← The Herd with Colin Cowherd
The Herd with Colin Cowherd
Colin Cowherd Podcast - Top 5 College Football Programs, Is Brian Kelly Right For LSU? Michigan Headed For Decline?
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- [00:00]
Colin Cowherd
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- [01:42]
Podcast Announcer
By FX's the Lowdown, starring Ethan Hawke. Allow us to introduce you to Lee Raybon a a quirky journalist, rare bookstore owner slash unofficial truth seeker who is always on the tail of his latest conspiracy. This time, his most recent expose puts him head to head with a powerful family that rules Tulsa. Meaning only one thing. He must be onto something big. FX is the Lowdown premieres September 23rd on FX stream on Hulu.
- [02:11]
Colin Cowherd
The volume football season's here and if you want to go to an NFL or college football game, game time is the place for you. The gametime app just gives you the advantage back to you, the fans. It's a hack for unlocking amazing tickets and experiences in a few taps. I love it. Easy to use. The game time guarantee means you can Trust you'll get 100% authentic tickets on time and at the best price. 100%. So they even let you preview your seat on the app. That's Special plus fees are always included. So what you see is what you pay every time. Take the guesswork out of buying professional football tickets with GameTime. Just download the GameTime app, create an account. If you use the code Collins, C O l I n 20 bucks off your first purchase terms apply. Again, create an account, redeem code C O L I N 20 bucks off. Swipe, tap, ticket. Go download the Gametime app today. All right, Josh Pate joining us. He cuts through like nobody else with college football, obviously. Host of Josh Pate's College Football show, which is fantastic. So I got into this discussion the other day. I'm known as a USC homer. So. And I lean into it because I think it's obnoxious and funny, but whatever. We all have our team or our region or whatever. And I was talking to a friend the other day who's a UCLA Bruin, and I said, I just don't think. I don't think UCLA is a good job. I think it's one of those where it sounds like it should be good. You're like, oh, there's a lot of money in Bel Air, but it's an international university. NIL punishes college football programs. You can make. You can be a top 10 college basketball program with about 4 million a year in college basketball if you're not at 16 to 18, which is where USC's at now. I mean, there's a reason USC's defensive front looks better. They bought a lot of it. So my take with UCLA is they are bottom half of the Big Ten in nil because it's in Bel Air. Josh, you can't really. And it's a public university. Your coaches have to drive 45 minutes or an hour to work. I don't think it's a good job. I do not think it's a good job. If I was an agent, I would not send my best clients there. I don't think it has a huge brand. You tell me you live in Nashville. I spent eight, nine years in Los Angeles. I don't think it's a good. I don't think it's a good. I don't think It's a top 30 college football job.
- [04:50]
Josh Pate
I would go further. I don't think it's top 45. Like, you're talking about multiple G5 jobs that are better than UCL, than UCLA. And I, when we say that, by the way, I know people who don't live in this world and who don't immerse themselves in it. They. They almost think you have an ax to grind like you just talked about. Oh, that's USC homerism. Well, dude, I grew up in Harris County, Georgia, so I got no dog in this fight. I'm just telling you what I perceive. But I could be wrong. So then you ask around and you ask, forget agents. Yeah, of course agents are echoing that to me, Colin. I just go to coaches. When I see a coach's name in the running for these jobs, I'll just go to the coach and I'll ask him and they'll usually shoot straight with you. And I just think probably even I've been a little taken back by how many people who in a previous lifetime we would look at, at the job they're at and you would think, oh, it's a slam dunk. Yeah, if he can get the UCLA job, he's going to take it. That in the modern day look at it and say, dude, there's no way. And we're not just talking about head coaches. Like I'm telling you, there are coordinators out there. There are pretty high level coordinators out there that would not leave where they are right now for the UCLA job. And you mentioned it's bottom half of the Big Ten. Well, that's in a vacuum. So yes, it's bottom half of Big Ten in vacuum. But then like you said, when you factor in, hey, if you take the Indiana job, I mean you could do like signity and blow it up. But even if it's not what signity has made it, you're going to live in Bloomington, Indiana, very affordable. So you're asking me to go take a bottom half job. You're going asking me to be distant second in my own town. You're asking me to be second on my own campus when it comes to the athletic department. You're asking me to take over a place where the nil infrastructure is really discombobulated. They're not fractionally as put together in football as they are for basketball there. And you're asking me, by the way, to compete with superpower programs like Oregon and Ohio State and Penn State and Michigan. There's just, I don't have much good to say about it. I wish I was wrong. I wish you were wrong. We're not.
- [06:52]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah, I mean, and the football stadium's 45 minutes off campus. I think there was a time when you could, you could get away. There was a time when it was Terry Donahue and then Dick Vermeil and it would get on ABC and it was part of the PAC 12 and there was something to be said about. You're playing it in Rose bowl and the weather was cold everywhere else, and now you're like, oh, it's warm in ucla. Like, I could see a quarterback or wide receivers, and they do put guys in the NFL. But I think there was a moment when Chip Kelly said, I'd rather go be a coordinator at a Big Ten school than the coach of ucla. And to me, it's like, oh, that's the tipping point. Because Chip knows. You know Chip. Chip's coached at Oregon. He's coached at the NFL. He's like, no. Yeah. And I know Chip. Chip was at my 60th birthday party. Chip likes LA. Chip and his wife love LA. It's not that he's not an outsider. So, you know, it's funny. I said years ago, I felt this. I don't feel it anymore. I said, years ago, I thought the Texas job, I said, take away the top three quarterbacks in the NFL, whoever has those, and they're in their prime. Those are the best football jobs in America. Kansas City, Buffalo, Baltimore, you know, those are the best jobs. You have an NFL pension, your coaches don't leave, you don't have to recruit players. But I always said, fourth is Texas. And as we talk about what kind of job it is, I always think, like, Texas is the best college job. Ohio State, Georgia. Then we can argue, like, Notre Dame. There's an academic umbrella. It's kind of, you know, it's in the middle of nowhere, it's small, it's bad weather. I mean, my wife wouldn't be overjoyed to move to South Bend, Indiana. Like, all things considered, if I said to you, top five jobs, I want you to consider pressure, pay, conference, geographic location. Remember Oregon. You know, as an outsider, if you don't have a lot of players in your state, you generally don't have a good program. Phil Knight changes that. California changes it. If I said to you, top five programs, all things considered, where are you?
- [09:14]
Josh Pate
You're going to think I'm joking with you, but Kentucky football would be the job that I would want to take. Mark Stoops makes close to $10 million a year. The goal there is to win seven games. Rural Kentucky, you can be there forever. He's got a massive buyout, and unlike a lot of these other guys, he is the only place where you blend SEC pay scale without SEC pressure. I just. I can't believe people don't look at Mark Stoops and say, that guy figured it out. Now, if you do Want to compete for a national championship? The answer is the University of Georgia. Georgia has long been that. And I remember when Saban was at Alabama and everyone would look at Saban and is he going to go to Texas? But I remember someone saying, no, forget Saban to Texas. Like, yeah, if he were to take that job, it would suck for Alabama, but he'd do probably the same thing at Texas. He's. I don't think you could dominate much more than Saban did at Alabama. But what people kept saying was, you need to be paying attention to what happens with Georgia. This was like the Mark Richt Georgia era. Yeah, Georgia for a long time. I grew up there for a long time. Georgia, like, good was the enemy of great. And they were just good. It was pretty good. It was kind of good. And there was this. There was this, like, nether region. They were never bad enough for a firing to happen. They were never good enough to win a title. And the rest of the SEC was so happy with Georgia being like that. And finally it got to a tipping point. I really think Saban and, to an extent, Urban Meyer turned the heat up in the SEC enough to where Georgia made a move. And then Georgia went and got Nick Saban's guy and Kirby Smart. And the day they hired Smart, there's no guarantees in this world, but I thought to myself, if that is the guy that can replicate Saban's model or come roughly close to it, if you take those ingredients and you throw them in Athens, Georgia, I just thought it was a powder keg, the likes of which in a generation prior to me being born, they used to talk about Florida. You read the books, you listen to the interviews. You read the Paul Bear Bryant quotes when he was at Bama of hoping no one ever figures out Florida, because if anyone ever figured out the University of Florida, then they'd be a monster to deal with. So Kentucky, if I don't want to win a title, Georgia, if I do want to win a title, would be my two answers.
- [11:28]
Colin Cowherd
Michigan sounds like a greater program than it is. So Ohio State is essentially the sec, just north. The obsession, the passion, the relentlessness. I mean, Luke Fickle gets an hour, you're out. That's the sec, Michigan's patient. Michigan's got the medical school, the business school. And the truth is, if you take Harbaugh out, they'd ham and egged it for a lot of years where it's like, well, they're okay. They're not special when they hired somebody on staff. My first take was oh, that's Michigan. That's not going to work. That's not going to work. That as much as I loved Harbaughn Michigan is that Michigan is a program that people instinctively Helmut Fight song Harbaugh Brady think of a top five or six program, but I don't think it is. I don't think Michigan is a top 10. Now I'm saying this. You take the job, okay? You take the job. Oregon has Phil Knight. Ohio State has historically been more obsessed. Penn State's got even athletes. Oh, damn. Now Washington and USC are in it that I would not be surprised If Michigan went 10 years and was kind of an eight win program. I would not be shocked. That's a lot.
- [12:53]
Josh Pate
Let me break this down, okay? So my perception, my perception was kind of with an asterisk next to it when, when Jim Harbaugh left and they give Sharon the job because I could never prove this, but you could. It'd be tough for you to convince me there weren't some conversations in that building of we've got this looming NCAA thing, don't really know which way it's going to go. Let's just build a bridge right now and who knows, maybe Chiron's the perfect guy and it's a moot point. But at the very least let's just give ourselves an ability to have this conversation again two or three years down the road. And if he's great, it's a moot point and if he's not, it'll give us an open door. I still think there's a little bit of that and that there's a lot of remains to be seen on that. Here's what I wonder. All right, so the malaise that was Michigan, which was basically my upbringing like I came up, I'm in High School mid 2000s, my college years. That's the era you're talking about with Michigan. I'm sort of on the back part of Lloyd Carr and so I hear about when Michigan was great more than I'm watching them great. Texas kind of the same way. Mack Brown towards the end and then Texas is the same way. I wonder if you're allowed to have that for an extended period of time anymore with the way money is in the sport right now. And so also the how volatile roster churn is because if it's going to be, here's what it's going to do. It's going to be really hard to gauge a coach because it used to be like I would define program as a four year rolling Blend of staff grades and recruiting rankings and development and NFL draft production. Well, how am I even doing that if we've thrown it all in a blender? And 38% of your roster year over year is coming from someone else's program. So I don't really know how to grade a coach so much as I know how to grade a talent acquirer. I just wonder if they don't look at it and say, what used to be okay here is not okay anymore. That's why it always helps when your rivals are winning. It helped Auburn down in the south when Alabama was winning. There's no way Auburn doesn't win the title in 2010 if you don't have the reverse reaction to the Saban thing. And likewise at Michigan, you've got Ohio State, which will always turn the heat up on you. But I'm more interested in what you're talking about, the new additions to the conference. What is Oregon long term? I've actually got semi high expectations for Washington. Long term, probably higher.
- [15:14]
Colin Cowherd
Same rest of the country.
- [15:15]
Josh Pate
Yeah, I just. I see where you're coming from. Okay. I feel the same way about the profile of the program. I feel the same way. I just don't know if they. If you've got big enough money that walks around and does what it took for them to get Bryce Underwood. I'm not sure that they just sit there and say, I guess we're good enough with eight wins. Like if that happened, I just think they'd be overly aggressive and keep hiring and keep hiring and keep hiring until they hire their way out of it. Which is a horrific strategy in college sports. But it doesn't mean they wouldn't try it.
- [15:46]
Colin Cowherd
Think about this. Harbaugh won instantly in San Diego, instantly with the Niners. He won instantly with the Chargers, turned them around. Stanford, he didn't win instantly, but he was a 40 point dog. Went to the Coliseum and beat USC. So instantly he changed the culture. Michigan took a while.
- [16:06]
Josh Pate
Yo, dude, that's its own documentary.
- [16:09]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah, Michigan took a while for Jim Harbaugh. Yeah, because I always said this, if you're too worried, one of the advantages the SEC has, like, culturally, they really don't care about the swim team. There are certain universities, the west coast really cares about it. There's some ACC schools that do. Michigan has always looked at Ohio State is like, well, academically, they're our junior college. We wouldn't do what they would do. And my take is Oregon just entered the conference. Oregon has no effect on Ohio State either does usc Or Washington. But I think Oregon, Washington and USC can beat Michigan regularly. I don't think they can beat Ohio State regularly. And that's my take, is that when the PAC 12 came to the Big Ten, there was this sense that those west coast schools, it's big boy football. And my take is, oh, Jim Harbaugh leaves Michigan in five years. We're going to look up and go, they're the school in trouble that USC's humming. Oregon's going to hum Washington whenever they get the right coach is a top 10 program. Let's be honest, James Franklin is one of the top five recruiters of the sport. They're going to be fine. I mean, they have dudes. I just think Michigan, and I know everybody loves Underwood, myself included, but I look at it and I think hired within conference is much stronger. They care about stuff that a lot of football powers don't. I have a weird vibe about Michigan and Ohio State now is playing. I mean they are rolling right now. They are, they feel like Georgia four years ago.
- [17:53]
Josh Pate
I remember when I was, I used to work in a warehouse and listen to you all the time describe fan bases and you would talk about sweater vest fan bases and you're kind of describing the sweater vest ishness of Michigan. So another layer of that theory to test out here is I noticed a different vibe off of them over the past 24 to 36 months with the whole stallions thing, with the whole NCAA investigation. There was, there was this, there was this sort of throwing back in Michigan's face the hypocrisy water balloon of do you guys have looked down your nose at the rest of college football for so long and it's you that's wrapped up in this? And instead of looking and kind of defending themselves or, or you know, apologizing for it, they just kind of said, you know, like, if we got to get the sweater vest dirty, if we got to get some dirt under our fingernails, then so be it. And I don't know long term what kind of ramification that has. There are always these inflection points in the trajectory of programs or businesses or whatever. And you look back on it when you're, you know, doing the documentary or writing a book 20 years down the road and this moment in time affected this, this, this and this downstream? I still don't think we know fully how much that right there, that past 20, 24, 36, 48 months was an inflection point that changes the attitude around there. And it could be nothing, by the way, but it could be something that makes them a little less apologetic about being a little more serious about football. It's not that they weren't, but your point's well taken some places. They will literally do whatever it takes to win. I grew up.
- [19:29]
Colin Cowherd
That's right.
- [19:29]
Josh Pate
I grew up in the South.
- [19:31]
Colin Cowherd
There's about eight of them.
- [19:32]
Josh Pate
Yeah, we never perceived Michigan that way down south. We, we perceived Ohio State like that. We always thought. We always thought Penn State may be like that. We never thought that about Michigan. And recently there's a little more of that vibe coming off Michigan to where I still question if they would let it sink back to that eight or nine win degree without getting ultra aggressive in the hiring. Hiring doesn't guarantee anything. I just don't know that they would sit back and, you know, cross the legs and, you know, sit back in the rocking chair and say, oh, well, at least the GPA is high like they used to.
- [20:06]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah. So, by the way, Michigan faces Nebraska this weekend and it's probably going to be a field goal game. It's at Nebraska. I don't know, I probably would take. I would probably take Underwood making a play and winning the game late. If I had to bet, I would just say, I mean, two really talented quarterbacks, I would. I would probably take Michigan again. Underwood, close game. 27, 24. Makes a play late. What say you?
- [20:34]
Josh Pate
I am going to this one. Never been to a Nebraska game before. Looking forward to it. I believe in a lot of that rule year three stuff, at least at the college level, if that's right and he's there Year three and they scratched out a win against Cincy early on and Cincy's quarterback ran for over 100 against him, by the way, which is something Underwood absolutely could do in this game. I just if a lot of what I believe about them, if their wide receiver core is one of the more underrated position rooms in the Big Ten, which I believe, if I believe that they've got the kind of guys that can stand up at the line of scrimmage, at least stalemate. A team like Michigan, if that's right, this is kind of the way that you prove it's the stage you prove it on. So I don't have a strong feel on it, actually, later in the week we've gotten. I kind of do have a stronger feel on it. I think it's going to be a Nebraska day. I think they're going to win that game and I think the talk around them becomes a little different. Like I thought this fringe playoff team at the outset because I thought they'd get one or two of these key wins, could afford to drop two and be a 10 and two non Big 10 championship type playoff team.
- [21:41]
Colin Cowherd
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- [23:17]
Podcast Announcer
FX is the Lowdown, starring Ethan Hawke. Allow us to introduce you to Lee Raybon, a quirky journalist slash rare bookstore owner slash unofficial truth seeker who is always on the tail of his latest conspiracy. This time, his most recent expose puts him head to head with a powerful family that rules Tulsa. Meaning only one thing he must be onto something big. FX is the Lowdown premiere September 23rd on FX stream on Hulu.
- [23:45]
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- [25:27]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah, no, I mean, they have to go to USC if they lose this game. Oklahoma was clearly the side, clearly the better team. More juniors and seniors. And I think Oklahoma finally has their quarterback. And I think it's interesting. I didn't think Brent Venables would have been my choice, but I do think when a defensive coach gets his star quarterback, there's a magic that happens. That's what's hurt. Mike Tomlin with the Steelers, he just. Big Ben got old. He just can't find the quarterback. And Belichick even proved like defensive coaches once the star quarterback. If you miss on Cam and Mac Jones, you get fired. So I think Brett Venables has found his quarterback for the time being. And it's like, okay, so he's got a bunch of juniors and seniors on defense. He knows defense. He can build culture. He's a tough guy. He was at Clemson. It'll work. It's interesting with Lincoln Riley, he's the offensive guy. He had his quarterback. He found his defensive coordinator. So last week I had my questions about usc, but I watched them last week and I thought. Because when I watched Oklahoma beat Michigan, I thought, okay, this coach is going to work. It's going to work. And you can't just fire coaches, Josh, like you used to, because the Nil, you got to raise $20 million before you buy out the coach. So this I've said the nil is a coach's best friend. So Lincoln Riley is an $80 million buyout. They just built 300 million in facilities. They raised 18 million a year. Lincoln Riley is not going anywhere. But when I watched Michigan, Oklahoma, I thought, okay, he's going to survive here. They're not buying him out. He's going to survive. And I watched. I know it was Purdue, but I watched their defensive front and I'm like, oh, shit, this is a Big Ten team. USC is controlling the line of scrimmage. They mean they are pushing them. Now Michigan State's offense is better. Then after that, it's. Illinois is a real test. I'll be at that one in champagne, a glorious champagne. The champagne's better than the town. But my take was. My take was. Oh, I think Venables and Lincoln Riley found their way. I think the nil looks like a magic elixir, but I think both of those coaches experimented with it, maybe overused it, and now they feel like they've kind of figured out the portal and figured out the nil. My take is Venables and Lincoln are going to work. I know it's early in year three, but I feel it strongly. Do you?
- [28:04]
Josh Pate
Yeah. You are describing something I agree with. Something I have begged Dabo Swinney to explore at Clemson to no success. You're describing what Brian Kelly has figured out in the last year or so at lsu.
- [28:18]
Colin Cowherd
Yes.
- [28:19]
Josh Pate
I mean, he walked in that building and almost from an egotistical standpoint, tried to prove a point by flushing the building of Louisiana people and a huge mistake. And he course corrected on that from a personnel side, and he course corrected on defensive hiring. And now, voila, they can win a game, 20 to 10 last week, and it's hideous, but it's a win. I fully believe what you're saying about Lincoln at usc. Here's the shame of it. The shame of it is he didn't do it when he first got hired. Like, he. He brought a guy with him that was very inferior as his defensive coordinator. I've got my own theories about why that happened, but it happened. All right, so he makes the right move. He made the wrong decision at the outset. He course corrects properly. The problem as we. I think you and I talked about this a couple of weeks ago. Okay. Then you find yourself at a major job, three years in asking for patience, and no one wants to give you patience. But if they will give it to him, I do believe it'll work out. I've always believed that about Lincoln Riley. I just hate that it took this long to figure it out. And, you know, we're still in the stage of that. But I do think he figured it out.
- [29:27]
Colin Cowherd
You know, Josh, what happens is, and Saban found this out when he left Michigan State to lsu. So when you take a job and you're kind of scooting out of town, this is Lane Kiffin at Tennessee. So what you basically tell your staff is, guys, the private jet leads in six hours. If you get on it, you're hired. Well, the truth is, with Lincoln at Oklahoma or with Lane at Tennessee, there's a couple of guys on your staff you're probably not or hoping don't get on the plane. But when they do get on the plane and move their families cross country, then you owe them two years of employment for their kids and their family. So Alex Grinch got on the plane. I think he knew halfway through year one, I can't fire him. It wasn't working. And so I think, and this happens especially in college in the NFL, guys don't jump team to team very often. Andy Reid's out of a job, then people go bid on him. But in college, you sometimes leave big program to big program and you have to get on a private jet and get out of Dodge. And I think what happened to Lincoln and this wasn't the Brett Venable experience, this was not him. Because remember, Lincoln left in the middle of the night and everybody's like, oh, we need a coach. And there was some discussion for a couple weeks. But I think Lincoln had guys get on the jet and you have to be loyal to him. I think this version of the staff, the GM from Notre Dame, Lynn, the defensive coordinator, it's a, it's a grown up staff. It's a really good staff. By the way, Nick Saban, near the end of his tenure at Alabama, I thought had a bad staff.
- [31:06]
Josh Pate
Yeah, you are right.
- [31:07]
Colin Cowherd
I thought he had a really bad. I watched him a couple of big games and I like there's something missing here. The defense is not as good. Nick's the CEO. He, you know, there's nothing you could do at his age. He can't be up 23 hours a day. But I think the US thing, I just think the USC thing is going to work. I don't know if it works this year, but if you doubt if it can coach, watch Jaden Mayava. He is a completely different player than last year. Last year he was sloppy, he was almost immature. Boy, he is on, he is a grown up now.
- [31:43]
Josh Pate
I'm telling you what else to watch. He plays within Lincoln's system. And that sounds commonsensical. There's a guy starting at quarterback for the Chicago Bears right now that Sometimes failed to do that and his talent just bailed him out. And he could do circus things, but also it will drive you crazy as a coordinator, play caller, head coach. But what are you going to do? I mean you got a guy out there and he's got top, top half of first round NFL potential and yet he's, he's just sort of winging it, not playing within your system. And I've fought for a while and I guarantee if you got truth serum in that staff, they're probably a lot more comfortable with their quarterback situation right now because they got a guy they developed, but they got a guy that plays within their system because you can coach around that like you can game plan around that. The other same thing with Milroe at Alabama last year. You can't game plan around this right, this right here we can deal with, right?
- [32:39]
Colin Cowherd
Finally, A and M beats Notre Dame. I was surprised. Were you?
- [32:44]
Josh Pate
I, I was in a boat where I wasn't shocked. I was mildly surprised. I was surprised at the game script more so than anything. Two, two games last week, Georgia, Tennessee, A and M, Notre Dame, both of them get into the 40s and I didn't really see that coming. I just thought to myself, you know, I've, I've. I went to College Station in the spring and all they're talking about is boy, we got that Notre Dame game early in the season and this right here and we know they're that and we think we can be that. That's when we'll go prove it. And we got a three headed monster at tailback. Look at this offensive line. So I'm thinking to myself, 1974 style football and it did not unfold that way. And so what you end up having to do, Colin Klein's the offensive coordinator there. I remember sitting there talking to him in the spring and he said, I'll tell you one thing, we're going to have, we're going to have an increased vertical element in our passing game if our quarterback can execute it. Because they knew they had hit on those transfer portal receivers. Those guys are monsters. One of them was kind of hurt last year, Concepcion. So he's back. Craver is a monster. He said if we, if we got a guy that could pull the trigger, we'll have that. Well, they turns out they needed it in week three and they need to trade points and they need to come from behind. And that was what surprised me, that they were able to sort of on the fly. It's the same way with Kirby at Georgia. But Kirby's been there a long time. So when that game got uncomfortable for Georgia fans last week and the other guys scoring an uncomfortable amount of points, they're totally comfortable being uncomfortable as a team. A and M hasn't proven that. So they don't have that equity. They don't have that benefit of the doubt in my mind. And it's not. They totally earned it the other night. But that is such a huge feather in the cap because there's always been this crowd. Anytime I talk about Texas A and.
- [34:26]
Colin Cowherd
M. Oh, it's the, the, the great underachiever in the sport.
- [34:30]
Josh Pate
It's the yes, it's, it's, it's yes. Bar none. The people say Arizona State. Let me counter with Texas A and M, because I always ask the people that tell me they cannot, cannot, cannot, which I believe is just have not disguised as cannot. I ask, what is it you need to win big time in this sport that they don't have? I already know the answer. Nothing. They just don't have the Wikipedia page because they have, they have fantastically fumbled higher after hire after higher and they don't really know what greatness looks like. So they sometimes get confused into thinking they've got it and they don't have it.
- [35:03]
Colin Cowherd
Right.
- [35:04]
Josh Pate
Right. Mike Elko, though, I will tell you this now. When he came there from Duke, a lot of the personnel people hit me up from around college football and they said, don't know if it's going to work. Personalities could clash. All this and that. A and M just hired the best evaluator and developer that we've seen in quite a while. And these are guys who cover the entire sport. And so you get there and you get all that money and you have the apparatus to go sign top 10 classes, go get guys out of the portal. But notice, unlike Jimbo, notice over the next couple of years the progression and the development of guys on A and M's roster, the ones who get better. There's some notable exceptions out there right now of teams that returned a bunch of starters and they're no different than they were last year. The mark of a program that's got big time upward mobility is their returning starters are actually better than they were last year, which sounds like it's easy to do. It's not easy to do. That I think will be a hallmark of their program. Like, I don't think they're going anywhere. I think they're going to be in the mix for quite a while.
- [36:06]
Colin Cowherd
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- [39:08]
Podcast Announcer
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- [39:35]
Sponsor Voice
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- [41:19]
Colin Cowherd
You know Brian I like Brian Kelly. I'VE said, I remember when Urban melted down with the media in Florida. And I've seen it. College basketball coaches do it. And I've said, you know, you don't see it in the NFL much because you're in a big city, the media's tough everywhere, and you also have an owner above you that you don't want to embarrass the franchise. But in college football, the coach is often the highest paid state employee. You can really control practice. The media's small town. So you get into kind of this kind of power vacuum where you kind of are the biggest guy in the state and you kind of get into your ego. And Brian got very tribal and protective and it, you know, he doesn't have a natty. It took him a while to get it rolling. There was the incident where the student died on campus. Like, there's a lot of stuff here with Brian Kelly. He's not always the most likable. There was the fake Southern accent or whatever it is. But I still contend that I don't know if he has the relentless recruiting energy he used to. I like Brian Kelly, but I found the media historically plays favorites. For years, they were tough on Harbaugh, and I'd be like, guys, he got to a Super Bowl. I know how bad Stanford was. He can coach. Take a deep breath. I think Brian Kelly is a top 12 coach. Am I misguided? Is nobody yet buys him in the SEC because LSU has been. When they have the right coach, they're great. I don't know. What do you. If I. If you had to grade him at lsu, where would you be?
- [42:57]
Josh Pate
About a B minus. B minus to B, I think. Look, first off, I love BK as well, so he's never rubbed me the wrong way. We. I mean, I've gotten along great with him. I think that he walked in there like I told you 20 minutes ago. And there has always been a very, very unique connection culturally, just the fabric of Louisiana and LSU football that I. Yeah, I don't think you can fully appreciate it unless you've been down there for a long.
- [43:23]
Colin Cowherd
That's right. I totally agree.
- [43:25]
Josh Pate
And he walked in. And his attitude, frankly, I can't blame him for having. Because I think I would have been the same way if I were him. I would have walked in and said, basically, I'm Brian Kelly. I know what I'm doing. I know what the formula to win is. And contrary to what you people think, the formula to win in South Bend is the same as it is here. Get good players Develop them, buy into the process we define around here and we'll win. And I think he heard about Louisiana this, Louisiana that, to the point where he almost wanted to prove a point. And dude, when I tell you he flushed Louisiana out of that building, I mean some people that it wouldn't have mattered whether they stayed or went. Desk receptionist. Oh, you're from Thibodeau by. So he flushed that place of Louisiana. Now, it wouldn't have mattered if they won immediately. Right. They didn't. And because they didn't internally and culturally down there, that's been held over his head now on Saturdays, they're fully behind him.
- [44:18]
Sponsor Voice
All right.
- [44:18]
Josh Pate
In recruiting weekends, they're fully behind him. But there are a lot of people that haven't I told you so attitude towards Brian Kelly.
- [44:24]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah.
- [44:25]
Josh Pate
His own state. Because he did that. Well, organizationally, university wise, they course corrected collectively. I don't really think that decision was entirely on his plate, if you get what I'm saying.
- [44:35]
Colin Cowherd
Right.
- [44:36]
Josh Pate
You know, you bring Blake Baker down there as your defensive coordinator, you bring Austin Thomas in as your gm. These are people, you cut them open and it's purple and gold and, and not only that, they're the best in the world, some of the best in the world at what they do. And it's no coincidence that lsu, you all of a sudden, you feel it. You, you can sense it. You could, you could have sensed their defense.
- [44:57]
Colin Cowherd
Their defense looks like defense. Like, like, I mean that was the thing last year. They were atrocious. So to me, I never worried about Brian's offenses. Like, I think he'll always figure those out. He's rough on quarterbacks. But LSU's defense is like Georgia when you got the right coach. It's just all NFL players. It's 11 guys who will eventually play in the. On Sunday.
- [45:20]
Sponsor Voice
Yeah.
- [45:20]
Josh Pate
Which, which was shocking that you have Jaden Daniels there a couple years ago and, and if you told me LSU was going to have a Heisman Trophy caliber quarterback come through, I just blindly say national championship. Tell me who the coach is. I mean, I'm rolling out a top 25 defense if my mom's the DC there. As long as you're keeping in state kids in state. So for that to have failed them was mind boggling. It's just like, like Mario not being able to stop anything last year at Miami with Cam Ward. Crazy. So it's funny that we've talked about this because I feel there's a very, very like closely correlated story that's been told over the past Few years in college football about Brian Kelly and Lincoln Riley. Ironically, the whispers were initially, oh, Lincoln may take the LSU job. Well, then he winds up at. @ USC. So then LSU goes and gets Brian Kelly, and they both had the wrong defensive coordinators at the outset, and then they both corrected, and now they're both massively improved defensively. I just feel like the story arc is headed for a playoff matchup one day. I just feel like usc, LSU one day. But I do agree with you, and it's. I don't think it's something that'll really be appreciated by them unless he wins a national championship there. Because everybody else this millennium has who's been the head coach at lsu.
- [46:37]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah, I mean, listen, Ed Orgeron, who's a very funny guy I love Ed, does not consider a schematic, you know, kingpin of the sport. He's a recruiter. I mean, for years I thought he was more of a position coach, like a line coach than even a coordinator. Broke his heart when he didn't get the USC job. And then I would argue today that LSU team with Burrows, the most talented I've ever seen, period. End of story. I mean, they had the hardest schedule, won every game. So if Ed can do it, and that's not a knock like he's. I mean, Ed would be the first to admit. Ed. Ed never scheduled a bad time. Ed was a distracted, funny, great guy. But I think Brian's too good of a coach. The older I get, I tend to just look at people. And if I have to hire somebody or something at the volume, hire smart people. They'll figure it out, is my rule. And I think Brian. It took him a while. I mean, it just. It took a while. He couldn't get the accent down. But eventually, I think three years in, like, oh, I feel like they figured it out.
- [47:42]
Josh Pate
Yeah, they're one of the teams I'm looking most forward to watching here. The SEC is just going to be a bloodbath by the end of this thing. And they're. They're one that, you know, the Clemson game goes the way it does. I was actually glad this week he publicized the Garrett Nussmeier injury because it's kind of been whispered about in the south that Nussmire had injury leading up to that week one game against Clemson. Like an abdominal thing, never got publicized. And they. They go and win on the road. And then they were very lackluster in week two against an inferior opponent. And then week three, Lagway turns the ball over five times. And LSU wins 20 to 10 and you can clearly tell, hey, we're undefeated. Something feels a little off offensively, right? Well, your quarterback's been hurt. That's, that's what's been off. Here's the thing though, there are teams with healthy quarterbacks that are one and two right now and you're three and oh, that's the surest sign that the defense is fixed.
- [48:35]
Colin Cowherd
Yep. Josh Pate, as always, great stuff, man.
- [48:38]
Josh Pate
Appreciate it.
- [48:41]
Colin Cowherd
The Volume Football is back and for the first time it's on Wednesdays from Omaha Productions, NFL films and Vice TV. NFL Classics after further review relives the NFL's biggest games with the legends who played them and the fans who never forget. Not just a rewatch, but the untold stories behind those plays. Kyle Branch, the host, Bart Scott and Method man for the 2010 divisional round. Jets and Patriots. The underdog jets stunned Brady's 14 and 2 Patriots. It was a huge playoff upset and a cap by Bart Scott's unforgettable can't wait post game interview. So don't miss NFL Classics after further review. It's Wednesdays at 9 only on Vice TV. JLab has the best audio products in the game at affordable prices that won't break the bank. Wireless earbuds, luxury noise canceling over the ear headphones and portable Bluetooth speakers. They just launched the adaptive noise canceling Epic pods. With more than 45 hours of play time, six dedicated microphones and a two year warranty. JLab also partners with some of the top athletes in college football. And now JLAB is getting involved in college football's most exciting time bowl season. JLab has just announced they're the title partner of the JLAB Birmingham bowl returning Monday, December 29th. A key moment in college football featuring top teams from the sec, ACC and the American Conference. Last year's matchup high scoring SEC and ACC battle in this year promises even more glory story. Don't miss the pageantry, the passion and the pride of Birmingham on full display. The JLAB Birmingham Bowl Southern Football done right. Visit jlab.com or find the blue box at a retailer near you. Jlab.com on Fox 1 now you can stream your favorite live sport so you can be there live for the biggest moments. That means NFL Sundays and college football games, nascar, Major League Baseball, postseason and more with Fox one. You get it all live. Edge of your seat plays, high octane moments and that feeling like you're right there in the action. Fox one we live for live streaming now. Home emergencies wait for no one and you shouldn't either. Whether it's plumbing, electric, heating or cooling, HomeServe has you covered. Get a plan from HomeServe for peace of mind starting at 5 bucks a month. That's it@homeserve.com Find out how to save on repairs@homeserve.com HomeServe a subscription for peace of mind not available everywhere. Most plans range between 399 to 1199amonth. Your first year terms apply on covered repairs. Get almost anything you need delivered with UberEats. What do you mean by almost? Well, you can't get a well groomed lawn delivered, but you can get chicken parm delivered. A little escape? No. Delicious bowl of grapes? Yeah. An afternoon stroll? Sorry, no. A burrito bowl? Happily, yes. How about the clear skies? Can't deliver that, but French fries? Yeah. Get almost almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol in select markets. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. This is an iHeart podcast.