← The Herd with Colin Cowherd
The Herd with Colin Cowherd
Colin Cowherd Podcast - Steph Sensational As Warriors Steal Game 1, Lakers Lay An Egg, Nuggets/Clippers Is “Grown Up” Basketball
00:51:59
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- [00:00]
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- [00:30]
Colin Cowherd
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- [02:51]
Colin Cowherd
More must watch TV from Vice Sports they have the show called the Grudge. It's a new series that's going to relive and unpack many of sports most intense personal and team rivalries exploring egos, history, high stakes drama that turn ordinary gameplay into unforgettable battles, delivering something for everybody. Each controversy laced episode of the Grudge digs into the grievances between teams and top sports personalities in football, basketball, mma, baseball, hockey, golf. Narrator Will Compton, former NFL linebacker and co host of Busting with the Boys, is going to be joined by a cast of personalities, including retired NFL wide receiver Steve Smith Sr. Four time Stanley cup champ Darren McCarty, Bobby Valentine, renowned NBA journalist Howard Beck and others tell the stories of these animosities. So you'll also see nostalgic archival footage, witnesses, fans, players, coaches connected to that week's story. New episodes of the Grudge air every Wednesday at 10pm Eastern only on Vice TV. Go to vice tv.com to find your cable channel. All right, here we go. Jason Tempf, Podcaster the Volume Hoops Tonight okay, so I picked the you know, it's really funny. I mean, the series is pretty predictable. One team can shoot, that's the Warriors. The other is big, long, athletic and struggles. Sometimes when you take away the transition baskets for the Rockets and you take their athleticism and you mute it to some degree in the playoffs because you're not going to get freebies. You know, you'll get them on a Tuesday night in Orlando. You're not getting them against a veteran NBA playoff team. The warriors played really good defense and Houston couldn't shoot. So I know what the series is. Youth, inexperience, athletic ability, length against this old veteran team that's incredibly well coached with Steph Curry and Jimmy Butler. But I've got to be honest, they showed a station at the end of the year where Jalen Green wasn't scoring. And Jalen Green's fascinating. He's almost a case study for me. So I think everybody should go to college, at least for a year, probably two. But he goes to the G League. I watch his game. He can't play pure Point can't really shoot super athletic and long, but sometimes you kind of leans on that athletic ability around the basket and puts up wild shots. Was. Was invisible in this game. I mean, he was just invisible. And they have more than enough size and athletic ability. And I'm at this guy's career. He's obviously a absolutely dynamic player, but I feel like when I watched him tonight, it's like, okay, in playoff basketball, you have to sort of define your offense. You just can't come down and wing it. Right. You can't just have. You see this in college basketball, Jason, all the time, where you just have lost possessions in college, you'll have eight or nine in a row. And I felt a lot of times I didn't know what Houston was doing in the half court set when you took away the transition baskets.
- [05:51]
Jason Tempf
Yeah, that's half the battle. You got to have a pet action or preferably multiple pet actions that you trust to at least either get you a good shot or get a closeout for somebody so you can start the tic tac toe of trying to break a defense down. And honestly, I'm glad you left Jalen Green because I thought that was the difference in tonight's game. This has been a recurring theme for the Rockets throughout the season. It kind of stems around Fred and Jalen.
- [06:15]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah.
- [06:16]
Jason Tempf
When the two of them are both great, they're basically impossible to beat. When one of them is great, they almost always. As a matter of fact, one of the craziest stats I encountered as I was prepping for the series is that when Jalen Green scores at least 30 points, the Rockets were 13 and 1 this season. Like they just win when they get scoring. So first of all, we should take that little note and just file it away in case the Rockets get Kevin Durant this summer.
- [06:40]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah.
- [06:40]
Jason Tempf
Because that's where it could get really scary is if they have that reliable type of scoring. But Jalen, as you put, is just so inconsistent. He's just as likely to go for seven points in a game and be mostly ineffective as he is to be effective. As a matter of fact, it kind of comes down to he's very athletic getting to the basket and he's a very capable pull up shooter.
- [07:01]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah.
- [07:01]
Jason Tempf
But if those two things aren't going, it's going to be a lot of him forcing the action and looking really ugly. Honestly, Udoka has bailed on him often this year.
- [07:11]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah.
- [07:11]
Jason Tempf
And I wouldn't be surprised if he bails on him over the course of the series if he can't show more.
- [07:15]
Colin Cowherd
If you and I talked. If you and I, you know, it's the close your eyes test. Jordan, Kobe, Bird, Jokic, LeBron. Take great offensive players. I'll go back to my day of George Gervin, Alex English. When you think of really profound scores, you can close your eyes and you can picture their best move. There's certain stock, foundational moves. Michael went to, he had about four, and, you know, it's just like he could get 26 in his sleep. Kobe was more creative with fewer stock moves. He was more creative than Michael with better range. But there were certain things Kobe liked to do. Jalen Green's athletic. Like, I feel like he has to develop two or three foundational moves that he just uses, and it's not a knock. Steph, Chris Paul. I mean, like, Chris Paul has just that behind the back, through the leg, you know, right angle of the free throw line. I can close my eyes and see it in my sleep. He scored 8,000 points on one move. And I just feel like with Jalen Green, I'm like, bro, it's not you. You got to get past athletic ability like, you. You have to create some absolute guarantees. The other thing here, listen, offensive rebounding. Houston's going to dominate. They're so damn big. I thought down the stretch, the warriors offensive rebounding, they were just getting second looks. A lot of it was effort down the stretch. I thought Houston looked like a beaten team with about four to five minutes left. I thought Golden State, the old guys outworked them.
- [08:49]
Jason Tempf
Yeah, it was super interesting to see the flow of the game as Steph. We've talked about how Jalen and Fred weren't producing anything on offense. So that. That was really the difference. Like, you get 17 combined points on 34 shots from Fred and Jalen. So literally a half of a point a shot right on the other side. You get 31 from Steph on 19 shots. And just. I thought Steph was absolutely amazing tonight. I thought I'd have to really think and start ranking, but when you fact and the degree of difficulty, that was one of his more impressive playoff games that I've watched.
- [09:23]
Colin Cowherd
He. He was really special.
- [09:25]
Jason Tempf
He was smothered all over the place, and he kept making it work. But, like, honestly, to bring it back to Jalen Green, like, what I thought was fascinating was Steph found Jalen to be his favorite target on the other end. That's really the issue with Jalen, is that when he doesn't have anything going offensively, he's a weak defensive player when he should be better for being a great athlete. And then on offense he doesn't have the read and react game to make up for it. But it was funny seeing the flow of the game. Steph is carrying the offense there, but you see Houston just slowly chip away and there's nothing else going for Golden State. But ironically it was everybody else in the starting lineup that kind of stepped up down the stretch. I thought Pods was fantastic. Yes, I thought Mood, I thought Moody was fantastic. Moody hit two massive jump shots. That step back at the end of the shot clock. That little mid Ranger, that was a big shot. The huge shot he hit in the left corner right after Fred Van Vliet hit his shot. They just had a response for everything. Jimmy Butler did some beautiful matchup attacking down the stretch. They were brilliant defensively. You saw a really cohesive warrior starting unit down the stretch and honestly, if there's one thing to take away from the Jimmy Butler trade, it really just lined up their best five perfectly. They know who their five is and it just crystallized all of that and it ended up working out. I actually thought it was interesting that they didn't try Kaminga tonight, especially considering how poorly they were rebounding for stretches. But at the same time, like you got steady mistake free basketball down the roster, which I think is what Steve Kerr was shooting for to avoid Houston getting out in transition.
- [10:53]
Colin Cowherd
I mean you could argue if you combine these two rosters, the most athletic guys are Jalen Green, Amon Thompson and Jonathan Kaminga. None of them did anything tonight because I mean, seriously Jason, because that's playoff basketball. You don't get the easy transition transition baskets. You're going to play the same team over and over. You get the best coaches so you don't get cheap points. Which listen, we've always known this, they were talking about this on the broadcast tonight, is that they're not going to blow the whistle. It gets very physical. I mean you could see the warriors late in the game, pushy, chippy. And the three most athletic guys in these two, you could argue the three most athletic guys didn't do anything tonight. I did think Pods, you know, again, he's not a kid, played a couple years in college. Now this, I think this is his second year in the NBA. So you know, he's the classic example where, you know, he's not this five star recruit who they rush through a G league or rushes. And what does that mean? He really has a place, Pods really has a place in this offense from what I can see.
- [12:03]
Jason Tempf
Yeah, I was talking with my buddy Samus Fandiari about this over the course of the last week because we've been amazed to just see over the years how often Steve Kerr has been right about who is a winning basketball player. Like, for instance, like Ty Jerome, who was incredible today for the Cavs, like, that was a guy that Steve Kerr had a lot of trust in, Brandon Pajemski. There were some downs, Colin, over the last couple of years where warriors fans really wanted to bail on Brandon Pajemski and Steve Kerr just never gave up on him because he believed in him as a winning player. The reverse happened with Kaminga. There were stretches where there was a stretch. Last year, it was like a half dozen games in a row where Kamiga went for 20 plus and it was like, oh, man, we might have a future all star in our hands, but Steve Kerr saw through it this. There's not a lot of replicable winning basketball that I'm getting out of this. There's just so much, there's so much emphasis in that organization on bringing in like the right types of dudes and like pods. The way he impacted winning down the stretch was actually really fascinating because it wasn't through any sort of, you know, super talent based type of play. It was just smart basketball. He beats a closeout against Jabari Smith on the left wing, traps him on his backside, bait Stephen Adams into stepping up and throws a perfect bounce pass to Gary Payton, who gets the easy layup under the basket. The play where Jimmy Butler got the putback, or I think it was, Draymond actually got put back. Pods didn't even get the put back. He just came flying in and hit the basketball. But he kept it alive long enough for it to pop right into Draymond's hands and to go into the basket. He just does the right thing every single time. Which creates an environment of factors that Steve Kerr can depend on to elevate the situation for his stars to carry him over the top. I, I think they just, they just always seem to find these guys, Colin. It's crazy. It's an organizational thing for them.
- [13:44]
Colin Cowherd
Well, and you know, I was thinking about Jimmy Butler, who finish 42 minutes, 25 points, 42 minutes fricking, and he plays both ends. And I was thinking about this, watching Jimmy Butler is that he's a very intentional basketball player. Like, you remember his points. And I always said this about Andrew Wiggins. Like he'd scored 26, I didn't remember a bucket. And like Jimmy Butler can score 16 I remember all of them. You know, it's like he's just an intentional player. And there were a couple of times tonight where, you know, they were in the control of the game. I mean, this, this, you could. That after that, that second quarter of basketball is like, Houston's in trouble. Like, they're completely out of rhythm, which the Lakers were, we'll get to in a few minutes. But the difference is the Lakers, you. You kept thinking, well, I've seen them in rhythm. They'll be good in the half court. They never were. Whereas with Houston, you're like, oh, this is, this is a problem. Like, they're just not. They're young, they're long. Jalen Green is lost, and now he's a little panicky. But Butler, you know, this is where I love analytics, but sometimes I just need a bucket. And there were about three to four times tonight with Jimmy Butler, and it's like, no, he's not going to shoot a three. He's just going to work a guy and give you that right angle free throw line. He's just. And in playoff games, so much of it is the games are sold out, the crowds are lubricated and completely into it. This is not people arriving from work late on a Wednesday or a Thursday. These are Saturday, Sunday games. Everybody is there. It's almost like tailgating in the lounge. You go to your seat loud and those 10 point lead go down to four really fast, and Butler just ends. He just gets you. He's got that Kawhi thing. It's not about three. Sometimes you just need a basket to quiet the crowd. And when I watch him, I'm like, that's just playoff basketball. He's just, you know, he, he really senses, oh, shit, the crowd's back into it. This is a, this is a really big possession. And I think Draymond does that and Steph feels that. And I, I saw the warriors do that half a dozen times in the second half tonight. You could just sense, hey, guys, this is a huge possession, even though we.
- [16:02]
Jason Tempf
Lead by eight to your point every single time. Houston got it to four, got it to three. The, the warriors would go like, stop bucket, stop bucket. And it would be back up to eight. Like, they just, they always were able to regain control of the situation. You were talk, talking about go to moves earlier with Jalen Green. That is like Jimmy's patented go to move is the hard in and out dribble with the right hand to step back towards his right hand side. He added that back in Minnesota and I remember that was the reason Philly traded for him. They were like, we need a guy to get us a bucket. And then like it was like the first or second game after he got traded there, he hit a game winner on that exact same move off the right wing. That's Jimmy's go to move, is he can just do a hard in and out out with that right hand to get some separation. And again to your point, you practice that shot so much and then when you end up in these situations where it's like you've got to create something out of nothing, it's great to have a staple, something that you can depend on that's going to give you a decent shot at knocking something down. And you talked about the three versus mid range thing. You know, when you get into a large sample, that extra point matters because you're, you know, over the course of a hundred shots, if you get an extra point then you know that can make a huge difference. Right? But at the end of a game, no one cares what your per 100 efficiency is. It's about that possession. You got to get a bucket on that possession. And if Jimmy can hit that step back at 50% that's actually a better shot in that situation than even like even a step three. That's 39% right? Because there's a 61% chance that it's going to miss. And so it's really nice to have a big forward for them that they can go to in those situations that can create a shot that has a little bit less variance closer to the basket.
- [17:45]
Colin Cowherd
So I picked, I think I picked the Rockets in seven in this one and I don't want to overreact but there were just, were things I saw tonight like IME Oduka will obviously, I mean this is the playoffs. The Lakers, obviously you're going to get a much more physical, intense Laker team in game two. But there are some things, I'm not sure they're correctable. I think, I think the Rocket staff has lost confidence in Jalen Green and that's a problem. Nobody in LA has lost confidence in Austin Reeves because he didn't play particularly well. So I mean I, I don't know, I just watched that game tonight and I'm like, man, Jalen Green is a non factor and is a little bit wild now and like he had a couple open looks in the second half. You're like, oh no, he didn't want to shoot. Like he doesn't, he doesn't trust this at all. It's hard to snap out of that in a series. So I'm, I'm going to watch one more game, but I think I was on the wrong side of this. Do you still like the Warriors?
- [18:43]
Jason Tempf
I, you know, I still like the Warriors. I want to say this though, Colin. I, I think if you're a Rockets fan, you could be sitting here and saying the guard battle could not have gone worse in our favor. Like Fred and Jalen laid absolute stinkers and Steph played like we talked about earlier, one of the better playoff games of his career and it was a three point game game with a few minutes left. And so there is a lot of potential for Steph to have a little bit more variance and have a poor shooting night for Jalen Green to have those great nights. I talked about him going 13 and 1. He did that against a lot of good teams too. There were nights in the regular season where Houston played a good team and Jalen was good and they won. So like there's a lot of variance there. That's why I still think, I still think there's a good chance this series goes longer. Like it goes a solid six games. But yeah, it's just, it's really difficult for me to imagine a scenario where the Rockets out execute the warriors in the half court or in offense, part of the, part of their attack for four times in two weeks. Like it just seems too unlikely to me.
- [19:46]
Colin Cowherd
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- [21:18]
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- [21:21]
Colin Cowherd
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- [23:55]
Daniel Jeremiah
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Greg Rosenthal
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Daniel Jeremiah
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Greg Rosenthal
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Daniel Jeremiah
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- [24:32]
Colin Cowherd
All right, the Lakers, let's talk about that. Laid an egg. This was a pretty easy game to watch. I kept waiting for them to snap out of it. Timberwolves were much more physical and they're a physical team and you knew they were going to ugly it out. That was, I mean, it was just like, guys, we're not winning artistic matchups with this team. We're not going to be pretty. And they have players who can play ugly. Naz Reed, Julius Randall, Goldbert. They can play that game. And I'll get to Ant in a second because I think he's really getting to be a really refined, really smart player. But I was really shocked by the lack of energy. Little criticism to JJ Redick. I kept thinking they played with a little bit more energy in the second half. I thought for spurts. But I mean this was, in football terminology, this was kind of a butt kicking, like physicality, intensity. I mean, Minnesota took it to the Lakers. They just were a much more energized team and little surprised the Lakers didn't shift into another gear. I I really never felt they Were the more physical team. They didn't even fake it. Were you surprised by that?
- [25:58]
Jason Tempf
I was super surprised. This Lakers team has always had a little bit of a tendency to have, you know, inconsistent intensity from game to game. But I've always felt like championship teams know when it's time to go and I would be lying to you if I'm not. If I said I wasn't super discouraged that like you look at a team like OKC that is just like we're going to come out and we're going to embarrass Memphis today because this is step one of this two month long journey where we're trying to get the trophy. And there were three teams I watched yesterday, or I should say over the weekend that looked like really unprepared for playoff intensity. And it was the Bucks, the Grizzlies and the Lakers. They look just really unprepared for the intensity stretching even down to LeBron and Austin. And so I want to start here. I want to give credit to Minnesota. I thought they threw an incredible punch yesterday. I thought Ant was super measured and didn't play into the game plan making stupid forced decisions around the rim. He took the kick out opportunities that were there. Everyone defended. Julius Randall did a wonderful job defending both Luca and LeBron. The bigs did really good on switches against everybody but Luca. I thought they, their spot up shooters shot really confidently from all over the floor. As things got tighter late, Julius Randall and Ant both showed really high level, tough shot making. Yeah, Minnesota threw a great punch. But when I went to watch the film this morning and for anybody listening, there's a film session on our YouTube channel that you guys can check out. In that film session, I came away feeling a little better in the sense that there were just so many obvious things that the Lakers could do better. That said, I also think there's a version of this call in where the Lakers bring a more intense effort and it's not enough. And so that's what I'm really curious about with game two. I feel relatively certain that they're going to come out out on Tuesday ready to fight and they're going to be ready. And I'll have my eyes on that first quarter because if the Lakers come out and they control things and it's like, here we go, this is our team. This is what we look like when we're engaged and we're better than these guys and we can show it, I'll feel better about kind of chalking up what happened. Saturday night is a Lack of intensity, a lack of being ready. But if it's halftime, Colin, and Minnesota's up by like three and LeBron and Austin are still struggling, that's where I'm going to be sitting there like the Lakers are in a world of trouble because this is, as we saw in the Denver series last year, the Minnesota physicality never lets up. It just keeps coming until the end of game seven. And you have to find a way to survive it.
- [28:27]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah, I mean, listen, Denver didn't have a good first half. Boston didn't have a good first half. The Knicks did not have a good first half. Like it happens where the favorite comes in or a team that's got a ring and Denver comes in and, and you know, the Clippers outplayed him and the Pistons outplayed the Knicks early in Orlando. You know, Ben Carroll's a great player, just a great player. Now he, by the way, has a couple of stock moves. Like there are things he does consistently every time I watch him play and half court he's a really good player. Also went to Duke, had great coaching, you know, briefly, but great coaching. But I just kept waiting for the Lakers and let's throw this out there. It was J.J. redick's first playoff coaching game. And Chris Finch is a veteran and Chris Finch is a really smart guy. And I said this yesterday on my post game that, that Minnesota is a highly functional and well coached Memphis, where you've got a defensive presence at the rim. Zach, Edie and Gobert, you have a hyper athletic star. And John Morant and Ant. Ant now is separated. I think of the two players much more mature. Then you have kind of a physicality with. You have kind of a tough guy in Julius Randall. You know, Memphis has a couple of tough guys. Bain, you know, a physical presence. And the difference is Minnesota's more mature and they're better coached. And I think Ant really become a refined player. Like, you know, it was funny, they led by 11 at half. He had eight and it was just like I thought the word you used. He let the game come to him. He's a very measured player now. And it's like. And I think that's really hard. I think that's hard when you're in that, you know, you're in those prime early show off years where you can do a lot of things. Your energy is through the roof compared to half the guys, the veterans you play. And I think that comes down to a kid. Every time I watch Ant, every year, Jason, I see a better player and I don't. With John Moran. Like, I. With John Moran, I'm like, okay, I know you're athletic, bro, but you're not. Your shooting's getting worse. I think Ant's really becoming you. I guess this is the way I would put it. I can see the work Ant puts into his game and I can see what the staff, the work they put into Ant in the offense.
- [30:50]
Lenovo Representative
I can see it.
- [30:52]
Jason Tempf
To your point, these two guys faced off in a playoff series in 2022 where jaw looked like the better player year. And what has happened since then, Ant has demonstrably, massively improved year over year. And Ja, I'd argue, is worse than the player he was in 2022. Like, he's not. He's not able to inflict himself on the game the way he used to. Again, the Grizzlies are a whole other thing. I have so many thoughts. They're called. We can have a fun conversation about them at some point in the future. But like, with Ant, I want to credit him for pushing through some of the reps that he had to work through. Like, I don't know if you know this, Colin, but Ant was the most blitzed player in the NBA this year. Year. And what that means is every time he went into pick and roll, the guy who was screening him, his defender would double team Ant as he was coming off of the screen. So one of the reasons why they're not blitzing him for the reason you blitz Steph Curry, you blitz Steph Curry because you don't want Steph to get a three coming off the screen. They're blitzing Ant because they don't think he can pass. Colin, they're double teaming Ant at the end of games because they don't think he can pass. It was the narrative all season coming into this series. It was all everybody would talk about. And so I want to. I want to give Chris Finch some credit here too, because I think him and his staff literally went up to Ant and they were like, you cannot shoot your way through this series. You have to pass your way through the series. And I thought he did a wonderful job letting the game come to him. He, like, wouldn't take a 3 early in the game. He was like letting the game come to him. But then all of a sudden in that second quarter run he starts or in the third quarter run, he starts letting it fly in transition as the momentum is going. He gets started to get aggressive when the game called for it. But he just took what was coming to him there in the first half. And I just thought he's, you know, we've talked a lot about where Ant rakes in the league and at the beginning of the season I put him at number five. And that might have been too high at the time, but really, Colin, is he not the fifth best player in the league now? I mean, you know, Tatum and Giannis and Luka and. Or Tatum and Giannis and SGA and Jokic are the top four. Luka hasn't really been able to regain his footing since he got hurt earlier this year. I don't know of a player who's playing better basketball other than maybe Steph. Like, like there's ants. Ants crawled right back up that list after getting kind of like, you know, criticized all year for not managing those double teams very well.
- [33:05]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah, it was, it was such a strange game because it, you know, it just lacked, you know, you watch. And let's talk about the Nuggets and Clippers. That game was great.
- [33:15]
Jason Tempf
Oh, yeah.
- [33:15]
Colin Cowherd
And I mean, the intensity of that game from the first minute was just insane. And I really thought the Clippers, I picked the Clippers. I think in six or seven games in this series, better coach, better defense. I thought they'd. And by the way, I think I still like the Clippers, but I thought the last. You know what's funny about Jokic, he's not a very good defender. But I was thinking about this. I went on a long walk today and I was thinking about that series in the game is that historically it's not just that he scores, he rebounds, he's got the ball in his hands. You cannot ask a 7 foot guy that's 265 to honestly carry the offense, including the ball handling and the passing. You know, Kareem could score 30. He wasn't handling the ball right. And so it's like Jokic isn't. He doesn't put a lot of effort. I mean, Harden blew past him about six times in the first half. But I will say this. In the last five minutes, he does lock in. He's not a great defender. But the last five minutes of the game, everybody on the Nuggets was playing real defense. They were locking in. He was putting bodies on people. But as I watch Jokic, I'm like, listen, man, look at the size of him. Nobody asked Kareem or Shaq or Akeem to bring the ball up, set the screen, direct traffic. I almost give him a pass defensively because I do think late in games he's much more engaged on that end.
- [34:53]
Jason Tempf
I thought he was pretty great on defense for the entire second half of that game and most of the second part of the second quarter. There was a timeout right when the Clippers went up, I think 51, 36. And Jokic came out right out of the timeout and just started pressuring the heck out of Zoo and was just flying around making extra efforts. And he was brilliant in his pick and roll defense in the second half, getting deflections, forcing turnovers. And while I agree with you, Colin, that it's ridiculous to ask Nikola Jokic to be the most high usage player that we've seen really in recent NBA history while also having to be such an important part of their defense, it is a lot to ask and I totally agree with you. But the Nuggets need him to be if they're going to win. And to his credit, that's what he was, it's what he became in the second half of that game. And like I also thought he did a nice job of, of just taking what the defense was giving him at late in the game. Like it, he was trusting Russell Westbrook repeatedly over and over again on these kickouts and on these cuts to be the guy that can make the defense pay for ignoring him. And I just thought, I just thought Jokic was amazing. And honestly, Colin, like I will never change my pick after one game. I'm with you. You need to get two games worth of evidence. But I was really disappointed in the Clippers and their overall just kind of like connective playmaking, you know? Know Kawhi Leonard is amazing as he is. It can be a robotically efficient scorer, but he's never been good at managing double teams. He's never been a very good passer.
- [36:24]
Colin Cowherd
No.
- [36:24]
Jason Tempf
I remember for the first like decade of his career, or not quite, it was like the first like seven or eight years of his career, he never logged a single game with seven assists. Like he just struggled to generate shots for his teammates.
- [36:34]
Colin Cowherd
Average one or two for several years.
- [36:38]
Jason Tempf
Yeah, like he's never been a great playmaker. The connective playmakers like Chris Dunn, an elite defensive player, a guy that can knock down those shots in the corner. But you start making him make decisions, it could get tough. There was plays where Nick Patum was fumbling the ball around, even Zoo a little bit. The read and react stuff can slow down. And so honestly, like Denver I think has a more realistic pathway to win this series than people think, because I don't think they have to be that great defensively to slow down this Clippers team, they just have to be good enough to prey on that indecision that they have to prey on those mistakes. Like, you can double Kawhi, Colin, you can double Kawhi, and he's going to make some mistakes. And so I do think they have some advantages here. And I came away from that game feeling like Denver had a better chance to win the series than I thought beforehand.
- [37:23]
Colin Cowherd
You know, it was really interesting. So I've never been a huge fan of Westbrook and I, and I say this, I'm not a huge fan of basketball players that are hyper athletic, six four and under, and can't shoot because without the hand check, they will get to the basket and eventually get hurt. Derrick Rose, John Wall, Ja Morant, like, it's just a cliche. You can't get, you can't stand in front of these guys. They get to the basket and just get clobbered. And that's why guys like Steve Nash or Curry can last longer because they can pull up and they don't have to always finish at the rim. And Westbrook, when they put him in late in the game, the announcer said, you know, it's the full experience with Russell Westbrook and he did not shoot well. He hit a big three. But I got to tell you something, his. The one thing, I will defend him forever when he's on the floor, you know, he's on the floor, he jumps. His energy is profound. I mean, he, he is a tremendous rebounder for his size, like a treme. He plays way bigger than his size. And I was, I came out of that and I'm like, listen, man, he didn't shoot well. He had one big three. He was a big deal down the stretch. He, it's. He just, he's just going so fast. You know, he doesn't have a ton of self awareness. I mean, he's kind of like blinders on going to the basket. And you're like, russ, no, no, no, no, no. Situationally, sometimes he can drive me crazy. I thought he was so important down the stretch for them.
- [39:00]
Jason Tempf
The, the biggest weakness that Russ has had in his career is he only has one speed and that's like just balls to the walls, like at like 100% intensity. He doesn't know how to play any other way. And so that just manifests in a lot of mist. Manifest in a lot of playmaking.
- [39:13]
Colin Cowherd
Yes.
- [39:13]
Jason Tempf
Like, like I thought, like, you know, there's always this scale with Russ where it's like, will the damaging plays outweigh the good plays? And last that game yesterday was such a perfect example of what happens when the good badly greatly outweighs the bad. Like he was fantastic down the stretch of that game. He like straight up bullied Kawhi Leonard one on one and got an offensive rebound put back. He had the big steal at the end when the the Clippers cut it to 33 and they had a chance to tie the game at the end. Hits the big three in the left corner repeatedly found himself available as as a cutter under the basket with Jokic. He you mentioned the rebounding. Like I think Russ is one of the better defensive playmakers in the NBA. He is not a disciplined defender. He will make a lot of mistakes and he'll gamble a lot. But if he gambles and gets right a couple times in a row, they can be massive momentum swings. And dating all the way back. I mean Colin, that first year that he went from the Lakers to Clippers before Kawhi got hurt, if you remember in that first couple of games, the Clippers looked really good against the Suns. Kawhi was like kicking KD's butt head to head. And Russ was amazing. He was a wrecking ball in the early part of that series. Did an amazing job defending Devin Booker because he's just this big athlete that just never has an off button. And he can be a devastating playmaker. The key is keeping him in a very small room. And that's the beauty of what the Nuggets can do with him, is they can keep him in a very small role. They could even be like, hey, Russ's head is not in it tonight. Sit him. Bring in Michael Porter Jr. Like they can there. They have the ability to play Russ when he's hot and to pull him when he's not. And that's the flexibility you need to benefit from that playmaking.
- [40:58]
Colin Cowherd
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- [42:04]
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- [43:39]
Daniel Jeremiah
The 40s and free agents Podcast with Daniel Jeremiah and Greg Rosenthal has prepared you for the 2025 NFL Draft.
- [43:46]
Greg Rosenthal
We've told you what last year's playoff teams need to return to the postseason.
- [43:50]
Daniel Jeremiah
And how teams with new coaches should approach the draft.
- [43:53]
Greg Rosenthal
So as draft season comes to a close, we've got you covered. Before your favorite team goes on the clock, we'll break it all down. We'll once all 257 picks have been.
- [44:01]
Daniel Jeremiah
Made, listen to the 40s and free agents podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [44:12]
Jeremy Hobson
We live in a divided country. I am a lifelong Republican with all kinds of different people.
- [44:18]
Talkspace Representative
You know, I'm a mother, I'm a grandmother.
- [44:21]
Jeremy Hobson
That's why we started the Middle with Jeremy Hobson. It's about bringing not from the extremes, but from the vast middle into the national conversation.
- [44:29]
Jason Tempf
Anna, I'm calling from Las Vegas.
- [44:31]
Jeremy Hobson
Each week we bring together an all star panel. Mark Cuban, so great to have you on the Middle.
- [44:36]
Jason Tempf
Thanks for having me, Jeremy.
- [44:37]
Jeremy Hobson
Neil Degrasse Tyson, welcome to the Middle.
- [44:39]
Colin Cowherd
Thanks for having me.
- [44:40]
Jeremy Hobson
And hear from ordinary Americans from all over the country on the most important issues.
- [44:45]
Jason Tempf
Hi, my name is Venkat.
- [44:46]
Colin Cowherd
I'm calling you from Atlanta, Georgia.
- [44:48]
Jeremy Hobson
And when you subscribe to the Middle, you also get an episode episode each week called One Thing Trump did that focuses on just one item from the avalanche of news.
- [44:57]
Jason Tempf
We should be examining what our government spends its money on and are these jobs necessary and what are we doing here? But that doesn't seem to be what we're doing in this situation.
- [45:05]
Jeremy Hobson
Listen to the Middle with Jeremy Hobson on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [45:15]
Colin Cowherd
One of the things that was great about that game, there were so many years in the NBA. I mean, Harden and Kawhi, I mean, I mean, that center for the Clippers. Ten years, I think, isn't it for Zubots?
- [45:29]
Jason Tempf
I think for zoo?
- [45:30]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah, it's 10 years. Yeah.
- [45:31]
Jason Tempf
He's been in the league for a while.
- [45:32]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah, Lakers, Clippers, you know, Jamal Murray, Jokic, Michael Porter's been around. I mean, you know, Christian Brown's a young guy, obviously. Batum's been around forever. And it was, it was really cool. It was a, it was a veteran NBA tug of war. Both rosters knew. They're going to let us play. They're going to let us play. You know, like some of these young teams, like, they're like, whoa, there's no, there's no whistles. Like, it's like, I mean, it's just a whole different ball game. And I mean, you and I have discussed this. Like, they're just going to let guys play and the further you go. But it was like the Clippers and the Nuggets was like, that was grown up men's basketball first. Everybody knew they could push a little more and they could lean on you a little bit more. And the physicality just, I was just sitting there. I didn't miss a second I thought this is great basketball. And I said this. I don't. You have to understand in football or hockey you can't take, you can't take a playoff. You can get hurt. In baseball it's pitcher against batter. Nobody wants to be embarrassed. There's an intensity that's guaranteed between the pitcher and the batter. But in basketball there's a lot of games and these are big bodies and if you've ever seen a retired 6 foot 10 NBA player, you know they look like they got tackled. I mean they're just walking, they have bad backs and it's like you cannot expect these guys to play 38 to 44 minutes, 82 games in the regular season and play with this kind of intensity. They're traveling constantly. But you get into the playoffs and Denver and the Clippers was like oh snap, first possession. And it's like, I think it has the makings of a, an incredible series. Just all these veteran players. I don't know, I just sat there and I was like, damn, this is great basketball.
- [47:27]
Jason Tempf
We know how everybody plays. Like we know Kawhi's game so well. Now we know James Harden's game so well. Now we know know what the Muriokic two man game looks like. Aaron Gordon, what he can do. Like I think the most fascinating chess match so to speak of this series. Or, or, or like kind of subplot of the series. I do think the Clippers are more talented. I think they're top four. When you, when you factor in all that stuff, I, I think that the Nuggets looked like the smarter team in that game. Now this is an interesting example of how it can come down to the players because David Adelman obviously a rookie coach getting his first opportunity. We have Ty Liu, who's a championship winning, who's well respected as a top five coach in this league. But you get into the game and it's like Aaron Gordon has James Harden on him and he just knows all these little ways to punish James Harden for not having the size. And the Nuggets know when Aaron Gordon has that type of matchup, how they can capitalize on it with his offensive rebounding or in two man game with Jokic. They know like even Jamal Murray it's like oh, his mid range jump shot was just terrible in that game. He could not buy a mid Ranger right in clutch time he just switches to taking threes and hits two massive threes down this stretch. The two man game with Jokic and Murray was so effective down the stretch that the Clippers Started triple teaming it. They brought a third defender over every single time. They knew how to get the ball to Christian Brown. They knew how to get the ball to Russell Westbrook there. The Nuggets are just so sure of how they want to play every single possession.
- [48:54]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah.
- [48:54]
Jason Tempf
That like they are just more reliably going to get to their ceiling than the Clippers, who I think can suffer from a little bit of inconsistent basketball IQ on the roster faster and they can have more variance in their performance. And there will be games where the Clippers just look like they outgun them because it's like Zoo has 25, Harden has 27, Kawhi is 30, and Norman Powell pours in 18 on, you know, 6 for 6 from 3. They'll have games like that. But I think that they'll. They'll have more variance throughout the series because the Nuggets, I think, are a little bit smarter.
- [49:21]
Colin Cowherd
Well, I also think there's an advantage, Jason, like when you have an elite score. Jokic, sga, Jason Tatum, the year, like Luca. The advantage is if a play gets loose, if it's a possession, the ball gets kicked around, you know who get the ball, you know who to get the ball to. Like the warriors had a couple of bad possessions, you know, and here comes Houston back. It's like, okay, every guy run up the court's like, let's get it to Steph, let's get it to Jimmy. And like Houston is just athletic. And it's like, well, Fred Van Vee is not playing well. Well. And Jaylen Green's lost now. Obviously they're big. He from Turkey is just a fantastic player. Sengun is a fascinating player to me because first of all, very highly skilled. He's got beautiful touch. I mean, it's just crazy how easy he makes the game look from like 8ft in it. Just both hands, it's like, God damn that guy. And he was like the 16th pick or something. He was like middle of the first round. But I guess going back to the point is I think the reason Denver, when you have Jokic or Oklahoma City with sga, it's like anytime you're kind of sputtering, it's just okay. Everybody walking the ball up the floor knows where you're going. And I thought Houston was kind of paralyzed by. They didn't trust their backcourt, like, who's taking shots and you just watch. It's almost a panic. When I watch Houston late in this game, it's like they're not sure who to go to. And I Thought Denver down the stretch, really knew who to run the offense through.
- [51:08]
Jason Tempf
Yeah, that's been steady for them forever. And you know, to your point, that's, that's the organizational, you know, thing that Houston is missing. It's just that overall decision making iq, you cut the lead down to four, and then Jalen Green tries to shoot a layup through five guys, which goes exactly how you would have expected it would go. Amen. Thompson shot a layup into the bottom of the rim, like, literally threw it up into the bottom of the rim like that. Like, there's, there is a. There's this ruthless execution you get with the good teams where it's like, if you're going to beat the warriors years, you're gonna have to hope that Jimmy and Steph miss. Basically. Like, they're. They're gonna make sure that they get the ball to their best players and that they get stuff that they like. Like they're not gonna. They're not gonna bail a possession where Amend Thompson's looking around. It's like no one wants the ball. Wait, so you guys want me to do it?
- [51:59]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah.
- [51:59]
Jason Tempf
All right. Okay, then I'll go do it. You know, and it's like there was a bunch of those. He took a shot over Steph that he made a little post up shot. Like, there's no, like, rhyme or reason to the offensive process for Houston. And by the way, continuity does play a role there. Denver's been playing with roughly the same group of guys forever. They just know how they want to play now. There's no, there's no indecision in that organization.
- [52:20]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah, no, I think that's perfectly put. You just forget how many possessions in the fourth quarter. With four minutes to go, Denver has had over the last eight years with Stefan Draymond on the floor. And now Moody's got a lot of games involved in it. Like, you've got your new guys, you've got Jimmy and Post, and there's some new guys, but it's, you know, you're just watching them and it's like you watched, I mean, not the Knicks, you know, when you've got veteran players. Jalen, Brunson and Cat, they had a really good last eight minutes. The Celtics in the second half, there's a lot of. It's like, guys, they've had a lot of practices and a lot of reps. They know where the ball's going. By the way, Jason Tatum kind of fell on his wrist, but he came back and played. They're going to win this Series. They're probably going to Sweep the series. OkC looks like they'll definitely, probably sweep the series. I watched Orlando and I thought to myself, they're the kind of team that athletically, like, they've got a couple of players where they come down, they get really good looks. They got, they get in that game a couple of times. I'm like, they may not be as long or as athletic as Houston, but I felt Orlando came down and got really good looks against a very good Boston team. Is it coaching? Maybe it's just Bancaro Wagner, but I don't know. I look at Orlando and I'm like, it feels like they're just missing a piece. You think they win a game in this series?
- [53:57]
Jason Tempf
You know, I came away, I, I picked a sweep in that one because it's like exactly like the Rockets warriors series where Orlando, Orlando has been so far and away the worst jump shoot team in the league. That out of a hundred Orlando Magic jump shots, they are 5 points worse than the 29th ranked team. Like they are 5% worse jump shooting than the worst team in the league above them. Like they cannot shoot. So I thought for sure they would have just a really hard time scoring in this series. But what Orlando presents to Boston, that makes things really difficult for them is they can switch their screening action and they're really big and physical. So Tatum and Brown can't just bully their way to the basket against them like they can against some other teams. And so they can keep the ball in front in bait Tatum and Brown into really tough shot making, which they more or less did. It was Derek White that kind of blew the lid off of the arena. Incredible in Peyton Pritchard. All those Derek White threes were so difficult too. It's like, I don't, they got to feel like a shotgun blast to the chest when you're an Orlando Magic fan when Derrick White just hits a contested 27 footer at the end of the shot clock. But you know, honestly, Colin, like, they have a bright future because, because Franz and Paulo are getting better and better every year. Jalen Suggs is out of the lineup right now with an injury. Jalen Suggs, when healthy, is the best guard defender in the league and a guy that is a very effective two man game partner with Palo Uncaro setting inverted ball screens and slipping out of it. Imagine him as like a combination of KCP and Christian Brown. Like a really, really good movement shooter, but also like a big strong athlete at the position and he's the guy that Ties it all together for them. Because when you put him and Jonathan, Isaac and Franz and Paulo, with Wendell Carter out there, they can switch one through five. They're massive. They've got plenty of offensive talent. That's the group where, like, I could see in a year or two being a major upset threat for some of these top teams in the Eastern Conference.
- [55:55]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah, that's how I felt. I, I, I just watched them and I thought, this is a real team. This, these, these guys have, they're big, they're strong. Bank Arrow is a tremendous player. He is a. He's just going to get you buckets. Yeah.
- [56:08]
Jason Tempf
Really quick. Colin, you, we talked about this on Wednesday. If you remember, the, the big dudes who have some skill are really crushing in the modern NBA. Shangoon's a great example. Paolo's a great example.
- [56:20]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah. Shangoon is. God, it's just watching him. And he was an all Star this year, wasn't he?
- [56:27]
Jason Tempf
I believe so, yes.
- [56:28]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah. Yeah, he was an all star. And it's like, when you watch him, you're like, his game can be pretty. I mean, he can bounce. He and Draymond are bouncing back and forth and he wouldn't play into Draymond's green. Draymond was hooking him and just trying to irritate him. And he was just like, what are you doing? But, man, there is something. You know, these international bigs, man, they're pretty. He's got a beautiful touch around the basket and he's not jumping over people. He's not. He just. I watch his game and I'm like, oh. It's just. He's a, he's the classic guy that you lock up and you're like, oh, yeah, he had 23 points. Again, it's just pretty. And again with guard play being awful, like, he was really the offense for most of the game for Houston, like, he was it so. Well, I thought it was a really fun first weekend. I'm, I'm going to watch one more Rocket warriors game, but that was an eye opener. Holy crap. Was that an eye opener? Sometimes you see things and you're like, like the Lakers, you're like, they'll make adjustments. They'll be more physical. They kind of were lost. And it was JJ Redick's first playoff game against a really good coach in Chris Finch. And Chris, you know, they had a more obvious game plan. I'm not sure what the gear is because I don't think in a half court offense, I don't know what I get from Houston. But I'll tell you, athletes like, again, they could get KD easily. I mean, they could move off guys and with draft picks easily and not lose a lot of their athleticism. Seriously, I mean, they, they've got so many, so much length and athleticism. If, you know, if the Knicks make a move, what do the Knicks have that Phoenix wants? What they have is what the Knicks don't want to surrender. But God, I mean, Houston is just like one through nine. They're just dudes, athletes everywhere. That Katie, to Houston feels like a real thing. When you, and when you watch them in this game, you're like, dude, they got to have a bucket. They need a second bucket on this offense. And so you can't rely on Jalen Green. So as I'm watching this game, I'm thinking, yeah, kd, Miami could use it him and Houston could use him. That's what it feels like to me.
- [58:47]
Jason Tempf
I hope that KD has learned from what happened in Brooklyn and what happened in Phoenix, which is that he does not need to surround himself with guys like him. He needs to surround himself with guys that do the stuff that helps you win games and allows his greatness to lift them over the top. And so honestly, that's why I'm hoping that KD looks at the situation in Houston and goes, this is the place where I can have a renaissance in my career. Because frankly, they have the setup to do it. They've got the assets. Jaylen Green is the perfect little salary filler piece to try to make that sort of deal happen. And he would be a force multiplier for their defense because as you saw Jabari Smith Jr. He's the guy that has the length for them on the wing. KD is a guy that could be a guy next to Shangon, that makes him better defensively. He's a guy that is an underrated playmaker. Over the years, dating back to his Brooklyn days, Katie was really good at just generating offense by coming off of ball screens and making passes out of it. I think KD is like the obvious ceiling raising move for Houston.
- [59:51]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah.
- [59:52]
Jason Tempf
And I think the numbers pretty clearly state that they can like Colin, like, there's a lot of basketball left in this series. Houston's athleticism does travel. They're not a team that's going to go on the road and come out flat because they're older veterans. Like, like they're going to come out in Game 3 even if they're down 20 and be like, we're beating the warriors tonight, like that that's going to be their attitude. This is going to be a long chore of a series. And can you just imagine that leveraged to another level with a player as polished offensively as Kevin Durant? And talk about like having no ifans or buts about where the ball's going to go. You give it to him every damn time and get the hell out of the way. So like, I, I, I think, I think it's the kind of thing that I think would be really exciting for that team.
- [60:32]
Colin Cowherd
Jason Temp hoops tonight. He's going to be all over these playoffs. All right. That's a good first Sunday under playoff action. I had a lot of fun watching it. I'll still take the Clippers over the Nuggets, but I need to watch Game 2, warriors and the Rockets. Good talking to you, bud.
- [60:53]
Jason Tempf
Good to see you, Colin. Until next time.
- [60:58]
Colin Cowherd
The Volume Is your.
- [61:02]
Lenovo Representative
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- [61:41]
Daniel Jeremiah
The 40s and free agents Podcast with Daniel Jeremiah and Greg Rosenthal has prepared you for the 2025 NFL Draft.
- [61:48]
Greg Rosenthal
We've told you what last year's playoff teams need to return to the postseason.
- [61:51]
Daniel Jeremiah
And how teams with new coaches should approach the draft.
- [61:54]
Greg Rosenthal
So as draft season comes to a close, we've got you covered. Before your favorite team goes on the clock, we'll break it all down once all 257 picks have been made.
- [62:03]
Daniel Jeremiah
Listen to the 40s and free agents podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [62:12]
Jeremy Hobson
We live in a divided country, and our media couldn't be more polarizing. That's why we started the Middle with Jeremy Hobson. It's about bringing voices not from the extremes, but from the vast middle into the national conversation. Each week we hear from ordinary Americans from all over the country. And when you subscribe to the Middle, you also get an episode each week called One Thing Trump did that focuses on just one item from the avalanche of news. Listen to the middle with Jeremy Hobson on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.