Daniel Cormier TV - Tom Aspinall WARNS Ciryl Gane not to engage, Jon Jones, heavyweight title

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Herd with Colin Cowherd

Special Episode: Daniel Cormier TV – Tom Aspinall WARNS Ciryl Gane not to Engage, Jon Jones, Heavyweight Title
Release Date: October 25, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this episode of The Herd, Daniel Cormier hosts heavyweight UFC champion Tom Aspinall ahead of his highly anticipated title defense against Ciryl Gane at UFC 321. The conversation delves deep into Aspinall's growth during his year-long layoff, his approach to the Gane fight, the heavyweights' current landscape, narratives in MMA media, and what the future may hold should Aspinall continue his dominant run.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Reflecting on the Interim Title and Growth Through Adversity

• Aspinall recounts his path to the interim title, fighting Sergey Pavlovich on short notice, and the unexpected gains during his year out of competition.
  • “When you start off in this sport ... you envision yourself as being the champion of the world. ... For me, I wanted to be.” (Aspinall, 04:20)
  • Despite the big moment, Aspinall clarifies, “It wasn't so much the interim title ... it was the fact that I wasn’t ready for that fight.” (Aspinall, 04:40)
  • On his time off: “I've got a lot better in the year off ... I was in the gym, just improving, getting better, working on things.” (Aspinall, 05:44)

2. Title Defenses and Heavyweight Activity

• Discussion revolves around the ideal level of champion activity, referencing Merab Dvalishvili’s frequent defenses.
  • “What's the maximum you fought in a year? ... Three’s perfect.” (Aspinall, 06:23, 06:33)
  • Confirms three fights a year would be the sweet spot.

3. On Getting the Gane Fight and Assessing the Division

• Aspinall explains that Ciryl Gane was the only logical title defense, given the state of the division.
  • “I didn't exactly get given a choice ... The only guy that they offered me was Gane, so obviously I take it.” (Aspinall, 07:11, 07:32)

4. Respect for Ciryl Gane and MMA Media Narratives

• Aspinall offers high praise for Gane, challenges the narrative that the fight is a mismatch, and critiques the simplistic punditry surrounding the match-up.
  • “These media people are crazy ... people get a narrative and they just run with it.” (Aspinall, 08:17)
  • “My fight IQ is really, really high and I don't think I get a lot of credit for it ... Sorgan's good.” (Aspinall, 08:17, 08:44)
• Aspinall and Cormier reflect on close contests and questionable judging:
  • “Did you think he lost that fight?”
    “I did ... but I’m not a judge, though.” (Aspinall, 08:49-08:54)
  • On recent MMA officiating: “Yo, they be messing up the decisions constantly.” (Host, 09:03)

5. Responding to Critiques about Gane’s Loss to Jon Jones

• Both agree that Gane’s quick submission loss to Jones shouldn’t cloud broader judgment of his ability.
  • “Listen man, Cyril’s really good ... Sometimes you show up and ... just don't have a good night ... that night in particular, he wasn't very good. Does that mean he's not very good overall? No.” (Aspinall, 10:10-10:32)

6. Aspinall’s Breakdown of Saturday’s Matchup & Tactical Warning

• Cormier asks if Gane will be more aggressive, with Aspinall cautioning Gane not to engage recklessly.
  • “If he's more engaging from a technical standpoint, that evens the odds up a lot more on my part. So I wouldn’t. If I was him, I wouldn't force the engagement.” (Aspinall, 13:52)

7. Aspinall’s Belief and Awareness of His Power

• “You said if you hit somebody square in their face, they're gonna fall.”
  “Yes.” (Host & Aspinall, 14:28-14:33)
  • Aspinall reflects on his knockouts: “Every time I knock somebody out, I just can't believe that I've knocked him out. ... I've hit him and I've been like, oh, like you're unconscious. I can't believe it.” (Aspinall, 14:56, 15:14)

8. Questions of Endurance—Can Aspinall Go 25 Minutes?

• Cormier and Aspinall discuss the unknown of Aspinall in a five-round fight, with Cormier suggesting other fighters might see this as a small window before Aspinall becomes even more formidable.
  • “We don't know what 25 minutes with Tom Aspinall looks like. ... So it’s right now the time to be fighting Tom Aspinall, before you get that experience?” (Host, 15:36)
  • Aspinall counters: “Everyone’s got this assumption that I train for two-minute fights. ... That is so far from the truth.” (Aspinall, 16:34)

9. Strategy and Pacing for the Championship Rounds

• Aspinall states that he purposely paces himself, always holding back for deeper rounds:
  • “I never start, honestly, I promise you now, I never. I'm going full speed in my fights. Never.” (Aspinall, 17:49)
  • “My Dad says ... just move around, just enjoy it. Just take your time. And that's what I do every single time.” (Aspinall, 17:57)

10. On Potential Stardom and the Future

• Cormier speculates about the impact if Aspinall continues to dominate:
  • “Everybody wants the heavyweight champion to be like Mike Tyson was. And that's the type of air you would start to live in if you go through this fight in that way.” (Host, 18:50)
• Aspinall remains focused:
  • “I never predict what’s going to happen after my fight. So we'll find out on Sunday.” (Aspinall, 19:01)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On his aspirations and vision:

  “You envision yourself as being the champion of the world.”
  — Tom Aspinall (04:20)

• On fighting Gane:

  “I didn't exactly get given a choice ... The only guy that they offered me was Gane, so obviously I take it.”
  — Tom Aspinall (07:11–07:32)

• On media narratives:

  “These media people are crazy, aren't they? ... People get a narrative and they just run with it.”
  — Tom Aspinall (08:17)

• On respecting Gane:

  “Cyril's really, really good. And I've prepared for him accordingly.”
  — Tom Aspinall (10:32)

• On power:

  “If you hit somebody square in their face, they're gonna fall.”
  — Host referencing Aspinall’s belief (14:28–14:31)
  “Yes.”
  — Tom Aspinall (14:33)

• On preparedness and pacing:

  “I never start... I'm going full speed in my fights. Never.”
  — Tom Aspinall (17:49)

• On focus and not looking ahead:

  “I never predict what's going to happen after my fight.”
  — Tom Aspinall (19:01)

• Playful banter about Cormier as a hypothetical opponent:

  “I think you might have beat me up bad.”
  — Tom Aspinall (20:20)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Aspinall’s attitude towards the championship: 04:20–04:35
• Growth during time off: 05:44–06:11
• Why the Gane fight makes sense: 07:11–07:32
• On Gane’s legitimate threat and MMA “narratives”: 08:17–08:44
• Judging and MMA officiating woes: 09:03–09:44
• Quick loss to Jon Jones and Gane’s reputation: 10:10–10:32
• Warning to Gane NOT to “force engagement”: 13:52–14:28
• Aspinall’s experience with knockouts and his self-awareness: 14:56–15:36
• Discussion of heavyweights and 25-minute fights: 15:36–16:26
• On pacing and patience in long fights: 17:49–18:17
• Speculating on stardom if Aspinall dominates: 18:48–19:10
• Joking about Cormier as an opponent: 20:09–20:22

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Tone & Atmosphere

Throughout, the tone is candid, respectful, and filled with mutual admiration between two elite heavyweights. Aspinall is humble yet confident, countering outside narratives with calm logic and self-awareness. The banter is warm, especially around hypothetical matchups with Cormier, and the entire conversation is steeped in genuine enthusiasm for the intricacies of heavyweight MMA.

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This summary offers a comprehensive look at the episode’s content, ensuring listeners and non-listeners alike can engage with the thoughtful analysis and personality on display.

Transcript

[Tom Aspinall]

This is an I heart podcast.

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[Tom Aspinall]

Pretty good. Pretty good.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host]

It's nice, huh?

[Tom Aspinall]

I mean, that's what we want to do in it. We want to win the. I think when you start off in this sport, you get the gloves on, you envision yourself as being the champion of the world. Yeah, well, at least I did. Yeah, I did. I can't speak for everybody. I know some people just want to try it, have a fight or whatever, but for me, I wanted to be.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host]

There best when you, when you won the interim title, you could tell how much that meant to you, right? But.

[Tom Aspinall]

Yeah, but I don't know, for me, it wasn't so much the interim title. I mean, obviously that's a, That's a big achievement in itself. It was the fact that I wasn't ready for that fight. I was fighting. Oh, she's got the coffees. Yeah, I was fighting, sir. Thank you very much. I was fighting Sergey Pavlovich, who was knocking everybody out at the time.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host]

He was.

[Tom Aspinall]

And usually when I'm, I'm like, very regimented with my training, with my lifestyle, everything's like, geared toward, you know. You know, it's like everything from the last 10 weeks plus of my life has been geared towards Saturday night. Whereas with that fight in particular, I was not in shape.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host]

You just knew you had to get him out of there.

[Tom Aspinall]

Yeah, I just had to get him out of there.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host]

That was not worked out. And then you. You beat Curtis Blaze and then you just wait, right? You've had to wait so long. Like, I know, I don't want to talk about why you're waiting, right? We're past all that. But the time off, like, could you look back on it now and see any positive and just kind of refreshing yourself, having a clear mind to just truly get ready for the challenge ahead of you now? But most times you don't get time right. So when you do get it, you gotta kind of appreciate it.

[Tom Aspinall]

No, I appreciate I've got a lot better in the year off because when you're training for a fight, you're training basically to get your body ready for that fight. You're training for one guy, one. Whereas I was like training just to. I was in the gym every day, twice a day. I was in the gym, just improving, getting better, working on things. I had teammates fighting, I was helping them out and stuff, so it was nice to. To not put my body through that all the time. But I've improved a lot, I think.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host]

How, how frequent, frequently. Would you like to fight now, though, considering Merab is about to fight for the fourth time? Mehrab is defending his title for the fourth time this year. That's absolutely crazy.

[Tom Aspinall]

What's the maximum you fought in a year? How many times?

[Interviewer / Podcast Host]

Three, max. One year I fought Gustafson Jones and Rumble Johnson, and I was like, yeah, I need nine months off.

[Tom Aspinall]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think three. Three's good. Three's good, I think. Yeah, yeah, three's perfect.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host]

So you're fighting Cyril Gon this weekend?

[Tom Aspinall]

Yep.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host]

Heavyweight championship.

[Tom Aspinall]

Finally.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host]

Finally. Abro. You know what was crazy? I chill and I chill and I were messy, right? So we like to, like, start. But we do tv. That's what we do. But I said, if I'm Tom Aspinall, I'm not fighting him. Because that was a time where you were, like, in the crowd waiting to fight him, and he kind of was like, I'm not really doing that. Did you ever think, like, yo, maybe I should make this dude wait, go fight somebody else, you know? Cause you're the man now. It's crazy how the shoe is on the other foot. Right. But you right away.

[Tom Aspinall]

Yeah, but I didn't exactly get given a choice, so.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host]

Oh, it was only option.

[Tom Aspinall]

Well, who else is there to fight? I already beat Volkov in the first round.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Tom Aspinall]

Almeida was already matched with Volkov. They didn't want to do Almeida, to be honest. Yeah. So Ciro Gan's the number one contender. Also, Volkov was coming off a loss to Gan.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Tom Aspinall]

Almeida just fought Spivak, who's way down in the rankings.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host]

Yep. And then Almeida got beat by Blades.

[Tom Aspinall]

Yeah. Yeah. So it looks a little bit weird. So the only guy that they offered me was was Gan, so obviously I take it.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host]

So you find Cyril. Right. Big time fight. I just saw something. You said you think it's weird how people are writing off Cirogne. And for me, that was awesome to see, because when I look at the fight, right, I see a guy that can actually move with you. I see a guy that's been in there with power threats before. Francis Ngannou, Derrick Lewis, so many others. I also see a guy that's been five rounds because of all those things. When you're breaking down the fight, it would. Everything would say it should be competitive. Why though, are people just saying he can't go with you?

[Tom Aspinall]

These media people are crazy, aren't they? You don't think, like, people get a narrative and they just run with it. It's crazy. But listen, I. I think something that I don't get much credit for is I think a lot of people see my style. They see I move fast. They see I got power and stuff. They think, oh, he's just a big, strong, athletic guy. My fight IQ is really, really high and I don't think I get a lot of credit for it. So I know if what I'm looking at is good or not good. And I know that Sorgan's good.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host]

He's very good.

[Tom Aspinall]

He's really good. And I think the fact that he won his fight against Volkov.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host]

But did you think he lost that fight?

[Tom Aspinall]

I did think he lost the fight.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host]

So many people thought he lost that fight.

[Tom Aspinall]

Yeah, I did. I'm not a judge, though, so maybe there's some things that judges can see that I don't see, but bad.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host]

Did you see last weekend. Did you watch any from Vancouver?

[Tom Aspinall]

No.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host]

That's a horrible. Yo, they be. They be messing up the decisions constantly. Did you see what happened with the. The referee? One dude got hit low in the nuts.

[Tom Aspinall]

No, I didn't see it.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host]

Oh, Tommy should have saw it. Tom what's the big guy's name? The big. He's one of the big. The best referees in the game.

[Tom Aspinall]

He done, done Merglios.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host]

Dan Mirliata, bro. Dan Miragliotta is watching a fight. A guy gets dropped. He's beating. I don't know who it was. He's beating him. Mirgliotta stops the fight with three seconds left in the round. The guy celebrates, runs to his corner, thinks the fight over, and Dan goes. We're still fighting. I thought I heard the whistle.

[Tom Aspinall]

Oh, no way.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host]

I swear to God, bro. And that happened. So you can't really get if a decision is close, even questionable, when stuff like that still happens inside the octagon, you know, so, like, I get it, the frustration, but he's the guy that earns the title fight, so people should not be looking at it. And also it's the Jon Jones thing, I think the. That vision. Right. Biggest moment of his career. They saw him get submitted in that way.

[Tom Aspinall]

Yeah, I mean, it was quick. I think when you lose like that, it kind of sticks around. But listen, man, Cyril's really good. You know, it's like sometimes you show up and you. You just don't have a good night. And I think that was one of those nights for him. For whatever reason, maybe Jon Jones is the best ever. Maybe he was feeling sick that day. You know, there's some stuff that can go on that we don't know about, but for whatever reason, that night in particular, he wasn't very good. Does that mean he's not very good overall?

[Interviewer / Podcast Host]

No.

[Tom Aspinall]

Silogram's really, really good. And I've prepared for him accordingly.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host]

And that was refreshing to hear you say that because not people are trying to spin a completely different narrative.

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[Tom Aspinall]

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[Interviewer / Podcast Host]

Massachusetts do you expect him to be a little bit more engaging being that is going to be probably his last opportunity at a heavyweight title fight, right? He fought for the interim title and he fought for the undisputed title twice. This could be his last chance. Or do you expect that same point in kind of point fighting type of fight early to try to drag it into the later rounds?

[Tom Aspinall]

I think I've got him at his best because he's never he's got a few things now that he's going to be better than before. He's been through those big fights. He's got them losses. No doubt. He's learned from them losses. He's got the experience. He knows what it's like, to fight under pressure. And this is last chance, man. He's not going to get a fourth goal. Like, this is his third goal. So I'm expecting the best version of him. If he's more engaging from a technical standpoint, that evens the odds up a lot more on my part. So I wouldn't. If I was him, I wouldn't. I wouldn't force the engagement.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host]

Because you said if you hit somebody square in their face, they're gonna fall.

[Tom Aspinall]

Yeah.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host]

You believe in your power like that?

[Tom Aspinall]

Yes.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host]

You know, I see a great fight. I think it's gonna be a tremendous fight. I was surprised at how easily you went through Curtis Blades. Like, were you surprised at all? Like, the first fight? Right. You guys, you were. You respected him more the first time. Cause you were kind of staying back a little bit. That second time you just went through him. Like, what made you just attack him in that way?

[Tom Aspinall]

You know what? It's really weird. I'm sure you can relate to this because it's probably happened to you. Every time I knock somebody out, I just can't believe that I've knocked him out. I'm like, oh, you fell over with that. Like, from that. You fell over. So weird. Yeah, I just. I don't know. That's what. It's not that I believe in my power and I'm like, you know, sticking my chest out there and be like, oh, I'm the strongest puncher ever. It's that I have proof of that if I hit somebody. Like, statistics have told me that if I hit somebody, they're gonna go over. So, like, the last fight with Blades Paulowicz is the same. Spivak's the same. Guys like that. Like, I've. I've hit him and I've been like, oh, like you're unconscious. Yeah. I can't believe it. Yeah.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host]

Is this the right time to fight Tom Aspinall? I. I kind of liken it to this, right? This is my. This is my chart. Francis Ngannou could not fight 25 minutes until he went and fought Stipe Miocic for 25 minutes. And he exhausted himself. Then he was able to fight 25 minutes. We don't know what 25 minutes with Tom Aspinall looks like. So the unknown should give guys confidence that right now is the time to fight you in that long fight. Jon Jones, I think he made a huge mistake by not fighting you now, because what if you go 25 minutes and you still win, but you understand that fatigue, because it is a Different fatigue. Once you do it once though, it'll become like, yes. So it's right now the time to be fighting Tom Aspinall, before you get that experience.

[Tom Aspinall]

It's, it's a great outlook, I think. I like, I like it.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host]

But that, that's when people say, would you have fought time? I go now I would have. Because I don't know what he would look like later. When you know what he looks like later.

[Tom Aspinall]

No, I know what you're saying, but on the flip side of that, as someone, myself who watches a lot of footage, like for example, Cyril Gan, there's rounds and rounds of rounds where you can watch him, see what his patterns are. See what.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Tom Aspinall]

See what he's good at, not good at. With me, 80 of that, plus you can't see, you don't know what to do. No one's got any idea. No. Everyone's got this assumption that I train for two minute fights. Like that is so far from the truth that it's unbelievable. So there's this notion again in the media where people are like, if Tom goes past two minutes, Cyril wins.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host]

Yeah, but that's insane.

[Tom Aspinall]

But that's what people say every time.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host]

You could never think that a heavyweight champion is going to get tired around.

[Tom Aspinall]

But that's what people think. So if people do think that, that's fantastic for me.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host]

So what does round 2, 3, 4 and 5 look like this weekend? Do you, as a guy that starts fast and that can finish fights, if it starts to turn a little bit to where he's like lasting, they kind of pull back and go, okay, leave some in the tank. Because I think that's the difference in fighting 25 minutes. I did it nine times. It's like you can't fight as hard for as long unless you're marab.

[Tom Aspinall]

Well, he's insane.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host]

He's insane, right? He's like, not everybody else can do that.

[Tom Aspinall]

I never start, honestly, I promise you now, I never. I'm going full speed in my fights. Never.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host]

You're not.

[Tom Aspinall]

I'm always thinking, my dad says something to me, last thing he says, just move around, just enjoy it. Just take your time. And that's what I do every single time. I'm not going full speed at all. I'm far from it. So every time I'm thinking, you know, I gotta hold some back because we're gonna go five rounds. Yeah, I've got that in my, in my mind all the time. So we'll find out.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host]

I don't know, man, I can't Wait, listen. This is supposed to be the hardest fight of your career, but if it isn't, holy shit. Are you prepared for what your life will look like after Saturday if it isn't? Because by all accounts, this should be the hard one. But if you wipe this dude out, I mean, they're going to put a rocket ship on your back and send you to the moon. Seriously.

[Tom Aspinall]

I don't know. I've not really thought that far ahead, bro.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host]

Everybody wants a heavyweight. Everybody wants the heavyweight champion to be like Mike Tyson was. And that's the type of air you would start to live in if you go through this fight in that way.

[Tom Aspinall]

Good. Well, let's see, let's see. On Saturday, I don't know. I never. I never predict what's going to happen after my fight. So we'll find out on. On Sunday when Sunday morning rocks around. We'll see.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host]

You're gonna be making a lot of. If you get through this one clean and impressive, you're gonna make a boatload of money. You're going to start loaning me money? Like, come on, you going to start loading me money? At this point, if he continues to do what he does, you've got about.

[Tom Aspinall]

Five jobs, you've got about. How many. How many title fights have you had?

[Interviewer / Podcast Host]

You must have loads of brother doing all right. Say too much, guys. Tom Aspinall defends his UFC heavyweight championship this weekend against Sirogon in the main event at UFC 321. Make sure you hit the buy button at ESPN pay per view because Tom's still collecting those checks right now. In January, that stuff changes, but right now, Tom's still collecting those checks. Hit that buy button. Watch the baddest man on the planet as he competes to try to become a world. To try to defend his world championship on Saturday. Until next time, like, subscribe and tell your friends about my YouTube channel. I got guys like Tom Aspinall checking in with me. Hey, Tom. Also, hey, man, thanks for giving me props about the fight. Even though you're kind of just kind of polishing me up a little bit when you go, oh, D.C. would have been a problem if we fought.

[Tom Aspinall]

I told you that years ago.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host]

Yeah, I know you did. But still, to say you were just kind of polishing me up and I like, every now and again, somebody got to give the big boy some love, you know? Thank you to.

[Tom Aspinall]

It's the truth.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Tom Aspinall]

I think you might have beat me up bad.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host]

No, I would. Hey, let me tell you something. I'd have been shooting from halfway across the octagon the moment they said fight. Guys, make sure you watch time this week and until next time, peace.

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[Interviewer / Podcast Host]

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[Tom Aspinall]

This is an iHeart podcast.