Daniel Cormier TV - Daniel Cormier & Ben Askren on Conor McGregor at White House, Jon Jones NOT READY, Pereira-Ankalaev

Summary

The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Episode Summary

Episode Title: Daniel Cormier TV - Daniel Cormier & Ben Askren on Conor McGregor at White House, Jon Jones NOT READY, Pereira-Ankalaev
Release Date: March 19, 2025
Hosts: Daniel Cormier & Ben Askren
Produced by: iHeartPodcasts and The Volume

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1. Catching Up and Show Evolution [02:22 - 04:09]

Daniel Cormier (D.C.) and Ben Askren open the episode by reflecting on the longevity and evolution of their show, "Funk in the Champ," which they launched on December 12, 2022. They discuss the challenges of maintaining consistency, including initial hurdles like proving the concept with five pilot episodes. Ben reminisces, stating, “We've done two years of Punk in the Champ. That's crazy.”

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2. Conor McGregor's Possible Retirement and Political Aspirations [04:04 - 07:55]

The conversation shifts to Conor McGregor's recent appearance at the White House, leading to speculation about his future in MMA and a potential political career.

• Ben Askren: "He's gonna be the prime minister of Ireland next time around. Bank on it." [06:35]
• Daniel Cormier: Expresses a mix of disbelief and sadness over McGregor's transition, saying, "Isn't that sad that a guy that came on and was a lightning rod... is ending that way?" [07:08]

They analyze McGregor's impact on MMA, noting his ability to draw massive attention, and ponder whether his exit from fighting is a loss for the sport.

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3. UFC's Business Model: Pay-Per-View vs. Broad Streaming Platforms [13:47 - 25:04]

D.C. and Askren delve into the UFC's evolving business strategies, especially concerning pay-per-view (PPV) models and potential shifts to streaming platforms like Netflix.

• Daniel Cormier: Highlights the importance of big stars in driving PPV sales, reminiscing, "When the UFC sold... it's important to have your biggest stars available in those contract years." [14:00]
• Ben Askren: Critiques Dana White's approach to managing fighter leverage, stating, "Dana's plan forever has been to make the UFC this ubiquitous... which is one of the reasons that the UFC is so profitable for them and the owners." [16:19]

They debate the sustainability of the UFC's current model without relying heavily on marquee names like Conor McGregor, considering the organization's profitability versus fighter satisfaction.

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4. Jon Jones' Fight Negotiations and UFC Star Leverage [17:00 - 25:39]

A significant portion of the discussion centers on Jon Jones' negotiations for an upcoming fight against Tom Aspinall.

• Daniel Cormier: Questions the UFC's commitment to facilitating major fights, asking, "How important is it now that the UFC makes this fight happen?" [17:15]
• Ben Askren: Suggests that Dana White may downplay the importance of such negotiations to maintain control, "This is leverage. Jon Jones is saying, I know I'm the biggest star in the UFC right now." [17:59]
• Daniel Cormier: Emphasizes his own experience with UFC negotiations, reflecting, "Those guys do deserve their money... Jon Jones said publicly it would take $30 million." [22:30]

They scrutinize the balance of power between fighters and the UFC, especially regarding contract negotiations and the willingness of stars like Jon Jones to leverage their status for better terms.

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5. Alex Pereira's Weight Class and Future in MMA [28:50 - 30:33]

The hosts discuss Alex Pereira's optimal weight class, debating whether he should stay at middleweight or move up to heavyweight.

• Daniel Cormier: Expresses skepticism about Pereira's performance at higher weight classes, stating, "I feel like we've kind of maxed out the weight at which he can go up because his power is so great." [29:10]
• Ben Askren: Agrees slightly but acknowledges Pereira's impressive performance, "He's too slim." [29:33]

They conclude that while Pereira has exceptional power, his physique might limit his effectiveness if he moves up, suggesting that remaining at middleweight could be more beneficial for his career.

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6. NCAA Wrestling Tournament Recap [30:30 - 37:28]

Transitioning to collegiate wrestling, Cormier and Askren provide a detailed analysis of the recent NCAA wrestling tournament.

• Daniel Cormier: Shares personal anecdotes about supporting Oklahoma State and their journey through the tournament, mentioning pivotal moments like, "We won the Big 12 championship and... make people ignore how horrendous a final round Oklahoma State had." [31:08]
• Ben Askren: Praises individual wrestlers such as Gable Steveson, stating, "He's the best, bro. Yeah, he's the best." [34:36]

They highlight standout performances, potential future stars, and the overall competitiveness of the tournament, expressing excitement over the rising talent in collegiate wrestling.

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7. Media Representation and Public Perception [30:30 - 34:10]

The duo touches on how media outlets like ESPN handle their commentary and the challenges of public perception.

• Daniel Cormier: Criticizes ESPN for selectively editing their discussions, leading to misinterpretations, "They take the words and not the actual video of you explaining what you're saying... the fan generally will go, God, Ben Askren really does suck." [30:30]

They express frustration over media portrayal, emphasizing the importance of context in public discourse about their viewpoints.

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8. Closing Remarks and Final Thoughts [37:17 - 37:28]

D.C. and Askren wrap up the episode with a brief reflection on their passion for wrestling and their commitment to discussing it despite external pressures.

• Daniel Cormier: Affirms his dedication, "I love wrestling, dude. It's crazy." [36:39]
• Ben Askren: Teases future collaborations, "Maybe I'll come Saturday night." [37:17]

They encourage listeners to engage with wrestling content and stay tuned for future episodes of "Funk in the Champ."

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Ben Askren: "He's gonna be the prime minister of Ireland next time around. Bank on it." [06:35]
• Daniel Cormier: "Isn't that sad that a guy that came on and was a lightning rod... is ending that way?" [07:08]
• Daniel Cormier: "When the UFC sold... it's important to have your biggest stars available in those contract years." [14:00]
• Ben Askren: "Dana's plan forever has been to make the UFC this ubiquitous... which is one of the reasons that the UFC is so profitable for them and the owners." [16:19]
• Daniel Cormier: "I feel like we've kind of maxed out the weight at which he can go up because his power is so great." [29:10]
• Daniel Cormier: "They take the words and not the actual video of you explaining what you're saying... the fan generally will go, God, Ben Askren really does suck." [30:30]
• Ben Askren: "He's the best, bro. Yeah, he's the best." [34:36]
• Daniel Cormier: "I love wrestling, dude. It's crazy." [36:39]

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This episode of "The Herd with Colin Cowherd" offers an in-depth discussion on the current state and future of MMA stars like Conor McGregor and Jon Jones, the business strategies of the UFC, and a comprehensive recap of the NCAA wrestling tournament. Hosts Daniel Cormier and Ben Askren provide insightful analysis, personal anecdotes, and their expert opinions on the evolving landscape of mixed martial arts and collegiate wrestling.

Transcript

[Ben Askren]

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[Daniel Cormier]

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[Ben Askren]

I feel like it's been more than the normal two weeks. I could look back maybe three weeks or four weeks, but it's all good. It's wrestling season. We're really busy. I get it.

[Daniel Cormier]

I thought. I thought Luis canceled us.

[Ben Askren]

I almost. You know what? I almost texted you about doing just like an NCAA preview show just because, you know, it'd be fun and, you know, we like talking about wrestling.

[Daniel Cormier]

We should have done that. That's something we should have done.

[Ben Askren]

Yeah.

[Daniel Cormier]

Hey, I thought. I thought. I actually thought Louise canceled us. I thought he got a call from the Higher ups. It was like, the jam's over.

[Ben Askren]

No, no, no. Cancel. They can't do that anymore. We talked about this on the last show.

[Daniel Cormier]

Hey, do you remember? Do you. Do you remember we started this a while ago, dude. We started this show.

[Ben Askren]

Yeah.

[Daniel Cormier]

I mean, 2023. Yeah. It's been over a year and a half. We started doing the gym, and then do you know that they made us do a proof of concept? Do you remember that old deal?

[Ben Askren]

I do remember that. Well, you had. I remember the first time I came on. You want to do something called, like, three rounds or something?

[Daniel Cormier]

I still do that. I do that still. It does well, still. Well, we would have went three rounds arguing, going back and forth. I do that myself. I need to get back to doing that. That takes some time.

[Ben Askren]

Right.

[Daniel Cormier]

You got to write scripts and all this other stuff. But for Funky and the Champ, we had to do a proof of concept. They made us do five shows to see if it worked before they would start to pay you and everything. Do you remember that?

[Ben Askren]

You don't remember our first show, Lisa saying, was December 12, 2022. That's wild, huh?

[Daniel Cormier]

That's crazy. We've done two years of punk in the Champ. That's crazy.

[Ben Askren]

Crazy.

[Daniel Cormier]

And also, it's been fun, but it's not hard to do a show whenever stuff like this happens.

[Ben Askren]

Yes, bro.

[Daniel Cormier]

Connor is a politician dog.

[Ben Askren]

Ah, too funny. I would. And I want. You know, I want to pat myself on the back. Since our first show, probably December 12, 2022, I've been saying, the dude ain't gonna fight again. I've been saying it for a really long time. I think it's more likely now than ever. He's in the White House. Being a politician, I liked when he juiced up Trump. He's like, man, I can't do an Irish accent, so I'm not even gonna try. But he's like, I like your work ethic. I'm inspired by your work ethic. Like, he was juicing Trump up. It was awesome.

[Daniel Cormier]

You know what's the craziest thing about it? You know what's the crazy thing about it?

[Ben Askren]

What's that?

[Daniel Cormier]

You watched it. Like, you actually watched it. What are you doing?

[Ben Askren]

No, I watched the highlights on Twitter. You know that. That's what I did, watching it. Oh, you don't listen. You don't think that what I said was funny? Like, he was juicing Trump up. He's like, very funny. But I'm saying, like, I'm inspired.

[Daniel Cormier]

Why are you watching Conor McGregor's press conference. Why are you watching it?

[Ben Askren]

No, it was him and Trump, not the press conference. Him and Trump. It was great. Oh, he was inspired. He was inspired by Trump's work ethic, bro.

[Daniel Cormier]

So I saw. I saw. I saw Conor McGregor his picture, and I was like, wait, where's he at? So then I scroll down and I see that he was at the White House. No, I said, this has to be some kind of joke, right? Because it looked like he was holding a press conference at the White House.

[Ben Askren]

He did that, too. Yes, I believe.

[Daniel Cormier]

And I just was like. First I was like, oh, my God, why is he at the White House? Like, what's going on here? And then I started to think, oh, my God. Ben and I are doing our show tomorrow. He's going to pat himself on the back. Because now I think Ben. I think Ben.

[Ben Askren]

Yes.

[Daniel Cormier]

I'm ready to admit I think it's over, bro. I think. I think it's over.

[Ben Askren]

It's a hell of a redemption story because Conor, you remember Connor was. He was the man of the Irish people. Like, do you remember some of those early fights? How many, like, the whole damn country would come to Vegas for when Conor would fight? It was insane. And then kind of like people kind of got sick of his act. And, you know, he's always just up to shenanigans with the old guy.

[Daniel Cormier]

Remember he played the old guy, he.

[Ben Askren]

Punched the old guy, that type of stuff. But now he's going to be a hero of the Irish people because, you know, he's. He's. He's a. Going to be a populist leader for the country of Ireland. It seems like that dude's getting elected president next.

[Daniel Cormier]

Go around, future.

[Ben Askren]

Yes. He's gonna be the. Is it a president? Prime minister. I don't know what they have over there. That man's gonna be the prime minister of Ireland next time around. Bank on it.

[Daniel Cormier]

No, you're crazy. But like, it. I think I'm ready, Ben. I think I'm ready to admit he's done, bro. It's like he made. He made Michael Chandler. He made Michael Chandler wait all that time. Never fought him. Charles Oliveira seems or was saying he rather fight Conor McGregor than even fight for the championship.

[Ben Askren]

Yeah.

[Daniel Cormier]

Charles Oliveira now openly goes. I think it's over. But it feels like everybody is kind of coming over to the side of. I think Conor McGregor's done. But when you see that man and we joke about it, right? We joke about Conor McGregor's done kind of discussions. But is it sad that a Guy that came on and he was a lightning rod, and he brought so many eyes to the sport of mixed martial arts. Is it kind of sad that it ends that way? I get it. He's at the White House, and he might have some big things. I can't, dude, I'm not buying into the fact that Connor's going to be a politician. Forget that I'm not Ireland. I'm not doing that. I'm just not doing that. But isn't that sad that, like, it ended the way it did?

[Ben Askren]

Yeah, I'll say yes and no. You know, who knows? Maybe he turns a corner. Unless he's been doing some shenanigans, but maybe he turns a corner and becomes a great leader of Ireland. That could be a great second act for him. You. There's been other fighters or sports people who have become great business people. But, yeah, you know, I was talking to a younger fighter the other day about how. How fast it goes. And, I mean, you're kind of crazy because you didn't start till you're 31 or something, which is totally wild. But it is, like, your prime for most people is say, like, 30 to 35. And for a while, you feel like, I got forever. I got forever. I don't need to rush these fights. And then, you know, for me, it's like, man, I only fought 21 times. Like, yeah, I wish I would have fought more. I wish I would have more active. And, you know, I never turned down fights. It wasn't really my choice that I wasn't super active whether Bellator won championship. But it does. It goes by really fast. And so, yeah, with Conor, he came, you know, so fast and so strong, and then it was just like layoff after layoff after layoff. And now he's like, 36 maybe, or something.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah, he's getting older, but even at that point, he could still fight. Probably you can't fight the small guys. But for me, it's kind of sad because it is, man. It's like when a guy comes and he's that successful and he's that good, you hope that the last time you see him in the Octagon is him fighting. Even. Even if, bro, it's him losing, you don't want the last memory of him. And the Octagon is him sitting on the ground with a broken leg, yelling at Dustin Poirier's wife.

[Ben Askren]

That was preposterous.

[Daniel Cormier]

Was that not. It was the craziest vision I've ever seen. Right. Because it was almost like it felt like, when he got here, everything he did was fresh and new, and it felt genuine. And then he went to nice Connor when him and Dustin fought in Abu Dhabi. That was more preposterous than him. Nice Connor was more preposterous than him doing what he did after the fight with Dustin the second time because he was holding Dustin's liquor. They were hugging each other. It was the most odd thing I'd ever seen because that's not what we had to come to expect from Conor McGregor. He gets beat by Dustin Poirier, then he goes all the way back to the other guy, but even more to the right. He was more like. He was more loud. He was more obnoxious. He was nasty. Talking about Dustin's wife and all these things, he was more nasty. So then even that felt forced. And then when he broke his leg, he was sitting on the ground yelling and screaming. It was almost like he was a rich guy that didn't get his way and there was nothing he could do about it, and he was acting out because of it. That's like a sad visual for me after all that he became to the sport of mixed martial arts.

[Ben Askren]

Yeah, I. I mean, that. That was a sad ending. It'll be. It would have been nice to see him get back in there and do something better.

[Daniel Cormier]

But.

[Ben Askren]

Yeah, so he fought. Then I looked up he fought three times in 2015, and then three times in 2016. Right. So that. With. With the culmination being Eddie Alvarez fighting Madison Square Garden, winning a second title. But then it's been eight and a half years. How many times has he fought in the last eight and a half years after the. Eddie Alvarez.

[Daniel Cormier]

Okay, so I'll tell you. He fought Khabib. Dustin Poirier. Dustin Poirier. Three times.

[Ben Askren]

No, you forgot one.

[Daniel Cormier]

Oh, Cowboy Cerrone.

[Ben Askren]

Cowboy Cerrone. Four times. Four times. Eight and a half years. It's not very active. Too many layoffs.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah, the layoffs and the injuries. And just like that, life seemed to have got him, like, yes, bro. It's crazy because I'm telling you, dude, like, there was nothing like Conor McGregor. And even today, I didn't realize he was only 36. I'm taking it back. I'm taking it back.

[Ben Askren]

No, you can't.

[Daniel Cormier]

I didn't realize. No, I didn't realize he was only 36.

[Ben Askren]

Going to be 37 in July. That ain't.

[Daniel Cormier]

I didn't realize he was only 36. I thought he was older.

[Ben Askren]

That's not young, Daniel. You're a heavyweight, so you have different ear years up there.

[Daniel Cormier]

He's 36. I think he's fighting again.

[Ben Askren]

I don't think so.

[Daniel Cormier]

I think he and.

[Ben Askren]

And I be like William Wallace leading William Wallace. He's Scottish, though, not Irish. Right?

[Daniel Cormier]

I'm twisted. I'm twisted. No, I don't know who William.

[Ben Askren]

Oh, my goodness. You got to watch some Braveheart.

[Daniel Cormier]

I don't know what that is. You. Braveheart. The movie.

[Ben Askren]

The movie Braveheart.

[Daniel Cormier]

I've never seen Braveheart.

[Ben Askren]

Are you kidding me right now?

[Daniel Cormier]

I swear to God, I've never seen.

[Ben Askren]

Oh, my goodness. You got to go watch the movie. It's. I believe he's actually Scottish.

[Daniel Cormier]

Okay, so I'm gonna ask you a question. I'm gonna ask you a question. Have you ever seen Minister Society?

[Ben Askren]

I have, but it's.

[Daniel Cormier]

No, you haven't.

[Ben Askren]

Yes, Tucker. It's Chris Tucker. Correct. Am I right? Chris Tucker.

[Daniel Cormier]

That's Friday, dude. See, that's how I know. That's how I know.

[Ben Askren]

No, it's Chris Tucker. I'm looking it up. I was like 16, Daniel, 25 years ago.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah. When did Braveheart come out? When did Braveheart come out?

[Ben Askren]

Yeah, but you're old and stuff.

[Daniel Cormier]

But it doesn't matter.

[Ben Askren]

It's like, that's the society. Are you sure it's not Chris Tucker?

[Daniel Cormier]

No, it's not Chris Tucker. Oh, yeah, it's Ice Cube. You've never seen. No, it's not Ice Cube.

[Ben Askren]

Oh, oh, who's busting now? Ice Cube was in Friday.

[Daniel Cormier]

Also is.

[Ben Askren]

It's the same. I'm looking at right now. I don't really know these.

[Daniel Cormier]

Samuel Jackson. It's. It's with. Yes, it's with Cuba Gooding Jr. Sorry. Hey, see, you can't ask me. Like, everybody's seen. When I grew up, where I grew up, we watch. But it's a society. You didn't. So stop acting, dude. Like, we all see or had the same experiences growing up.

[Ben Askren]

Like, he was Scottish. I looked it up. Scottish warrior. But he.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah, I don't know. I just haven't seen Braveheart. But don't act surprised that I have.

[Ben Askren]

That's what Conor's gonna do right now.

[Daniel Cormier]

You're so crazy. Hey, Ben, I have this next topic I want to talk to you about. This is very important. Like, we're hitting. Like, it's been so long. We're talking about topics that we talked about for a really long time.

[Ben Askren]

Yes.

[Daniel Cormier]

But I want to tie this to this one. So did you see last week when ESPN the pay per view thing was broken oh, man.

[Ben Askren]

Hell, yeah.

[Daniel Cormier]

That was bad. And I'm an ESPN guy. That was really, really bad to not be able to do pay per views, especially in the year where they're redoing the television rights. Right. So everybody's, like, assuming that the UFC is going to Netflix and all this other stuff. My question to you is this, though. When the UFC sold, I think it was 2016 or 15. It was the same year that and the ESPN deal started to come about. I think it started in 19, but when the UFC sold, it was in 2016, bro. It's important to have your biggest stars available in those contract years. Right. Because then it makes people go, I want to buy this for a massive number, because I've got to have these guys. In 2016, when the UFC sold, UFC 200 was there. I fought UFC. I fought in 2016 at UFC 200. Brock Lesnar fought. Conor McGregor. Fought three times. It was a year where the UFC. Probably Ronda Rousey. No, she was, I think she was still there. I think she fought Amanda Nunes after Amanda Nunes became the champion or had beaten Misha Tate.

[Ben Askren]

No, I think, man, we want to get it. I'm going to look it up for it. But now that I want to get a business talk, but I actually think this is a fascinating topic, is I feel like ufc, and there's been rumors that they're not even gonna do pay per views anymore, which would be crazy. Which would be crazy because it's been such a staple, and for a while, it was such a. Like, this is what you're buying. If you're buying ufc, you're buying these.

[Daniel Cormier]

This is what you wanted as a fighter.

[Ben Askren]

Yes. Yeah. You wanted the big pay per view points.

[Daniel Cormier]

And yo, Rondo was actually in 2016, too, so. So in that year, you had everybody, and Jon Jones and I were supposed to headline UFC 200. You had all these great fighters, so it was something you had to have. Now, it doesn't seem like there are many of those people that you have to have, yet the UFC is as successful as it's ever been in the history of the ufc.

[Ben Askren]

Well, I, I would argue that was kind of Dana's plan, and it's kind of one. I, I, I don't, I don't really like. I don't think it's positive for fighters, but, you know, Dana's plan forever has been to make the, the UFC this, like, ubiquitous. It is bigger.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah. No matter.

[Ben Askren]

Yeah. When you turn on the ufc, you're gonna see a couple good fights and There's a bottom where at least this many people are fight fans, and kind of regardless of who's fighting, they're going to tune in and watch. You don't need these big names every weekend because, you know, one of the things Dana hated the most and he fought against, and this is. I. I can't only. I can only imagine how many meetings him and Conor have that were contentious. But when stars get big enough, they get leverage, and they say, well, no, I want this or I want that. And we see it in boxing where these guys are making crazy money.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yep.

[Ben Askren]

And Dana never really allowed that to happen in the ufc. It's one of the reasons that the UFC is so profitable for them and the owners. But I would. I would argue, and I think you know pretty correctly, that it is negative to the fighters.

[Daniel Cormier]

Okay. Like I was saying, though, this is like. This is talking, like, television rights and. And making the product valuable with pereira losing. Right. Who's the biggest star in the person that you think drives pay per view for the UFC?

[Ben Askren]

But I would argue the UFC's past that. I would argue that the UFC is going to put on 40 shows a year.

[Daniel Cormier]

There's a person that still drives pay per view.

[Ben Askren]

Okay, let me. So, heavyweight. Oh, I know. We're talking about Jon Jones.

[Daniel Cormier]

Exactly. So how important is it now? Right. How important is it now? Because the rumor was Jon Jones was going to fight Tom Aspinall in July at International Fight Week. The big blowout that will sell him boatload of pay per view as the deal starts to get to the end of the year.

[Ben Askren]

Yeah.

[Daniel Cormier]

Jon Jones just said three minutes ago that the window for fighting in July against Tom Aspinall may be passing because he feels he needs six months. Well, you know what?

[Ben Askren]

This is. This is exactly what we just talked about. What a leverage. This is leverage. Jon Jones is saying, I know I'm the biggest star in the UFC right now. I know this is the biggest fight. Not. All right, sometimes the biggest fight is not the biggest star, but in this case, it's probably the same biggest fight.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yep.

[Ben Askren]

The fight that we want to see the most, the only one that would be second is. Would be to Puri or Makachev. That's the only other one that is right in the same level, in my opinion. And so Jon Jones is saying, well, I want six months, but if you're gonna. If you're gonna make it four months, then I'm gonna need a little more money.

[Daniel Cormier]

He said, what? But do you think. How important is it, though, that the UFC makes this fight happen.

[Ben Askren]

Now, I. Well, I think this is what Dana's been fighting against. I don't. I actually don't think it's that important. And I think, really, I think Dana has made a point of. I mean, this has been the last 15 years of trying to almost, like, quell the stars, trying to not let the stars get too big. And, like, Conor got too big.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah, but see, I got to disagree a little bit.

[Ben Askren]

Why is that?

[Daniel Cormier]

Because I feel that they did everything to try to push you into the mainstream, to make you a star. That's why I was able to do the things that I did, because they continuously pushed me in front of people to make me a star, Ben. And that's not me going, well, I'm a UFC guy. I love ufc. I was the champion for a long time, so I know what they did for me as a champion to try and make sure that I was recognizable. Dude, I went. I swear to God.

[Ben Askren]

How many times did you put Dana over the barrel, though, and say, you want. You know. Right? Because I think there's different. Like, I know you.

[Daniel Cormier]

The same day you and I went into a deal to make a deal, the same day I want X, Y, and Z. And they said, no. We talked about this where he said.

[Ben Askren]

Yeah, I know, but we think of, like, a. So on the other side of this, you know, you have a Francis in Ghana, which had a very ugly dispute. You had Conor McGregor, you've had the Diaz brothers. You know, you've had many people. If I thought about it hard, I'd probably think of another three or four more.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Ben Askren]

Especially earlier, like, yeah, Randy Couture was a huge one really early on. Tito Ortiz was a big one. And so you had these stars that were constantly just doing this with Dana because Dana didn't want them to have too much leverage and get too big of stars. Right. And so he probably knew you. He. I'm gonna know if you're going to take this as a compliment or a dig. It is meant as a compliment. You are smart, you are intelligent. You probably knew just how to push just enough to get mostly what you wanted but not be a total, you know.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah, yeah, I get it. I get it, Ben.

[Ben Askren]

But again, some of these guys are unreasonable. They're saying, Dana's thinking in his head, okay, they're getting paid 5 million. Dana's thinking, okay, he's worth. He's probably really worth 11 million. I'm just throwing numbers out here. And the guy comes back and says, I want 25. And he's like, oh, this is fucking ridiculous.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yes, yes, yes.

[Ben Askren]

You know, I get it. Daniel Price said, I want nine. And he probably said, okay, well, I'm. He's worth 11. He asked for nine. Sure. Great. Deal. Let's do it.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yes. Yes.

[Ben Askren]

Yeah.

[Daniel Cormier]

And that's. But that's how negotiations go. Anytime you have a successful negotiation, both sides feel a little bit bad about the negotiation.

[Ben Askren]

Nobody a little bit good, too.

[Daniel Cormier]

You feel good about it, but you're like, I feel like I left something on the table.

[Ben Askren]

Yes.

[Daniel Cormier]

And the company feels like we paid a little bit too much. That's what a great negotiation feels like. But at the end of the day, you go, well, I'm still pretty happy where I. Where I settled at, even though it wasn't exactly what I wanted. But, bro, if Jon Jones.

[Ben Askren]

Did you take that as a compliment or an insult that I said you were smart and reasonable and not like.

[Daniel Cormier]

Here'S the deal, though. We lived in a world where we wrestled for $3,000 to win a tournament. So it's like, sometimes, yes, less than that. If you didn't win the freaking tournament, you win the hardest tournament of the summer. Yeah, the US Open was three grand, bro. When we were wrestling and everybody loves to get $3,000, everybody wrestled. And everybody wrestled. It wasn't the US Open of today. It was like, yeah, number one to 10 was in that bracket.

[Ben Askren]

Yeah.

[Daniel Cormier]

So, yes, I could always call back to those $3,000. If somebody's offering me $3 million, I'm like, well, I could go back to making three grand wrestle or coach wrestling and make $250,000 a year if I'm lucky and feel happy about it. So, yes, I. I had those experiences to call back on to make sure I stayed reasonable. But at the end of the day, those guys do deserve their money, and I do believe that because of the work that the UFC does, they are in a position to make that money. Granted, the fighting skill needs to be there. You got to be the champion, or you have no leverage. But once you get there, the work that's put in allows you to go, I need seven figures now. I don't need that. But again, Jon Jones said publicly it would take $30 million. Right now, he's saying, money talks, but time, I need time.

[Ben Askren]

I don't see that as. I don't see. To me, I look at that, and I say, john doesn't really need that much time. John's asking for more money. He's saying, if you want to rush me, he said, I Prefer six months. I would prefer.

[Daniel Cormier]

No, no, no. John literally said, I'll read it to you.

[Ben Askren]

Read. Read it to me exactly.

[Daniel Cormier]

I'll read it to you exactly. It said Jon Jones wants six months to prepare for Tom Aspinall fight. Once it's locked in, money talks. But it feels like if summer is the goal is starting to slip away a bit. Money's good. Like, even if you bring me the money, the timing is what I need to fight this guy. Why do you think that he's just kind of steering into this whole he just doesn't want to fight Tom Aspinall thing? Because Tom Aspinall was celebrating after Pereira loss because he felt like Jon Jones could not use Pereira anymore as a crutch to try to make that fight.

[Ben Askren]

To Tom Aspinall 100%.

[Daniel Cormier]

What'd you say?

[Ben Askren]

That was very helpful to Tom Aspinall. I mean, there's nothing else obvious. Like now, now it's Jones versus Aspinall. There's no other option. So yes, that was very, you know, helpful to him. I still think, I still see it that way is like, I mean, listen, you've done this, you've done something with other people where you said, listen, here's what I want and if you want me to do something that's a little more inconvenient for myself, then I want another 25% or I want another 30%. Like if you want me to inconvenience myself and fight in three and a half months instead of six, then you're going to have to make it worth my time. But there's, there is a number that's worth my time.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah. What do you think that number is for Jones?

[Ben Askren]

I mean, I don't know what his actual paycheck is, but I would say, you know, maybe he's asking for a 20, 30, 40% bump, something like that.

[Daniel Cormier]

Do you think that Jon Jones is worth making paying $15 million?

[Ben Askren]

Oh, I, I would have to know the exact metrics. I would probably say no. And I would go back to my argument.

[Daniel Cormier]

Only Conor, right. Only Conor would be worth paying 15.

[Ben Askren]

I don't even know. I mean, like I don't had a.

[Daniel Cormier]

$22 million gate whenever he out of that fight with Michael Chandler on the pre sale.

[Ben Askren]

Yes. Well, so, okay, so there's obviously the gates, but I think what UFC is, they're work. Like you said, the TV deal is going to be much more lucrative than.

[Daniel Cormier]

The can you imagine Gates.

[Ben Askren]

Well, so I think, I think they're saying is like they're probably going to. To a Netflix or. Right. Because that's the big rumor is like, how many subscribers can we bring you? Right? And so they're looking at like a total of how many people. How many unique people watch a UFC event through the course of a whole year, which is all 40 or all 40 events, you know, and that's probably what Netflix is. Is paying on. So I suppose if there was one really insanely huge event. And to me, that's Connor, not John. Right? John is.

[Daniel Cormier]

Well, John Aspinall could be that event.

[Ben Askren]

Tom Aspinall, that could be a big one, right? Where people who are. Because you got to think of, like, you know, it was a really annoying one. That was. That was kind of like this.

[Daniel Cormier]

What?

[Ben Askren]

It's so annoying. Jake Paul, Mike Tyson. Every. Every on the street had some opinion about it. Like, that they don't want. They don't watch any boxing. That was the only boxing fight they watched the whole year. But they remember Mike Tyson from 1997. And they. There's this influencer kid. They want to have some opinion. So it's like, that is going to be a unique buy. Who's not going to watch any other. Right? So who's. Who can cause unique buys for the ufc. That. That isn't going to happen otherwise. To me, that. That's Conor or, you know, Brock Lesnar. But he's not fighting.

[Daniel Cormier]

He's not fighting anymore. He's almost 50, I think. But I think that they need to make this fight. I think John's kind of steering into this. John, I think I feel like Jon likes to play into people going, he's afraid of Tom Aspinall. He doesn't want to fight Tom Aspinall. When you and I have discussed this many, many times, he's not afraid of Tom Aspinall. He'll fight Tom Aspinall.

[Ben Askren]

You believe I said he would much prefer to fight someone else. That was my take last time. Don't you remember how mad I was that I listen and I like Stipe, So it drove me crazy that I had to. His deep end fought in like four years.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah, it was over, bro. That was bad.

[Ben Askren]

That was crazy.

[Daniel Cormier]

So bad. Yeah.

[Ben Askren]

Oh, man. I really wanted to fight Tom Aspen on that one.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah, that's. That's. I think it's important. I think he's messing around with people, man. And. And I think it's fun for this dude because this dude's made a lot of money and he's been the champion for so long that he really doesn't need. He doesn't need to fight anybody anymore. March Madness is here, and for so many college basketball fans, it is the best time of the year. So once again, your boy's partnered up with the DraftKings sportsbook to give all new customers a fantastic offer. Sign up using my promo code, DCTV. Bet only $5 or more and get $200 in bonus bets instantly. In the NCAA tournament is the right time for upsets. Cinderella stories. Who's going to be the Cinderella this year? Who are we going to look at in the elite eight in the sweet 16 and the final Four that were not supposed to be there? Maybe you're the person that can pick them. And when you pick them, you can score with the DraftKings sportsbook guys. Again. All you got to do, go to the DraftKings sportsbook. Sign up using my promo code, DCTV. Bet $5 or more and get $200 in bonus bets instantly. So get in on the action with the DraftKings sportsbook. Where the crown is yours.

[Ben Askren]

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[Daniel Cormier]

Hey, bro, you know, I got. I got. I got on the other day, because I said something about Alex Pereira. I said. I literally just said this. And here's my explanation. Ben, before I let you go, I said, I feel like we've kind of maxed out the weight at which he can go up.

[Ben Askren]

Right.

[Daniel Cormier]

Because his power is so great.

[Ben Askren]

At middleweight, it was ridiculous.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yes. At light heavyweight, it was still ridiculous, but guys could take shots. That's why Khalil Romtree went so long before he actually went down. Right. I said at heavyweight, especially after watching ankle, I have kind of just stalk him.

[Ben Askren]

Yeah.

[Daniel Cormier]

We might have maxed out the weight at 205. He's too slim.

[Ben Askren]

A little bit, yeah.

[Daniel Cormier]

They were saying, I switched up on Alex Pereira. Is that a bad take? Is that a take? Does that feel like me on Alex Pereira? Is that a bad take?

[Ben Askren]

No. And I don't think. I mean, we've done the show for a couple years. I don't think you Ever said that Alex would do well against Jon Jones or Tom Aspinall? I. I think we always said that was probably not a great fight for him in both those cases.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah. And they're just too big. They're just too big. Like, dude, Tom Aspinall is massive. I saw him in England. I was like, well, this dude is huge.

[Ben Askren]

Yeah.

[Daniel Cormier]

Big old shoulders, big chest, big legs. He's got, like. He's just a big guy. And I. I was not crapping on Pereira.

[Ben Askren]

Why?

[Daniel Cormier]

Why. Why are. Why are people like this, bro? And, yeah, ESPN has been getting your boy lately, dog. They take my stuff from jail. I show, and they take, like, a graphic, and they put the words.

[Ben Askren]

Oh, yeah. They take it totally out of. They do that with this show, too.

[Daniel Cormier]

To me, they put the words, y. Yo, this show gets you clipped off so much. It's crazy. The stuff that you say I see everywhere. Because they take the words and not the actual video of you explaining what you're saying, because the words leave a lot for the fan to interpret. And the fan generally will go, God, Ben Askren really does suck.

[Ben Askren]

I know. It's so dumb. So dumb. Hey, before we go, we got the nca. I just want to know. I want to. I want to see your reaction. How pumped were you when Wyatt Hendrickson got Oklahoma State the conference title?

[Daniel Cormier]

We were in. Bro. We were in the com. You and I were texting, and we were talking about. You said, do you support the Cowboys? I go. I never stopped. You go, well, it got to be much funner this year than it's been in years past. But we were in the midst of going 0 for 4. And then it was, dude, we were over 3. No, we were over 3. When you started texting, because I was texting you about Keegan, I was like, dude, you must be so proud, because the dude's on one leg now. He Dude's on one leg. Essentially, he's number one seed, NCAA tournament. And I knew Dustin Plot was about to get beat by Parker Keck Eisen. I knew it. So I was like, now we're open for. Serber is wrestling this. I was like, okay, server's got to get it done. We need one win. Server gets beat. So then I go dark on you. You're texting me. I go dark. Now I'm nervous. I'm nervous, right, bro? When he won, so he starts winning.

[Ben Askren]

What about when he got hurt, though?

[Daniel Cormier]

He gets reversed by Colton Schultz, and then he gets hurt. I'm like, oh, my God. That would have been the Biggest that would have been the dude over six in the finals would have been crazy. The fact that we won the Big 12 championship and. And by. By the skin of our teeth, for that matter, makes people ignore how horrendous a final round Oklahoma State had. We went 1 for 6 in the finals. Ben, that's nuts.

[Ben Askren]

That's not so good. But, I mean, they had a. They had a great tournament. I mean, yeah, finals weren't great to your point, but it was a really good tournament. And they're. They're kind of in pretty good spots. I don't think anyone can come very close to Penn State.

[Daniel Cormier]

They're gonna beat us by. They're gonna be everybody by 100 points again.

[Ben Askren]

They're gonna win by a lot. I would imagine. They didn't have a great. They didn't have a great Big Ten finals either. But I think the battle is who's going to take second. Iowa has a great shot even though they had terrible. Big Ten.

[Daniel Cormier]

Terrible. Big Tens were wearable.

[Ben Askren]

Awful. And then, you know, Oklahoma State look good. Nebraska look.

[Daniel Cormier]

Nebraska good.

[Ben Askren]

They're really good.

[Daniel Cormier]

Hey, Nebraska at number nine versus Lilla Doll is a tough. That's a good match. Hey, but you know the thing about Lilla Dottle, he's like. He's not like a scared freshman anymore. He's going forward. He's wrestling the way he can. That dude might win it. The national tournament is lucky that Richard Figueroa is on his side because Figueroa is a gamer in the biggest.

[Ben Askren]

He lost to a terrible pro.

[Daniel Cormier]

I don't know if you saw that.

[Ben Askren]

That kid was not good.

[Daniel Cormier]

Figueroa, no offense. Figueroa is a gamer in those big moments.

[Ben Askren]

Yeah.

[Daniel Cormier]

Listen, but Nebraska's good at 25s. They're good. They're good at 41, 49. They're really good. Antro Taylor's really good at 57. 74 is tough. Yeah, 84 is tough. 97's tough.

[Ben Askren]

Yeah.

[Daniel Cormier]

Heavyweight not good.

[Ben Askren]

Not very good.

[Daniel Cormier]

Were you surprised at how bad. Hey, bro. Were you surprised at how bad Gable beat up on Greg Kirkville? Because there was a clip of, like, Carter Srirachi.

[Ben Askren]

Well, you know, posted that.

[Daniel Cormier]

Gable posted it.

[Ben Askren]

Yes. Yes.

[Daniel Cormier]

Were you surprised?

[Ben Askren]

No. You know what's funny? We're talking wrestling now. Let's. Let me get your take on this is. I thought he would win. I thought maybe a little more competitive. I didn't think it was going to be like. I didn't actually think Kirkland had a chance of winning. Gable. I. I said this I was on Flow the other day, and I think you could make a strong argument about him being the second greatest college dress of all time. He's just so much better than everybody.

[Daniel Cormier]

Everybody, bro. He's the best, bro. Yeah, he's the best. I love watching him compete. He's so strong. He's not, like. He's not overly tall, but, like, he's. You can tell he's a man now, and he's, like, just playing with these dudes. It's gonna be so far. I cannot wait to get the feeling.

[Ben Askren]

The one thing I was sad about, though, is I really wanted to see him. I've wanted to see him in the World Championships against Zare for a few years, and he, you know, he's been doing his other things, so hopefully he wrestles the World Championships.

[Daniel Cormier]

That's the problem. That's the problem. Like, coming back to college and doing that is fine. The World Championships will be much more difficult because the guys are just way better.

[Ben Askren]

But he might go fight, too. And honestly, I think he's gonna go fight. How fast could he be the UFC champion? Like, one year, I think.

[Daniel Cormier]

No, dude, you're crazy. Because, dude, I. I think he'll do fine.

[Ben Askren]

You don't see the way he manhandles everybody.

[Daniel Cormier]

The only thing that gives me, like, is. Is. Is Bo Nickel. It's like, Bo's gotten so much better, but B still needs a little time, and I feel like Gable would be in the same type of situation just because his style isn't, like, double legs and stuff. He can't just, like. He's, like, kind of setting them up with his hands, and you don't really have the ability to use your hands to set people up in fighting.

[Ben Askren]

You know, the. You know what I mean? The. The count. My counterpoint to that would be for a heavyweight and especially for a heavyweight wrestler. His footwork is so good.

[Daniel Cormier]

Oh, my God, his footwork is so good. Yeah. I'm, like, the biggest Gable Stevenson fan I got. I swear to God. They, like, it's bad. And then I heard that A.J. ferrari, they. Somebody told me, gun to my head, if I had to pick a champ at 97, it's Ferrari all the time. Somebody goes, he can ride really good, and he can't get his heart to get taken down. They said, gun to my head, I'm picking Ferrari to win 197. This is crazy, bro. To me, this is the best time of the year. Like, I don't know how people hate that. I do this because I love wrestling. And people hate that I go to wrestling with. Yo, I love wrestling. It makes me excited.

[Ben Askren]

Like, I love it, too.

[Daniel Cormier]

You and I spoke for 30 minutes about other stuff. Yeah, I don't have this type of energy for anything else but wrestling. I love wrestling, dude. It's crazy. I love, like, the broken.

[Ben Askren]

Listen, remember, don't get distracted and just have chit chat with Jordan Burroughs. People want you to talk about wrestling, and if they don't, they're going to be mean to you on Twitter.

[Daniel Cormier]

I really don't care if they're mean to me. Everybody get mad at me. Like, Jordan, Jordan. Hey, yo, Jordan was bothered. Jordan was bothered by that, too. I don't care, man. I said people never like me, so I'm used to it. Hey, they like you, so it feels different when they don't like you. Hey, why don't you come and call a couple matches with us?

[Ben Askren]

Well, I'll. I told you. Maybe I'll come Saturday night.

[Daniel Cormier]

I'll call espn. All right, Ben. I'll let you go. My guy. Hey, enjoy the national tournament, guys. Another episode of funk in the champ. From Ben Askren. I'm Daniel Cormier. Peace.

[Ben Askren]

Peace. This is Nikki Glazer from the Nikki Glazer podcast. Have you guys seen this new commercial from Stand up to All Hate? It's basically Snoop Dogg and Tom Brady going back and forth with reasons that they hate each other. But then when you really listen to them, the reasons for the hate are just so stupid. I don't know. This commercial really got me. It's a strong reminder that hate in our country continues to be out of control. So join us at iHeart in standing up to it. If you see hate, speak up. Call it out. Your voice is a powerful tool in this fight. You can learn more by following. Hat's upwithhate. Check engine light on. Take the guesswork out of your check engine light with O'Reilly Veriscan.

[Daniel Cormier]

It's free.

[Ben Askren]

Ask for O'Reilly Veriscan today.

[Daniel Cormier]

Oh, oh, oh. O'Reilly Auto Parts.