playoff LeBron is a Different Animal: Leadership and adaptability matter more than ever; the contrast with KD’s leadership was especially highlighted.
• The Wolves are for Real: Minnesota’s roster construction and recent playoff experience make them more dangerous than their reputation suggests.
• Western Conference Power Shift: New defensive juggernauts (OKC, Wolves, Spurs) are emerging, and teams like Denver must adapt or fade.
• Urgency for Roster Evolution: Denver (and similarly, Milwaukee) must be proactive in re-tooling around their core as the league gets younger, faster, and more versatile.

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For Listeners Who Missed It

This episode delivered a rapid-fire, big-picture assessment of the 2026 NBA playoff landscape, with Colin and Jason fusing smart analysis and sharp opinions. The focus was not only on results—but on the underlying roster philosophies and seismic trends shaping the league’s future. The conversational style was opinionated, witty, and often critical, making for an engaging, illuminating listen for any NBA fan.

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Transcript

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[A]

Yeah. The formula is dependent on circumstances kind of going a certain way for them to succeed. And what I mean by that is like, it became abundantly clear to me that there were two things missing for the Celtics as the series progressed. And Joel Embiid came back. When you have Joel Embiid enter the equation, he's just such a bizarre matchup. He's so big and strong. He'll bully just about, you know, 90% of the centers right off the floor just by going to the basket.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

He also represents a great rim protector on the other end of the floor. Yep. And. And what ends up happening in the playoffs is like, it's not so much because we call it. This is two top tier contenders for me that lost in the first round. Denver and Boston were teams that I had as top tier contenders and they're gone now. Half of my half of that tier is gone for me now. So like. But what's fascinating is the NBA playoffs are you have to beat four different types of teams in successive two week windows. And so it's as much about versatility as it is about your upside. And Denver, as we've known for years now, really struggles against Minnesota. It's like that's the team and them running into them in the first round. They failed the first test and it prevented them from even getting a chance to go up against some of the more advanced tests later on. Boston, similarly, like, I actually think this was the worst possible team for them to run into, a healthy Joel Embiid team. Because when Joel Embiid came back into the series, he rendered their entire defensive starting rotation at the center position useless. None of them could guard Embiid. And previous iterations of the Celtics could really space the floor without Horford. And so they could pull Embiid away from the rim in this series. Embiid was sitting right there. And so what had worked all season for the Celtics was like these Jalen Brown isos in the middle of the floor. But it turns out he's easier to guard when Embiid sitting right behind him at the basket. So now every Philly player Has an easy job. Just press up into him, play the jumper. If he goes around you, Embiid's waiting right there. And so one, one of the most interesting things about this series was like, it's like Boston's formula ran into a specific kind of kryptonite in the form of a center that neutralize their ability to attack the rim, which turned them into only a three point shooting team.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then on the, and then on the other end of the FL floor, they, they just literally couldn't guard the guy. Like from, from the, from the second half of game five, he just was completely unguardable and Boston had no answers for him. And it's something to keep in mind because like, it's the same thing with Detroit and Orlando. Like, Detroit just ran into a team that they couldn't bully in Orlando. And so all of a sudden they're fighting for their life all series long. Next round, they might be able to bully Cleveland. They might be able to throw around James Harden and Donovan Mitchell and throw around Jared Allen and Evan Mobley. Like, it's so fascinating, Colin, the way that can just knock you out in an early round.

[B]

Well, and you know, like Sixer fans are like, you didn't believe in Embiid and it's like, no, no, no. He's a bit of a tease. So three years ago he was the MVP and then he averages 33 games a season the next week. It's not that we don't think he's talented, but he, you know, I mean, his early comp was Shaq. That was the early comp on him. So like, everybody knew he was great, but he, you know, Shaq struggled with weight and then his feet and then his desire and then his focus and he just struggles with health. And so it's not like people, I mean, it's not like when you watched the Sixers. We don't. I don't respect their talent. Of course you do. I mean, when Paul George and Embiid are both healthy playing like that. Okay. I mean, Paul George, you're like, there's an argument. Five years ago, Paul was the best two way player in the league. Right. And so like OG now for the Knicks is in that space where he's just a guy that can. Every coach in the league, on the air or off, will tell you, you know, anybody in the NBA that will say it, you know, oh geez. Of just. He's much Bridges may get some pub. Oh geez. The superior player. He's an unbelievable talent. And so I think Philadelphia is just a. It's just kind of a fascinating team because when healthy, they're really special. I mean, they're very, very few teams in the league where you could say, well, they have four separate guys that can score the ball and don't necessarily need a screen. Like, they can just get the ball. That's rare. You mean, how many guys in the league have that? 16, 20. Like, most guys need a screen, a pick and roll. Most guys need assistance. So, I mean, it's, it's, you know, that weird. I thought that was. The Boston starting lineup never happened in playoff history. Three of the guys in their starting lineup didn't score a point. So it's like you're going up against Embiid and Maxi, and you got guys that haven't started that don't have playoff experience. It's like, what are you doing? I mean, that was. I think you called it. It was. He overthought. Missoula overthought the room. And then, oh, by the way, then you're playing from behind four minutes into the game, you're chasing, which, you know, you're expanding so much energy. So I just thought Boston's a. And they are the Philadelphia Eagles. It's title. Close to a title or weird way to end the season. It's an odd. The whole, you know, maybe. I mean, I. Did you agree with not playing Tatum? I mean, hobbled in game six at the end?

[A]

Yes. And here's why. Well, first of all, the, the, the funniest thing about the Philly thing is, like, I've. I swear, all of us have covered our bases on this. Like, what's the conversation with the Sixers before every season? It's like, well, if Joel Embiid is healthy, if Paul George is healthy. And like, that's the thing. They both are and they're both playing great. So just about like 90% of the data we got from this team in the regular season is useless. Like, I was prepping for the Knicks series. Paul George was awful in the three games he played against the Knicks this year. So, like, like, what do you make of that? When the dude's been like, prime Paul George over the last week, like, it's a completely different kind of team when all these guys are healthy and they have a speed at the guard position now with VJ Edgecomb alongside Maxi, that makes them super, super dynamic. And that will be interesting for Nick Series. But on the Celtics front, yeah, like, it's, it's the, the, the thing that I thought was a mistake, specifically with Missoula, that I think he'll regret is, like, your best. A game like that is to make Philly nervous and like to. To have them face either an early deficit or an early run where all of a sudden they're, like, feeling the pressure of a game seven. And that helps your young players, too. Like, if Baylor Shireman's shooting a wide open three in their tide or up by three or four, it feels like an easier, lower pressure shot than if you're down 7. And if we miss this shot, it's like the air gets sucked out of the arena. And Colin, like, there was a play early in the game, I'm sure you remember it, where Jalen Brown drove left and he went to throw a pass across his body to the right side. There was nobody there, and it just went right to the Celtics bench. And it was because all the Celtics players were lined up on the left side of the floor. And it's because that lineup has quite literally not played ever before. So they've never kind of figured out where to stand with each other, their spacing, like. Like, how to kind of be a unit. And so you come out and you botch these early offensive possessions, and Joel Embiid walks into some of the easiest shots he got all series to start the game. So now they're up 11 4, and now Philly is relaxed, and all the pressure is on Boston. So I just thought that was a tactical mistake on Joe Missoula's part. The thing with Tatum, and this is where I think they made the right decision, Two things. One, Philly looked like the better team when Joel Embiid was healthy, even when Tatum was on the floor, it had flipped the dynamic so dramatically on both ends because Boston didn't have an avenue with which to pull Embiid away from the rim. And then on the other end of the floor, they couldn't guard Embiid even with a healthy Tatum. So I think there was a pretty decent chance that Philly wins that game even if Tatum plays. So what I think they did that was smart is they looked at the situation, and they went this East. Cleveland doesn't look that good. Philly, miraculously is healthy now, but who knows what will happen next year. Orlando is a mess. Detroit looks like they're multiple moves away. I think Brad Stevens has got to be looking at this, like, great season. We can win this thing next year. Yeah, if we make a couple of quality tweaks on the margins. And I think the two main things they need Is to your point about being dynamic. I think they need a guard who can beat people off the dribble, like a fast guard. They do not have that. I think that's something they need. And then two, they need best player available in that like center slash, big power forward, like big front court player type of.

[B]

Would you make a deal for Aaron Gordon of the Nuggets?

[A]

I think, yeah. I think I've. I've been canvasing around trying to find a couple of different things that make sense and I think. I think the one that I. I've looked at is that Derek White for Aaron Gordon move where if I'm Denver, I'm probably asking for like Hugo Gonzalez as well. So if I'm Denver, I'm getting Derek White an awesome defensive guard who can really shoot and I'm getting an athlete at the forward position which is what they so desperately need. And then, and if I'm. And then if I'm Boston, what I'm getting back is I have the depth if I'm Boston to be like Aaron play when you play, when you feel great, right? Be. Be Andre Guadala for us. Like, oh, you feel great tonight. You're playing. You have any soreness, you sit out because. Because they have Jordan Walsh and they have Baylor Scheireman and they have Tatum back next year. They don't need him to play big minutes. But then it's like big playoff game.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Gordon Tatum, Brown next to each other, this massive, super versatile front line that can win you a playoff series.

[B]

Also he's played in the west which is deeper, more athletic, more youthful. So he goes from the west playing in the East. I think the Denver shopping Gordon. I mean I think he would fit in a lot of places. Phoenix, Lakers have been mentioned, but I think that's a move I would make if I was the Celtics. I just feel like experience, toughness. He'd work in their culture. You know, if you think of the New York, the Knicks Phillies series is kind of fascinating. So you have, first of all, you have Cat and Embiid who hate and they're really, really gifted offensive players. I mean the Knicks in the last several games in the series, he was a point center. I mean, say what you want about Cat. I've seen Cat play probably five times in person. I had this weird thing where for years I would go to a Laker or a Clipper game and it was always the T Wolves. So I saw Wiggins Cat. Cat's an incredible offensive player. Embiid's obviously better Embiid's the better defensive player. And then you go to the wing and it's OG who again is in a short list of two way players in the league. Paul George, healthy, Mikhail Bridges. That's probably an edge to the Knicks. But then Edgecomb and Maxi, you get really fast, dynamic young guys. Brunson, you know, is not much of a defender. So I feel like it's. It the series. I think the Knicks are a slight favorite. I'm like, very slight.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I think it's a coin flip. If you told me Embiid and Paul George were healthy, I'd probably take Philadelphia narrowly. A lot of it is because I think they can defend the rim a little better. Although Mitchell Robinson's a very good rim defender for the Knicks. So I mean, I think it's a. Neither one has great bench scoring. So it's like it's your. It's your starting fives. I mean, do you have a. Do you have a heavy lean in that series?

[A]

No heavy lean. I. So I just did all my prep for it today and I. And I recorded my series preview a little over an hour ago and I just like you coin flip for me, Eileen. Slightly nix because of like, literally just small things like home court advantage. I think they're a tiny bit different, deeper, and there's a couple more ways that they can kind of evolve their team to fit the situation. Whereas Philly, it's like they're five guys or their five guys. That's who they're going down with. It's Uber. It's Paul George, it's Maxi, it's vj, it's Embiid. But there's so many interesting dynamics here because Embiid and Cat hate each other and they have history and Embiid wants to dominate Cat the la. They. The last time they played each other in the regular season, they had a game in Philly or in New York. Excuse me, where. Or. No, it wasn't Philly, but it doesn't matter. Cat literally fouled out in 16 minutes. Colin, like Embiid. Embiid got like four of the fouls on it. Like. Like in. In got him off the floor. But then the Knicks ended up. But to the point about being kind of able to evolve. The Knicks won that game going small with OG Anunoby guarding Embiid and spacing him out and. And Bead look lost on defense down the stretch of that game as he was trying to cover in space against all of that speed that the Knicks had. But then like Tyrese Maxey has been amazing in this matchup because nobody on the Knicks is fast enough.

[B]

Nobody.

[A]

To me. To me, the story of the series will be, can Joel Embiid dominate Cat so much that they have to put

[B]

Robinson on the floor?

[A]

That he has to put Robinson on the floor, because if he had to, if he has to put Robinson on the floor, that creates the identical dynamic that just got Boston beat, which is Embiid can sit his ass under the rim and then he can control the game defensively. If they are able to play Cat at the five a lot, and what that will involve is double teaming, most likely. But if they're able to play Cat at the five a lot, I think they'll just chew up Embiid in open space. And so that really is the chess match of the series, is how much can Embiid force Mike Brown to play Mitchell Robinson. And I think that'll be the thing we're watching all series long is just how well they can defend with Mitchell Robinson off the floor against Embiid. It's going to be a great one. That, that, that feels like a vintage Eastern Conference playoff battle.

[B]

I mean, it really. It's so funny because I came in thinking, man, some of these, some of these matchups, I don't know, you could not have done better than Knicks Sixers, that's a really. And you could say Celtics, but a few years ago, the Celtics were in the Finals, won the title. The ratings weren't good. New York's guaranteed numbers. And there is something about New York and Philly in their proximity. And also Philadelphia has lost these kind of series. Philadelphia can't. I mean, they've really, if you're honest about the Sixers, they've underachieved this. You know, I mean, we have a great gm. They've had to run through coaches. There was the Simmons, there was the Harden. They've had all these experiments, and it's like, draft the tallest guy for eight years. Trust the process. You're like, and this is the team. We're all like, well, nobody's healthy. Let's forget about it. And then you look at, you're like, oh, this is actually the most talented team and the components.

[A]

And beats the best player in the conference. And beats the best player in the conference, like, by, like, comfortably when he's healthy now, like, like, I like Brunson, but he doesn't have the upside that Embiid has. And neither does Donovan Mitchell, neither does maybe Kate Cunningham. Like, Embiid. Embiid being Healthy is like the world's biggest wrench being thrown in this whole damn thing. It's crazy.

[B]

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All right, we go to the west. I mean, Lakers, OKC, J.J. redick said it. He said, like, this is one of the great defenses ever. He goes, they're top five in everything and they don't foul. He said, you know, they're so fast, they're so quick. It's a rough matchup again. Austin Reeves now has a few extra days to get in shape and kind of get in rhythm. Cross your fingers. I mean, if Luka played. It would be the classic offensive team versus defensive team. I think it would be a really fun matchup. I don't know how good it is. Then Minnesota, San Antonio. There's also, you know, let's just go back to LeBron. It was interesting watching that series. And there was a time years ago, and I think it was when KD was for the warriors, and there was this narrative because he was winning championships. KD's better than LeBron. And I always think the truth comes out over the course of time in any profession, you know, the truth comes out. And I think the Houston Lakers series was the definitive exclamation point, that LeBron's not only better, but the gap is much bigger than people realize. Is that Ryan, on my show, my producer had a funny line. He said, KD is like buying a boat. The first day you have it and the first day you sell it are the two happiest days. It comes in. It's amazing. You do have great times, but there's maintenance. You're left disappointed, then you get rid of it, and you're like, yeah, that was a lot. It really didn't. It was fun a couple times a year, and it's like. But the gap between the two is that LeBron's ability, and it's really something. There's never been anything like it. Magic was kind of close, but not nearly as athletic. His ability. LeBron is so smart, and his ability to just squeeze the juice out of every part of the game. I just. I watched that series, and it was like, you guys just. You count out LeBron, and I'm not surprised. You know, I say to people all the time, when Brady retired from Tampa, he was still a top three quarterback. He'd go back today and be top six. He's in as good a shape now. It's like LeBron's going to retire because he gets tired of the travel, he gets tired of practice. It's like, who are we kidding here? I mean, six minutes to go in these games. You need them on the floor. I mean, just an incredible. I mean, I just watched that series, and I'm like, boy, the gap with KD and LeBron, for anybody that was still clinging to that, like, stop. I mean, that was one of my takeaways the entire series.

[A]

It's the versatility. It's the way that he can impact winning in so many different ways, where in each specific circumstance that the Lakers have found themselves in this year, he's found a way to be a positive impact. And like to your point about him being kind of mentally fatigued from the NBA grind, like, like that's the thing is like you will find these stretches in the regular season where he looks flat out bad. And like, even, even in the playoffs, like in game four, you could tell LeBron was like, I don't have it tonight. These young kids are going to beat us. And he goes for like 10 points and he just looks like he's lost most of the night. But in every like pivotal moment of the series, like between games one and two, when he was pulling the team away originally clutch time of Game 3, when that game was gettable late, when all of a sudden he's like, all right, we got one bucket, one stop, we're going to win. And then game six, when everything was hanging like when all everything was up, up in the air, he had his best game of the series. I thought he came out in that series or in game six and like brought like an intensity that like literally shrunk the rockets. Like LeBron was like a force of competitive will on the floor that wilted the young Rockets team. They looked scared of the moment as LeBron and like he took like these shots in that game. Like he had a couple of threes in the second quarter of that game that were like, I'm going to SAP your guys of your, you guys if your confidence. Types of threes were like, it's like pull up, transition three. It's not even a good shot, but it's like he's doing it specifically to, to win the mental battle on the floor, to, you know, kind of control things. And he just posted up nonstop in that series and, and brought the physical force when needed. And frankly, Colin, I'm so glad you called it an exclamation point because it was literally one of my favorite moments being a fan of his. One of my favorite moments of his career was just old man LeBron, go get a playoff series. And it was, it was the 13th largest upset in the IS since 1988 by Moneyline. It was a very impressive upset.

[B]

And I, and I know that Katie didn't play much in this. What do you play one game in the series?

[A]

Yeah, one game.

[B]

Yeah. But the difference is if you looked at the net rating, and this was kind of my point, Kevin Durant, the Rockets were better when he was off the floor. There was never a moment that the Lakers were better in this series when 41 year old LeBron was off the floor. And that is the secret gift where like when Brett Favre Got old. He didn't relate to younger teammates. Brady got old, and the young guys loved him. And it's like I've said, that's where LeBron's aged well as a human and as a basketball player. Like, he's current. Like, he's just a very current player. Whereas KD's game, which is sort of, this is my game, I'm going to play kind of in a silo. Then there's the Burner account, allegedly. And you saw the gap in the two. Whereas there appeared to be the Rockets with KD and without him, and they were better without him. Like, there's two different teams. And that tells you the disconnect between an old star and young team teammates. And yet. And you know, LeBron activated this during the series. Deandre Ayton was tremendous. I mean, Deandre Ayton and I kept saying this on FS1. Deandre's always been moody, and when he feels like he's the third or the fourth offensive option, he. He kind of closes down. Well, you could tell in this series, like, LeBron was feeding him the ball they were making him feel. And that Phoenix, Portland, the rep was always the same thing. If he doesn't feel like he's at least the second option, he can just quit playing defense. I thought Ayton played spectacularly well, and now some of that is because Luka didn't play, and he gets more touches. But the ability for LeBron to squeeze more out of Deandre Ayton, who has always been an emotional, a little bit of a temperamental. You're not quite sure emotionally what you're getting. I don't think that's unfair. I think that's fairly well documented. And I thought he had a tremendous series. So I just. That's LeBron's ability to just. There's a psychology to these playoff series, and LeBron just plays his cards very smartly.

[A]

You have to breathe confidence into your team. We talked about this last week, like. Like, half the battle there is getting your guys to believe they can go in on the road and win a playoff game like that, even after they got beat tw. And that's the thing that has always been lacking with the Kevin Durant piece of this is like, that he. He's even kind of, like, disregarded the leadership role. He's. He's talked about this in the past. He'll say things like, oh, like, I lead by example. Or like, leadership is. Is. Is kind of this ethereal concept, and it's like, yeah, it is ethereal in the sense that it can take many different shapes, but it's the same thing. It's. It's getting, it's getting a group of guys to believe in a larger goal and to all be swimming in the same direction. And that does require involvement. You can't backseat that sort of thing. You. And, you know, to your point about the difference between KD and LeBron it's like if you can cultivate a perfect set of circumstances where like, boom, somebody's doing the leadership stuff for him.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

Someone's doing all the, someone's doing all the ball handling for him and he can just function as like a defensive cog and a play finisher, slash scorer on offense. It's like the perfect circumstance for him. Which, by the way, like, why I, I keep thinking Houston's the best Giannis team. Because one of the things with Shangun is Sengun, to me is a guy that I don't think you can win a championship with, even at his, even in his theoretical ceiling. Because like, the one guy who was good enough on offense at that position to be a bad defender and win the title really was Jokic, right? But it's. He was bigger and he was a transcendently great offensive player. Shangun is smaller and he has nowhere near the touch, nowhere near the playmaking talent. So I don't think his ceiling on offense is nearly high enough. So what I would do if I was Houston is I actually think they're better off leaning into the present than leaning into the future. So I would call up Milwaukee this summer and I'd be like, here's Shangoon, here's Jabari Smith, here's a first round draft pick or two, whatever it is that they haggle over. Now, I've got Giannis, I've got kd, I've got Fred Van Vliet coming back. I've got a man, Thompson. Even some of their role players, like, you know, Dorian, Finney, Smith is an older guy. You know, you still have some youthful energy in there. Like, we'll see if they can retain Tari Eason. They still have Reed Shepherd. That's a team that's like, kind of interesting in the west. And, and I think they're better off kind of leaning into that. And then what you have in the future is like, okay, it's a two year contending, three year contending window. It breaks apart. You still have a man, Thompson. You have some ability to look towards the future. To me, it's punting on the specific youthful foundational asset in Shangun that I don't think is the guy that's going to carry you to the promised land. Certainly not in the West.

[B]

Well, how good would Houston be defensively? And that may be the way to beat San Antonio and to beat okc. And Minnesota is just defense, you know, people.

[A]

And Giannis can be the leader.

[B]

That's right. Giannis and Amen Thompson would be two of the top five defenders in the league. And they're intimidating defenders. Like, Amen is an intimidating physical presence. He gets in you. And Giannis, again, changes some level of calculus about attacking the basket. So, you know, it's. I mean, the one thing the Spurs, Oklahoma City, Minnesota all have in common, and this is kind of the gap the Lakers don't, is they can lock you down. They can really change. I mean, that's where the Lakers have to make. You know, it's really funny. Like, I think the Lakers. I think Aaron Gordon would work for the Lakers. I. You know, the player I've said like three times on this podcast that I think fits perfectly with the lakers is Jaden McDaniels.

[A]

Oh, my God. He did. You know, they drafted him originally. Yes.

[B]

He's literally the perfect. I mean, he would literally be. He would be their elite wing defender who has these crazy offensive games where you just look up and you're like. And he's one of those guys that you don't have to. You don't have to dial up a lot of plays for him. He can be an incidental scorer. You look it up and he has 18, and you didn't. You didn't dial his number up a lot.

[A]

There's some corollaries with OG to your point, as like a role player star, more or less at that position.

[B]

You don't have to. You don't have to run that many plays through him, but OG ends up with 24. And it's, you know, a lot of. It's just effort, transition, and you look up and he's got 24 points. So Minnesota, San Antonio, you know, it's. It's really interesting to me that we've just basically anointed. It's a Spurs, it's a Spurs Thunder Conference, and maybe Denver could sneak in. But what Minnesota does. And Ant is reportedly might play in game one. And. And. But Minnesota's this team that would. If you put them in the east, they would just fly through people. There's just so much size. And Minnesota quietly. And they had another quirky. You know, they had another Quirky regular season where you look up and you're like, what are they? I'm watching Minnesota. The reality of that team. To be able to get these 24 point outbursts from players that aren't like offensive players. I think Minnesota, every sport has this. You start looking at the construct of that roster, that GM is up for the Bulls GM job and it's like, I don't know. I mean, I look at Minnesota and I'm like coaching staff to the bottom of the roster. Have we just undervalued them for three years?

[A]

It's been super fascinating to watch Tim Connolly and the team that he built in Denver, which was a lot more athletic than people remember. If you remember because you had, you had kcp Bruce Brown and. And obviously Aaron Gordon at that phase of his career.

[B]

Michael Porter.

[A]

Michael Porter, yeah, exactly. And kind of a belief in size too. Like it was. You would 6, 10, 6, 10, 7ft at, at those three positions. And then he goes to Minnesota and he constructs a team that literally like ends the Denver Nuggets current era. It's a really a remarkable immediately by

[B]

the way, very quickly.

[A]

Yeah, I think, Colin, I know that the, the line is absurd on this one. The line is almost as crazy on this one as it is in the, in the Lakers Thunder series. And I think that there's a great value opportunity on the Minnesota side because I think this is going to be a very competitive series. So do I. I'm picking San Antonio, but I think it's close and there's a couple of specific things. First of all, Julius Randall, there have been a couple of guys this year that have been able to really give Wemby problems in one on one defense. And Aaron Gordon was one of them. That was a big part of why Denver, when they're healthy, presented a big problem for San Antonio. But the other one was Julius Randall. Julius Randall's. You need like there. A wing is too small, a center is too slow. But if you've got a big bully ball physical forward that can get up underneath Wemby, he can struggle to get by him and turn into a really difficult three point or like a like, like long distance jump shooter. And so between them putting go bear on Steph Castle and being like go ahead and shoot threes, we're going to park him by the rim. And Julius Randall up underneath Wemby and Jada McDaniels and having athletic, athletic perimeter dudes that are going to get up underneath San Antonio's guards, I think they're going to Be able to guard San Antonio. Well, automatically means these are close games. And in close games, it's like hits a step back three in the right time, you get away.

[B]

Look, look at the experience factor that Minnesota had. There's a lot of playoffs. Look how many playoff games these. Julius Randle's been in. I mean, you're talking about ants now. Been in several big series. Like, I think that's. To me, it feels like a 6, 7 game series. It really does. The experience, the coaching. I think we just, I think we overlook Minnesota because I think we're so glommed on to the future with San Antonio and the present with OKC and the Lakers always get a lot of publicity. And it's like, hey, guys, Minnesota has been in these Western Conference finals. These guys all have multiple road playoff wins. I think it's. I think it's going to be. Yeah, I think it's going to be a really good series. I mean, aren't we still asking the question, do you really trust San Antonio? It's 101, 101. Four minutes left. I mean, do we trust him yet? We know we will eventually trust him. We trust okc. I don't know if I trust him again.

[A]

In a close game late, because they played a bunch of really close games this year. Ant had a game where he had 55 and they lost, but they lost on a couple of clutch shots by Wembanyama, a couple of clutch jumpers that he hit. There was a game that Minnesota won where Ant hit the game winner. And it was the same kind of thing. Julius Randall was really guarding Wemby well. And then Ant was able to get Victor on a switch for the game winner. And he drove right around him and hit a little floater off the glass. Like. They present real matchup problems for San Antonio in, in several position groups. And so the one reason why I would lean towards San Antonio is I think they're going to be able to guard Minnesota really well too. This is the dynamic that like, like Minnesota made it to the conference finals each of the last two years, and who did they lose to? Chet with Lou Dort on the ball and like Lively, Lively Gafford with Derek Jones on the ball. Like, if you can put a, a big rim protector in an athlete on Ant, you can usually get enough stops to cause the problems for, for Minnesota. And so I do think we're gonna. I think we're gonna run into a similar dynamic from the Knicks series. Where can the Wolves play without Rudy Gobert in some big Spots that could be a big part of the series because they're going to have to find a way to get Victor women, Yama away from the rim. That's going to be a great series. Honestly, it's crazy that the Lakers are in the second round. They might be the most boring second round series because they're going to get their butts kicked.

[B]

You know, it's interesting. Usually the first round of the NBA is chalk, you know, and yet we've had these wild upsets. And I was thinking about that today. We've had multiple wild upsets. And I think that's the advantage to having one potentially great team. Okc. I think if they win back to back, you start looking at their numbers and their depth and it's like, okay, historically it's, it's pretty damn convincing. But we don't have. I mean, it's. I mean, I always say there's great teams. We have almost none. There's very good teams. San Antonio, okc. I thought Boston was when they were healthy. And then there's good teams and a lot of these. Detroit, I mean, I think New York's a good team with some real defensive issues. Philadelphia has no bench. I think they're a good team that when they're healthy, which is infrequent, they have very good nights. And they had a couple of them against Boston. But I'll go back to Embiid. Is that like Sixer fan is like, why don't we get respect? It's not respect. Embiid's just the world's biggest tease. We're just, we don't know. We just never know if he's going to play. I mean, think of the bigs that are left. Embiid's left, Cats left, Gobert's left, Wemby's back, Holmgren's left. Go Bear. I mean, we got, we have, you know, for all the people. Small Bally.

[A]

Yeah. Alan Mobley. Yeah. Like.

[B]

Like there's the game's bigs. I mean, Giannis is one of the. And they've got issues. I will say this. I've read a ton about Denver and it, it feels like, you know, I said this the other day. Denver ripped the band aid off. Don't do a Milwaukee, don't cling to these older guys. Chris Middleton, Brook Lopez, like, make a move. And because Jamal Murray finally made an all star team, not very athletic and he had a. He, you know, he didn't have a very good series. There are times that he, you know, he can be A little hot and cold. I would consider moving him. Aaron Gordon, durability issues, Love him. Going to have a really good market. I would move him. I mean, I think my take on Denver Giannis isn't going to age brilliantly because he's hyper athletic. So I've said before I would move Giannis. I would have done it three years ago. You got your title. Jokic is going to age better because he's more nuanced. Layered shooting, screening, distribution. I would build everything around him. So I would kind of make several huge moves. Would you move off Gordon and Murray? Colin?

[A]

This has been the hardest one for me. I spent all day today, well, not all day, but a long time today, just like looking around the league being like, what the hell does Denver do? And to your point, they have to do something pretty drastic. I would start by doing a little bit of research with CJ McCollum's camp and I'd be like, hey, is there any chance we can get you to come take a mid level exception with us? Because if you can get CJ McCollum to agree to come over, I think that makes Jamal Murray expendable. I think you run into some dangerous territory if you get rid of Jamal and you don't have a dude who can hit a pull up jump shot. Because that is just an important. I know, I know Jamal came up short this year, but it's a big part of winning in the playoffs. So like, if they were able to convince CJ McCollum to come over, I think I, I like the idea of potentially moving Jamal.

[B]

Also, he's a super veteran, high EQ iq. You can't bring a kid in with Jokic. Like, you need a guy that gets the league. I mean, that's a good fit. Honestly, just because CJ's such a bright

[A]

player, he'd be perfect. He, like, when I was looking around, I was like, that's the perfect dude. Because you have to, you're going to have to hit a home run on a value somewhere. And to me, getting CJ on an exception is your value play. Everything else is about kind of swapping, right? Because if you get, if you're going to give up an Aaron Gordon, you're going to get back something similar, like a, a player who's on a big contract who probably isn't like an amazing Jaden McDaniels level player. Because otherwise why would you take Aaron Gordon back, right? Like, you're gonna have to be dealing with some flaws. Like Derek White, for example, just had his Worst jump shooting season with the Boston Celtics. So that's why there might be some. Some value there, because it's two kind of flawed veteran players that are making around 30 million. So it makes some sense there. Right. So we talked about the Aaron Gordon for. For Derek White swap. The other team that I'd consider calling with, Jamal Murray, is a team that could use a. A ball handling guard. So maybe Houston or maybe Orlando. Those are two teams that have a surplus of athletes that have a need for ball handling and jump shooting. Jamal Murray is a guy that you could call in that sort of case. I think the specific dynamic that they're missing that they need is what Aaron Gordon brought when he was young, which was like a big, athletic, like, rim protector behind Jokic on defense, but a vertical space, a lob threat for Jokic to throw lobs to. How many times did he get downhill and throw it to Christian Brow? Christian Brown would just get scared and run back out because he couldn't finish in traffic. Like, they need a vertical spacer under the rim. So I thought about, like, maybe a Dembona out of Philly. That's a guy that I think could play a little bit with Jokic. I thought about one of the Gafford lively duo in Dallas. Like, what if they called Dallas and they were like, Jamal Murray for PJ Washington and Daniel Gafford. And so now we've got a forward and a center that we can play alongside Jokic. But again, I don't like the idea of giving up Jamal. Jamal because his skill set is so unique. I don't like the idea of giving up Jamal unless, you know, you can get CJ on the other side of it. Because I think you just solve one problem and create another.

[B]

In that case, yeah, I think Denver's. But I like the idea that Denver kind of looks at Milwaukee and says, listen, we both got our title. Our big is going to age better. Our. Our big is just more dexterity offensively. But let's not, you know, you start looking at the league. Even Houston, which loses when they get Van Vliet back. Houston's got. They can make multiple moves. They've got really good young players and they got picks. Yep. I mean, to me, Houston's going to have a great offseason and Denver can play around. So Aaron Gordon and Jamal Murray both have, I think, will have a significant market. I mean, Aaron Gordon is just so athletic. There's a durability issue, but as the league gets younger, I think there's real value in getting like playoff minute guys, playoff experience. I mean, look, we're talking as long

[A]

as you can sit him in the regular season, as long as you can keep his minutes low. I think he makes sense for a variety of teams. You just can't trade for Aaron Gordon if you need him to play 82 games for you.

[B]

Jason Timp, hoops tonight. Good talking, buddy.

[A]

Good to see you. Colin.

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