Colin Cowherd Podcast - Stafford To Giants? Bills Should Trade For Garrett, NFL Combine Preview, Is Streaming Bad For Sports? Travis Hunter Should Play CB

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Herd with Colin Cowherd Episode: "Stafford To Giants? Bills Should Trade For Garrett, NFL Combine Preview, Is Streaming Bad For Sports? Travis Hunter Should Play CB"
Release Date: February 24, 2025
Host: Colin Cowherd
Produced by: iHeartPodcasts and The Volume

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1. ESPN’s Sports Broadcasting Strategy: NBA, NHL, and MLB

Timestamp: [01:56] – [06:01]

Colin Cowherd opens the episode by discussing ESPN’s recent broadcasting deals, particularly focusing on their $4.5 billion agreement to televise the NBA and NHL. He emphasizes the strengths and weaknesses of these deals, especially contrasting them with Major League Baseball (MLB).

Key Points:

• NBA's Appeal: The NBA benefits from iconic franchises like the Lakers, Celtics, and Bulls, alongside star players who are household names. Colin asserts, “Anybody that's a sports fan, even a casual, can name 12, 15 guys in the NBA right now.”

• NHL's Limitations: Despite the lucrative deal, hockey struggles in America due to the absence of widely recognized franchises and stars. Colin points out, “There is no iconic franchise in, in America. Toronto Maple Leafs aside, there's no recognizable hockey star in America that could walk into a mall and everybody would freak out.”

• MLB's Market Presence: Baseball maintains its popularity in major markets with stars spread across big cities like New York, Los Angeles, and Atlanta. Colin remarks, “In baseball, they're all in the perfect markets. You don't have all your stars in Cincinnati or Cleveland.”

Notable Quote:

“ESPN signed hockey along with TNT to a $4.5 billion deal seven years ago. There is no iconic franchise in, in America… which makes it harder to engage casual fans.”
– Colin Cowherd [04:30]

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2. The NFL Combine and Matt Stafford’s Potential Trade to the Giants

Timestamp: [14:53] – [23:29]

The conversation shifts to the NFL Combine, with a particular focus on Matt Stafford’s potential trade to the New York Giants. Colin explores the implications of such a move and debates its feasibility with co-host John Middelkoff.

Key Points:

• Matt Stafford’s Situation: Colin discusses Stafford’s desire to stay with the Los Angeles Rams and criticizes the Giants for their inflexibility regarding draft picks. He muses, “Would you flip picks with the Rams? The Giants are not necessarily going to trade down. They’re just going to draft a quarterback or get Stafford.”

• Financial Considerations: Stafford’s substantial earnings make the trade complex. John highlights, “His career earnings right now are about $360 million. After taxes and agents, he will have over $200 million in net income.”

• Comparisons to Aaron Rodgers: The duo compares Stafford’s potential impact with that of Aaron Rodgers, suggesting that while Rodgers sought a fresh start, Stafford is more likely to remain loyal to a well-run organization like the Rams.

Notable Quotes:

“The value of Sean McVay for a quarterback and just the franchise and how well run they are makes me think Stafford wants to stay with the Rams.”
– Colin Cowherd [19:49]

“If I was the owner, I would not trade the number three pick for Stafford because they’re not getting Cam Ward. This is not one of those drafts.”
– Colin Cowherd [16:55]

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3. Streaming Services and Their Impact on Sports Viewership

Timestamp: [28:07] – [66:59]

Colin delves into the growing influence of streaming platforms like Netflix and Amazon on sports viewership, arguing that streaming is detrimental to the traditional sports landscape outside of football.

Key Points:

• Dominance of Football: Colin observes that football remains the nation's favorite sport, monopolizing viewership during its season. “Events like March Madness, college football, NFL games, World Cup, Olympics, UFC… all still get great numbers.”

• Impact on Other Sports: With football’s season dominating six months, other sports like baseball, basketball, and hockey struggle with regular-season viewership as audiences turn to streaming. “Hockey’s having a horrible regular season ratings because they're competing with Netflix streaming.”

• Streaming vs. Traditional Broadcasting: He criticizes streaming platforms for not matching the production quality of traditional broadcasters. “Amazon and NBC take big stabs at it, but it’s not as good as CBS, Fox, or ABC.”

• Future of Sports Broadcasting: Colin speculates that the NFL’s international games aim to expand the audience but may inadvertently support streaming giants’ growth. He suggests that “Netflix's audience is worldwide,” which could dilute domestic sports viewership.

Notable Quotes:

“I think the biggest off-season sport, which is Netflix streaming, has gobbled up post-football to Labor Day.”
– Colin Cowherd [52:19]

“I think Amazon does retail exceptionally well, but they have a long way to go to be as good as CBS, Fox, or ABC in sports broadcasting.”
– Colin Cowherd [57:24]

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4. Travis Hunter's Versatility and NFL Draft Implications

Timestamp: [37:00] – [41:31]

The discussion returns to NFL prospects, focusing on Travis Hunter’s ability to play both cornerback (CB) and wide receiver (WR), and the potential challenges this versatility poses.

Key Points:

• Positional Challenges: Colin argues that playing both CB and WR is physically taxing and strategically challenging, making it difficult for Travis Hunter to excel as a number one receiver. “You can’t be a number one receiver if you have a young quarterback trying to get reps. It’s a timing position.”

• Comparison to Deion Sanders: They reference Deion Sanders as a historical example of a successful two-way player but acknowledge the rarity of such talents in the modern NFL.

• Future Prospects: Colin suggests that teams may prefer Travis to focus on one position to maximize his potential, either as a top WR or a lockdown CB. “I think he just needs to focus on one of the positions and I hope… he can be just a high-level corner.”

Notable Quote:

“It's difficult to spread yourself thin, especially when you're factoring in youth. He needs to focus on one position to maximize his potential.”
– Colin Cowherd [39:33]

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5. Miles Garrett’s Trade Speculation and Browns’ Defensive Needs

Timestamp: [41:31] – [62:37]

Colin and John analyze the Cleveland Browns’ defensive strategies, particularly concerning Miles Garrett, and debate whether trading him would benefit the team.

Key Points:

• Garrett’s Value: Colin highlights Garrett as an elite defensive player comparable to legends like Lawrence Taylor. “He may not be there yet, but Jesus, he’s close.”

• Trade Considerations: They discuss the Browns’ dilemma of potentially trading Garrett for significant guarantees versus retaining a key defensive asset. “If someone puts $150 million guaranteed in front of Miles Garrett, would he resign with the Browns? It’s about winning.”

• Franchise Stability: The Browns’ ownership and management are scrutinized, with Colin suggesting that their decision-making is influenced by financial constraints and the desire to remain competitive. “The Browns are in a weird spot right now. They’ve got Watson’s contract anchoring the franchise. You’re drafting two overall. Your star player wants out.”

Notable Quotes:

“He is about to enter into a Donald Lawrence Taylor-like status, he may not be there yet, but he’s close.”
– Colin Cowherd [43:10]

“I would have absolutely no problem because I think they’ve got most of their offensive pieces in check and they’ve drafted well on that side.”
– Colin Cowherd [44:03]

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6. Concluding Thoughts: The Intersection of Sports and Streaming

Timestamp: [62:37] – [70:05]

In the concluding segment, Colin reflects on the broader implications of streaming services on sports and shares personal anecdotes about balancing work and leisure.

Key Points:

• Personal Media Consumption: Colin discusses his own media habits, noting a shift from sports to streaming during the off-season. “I don’t watch Netflix or anything outside of sports from Labor Day weekend until the end of football.”

• NFL’s Global Strategy: He theorizes that the NFL’s international games are a strategic move to entice streaming platforms by expanding their global audience. “When they play that international morning game, sometimes 6:30 in the morning… it’s going to be a $2 billion deal.”

• Future of Sports Broadcasting: Colin remains cautious about streaming platforms’ ability to effectively manage live sports events, citing past failures like Netflix’s hypothetical football game production. “I think Amazon and NBC take big stabs at it, but it’s not as good as CBS, Fox, or ABC.”

Notable Quotes:

“Once football ends, our nation’s favorite sport for six months is Netflix, and they'll come in for an NBA final or a World Cup or the Olympics, but football and college football, mostly the NFL, it is a six-month event.”
– Colin Cowherd [52:19]

“I think Amazon does retail exceptionally well, but they have a long way to go to be as good as CBS, Fox, or ABC.”
– Colin Cowherd [57:24]

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7. Additional Player Insights: Travis Hunter and Miles Garrett

Timestamp: [68:15] – [70:05]

In the final moments, Colin briefly touches upon Travis Hunter’s position and the Browns’ Miles Garrett, reiterating their significance in the current NFL landscape.

Notable Quotes:

“Travis Hunter, playing both cornerback and wide receiver, needs to focus on one to maximize his potential.”
– Colin Cowherd [38:31]

“Miles Garrett is an elite defensive player. Trading him could be a historic move if handled correctly.”
– Colin Cowherd [43:30]

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Conclusion

In this episode, Colin Cowherd provides an in-depth analysis of ESPN’s sports broadcasting decisions, the complexities surrounding NFL player trades and the Combine, and the disruptive impact of streaming platforms on traditional sports viewership. Through engaging discussions with co-host John Middelkoff, Colin delivers insightful commentary on the evolving landscape of American sports, highlighting both the challenges and strategic maneuvers within major leagues.

Transcript

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[Trevon Edwards]

I'm Trevon Edwards, co host of the new podcast Got the Greatest of Their Era with Seth Curry. You don't want to miss our first episode that's out now. Now we went live from All Star Weekend and had special guest appearance by Steph Curry himself. Steph talked about what separates the truly elite NBA shooters, so you might as.

[Steph Curry]

Well just count that and get on back on defense.

[Trevon Edwards]

And we ranked our top five shooters from the 2000s.

[Steph Curry]

That's so tough. That's why we to have these conversations.

[Trevon Edwards]

Yes, absolutely.

[Steph Curry]

Love it.

[Trevon Edwards]

Listen to Goat Greatest of Their era on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.

[Colleen Witt]

Are you hungry? Colleen Witt here and Eating While Broke is back for season four every Thursday on the Black Effect podc. This season we've got a legendary lineup serving up broke dishes and even better stories on the menu. We have Tony Baker, Nick Cannon, Melissa Ford, October London and Carrie Harper Howey turning Big Macs into big moves. Catch Eating While Broke every Thursday on the Black Effect Podcast Network, iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast. Wherever you get your favorite shows, come hungry for season four.

[Colin Cowherd]

The volume. Our conversation is presented by Uber Eats. You know I love get game day deals all season long on Uber Eats. All right. Fresh off a week vacation, which it was a semi vacation, I went to Montecito, which is up north of LA by about an hour and a half and hung out with my wife for about four days. Then we went to Chicago where we just were, you know, fixing a new house. As people know, I'm moving some of my stuff there's and so most people go to sun and golf. I went into like 12 degrees but I had a great time. I went to the Sun's Bulls game Saturday night. Met Justin Isbia, the. Matt Ishbia owns the Phoenix Suns. Justin, yeah, yeah, Justin, his brother Ishbia, met him. Really?

[John Middelkoff]

He's trying to buy the White Sox. He's trying to buy the White Sox, right?

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, I think he tried to make a run at the Twins. I don't, you know, I know he likes baseball. He's got a minor league team in Nashville and a lot of business in Nashville could not be more down to earth. Justin Ishbia, really nice guy, invited me to a party to get welcomed into the neighborhood and just happened to be at the Suns Bulls game. So I had a good time. I just, I didn't go to the sun. I'm going to do that in April on a vacation. But before we get started, the one thing I wanted to touch on with you and I just, just. It's not football so we can ramble and talk about a bunch of stuff. So when I was, I try to kind of stay off. I watched the nations for hockey stuff. I thought that was great. I mean NHL basically said we're going to punt on our all star game. Nobody likes any of these all star games except baseball. The rest of them are tanking. We're going to try something new. Finland, Sweden, Canada, US. It was great. It was just great hockey. Really intense. But it is interesting when you inject patriotism into any sport. Curling, track and field, pole vaulting, it could be anything. It's jet fuel. And you know, Women's World cup basically, you know, every time they've won a gold, there's this sense that it's going to explode and the women's soccer league is going to explode. It doesn't really happen. It's just patriotism. And there was a lot of talk during the break that I can't believe ESPN's letting go of baseball either, can I? But what's interesting isn't that they signed the NBA. That's not interesting because the NBA's got iconic franchises. Sixers, Celtics, Lakers, Warriors, Bulls, Knicks. And it's got iconic stars. It's always been a star driven league. Anybody that's a sports fan, even a casual, can name 12, 15 guys in the NBA right now. But what's amazing is ESPN signed hockey along with TNT to a 4 1/2 billion dollar deal 7 years a few years ago. There is no iconic franchise in, in, at least in America, Toronto Maple Leafs in, you know, in, in North America are. There's no recognizable hockey star in America that could walk into a mall and everybody would Freak out like a, a rod in his prime or Otani right now or Aaron Judge or Bryce Harper where everybody knows who they are. So when people get all worked up about ESPN signing an NBA deal and not a baseball deal, my take is, oh, I get it. I would have signed a baseball deal too. I think you have to have baseball. I, I think it's spit on a two year heater. The pitch clock defensive shift eliminated. And all the stars are in New York, Louisiana. You know, big markets it Philadelphia, Bryce Harper, Atlanta, Acuna. Like they got all their stars in the right markets. But what's amazing to me is ESPN and Jimmy Pataro is a huge baseball fan, says buy to baseball. That's really got some two year momentum going and said yes to hockey. And I know hockey fan thinks this Nations4 thing means hockey is back. And my take is it's patriotism. Every track and field gets hot for three weeks every four years.

[John Middelkoff]

I'll defend hockey. I, I be honest. I went to my first hockey game when I moved to Arizona and the Phoenix Coyotes were playing in the college arena that had about 3,500 seats.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah.

[John Middelkoff]

So I don't pretend to be a hockey guy. I did watch it last year in the playoffs because I gambled on it. And the playoff hockey is pretty, oh, it's great. I would say this about what 10 million people just watch that Four nations thing. I think like you say the jet fuel with the patriotism. But that fight. Yeah, that happened. And the booing of the national anthem. It was a perfect.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah.

[John Middelkoff]

We're always, we're always an underdog. How often are we. We're never underdogs in basketball. Right. In the national stuff. So we're an underdog in hockey against Canada way back in the day intertwined him. Yeah. So it was, it was easy to watch. I'll say the thing about baseball when I, you know, I've lived in Northern California the majority of my life, I would just have Giants games on in the background.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah.

[John Middelkoff]

And unlike other sports like basketball, I don't watch as much anymore. But I would watch national brands play basketball. Right. Like I watch the Lakers play basketball. I live in Arizona. I will not watch the Diamondbacks play baseball. And they're good, but I'm not going to turn them on my tv. Like I would just have the Giants on a nightly base. I don't watch any baseball anymore. And it's not because I don't like the sport. I do, I was, I'm glued during the playoffs. But I think they really Struggle with beside your own team. That's where football dominates. Right. You could put Jags, Chargers on a playoff game and 30 million people are watching. That is not the case with the brands in baseball. And I just think they're in a weird point in time because they are popular in these Mark. If the Giants are good, they dominate in the Bay Area. The dodgers, huge in LA, NY. I mean, how big is baseball going to be in New York City this year with the Mets and the Yankees now?

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah.

[John Middelkoff]

So I just think it doesn't really work nationally.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah.

[John Middelkoff]

Like, Sunday night baseball hasn't worked in a long time. It doesn't mean the sport is not popular. And then, you know, you talk. I don't talk basketball really anymore. And I part. I don't watch it as much as I used to. And part of it is because I just don't talk it. So I don't really care. Beside that, I follow the warriors pretty closely in the Luca thing, I would say was a little jet fuel on following the Lakers and what's going on there. But they are discussed nationally on sports shows and baseball is just not.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah. And here's the thing that for all the NBA critics, I say this, it's inbred. I mean, basketball, we all shot a basketball. It could have been in a farm on a back of a barn in Iowa. It could be in a city in Los Angeles, Rutgers park in New York. We all played basketball. If we don't love pro basketball, we watch March Madness. We've had. We were on a high school basketball team or we went to the high school basketball team. Like, basketball is inexpensive, unlike a golf or hockey with the equipment or football.

[John Middelkoff]

Baseball is expensive. I mean, see how much bats cost. You talk to a parent that has to buy a bat.

[Colin Cowherd]

Or football, where it kind of cancels out smaller kids.

[T-Mobile Representative]

Right.

[Colin Cowherd]

Like basketball. When you're in high school, at most high schools, if you're six two, you're a big kid. So basketball's part of us. And you know, I mean, it's the biggest superstar in the history of American sports is a basketball player in Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson's top five. So basketball's who we are. Hockey is who Canada is. And that's fine.

[John Middelkoff]

I don't know. I don't have kids yet, so I can't speak for the youth. But everyone my age group and older played baseball at one point in time. Right. Little League, you know, through many, through high school. I do think it's just lost its cultural relevancy, you know, separate from the playoffs, you know, you always talk about college. Basketball is now just March Madness. I think baseball from a national perspective is basically just the playoffs now.

[Colin Cowherd]

But think about this. Baseball runs unopposed. And if you're a sports network like espn, you're dying for filler. In May, June, July and August, you're dying for it. That's baseball. It's tonnage. Hockey, a big chunk of its season is October, November, December, January. It's like, guys. And now with a college football playoff, December's off the board for hockey.

[John Middelkoff]

So what's your take? Did you see Manfred statement? I mean, clearly they're angry because they turn on. No one's ever talking about them ever. So maybe from their perspective, right or wrong, and you could argue it's wrong because their platform is still relatively big. They were never going to discuss baseball beside putting on the game.

[Colin Cowherd]

So my take is right now because Ohtani is a Dodger, Bryce Harper a Philly, Aaron Judge, Yankee, Mookie Betts, Freddie Freeman, Acuna in Atlanta.

[John Middelkoff]

Soto hit a home run at his first at bat in spring training, and.

[Colin Cowherd]

The Mets and the Padres, you have a lot of big market or coastal markets. In baseball, the stars are in the right places, whereas in the NBA, the stars are in the wrong places. Giannis is in Milwaukee, SGA is in Oklahoma City. Luca now is in the right spot, but Jokic is in Denver. So you have a lot of players in the NBA. Thank God for Jalen Brunson. I mean, a lot of guys in the NBA are in the wrong markets. In baseball, they're all in the perfect markets. You don't have all your stars in Cincinnati or Cleveland. And that's nothing against those cities. But I just thought for espn, I'm like, guys, two years ago you signed a seven year billion dollar deal on hockey. And I'm a sportscaster. I can't name six NHL guys and I respect the hell out of the sport. But it's not a talking point in my industry.

[John Middelkoff]

I'll say this too, that you know, and this, you got to be careful with small sample sizes. But if you come to the Scottsdale area in the month of March, when spring training, I mean, you talk the Dodgers play out where the Cardinals play in Glendale. That place, you can't. You're shoulder to shoulder. I mean, I'm talking thousands of people every single game. The Cubs, the Giants, who have been bad, are in the heart of Scottsdale. This thing is a cash cow for them. The amount of people that come to this area to watch spring training, baseball These are west coast teams. I mean this is the Padres, the Dodgers, the Giants. You feel the popularity again. I'm a little jaded living here right now. But baseball does feel big this time of year with all these baseball guys. It's kind of the center of the universe because in Florida it's a little spread out, right? In baseball it's all right here. And some of the big brands, I mean the Dodgers, I went to a Dodger game last year in spring training and it felt a little bit like you were watching the 90s bulls. Yeah, it was like this is insane.

[Colin Cowherd]

And this year they went and got that 23 year old pitching phenom from Japan. Okay. Then they act added another starter, Blake Snell. Then they went and got Tanner Scott in the bullpen. You can argue the Dodgers will have if healthy, one of the great pitching staffs of all time. You have to go back to like the 1970 Baltimore Orioles when it was, you know, Cuellar and I think Jim Palmer and maybe even Steve Stone. I'm dating myself, but it's just insane. It's like Ace, Ace 2. I mean it was just like stars all the way through the pitching staff. So I know we're kind of rambling here, but my point was when people were getting off on this, if I ran a sports network, there's four things I'd have NFL, I'd try to have college football at least. Big regular season, big tenor sec, hopefully the playoffs. I'd want the World cup for global sports and I'd want the baseball playoffs. That's what I'd want. Those are the things I would like to have the NBA, I would like to have the Olympics. The other thing I always throw out there is the ufc. I would love, I mean Fox had the UFC got into a bidding war and they didn't want to spend 6 billion on it, they wanted to spend 3 billion. They just got outbid and they acknowledged, I mean to this day Eric Shanks and Dana White are good friends. Like they we loved the ufc, but sometimes you just get outbid for stuff. So again I am an NBA fan, but I, it's hard for me right now. If I ran a network, the Yankees are going nowhere, the Dodgers are stacked forever as they push those contracts down the road. The Braves are always well run. Frickin Mets have Steve Cohen. So it's like to me it was like, wow, this is.

[John Middelkoff]

Phillies are huge spenders. I mean the Red Sox are bouncing back, the Cubs won't be down for the cut.

[Colin Cowherd]

The Cubs just went and got a kid named Tucker. They just went and got. They had a very good off season. You know I'm on my second Tito's so you know I'm just spitballing here.

[John Middelkoff]

No, I listen. I find baseball. I think both baseball and basketball struggle their games. A regular season game just does not feel important.

[Colin Cowherd]

Fair.

[John Middelkoff]

I think that's, that's, that's a hard part for both leagues. But the difference is is the basketball talking points just drive a lot of sports talk minus foot. You know once football is either out of season or different times of the year where baseball just doesn't it all beside October and it's kind of crazy.

[Colin Cowherd]

Kyle Tucker.

[John Middelkoff]

It is what it is.

[Colin Cowherd]

Kyle Tucker. I apologize. I apologize. I move into Chicago part time so I should know who Kyle Tucker is. So I want to throw this out there. So a big talking point was again I talked about this before vacation, then it happened during vacation and I was told by a source I really trust that Matt Stafford's agent and the Rams are going to meet at the combine this week and try to bang something out. The Rams like him. Matt likes him. They want to stay together. He understands the importance of McVay and Puka Nakua and the organization and the Rams like him. And it's a bad quarterback class. And Aaron Rodgers is an option but not a preferred option. Stafford's better now so. But here's an interesting thing. A lot of Giants have pushed back on this. We're not giving up the number three pick. So my take is would you flip picks with the Rams because it's different. If this was a great quarterback draft class I'd be very reluctant to give it the number three pick because I could trade down right. Which the Rams would do. If they got the number three pick. They would trade down and get more picks. The Giants not ne they're not necessarily going to trade down. They're just going to draft a quarterback or they would get Stafford so they wouldn't have to. But when you as a GM I would have no problem getting Matt Stafford giving him a three year deal, maybe four. You know, I would draft a quarterback second year into it and just say okay, I'll take the Rams pick late first you get my draft top of the first. I would have no problem doing that because they've been unwatchable for a decade. The coach and the GM are on the hot seat in New York between Jaden Daniels and the Eagles roster. You're non competitive. You're not a competitive team going forward. But when I Say that Giant fans are. You cannot trade the number three pick. There are drafts. I agree with that. This is. You're not getting Cam Ward. This is not one of those drafts to me.

[John Middelkoff]

If I was a gm, I couldn't trade that valuable of a pick and pay a 37 year old guy who does have some injury concerns at this point in time. But those guys are fighting for their jobs. So I think if you sat in Brian Dabel shoes, he wouldn't hesitate to do that. I think he would just give the number three pick for Matt Stafford. Why would he not? He's going to get fired. And fair not like he would not get a job immediately after. And the general manager, let's also just speak in realities, would never get another job.

[Colin Cowherd]

Right?

[John Middelkoff]

So to me now, if I was the owner, I could not. We would not be doing that. That's. I think it's risky business. I would also not be in business. Look at the last two quarterbacks that were older. They got a lot of money. That the packers, who are one of the best drafting teams of like all time were like yeah, we're done with Aaron Rodgers. And then Kevin O'Connell was like, yeah, I'm done with Kirk Cousins. And both those teams regretted those moves immediately. I mean the Aaron Rodgers, right, well, they had to make that move. Like I don't blame them for making that trade the jets, but that was a disaster. The Cousins thing was even worse because at least Rogers at one point in time was one of the greatest players ever. Cousins always had some limitations coming off the Achilles and let's face it, Colin, they're probably going to cut him in the next seven, 10 days. Yeah, he's going to get cut. So now Stafford at this point in time is better than that version of Rogers and definitely Cousins. But you know where I come with Stafford, you know he is going to accumulate. I looked. He made over $220 million in Detroit. His career earnings right now are about $360 million. So when his career is over, he will be over $400 million. So even after taxes and after paying agents, he will have accumulated before he's 40 years old, over $200 million in net income. I'm not even talking about what he's made off the field in la. I know he's, I see him on sleep number commercials. He is really, really rich. Right at this point in time when you spent a decade and a half almost in an irrelevant franchise and losing constantly in the peak of your powers, wouldn't you go like, look at what Tom did. Like, wouldn't it make sense to be, hey Sean, it doesn't get any better than the Rams. I know we're well run. I know I have an elite coach. I'm in a huge market. I have, I have made Peyton Manning level money and I have got my ass kicked and we draft in the top 10. Now I'm with a franchise who I don't even know. These guys are bringing in all of a sudden by mid season they're ass kickers. Like, why would I want. I would come out, I would have stopped this conversation. I will do whatever it takes. I'm not going to make $5 million. But why wouldn't he be? Like, I'm making 27 this year. Let's do a two year deal for like 40 million guarantee every penny. You go out and buy players. I want to be here. I'm going to go Brady, I've already. People like don't count other people's money. This guy has made so much money and he played in such a bad franchise. Shouldn't he, like, I wouldn't want any part of the Giants. If you're Matt Staff, what are we talking about?

[Colin Cowherd]

No, I.

[John Middelkoff]

But he likes his money. There's no doubt. Like him and Jimmy Sexton there they have been Peyton Manning, like every penny. Every penny, Every penny. And I don't blame the Rams. Like, no, no more every penny.

[Colin Cowherd]

I think Stafford wants to stay with the Rams and to your point, I would want to stay with the Rams. The value of, the value of Sean McVay for a quarterback and just the.

[John Middelkoff]

Franchise and how well run they are. Yeah, he saw The Lions for 15 years.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah. No, I think a lot of this, I think when things go public and you know, like Stephen A's contract went public, I always think when I see that, that the person actually wants to sign with the company, it goes public. You know, I mean, and I'm. This is not a shot at Stephen A. But I always think that whenever a person. Because I could make my stuff go public on my contract and I don't. I'm not comfortable with it. But. But a lot of people are and I'm not begrudging them, but Stafford and these people that it gets out either through their agent or sources. Stuff gets out when people want it. Want it out. Right. Like in my entire life, stories get out when people want it out. That that's the reason stuff gets out. I've got secrets in my career in negotiations never gotten out because the company doesn't want them out, and I don't want them out this time. In my negotiations, nothing gets out. I don't want it out, they don't want it out. I always tell my bosses, keep it out of the press. I don't want anything in the press. But when people do, it does get out there, it's generally because the sides want a deal, they want to remain. So when I. When I see the Matt Stafford stuff, my take is Matt wants to stay in Los Angeles. He's got a gorgeous place near the beach, and I think Hermosa or Manhattan beach, it's great weather. He was in the Midwest for years. He's a Texas, Georgia kid. He probably likes warm weather. So I. And this. This is not an indictment on anybody that goes public, but it discounts. In politics, if you're trying to get legislation passed, it counts in contracts, it counts when I. When I. I mean, stuff is out when somebody is trying to create leverage, but they truthfully, they want to stay where they're at. So I think he'll be around.

[John Middelkoff]

Yeah, I think this one's pretty clear because this kind of happened last year. It feels a little more out this year, is that the Rams are tough to negotiate with, you know, early on in their tenure with Less. And Sean, they. They signed a deal that they clearly regretted in Todd Gurley. And ever since, they've been pretty good. Right. And they haven't got in these positions where, you know, the Niners have kind of found themselves the last couple years, like, ah, we regret that Debo deal. We regret that IU deal. And now they're kind of burned, and now they're pivoting, like, oh, we got to be careful with doing that stuff. The Rams learned early on because Todd Gurley's knee just went right. And this Stafford thing, I think they have just been. They've been tough with him.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah.

[John Middelkoff]

You know, he's been, you know, with Detroit, they always bent right over and gave him, and he was always the highest paid guy. You know, the last couple of years, it's been hard. He's like, I'm only making 27. They're like, well, we'll give you a couple million dollars more. But we're not. We're not giving you two years, $100 million, Matt. That's just not happening.

[Colin Cowherd]

Right.

[John Middelkoff]

And we want you. You want us. We're winning. Listen, and I know you only have a chance, like, once he leaves, he's probably not going to make. When he's 42 years old, retired $30 million his first job, whatever he does. So I understand you have the opportunity to make a lot of. But he's made so much in winning, like you could go down as a legendary player that I would be very careful about driving this hard in negotiation. Now, I think he also knows, like, what are. What would the Rams do? You know, Sean McVeigh, they're not really in the business of just like, oh, we'll figure it out on the fly. Like, they understand what they have, but I think they have some negotiating power because like you said, he doesn't want to leave. Look at his options, like the Giants or the Titans are going to trade. What are we talking about?

[Colin Cowherd]

Gross. And I do think there's. I think the Aaron Rodgers thing has some legs. And I. And I'll say this. We know that coaching matters with quarterbacks. Last 10 games last year, when Salo was gone, the jets were one of the poorest coach teams in the league. They up and down both sides of the ball. And Aaron put up good numbers. Aaron, with McVeigh would put up good numbers. B plus numbers, maybe not A numbers. So I think that's something they've thought about. Aaron's got a place in Malibu and it's like, hey, if we get trapped here, we'll bring on Aaron for a couple year. Deal. Plus Aaron, from all the indications, Aaron wanted to be a jet and was dumped for the second time. So I think Aaron does not want to end his career like that. And again, I thought in his last 10 games, he had like a 98 passer rating. He was pretty good. So my take is Aaron, it's not a. I mean, I had somebody that I really trust tell me this, that Aaron Rodgers is who McVeigh would go after. I mean, he went after a guy in Baker Mayfield that came with baggage. He went after him in one second.

[John Middelkoff]

Yeah, Carson Wentz, they got, you know, they've done a lot of that. He has. No, he's got. He's like the young version of Andy Reid. They. They'll take on problems. The difference, though is, to me, there's a big difference is the player Aaron Rodgers wants no part of getting hit. He just will not. And that's still a quality that Stafford will sit in there and he will get peppered as he delivers a strike and that, you know, the level in which the Rams, I mean, they're the only team that went toe to toe with the Eagles, you know, so it's like they're trying to compete for the Super Bowl. That difference in standing in there throughout the course of a season in the big games. I think there would be a drop off unless Aaron was just willing again to play like he did. And I don't think at 41 years old he would be. I mean that's, that is one thing. Stafford will sit in there kind of like the old school quarterbacks and still get hit. So I understand maybe his negotiating like, hey guys, you know I'm taking a lot of hits here too. Like I need some money for this, for these bruises that I wake up with every Monday morning.

[Colin Cowherd]

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[Trevon Edwards]

What's up everybody? I'm Trevon Edwards, co host of the new podcast Got Greatest of Their Era with Seth Curry. You don't want to miss our first episode that's out now. We went live from All Star Weekend, had special guest appearance by Steph Curry himself. Steph talked about what separates the truly elite NBA shooters.

[Steph Curry]

When you have a scouting report and you're on the list as not just a shooter, but we have specific rules for how we guard you. There's a fear factor that's associated with anytime you're wide open. Like, you might as well just count that and get back on defense.

[Trevon Edwards]

And we ranked our top five shooters from the 2000s.

[Steph Curry]

Peja 5 Dirk 4 Peja is elite.

[Trevon Edwards]

Okay, I'm mad him. I left him off my list, but I still like my list. You won't believe who Steph left off his list.

[Steph Curry]

That's so tough. That's why we tap these conversations.

[Trevon Edwards]

Yes, absolutely.

[Steph Curry]

Love it.

[Trevon Edwards]

Listen to Goat Greatest of their era on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Minnie Driver]

Jon Stewart is back at the Daily show and he's bringing his signature wit and insight super straight to your ears with the Daily Show Ears Edition podcast. Dive into John's unique take on the biggest topics in politics, entertainment, sports, and more. Joined by the sharp voices of the show's correspondence and contributors, and with extended interviews and exclusive weekly headline roundups, this podcast gives you content you won't find anywhere else. Ready to laugh and stay informed? Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Colin Cowherd]

Let's just throw this name out there because the combine starts this week and before we get into that, free agencies after that. Sam Darnold had a couple of disappointing games end of the season. Sam Darnold had a really good season. Sam's got a market. Sam is still in the middle of his prime. What is your I contend that Las Vegas and with Chip Kelly and the Colts with Shane Steichen are really good fits. Indy feels like Sam in that division can go toe to toe with those quarterbacks. You're not going toe to toe with a Herbert, I don't think, or a Mahomes, but I think you put him in the AFC south with Shane Steichen. I think he can go toe to toe with a CJ Stroud on most Sundays. What do you think happens with Sam?

[John Middelkoff]

Yeah, I mean, a lot changed. I remember going live with you right after he made that throw against Seattle and I was like, this guy, how are they going to not give him a huge contract? And it shows you the power of these prime time games. Let's face it, there was a lot, you know, obviously the division was on the line that Sunday night and then the playoff game was really, really bad. I still think at minimum he's going to get a Baker Mayfield, three years, $100 million type contract. And clearly with good coaching you can, I mean, his team was 60 minutes away from the number one overall seed and he played a massive role in that. So I, I think you got to be careful. Yeah, I think that game exposed a little bit. When he starts getting blitzed, he starts, you know, I don't want to say seeing ghosts. He's come a long way since then, but he looked dramatically different in those two games that he did. But you' he's, you know, Aaron Glenn became a head coach, one of the best defensive coordinators in the league and just was blitzing them every single Play. And Sean McVeigh and Shula are just, they had that defense rolling. I mean, they went, they were hitting hurts, they made him look bad in that game. They were playing good defense. So I still would have no problem given. Now here's the thing, like, you know, these quarterbacks, the dominoes, all these teams looking are going to have some ranking going into the combine when they talk to the agents. So it's like, are you all in on Sam Darnold? Because if you draft or if you sign Sam Darnold to a multi year deal, you're probably not drafting a quarterback if you're the Giants, if you're the Titans, if you're the Raiders. But if you take Cousins or Rogers, you know, you're probably still have no problem drafting a quarterback really high. So I think Darnold would be the one guy that would just get signed and immediately become, you know, kind of not your long term starter, but at least in the immediate next couple of years. Starter.

[Colin Cowherd]

What do you Expect combine starts on Thursday. Shador Sanders won't work out at the combine, which has become kind of a trend with quarterbacks. What are you expecting? What are you looking for?

[John Middelkoff]

Yeah, to me, Shador is a good example of like coming into this year. Every important college director slash assistant GM saw him play life. He was such a big prospect coming into the season. There is not an NFL team worth their salt. And every team, once they realized we needed a quarterback price on him multiple times play game. So it's the combine for him. And I'd even say the same thing about Cam Ward. Remember when he transferred to Miami, he was the number one essentially free agent college football. I think it would go for him as well, which wouldn't shock me. If he doesn't throw though, Shedeur isn't, you know, some elite prospect in terms of his qualities. Yeah, like if you're Josh Allen, you should throw at the combine. Why? You're throwing 100 miles an hour. I remember Lamar Jackson when he got all the pushback about Polian's comment about the wide receivers, like, I'm not going to run. It's like, Lamar, you're going to run a 4:2, everyone's head's going to turn and you're going to be the talk of the combine. It was a mistake not running. Now granted, it all worked out. I don't blame Shador for not throwing in this environment because it's not the best environment. If I'm Cam Ward. You have a huge arm throw. Yeah, I would. No one cares about completions and completions. You're throwing people you don't know. Let that ball rip. As all the coaches and GMs are sitting there in the boxes and in the seats right there in Indy. So I think those two guys in a huge part of the the combine is the interviews and with a quarterback and I would throw Jackson Darton here, who I think is going to gain some momentum as a potential first round pick is the person like, what are you like as a guy? I mean last year you see some of these clips, it was a pretty high level class, you know, Jaden Daniels, really high level guy. Obviously Caleb, everyone had known him for years and he was a lock to go number one. But Drake May, Michael Pennix, I mean the Bo Knicks, J.J. mcCarthy. So it was like they're going to crush these interviews coaches, this is the first. The GMs and the scouts have been watching these guys for years. The coaches, you know, NFL coaches don't really watch as much college football as the Average fan would think the head coach might have it on, you know, Andy Reid does, but a lot of guys are just so tunnel vision. They don't know that much about these players and definitely have never met them and a lot of times haven't really evaluated them. So this is kind of their first exposure. So meeting them as a human being and getting to know the guy and getting to know, like, their football smarts and their football iq, it's a huge, huge moment for all the guys that, you know, are in the mix to. I mean, all these guys are draft are going to get drafted. The majority of the guys go to combine, but definitely the guys that have, like, the ability to get drafted in the first round. I mean, there's just a lot of money on the line, you know, getting drafted high.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, the combine's interesting. I think I was into it more 10 years ago, and I think some coaches feel the same way. They don't necessarily. Some go, some don't. I. Have you been surprised as a former NFL scout, some of these coaching staffs just don't go anymore. They just say, I'm not going, not wasting my time. Does that surprise you?

[John Middelkoff]

Yeah. Honestly, it's bothered me in the past because I go, well, Belichick always went, and now, I'll promise you this, Andy Reid's going to be there. It's like, well, if the best guy's there and values it, it doesn't mean he goes to everything. But he values meeting the guys because there's one thing to evaluate them off a tape. Everything's taped, right? Your workout and even your interviews. And some of these guys now can be there. In a zoom interview, there is a big difference. If you're interviewing someone to be the 13th overall pick, standing there and talking to him and meeting him, seeing him face to face and zooming him. So I do believe you should go. I saw my guy, Tim Kawakami in the Bay Area. Kyle Shanahan, like, McVeigh, stop going. Well, it's one thing when you're going to the super bowl or the NFC championship every year. He reported Kyle's probably going to go this year. Kind of need to meet these guys. Yeah, but my thing is, like, if the top coach is there and Sandy Reed, who runs the league, like, you should be there. And so I do believe there's value not in, like, your change of direction in a. In a condra. Okay, but, like, you might draft this guy in the second round. It's kind of going to be a big deal when it's like a year in. You hate the kid and it's your own fault when you didn't put in max effort to get to know him, to get to meet him every opportunity. I mean, at this point in time, the salary cap's almost $300 million. This pretty big business.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah.

[John Middelkoff]

You know, these are your most important assets. So I, I, I do think the value is more, less about the running and, and catching the gauntlet drill and more just sitting with the kid and interviewing them and being there with your coordinators. Not every coach needs to go, but to me, the head coach and the coordinators should all be present with the, with the scouting staff.

[Colin Cowherd]

You know, it's interesting. There's going to be, you can go back to last year's draft, the year before. There are certain things that are just innate. They're true. You can't argue them. There's going to be a couple players in the top 15 that will be busts. They just won't be very good. And for a variety of issues, some, I mean, Roma Dunz is talented. I, he wasn't as good as I thought as a rookie. I think he'll, I mean, I thought there'd be more splash, but I think a lot of it was, it was such a mess, you know, it was all a mess. And I think he'll bounce back. I'm going to throw Travis Hunter out as a player. That could be, that could underachieve. So I don't doubt he's good enough to be a number two receiver in the NFL and a number one corner. I don't doubt either. But to ask to be both. I mean, if you had a great linebacker who also played tight end, it's undeniable that the physical toll would hurt what you're best at. I would put him at corner, but he wants to be a receiver. I don't know if he's a number one receiver in the NFL. Maybe on a weaker team, he's certainly good enough. But you can't be a number one receiver if you have a young quarterback who's trying to get reps. Confidence in timing. It's a timing position. Running back isn't. Cornerback isn't. You can, I mean, high school to college, college to the pros. Running back and cornerback. You can walk in and just play. You could just, I mean, those are two positions. I've been told this forever. You would know. This is a scout. Running back and cornerback. You could miss some of camp. You could be, you could have a contract holdout. You're ready to play week one or week two?

[John Middelkoff]

Well, it's a very instinctive position.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yep. Both of them wide receiver. Especially with a young quarterback. It's a timing position. Hell, Brady was an old quarterback. If he didn't trust you'd be in the right spot, Tom would ghost you. I think Travis Hunter, I think this coming to a bad team, he'll have a lot of leverage. He'll play both ways. I could see that being a problem.

[John Middelkoff]

Well he, you know and we'll find out. It was just a name on a paper. Did announce he's going to the combine as a corner. Now all the top guys will be interviewed. They go to the podium. It'll be interesting if he says I'm here as a corner. But I also plan on playing wide receiver. I do think it's fair to say most high level people in any industry are very singular focused and it is very difficult to spread yourself thin. Especially when you're factoring in youth. I mean he's very young. I think it's impossible to go do what he did. What he did in college was the Big 12, wasn't the SEC or the Big 10, but it was still one of the greatest athletic achievements we've ever seen. The amount of snaps he's playing. Do you agree with that?

[Colin Cowherd]

Oh yeah.

[John Middelkoff]

But if you're going to be a both way corner wide receiver just playing corner alone, think of the wide receivers right now in the NFL. The talent on a weekly basis of just pick up a random team who their schedule is on a week. You're chasing those guys for 60, 70 snaps. He would be the number one corner and then you would try to play full time wide receiver. I think it would be borderline impossible on the body. I don't think it's. And you go back to look at Deion Sanders. I don't even think he had that many catches in his career. And this is. And Dion, I mean was just a better prospect than. I mean Charles Hunter's a great prospect. Give me, give me a break. Dion's one of the greatest athletes in the history of America. Right. So I do think he just needs to focus on one of the positions and I hope and I think he's making the right decision right now at corner and then he can be just a high level corner. I don't think it's possible to go both ways and I don't think any team wants him to be. That doesn't mean you can't, you know a Ben Johnson type coordinator can't run A trick play for him. Bring him in on offense. They used to do that with Dion when I was a kid. But, like, I want you to be a lockdown corner. Derek Stingley, he's probably going to get $100 million this offseason. Why? Because he goes up against your number one wide receiver who are all making $180 million, and locks them down. Derivas did it. Sherman did it. You get paid a lot of money, and he's. It's more valuable because it's harder to find. It's much easier to find a wide receiver than it is a corner. There just aren't that many mo. Most teams don't have one good corner. Right. The teams that have two are, like, complete outliers in the National Jets.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah.

[John Middelkoff]

So I hope he stays just at 1 now. We'll see. I think, you know, Dion, who's essentially, like, feels like his father, constantly talks, like he's going to do both ways, like, so he's not slowing it down. And I do think Dion speaks for Travis a little bit, and Travis hasn't walked away from it. So I do think it's going to be interesting to see in Indy when he talks exactly what he says. Because if he does say, like, I plan on doing both, like, he's telling you, like, eventually you got to just listen to what he's saying and believe him.

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, and the other thing, because, I mean, we'll talk throughout free agency and the combine and the draft, and I'll do some basketball pods as well. But the other thing that is. And we talked a little bit bit about this last time. I can't tell you the last time a player as good as Miles Garrett was on the market. Yeah, I. I don't even. I mean, I'm dead serious. This feels so Buffalo or Green Bay. I saw something during the break. I was on my phone, and I tried to stay off it, but Warren Sharp, who does a lot of NFL stuff, had this breakdown of Josh Allen over the last several years, and it is a crime he hasn't been into a Super Bowl. He is number one in so many different analytic categories that it's a crime that he's not getting the Super Bowls. And so I do think you can keep running it back with Sean McDermott, but you're getting to a point now. You're like, okay, he's going to be coming out of his prime in about three years. Like, you got to get him to Super Bowls. And I. And I. And I look at that, and I think to Myself, Vaughn Miller's getting older. What would you give up? And I know it's a non quarterback, but I got to tell you, I would have absolutely no problem because I think they've got most of their offensive pieces in check and they've drafted well on that side. Do you give up two ones? Is he that.

[John Middelkoff]

I wouldn't hesitate. I wouldn't hesitate.

[Colin Cowherd]

I was thinking about that today on the flight. I'm like, I think it's the only defensive player outside of Aaron Donald in his prime that I would give up two.

[John Middelkoff]

Yeah, I think they are the team you could throw potentially the Lions. But they got Hutchinson coming back of like you're right there on the doorstep. You have played the Chiefs. You're the only team in the AFC that's like, God, they, they could have beat him every time they played him, but they beat him in the regular season. So it like you are a player or two away. And I remember when they paid Von Miller all that money, felt like a little desperate. You know, he came off that Super Bowl. Yeah, that was pretty risky. And that blew up in their face. He just, he just wasn't.

[Colin Cowherd]

This doesn't ramp played it perfect. This doesn't feel. Yeah, they did. It was the classic, you know, Andy Reid, somebody comes in, plays well with Mahomes. Let him go. That Von Miller felt overpaid. Miles Garrett is on a short list. I mean he's kind of entering into a Donald Lawrence Taylor. He may not be there yet, but Jesus, he's close.

[John Middelkoff]

I think I've told you this before. I, you know, looking back, back at historical comps, I think Reggie White who went to The packers at 32, you know, in Reggie. Miles is younger. You know, Miles is I think 29 years old. But still, anytime you are trading that much to give a guy a third contract, you know, this would be his third contract. And I don't blame the Browns. Like I would keep hanging up, but I think you could get a pretty historic call for a guy 29, 30 years old. And the other thing is you got to look at his body type. It's going to age well. I mean he's just a complete freak of nature, you know, unlike you know, some Lawrence Taylor. I don't think there are any questions off the field. No one's ever questioned like his. His being in shape or I mean every time you see him I. That basketball highlight he had years ago, he looked like an NBA player. I mean he like jumps out of pools from the deep end. I just wonder, you know, The Browns are in a weird spot right now. They're just, you got the, you got the Watson kind of contract anchoring the franchise. You're drafting two overall. Your star player wants out. I do think it's the right time to just blow it up, but let's face it, their owner can, it's proven to be a little bit of, you know, kind of a kook sometimes with the way he operates and he gets really involved because they do have, you know, their GM smart, he's a Roseman guy. I think we both agree Stefanski's pretty high level, good coach. But I think anything's possible anytime you get the Browns. They even said, like I do think they will throw. Here's $150 million. And it's one thing to say, hey, I want to trade, I want out. And if someone puts $150 million guaranteed in front of Miles Garrett, like, would he resign with the Browns? Is this a money play? When I, when I've seen the clips of him talking to super bowl, it actually felt pretty measured. Like I actually don't think this is really. He's already super rich. Like, this is about, like, we ain't winning here, especially in this division against Burrow and Lamar, we have no chance. So get me the hell out of here.

[American Express Representative]

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[John Middelkoff]

So party of two, right this way.

[American Express Representative]

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[T-Mobile Representative]

On T mobile to help keep you connected from big cities to small towns on America's largest 5G network. Switch the T Mobile, keep your phone and they'll pay it off up to 800 bucks per line via prepaid card. Learn more@t mobile.com heap and switch up to four lines via virtual prepaid card. Allow 15 days qualifying unlock device credit service port in 90 plus days with device and eligible carrier and timely redemption required. Card has no cash access and expires in six months.

[Trevon Edwards]

What's up, everybody? I'm Trevon Edwards, co host of the new podcast got greatest of their era with Seth Curry. You don't want to miss our first episode that's out now. We went live from All Star Weekend, had special guest appearance by Steph Curry himself. Steph talked about what separates the truly elite NBA shooters.

[Steph Curry]

When you have a scouting report and you're on the list as not just a shooter, but we have specific rules for how we guard you. There's a fear factor that's associated with anytime you're wide open. Like you might as well just count that and get on back on defense.

[Trevon Edwards]

And we ranked our top five shooters from the 2000s.

[Steph Curry]

Peja 5, dirt 4.

[John Middelkoff]

Paja is elite.

[Trevon Edwards]

Okay, I'm mad him. I left him off my list, but.

[John Middelkoff]

I still like my list.

[Trevon Edwards]

You won't believe who Steph left off his list.

[Steph Curry]

That's so tough. That's why we have these conversations.

[Trevon Edwards]

Yes, absolutely.

[Steph Curry]

Love it.

[Trevon Edwards]

Listen to goat greatest of their era on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Minnie Driver]

Catch Jon Stewart back in action on the Daily show and in your ears with the Daily Show Ears Edition podcast. From his hilarious satirical takes on today's politics and entertainment to the unique voices of correspondents and contributors, it's your perfect companion to stay on top of what's happening now. Plus, you'll get special content just for podcast listeners, like in depth interviews and a roundup of the week's top headlines. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your your podcasts.

[Colin Cowherd]

And now for our next segment, whiskey business brought to you by Green River Whiskey, the official whiskey of the Colin Cowherd podcast. If you want to enjoy life's simple pleasures, reach for Green River Whiskey. Whether it's rye whiskey, single barrel bourbon, you're getting over a century of craftsmanship packed into every bottle. Hop on over to greenriverwhiskey.com and discover.

[T-Mobile Representative]

Legend in a bottle.

[Colin Cowherd]

Today, I'm going to throw something at you. I was, I was thinking about this the way and your life is probably a lot like this. You also do a golf pod. But for six months of the year, I don't take any time off. I work every day, even Thanksgiving day. After Thanksgiving, there's tons of football games on. I've got a notepad and I'm writing notes. So. And I know it's not ditch digging, I'm not saying that, but I work every day for six months and then I take seven weeks off over the next six months until Labor Day, right? And I was thinking about this and I was, as I was flying from Chicago to LA this afternoon, I thought about you and this question. So I don't watch Netflix or anything outside of sports from Labor Day weekend until the end of football. And then I take a week off like I just did. And then for about six months now, I watch a lot of Netflix, Apple tv, Amazon prime, whatever it is. I'll watch series. So I watch Zero Day with Robert De Niro. It's okay. I, I thought De Niro was really good. I thought the acting was good, the plot was a little.

[John Middelkoff]

Check that out.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, it's interesting. It's again, the acting's really good and it plays. You can watch it. So I have like six episodes. But I was sitting there and I'm thinking to myself, one of the reasons, and I really think this is happening is that events are still working. March Madness still kicks ass, gets a rating. College football games, NFL games, World Cup, Olympics, ufc, all still get great numbers. Anything Monday through Friday, baseball, NBA, hockey, MLS really struggling. And I'm sitting there watching Zero Day. I watched it over the course of two or three days with my wife. She didn't like it as much as me. And it was, you know, it was, stuff was blowing up, it was government, it was politics, it was De Niro. I was all in. And I was thinking about this, that hockey, baseball, basketball, MLS are all struggling Monday through Friday because they're not events. And what's happened is my take is once football ends, our nation, its favorite sport for six months is Netflix and that they'll come in for an NBA final or a World cup or an Olympics, but football and college football, but mostly the NFL, it is a six month event. Those Sundays and Saturdays, those are events. You go to them, you watch them, your friends watch them. Netflix doesn't do a lot of production during that time, knowing why release new stuff. Guys are checked out for six months. But I was sitting there watching and baseball's regular season, basketball, hockey, Hockey's having a horrible regular season ratings. And my take is because they're competing with now the biggest off season sport, which is Netflix streaming, has gobbled up post football to Labor Day. A lot of these numbers. Now I'm saying that because I'm a sportscaster and I have to watch sports, but man, when I got a week off and if I wasn't a sportscaster, bro, I'm on streaming. I am on streaming with my wife watching shows.

[John Middelkoff]

Well, let's use me as an example. I couldn't have been a bigger sports fan as a kid, through college and even when I got worked in the NFL. I love baseball, love basketball, but as this podcast has taken off and we've had success and we're just. Football is just kind of takes up my life.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yes.

[John Middelkoff]

I don't one if it. I watch the baseball playoffs. I'm not going to talk about it, but I know it's big culturally. Other People are talking and I want to watch it. It's fun. But I know the other games. Why would I watch when I don't have to and no one else I feel is the matter?

[Colin Cowherd]

And you sacrifice your life with your soon to be wife for six months.

[John Middelkoff]

You sacrifice your life 100%. So we don't have Thursdays, Saturdays, Sundays, Sunday nights, Monday nights. So even during the season or I mean, you know, during September and October, you got to give up Tuesdays and Wednesdays. Right. You know, Fridays you can't just watch like Lakers kings in late October when it's like, wait, are you talking about this now? I just want to watch it. You know, I got a, I got 200 on deer and foxes over under here. You know, that doesn't fly. And it was much easier to do that when I was younger. I also think you just bring up Netflix. I saw or I heard on a podcast that YouTube, where it's consumed the most is not on a phone or an iPad. It's actually on televisions. And that's obviously the youth. Right? That's a lot of younger people watch YouTube on. I don't view it like an app like I do Netflix or Amazon prime, but people under 25 do.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah.

[John Middelkoff]

And in 10 years, those people are going to be 30 years old. And it's just the options we have to watch tv. I think about when, you know, forever, just basic cable. You would, if nothing was on tv, you just scroll around, you'd end up on random movies. You just watch Saving Private Ryan because it was on tbs. You never scroll anymore. Right. It doesn't even really exist. I don't even have. I. I talk about television sports for a living. I don't have a cable box in my house. I have YouTube TV. It doesn't even exist right now. Granted, I go to YouTube TV at Fox Sports 1 at 9 o'clock in the morning, you come up or CNBC or whatever. So it's. I still have television, but it's completely different than just five years ago. I also think I've had this theory, you know, for a long time we thought the NFL was playing those London games to move the Jags to London.

[Colin Cowherd]

Right, Right.

[John Middelkoff]

Which clearly is not true because he just spent hundreds of millions of dollars. They're going to stay in Jacksonville, Bill. At least that's what it, you know, he's invested a bunch of money there. What I think. And maybe once upon a time that was the goal. I think what they've realized the last three or four years, they Just announced another Brazil game going to Germany. Well, where's Netflix's audience? Worldwide. So I can sell the Netflix in four years when I opt out of this thing. I'm not just getting John in Arizona or Colin in Chicago or Bill in Tampa Bay. I'm getting James on an Air Force base in Germany or Craig in Australia or, you know, some dude in Brazil that likes football. So my numbers, I'm not just beholden to the American market, which crushes in football. I'm worldwide, baby. And I can't obviously through you and through the platform that you have given me, the amount of people listening to me that are like, hey, I'm from Australia, got a question about the Cowboys. Or hey, I'm from Germany, I'm a huge Niner guy. I mean, this is, it's not a worldwide sport like soccer. But in terms of the way Netflix, once they get involved with the NFL, it won't just be people in the States consuming the product. I mean, they just saw it. Now it's different. The Mike Tyson, Jake Paul thing, but that got 100 million people worldwide. So I think the NFL has pivoted to these international games to grow the audience to sell to the streamers. What do you think about that?

[Colin Cowherd]

I think you're right on the money. I think, you know, it's interesting.

[John Middelkoff]

Why would they be playing in Brazil again? What's the point of it?

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, but I also think broadcast networks are attractive. For instance, when Netflix had their football game, CBS produced it. So Netflix, I still don't love Amazon's production as much as I do Fox or CBS or abc. I like them.

[John Middelkoff]

I'd say Fox is the, I'm an NFC guy. I think Fox is the best.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, I mean, I've worked for NBC, I've worked for espn, abc, I've worked for Fox. I think Fox's production is great. Now, I do think NBC is magical on the Olympics and deserves all the love. But I, but I think, I think if I was Netflix, I don't want to create a sports division. I'll use Fox or cbs, I'll use their production people. I just want to buy the rights, stream it and get eyeballs and then I'll, then I'll pay for it to be produced. Instead of creating 100 person remote unit or bidding for rights for the entire package, I'll take six games a year and I'll just use somebody else's production because I think that's what networks provide. And I don't think Netflix and Amazon are as good because I've known people that have moved to Amazon. I think Amazon does retail exceptionally well. I think they've been clunky at the Washington Post. I think they've been clunky at Whole Foods. I don't think Whole Foods is nearly as good as it was before Amazon bought it. I don't.

[John Middelkoff]

It's an Amazon drop off. That's what I view it as.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, I mean I drop off your stuff, I just don't go to it anymore. So I think Amazon does retail exceptionally well. They're getting their feet wet in sports, but I think they have a long way to go to be as good as cbs, Fox or abc.

[John Middelkoff]

Well, what I think is going to happen is, and Goodell's already hinted at this is. Which I'm not a huge fan of now, luckily most of these games are relevant. You live on the west coast. When they play that international morning game, sometimes 6:30 in the morning, it's like I got to get up to watch Titans jags here at 6:30am but they're going to have. And Goodell's not just hinted at this, he's kind of talked about we plan on having potentially a whole slate, you know, not eight games but like 15. We couldn't. You sell that as a package like Amazon prime, boom to Netflix. They're all over the international, you know, all over the world. Every single morning starting week two, there is a 6:30am Pacific Standard Time game and Netflix pays like Amazon out of the blue. These games would have existed anyway at like Fox or CBS, you know, with the 11 other ones in the morning slate, you just put it as a, it's not a primetime game, but it's in its solo slate competing against anybody and you sell it for whatever, I don't know, 2 billion a year.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah.

[John Middelkoff]

Right. Because wouldn't you say that Thursday Night Football, the next go around Amazon or Netflix is going to pay more than they're paying now? Yeah, once they're proving they get 15 million people to watch every single Thursday night.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, I mean I, I, not just because I work at Fox, I like, I like broadcast quality production on my football games. I think they're really, really good at it. And yeah, I don't think the streamers are there yet. I thought the, the Paul Tyson fiasco was.

[John Middelkoff]

It didn't work.

[Colin Cowherd]

It was a mess. It was embarrassing. Everything, the production, the fight, the marketing, none of it worked for me. I thought it was bad. So. And again I'm, I'm a devoted Netflix, a washer. But there are things, you know, I've always been a believer. Years and years ago, you know, when the, when sports gambling became big, you know, Supreme Court rules in favor of it and you know, there was a lot of money being thrown around and I had talked to a couple of the bigger players and my take was always I like doing business because I bet on sports. But I didn't want gambling companies to be my boss. I wanted broadcasters to be my boss because I'm a broadcaster. And if I was a podcaster, that's why the volume. We do podcasts, digital media, that's our specialty. And so I think Netflix does documentaries and true crime and movies. And I don't think sports is their go to. And the idea that, hey, we've got a lot of money, let's just throw it at sports now. I think Amazon's gotten much, much better on Thursday Night Football, but they still don't feel to me as good as the networks. And you know, they have more money than the networks. So it's not like a resources issue. It's a, they don't quite have as good a feel for it right now. And so this idea that Netflix, I mean, I've watched some Netflix sports, they don't have a feel for it and they're content people. Amazon's a retail giant. I mean, go look at the Washington Post fiasco, that's a mess. The grocery store stuff, it's not very good. So I am a loyalist to. And I also like, honestly, how much do we ask fans to chase around games? Can you just put them on the 10:00, 1:00 window? West coast or East Toast? It's one in four. I mean, you're getting to a point with these fans now. I mean sometimes with baseball, Roku, Apple, Fox guys, you're making it hard for fans.

[John Middelkoff]

Well, I think Fox and CBS have been the only two networks that have just. All the games they've had have just been on Fox and cbs. I mean ESPN put one on ESPN last year. Obviously the peacock thing, which again I under like, is NBC going to survive? Right. If it's not for peacock big picture. Right. I mean that's, that's, you know, CBS and Fox have been such stalwarts with the NFL from the, for so long. I mean they have just been hand in hand and there's some loyalty. I mean the NFL is not like many industries where it's, you know, management and everything's constantly the same. Families have owned these businesses forever. Every once in a while they get A new owner. But the Jones family, the Hunt family, the Davis family, you just go around like the debartolo Yorks. I mean, the same people, the Spanos family. These people have been in for decades. The crafts and all their kids are going to get it. So I just believe that they look at, you know, they just create something out of. Out of nothing and be like, oh, here's an international slate. Here's $2 billion of games that we were going to throw that you and I would have had on a little box on Sunday ticket, not even paid attention to, and they'll get $2 billion for it. Now, can this maintain forever? I don't know how long football will dominate, but it does feel like they're really in the peak of their business powers right now, right?

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, but it's not even a loyalty thing. I like to be in business with people who are proficient at what they do. Like, you're really good at football. Right? Just speaking about the volume, we hire people who are YouTube specialists to handle our YouTube business. Like, we hire really good podcasters to do podcasts. This idea that, you know, streamers come in and they've got a feel for. I mean, Apple's baseball was awful. I tried to watch. It was.

[John Middelkoff]

I did, too.

[Colin Cowherd]

It was awful. And I'm not disparaging any individual. It just was bad Roku. Not good enough. So I'm sorry. When I. When I watch the networks do sports, like for a prime example of this is the NBA deal. And ESPN maintains its rights and they'll do fine. And I don't love everything about their coverage, but it's consistent. Amazon and NBC take big stabs at it. And my guess is it's going to take Amazon and NBC two to three years in this deal to figure it out, minimum.

[John Middelkoff]

No, I'm. I'm with you there.

[Colin Cowherd]

Are you going to. Are you going to go to Amazon to watch NBA? I'm not, no.

[John Middelkoff]

No. I mean, Colin, I don't go to ABC to watch NBA. I mean, the warriors play the Mavs. I watched probably 10 minutes today. So, you know.

[Colin Cowherd]

No, no.

[John Middelkoff]

But as anyone. That's the thing. That's. That is where football and its value is so strong. Like, it's proven they can throw random game on peacock and 20 million people be pissed off and tweeting about it, but they'll still watch. I think you throw baseball and you throw basketball behind some of these paywalls. Little different animal. Listen, I got involved with the athletic right when it started. There were some people that Drew a lot of revenue. Our guy, Ethan Strauss, he's a cash cow. You put him behind him, people will come. A lot of people. And these people were businessmen beside it. So you're getting no subscriptions here and we're paying you $400,000. It was very black and white. I think baseball, like in basketball, it's going to be very eye opening. Like, how many people just watch this game? How many people just watched the Bulls played the magic? 200,000 people watch this game. I mean, who knows? I mean, there are not. You can tell me. They dominate on social media. They are not going to go watch regular season random games with a lot of these brands. Even if you put. If I just put Lakers, just pick a random opponent like Lakers, Atlanta Hawks on a streaming service next week, relative to what it would be on ESPN or ABC behind a string, it would get cut. I think it would be 20% of that number if it would be tiny. Don't you agree there?

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, I think it's very difficult. I think I saw the NBA wanted to do what the NFL did, divvy it up and it's smart business by them. But I'm just telling you I'm going to stay watching NBA on the network. I've been watching the NBA. That will be espn and ABC is where I will watch a majority of my NBA. Now, NFL or college football, World Cup, I'll go anywhere. Ufc, I buy the cards I go to. I go to four or five. We should go to one, by the way. I go to four or five UFC fights during. I'd love to during the summer. Oh, they're so much fun. And then I buy three or four. So I would say about 30 to 50% of the time I'm watching UFC fights. So that gets me behind a paywall. NFL, major, college football. There are some things I would pay for. I mean, a Dodger, Yankee, World Series, I'm going to pay for that and watch that. But if you think regular season NBA, I'm going to a streamer, you're out of your mind.

[John Middelkoff]

And that's where Amazon, aren't they playing a different game? Like, ultimately, Netflix wants me to stay and watch other shows Amazon wants me to order. Like Maria yelling at me, we need protein bars. Boom, one button. We got protein bars delivered 10 minutes later. Right? Or we need laundry detergent. Like, their business is completely different than a lot of these other streamers that are just the media entity. Theirs are hosting data, you know, retail business delivering. And they are. It is really incredible what they've you can press a button, have something.

[Colin Cowherd]

Amazon is the most, I mean, let's look in my life, I hate, I.

[John Middelkoff]

Hate going to the store. And they have enabled me to never really have to go to store.

[Colin Cowherd]

Amazon is maybe the only company in my life. Every single family member uses every. My sister lives rurally, my wife's in Chicago. I'll be there soon. Son's up in Oregon. It's the only company in my life. I mean Microsoft was a big deal. Intel, you know, I can name. I'm trying to think of anything comparable everybody. So Amazon is a retail giant. They're not a content company now. They're, they're pivoting to that. So Netflix, you would think because they're a content company would be, it would be a much easier pivot to do sports content. But I'm telling you, some of their early stuff has just not worked for me at all. And I say that as a devoted Netflix consumer.

[John Middelkoff]

Yeah. And then they're not really in the live business. All their stuff is pre taped movies and shows. Correct.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah.

[John Middelkoff]

So it's just people in Hollywood or wherever producing this stuff. I just think where they, they're, I, you know, Netflix their money and they're clearly dipping their toe in with the Christmas game is going to continue. I do think it's, it's inevitable that they get just that morning package.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yes.

[John Middelkoff]

And just a number that everyone's. He just paid what for 6:30am games.

[Colin Cowherd]

I'll watch them though. To be honest with you, I'll watch them.

[John Middelkoff]

Same. I know it's sad.

[Colin Cowherd]

All right. John Middelkoff knocked out an hour. Former NFL scout three and out podcast. Good to be back. We'll talk soon.

[John Middelkoff]

Take it easy. Colin.

[Colin Cowherd]

The Volume.

[Trevon Edwards]

I'm Travon Edwards, co host of the new podcast got Greatest of their Era with Seth Curtis. You don't want to miss our first episode. That's out now. We went live from All Star Weekend and had special guest appearance by Steph Curry himself. Steph talked about what separates the truly elite NBA shooters.

[Steph Curry]

You might as well just count that and get on back on defense.

[Trevon Edwards]

And we ranked our top five shooters from the 2000s.

[Steph Curry]

That's so tough. That's why we tap these conversations.

[Trevon Edwards]

Yes, absolutely.

[Steph Curry]

Love it.

[Trevon Edwards]

Listen to goat Greatest of their era on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.

[Colleen Witt]

Are you hungry? Colleen Witt here and eating While Broke is back for season four every Thursday on the Black Effect Podcast network. This season we've got a legendary lineup serving up broke dishes and even better stories. On the menu. We have Tony Baker, Nick Cannon, Melissa Ford, October London, and Carrie Harper. Howie turning Big Macs into big moves. Catch eating while broke every Thursday on the Black Effect Podcast Network. IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts Wherever you get your favorite shows, come hungry for Season four.

[Colin Cowherd]

Welcome to My Legacy. I'm Martin Luther King III and together with my wife, Andrea Waters King, and our dear friends Mark and Craig Kilburger, we explore the personal journeys that shape extraordinary lives.

[American Express Representative]

Join us for heartfelt conversations with remarkable guests like David Oyelo, Mel Robbins, Mark doctor, Sanjay Gupta, and Billy Porter.

[Colin Cowherd]

Listen to My legacy on the iHeartRadio.

[John Middelkoff]

App, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Colin Cowherd]

This is My Legacy.

[Martin Luther King III]

What if you ask two different people the same set of questions? Even if the questions are the same, our experiences can lead us to drastically different answers. I'm Minnie Driver and I set out to explore this idea in my podcast. And now, Mini Questions is RA Returning for another season, we've asked an entirely new set of guests our seven questions, including Jane Lynch, Delaney Rowe, and Cord Jefferson. Listen to mini questions on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Seven questions limitless answers.