Daniel Cormier TV - Daniel Cormier & Ben Askren REACT to Ilia Topuria PROMISED title fight vs. Islam, Sean vs. Merab 2

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Herd with Colin Cowherd Episode Title: Daniel Cormier TV - Daniel Cormier & Ben Askren REACT to Ilia Topuria PROMISED title fight vs. Islam, Sean vs. Merab 2
Release Date: April 3, 2025

The Herd with Colin Cowherd delivers an engaging and in-depth discussion on some of the most pressing topics in the MMA world. Hosted by Daniel Cormier and Ben Askren, this episode delves into the intricacies of upcoming fights, fighter rankings, and the evolving landscape of the UFC. Below is a comprehensive summary capturing all key points, discussions, insights, and conclusions from the episode.

---

1. Travel Troubles in Mexico City

The episode kicks off with Daniel Cormier sharing his recent experiences in Mexico City, highlighting the challenges he faced during his stay.

• Daniel Cormier discusses his digestive issues after dining at a high-end restaurant:

  “I've been to the bathroom 40 times since we've been back, girl. I'm like at a point where I'm scared if I'm gonna take antibiotics. Dude, I don't want to die. You can die from the stuff.”
  (02:00)

• Ben Askren contrasts his own resilience:

  “I have an iron stomach. I barely ever puke or hit anything.”
  (02:24)

This segment sets a personal tone, showcasing the hosts' camaraderie and light-hearted banter amidst serious discussions.

---

2. Ilia Topuria's Promised Title Fight vs. Islam Makhachev

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to analyzing Ilia Topuria’s claim for a title fight against the reigning champion, Islam Makhachev.

• Daniel Cormier emphasizes Topuria’s achievements:

  “Ilia is undefeated, he has defeated two legends in a row. I don't see how you deny him the title shot.”
  (05:13)

• Ben Askren supports the notion by dissecting the current rankings and the essence of championship defenses:

  “If you're the champion, you're supposed to defend the belt against the best person.”
  (05:22)

Key Discussions:

• Topuria's Credentials: Ilia Topuria’s impressive victories over Volkanovski and Hallaway position him as a formidable contender.
• UFC Championship Protocol: The hosts debate the UFC’s obligation to provide Topuria with a guaranteed title shot, especially considering his undefeated record.
• Islam Makhachev's Reluctance: Concerns are raised about Makhachev’s willingness to engage in the promised title fight, with references to potential interference by Khabib Nurmagomedov preventing the matchup.

  “If [Islam] doesn't want to fight, you're stripped.”
  (05:22)

Conclusion: Cormier and Askren advocate for Topuria’s rightful claim to a title shot, arguing that his accomplishments warrant immediate consideration despite the champion’s possible hesitance.

---

3. Sean O'Malley vs. Merab Dvalishvili Rematch

The hosts transition to discussing the anticipated rematch between Sean O'Malley and Merab Dvalishvili, analyzing its potential impact on the bantamweight division.

• Daniel Cormier expresses surprise at the rematch placement:

  “Does that surprise you that O'Malley got a title fight or a rematch?”
  (14:13)

• Ben Askren evaluates the fighters' recent performances:

  “Merab has been relatively unstoppable looking in his last handful of fights.”
  (14:40)

Key Discussions:

• O'Malley's Marketability vs. Performance: While O'Malley is highly recognizable and brings entertainment value, his recent performance against Dvalishvili raises questions about the necessity of a rematch.
• Merab Dvalishvili’s Dominance: Dvalishvili’s consistent victories make him a legitimate challenger who deserves recognition.

Conclusion: The duo debates whether O'Malley’s popularity justifies the rematch or if the UFC should prioritize more competitive and deserving fighters like Dvalishvili in title contention.

---

4. Analysis of UFC Rankings and Fight Matchups

Cormier and Askren delve into the complexities of UFC rankings, exploring potential matchups and the logic behind the promotion’s decisions.

• Islam Makhachev’s Defensive Challenges: The discussion centers on why Makhachev hasn’t defended his title against top contenders, considering Topuria’s rise.
• Potential Fights:
  • Justin Gaethje: Cormier cites Gaethje as a potential title contender, emphasizing his name recognition and exciting fighting style.

    “If I'm Team Makhachev, I'm asking for Justin Gaethje because that's a big name fight.”
    (09:40)

  • Charles Oliveira: Oliveira is mentioned as another prominent fighter positioned for a title shot due to his victories over high-profile opponents.

Key Discussions:

• Ranking Integrity: The hosts express frustration over the UFC’s apparent disregard for rankings in favor of marketable matchups.
• Fight Dynamics: Emphasis on selecting fights that not only uphold competitive standards but also maintain the sport's integrity.

Conclusion: Cormier and Askren advocate for a more transparent and ranking-driven approach to fight promotions to ensure that deserving fighters receive their due opportunities.

---

5. Conor McGregor’s Potential Political Aspirations

A lighter yet intriguing segment addresses Conor McGregor’s speculation about entering the political arena, as influenced by Matt Brown’s predictions.

• Daniel Cormier references Matt Brown’s foresight:

  “Matt Brown said that he had it right. He said Conor told us he was done 10 years ago.”
  (28:02)

• Ben Askren voices skepticism about McGregor’s political ambitions:

  “I don't think he can become the president, but we won't spend too much time on this.”
  (31:01)

Key Discussions:

• Matt Brown’s Prediction: Brown foresaw McGregor’s departure from fighting and possible transition into politics.
• McGregor’s Behavior: The hosts debate whether McGregor’s public persona aligns with the qualities needed for a successful political career.

Conclusion: While acknowledging McGregor’s potential to influence outside the octagon, both hosts remain doubtful about his suitability for a presidential role, citing his unpredictable nature and lack of political experience.

---

6. NCAA Wrestling Finals and Notable Outcomes

The conversation shifts to collegiate wrestling, praising Ben Askren’s coaching accomplishments and reflecting on standout performances in the NCAA finals.

• Daniel Cormier congratulates Ben Askren:

  “Ben, congratulations, man. You guys crushed it this year again at the NCAA tournament.”
  (36:25)

• Ben Askren shares emotional insights into coaching:

  “It's like I had been such a big part of this guy's life for, you know, that was a decade ago or something.”
  (35:38)

Key Discussions:

• Standout Wrestlers: The hosts discuss surprising upsets, such as Wyatt Henderson’s unexpected victory over Greg Kirk Fleet, highlighting the unpredictability and excitement of the tournament.
• Emotional Moments: Ben Askren recounts poignant moments with his wrestlers, emphasizing the deep bonds formed through coaching and competition.

Conclusion: The segment underscores the importance of mentorship and resilience in sports, celebrating the achievements of wrestlers who overcome the odds to excel in the NCAA finals.

---

7. Personal Anecdotes and Gym Experiences

Throughout the episode, Cormier and Askren interweave personal stories and experiences from their time in the gym, providing listeners with a behind-the-scenes look at their professional lives.

• Daniel Cormier shares his interactions with fighters like Johnny Walker:

  “Johnny Walker into my gym for a while. He's crazy, man.”
  (23:40)

• Ben Askren reflects on training young athletes:

  “It's hard to humble yourself and do that. The college kids would certainly beat him.”
  (21:29)

Key Discussions:

• Training Challenges: The hosts discuss the difficulties fighters face in maintaining peak physical condition, citing Sean O'Malley’s struggles with injuries and wrestling.
• Humility in Training: Emphasis on the necessity for fighters to remain grounded and continuously improve, regardless of their status or past victories.

Conclusion: These personal narratives enhance the episode’s relatability, illustrating the dedication and humility required to succeed in the competitive world of MMA and collegiate wrestling.

---

8. Final Thoughts and Closing Remarks

As the episode draws to a close, Cormier and Askren offer final insights and reflections on the discussed topics.

• Final Analysis: Cormier reiterates his support for Topuria’s title shot and expresses optimism about the future matchups in the UFC.

  “These guys fighting each other. Yeah. It's going to be interesting to see how this plays out.”
  (12:54)

• Emotional Farewell: Ben Askren shares a heartfelt moment, highlighting the emotional investment coaches have in their fighters' careers.

  “I'm here for you. And if you just want to sit there and cry, that's what you get to do.”
  (35:38)

Conclusion: The episode concludes on a supportive and motivational note, underscoring the bonds between fighters and coaches and the ever-evolving dynamics of the UFC landscape.

---

Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Daniel Cormier: “I'm literally a son of a killer.”
  (27:00)

• Ben Askren: “I have an iron stomach. I barely ever puke or hit anything.”
  (02:24)

• Daniel Cormier: “If I'm Team Makhachev, I'm asking for Justin Gaethje because that's a big name fight.”
  (09:40)

• Ben Askren: “I say put him in there. You know, 100.”
  (11:35)

• Daniel Cormier: “He's so good now, bro. He took his handicap from like, 11 or 12 down to 7.”
  (13:32)

---

This episode of The Herd offers a compelling blend of strategic analysis, personal anecdotes, and emotional depth, making it a valuable listen for MMA enthusiasts seeking a deeper understanding of the sport’s current narrative and future directions.

Transcript

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[Gilbert King]

Something unexpected happened after Jeremy Scott confessed to killing Michelle Schofield in Bone Valley season one.

[Daniel Cormier]

Every time I hear about my dad is, oh, he's a killer. He's just straight evil.

[Gilbert King]

I was becoming the bridge between Jeremy Scott and the son he'd never known.

[Daniel Cormier]

At the end of the day, I'm literally a son of a killer.

[Gilbert King]

Listen to new episodes of bone Valley Season 2 starting April 9 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ben Askren]

The volume.

[Daniel Cormier]

What'S up guys? Welcome to a brand new episode of Funking the Champ. I'm Daniel Cormier that has been askin Ben. I'm a little late, dog. I'm late, man. Bro.

[Ben Askren]

What?

[Daniel Cormier]

Mexico City got the best of me, dude.

[Ben Askren]

Oh, you, Andrew. You and Joe Piper, bro.

[Daniel Cormier]

It's bad, bro. They told me that because it was such a high end restaurant. They said every water source in the hotel filtered. Everything was filtered. So don't worry about the ice. Just drink it. Just eat it. Man. I've been to the bathroom 40 times since we've been back, girl. I'm like at a point where I'm scared if I'm gonna take antibiotics. Dude, I don't want to die. You can die from the stuff.

[Ben Askren]

What is this? Oh, man.

[Daniel Cormier]

A foreign country where it just messes with your stomach.

[Ben Askren]

I have an iron stomach. I barely ever puke or hit anything. My wife is so annoyed because I, you know, all our Kids. You have little kids, they get sick and they're gross, and I never, ever, ever catch it.

[Daniel Cormier]

Really?

[Ben Askren]

Yeah. Why? One time in the past, maybe 15 or 20 years, and I. I think we pickled some jalapenos ourselves, and I think maybe we didn't do it right. And I puked and vomited for about eight hours straight. And then. Then I was good. I just. It was. I was on an frl and I said, hey, guys, I gotta go, like, live on the show. I'm like, I can't be here anymore. And I literally puked like, 90 seconds later. Like, I walked out of the room right to the bathroom.

[Daniel Cormier]

Is that the worst feeling in the world, though? Like, throwing up?

[Ben Askren]

Awful.

[Daniel Cormier]

Like, throwing up and stuff is the worst. It's like the worst, bro. I don't know. Like, I'm struggling so bad right now, bro. I just been laying in my bed for days. I'm just like, God, please go away. Like, oh, man, Mexico City. I cannot stand you.

[Ben Askren]

You hear?

[Daniel Cormier]

Joe Piper's all, I don't care if people can take offense to it. I'm never going back to that place like that.

[Ben Askren]

You should do the Joe Rogan clause and just not go certain places on your. Are you as big as Joe Rogan yet? No, no, not quite. Almost.

[Daniel Cormier]

All right, so we probably get sore instead of me throwing up and, you know, everything else. So much has happened recently.

[Ben Askren]

Yes.

[Daniel Cormier]

Iliad Deporia is stayed in his claim that he going up to 155 full time was a little easier because he was guaranteed a damn title shot. Guaranteed a damn title shot. We also will talk about Rob and Sean O'Malley in a rematch. Does that surprise you or does that annoy you? And last thing before we go, we're going to talk on. I'll give you a couple minutes, you know, for Funky's take and some gloating because you're right about Conor McGregor, like, in more ways than one, because Matt Brown is saying he told you this 10 years ago. Matt Brown didn't have the other element right, though, that Conor was going to be a politician, which was something you somehow saw. Crazy. But first start with Ilot Toporia. So Il said this is his quote, Ben, before I let you go, the belt will be on the line. He said it will be on the line. That was the promise of leaving my title vacant. They've always kept their promises. They've always kept their promises is what Teu said. He said that it's the only reason he went up, left the belt because they Told him it'll be a guaranteed title fight. It's easy to believe that that was something told to Toporia. But how much of a problem is this going to be if they can't get Makhachev to fight him?

[Ben Askren]

I think Dana should just do Dana stuff and just say, hey, Islam, if you don't want to fight, you're stripped. He's done that. That is in Dana's repertoire now.

[Daniel Cormier]

Iliad, do you agree that Islam doesn't want to fight him?

[Ben Askren]

I mean, if not, why is it. Why is it not happening then?

[Daniel Cormier]

So I just think, like, I just think that there's got to be a reason. There's got to be a. I saw Henry Cejudo saying something the other day, like, even if Islam agrees, Khabib will come over the top and say, nope, not happening.

[Ben Askren]

Well, okay, so, okay, here, here'd be. My thing is why, if you're the champion, you're supposed to defend the belt against the best person. Right? So Ilia has beat two legends in a row and not only beat them, but finished them 145 pounds. Volkanovsky and Hallway, very, very clearly the best. Choosing to go up. Islam has beat almost all of the field, maybe except Armand. But given what just happened with Armand, I don't think they want to give Armand the shot again.

[Daniel Cormier]

So he beat Armand once. Remember he beat him that one.

[Ben Askren]

Yes, I'm sorry, you're right, he did. But given, you know, Armand was just supposed to have the title shot and he pulled out on super late notice. And so they don't want to give it. They want to make him fight someone else first. So that makes perfect sense for Ilya to pop in given the fact that he is a champion. He is undefeated, he has defeated two legends in a row. I don't see how you deny him the title shot.

[Daniel Cormier]

You see, so. So here's my thought on that one. I get it. There is. It would be warranted because there is no clear number one contender. I mean, Hanato Mo just fought for the belt. The clear number one contender is. Is. Is Arman Tsarukian. But if Arman Tsarukian is not next, Charles Oliveira is another guy that has won Fight now beat Michael Chandler was supposed to fight for the belt before fighting against Arman Sian. So he's had chances. Right. Oliveira had worked his way back.

[Ben Askren]

Yes.

[Daniel Cormier]

Into a championship opportunity. He fought Arman, lost and beat, then beat Michael Chandler, put himself back in contention. So there are guys. I just don't know that there's anyone as exciting as Ilot Toria. Because it hasn't happened yet.

[Ben Askren]

Yeah, for sure, for sure. Ilya is the most compelling fight there. I don't know what the pushback would be. Would be on him by.

[Daniel Cormier]

I got it for you.

[Ben Askren]

Oh, tell me.

[Daniel Cormier]

I actually have it for you.

[Ben Askren]

Okay.

[Daniel Cormier]

Or at least I think I have it for you. Then you could tell me if it has any type of. You know, if it's valid in any way. Okay. Islam Mahachev. Look at his resume right now. Read off his title fights and title defenses.

[Ben Askren]

Yeah.

[Daniel Cormier]

So he. Charles Oliver, he beat Charles Oliveira for the belt, right?

[Ben Askren]

Yeah.

[Daniel Cormier]

He didn't defended it against Volkanovsky.

[Ben Askren]

Yep.

[Daniel Cormier]

He then defended it against Volkanovsky. Right. Then he fought Dustin Poirier. Then he fought Moicano. In those fights, he's had two. Four defenses, one championship win. Two of those fights or against featherweights, Granted, Yes. It was the number one pound for pound fighter in the world at the time. Volkanovski. It was so much so that when those guys fought Ben, they said, this is for number one, pound for pound. You remember then Volkanovski fought him pretty competitive the first time, and then they had like a split number one pound.

[Ben Askren]

It was very, very competitive the first time.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yes. And Islam knocked him out. And after he knocked him out, all the talk was about, well, you just knocked out a featherweight. You haven't. It doesn't lend itself to much. I believe that that's the pushback, that even if you beat the Poirier, who has looked so dominant, so unbeatable.

[Ben Askren]

Yeah.

[Daniel Cormier]

People are still going to say, well, you just beat a featherweight. Thoughts?

[Ben Askren]

I mean, if he's vacating a title, he's no longer a featherweight. That. That does. It's not like he's saying, let me hold this featherweight belt and let me come up. He is not holding the featherweight belt. He has vacated the featherweight belt. He is no longer a featherweight. That being said, he was equally as impressive against Volkanovski. And he also knocked out Hallway. Hallway. Just beat Justin Gaethje, who is ranked, what, 4, 3?

[Daniel Cormier]

I honestly believe that's who's gonna fight for the belt. I believe it's gonna be Gaethje. Yeah.

[Ben Askren]

Gaethje lost two fights ago, though.

[Daniel Cormier]

I. Gaethje lost. Yeah. I think it's gonna be Gaethje. I think that's if. If I'm Team Mahachev, I'm asking for Justin Gaethje because that's a big name fight. It's the guy that carries a lot of name recognition. I think that's Gonna be the fight, if I'm being honest with you.

[Ben Askren]

Dang. I mean, I hate it.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Ben Askren]

That is disappointing and I hate it.

[Daniel Cormier]

Why?

[Ben Askren]

He. Well, he lost a hallway and. And Tapuri just put down hallway in very impressive fashion. Like I said, I. I don't even think it's a hard argument. I think to Poria is really by far the most compelling person. I mean, listen, if you didn't have to pour your. Poria said, hey, I'm gonna stay up by the weight and I'm gonna fight Diego Lopez then. Yeah, okay, cool. Let's do Justin Gaethje here. Let's do Charles Oliveira because you're wanting Armand Surrookian to get a win since he just pulled out last minute. That, that would make perfect sense. But he has vacated the title. This is not him trying to keep his featherweight title and come up. This is. He vacated it. He's ready to fight it. Lightweight. He is a lightweight. He's undefeated. Beat legends. Give him the shot.

[Daniel Cormier]

Do you think that he should win a fight first or his title fight win and title fight defense is enough? Because. Hey, let's think about this. Let's. Let's think about this, Ben. Yeah, let's think about this. I love and I love. I love the way Ilya fights. I think he's phenomenal. I always have to say this as a, like, almost as a. A soft landing spot. So people don't get mad at me because the truth is I do like the guy. But he really only had one title defense. So we talk about the resume that he has had. Granted, he beat the two greatest featherweights of all time, in my opinion.

[Ben Askren]

Yeah.

[Daniel Cormier]

Actually, Jose Aldo's the third. But Jose isn't fighting at 11 anymore. He's fighting 135. But he's beaten two of the three best.

[Ben Askren]

Can I interject one thing there also? And those two, those two featherweights, Holloway has a very, very recent win against Justin Gaethje, a lightweight at which they competed at lightweight, Right?

[Daniel Cormier]

Yep.

[Ben Askren]

And then Volkanovski had the very competitive bout with Islam Mahachev. So you have both of those guys also competing at lightweight and having relatively good results.

[Daniel Cormier]

So you don't think that, that he needs to get a victory first? You think he walks right now?

[Ben Askren]

I say put him in there.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Ben Askren]

You know, 100.

[Daniel Cormier]

And honestly, I don't think many would have a problem with it if, if he did get a championship opportunity. I just don't know how to get it together because. And that's why I asked you how much of an issue. Do you think this is going to become?

[Ben Askren]

Well, this is where. I mean, Dana, for as frustrating as this can be, having someone who is like a tyrant or a dictator at the top able to force issues is kind of helpful because it doesn't take a genius to realize that if Taporio is vacating and moving, he's the second best and Makachev is the first best. You make them fight, right? And so if, number one, Makhachev doesn't want to fight, you say, hey, dude, you got to fight. And then if he says, no, screw off, then it's like, okay, well, we're going to take your belt and we're going to put to Poria against someone else. Right. Charles Oliveira for the title shot, and then you can come back and try to earn it later. Like, that's kind of. If the number one guy is not being reasonable, you do kind of have to force their hand. And that's where boxing has so many issues because there's so many belts and there's so many guys pulling shenanigans all the time. It's like, one of the great things about the UFC is that so very frequently, the number one and the number two, they do fight.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yep, they do. Yeah, they have to. That is what that sounds, what the business has been built on.

[Ben Askren]

Yes.

[Daniel Cormier]

These guys fighting each other. Yeah. It's going to be interesting to see how this plays out, man. But, yes, I do kind of agree. I think it's going to be those two guys. Actually, you know what? No, I don't agree.

[Ben Askren]

You want a gate? I know you.

[Daniel Cormier]

Like, I'm not saying I want.

[Ben Askren]

I'm saying it because, like, you could beat him in golf or like, if.

[Daniel Cormier]

He let you win, golf no more, dude. This dude can't beat.

[Ben Askren]

Oh, my God.

[Daniel Cormier]

He lost that fight. They had 260 days left in the year he played golf. 235 days of the year.

[Ben Askren]

What?

[Daniel Cormier]

I swear to God. Are you kidding me? He played 235 of the 260 days left in the year, bro.

[Ben Askren]

He doesn't have kids then, huh?

[Daniel Cormier]

He has no kids. He has just a single dude with a whole bunch of money that plays golf all the time. Like, it's crazy. It's crazy. But he's so good now, bro. He took his handicap from like, 11 or 12 down to 7. Not even a year, Ben.

[Ben Askren]

That's funny.

[Daniel Cormier]

Marab Dwallis really beat Sean O'Malley to become the bantamweight champion of the world. Yeah, it wasn't that competitive a fight. Marabin Goes on to beat, essentially, the Boogeyman and Umar. Mega Med off in Los Angeles.

[Ben Askren]

Yep.

[Daniel Cormier]

So then you start to wonder who's next.

[Ben Askren]

Yes.

[Daniel Cormier]

Come to find out it's going to be Sean O'Malley in Newark, New Jersey, at the Prudential center in May.

[Ben Askren]

Yes.

[Daniel Cormier]

Does that surprise you that O'Malley got a title fight or a rematch? Well, out having.

[Ben Askren]

Yeah, initially it did surprise me a little bit, but then I went and I looked at the rankings, and I don't know who else they put in there. Marab has beaten Sean. He's beaten Peter. He's beaten Umar. That's number one, two and three. Sanhagen has a very recent loss, as does Figueiredo, and I believe those two are fighting each other. That's the top five.

[Daniel Cormier]

Like, no fighting somebody in. In Iowa. The fact that they're going to do a fight card in Iowa, too, is a bit surprising, isn't it?

[Ben Askren]

That is wild. Des Moines, Iowa, right?

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Ben Askren]

I thought Corey Sanhagen was fight. Okay, let me.

[Daniel Cormier]

No, no, no. Davidson Figuero is fighting somebody else in Iowa. It's that Iowa fight card.

[Ben Askren]

Let me. Let me. I'm gonna pull up his profile. He's fighting Evans in Figuro. No. Cor Sanhagen on May 3rd.

[Daniel Cormier]

Sanhagen in Iowa.

[Ben Askren]

That's what I said.

[Daniel Cormier]

I didn't know. I didn't know who the main event was. I did know Davidson was fighting.

[Ben Askren]

So those two are fighting each other. That's four and five. Both of them have a recent loss. So Figuerito lost to Peter Yan and Sandhagen lost to. Who do you lose to? Umar. Right?

[Daniel Cormier]

Lost to Umar. Yep.

[Ben Askren]

So, yeah. So it's really the only thing that makes a whole lot of sense. Peter Yan is in there also. But, you know, he had. He had a more recent loss to Merab, so. Not more recent than Sean. More. Yeah, more recent. The other ones. Yeah.

[Daniel Cormier]

So, like, tell me who's seven through ten?

[Ben Askren]

Tell me seven through ten. All right, seven through ten. We got Song, you dong. Marlon Vera. Rob fought Henry.

[Daniel Cormier]

Just beat Henry Cejudo, right?

[Ben Askren]

Yes.

[Daniel Cormier]

You have Marlon Vera. He not Cheeto? Nope. Who's. Who's after that?

[Ben Askren]

Rob Font.

[Daniel Cormier]

Okay, so Song. You don't. Could be the only one. Now, granted. This is why now this is why. Right. Do you remember Alex Pereira fought Khalil Roundtree? He was number seven. Do you remember when Pantoja fought Steve Erceg? He was number 10.

[Ben Askren]

That was. Yeah, that was wild. I don't know why. I think they just needed an opponent, I guess.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah. So I don't know that we're confined to the rankings.

[Ben Askren]

Look, Jan just beat. Jan just beat you. Dong. So Jan's actually won a couple in a row against some relatively highly ranked opponents. So maybe he's someone you could potentially throw back in there.

[Daniel Cormier]

Sean beat him. They all just beat each other.

[Ben Askren]

Yes.

[Daniel Cormier]

That's the craziest thing. About 120, 35 pounds.

[Ben Askren]

Yeah.

[Daniel Cormier]

They've all beaten each other except Marab.

[Ben Askren]

Yeah.

[Daniel Cormier]

So when you look at this fight, right, the last fight was at the Sphere in September.

[Ben Askren]

Yep.

[Daniel Cormier]

Barab wins the fight. Decision. Take down. Take down. Takedown. The only reason it's surprising to me is for this reason, I'm not surprised that Sean O'Malley gets a title fight. Because I know that for all the guys in this division, he's the one that's most recognizable. He's the one that carries the most name recognition. He's the one that people know about more than anyone. But Al Jermaine said it's not as impactful as they would make you believe as a champion in terms of him in pay per view buys and everything, but he's the most recognizable. And boy, Newark, New Jersey has had some title fights that have not been great. They've had some fights go there in May where it's almost like that May pay per view has been like one where it's like a reset because the April one's so good. All right. Like, because Miami's always awesome in April, then May is kind of like a reset, then June and July is usually pretty good. The only thing that's worrisome for me, if it's Sean O'Malley, what has he done? He supposedly was injured, right?

[Ben Askren]

He didn't say he was going to be injured. He was out for like a whole year or something.

[Daniel Cormier]

Exactly, Ben. That's why. That's my point. He said he was hurt. Remember the rotator cuff or something? That was messed up that he was so hurt. That was part of the reason he lost and he was going to be away for a while trying to get healthy. Not only that, he lost because he couldn't stop takedowns. What do you think he has done in the nine months since the fight to improve that? Especially if he was hurt in the beginning of the recovery where he couldn't wrestle, couldn't train. If you have a bad shoulder, you are not wrestling at the level that you need to wrestle in order to wrestling.

[Ben Askren]

You're not wrestling at all if you got a really bad shoulder.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yes, yeah, but even that, Ben, even if it's not a torn rotator cuff and it's just a bad shoulder, you're not wrestling at the level you need to. To defend Marab.

[Ben Askren]

Yeah. And honestly for Sean, you know, if you look at his skill set and who he is, I kind of think this is a bad move. If he gets beat up by Marab again, then he loses a whole bunch of attraction because it's like, well, you already lost the champ twice, so until the champ goes away, they're not going to give you a third shot against him. He could have fought some maybe lower ranked guys and this looked, you know, against guys who can't take him down, he kind of looks like a real freaking superstar. Right. He's really exciting, very diverse. Striking attack so he could look really good. Built the fight back up into something bigger. But now I feel like everyone is feeling like you're feeling, hey, we just saw this. It wasn't competitive. Why do we need to see this again?

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah, you see, I don't mind. I just, I don't mind seeing it again. My, my thing was, I thought. And Grant, I'm not his coach. I'm not everybody. I thought that in order for him to really, truly Ben, be able to fight this guy the way that he needs to, we may be out of, out of the, out of pocket here. We may not know what he's doing. But yes, My thought was Sean O'Malley should maybe go to Ben Askren's wrestling academy, get some wrestling shoes and literally just wrestle.

[Ben Askren]

I invited him a couple years ago.

[Daniel Cormier]

Remember that he wouldn't come in Phoenix, go to Valiant. It's there.

[Ben Askren]

Yeah, right, absolutely.

[Daniel Cormier]

Literally put on some wrestling shoes and understand all the spots in between in wrestling, because that is where. That's where fighters struggle, man. It's not the initial takedown. You and I both know from fighting in the Octagon and wrestling at the international level. The problem with scoring at international level is at step one, those guys can defend. Step two, they can defend. Step three, they can defend in every little inch in the middle, they can defend. In fighting, that's not the case. Right. You can actually go run a pipe, step across, bang him with the head. You could, you could do so many different things and you only develop that in a wrestling room. I thought for Sean to true, and I'm not saying he's going to lose, he can still knock him out, but I thought for him to make sure that that doesn't happen again, he would need to get into a Full wrestling environment to try to work on those skills in between the takedown attempts.

[Ben Askren]

And that, that's something that I, you know, a lot of fighters that I know. It's hard to humble yourself that much and then, you know, go in there and. And get your ass kids for a while. Yeah, I mean, honestly, like, those kids at Valiant would probably beat Sean. I'm certain they would beat Sean. The college kids would certainly beat him. It's hard to humble yourself and do that. And then, I mean, the thing I think about is then you're gonna have to do it. It's not like you do for a week. And, you know, it's like you gotta.

[Daniel Cormier]

Do for like a year.

[Ben Askren]

Yeah, I was. I was in many months. But yeah, a year would probably be sufficient.

[Daniel Cormier]

Ideal.

[Ben Askren]

Ideal, yeah. So I. I wish Sean would have taken some more time, improved his wrestling, but he still does. He has dynamic striking. He has knockout capabilities. Now, Merab has been relatively unstoppable looking in his last handful of fights. You know, the other one I was just kind of playing around while you were talking is Pantoja hasn't actually lost since 2020. He's been on, I think it's like eight or nine fight win streaks. That would be an interesting one maybe, to see him bump up against me. Rob, although as dominant as Marab is, maybe you don't really give him too much of a chance, but maybe that can make it exciting. I don't know.

[Daniel Cormier]

He's too small. He's just too small for Morab.

[Ben Askren]

He's that small.

[Daniel Cormier]

He's small. Yeah. You could tell me Rob's big, dude. He's like thick. Like, he's got a big old chain. He looks like a wrestler, you know.

[Ben Askren]

Who'S been coming out to my gym.

[Daniel Cormier]

Who?

[Ben Askren]

He's number 15. But my, my. This guy, Montel Jackson.

[Daniel Cormier]

I know Montel, dude. I met Montel at that camp we did way back in the day.

[Ben Askren]

Oh, yeah. That was like 20. Was it 20, 19 or something, dude.

[Daniel Cormier]

When I was in Wisconsin for something, you had me do a clinic and you had all those kids, and Montel was in there as like a little boy that had an idea that he wanted to fight.

[Ben Askren]

He was still a high school kid at that time.

[Daniel Cormier]

I don't know. I don't know how old he was, but he was young. Like, he was young.

[Ben Askren]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, he's still. I don't know how old he is.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah, I remember him.

[Ben Askren]

Doesn't say his birthday on here, but he's been coming out. He is A gigantic featherweight. Like, you know, it's really funny. And I know. I know. Obviously, you know this from wrestling. Like, you see the high school kids, and they're like, oh, my gosh. Making 132 is so hard. And, you know. Yeah. But then you see them standing next to him, and you're like, that guy makes 135. You're complaining about 132, but he's like a giant compared to you. Like, he makes you look like a runt. Like, but you don't stop your whining.

[Daniel Cormier]

But wait, though. Do you. You don't have kids cut much?

[Ben Askren]

Not. Not much. So when they have to start cutting a little bit, you know, it's like, oh, I don't know if I can make. Whatever. And then it's like. But since he's been out there, I'm like, hey, guys, that guy's 135. Like, yeah.

[Daniel Cormier]

And then you could show him that. And they're like, okay, that.

[Ben Askren]

Yes.

[Daniel Cormier]

Okay, maybe I'm not cutting as hard as.

[Ben Askren]

Yeah.

[Daniel Cormier]

As I think.

[Ben Askren]

I mean, he. He is really strong.

[Daniel Cormier]

Johnny Walker in. I had Johnny Walker into my gym for a while. He's. He's crazy, man. He comes in and wrestles, but he's humbling himself. Dude hasn't gotten a takedown in four months. He's been here four months. He has gotten one takedown. But, oh, man, he's okay with it, right? He's like, I'm. I know that I'm improving. Yeah, it's nuts, too, because they feel the way that we train, it's over training. I'm like, bro, I tell you, if you can get through this, I promise you, you're going to be better for it. All right? Been before I let you go. Hey, bro, it's true. It's true. Conor McGregor, that he's done, bro. Like, damn, dog. All right, guys, it's time for the final Four. And, hey, maybe March Madness hasn't been as magical this year because all four number ones have made the final four. But as you know, for every big sporting event, your boy hooks up with the DraftKings sportsbook to give all new customers a fantastic offer. So all new customers bet only $5 or more when signing up. Use my promo code, DCTV. We'll give you 150 in bonus bets instantly. Look, if you were chalk all tournament, then you are winning. But right now, with four number ones, you got to get creative. So why not get Creative at the DraftKings Sportsbook? Once again, sign up using my promo code DCTV. Bet only $5 or more and every new customer gets 150 and bonus bets instantly. Guys, go to the DraftKings Sportsbook right now for all your final four needs and go to the DraftKings Sportsbook to get your crown. Because we always say that crown is yours.

[Ben Askren]

Gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER in New York, call 877-8-HOPENY or text hopeny467-369 in Connecticut. Help is available for problem gambling. Call 887-89-7777 or visit ccpg.org Please play responsibly on behalf of Boot Hill Casino and Resort in Kansas, 21 and over. Age and eligibility varies by jurisdiction. Boyd in Ontario, new customers only. Bonus bets expire 168 hours after issuance. For additional terms and responsible gaming resources, see dkng Co Audio.

[Talkspace Ad]

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[Gilbert King]

Scott confessed to killing Michelle Sch in Bone Valley Season one.

[Daniel Cormier]

I just knew him as a kid.

[Gilbert King]

Long silent voices from his past came.

[Ben Askren]

Forward and he was just staring at me.

[Gilbert King]

And they had secrets of their own to share.

[Ben Askren]

I'm Gilbert King.

[Daniel Cormier]

I'm the son of Jeremy Lynn Scott.

[Gilbert King]

I was no longer just telling the story. I was part of it.

[Daniel Cormier]

Every time I hear about my dad is, oh, he's a killer. He's just straight evil.

[Gilbert King]

I was becoming the bridge between a killer and the son he'd never known.

[Daniel Cormier]

If the cops and everything would have done their job properly, my dad would have been in jail. I would have never existed.

[Gilbert King]

I never expected to find myself in this place. Now I need to tell you how I got here.

[Daniel Cormier]

At the end of the day, I'm literally a son of a killer.

[Gilbert King]

Bone Valley Season 2 Jeremy.

[Daniel Cormier]

Jeremy, I want to tell you something.

[Gilbert King]

Listen to new episodes of bone Valley Season 2 starting April 9 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts and to hear the entire new season ad free with exclusive content starting April 9th. Subscribe to Lava for Good plus on Apple Podcasts.

[Daniel Cormier]

Matt Brown, though, said that he had it right. He said Connor told us he was done 10 years ago. He said he told us like 10 years ago what he was going to do. Brown said, do you remember him talking about it? I'm going to come in, I'm going to take over, I'm going to make money, and I'm going to get the out. He said something along the lines of, this game is brutal. You don't want to be in it too long. He told us however many eight, ten years ago, he literally told us. And that's exactly what he has done. So it's kind of a genius, like, was kind of actually a genius. Like, he knew you can't stay long. So he wasn't here for a long time. He was here for a good time.

[Ben Askren]

Well, I mean, I. I am a big fan of not staying and fighting for a long time. It is a tough. It's a tough career and probably not something you should be in forever. That being said, you know, I. I do recall him saying that, but it's been funny because, you know, he's been in and out of the fighting thing for. For a while. Right. He took a couple years off. He came back and fought Dustin Poirier and, you know, I fought Cowboy, I guess, one time also. And now he's been, you know, teasing a comeback. He even went as far as filming the Ultimate Fighter. That's not like he showed up for 30 minutes. Right. He filmed the whole season.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Ben Askren]

So he had to have at least an idea that, hey, I'm probably going to come back. I don't think they didn't pay you guys that well, but it's in the buildup of your personality and future earnings and that type of stuff. Yeah. So I think he probably had an intention.

[Daniel Cormier]

And I think Dana just pays everything.

[Ben Askren]

Dana White.

[Daniel Cormier]

So do you think Dana just pays everything you just said? I don't know that Dana pays you guys that well to do the Ultimate Fighter. So do you think Dana just, like, pays everything?

[Ben Askren]

What do you mean, pays everything?

[Daniel Cormier]

Like, you think that every check that comes out of the UFC or anything associated with the UFC comes from Dana White?

[Ben Askren]

I think any large amount. Was it Dana? I just told you he was a tyrant a little bit ago. I think. Yes. He says yes and no to all these things. No, no. If you. If you got a check and they didn't know about it, he'd be like, daniel, give that back right now.

[Daniel Cormier]

No. So you don't think that. So you don't think that for the Ultimate Fighter, maybe, like, you get paid by Polygian, the company that does the Ultimate Fighter instead.

[Ben Askren]

Of course that's who you get paid by. But, like, you guys all simplified Tyrone.

[Daniel Cormier]

You guys all think that Dana pays everything. It's kind of crazy, the idea of people, the way they view the ufc.

[Ben Askren]

Well, I mean, if. If. If that's not. I mean, in my experiences. In my experiences, that's how it has been. And if that has changed or I'm incorrect, then Dana does a very good job of making him seem like he is in charge of all the things.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah. No, he can't. It's. It's too big. Everything's too big, like, at this point to. For him to do everything. But. Okay, Conor McGregor. Yeah. Matt Brown was right. Matt Brown was right. Conor did say those things. And. And we should have saw it coming. What we didn't see coming. I think the only person that saw it coming is you in the politics, like, Ben, you were joking, bro. You were messing up.

[Ben Askren]

He was always talking about it, but, Yeah, I didn't think he was actually trying to be the president.

[Daniel Cormier]

Well, is he gonna try to be the president or is he gonna try to be something else?

[Ben Askren]

No, I think he's a president.

[Daniel Cormier]

That's so crazy. He can't win Candy. I heard they hate him over there.

[Ben Askren]

I get. I guess we'll. I guess we'll figure it out.

[Daniel Cormier]

Hey, hold on a second. Justin. Oh, hey. I'm doing a store. I'm doing my show. Real quick. We've been asking real quick. It's kind of gonna become the president of Ireland. Stop calling me for this dumb shit. No, I was calling you before I started, and then Ben and I started talking about fighting, and then I was telling Ben that I think you're gonna get a title fight next and all this, but I figured, well, I'll answer. And since we're on that topic, I'm just asking you, is he gonna be the president of Ireland? Terrible question. Terrible question.

[Ben Askren]

Ask. Ask Justin if he would be okay being governed by Conor McGregor.

[Daniel Cormier]

He said he doesn't know about Ireland, Ben. And he doesn't care. This is just a gage, baby. He said America, baby. Hey, jg, let me call you afterwards. I want to talk about golf in Florida. All right, bye. Ben, could you hear him?

[Ben Askren]

Yeah.

[Daniel Cormier]

He goes. I don't.

[Ben Askren]

It's a terrible question.

[Daniel Cormier]

He's so crazy. I don't give a fuck about Ireland. America, baby. This dude's crazy. Yeah. I don't think he can become the president, but we won't spend too much time on this because it seems like people are kind of over Conor McGregor. It's kind of crazy. Like, for a while, you wanted Conor McGregor in every single segment of your show, but it seems like people don't care anymore. Like, are they? And they're probably justified in it, considering he's just a politician now. Hey, do you think the president being at the NCAA tournament added to the ratings?

[Ben Askren]

Hell, yeah.

[Daniel Cormier]

You do, huh?

[Ben Askren]

Absolutely.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah, I think so, a little bit. I mean, how much? Yeah, because it was like, it was.

[Ben Askren]

The most viewed in, what, 10 years? For the final.

[Daniel Cormier]

15 years.

[Ben Askren]

15 years. Nice.

[Daniel Cormier]

Almost a million people watched the NCAA finals.

[Ben Askren]

Yeah. That was awesome. No, yeah. Both him and Elon. Elon there. And yeah, it definitely added to the. The spectacle of everything. And then the finish, which, you know, I. I thought you were incorrect in, but the finishing, the way it finished, I did not see that one coming. It was. You wrote the script. It was quite the swerve you had. You really got us on that one, Daniel. I'm not sure. You might have wrote it.

[Daniel Cormier]

Do you remember before I called you asking about it because everybody was so mad about the order, because you're my resident, like, wrestling insider, so anytime I have, like, a super wrestling question, I go to you, and you were like, now don't like it. Can't stand it. How about Wyatt Henderson? He won the freaking Hodge Trophy. That's so crazy.

[Ben Askren]

Yeah, I mean, you know, given prior results of Wyatt, I don't know, it didn't really make sense to give him a chance, but I guess that's why he wrestled the matches. If you look at his results from, say, last year, where he lost a. A younger basa and then wasn't super competitive with Greg Kirk Fleet, you know, the idea of him upsetting Gable, in my opinion, was far fetched. Yeah, he went out. He went out there and he made it happen. And yeah, I mean, I want to say it was. I obviously wasn't alive for a long time after the Gable owing. So I can't tell you because I wasn't there the actual magnitude of the shock of that. But from what it says, it was the biggest ever. But of my lifetime following wrestling, I cannot think of a more shocking NCAA result. Matt Ramos for Spencer Lee is not as shocking because Matt Ramos had him on his back twice earlier in the duel of that year. So you can see a path for that to happen.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yes.

[Ben Askren]

This one. Gable had him. His. What? His Last loss was 2019.

[Daniel Cormier]

He was just so. He's so good. So he's so good. Like, that's the. It's like sometimes you see a guy that just knows how to wrestle and he's like. He's so good that you just didn't think it could happen. Hey, Ben, I gotta tip my cap to you before. Before we go, I saw a picture of you and Keegan O'Toole walking out of the arena. Dude, that was awesome, bro. Like, the fact that you guys have such a strong. And he lost and he. But he's injured. Make no mistake about it, he was injured. Only Keegan Otu could have gotten to the NCAA finals with that injury. But I saw you two walking back in the balls of the arena as you were leaving, and you kind of had your hand on his shoulder, and I don't know how you keep it together in that moment, Ben. I would try. If I got to walk Cody Merrow back or. Or one of my guys back, knowing what they went through, I would feel as though I'm touching that. Like, I'm touching that little kid on the back. That little boy. Not a man. Right. Because you kind of see him in that vein at times.

[Ben Askren]

Yeah, I mean, that's. You know, I was thinking, I. I hope I don't tear up, but I did tear up with my wife. But it's like I remember when he was 15 and he lost out for his first year at U17s and I don't remember why, but I think everyone else was done already at that point, and they had all left to go back to the Airbnb where everyone was staying. And, like, he was just sitting there crying, and it was like, you know, it was like a flashback to that. It's like I had been such a. A big part of this guy's life for, you know, that was a decade ago or something. I don't know. And it was so, you know, so cool to watch him come all the way through. And, you know, as a coach, you get to be there in some great moments, but you gotta be there some shitty, too. And, you know, it's like, hey, I'm here for you. And if you just want to sit there and cry, that's. That's what you get to do, you know? You put your life into this. Yeah.

[Daniel Cormier]

It was awesome. It was awesome. Ben, congratulations, man. You guys crushed it this year again at the NCAA tournament. Guys, for Ben Askard, I'm Daniel Cormier. Until next time, Peace.

[Gilbert King]

Something unexpected happened after Jeremy Scott confessed to killing Michelle Schofield in Bone Valley season one.

[Daniel Cormier]

Every time I hear about my dad is, oh, he's a killer. He's just straight evil.

[Gilbert King]

I was becoming the bridge between Jeremy Scott and the son he'd never known.

[Daniel Cormier]

At the end of the day, I'm literally a son of a killer.

[Gilbert King]

Listen to new episodes of bone Valley Season 2, starting April 9 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.