← The Herd with Colin Cowherd
The Herd with Colin Cowherd
Go Low - Scottie is the best, Where is Jordan's game, Weekend's best bets
00:57:07
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- [00:00]
Jeremy Hobson
You're listening to an iHeart podcast.
- [00:05]
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- [01:17]
Kelvin Washington
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- [02:16]
Jeremy Hobson
We live in a divided country, and our media couldn't be more polarizing. That's why we started the Middle with Jeremy Hobson. It's about bringing voices not from the extremes, but from the vast middle into the national conversation. Each week we hear from ordinary Americans from all over the country. And when you subscribe to the Middle, you also get an episode each week called One Thing Trump did that focuses on just one item from the avalanche of news. Listen to the Middle with Jeremy Hobson on the IHEARTRADIO app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [02:47]
Colin Cowherd
The Volume. What is going on everybody? How are we doing? Hopefully you are enjoying this day wherever you may be and living well in the real world. Today we're going to take a day off from football, take a deep breath and do a little go low podcast. React to Scotty Scheffler's dominant win. If that was a football game, it'd be like winning 50 to 10. He wins by eight strokes. At one point in time he was up double digits. Just an absolute butt whooping. And we'll dive into some other stuff. There were some comments made by a few players in regards to the signature events. There's one this week at the Philly Cricket Club. Some thoughts on live. Their ratings feel like they're getting worse but Bryson DeChambeau one in Korea we had a pretty major injury to, you know, a pretty big name player. And we will also answer some of your questions from Olopod, which is the Instagram account which I answer golf questions from. Obviously we do a big one for football and life and just everyday stuff. On my, on my Instagram account I made a separate one, Olopod, which I do golf stuff and it's the easiest way to get involved on this show which is you know obviously golf centric operation when we do a little go low. So we got, we got the PGA Championship right around the corner which as Jordan called it Rory McElroy Country Club which is next week. So prepare to get ready because I'm really excited. Quail Hollow Rory Scotty Bryson feels like a three horse race right now. So we will dive deep into that next week because I love gambling on the majors. Nothing is better and nothing I look forward to non football when it comes to gambling than than the four majors. So before we dive in to Scotty Scheffler, I do need to tell you about my friends, my partners in the official ticketing app of this podcast. Last night I was at the DraftKings BET Gala put on by Dave Portnoy and I was hanging out with Mike Commodore. You know he actually was a guest on this podcast last summer. The hockey player, incredible storyteller. And we were watching some playoff hockey and he was just telling me about the best arenas to see a game. There is nothing like playoff hockey. I mean the intensity of it. I kept telling I'm not even a hockey guy and I am glued to the playoffs, obviously the NBA playoffs. I mean if you live in New York area and you want to see your Knicks at minimum, they're going to be one one coming home. So any game you want to go to, playoff game, we got baseball in full swing right now. We have obviously concert season is going, so if you want to go see some live music, get out of the house, go do something fun, go enjoy yourself, have a brewski, have a cocktail, sing some songs, dance a little bit with a loved one, with a child, with your cousin, with your mother or father, go have a good time and do it on us. So take the guesswork out of buying tickets with GameTime. Download the GameTime app, create an account, use the code JOHN for $20 off your first purchase terms apply again, create an account and redeem the code Johan for $20 off. Down the Gametime app today, last minute tickets, lowest price is guaranteed. Okay. Last week I was looking at the field, it was not good relative to signature events and majors, when Jordan spieth, at essentially 20 to 1 is the second betting favorite to win a golf tournament in 2025, that that tells you everything you need to know. And my logic was pretty simple. One, if you're an elite competitor, if you're an elite player and things don't go your way, whether you're playing poorly or whether you're like Scotty, you're trying to make some raviolis and you cut your hand and it kind of derails the early part of your season now, relative to basically every other player in the world Besides like Rory McElroy, he has had a very successful start to the season. He just hadn't won and he's coming off a year where it felt like he won 25 times. So it's like I looked at it and went, well, he's playing a home game. He grew up going to this tournament. Now it's changed courses, but it means a lot to him, it means a lot to his family and as a competitor when it does feel because while he's the number one player in the world, and I think as of this week, it's now gone on to the third longest streak in the history of number ones. Obviously Tiger holds it basically for like a decade. Greg Norman is second and now Scotty is third for the longest running time as the number one player in the world. But in 2025, Rory has played better than Scotty and going into the second major of the year, where Rory is now on DraftKings has the same odds as Scotty Scheffler. I mean, think about the masters. Scotty was 3 to 1 and Rory was like 6 or 7 to 1. And now I looked yesterday, they're both 5 to 1. And that feels right now this is a course like Augusta with Scotty that is very Advantageous for Rory McElroy's game. He has had a lot of success there. But like based on the way they've played this year beside last week, like if you want to make Rory McElroy the favorite, I don't blame you. But I went. You know what I do believe when it's all said and done, Scotty will be considered one of the greatest American players to ever play golf. I think he will have, I don't know if he will win the career Grand Slam but he is going to win more majors than just win the Masters. And he's probably not one done winning the Masters. If I had to guess right now over under Scotty majors I'd say around six. Like he, he is clearly one of the greatest talents we've ever seen. And last week was like, I think Scotty gets it done. Now did I believe that he would annihilate the field? At one point in time it was, I remember texting someone, he was on like hole 12. It was Thursday. He had played 14 holes in a golf tournament. You have to play 72. He was like minus 250 to win the golf tournament. By the end of Friday he was minus 1200 to win the golf tournament. That's unheard of. It's absurd. He annihilated everyone. And sometimes I think, and this is, I've taken the tactic and the, the I guess the outlook when gambling, like don't, don't out think the room here. Don't try to hit some 80 to one guy bet Rory bet Bryson, bet Scotty. And that is what I plan on doing at the PGA Championship. And listen, no, I would say group that covers a sport can try to be more hipster. Like watch out for the Thunder. They're going to roll to the championship. Like are we sure their second best player weighs like 110 pounds. They're playing Nicole Jokic. I don't know, one of the greatest basketball players in the history of the sport. Honestly, I've been a die hard sports fan for 30 plus years. He's easily one of the greatest players I've ever seen. Should it be that shocking that in game one he had 42 points, 20 rebounds and six assists and they won. They have the best player on their team. Not on the Thunder. It's like well, Shea's going to win the MVP. Michael Jordan didn't always win the MVP. LeBron had a stretch in his prime where he didn't always win the mvp. It was obvious to anyone with a working brain who the best player was. And listen, betting on golf tournaments is a lot different than betting on a basketball game or a football game. When there are only two teams, right? One has to win, one has to lose. You are betting against an entire field and all it takes is some random dude in that field to have a career day. Some guys did and they didn't even get close. Scottie Scheffler essentially averaged 8 under par for four straight rounds. That is absurd. Jordan Spieth, who I had a little parlay. I took Scotty to win and I took Jordan to top 10. It was not looking good. It was not going to hit. And then the guy went nuclear on Sunday and shot nine under par. Scotty Scheffler averaged eight under par. So it's like he went nuts. And he shot nine under par for one day, lowest round of the day, and got in the top five, which was a really impressive day for Jordan. What Scotty just did last weekend is what Nicole Jokic does, is what Patrick Mahomes, Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson do. They are better than everybody else. And it's what is, I think a big reason right now. The PGA ratings are, are like a rocket ship. This last week with Scotty was up 66% based on last year. The previous week with Justin Thomas winning at the RBC was up I think like 25, 30%. Obviously the Masters was one of the most watched masters in like a long time since Tiger Woods. This isn't a complicated formula. Get the best star players to win. And in a hard part in golf, like you're not guaranteed that. And the cool part about golf is like you don't necessarily need it to be Scotty versus Rory. It can be Rory versus me and you. It can be Justin Thomas versus Andrew Novak. No shade. It can be Scottie Scheffler verse Taylor Pendra. It can be some of these random matchups. As long as you have the star the tour. It wasn't always Tiger woods against Ernie Ells or Tiger woods against Padraic Harrington. Sometimes it would be Tiger woods against some guy that you would never really hear about again. And you know what? As long as it was Tiger woods verse fill in the blank, it works. This is a star driven sport. And right now I think we have three needle movers. Scotty, clearly Rory, Scotty and Bryson. And these guys are playing it. Bryson just won last weekend. I think Rory Is a lot of momentum coming into the Philly Cricket Club. I don't know how much he's, you know, gonna care this week in terms of just getting his game dialed in for the following week. Much shorter course than Quail Hollow, but regardless, this sport is dependent on its stars. Always has been, always will be. It's an individual sport from Arnold Palmer to Jack to Greg Norman to, to guys like John Daly and Phil Mickelson through Tiger woods to this crew now. And I think the tour is pretty lucky that their most famous and best players are dominating. And I was talking to someone about this the other day, my buddy Scotty Raver, really good golfer. I was like, listen, this live thing is failing. It is dying on the vine. No one is watching. People have reported that the, that, you know, the funding mechanism, as essentially said, like, you guys got to start making money or we're going to stop cutting checks. And some of these contracts are coming up and it's like, are they going to renew some of these guys for like $100 million, $150 million, $50 million? No chance. This thing is going to die, right? If they are truly like watching the expenses and the profits and trying to go, is this going to work? It's not. Listen, I love golf as much as most die hard golf people. It is an unwatchable product. But Bryson is really important and for the PGA Tour, if they can get him back, I think that would be a game changer. Because right now you got Scottie Scheffler in the prime of his career. You got Rory McIlroy in the middle of his second prime. And clearly Bryson is just an elite player that, you know, is just a needle moving, interesting guy to watch play. But I think last week just wasn't that complicated. Just like sometimes basketball isn't that complicated. Who has the best player? Like, that's like, well, they go 10 deep, they got these great out of bounds plays. It's like, yeah, I got Nicole Jokic, I got Steph Curry, I got Anthony Edwards. And you don't, you know, Scotty Scheffler's in this field and Rory McElroy, Xander Schoffle, Colin Morikawa, Bryson Dechambeau or not. So, yeah, his odds are a little lower than three to one. They should be like minus 110. And they were really quick after about nine holes. So congrats to Scotty Scheffler. Very cool moment watching him get choked up. His family's all there, obviously. His kids there, his sister. He made his debut 11 years ago as a high school kid in the tournament, and he finished T25. So he's just an awesome player. Jordan Spieth, it's always fun. Like, as someone, I think I said last week that, you know, I don't know if he's a Ryder cup guy. He definitely still has the opportunity to earn that in more weeks. I'm not putting that much stock again into a field that's really shitty to finish fourth. But, you know, he is just a very, very entertaining player to watch. And he's probably the easiest guy on PGA Tour to root for. But he had a comment that I kind of made me laugh. He's like, it wasn't that long ago that I was definitely better than him. Speaking of Scotty, because they played together in the first two rounds, and Scotty obliterated him. And now I'm definitely not. And it got me thinking, like, now, Jordan, it's actually been a little while since you were definitely better than him. It's been like four plus years. We're going on. We're headed toward, like, 60 months. This wasn't like, you know, two years I was better than the guy. Like, you know, seven months ago, I was better than the guy. This guy has been dramatically better than you for a while now. And I don't blame Jordan for, you know, trying to justify, like, you know, once upon a time. Once upon a time, like. Like last decade. But it's always fun to see Jordan get rolling. And I think clearly Keegan Bradley, who actually is hosting a Ryder cup dinner in Philadelphia, which I would imagine Jordan is invited to, would love to see him play well, because we know the pairing of him and Justin, and now Justin is essentially a lock for the team. I think he would love to bring him on the team, but he's going to have to earn it. And more showings like that, like, I like Jordan speed this week, so more showings like that, it would be really important. Another thing, in regards to this dinner, he has invited Bryson DeChambeauty and Brooks Koepka to the dinner in Philadelphia. So one thing's clear. A couple years ago, none of the live guys played in the Ryder Cup. Remember John Rahm right after the Ryder Cup? It wasn't right after, but within a month or two, had signed with Lyft, but he had waited till he played in that Ryder cup to make that decision because clearly it means a lot to him. That's out the window. All these. Jon Rahm is playing in the Ryder Cup. Bryson DeChambeau is playing in the Ryder Cup. Koepka, I would say, is up in the air, but he has a couple good majors. Based on the way our team looks, he's probably going to be in the Ryder Cup. And Sergio Garcia, if he continues to have or, like, has a good major season, would definitely be a Ryder cup option. Now, the European team is pretty deep, but that's the right move. Like, no one cares what tour you're on. Bryson DeChambeau should be on all the American teams. And if Koepka or Dustin Johnson or whoever, whichever one of these guys is playing well, they should be on the team as well. And I would say next year when the President's cup happens, I don't give a shit what the rules are. Cam Smith, if he's playing well enough, should be on the President's Cup. This Mark Leishman, if he's playing well enough, should be on the President's Cup. Obviously, Bryson should be on the American team, but, yeah. So I do think the. The Ryder cup situation is going to be more enjoyable because the live guys are going to be invited to the party where they were not a couple years ago. I also got me thinking because Eric Van Royen, who finished second in and had, I mean, probably one of the better weeks of his career, he just happened to be playing with Scottie Scheffler, who was unconscious. I mean, it was. It was honestly watching Scotty Scheffler last week look like anyone who's ever played with a really, really good golfer, like a scratch or a veteran scratch or a college golfer who plays a course a lot, so is very used to it. And if you just play with them, it's like, are they even trying? And it's just like, par, par, birdie, birdie, eagle, par, birdie. Like, it just. They never even come close to screwing up. It didn't even look like Scottie Scheffler broke a sweat. Erik Van Royen, who played unreal, never had a chance, but basically earned his way into the signature event this week and was asked about whether he liked the way this setup was. And he's like, honestly, I don't. Not that I'm not proud of playing well and getting involved, but the best tournaments do not have small fields. The best tournaments have 150 plus guys. And I understand golf's in this weird spot where they want to funnel. They basically want legal money laundering, right? They want to launder money legally to their. It's probably an oxymoron, but to their best players. And if you have 150 man tournament and half the field gets cut and six of your top 20 players don't play well, they don't make any money. And Van Royn essentially said like the best part about golf is it's the ultimate meritocracy. And if you don't play well, you don't make any money. And if you play great, you earn whatever spot that you get on the leaderboard. And I'm in complete agreement. These smaller field no cut events stink. They are just not that interesting. One problem with live. Well, they got a lot of problems. I mean their biggest problem is like none of it matters. Part of winning a tournament is like, well, these are the last 50 guys that won this tournament. This tournament has been around for 75 years. There's a lot of history, right? Anyone who's ever been to a club or a country club, I remember I went to, I played, was it Phoenix Country Club? It actually used to hold the Phoenix Open. Before I forget what year they came to the TPC might have been like late 80s. So basically from the 40s, the 50s, the 60s, you walk in to the locker room, there's pictures of Arnold Palmer, of Jack Nicklaus, of Lee Trevino, Johnny Miller and all these guys that had played in this tournament. There was legitimate history behind the tournament, behind, behind the course. And now I play at TPC for 30 plus years. Whether it's Brooks Koepka, whether it's Rickie Fowler, whether it's Tiger woods, hole in one, whether it's, you know, just all Scotty Scheffler winning his first big tournament there. There's a lot of history there and that really matters. And Liv doesn't have that. But they don't have a cut. So like if you're in the tournament, you're guaranteed to finish in part of golf. It's what makes major, especially you know, the US Open, the bridge. Like it's hard to make the cut and if you have like a shitty three hole stretch on Thursday or Friday, you're gone. And then you make no money. Like you make no money, right? In basketball, in the NBA. I was, I was at this barstool party last night at the DraftKings sportsbook down the street from my house. And I was talking to Mike Commodore. I mentioned this earlier, but he played in the NHL for a long time. He's the best. He invited me to play golf with him here soon. He's a golf junkie. And we were just talking how much hockey players make. And he's like, I was like, I saw Some salaries, it doesn't feel like your highest paid players make that much relative to basketball or baseball. He's like, I think the highest paid player in the league makes $18 million. And the Knicks Celtics series was on right next to it. I'm like, you know what's crazy is there's a chance that every dude on the floor right now makes more than $18 million. And there's a chance. I mean, there's not a chance. Five, six guys on that court make 35 to 40 plus. And during the season, whether you're playing or whether you're not playing, whether you shatter your leg, whether you're doing load management, whether you're averaging 40 or whether you're averaging five points, hell, I saw Bradley Beal play basketball this year. I have never seen a guy in a professional event, in a live event, try less hard. He's making $50 million. So whether he tries really hard, scores a lot of points, whether he doesn't try at all, he's getting paid. In golf, if you, even if you try your hardest and you do not play well, you do not make any money. Now technically you still make money from your sponsors. But like Billy Horschel, he is injured. And unlike a baseball player or basketball player, if I get injured, even in football, if you're making $20 million and I go on IR for eight games, I still get a percentage of my salary. Now that might be 50%, but I still get paid for being injured as a golfer. Billy Ho, Philly Cricket Club. This tournament doesn't pay him any money. The PGA Championship next week doesn't pay him any money. He doesn't make any money from playing golf. Now he's signed. I'm sure he has lucrative sponsors, so he still has money coming in. But that would be the case for any professional athlete for their like if whether Patrick Mahomes plays well or not, he. Let's say he has the worst year of his career. That all state money, that Oakley money, all that money still rolls in on top of the Kansas City chief salary. And I think the thing in golf, like you see Billy Horschel, he gets hip surgery, knock on wood. But like, what if that derails his career? What if he's never the same after this hip injury? Now you would think with modern medicine and the ability to rehab and improve, and Billy Ho is clearly a pretty big workout guy, should be fine, but you never know. It's not like Billy Horschel is 22 years old and it's just a risk in this sport, like, there are a lot of variables that can go really bad really fast. I mean, we're seeing with Max home, he's just his game all of a sudden, just what the hell happened? And in fairness to him, it's like golf, I don't know. It's just you make a little tweak here, tweak there, and things just get off the rails. I think it's one of the most relatable things about the sport. Any human that plays, whether you're a plus five or whether you're a 20 handicap, you can, on one individual shot, you can hit the best shot of the day. You can hit the best shot of the day that looks exactly like Tiger woods shot from 150 yards. You can knock it five feet. You also can hit a ball three holes over out of bounds at any given moment. And so can these guys. And I just think that the cool part about pro golf, especially, I mean specifically the PGA Tour, but I would say the European Tour as well, the Korn Ferry Tour, is you have to play well on Thursday and Friday to continue playing to make money on Saturday and Sunday. And then like the competition of Saturday and Sunday, typically you are going to have high level famous guys playing well, maybe not all of them, but the PGA Championship in a week. I would be stunned, I mean floored, if two of the three guys, Rory, Bryson and Scotty, aren't heavily in the mix. And when I say heavily in the mix, I expect one of those three guys to win. And I'd be stunned if the other guy isn't top three or four in the tournament. It wouldn't shock me if all three of them are in the top 10, but there's no guarantee. One of them could just have the worst week of his Life and shoot 76 on a Thursday and miss the cut. It's possible. And while they're all rich and whether they get a check or don't, it's not going to change their life at all. They don't get paid that week. Neither does a caddy. That's why this Philly Cricket club this week, I mean, it's, it's interesting, but to me, I'm interested to see the golf course. I don't necessarily care about the results. You know, I mean, this is the problem with these signature events. It's like I don't even feel like they matter. I mean, they matter for the distribution for these guys to get paid, but just in terms of smaller field. It has been like this for the last couple years. Since they created these, they just don't do that much for me. I was more interested to watch Can Scottie Scheffler beat 150 guys? Then like, is Roy McElroy going to make two and a half million dollars finishing second at the Signature Event? I just, it does not matter to me. So I listen, I'm going to gamble on this because that's what we do. The PGA Tour has never played here. I think the stat is that this is the oldest country club in America. I think it was like 1848 or something. So this course has been around for a long, long time. I did some flyovers on YouTube, I read a couple about it. They have done some redesigns and the course in which they play isn't the sequence. If me or you got the. Obviously you'd have to know a member. But we played this course, they kind of changed the sequencing of the course. It's not that long relative to tour standards at 7,100 yards. I read a couple articles that did some models on what is going to work at this course. Obviously Rory's near the top, but you know, Shane Lowry, Keegan, Bradley, Jordan, Spieth. I do like Brian Harmon. I do think a guy like him, he has to capitalize. He did two weeks ago at rbc. On courses that aren't that long, he's at a disadvantage playing Quail Hollow. He's not going to be able to compete there. Like Kevin Kisner was asked a couple of years ago, why do you play in some of these courses where you clearly have no chance? He's like, well, finishing 18th pays a lot. And I think the key is when you're a guy like that, you get four or five chances to take advantage of your skill set in this modern day world. And this is one of them, you know, And I think Shane Lowry, Keegan, Bradley, Jordan, Spieth. I'm going to do probably Brian Harmon instead of Keegan, but I'm going to do Jordan spieth the top 10, Lowry and Brian Harmon the top 20. I think it pays like 14 to 1. But it's. Listen, I think a lot of people like Patrick Cantlay this week. I can't bet on Patrick Hantley. Like I. If you told me like he's got a 50, 50 chance, I am more. I'm more likely to not gamble in a golf tournament than put any money on Patrick Hantley. I've gambled a lot on golf over the last three or four years. I don't think I've ever put One penny on that individual and I will have no problem never betting him. You can tell me he wins 10 times over the next five years, he ain't getting any of my money. I couldn't even imagine watching him play professional golf on a Saturday and Sunday beside a Ryder cup and rooting for him to win. So I also have seen so many times when people have picked him and he just like finishes 17th so I'm not touching him. Hard to make like. Does Rory bring it this week? He's been, you know, he was gone in Europe, then he did the media tour. I would imagine he kind of used this as a tune up. But if he were to win this week, which would be crazy, it'd be his third win of the year, I do think that his odds would go from five to one probably to like three to one next week. So if you do like Rory, the risk of him potentially playing really well this week, you probably want to bet him now for the PGA championship, the NBA 82 game grind is done and now the real fun begins. 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- [32:53]
Colin Cowherd
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Kelvin Washington
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- [34:58]
Jeremy Hobson
We live in a divided country. I am a lifelong Republican with all kinds of different people.
- [35:03]
Kelvin Washington
You know, I'm a mother, I'm a grandmother.
- [35:06]
Jeremy Hobson
That's why we started the Middle with Jeremy Hobson. It's about bringing voices not from the extremes, but from the vast middle into the national conversation.
- [35:14]
Colin Cowherd
Anna, I'm calling from Las Vegas.
- [35:17]
Jeremy Hobson
Each week we bring together an all star panel. Mark Cuban, so great to have you on the Middle. Thanks for having me.
- [35:22]
Colin Cowherd
Jeremy.
- [35:23]
Jeremy Hobson
Neil Degrasse Tyson, welcome to the Middle.
- [35:24]
Colin Cowherd
Thanks for having me.
- [35:25]
Jeremy Hobson
And hear from ordinary Americans from all over the country on the most important issues.
- [35:30]
Kelvin Washington
Hi, my name is Venkat.
- [35:32]
Colin Cowherd
I'm calling you from Atlanta, Georgia.
- [35:34]
Jeremy Hobson
And when you subscribe to the Middle, you also get an episode each week called One Thing Trump did that focuses on just one item from the avalanche of news.
- [35:42]
Colin Cowherd
We should be examining what our government spends its money on and are these jobs necessary and what are we doing doing here? But that doesn't seem to be what we're doing in this situation.
- [35:50]
Jeremy Hobson
Listen to the Middle with Jeremy Hobson on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [36:03]
Colin Cowherd
Let's do a couple mailbag questions @golopod. Atgolopod is the Instagram. Fire in those dms and get your question answered here on the show again. Golopod. This is from Davis. I'm 26 and I like to think I'm pretty good. I'm about a six handicap. However, I think the golfers in the five to eight handicap range are in golf purgatory. Good enough to shoot close to par, but bad enough to shoot 88 and hate yourself. I feel like it's going to be hard to break out of this range while working a job that demands a lot and only being able to play hit the range once or twice a week. Any tips how to work to scratch going forward? Well, you're, you're asking advice from someone that falls. I mean, I'm a four handicap right now in that category. I could go out tomorrow and shoot 74. I could also go out tomorrow and easily shoot 90. And you know what I've learned? Like, I'm never going to be a scratch golfer. I don't practice enough, I don't play enough, and I just don't have the mental stamina to focus enough even when I'm playing a lot on the golf course. And I'm cool with that. I'm going to enjoy myself and If I was to be a scratch when I gamble with my friends or with other people or. This week, my guy Mark invited me to play the member guest at Arizona Country Club. I'm fired up. I am such a better asset. And last, I've only played in one other member guest. I was the biggest disaster in the history of disaster. I was so bad, I was topping ball. I was an embarrassment. I really was. And my handicap at the time was like a three. It probably looked like I was a 20. I don't know if I was nervous. I don't know what was going on, but it was really, really ugly. So I need to bounce back. But there's not as much pressure. I mean, he's like a scratch, but he's really good and he can play to that number and he can break par. If I was a scratch, like, I would still have 90, maybe not 90, but like 82 in my back pocket. So when you're a 6 handicap and you can shoot 78 and maybe get a few birdies, like, you can make some money if you're not going to the PGA Tour. Here's the other thing. If you're working in a successful guy and you're like a five or six handicap, that, that travels, like, you could go play with like Justin Thomas and have a good time. I'm not even saying gambling with them. Like, you wouldn't embarrass yourself. I think the key to golf, if you like actually just want to do it socially for business, have a good time, is do it minimum, just get to that number. And then if you can stay, you're fine. You can play with anybody. Like, I'm good enough where I can play with scratch golfers and it'd be fun. Last week I played with a bunch of dudes that were probably like 15, 20, 25 handicaps. Had a good time. But I think if, if you do work really hard at it and get good, you do have to maintain that once your handicaps at a certain number, if you're going to play money games to anybody because all of a sudden you're a scratch. Like hard to make money if you're not playing all the time. So I'm going glass half full here. I think if you're like a five or six handicap, that's prime. That's prime real estate. Curious what your go to wedge is around the green. I remember being a kid when I started playing golf, my dad used to scream at me because. Right. You know this. My dad honestly wasn't a very good golfer at all. But he liked, you know, Jack Nicklaus and Nick Faldo and Greg Norman and old school golfers. Bump and run was huge, right? What you watch now, I mean, Phil really revolutionized the game. But all these guys that use 60 degrees around the, you know, the green, Tiger, the old school guys would bump and run everything. And I always wanted to have a 60 degree wedge around the green. And like most people, I'm not a great wedge player. So if you don't practice wedges a lot and you have a 60 degree, a 56 degree, your margin for error can be really slim. On a lot of shots where I do try to bump and run anything I can. So I have no problem pulling out either a 50 degree wedge, which is my gap wedge, or a pitching wedge if, you know, the gap wedge is easier to use if I'm in the rough around the green. If I have like an opening where there's no rough and I'm basically on the fairway, but I can see the pin, I will hit a pitching wedge, even a nine iron, right, and just keep the ball on the ground essentially like you know, and use, you know, a putter stroke and, and kind of use my, my front hand, my left hand on the grip and I grip it really hard so I don't break my wrists at all. But that's something that I've done a lot lately is tried to keep it on the ground more because you're just not good enough if you're not playing a lot to use a lob wedge, which good players can, no problem. All around the green. Let me throw another fun idea your way. Really appreciate how you take DMs the majors as love interest. The Masters. Your honeymoon. Always looked at fondly. More dialed up than any other time. If it happened all the time, it wouldn't be the same. But still beyond incredible. The pga. Your high school girlfriend. You say you love her, but more than likely you don't. Once you go to a steakhouse, you realize the movies isn't that good of a date night. The US Open. Your ex wife. Some absolutely incredible moments. But drives you crazy and plays jump rope with being too hard and awesome. The Open. Your wife top tier as the game should be played. You have. You have to wake up early. Endure some crappy weather sometimes. But ultimately it's the purest form of the game. I'm riding Robbie Mack this week. Lefty with great iron play. Strokes gain. Putting at Augusta is overrated as long as is above average. This was before the Masters. I Do like that there is. There's definitely something nostalgic about the Masters and I think there's something pure about the Open. I'm with you on the pga. It's by far the shittiest major. I'd even not even go high school girlfriend. I would just go, you know, your first true. I think the kids call it like situationship. You know, someone you're dating but you don't call your girlfriend. And ultimately it's going to end really bad. But it's really fun. Like that's kind of what the PGA is now. It's essentially a tournament that it's much closer to a normal event than it is in my opinion, to a major. Talk Ryder Cup. You're the captain. Who are your 12 picks from the U.S. let's say all 12 can be captain pick. Okay, I will go Scotty Scheffler. I will go Bryson DeChambeau. I will go Xander Schoffele. I will go Colin Morikawa. I will go Justin Thomas. And I will go 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. I will go Patrick Cantlay. So that's six then. I think it gets really, really challenging. I you know, let's go. USA Golf rankings. It's hard to do this off the cuff without. So I got Scotty, I got Xander, I got Morikawa, I got Justin Thomas. I appreciate Russell Henley. I you know, is he a lock? I know he won earlier this week or this year probably decent chance Bryson's on it. Windham Clark would not be a lock for me. Keegan Bradley said that he will not pick himself and I do think it's kind of impossible at the Ryder Cup. You know, Tiger was a President's playing captain. What that would have been like 2018 and that was badass. Maybe it was. Was it 19? Whenever it was it was sweet. I don't really think it's possible at the Ryder Cup. I just don't think our team's that good. Billy Horschel. Not available. Brian Harmon. He's not getting picked. Akshay? Probably not. Daniel Berger. I think we're going to lose Sam Burns. The gala has not been good. Nick Taylor's Canadian Finaus played like crap. Lucas Glover? Probably not Hoagie. I think we're in trouble. I mean you get through like six, seven names. No wonder I don't even think when's the last time Brooks Koepka played well. No wonder Keegan Bradley's bringing him to this dinner. We don't have that many options. Maybe Koepka just has to be on the team. I think it's going to be hard to get 12 guys, I really do. Now we got another three or four months of majors and guys to let the cream rise, but we got a long way to go. Let's say Tiger was born in 07 instead of 1975 and he's turning 18 this year. Crazy how 2007 was 18 years ago already. Jesus, that's insane. How many majors do you think he wins in his career against the current generation of players? Do you think the prevalence of social media, smartphones and cameras would enable his vices and have accelerated his downfall? I mean Tiger, it would be more difficult if his vices. There are a lot of famous people that run around a lot in 2025 and we don't have pictures of their situations. There are a lot of professional athletes that have families and I've heard some stories from people in some leagues that have like full on side girlfriends that they pay for their life and sometimes even the wife knows. But the picture has never gone viral of this individual. And let's be honest, if this picture went viral, at least the name that I've been told, it would be a massive story. Even if like the family's cool with it. And I would imagine a lot of these people, they're in relationships that are not. That do not parallel our lives. Things they're allowed to do and things that they just do are not things that normal people do. It's why I always say like when these people try to give me advice for politicians or just like get on their high horse like bro, I don't give a fuck what you think. You live in a completely different world than me. And as we've seen less and less people view what famous people say as very important. Just because you're an actor or an athlete. No one not that what they're saying, depending on who you are, doesn't, doesn't hit home or have some validity. But especially politicians like we saw a lot of famous people speak out. The last presidential election had zero to little to no impact that you could argue that it had a negative impact. But my point is, is that I still think you could sleep around if you're Tiger woods in 2025 and not get caught, it would be different. I do think he would probably get exposed sliding in some DMs. I think he would be a heavy DMER. But I think the one thing, one tiger's work ethic is you could argue is one of the greatest in the history of athletics. Two, his desire to Win was second to none. And three, technology. He played in an era where the technology, like his prime technology, really changed when late 2000s, by the 2010s, the technology that was coming out specifically with the woods was dramatically different than anyone that started playing golf like Tiger woods in the 80s and the 90s. Tiger was never that accurate off the tee. It's why that he always instituted things like the stinger with a two iron, because he knew that he could hit the fairway. And back then, you weren't hitting it as far as a hole in the PGA Tour. The courses weren't as long, and you get away with doing that. Now, I think I saw a stat. Scotty scheffler hits, like, 65, 70% of the fairways, and he's hitting it 320, 330 yards. When Rory's on, like, he doesn't miss that many fairways. Phil and Tiger were all over the map. But with technology, in 2025, you watch Tiger these last couple years, even post hurting his ankle, he's hitting that baby cut right down the pipe. So I think technology off the tee would be a. He would be at 20, 25, 30 years old, right there with Rory. I mean, this version of Bryson, he did it 320, 330 yards. But like, he did when he was young, he did hit it that far, but he was swinging out of his shoes. He was like Bryson a couple years ago. Now he could just swing under control and hit 325 right down the middle with that baby cut. I mean, hell, over the last couple years, when he was healthy and he'd play in some of these tournaments, he's out driving Justin Thomas. He's out driving some of these guys he's playing with. And that's at 47 years old. So imagine at 26 what he would do. He would dominate. He would have no problem dominating this era. Now, would he win at the clip in which he won? I don't know. The other major difference is he was making so much off the course that after, like, five years, he could really pick and choose where he played. Now, the purses, you know, with the signature events, he'd have to play, obviously, the majors. It'd be interesting what a schedule was. Probably just look a lot like Rory's. He would be. I do believe this. And listen, we've lived, if you're my age, had some unique athletes, right? From Michael Jordan to Steph and LeBron to Brady. There's never been. His name is Tiger. I mean, his name is Tiger. Like just that alone, it's like it doesn't get any better than that. Tiger. It's to me it's the most iconic first name ever. I mean it just, it doesn't get any better than that. That, that, that alone. And he dominates his field by as much as he did. It's like, yeah, there's this guy that dominates his sport and the gap between him and the next person is the widest in the history of the sport. And his first name is Tiger. I mean it's just he's going to be marketable immediately and he's chiseled. He was good looking when he was young. Now he's holding on to the hair, not quite as good, but he's never going to shave and look like me. Coming to Arizona at the end of the summer, what courses do you recommend playing? My dad and I want to get out three times I hear the stadium course, tpc. There's a Draft Kings course across the street. I mean it's TBC across the street, draftkings in the middle. What are some good bang for your bucks as well as quality if you're coming late summer. So I'd assume August is so hot that the prices are it's the cheapest time of the year. I think you can never go wrong playing at minimum two of the three tbc, Scottsdale, Greyhawk and Trune. And if depending on where you're staying, I mean Quintero is a fantastic track, I would say Raven and Whirlwind are going to be much cheaper than those courses and honestly pretty enjoyable. When I first moved here, I played Raven a lot. Now that's one of them's in Chandler, the other one's in Phoenix. But I don't think you can go wrong. Tbc, Greyhawk and Troon. What's your take on wearing the proper golfing attire? I've recently taken up golfing as a hobby and every time I go to the course or range, everyone else is wearing similar collared shirt and pants. I feel out of place showing up in a T shirt and shorts. But all the golf clothes I see at stores are absurdly expensive and I'm not sure if it's worth it since I'm just a beginner. Thanks. I mean if you're just going to the range, especially a public range, who cares? One one thing that is changing dramatically and it's actually starting at the top. Historically, golf is by far the stuffiest sport. It's the country club historically, where only rich people are allowed to play that has dramatically changed over the last 10 years with the explosion of public golf courses. Then it shifted back because public golf is so expensive now. And even country club golf is obviously expensive as well, because you got monthly dues. But a lot of these clubs are now, like, the members are my age, 40, 50, 30 years old, and go, wait, you're charging me all this? And I have to tuck in my shirt? And that is something. At the nicest country clubs right now that have a new, younger feel, there are no dress codes. And listen, there's going to. You go into Olympic Club in the Bay Area, you got to take off your hat. No, different Cal Club. Some of these courses, Monterey Peninsula Country Club, Louisiana. Country Club, like, they have old school rules, which I appreciate. Whatever you want to have in your club, if you want to have those rules, that's fine. I do think if you want to generate more interest and get more youth involved in the sport. Listen, can you just wear nothing? Of course not. Can you go shirtless and play around a golf. But if you want to wear a T shirt and a pair of just shorts, who cares? I mean, look what the PGA Tour did in the last couple years. They allowed shorts in the practice round. Like, what are we doing, guys? It's 110 degrees. We're playing in Memphis, and there's 100% humidity. I got to wear pants on a Tuesday. So if you're at a public driving range, wear whatever you want 1,000%. And I think if you get more and more into it, I think golf over the next 20 years, one strong prediction is there are going to be some courses that will never change. Augusta, Louisiana. Country Club, Olympic Club. I just use those two examples because those are the two nicest ones I've ever played. Monterey Peninsula Country Club, those are going to have a stiffer vibe. But like Silverleaf, which is about 10 minutes away from me, which costs half a million dollars to join, their members are guys like Michael Phelps and Jon Rahm. There is no dress code. It does not exist. You can go into the grill and wear whatever you want. And on any given day, like, there is absolutely. It does not exist. And that is a trend that the more and more people I talk to is growing amongst these clubs. Because if you want to attract younger people, I'm coming here to relax. I'm not coming here to be uncomfortable and, you know, forever. I grew up going to this club in Davis. It's right between where UC Davis is in Sacramento. And the base of the membership are literally farmers and people that work in construction, it costs like $5,000 to join the club. This is not some exclusive elitist country club. And they used to have this rule, which I think has changed. You could not wear jeans in the dining room. It's like, guys, this is not Augusta national here. Fellas, can we. My jeans are more expensive than some of my slacks. Can I just wear my jeans even if I wear a button up shirt? And I'm all for having just generic rules. Hey, we're having a prime rib dinner. I know I'm getting on a tangent here, but this is something that, is something that I'm passionate about. Is like I am a big believer in the dress code should not exist. Now, if you are having certain events, I understand it, and I'm not saying the PGA Tour should allow anything, but as you've seen, like, over time, things change. And if you want to just wear an untucked shirt, you can wear an untucked shirt. So do not worry about what other people are wearing at the driving range. You're also right. I mean, listen, I'm in business with Travis Matthews. They just sent me a couple collared shirts. I haven't paid for a polo here in a little while. Trust me, I know you go into these golf shops like you walk into the pro shop at tpc, you'd be hard pressed to find a polo. Now granted, they mark them up because they got the TPC Scottsdale logo on it or the waste management logo. I just don't know if you could walk in that, in that clubhouse and find anything for under $100. And I get inflation, the dollar. We can talk about that shit till we're blue in the face. The point is I can't find a culture for 100 bucks. And that's, that's just a fact. And they're not alone. I mean, that's. You go into a lot of these places, you go to the PJ Superstore, you better hope they have a sale going on. Been loving. Question for the bag. Do you think that Rory and Bryson will be a rivalry for years to come and the separation of players will make rivalries better, or do you think the separation of the players will minimize the rivalry? I would throw Scotty in there as well. I do think the separation, which is going to end, whether that ends in two years, five years, a year, I don't know. No one seems to have a great grasp or understanding or even inside knowledge of what is actually going to happen. I saw Rory had some comments today, or maybe it was like last Week with Jimmy Kimmel or Jimmy Fallon or wherever. I mean, CNBC or Squawk on the Street. He's like, yeah, I don't think we're in a huge rush to do a deal because they think that they're bleeding dry. Not because the Saudis are going to run them out of money, but, like, you know, sometimes when you're a little kid and you're like, go back to your parents for a little bit more money and they say, no, I already gave you 20 bucks. I remember one time when I was a really little kid, probably like 12 or 13, I was going to go to the movies with some of my friends. And this is probably, you know, 90, mid-90s, 95, 96, 94. And back then you couldn't just, like, you didn't pay with things with a debit and credit card, right? So when you went somewhere, you needed cash and. And I think I'd. Hey, dad, can I get 10 or 20 bucks? I'm going to the movies. At the time, movie ticket was probably like five, six bucks for a little kid and popcorn, probably three or four. And he didn't have any money. And it's like, anyone my age knows if you need some money from your parents, which if you're a kid, you don't have any money of your own, that if they just didn't have any cash, like, there's just no cash coming from it, you're just not going to have any money. So maybe you ask your friend if you can borrow some. Maybe his parents pay for you, but if they won't, like, you're kind of screwed. And it was. It was. I don't know if it was around Thanksgiving holiday or Christmas holiday. And my grandma, God rest her soul, she had some money. And I was like, oh, I'm gonna go to the movies. And my dad's like, oh, can you give. Give him. Give him some money. And she handed me like $2. And it just shows you, like, in her mind. I mean, she. I don't even know when the last time she'd been in the movies. Who knows? Might maybe been like the 70s or 60s. Thought that little kid be able to get movies for two bucks. My dad, like, kind of laughing in the background, but I don't even know what that story had to do with anything. Question for the pod. Did you ever play Pasatiembo Golf Club when you lived in the Bay Area? If so, how was it? If not, are you familiar with the name? It's the last question. I've played it one time I remember would have been like 20, 18 or 19. I would just go on golf now every once in a while and they would have these hot deals. I think they still have it. But this is way before golf got crazy. And I looked and I had heard about this course for a long time. I had never played it. And I saw Passatiempo because you could just do like a 60 mile radius from where you live and it would give you the best courses by rating the cheapest, the most expensive. And it had like a deal of the month and it was Passatiempo for like $90. And I was like, I did it. And I think it was like a Wednesday at 7am and I played with his dad and his son. Super nice guy. I think I had played at like Stanford back in like the 60s. Enjoyable guy to play with. And yeah, courses. Course is sweet. I mean it's. For those of you that don't know, it's. It's a really, really nice. It's a public course. I think it's like half public, half private, kind of down in the Santa Cruz area probably, I don't know, 45 minutes hour north of Monterey. It's sweet track. So yeah, yeah, I've played it. I remember I probably shot like 50 on the front. I got there, I didn't even hit balls, just went out and played. It was hard, it was cold. And then I settled down and started dominating the back, maybe shot 40. But it was just an enjoyable, just an enjoyable round of golf. I remember being pretty empty. I think the. Either the. I think the 18th hole is a par three, which in my life is the only time I've ever experienced that. And I remember the ninth hole, it kind of is like an uphill, I think par 5 headed toward the clubhouse. And I had sprayed it into the first hole because it parallels the ninth hole and the first hole parallel each other, go in opposite directions. And I remember hitting the sand wedge toward the green and I took the biggest divot in the history of divots. And I mean it was massive. It must have been like 3ft, like 2ft depth. And I remember I didn't pick it up. I just walked toward the ball because I was kind of mad. The ball didn't go very far. It definitely did not go on the green. And the people that were playing the hole started screaming at me, people playing one because the people I was playing with couldn't see me. They were on like the opposite side of the green. And yeah, it's pretty embarrassing. Moment, so make sure you fill your divots if you can. The volume.
- [62:56]
Kelvin Washington
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- [63:56]
Jeremy Hobson
We live in a divided country, and our media couldn't be more polarizing. That's why we started the Middle with Jeremy Hobson. It's about bringing voices not from the extremes, but from the vast middle into the national conversation. Each week, we hear from ordinary Americans from all over the country. And when you subscribe to the Middle, you also get an episode each week called One Thing Trump did that focuses on just one item from the avalanche of news. Listen to the Middle with Jeremy Hobson on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You're listening to an iHeart podcast.