The Herd with Colin Cowherd
"Daniel Cormier TV - DC on texting Jack Della Maddalena, Luke Rockhold KO, Islam Makhachev"
Date: September 6, 2025
Hosts: Daniel Cormier (DC), Dean Thomas
Episode Overview
This episode of "Three Rounds with Daniel Cormier" (presented as a segment in The Herd) dives into the UFC’s hottest topics: the mental games ahead of Islam Makhachev vs. Jack Della Maddalena, the painful spectacle of MMA veterans being KO’d in post-retirement bouts—specifically Luke Rockhold's recent knockouts—and the stacked UFC middleweight division. Cormier and Thomas blend expert knowledge with personal anecdotes, confronting tough questions about fighter legacy and accountability in combat sports.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Makhachev vs. Jack Della Maddalena: Mind Games and Matchup Dynamics
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Jack Della Maddalena’s Pre-Fight Comments:
Jack Della claims Islam Makhachev is an “easier fight” than Bilal Muhammad, citing Makhachev’s striking as more predictable.- Dean Thomas (03:43): “I don't necessarily agree with him... Islam’s style is a little more predictable, a little more fundamentally sound than Bilal. Bilal is a little bit more wild, makes him a little bit more unpredictable.”
- Daniel Cormier (04:09): “Jack Della Maddalena is doing what he needs to... to not only give himself confidence, but really try to poke away at the confidence of Makhachev.”
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On Breaking the Dagestani Aura:
The panel discusses how “poking away” at Makhachev’s confidence is as much psychological warfare as it is physical.- Dean Thomas (05:15): “For so long, the Dagani wrestlers... have had guys losing before the fight started. But as we see, the gap is closing... The more that Jack pokes away at him and lets them know, ‘listen, I'm not afraid of you,’ I think that gives him a lot of advantages.”
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Fight Outlook:
The key is Maddalena’s takedown defense. The hosts agree he must keep it standing to tilt odds in his favor, given Makhachev’s finishing streak.- Daniel Cormier (05:56): “Ultimately, this fight is going to come down to exactly what happened in the Bilal fight. If he can defend takedowns and make Makhachev fight him...standing, that's where his chances are elevated.”
- Cormier also notes Makhachev has finished 7 of his last 8 opponents—Volkanovski being the exception. (07:21)
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Training Edge:
Dean emphasizes the role of grappling coach Craig Jones, suggesting with more prep time, Maddalena is the best prepared yet to counter Makhachev (06:52). -
Notable Moment—Texting Jack Della:
- Daniel Cormier (07:53): “I just texted, far Jack. I go, jack, wrong, bro. What's up? Why, Jack? Why? And Jack Della wrote back, the champ. The champ just wrote back, 'my bad, DC. It was a bad take.'”
— Showing the light-hearted, respectful rapport between analyst and athlete.
- Daniel Cormier (07:53): “I just texted, far Jack. I go, jack, wrong, bro. What's up? Why, Jack? Why? And Jack Della wrote back, the champ. The champ just wrote back, 'my bad, DC. It was a bad take.'”
2. Luke Rockhold’s Knockouts and Fighter Legacy
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The KO by Darren Till:
Rockhold was KO’d in a “spectacle” boxing match, following a string of painful losses outside of MMA.- Dean Thomas (08:59): “I couldn't bring myself to even watching the whole fight just because I felt so bad for Luke Rockhold... These guys are retired. They should not be in this position to be getting knocked out by these killers.”
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Feeling for Friends in the Game:
Cormier, as Rockhold’s friend, laments seeing former champions risk legacy and health for such fights.- Daniel Cormier (10:24): “It sucks when you see a guy that was a champion all of a sudden almost say, ‘to hell with the legacy. I’m just gonna go get paid.’”
- He traces Rockhold’s chin issues back to when Bisping KO’d him, suggesting opponents never looked back.
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Who Is Responsible?
The pair struggles with the question: Who intervenes when a great is past their prime?- Daniel Cormier (11:49): “Who, like, ultimately... who does the majority of it fall on? How do you tell a Luke Rock...hey, you're not good enough anymore?”
- Dean Thomas (12:06): “I don't know. That’s the problem... it may fall on the commissions for signing off.”
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Exploitation in "Legend Fights":
- Dean Thomas (11:28): “What they’re doing to these retired MMA guys is exploitative and absolutely wrong. Taking advantage of their names and... using these guys as springboards for their own organizations.”
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Painful Final Moment:
- Daniel Cormier (12:44): “You could just tell that it don't matter. Like it just doesn't matter to him that he got knocked out. And that sucks.”
3. Middleweight Madness: Who Gets the Next Shot?
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Who is Champion?
- Slight confusion about champion status. Cormier jokes Hamzat “don’t fight enough” (13:54), setting a lighter tone for a deeper division breakdown.
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Logjam at Contender Level:
Multiple plausible contenders—Nassourdine Imavov, Kyle Bahio, Fluffy Hernandez, Rainier De Ridder—make predicting the next title challenger tough, especially with recent shakeups.- Dean Thomas (14:47): “I can't say comfortably that this is for... the number one contender.”
- Both note Fluffy’s momentum after an impressive last fight.
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What It Takes:
- Dean Thomas (15:52): “That’s when you gotta have a holy shit moment. Because a holy shit moment is what will push you over the edge and force Dana’s hand to give you that title shot.”
- Bahio may win, but cautious Imavov is a tough opponent to look “spectacular” against.
- Dean Thomas (15:52): “That’s when you gotta have a holy shit moment. Because a holy shit moment is what will push you over the edge and force Dana’s hand to give you that title shot.”
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Odds & Perceptions:
- Despite the expert view that these are close fights, bookmakers favor Fluffy and Bahio.
- Daniel Cormier (17:07): “If [Fluffy] drowns Rainier De Ridder in the way that he did... There’s no way you could say that he doesn’t deserve a title shot.”
- Dean Thomas (18:00): “De Ridder...should be getting some respect...he can always rely on his grappling.”
4. Legacy, Friendship, and Speaking Up (Final Thoughts)
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Cormier’s Candid Reflection:
- Daniel Cormier (21:46): “When you are a champion...there are so many ways for you to make money outside of... boxing or bare knuckle... Find alternatives, guys. You don't have to fight forever.”
- He warns against the “undefeated” Father Time, calling out the sadness of watching legends go out “like that.”
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Responsibility to Speak Up:
Cormier and Thomas stress the importance of friends voicing concern when retired fighters make risky choices.- Daniel Cormier: “If you're a friend of a guy that was a great fighter... don't hold your tongue. Say it. Because Dean and I did. We both regret that we didn't speak up sooner."
(21:46–24:08)
- Daniel Cormier: “If you're a friend of a guy that was a great fighter... don't hold your tongue. Say it. Because Dean and I did. We both regret that we didn't speak up sooner."
Notable Quotes & Moments
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On Mind Games in MMA:
- “Jack Della Maddalena is doing what he needs to... to not only give himself confidence, but really try to poke away at the confidence of Makhachev.”
— Daniel Cormier (04:09)
- “Jack Della Maddalena is doing what he needs to... to not only give himself confidence, but really try to poke away at the confidence of Makhachev.”
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About the Dagestani “Aura”:
- “For so long, the Dagani wrestlers... have been running through everybody else. So that aura... has had guys losing before the fight started. But as we see, the gap is closing.”
— Dean Thomas (05:15)
- “For so long, the Dagani wrestlers... have been running through everybody else. So that aura... has had guys losing before the fight started. But as we see, the gap is closing.”
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Fighter Exploitation:
- “What they’re doing to these retired MMA guys is exploitative and absolutely wrong. Taking advantage of their names... now they're using these guys as springboards for their own organizations.”
— Dean Thomas (11:28)
- “What they’re doing to these retired MMA guys is exploitative and absolutely wrong. Taking advantage of their names... now they're using these guys as springboards for their own organizations.”
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On Speaking Up for Friends:
- “If you're a friend of a guy that was a great fighter... don't hold your tongue. Say it. Because Dean and I did [not]. We both regret that we didn't speak up sooner."
— Daniel Cormier (24:00)
- “If you're a friend of a guy that was a great fighter... don't hold your tongue. Say it. Because Dean and I did [not]. We both regret that we didn't speak up sooner."
Timestamps for Key Segments
- Opening Banter & Previews: 02:39–03:43
- Makhachev vs. Jack Della Maddalena Analysis: 03:43–08:17
- DC Texts Jack Della Maddalena: 07:50–08:17
- Luke Rockhold KO/Retired Fighters in Boxing: 08:29–13:01
- Who Should Be Responsible for Retired Fighters?: 11:49–13:01
- Middleweight Division Breakdown: 13:51–18:40
- Bookmakers vs. Analysts on Middleweights: 17:07–18:18
- Final Thoughts on Champion Legacy, Friendship, and Speaking Up: 21:46–24:08
Tone & Style
DC and Dean’s rapport is friendly, occasionally ribbing, but always respectful and driven by firsthand experience. The mood shifts from playful banter to serious reflections about fighter health and career choices, offering a blend of insider knowledge, candor, and deep care for the MMA community.
A must-listen for MMA fans looking for more than just fight picks—this episode digs into the psychology, fallout, and ethics of contemporary mixed martial arts.