Daniel Cormier TV - Daniel Cormier & Ben Askren on Alex Pereira CRAZY title run, Leon Edwards vs. Brady, Buckley's RISE

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Herd with Colin Cowherd

Episode: Daniel Cormier TV - Daniel Cormier & Ben Askren on Alex Pereira CRAZY title run, Leon Edwards vs. Brady, Buckley's RISE
Release Date: January 2, 2025

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1. Holiday Reflections and Personal Updates

Daniel Cormier and Ben Askren kick off the episode by sharing their holiday experiences, highlighting how they balanced family commitments with their ongoing involvement in wrestling and mixed martial arts (MMA).

• Daniel Cormier mentions his engagement with the AWA Youth wrestling program:
  "We had six teams, and we just did, you know, four matches in the morning and had a good time." (02:56)

• Ben Askren contrasts his approach by focusing on family relaxation:
  "We're all decorating cookies and stuff, but I like my kids to be kids." (03:19)

A humorous anecdote unfolds when Ben recounts a mishap involving his family and a golf cart:

• Ben Askren:
  "We get in my golf cart, my sister and my niece. Then they leave the golf cart in the driveway. My 17-year-old nephew and the 12-year-old jump in the golf cart. Next thing you know, I can't find these kids. They crashed my golf cart into the curb, broke the steering column within two hours." (04:56)

• Daniel Cormier playfully suggests Ben acquire more land to prevent neighborhood antics:
  "Just, like, kind of go do whatever you want. Makes it easy." (06:09)

2. MMA Off-Season Insights and Title Contention

Transitioning to MMA discussions, Daniel and Ben delve into the current landscape of the sport, focusing on title opportunities and the dynamics within various weight divisions.

a. Welterweight Division Dynamics

A significant portion of the conversation centers around Leon Edwards and his potential matchups, particularly the call from Sean Brady:

• Ben Askren highlights Brady’s challenge to Edwards:
  "Sean Brady... he wants to fight Leon Edwards in England. He wants to fight him." (07:37)

• Daniel Cormier supports Leon Edwards taking on Brady:
  "I think he should take it. He hasn't fought since July, so, you know, he does need to get back in there at some point." (11:06)

They discuss the importance of giving rising fighters like Brady and Joaquin Buckley opportunities to prove themselves against established champions:

• Ben Askren:
  "I think Leon should fight him. Because one, this is one thing that could happen. If you go and beat the young up and coming guy, he may be one fight from earning another championship opportunity." (11:06)

b. Championship Opportunities and Division Turnover

The hosts explore the necessity of promoting newer talent to invigorate stale divisions:

• Ben Askren:
  "We have a lot of young guys there... So Leon's got to fight one of them." (10:17)

• Daniel Cormier:
  "If you're Dana, you got to push hard to give those up and comers. ... You got to give those guys a shot against some of these former champions and see if they can put a show on." (12:23)

c. Flow State in Fighting

The concept of the "flow state" is examined in the context of fighting performance:

• Daniel Cormier explains the flow state:
  "The flow state happens when every. All of your energy is focused on a singular moment in time and everything else disappears." (19:18)

• Ben Askren shares his personal experience of being in the flow state during a fight:
  "I got on a high crotch, and then I flip him. It was like everything was working. Every transition, every move that I did, every punch I threw, landed." (20:58)

They discuss strategies to enter the flow state, including mental preparation and discipline:

• Ben Askren:
  "Abstain from sex for like a month... Don't eat past like 2:00pm in the afternoon." (24:04)

• Daniel Cormier:
  "If you don't try to hurt him, he's gonna hurt me. That's kind of how I thought about in the octagon." (25:38)

3. Rising Stars and Future Matchups

The conversation shifts to emerging fighters and their trajectories within the UFC:

a. Alex Pereira's Title Run

Alex Pereira's rapid ascent within the UFC is a focal point:

• Ben Askren remarks on Pereira’s swift title challenge:
  "He fought like two fights, and then he got a title fight in New York." (18:30)

• Daniel Cormier:
  "He's been fighting for the belt very active." (18:47)

b. Hano Moicano and the BMF Championship

Discussion includes Hano Moicano's rise and his pursuit of the BMF title:

• Ben Askren praises Moicano's approach:
  "He says he'd be willing to fight Max Holloway for the BMF championship. You into that?" (25:52)

• Daniel Cormier emphasizes the importance of fighting determination:
  "He likes to fight frequently, which is great. I love what he's doing." (28:27)

4. Reflections on MMA's Evolution and Longevity of Fighters

The hosts reflect on the longevity and evolution of fighters within the sport:

• Ben Askren contemplates the aging champions:
  "How much longer can we'll just say the trio of Usman and Leon and Bilal hang on to the top because they're all older." (17:32)

• Daniel Cormier discusses the impact of time on fighters:
  "It is boring when it gets stale up top." (17:33)

They mention Jon Jones as an exception due to his extended career and infrequent fights:

• Ben Askren:
  "Jon Jones has literally been the champion the whole time. Like, that's crazy, dude." (18:27)

5. Closing Remarks

As the episode wraps up, Daniel and Ben provide final thoughts on the state of MMA and tease future discussions:

• Daniel Cormier:
  "I'll tell you the bad part is it's almost an addictive state..." (20:19)

• Ben Askren:
  "It's cool, right? But I don't know if that's what was intended to be." (28:25)

They conclude with mutual appreciation and encouragement for listeners to stay engaged with upcoming episodes.

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Notable Quotes

• Ben Askren (04:56):
  "They crashed my golf cart into the curb, broke the steering column within two hours."

• Daniel Cormier (19:18):
  "The flow state happens when every. All of your energy is focused on a singular moment in time and everything else disappears."

• Ben Askren (24:04):
  "Abstain from sex for like a month... Don't eat past like 2:00pm in the afternoon."

• Ben Askren (25:52):
  "Hano Moicano... he's been winning at an alarming rate. He says he'd be willing to fight Max Holloway for the BMF championship."

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Conclusion

In this episode of The Herd with Colin Cowherd, Daniel Cormier and Ben Askren offer an in-depth analysis of the current MMA landscape, highlighting the importance of fostering new talent, understanding the dynamics of champion longevity, and the psychological aspects that influence fighter performance. Their candid discussions, enriched with personal anecdotes and expert insights, provide listeners with a comprehensive overview of where the sport stands as it moves into 2025.

Transcript

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[Eric Zimmer]

Do you want a shortcut to the best version of you? Here it is. Feed the Good Wolf I'm Eric Zimmer, host of the one you feed. Every week I talk to brilliant minds and brave souls about the art of small, powerful choices. Our listeners say it all.

[Daniel Cormier]

This is a lifeline transformational. The best antidote to a bad mood I've ever heard.

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Join the pack and start feeding your best self. Listen to the one you feed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ben Askren]

The volume. All right guys, it's the winter time. You know, like it's kind of cold outside. But that don't stop da boy DC from getting out and about and enjoying all kinds of live events. And when I do enjoy live events, I use the gametime app to save money. All new customers push that code in there, DCTV to save $20 off your first purchase. So it doesn't matter what you're doing. You could be going to a concert, comedy show, ufc, NFL Postseason is about to start. Baseball season, basketball. The game time map has got you covered. I like to go on a date and then maybe go catch a comedy show after with a meal while saving money. Our friends at gametime got you covered. So again, sign up using my promo code, DCTV for any of your entertainment at the GameTime app and save $20 off of that first purchase. Come on, man, grab your lady or grab your man. Take him out on the date. Take him out a night on the town and use the Game Time app to do it. Let's go. All right, guys, welcome to a brand new episode of Fucking the Champ. I'm Daniel Cormier. That's Ben askren. It is December 30th. We only have two days left in 2024. Ben, can you believe how fast the year is going? How's the holidays, man?

[Daniel Cormier]

So fast. Holidays are great, you know, busy with our college kids coming home and doing some wrestling. We had some AWA stuff yesterday.

[Ben Askren]

What did you do at awa? You had a party?

[Daniel Cormier]

Well, no, this is our third year. Well, we did this. It's called the AWA Youth, and we just. It's kind of an inner squad. But because we can't get all of our kids on dual teams anymore because we have too many, we do essentially an inner squad duel. So as many kids, six to eight kids that they want sign up, and then we just build teams, and then we just do matches. We had six teams, and we just did, you know, four matches in the morning and had a good time.

[Ben Askren]

That's good. We had a Christmas party. Like, where is your. That is why you beat us all the time now. Because while you're wrestling duels, we're having a Christmas party. Well, we're all decorating cookies and stuff, but I like my kids to be kids. I don't want to be the coaches that are like you. I just run your kids.

[Daniel Cormier]

You got. Don't. You got the dog feed this weekend? It's not a big one.

[Ben Askren]

Yeah, we have the dog B. We also have those duels this week. And wrestling, like, I see Catholic prep. That's a lot of Izzy's kids. And we're wrestling at Utah team. Ben, your Christmas. Does your Christmas. Do you overspend for Christmas? You look like type of guy that just overspreads for Christmas. Like, what did you get your kids?

[Daniel Cormier]

No, no, my. I. My wife's in charge of it.

[Ben Askren]

But what did you guys give them?

[Daniel Cormier]

I mean. Yeah, I kind of looked at it, and actually there's still like, two gifts hiding in the back room. Because I'm like, that was. That was too much. You can't give me my stuff. So we gotta. We're gonna save these for some other time. But, you know, my daughters are getting older, so, like, a lot of clothes and stuff. Ozzy loves football, so all football stuff. He got a football jersey, and he got a few of these dummies to throw into.

[Ben Askren]

And so my kid get. My kids got E bikes. They wanted E bikes bad, so they got.

[Daniel Cormier]

Is that. That's where they don't pedal them and they go.

[Ben Askren]

They kind of pedal them, but they don't necessarily have to pedal them as much as before.

[Daniel Cormier]

Okay. Hey, wait. So how old is your son? Is. He's done?

[Ben Askren]

No, he's 13. He's 13. He. He has, like, a year and a half before high school. Before high school.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Ben Askren]

So it's gonna be a little bit still. Hey, but listen, Ben. So guess what happened to me on Christmas, bro? It's the crazy.

[Daniel Cormier]

What happened? You got Robbed.

[Ben Askren]

We'll put the video. Oh, my house in Louisiana did get broken into.

[Daniel Cormier]

Louisiana. Still.

[Ben Askren]

Yes, yes. So I have a house in Louisiana that got broken into.

[Daniel Cormier]

Oh, man.

[Ben Askren]

Because my sister and then happened to come out to California for Christmas. So I get back from the Reno Tournament of Champions. I walk into my house, and as I turn the curb, I go, well, Brian, how'd you beat me here? We were just on the phone. I go, cassandra, how'd you get here so fast to my house, bro? My whole family's here. Nobody told me. Planning it since September. I. It was the best surprise of all time, Ben. Not two hours in, my sister goes, oh, you live on a golf course? Do you have a golf cart? I go, yeah, I have a golf cart. We want to drive it. So they get in my golf cart, my sister and my niece. Then they leave. So they leave the golf cart in the driveway. My 17 year old nephew and the 12 year old jump in the golf cart. Next thing you know, I can't find these kids. They're in the neighborhood going crazy in the golf cart. Finally, they call me. They're stuck on the side of the road because they crashed my golf cart into the curb, broke the steering column. Not two hours, bro.

[Daniel Cormier]

Oh, my God, two hours.

[Ben Askren]

And they had already broken my golf cart. And then I come to my podcast studio this morning, and none of my wires are connected. I love my family, but I was so happy that they went back to Louisiana.

[Daniel Cormier]

But, hey, you need. You need some. You need some land. So I got 10 acres, and it's like, go nuts. Like, you ain't going to bother anyone else. You might break some of my stuff, but, you know, that's it. Like, you're not going to be in the neighborhood messing with. No one's going to call the cops. Just, like, kind of go do whatever you want. Makes it easy.

[Ben Askren]

All right, Ben. So, like, we could talk about stuff like this all week because it's been a while since I spoke to you, but obviously we do this podcast to talk mixed martial arts, so it feels like our off season. And I gotta be honest, like, I was super excited about it when I left UFC 310, but, bro, it kind of sucks. Like, it kind of sucks. Seriously, you don't think I like a.

[Daniel Cormier]

Nice little break this time for us? This. This time for rest is crazy. I don't know about California, but Wisconsin's got all their biggest internments. And we got the Midlands soldier salute. Yeah. Cody Merrill's wrestling Stephen Buchanan. The semifinals.

[Ben Askren]

Yeah.

[Daniel Cormier]

So that one. So Yeah, I feel like it's a nice little break, little focus on wrestling for us.

[Ben Askren]

Yeah. So I've been like, I've been wrestling coaching and everything, but when I watch mixed martial arts, it seems like the news kind of dies down and you're kind of searching for things to talk about, things to, like, look at. And everybody does a year in review.

[Daniel Cormier]

Right.

[Ben Askren]

We've done that last year. Our biggest moments, best moments. But there are things that are still happening a little bit. One thing that stood out to me the most was yesterday. Sean Brady was grappling. He won. And he called out Leon Edwards and said he wants to fight Leon Edwards in England. He wants to fight him. And he said this. He said, I want to go to London. I want to fight Leon in his backyard. On March 22 after he won at Fury. Professional grappling. He said, hopefully the UFC can make that happen, but we will see. So in that statement, Ben, it sounds like Sean Brady, who is ranked lower in the world rankings, but not very low, probably like five or six off the top of my head high. He's like five or six. Right. But to Leon Edwards, who's number one or two, it's kind of like, well, I've been the champion. I've only been fighting for belts. It took me 12 fights to get here. Why do I want to fight this young, up and coming guy? And the only guy that's beaten Shawn Brady is the now champion, Malal Muhammad. Is it Leon Edwards responsibility to go? Yes, I will fight this young man because he's willing to come to London. He's willing to fight me in my hometown, in my backyard, and he has earned a right to stand across from a guy like myself in the octagon.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah. I want to hear a funny story.

[Ben Askren]

Quick deli.

[Daniel Cormier]

I almost grappled Sean Brady.

[Ben Askren]

When did for this thing that just happened yesterday.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah, the fight pass guys were in town for the Mizzou. You and I and I, they were like, you grappling more? I'm like, no, I don't like the leg locks. He's like, my thing doesn't we do no leg locks in our thing. And I'm like, that sounds interesting. And, you know, he kind of like made me an offer to grapple Sean Brady. And I thought about a few days and sounded like fun. But then I was like, I don't actually do jiu jitsu anymore. Like, this is dumb. Why would I do this? And then I said, I appreciate it, but no, it would be so stupid.

[Ben Askren]

It don't matter. That you don't do it. You just like to compete.

[Daniel Cormier]

We've seen, yeah, maybe a wrestling match, who knows? But not Sean Brady is very tough because I actually watched a few films. This guy's pretty good. But I feel like in the UFC welterweight division, we have a lot of up and comers here. So we have two guys who are high in the rankings, Leon and Marty, who are old champions, but between Shavkot D. Madalena, Sean Brady, Machado, Gary, Joaquin Buckley, we got a lot of young guys there. Yeah, right. Who are trying to move their way up. So Leon's got to fight one of them. I don't. Is it Sean Brady? Maybe he's tough, right. But he. He's got to fight someone here, right?

[Ben Askren]

I believe so. I believe that he should fight one of these guys. I believe that. For far too long, we as a sport have almost gatekeeped the upper levels of the divisions. Dude, I don't think there's ever been a case more strong for that than at 155, when all those guys were just fighting each other. But then, like, none of the young guys could get into the mix. It was. It was Oliveira, it was Ferguson, Gaethje, Poirier. Gaethje. It was Poirier. And then Michael Chandler came into that mix. But then Islam, and those guys were kind of like on the outside looking in, and when they finally got an opportunity, they became the best in the world. Like, think about this, right? Armand got a chance, now he's fighting for the belt. Islam got a chance, he's now the champion. It was like, you don't know.

[Daniel Cormier]

Well, that's what happens. Time's undefeated.

[Ben Askren]

Time is undefeated. So you don't know what happens when those guys get their opportunity. Unfortunately, it seems hard to get that opportunity. So for me, I think Leon should fight him. Because one, this is one thing that could happen. If you go and beat the young up and coming guy, he may be one fight from earning another championship opportunity.

[Daniel Cormier]

Oh, yeah, he should be.

[Ben Askren]

If it's not Bal Muhammad as The champion.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yes, 100. 100%. And you know what? When I gave you that list. So Bal is not young either, right. So Bal's 36. So I want to say that's maybe even older than Leon potentially. But you have these kind of three older guys, Leon, Bal and Usman, who've been to the top of the division. You have this list of upand comers, and then below that list of up and comers, you have other, like, established people. Colby Gilbert, Stephen Thompson, etcetera. So you got. If you're Dana, you got to push hard to give those up and comers. And this is what, you know, kind of that I gave you five guys. Rachmanov, Maddalena, Brady, Buckley, Gary. You got. You got to give those guys a shot against some of these former champions and see if they can put a show on. If they can put a show on, then they're ready for that shot.

[Ben Askren]

Well, so you have Bilal Muhammad fighting Shavkat next.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yes.

[Ben Askren]

You have potentially Leon Edwards versus Sean Brady.

[Daniel Cormier]

That would be a great one.

[Ben Askren]

Okay, so say you have those two, then you could potentially go Ian Machado. Gary, who's coming off the loss to fight Kamaru Usman, who's also coming off of a loss. Now it all makes sense. Right now. You're starting to get.

[Daniel Cormier]

Well, what about Dea Mada? What's his. Where's he been hurt?

[Ben Askren]

He's hurt.

[Daniel Cormier]

He's.

[Ben Askren]

He's hurt. Jack Dell is very good, but he's hurt. He had a big opportunity on his hands, but then he got hurt.

[Daniel Cormier]

So he hasn't fought since March?

[Ben Askren]

Yes, because he got hurt and he. I think he was scheduled for something, but then it got canceled because he was hurt. But if you get all those guys, then we find out, because there are times where guys do get the chance and they get beat. Remember, Rafael F. Was like, this guy. Everybody thought he was the man, and he still can be. They put him in there with Justin Gaethje. Gaethje said, okay, I'll give you the shot, and Justin beat him. So, like, there have been many instances where the young guy isn't quite ready yet, but then it happens later. But I think you have to do it. And I think for Leon Edwards, I don't know if there's a. A better fight to show that you have made the improvements in the areas that you need to improve in order to fight Bilal Muhammad again.

[Daniel Cormier]

Because Sean Brad's gonna try to take you down.

[Ben Askren]

Yeah.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Ben Askren]

Yes. And if he defensive, if he's good defensively, then you might go, okay, maybe the fight with Bilal Muhammad might look a little different next time.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah, I mean, I think that's. I think you're right. And yeah, Leon, when you lose a title. So he hasn't had a fight since he lost the title. When you lose a title, I generally feel like it's one, maybe two fights away at. At worst. Right. Sometimes they give you an automatic rematch, but it's not very far away if you get back to the title. So, yes, I Think he should take it. He hasn't fought since July, so, you know, he does need to get back in there at some point. The other one. The other one's interesting in there. And maybe Leon would think this guy's easier. And I would say he's probably got more hype right now than Sha Brady would be walking Buckley. Walking Buckley is.

[Ben Askren]

He's. He's.

[Daniel Cormier]

You know, since he got in a fight with you, he's kind of. You know what's funny is he was kind of throwing things out there and a few things weren't sticking. A few things are silly, but sometimes when you throw things out there, you start figuring something out. So he's like kind of starting to figure out his personality a little bit and he's becoming more likable and he's winning fights also. So he's a guy who could be in the top division pretty quick as well.

[Ben Askren]

I think he might be the guy that gets Jack Della Madalina because I think he's.

[Daniel Cormier]

That'd be a good one, dude.

[Ben Askren]

He beat the. He beat the. Out of Kobe Covington, bro.

[Daniel Cormier]

That's probably why everyone loves you. He beat.

[Ben Askren]

Did you watch that fight? Did you get to watch that?

[Daniel Cormier]

No, I watch highlights. I watch highlights. It was late, bro.

[Ben Askren]

He got. Kobe got. I. I've never seen Kobe get beat that bad before, but yes. So Buckley's kind of found his groove, right? Because he did that Conor McGregor thing and it didn't work. But then I thought that the last call out, he did. Kamaru Usman was perfect. I thought that now, I thought that that was perfect, him calling out Kamaru Usman, perfect. But I thought that Wonderboy to Colby Covington to Kamaru Usman, if he can fight him, hell, he might be next. Joaquin Buckley might actually be next even before all these other guys. So I think the onus is on Leon Edwards to either fight Sean Brady or Leon Edwards should fight maybe Joaquin Buckley, because Joaquin Buckley has a ton of hype around him right now. He's got to be one of these up and comers to remind people that he's that guy. So they go, I want to see Leon Edwards fight for the belt again. Because right now, dude, it took him 11 fights to get a title fight. In the first place. In the first place, it was hard for him to get a championship opportunity. So I don't know that they'll be rushing to give him another one. He beats someone that's very, very dangerous. But those guys put in the work, right? Bilal won a whole Bunch of fights to get a title fight. Leon did, too. Usman did, too. So I kind of understand why they're not as open to giving those young guys opportunities.

[Daniel Cormier]

But now. So Joaquin has looked this up. He's won six in a row at welterweight since he got to welterweight. Luque, Thompson, Covington, all really good veterans. And, you know, this is fun because this is like, sometimes. I mean, you made the point about 155. Sometimes divisions get stale where the top is kind of stuck at the top. But now you have this point where there's going to kind of be like a turnover, all the urging to the top. And how much longer can we'll just say the. The trio of Usman and Leon and Bilal hang on to the top because they're all older. Yeah.

[Ben Askren]

Cool.

[Daniel Cormier]

Colt, 30. He's at nine or something.

[Ben Askren]

Yeah, but he was that guy. Now you see him on the decent, right? Like, his time. It seems like time has caught up to COVINGTON Now.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yes, 100%.

[Ben Askren]

What. When is that time for those guys, too?

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah. So that'll be a fun, fun flip for us to see happen over the next couple years, because it is boring when it gets stale up top.

[Ben Askren]

I swear to God, I felt like that is what this year represented to me. It felt like there was a lot of change over at the top of divisions in mma.

[Daniel Cormier]

Like, yeah.

[Ben Askren]

It kind of feels like. It kind of feels like, well, obviously, Max Holloway is done at 145. Right? He's up in 155 now for good with the way that Toporia beat Volkanovsky. They're rematching. If he loses again, it's like we're done with that old vogue holloway era at 145. Then you start looking at, like, the Kamaru, Usman and those guys at 170. How long can they knock those guys or keep them away? You know, the only person that's kind of stood the test of time is Jon Jones. Jon Jones has literally.

[Daniel Cormier]

Oh, but he, like, time warps because he only fights every three years, so it's like a time warp.

[Ben Askren]

He somehow managed to fight for 15 years, bro.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah, it.

[Ben Askren]

Be the champion the whole time. Like, that's crazy, dude.

[Daniel Cormier]

Well, Pereira, too, now is. He's been. He's been in title contention for two or three years. Or am I. Am I making this too long?

[Ben Askren]

No, no, no. He's been. Dude, he's only been fighting in the UFC for three and a half years.

[Daniel Cormier]

But when. When did he title? Because it was really fast.

[Ben Askren]

It was fast. He he fought like. He fought two fights, and then he got a title fight in New York. So he fought in New York the first year. By the next year in New York, he was fighting for the belt. So it only took him 12 months to get to Izzy because he made his debut and he beat that. That guy, Bruno Silva, and then he beat Izzy, and then Izzy beat him. Then he fought Yan. He's just very active, right. So he seems like he's ever present.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Ben Askren]

Hey, you know what Khil Roundtree said about that fight with Pereira?

[Daniel Cormier]

Because he said something about it was being. It was fun or.

[Ben Askren]

What did he say was that I had moments of joy.

[Daniel Cormier]

That's awesome. I think. I think. Well, I will break it down for you because I love. I love the sports psychology of it. Well, the flow state. The flow. You know what the flow state is? You heard that, right?

[Ben Askren]

I do know when it seems like.

[Daniel Cormier]

Everything'S working okay, when everything's working, but the flow state happens when every. All of your energy is focused on a singular moment in time and everything else disappears, right? So there's this really great book called the Rise of Superman I have somewhere, and it talks about extreme sports athletes in the flow state. And you know what sucks about them? I'll tell you the bad part is it's almost an addictive state, because when you get there as a. As an extreme sports athlete, it's when you're challenged, meet your skill level, right? So if the challenge is too big, then it's not good. If the challenge is too low, it's not good, right? So as these extreme sports athletes get better and better and better, the challenge has got to keep going up. So they keep. They're addicted to this limit.

[Ben Askren]

Yeah, they push a limit of what?

[Daniel Cormier]

They all die, bro. They all die. It sucks.

[Ben Askren]

They all kill themselves because.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yes.

[Ben Askren]

Hey, yo, I got in the flow state one time. I swear to God, it happened. It happened. And I didn't recognize it was happening. And then I realized, like, afterwards, I was like, oh, my God, Now I know that feeling, bro. I was fighting Dan Henderson. I was doing things, bro. I swear to God, I was doing things that I didn't even out. It was just. It was like going boom, boom. Yo, I wasn't even trying. Like, bro, me and Dan Henderson were fighting. We punch into the clinch. I hit him with a step around throw, a polish lateral drop. It was crazy, right? Who does?

[Daniel Cormier]

I remember that, bro.

[Ben Askren]

I hit a polish lateral drop. Then we're punching each other. I get on a high crotch, and then I flip him.

[Daniel Cormier]

You lift up? Yeah.

[Ben Askren]

Yes. Then he gets up and I foot sweep him from behind. It was like I was in a flow state, dude. I grabbed him by the back of the head and foot swept him, dude. It was like everything was working. Every transition, every move that I did, every punch I threw, landed. That was the only time, I think, that it was a complete flow inside the Octagon. Even a wrestling match, right? When you're wrestling, really, you're like, dude, I think that was the only time inside my entire UFC career that I was in such a flow where it felt like there was nothing he was going to be able to do, like there was no threat, bro. And I, I mean, have you ever got that? Like, have you ever felt.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah, I, I, I feel like I, I mean, in wrestling, I, I got there semi frequently. Fighting is, I think, was harder because you do the round breaks. So even if you're flowing a little bit, the round breaks, will you stop? And then you got to go sit down for a minute. And then you got start again. And. And it's kind of, like, hard to get ramped up. And then obviously, you know, you're thinking of, like, oh, am I up three rounds? Or, you know, is it one to one? Or, you know, so you think about all these exogenous things, which are not the fight. Whereas in a wrestling match, like, generally, the breaks are really tiny, you know, really short.

[Ben Askren]

Bottom man, top man, cover like that, that's pretty much. No, bro, I swear, I, I thought.

[Daniel Cormier]

That was cool by Roundtree. I thought that was really a cool statement. And, you know, sometimes guys don't like to acknowledge what the reality is. And it's like, yeah, you came up a little bit short, but you found that flow state. You were there. You were almost the best in the world.

[Ben Askren]

When you're getting beat that bad.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Ben Askren]

Can you truly. No, you can't, man. I actually think I'll be getting beat that bad and be in a state of flow where everything's clicking.

[Daniel Cormier]

Well, no, no, I mean, so he had, I know he had. He had success earlier in the fight, right? Yes, early in the fight. So maybe he's more referencing that potentially. But then I, I do think sometimes with certain fighters, you always talk about, like, they don't start fighting well till they get hit. I actually think when they get hit sometimes, like, it summons that, like, deeper. Not as logical reasoning, part of your brain. Right. Kind of that caveman shit comes out a little bit, and you're like, I just gotta fight for my life. And that, like, I just have to fight for my life right now. I think that actually snaps a lot of guys into the flow state. Right. Is like, I mean, think about if you were. I sometimes I say this to my kids. I said, you know, except when, when. Especially when they. They're whining, something's hard. I think about, Think about this shit. We're out on the planes in, you know, 646 A.D. and someone's trying to kill us. What do we do? Wine because we're tired. Wine because we're hungry. Are we going to fight for our freaking lives here?

[Ben Askren]

Yeah.

[Daniel Cormier]

You know, like. Yeah.

[Ben Askren]

Did you. I tried to recreate that. Like, I tried to recreate that caveman in me every fight.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Ben Askren]

I'm staying from sex for a while. Like a month.

[Daniel Cormier]

Are you kidding me? No, that's wrong. You're dumb.

[Ben Askren]

Listen. Abstain from sex for like a month and then don't eat. Like, literally eat at like. So main event usually walked at like 10:00 at night.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yep.

[Ben Askren]

Don't eat past like 2:00pm in the afternoon.

[Daniel Cormier]

I. I agree with that one.

[Ben Askren]

Starving. Like, literally just starving. Because when you're hungry, right. Your mind goes to a place like, if I had to go and kill something to eat right now, I would.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Ben Askren]

And obviously we're not at that level of hunger, but it's like, if I need to.

[Daniel Cormier]

But you can fake it a little bit.

[Ben Askren]

Yes. Right. You can put yourself almost in a caveman mindset to where you're like, taking all the pleasures of life that we as men love so much. Food, you know, women, those things that you, you take it away from yourself.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Ben Askren]

And then by the time you get in there with this dude, you're like, yo, you're the reason that I didn't get to do this. You're the reason that I'm hungry.

[Daniel Cormier]

Seriously. I. Well, I mean, I was. You know what? I was never the extreme. I was more just like, think of it like, well, if I don't try to hurt him, he's gonna hurt me. Like, that's, you know, like, you know, if we're out on the plains and, you know, you know, he's got something I want. If, you know, there's no law. I got to kill him to go get his stuff or he's going to kill me. That's kind of how I thought about in the oct. I was like. And it was actually till my. I was fighting Lyman. Good. Because everyone else before that, I thought they did. They had good records. But I think they were very good.

[Ben Askren]

They weren't very dangerous.

[Daniel Cormier]

And I looked at this guy, I'm like, oh, I got. I'm about to hurt this guy, but if I don't hurt him, he's going to try to hurt me. So let's go.

[Ben Askren]

You know, that threat level's got to be high, though. The threat level's high. You're, like, really locked in. You're, like, really, really locked in. Hey, Ben, before I let you go. Hey, Hano Moicano is hilarious. First off.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yep.

[Ben Askren]

We were in the octagon, me and him. This dude started talking about politics after he won the fight.

[Daniel Cormier]

I love him.

[Ben Askren]

Hey, yo. Then he said his dad, 60 years old, just had a baby, so he was going home to impregnate his wife. If his dad could do it, he's doing it. He goes, my dad is the ultimate man. He just had a baby. So I go home, I have baby right now. I saved the world with the cops. He just went crazy. He goes crazy. But here's the thing. He wins. And right now, he's winning at an alarming rate. This dude has won six in a row. He says that he'd be willing to fight Max holloway for the BMF championship. You into that? Moiconnell Holloway.

[Daniel Cormier]

So McCann is also a Bitcoiner, just FYI.

[Ben Askren]

Oh, yeah, he is a bitcoin guy. Yeah, he is. Big time bitcoin guy.

[Daniel Cormier]

Big time.

[Ben Askren]

Spoke about.

[Daniel Cormier]

So I don't know if I'm into my kind of hallway, but I am very into I will fight anybody. I mean, that is how guys get a lot of. You know, Pereira did the same thing. Kevin Holland got popular doing that. That's kind of how you get popular. You don't get popular trying to be cute and pick your way to the top. You get popular by saying, I will show up and fight anyone and then actually doing it. So I love what he's doing. I don't know if they're getting Holloway next. I mean, he's got. Oh, my God. Who's he got? He's got somewhere in la, but no in la. Who's he fighting? Dariush.

[Ben Askren]

Mo's fighting Dariush?

[Daniel Cormier]

I believe Dariush. Yes. And so if he wins that one, he's going to have another opportunity on the microphone, and we know he's outstanding on the microphone, so I'm sure he's going to make an outstanding call out. And, you know, seven wins in a row in the lightweight division is going to get you someone really, really good, you know, Here.

[Ben Askren]

Here's the Thing, I believe that this dude really is good. I believe that because of how important the BMF title now seems to be. He's almost looking at the BMF championship and almost ignoring the fact that he's so close to maybe fighting for a championship. That's what, that's the only scare for me with the BMF championship because I've heard now on many occasions people go, I'd like to fight for the BMF title. It's like, it's cool, right? But I don't know if that's what it was intended to be. But when you put world class fighters in fighting for the BMF title, like Justin Gaethje and Max Holloway, now you run into this issue a little bit where we got a guy Moccano going, I got a Dariush fight which could potentially propel me into a championship opportunity. But I kind of want to fight Max Holloway for the championship at 10.

[Daniel Cormier]

So I don't think he's that close to a title.

[Ben Askren]

I think he's probably six in a row, bro. But look at the top.

[Daniel Cormier]

I know. I got you Armand Olivera gaii Porier, hallway hooker, all older.

[Ben Askren]

You're.

[Daniel Cormier]

You're right. So you're right on that note. But I think, I mean, kind of just like we talked about with the welterweight, I think him, if he takes out Dariush and he takes out one of these other guys who's been there forever and has a huge name, that's great. And we, you know, the other thing we know is Moicano will fight anyone and he likes to fight frequently, which is great. And Islam doesn't like to fight all that frequently.

[Ben Askren]

He does. Islam likes to fight. Just. It's hard to fight.

[Daniel Cormier]

How many times he fought in the last year? Let me look at this.

[Ben Askren]

3.

[Daniel Cormier]

3? Really? Islam fought 3 times in a year?

[Ben Askren]

In the last 12. 12 months, Islam fought 3 times. He fought Abu Dhabi.

[Daniel Cormier]

No, he didn't. It was February 2023, October 2023, June 2021. And then he's obviously fighting coming up, so It'll be like no.

[Ben Askren]

24. So February 23rd, October 23rd, June 24th, that's it.

[Daniel Cormier]

And now, now January of 25.

[Ben Askren]

So last 18 months.

[Daniel Cormier]

That's not bad. Not bad.

[Ben Askren]

No, it's not that bad. I mean, you could fight like, you know, Jon Jones. Yeah, he wants every few years, you know, Jon Jones is the man, bro. I ain't gonna lie. He beat the out of Ste. I didn't expect that.

[Daniel Cormier]

Really? You're a lying. You expected?

[Ben Askren]

No, I kind of thought Steve would fight him better. Steve looks slow though, man. He looks so slow cuz he didn't.

[Daniel Cormier]

Fight in four years and he's 43 years old. Hello? No, I want Tom Aspinall. Damn it.

[Ben Askren]

You're so stupid. All right, all right. Ben, thank you again, man, for another episode of this gym. Guys, that's our last episode of 2024 25. We have many more episodes. Ben, don't leave yet. Luis needs you for one second. Until next time, guys. Like subscribe and tell your friends about my YouTube channel. And always tap into funk in the champ. I'm Daniel Cormier. That's been Askren Peace.

[Eric Zimmer]

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[Daniel Cormier]

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[Eric Zimmer]

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