The Herd with Colin Cowherd Podcast

Episode: Top 5 College Football Programs, Is Brian Kelly Right For LSU? Michigan Headed For Decline?
Date: September 17, 2025
Host: Colin Cowherd
Guest: Josh Pate (Host of “Josh Pate’s College Football Show”)

Episode Overview

This episode is an in-depth discussion between Colin Cowherd and college football analyst Josh Pate, focusing on the shifting landscape of college football’s top programs. They analyze the true value of coaching jobs at major schools (UCLA, Michigan, LSU), evaluate how NIL (Name, Image, Likeness) and conference re-alignments are changing job attractiveness, debate the future of iconic teams (like Michigan and Texas A&M), and dig into whether Brian Kelly is a good cultural and programmatic fit at LSU. Throughout, they provide candid, behind-the-scenes insight on the realities of modern college football leadership, recruiting, and expectations.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why the UCLA Job Isn’t What It Seems

[02:10 – 06:52]

• Colin argues that UCLA—a school with historic prestige—simply isn’t a desirable job in modern college football, particularly in the Big Ten, due to poor NIL structure, logistical challenges, and competition with other LA and Big Ten programs.
• Quote:
  “I do not think it’s a good job. If I was an agent, I would not send my best clients there. I don’t think it has a huge brand... I don’t think it’s a top 30 college football job.”
  — Colin Cowherd [03:35]
• Josh Pate goes further, placing UCLA outside the top 45 football jobs, citing feedback from coaches and coordinators who wouldn’t leave their current posts for UCLA anymore.
• Quote:
  “Even high-level coordinators would not leave where they are right now for the UCLA job...you’re going asking me to be distant second in my own town. You’re asking me to be second on my own campus when it comes to the athletic department.”
  — Josh Pate [05:37]
• Both agree: the job is hard due to logistics, NIL confusion, and being overshadowed in LA and even within the university.

2. Ranking Top College Football Jobs & Coaching Realities

[06:52 – 11:28]

• Colin brings up the nuance of “best job” versus “brand perception,” noting Texas, Ohio State, and Georgia as benchmarks.
• Josh makes a counter-intuitive pick:
  “Kentucky football would be the job that I would want to take...You blend SEC pay scale without SEC pressure.”
  — Josh Pate [09:15]
• When it comes to winning titles, Josh points to Georgia as the best landing spot: abundant local talent, obsessive fanbase, and a leadership model that works.
• The discussion highlights how money, expectations, and resource disparities have reshaped what actually makes a job “elite.”

3. Michigan’s Changing Identity—Is a Decline Imminent?

[11:28 – 20:05]

• Colin notes how Michigan is widely perceived as a blue blood, but questions its long-term elite status, especially post-Harbaugh, and worries about hiring from within.
• Quote:
  “Michigan sounds like a greater program than it is… I would not be surprised if Michigan went 10 years and was kind of an eight win program.”
  — Colin Cowherd [12:43]
• Josh agrees in part, highlighting shifts in roster management due to the transfer portal and NIL, making program stability harder to maintain.
• Both compare Michigan’s introspective, ‘academic/sweater vest culture’ with the relentless win-at-all-costs attitude of other programs, questioning if Michigan would ever embrace more aggressive football-first moves.
• Quote:
  “We never perceived Michigan that way down south...there's a little more of that vibe coming off Michigan to where I still question if they would let it sink back to that eight or nine win degree without getting ultra aggressive in the hiring.”
  — Josh Pate [19:31]

4. Predictions: Michigan vs. Nebraska

[20:05 – 21:40]

• Colin predicts a close game, giving Michigan and Underwood the edge:
  “I would probably take Michigan again. Underwood, close game. 27, 24. Makes a play late.”
  — Colin Cowherd [20:29]
• Josh is attending the Nebraska game and leans the other way:
  “I think it’s going to be a Nebraska day. I think they’re going to win that game and I think the talk around them becomes a little different.”
  — Josh Pate [21:17]

5. Oklahoma, USC, & the Art of Modern Coaching

[25:26 – 29:26]

• Colin highlights how Brent Venables at Oklahoma and Lincoln Riley at USC have figured out NIL and roster construction, noting it’s harder now to turnover entire staffs due to big NIL buyouts.
• Both discuss how hiring mistakes (wrong defensive coordinators) at big programs can set teams back, and how key course corrections are vital.
• Quote:
  “If they will give [Lincoln Riley] patience, I do believe it'll work out. I've always believed that about Lincoln Riley. I just hate that it took this long to figure it out.”
  — Josh Pate [29:14]
• They reflect on how loyalty and circumstance lead to subpar staffers following coaches on hasty moves between jobs, citing Lincoln Riley’s DC hire as a primary example.

6. Texas A&M as the Ultimate Underachiever

[32:38 – 36:05]

• Colin and Josh label Texas A&M as the “great underachiever in the sport.” Despite limitless resources, they’ve “fantastically fumbled” hire after hire.
• Quote:
  “They have fantastically fumbled hire after hire after hire and they don’t really know what greatness looks like. So they sometimes get confused into thinking they’ve got it and they don’t have it.”
  — Josh Pate [34:30]
• Josh praises new coach Mike Elko as an elite evaluator and developer, predicting that development will become A&M’s new hallmark.

7. Brian Kelly and the LSU Fit

[41:19 – 48:34]

• Colin presses on whether Brian Kelly truly fits at LSU, or if his style and past baggage makes him less than ideal.
• Quote:
  “I like Brian Kelly, but I found the media historically plays favorites… I think Brian Kelly is a top 12 coach. Am I misguided?”
  — Colin Cowherd [41:44]
• Josh scores Kelly’s tenure as a ‘B minus to B’:
  “I love BK as well...his attitude, frankly, I can’t blame him for having. I would have walked in and said, basically, ‘I’m Brian Kelly. I know what I’m doing…’ And contrary to what you people think, the formula to win in South Bend is the same as it is here. Get good players. Develop them. Buy into the process we define around here and we’ll win.”
  — Josh Pate [43:24]
• Both note the cultural disconnect when Kelly “flushed Louisiana out of that building,” but praise his subsequent course corrections, such as hiring Louisiana-connected staff.
• They compare Kelly’s and Lincoln Riley’s stories as outsiders who had to learn and adapt to succeed at their new bluebloods, especially defensively.
• Colin draws the distinction between LSU’s history of ‘winning with the right coach’ (even those less schematically regarded, like Ed Orgeron), and Kelly's increasing comfort and effectiveness.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On UCLA’s Tough Reality:
  “Bottom half of Big Ten in NIL...You’re asking me to be distant second in my own town...take over a place where the NIL infrastructure is really discombobulated.”
  — Josh Pate [05:37]

• On Michigan’s Cultural Challenge:
  “There are always these inflection points...I still don’t think we know fully how much that right there, that past 24, 36, 48 months, was an inflection point that changes the attitude around [Michigan].”
  — Josh Pate [17:52]

• On Who Would Be His Dream Job (If Not Chasing a Title):
  “The job I want? Kentucky football...you blend SEC pay without SEC pressure. Mark Stoops makes close to $10 million a year. The goal there is to win seven games.”
  — Josh Pate [09:14]

• On A&M’s Chronic Underachievement:
  “People say Arizona State. Let me counter with Texas A&M, because I always ask the people that tell me they cannot, cannot, cannot, which I believe is just have not disguised as cannot, I ask what is it you need to win big time in this sport that they don’t have? I already know the answer. Nothing.”
  — Josh Pate [34:30]

• On Brian Kelly Learning Local Culture at LSU:
  “He flushed that place of Louisiana...Now, it wouldn’t have mattered if they won immediately. They didn’t...down there, that’s been held over his head.”
  — Josh Pate [43:17]

Important Timestamps

• [02:10] — Colin opens discussion on the “false prestige” of the UCLA job.
• [04:49] — Josh says UCLA isn’t even a top 45 job anymore.
• [09:13] — Josh on Kentucky as his “dream” job.
• [11:28] — Colin on Michigan’s reputation vs. reality.
• [12:52] — Josh’s deep dive into Michigan’s hiring and its ramifications.
• [20:05] — Predictions: Michigan vs. Nebraska (Josh picks Nebraska upset).
• [29:26] — Coaching transition stories; the “private jet” phenomenon and hard lessons for Riley and Kiffin.
• [34:30] — The A&M “can’t” myth and persistent under-achievement.
• [41:19] — Deep dive: Is Brian Kelly really the right cultural fit at LSU?
• [43:24] — Cultural course corrections at LSU and what winning means for Kelly’s legacy.

Summary Table: Where Top Programs Stand (as discussed)

| Program | Current Status / Outlook | Analyst View | |--------------|----------------------------------------|------------------------------------------| | UCLA | Overrated, bottom-half Big Ten job | Not even top 45 job; avoid if possible | | Georgia | Hottest championship program | “Best job if you want to win a title” | | Kentucky | High pay, low pressure | “Dream job if you want security” | | Michigan | Brand exceeds recent reality | Could slide back to 8-win seasons | | Texas A&M | Underachiever with massive resources | “Haven’t, not can’t; new hope in Elko” | | USC/Oklahoma | NIL & portal finally figured out | Strong future, finally balanced coaching | | LSU | Culture shock for Kelly, now improved | Post-course correction, “B/B- so far” |

Overall Tone and Takeaway

The episode is classic Cowherd: blunt, irreverent, and pragmatic, with Josh Pate offering grounded, inside-industry expertise. Listeners get a behind-the-curtain look at why some jobs are overrated, which programs are best set up for long-term success, and how the new economics and culture wars of college football are affecting hiring, recruiting, and outcomes. The tone is honest, a bit skeptical, and rooted in a deep understanding of the unique pressures and traditions at play.

For listeners seeking insight into where the power in college football really lies—and why perception so often differs from reality—this episode delivers a candid, comprehensive analysis.