← The Herd with Colin Cowherd
The Herd with Colin Cowherd
Go Low - We're back! What is the state of golf, Ludvig Åberg is a star, Mexico Open
00:52:26
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- [00:00]
Colin Cowherd
With Amex Gold, you get up to $100 back annually on eligible purchases at resi restaurants.
- [00:06]
John Middlekauff
So party of two right this way.
- [00:08]
Colin Cowherd
Is music to your ears. That's the powerful backing of American Express enrollment. Required terms apply. Learn more@american express.com With AmEx, you can.
- [00:16]
John Middlekauff
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Visit threatlocker.com today and stay one step ahead of cyber threats this holiday season. Don't forget your number one fan you so what's a gift you could use? Maybe go to more home games or even travel to some away games while rocking a new away team jersey? Well, they've got something for you. Discover automatically doubles all the cash back you've earned on your credit card at the end of your first year with cash back match with Discover, you could turn 150 cash back to 300. That'll help with the swanky away jersey it pays to discover. See terms@discover.com credit card the volume Foreign what is going on everybody? The long awaited return of the Go Low Podcast. It's hard to mix in golf talk when football is going on. I know where my bread is buttered and where the most people listen. But I love the PGA Tour. I love golf in general, whether it's playing it, gambling on it, talking about it. And I haven't touched a club in like two months. I think I might go hit balls either today or tomorrow playing this Friday. So where I live it's starting to get sunny again and golf season is in full swing. I've watched a lot of golf so far this early on in the season, so I am excited to talk about it. Here's the drill will be once a week, obviously this one, I just have some big picture thoughts on the state of the game, what happened last week and with Ludwig winning, as well as just a couple other little tidbits here and there. But overall, my hope is from a podcast standpoint to this year. Get some guys on the podcast, whether it be people in the business. I know some people that work with apparel industries that represent golf. You know, people on the PGA Tour, players, potentially caddies. I saw Brandle Chamblee today at the gym. Seen him a bunch. And I talked to him. I got a bunch of, you know, from Bones, Phil's old caddy, caddy for jt Jeff Ogilvy. I see these guys, I just gotta, gotta be a salesman when we're, you know, mid sweat and find a way to pitch them to come on the show, which, you know, Brando was really, really cool. We talked a little Ludwig. So, yeah, our hope is to expand this operation as well as shoot a bunch of golf videos this, this year. And I already got Dontrell Willis, the, the lefty from the Florida Marlins who actually lives right down the street from me. We hopefully you're going to do that sometimes soon. I got to hit him up. I know he's been traveling, but to just play with some people, maybe play with some pros, play with some athletes, play with just. I've done it with myself for the YouTube channel. So that, that's kind of the game plan. Very fluid. I mean, we can, we can pivot at any moment. But I love golf. I say it all the time. I like golf. My relationship with golf is so much different than football because I don't tackle anybody. Right. I'm not, you know, kicking out the defensive end where I used to play right guard in the wing T offense for the Davis High Blue Devils. But I play golf and it's the one sport which I think, which is awesome to see its explosion and its interest. I guess we could just start there. I think I feel a lot like when I hear people that cover the NBA that discuss their sport whose ratings are plummeting over the course of the last, I don't know, six, seven years and are not doing very well right now, yet all these people still watch it and love it. Like, you don't hear Brian Windhorst or Bill Simmons go, just because other people are watching, I'm not going to watch. And I feel that way about golf. Like, I love watching PGA golf. I love watching pros Play at Torrey Pines at Riv. The players coming up, obviously the majors. But I will watch the Mexico Open. I also like to gamble on it. But, like, I'm in the business of talking about things that are popular, talking about things that are entertaining to the masses. And I'm not an idiot. Like, overall, the sport from the professional level is in a really, really bad spot. And it sucks, right? Yet the game itself, More people in 2025 are playing golf than have ever played the sport. And it's not even close. The popularity of YouTube Golf is just growing exponentially by the month. I am a consumer of that. It's why I wanted to get into the business of doing it myself. I love Bob Does Sports. They can't produce a video and I can't watch it fast enough. I mean, I consume all their shit. I watch Grant play all these guys. What Grant. I. And I have a lot of admiration for the business that these guys have built. I don't really watch that much Good, good stuff. But I have nothing but respect for everything that they have done. I've watched a lot of the Brian Bros. Like, what Bryson has done is incredible. Like, it is awesome to watch his. Like, I've watched him play with Tony Romo. I've watched him play with Tom Brady. He's just. I've watched him try to break, you know, the course record at random munis around Texas or in Florida. He's just really good. He's just very, very entertaining in the state of golf on the Internet. From that standpoint ofquote unquote, YouTube Golf and these creators is its own little world. And these guys, obviously Bryson. But you remove him from these people. You know, starting with. I mean, we have salespeople at the volume that used to work at Barstool, like, the deal and the money that they make Taylor made is pretty crazy. A couple years ago when I was playing at Mesa Country Club with some people in the golfing business, one of them works for TaylorMade. And he was saying the amount of money and product that they push is stupid. And you have seen these companies get in bed with Barstool Sports, with Grant Horvat, with. With Bob Does Sports. And it has been a lucrative proposition for them, you know, in terms of are they better off going with them or like Dan Patrick. And I'm. I'm pro Dan Patrick, but I know who I'd want to be in business with. So the popularity of the sport at the casual recreational level is. Is absolutely booming. I mean, I live probably 10 less than 10 minutes away from TPC Scottsdale where they just hosted the waste management. I'm probably a five minute walk, a two minute drive to Greyhawk and probably 15, 20 minutes away from True north which I would consider those three the three most popular and definitely probably the most famous. I mean you could argue Quintero or Weapon. I mean there are a couple other ones public courses in Arizona which I would consider a hub. And honestly in terms of the west coast I'd say this in Florida are the most popular golf destinations. And these places are charging over $500 during the winter months when our weather is 75 degrees to play golf. And when I first moved here I complained about it all the time. I'm like that is insane. I'm not paying after taxes $575 to play Greyhawk. And then you would look at the T sheet and it would be packed. Same thing for Trun and obviously same thing for tpc. So it's like I could complain about it but that is not only the going rate people are paying constantly. It's why what forced me to join tpc. And honestly I've looked into like private clubs around here. They are, it's insane how expensive it is. I mean the sweet country clubs are well over 500 grand. I would call an average club around here is 150 to $250,000. I mean where I come from, when I joined a place in the Bay Area which was pretty nice, Castlewood, my buy in as a junior member was fifteen hundred dollars. The club my brother's at in Davis, California which is a nice country club, I think the buy ins like 10k. So it is extremely expensive and people are paying. But you couldn't charge these rates if people aren't willing to pay to play golf or join your club. So the popularity is insane. Yet the ratings when you watch pro golf is not good. And it clearly leans leads back to the live situation and them stealing the players, paying for the players to join their league. And I never blamed any of them because anyone putting a hundred thousand dollars, one hundred fifty or one hundred million dollars, one hundred fifty million dollars, two hundred million dollars in front of your face. It's easy for everyone on the outside to judge these individuals. I mean no one cares anymore. But at the time I, I probably would have taken the money to, you know now it, it's been very lucrative for the guys that stayed as well, especially the top guys because guys like Scotty and Rory have been winning and finishing high the most meaning they've made more money over a tour that is losing. I mean they don't. It doesn't pencil what they are paying these players, but they had to up their purses to keep these guys from leaving. So it's just completely all out of whack. But the business model was always kind of fucked up, right. When I turn on the Bills Chiefs, I never have to worry about Josh Allen or Patrick Mahomes. You know what? Mahomes just took this week off. He just, he just flew back to Dallas and he's just R and R just hanging out with the fam. He's just kicking it. Right? That happens all the time in golf. And before Liv, it happened honestly way too much. You would turn on. It's like, oh yeah, Tigers taking the next two weeks off. Oh yeah, DJ and Koepka aren't playing this week. You're like, what? That's not how any of these other sports operate now. In the NBA, guys just don't play. But they're supposed to. They just, you know, choose rest. I'm over it. And it's been a huge problem for the NBA. Honestly, it's been a disaster for their business model. Not necessarily they've actually made more money with TV rights, but the, the TV companies, their revenue in terms of what they can sell advertising because there are way less people watching. It's a problem. And I don't necessarily know how golf fixes that because it's just never going to be a situation where I can't imagine when this reunification happens. And listen, Tiger woods, whose mother just passed, which it's kind of. When you have someone as famous as Tiger woods, it feels like you know him way better than you actually know him. But like part of Tiger, at least me who grew up on him. And I would say him and Michael Jordan are easily my two favorite athletes of all time. I don't even think there's a close third. And I think both of them are going to go down as I would argue probably two of the most famous. The two most famous athletes of my life, I mean, they were famous pre Internet. When they're famous, like if you're. Are you Michael Jackson famous? Are you like 80s Mike Tyson famous? Are you like Whitney Houston famous? Or are you like Internet famous? Which doesn't mean you can't profit and become a megastar. But it was different. Like the fame of Michael Jordan in the 90s or Tiger woods in the late 90s, early 2000s does feel a little bit different. And when you talked about Tiger woods, you Always talked about his father, Earl, who was just always around. But, like, if you follow Tiger really closely and as he got older, listen to him talk like his mother played a massive role in his life. And honestly, you know, Earl, you know, Tiger got some of this running around from Pops. Like, his mom was extremely serious. And Tiger mentioned this when he was sitting with Jim Nance. Like, she was on my ass about academics and getting good grades. And honestly, as Tiger became a star, started making a lot of money, a huge part of his foundation is giving back to education to young people. So it's huge interwoven into his life. And when you think about Tiger woods, to me, the number one thing you think about that defines, like, the Tiger woods experience, like, the talent that. It's like the insane discipline. And all these players over the years about how he's in the gym earlier than them, just, he's just a workout fiend. He's a practice fiend. I mean, he's just maniacal. And unlike Michael, who. Listen, I. I can relate to more, you know, drinker, smoker, gambler. Not saying Tiger doesn't participate in those, but, you know, you watch Michael, as he's gotten older, like, kind of got big. You know, you watch Tiger, it looks like he's still in the gym multiple hours a day. And Michael, if he had been injured like Tiger, I mean, he'd probably be £400. You know, Tiger's will to just grind. And I do think he gets that from his mother. And, you know, when she passed away, was it now two weeks ago, I think it was pretty jolting because. Or jarring, because just a couple weeks ago at the tgl, the thing that they, him and Rory created for espn, she was just there, like, look, you know, my mom's in her mid-70s, just looked like a normal older lady sitting with Charlie and kind of the woods crew. And then all of a sudden, she's dead. So when Tiger had to pull out of his own tournament last week, just, like, it's too soon. Listen, we don't know. And Tiger can be very secretive about stuff, and I don't blame him in terms of this situation, but I do think it's fair to assume, like, was it a little out of the blue? Because no one had that vibe when she was there, kind of like making fun of him when Tiger was sucking it up on tgl. But, you know, speaking of Tiger, I think one of the issues I have with the big picture of the sport and this quote unquote, bringing everyone back together, which feels Inevitable. I mean, obviously, Liv, they had a television product that had 12,000 people watching. Now it was tape delayed and they finally did a deal with Fox, but still they had an event where 12,000 people watched. It is not going that well. Not in the, not from the player standpoint. They are making historic amount of money, not just with signing bonuses, but Joaquin Neiman, who went over there a couple years ago, has already made $45 million on Live. I mean, Taylor Gooch I think is well over 40. The money, I mean, it changed people's lives. You know, Pat Perez made, Pat Perez made more money in three years playing on live than he ever did in the PGA Tour for 20 plus years. So we speak of Dustin Johnson and Phil and Bryson and Koepka and these guys that got, you know, NBA, NFL level contracts, but some of these guys that just got 5 or 10 million to go and then had some success and won some tournaments and just finished some top tens, they printed cash there. But the only reason he disrupted this is because he wanted a part of the PJ Tour and the PGA Tour wouldn't listen to him. And now once they were forced to, they kind of created this role for Tiger, who, let's face it, feels like he's acting like. I, I don't know, I don't know if he's quite the CEO, but he's like a board member and someone that has a lot of pull in this situation. And I've been saying this all season long about Tom Brady. I respect the shit out of Tom Brady. I admire everything he stands for in terms of how much he, how driven he was, how much effort he put in, obviously from a competitive standpoint, clearly how great he was on the field. But all the intangible stuff made him the greatest player of all time and one of the most famous athletes in the history of American sports. But then you put him on television. I was not shocked. He wasn't good. Like, how would Tom Brady knows, know what good television is? Like, how could he compete against me and you to like entertain us? We. I've been consuming for 35 plus years. I'm a consumer. Tom's a player. And for 25 plus years, college and pro, he played on Saturdays and Sundays. Not saying he didn't watch football on off days or whatever, but he didn't look at it from our perspective. He doesn't know what's entertaining. And I, I think about that from the Tiger woods perspective. Tiger woods knows if his body's healthy, how to dominate and how to practice, how to prepare for a tournament, how to compete in that tournament, how if he has a chance to win, how to close out that tournament. There's, you could argue there's no one that's ever been better. Only Jack could even have a conversation about a guy that can, you know, one as many majors, but just in terms of pure dominance. It's incredible. But Tiger woods is kind of like Michael Jordan. They're so famous, they're so big. They kind of live in a different world than all of us. And the product just isn't that great on television. And I understand NBC get takes a lot of shit. They don't take it as seriously, let's say, as Sunday Night Football. Well, of course they don't. The NFL makes them a lot more money and more people watch. So you take things more seriously, especially in business that drive you more revenue. Very understandable. But like, how does Tiger woods know what is a good golf tournament and not in terms of an entertainment standpoint? He knows a good course setup, what a good field would look like. Yeah, I mean, I could tell you what a good field will look like, but just in terms of the entertainment standpoint. So you could bring all these guys back together. Is it going to change anything now? I've always defended golf coverage, which takes a lot of shit in the golf ecosystem of people that talk about the sport. It is not like football, right, where when someone's playing, you watch. And when there's a break, a timeout change, a quarter, you just to commercial golf. I mean, a tournament even Saturday and Sunday after a cut, you have people all over the course. You have people hitting shots consistently at the same time, guys that are leading, guys that are behind, guys that are chasing. Like, it is impossible to show everything. It literally is. And when you pay more money than something is worth. The only way to make that even close to pencil is to force in ads. And when you watch golf tournaments, there are just more ads than any other sporting event you will ever watch. There's not like that in basketball, it's not like that in baseball, it's not like that in football. But there are specific ins and outs of the action, and that's just not true in golf. So I do think it's. You're never going to get a perfect situation of like, oh, you just satiated all of our appetites. You showed every shot I wanted to see. I saw a couple guys on the cut line Friday. I saw everyone in the mix because a lot of times you'll be like, wait, that guy just Finished third. I. I watched the entire round Sunday and I didn't see him hit a shot. Happens all the time. You would never go, you know what? CD Lamb had seven catches. I only saw two of them. Right. You just. That just would not happen. And I think you have all these guys that play the sport for a living and who are, I mean, Tigers. It's like he can't even relate to the good golfers on the PGA Tour, Even the guys that are involved in it. How do they have any comprehension of what entertains us besides just their playing Like Tiger playing entertains me. But just in terms of what a good broadcast, how getting the business back together, how, like, what happens with cuts? No cuts. They got no clue. I mean, they really don't. And I appreciate all these guys that have written letters. Justin Thomas, Max Homa has been really aggressive trying to, you know, just help out the broadcast partners. But I just think there's a lot of trial and error going on. At the end of the day, the most important thing in a sport that is niche, this is not. It's never going to be a top two or three sport in America. Even though more people, especially if they continue to play, will actually play the sport than watch the sport. And though in theory, like in basketball, baseball and football, why they have been big my whole life is because most young boys at one point in time probably play Little League, probably play on a basketball team. Even a large percentage of people just play high school football. Even if you don't actually play, you're just on the team. So if that continues to grow, having your product be good is really important because these people will watch. And I, I just think that there's also a big part of this story. And I saw Adam Scott had a comment of, like, there will be bitterness when these guys return. And it's why Rory McElroy is taking a lot of. Because he's basically changed his tune, saying, listen, it happened, it's over. We gotta welcome these guys back. And people like Adam Scott. And I'm just gonna. I'm not saying all these individuals fall into this category, but Jordan, Jordan Spieth, Justin Thomas, just name famous guys. Tony Finau could have made 50, 100, $150 million if they would have left three or four years ago, but they chose not to. Like, I'm sorry, that was your choice. You made a decision to stay. So you're being bitter that whoever went and got a hundred million dollars got $150 million. They took the risk. That's kind of what business is all about. I mean, a huge reason a large percentage of rich people that did not inherit their money are rich is because they took massive risk at one point in time in their life. And while it worked out, there has been a large percentage of people did not get to that point because their risk failed. And luckily for these guys, like, they still ended up making a lot of money. So I don't want to hear like, yeah, we're bitter, we're pissed off. No one gives a, no one cares at this point in time. You decided to stay, and, and I commend you for that. That was your decision. You stood on whatever moral stance you had, whatever belief you had in the Tour, and I got no problem with that, but I never had a problem with the guy leaving. And if you want your business to continue, which is the only thing that should matter, you just got to let these guys back. Like, you're not fining them, you're not making them work their way back. I'm sorry, they played their hand, you played your hand, and we got a result. And now if these guys are going to come back together, like, bitterness and listen, I, I, I don't blame anyone for, quote, unquote, being bitter or mad, but to think that they should be fined or what. Like, if Bryson DeChambeau wants to just come back and play 15 events, I'm sorry, he's playing 15 events. If Brooks Koepka goes, hey, I'm not gonna play 15 events, but I'll play seven. Brooks, come on in, buddy. John Rom. What do you want to play? You pick your schedule. Welcome to play wherever you want. You need those guys, and that's where we're at. Because, you know, tennis forever, I would say, has had less guys at the top than golf. It's had usually two or three. And for the most part, you get very lucky. They're so much better than everyone else. It felt like 90% of the tournaments with Federer, with Djokovic, with Nadal. It happened with Agassi and Sampras forever, that they're just going to be in, at minimum, the final four of every Grand Slam, in every major tournament. Golf's a little more random. Like, you can just have a shitty Thursday and not make the cut, but you are very, very dependent. Like Tiger's done now. Like, he's never coming back and playing like that. Those days are over. He might play a tournament here, tournament there, but his impact as a player is over. Like, it's done. So you need, and the Tour's been Lucky Scotty Scheffler's gone on like a two year historic run. Roy McElroy has played some of the best golf of his career over the last couple years. Ludwig has thrown his hat in the ring of like, yeah, I'm pretty sweet. So you've had one of the most famous great players of all time in Rory. This shooting star who had a, who had a season that paralleled like Tiger woods and this young guy who looks like a model who just plays like perfect golf, just kind of hit the scene because if you just would have had some randomness like Jordan Spies wrist doesn't work. Justin Thomas wasn't very good last year. Max Homa fell off a cliff. So it's like you got a lot of guys. Like I love Hidecki, but I don't know if Hidecki can just carry your sport. So you need, you got two or three guys who are just rock star superstar hall of Famers who are playing elite golf. You need to bring Bryson Brooks and John Rom back. And then like unlike some of these other individual sports, you can have random players win golf tournaments. Like that can be really exciting. It's like John Middelkoff just took down Rory McElroy. That happened forever. Like guys beating Tiger and Phil or Jack and Arnie or Nick Faldo or Greg Norman. But you need those guys there as well. And that's part of the problem. Sometimes you turn on these tournaments and I'm not counting this week, but the fields are shitty now and Rory and Scotty have really taken advantage the last couple years. I mean, Scottish Effler made on the course over $60 million last year. Xander Shafley won multiple majors, almost made $30 million on the course. I mean these guys are getting paid like CD Lamb, right? Or TJ Watt. Scotty Sheffler's getting paid like he's LeBron James. Luka Doncic, like it's, this is so, it's like, yeah, you turn down some money staying, but you've profited. The top guys, Xander, Rory and Scotty, they have printed money. But I just, I'm nervous about whatever this thing's going to look like, how this is going to go. I think anytime you have these big egos, super rich guys, you know, in an individual sport, unlike football, like football guys are. I told Colin this a couple weeks ago, football players are used to getting yelled at. You're used to being humbled. You're just, this isn't like everyone's kissing your ass 24 7. If you're a good player you are. You are pushed or I I would say criticized, might be strong but held accountable on a weekly basis when you walk into the building by a position coach, by a coordinator, by the head coach, then of course by the media, by your teammates. Like it's just an intense environment. Sometimes as a golfer, it's like no one's telling me. I mean, what was the last time someone, you know really said something to Tiger that made him uncomfortable? Doesn't happen a lot. It doesn't happen a lot. It hasn't happened for 25 years where, you know, Mahomes and he's probably already given them 10 pointers after the super bowl of things that we could have done better. And I, I just it's going to be interesting how this all shakes out and I'm not that confident who's scoring big in the NBA this season. You are with the all new ways to get in on the action at DraftKings Sportsbook, an official sports betting partner of the NBA. From dunks to assists to rebounds, get behind your favorite player and the prop bets you can make on DraftKings, the home of NBA player props. Ready to place your first bet? Try betting on something simple like picking how many points your favorite player will have. Go to DraftKingsportsbook and make your first pick first time. Here's something special just for you. 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- [30:35]
Colin Cowherd
It's the last game of the season, and with Amex, you can save time with card member entrances at select venues and go straight to the action so you can catch every moment. That's the powerful backing of American Express. Terms apply. Learn more@american express.com with Amex as a.
- [30:51]
John Middlekauff
Small business owner, you don't have the luxury of just clocking out early. Your business is always on your mind. So when you're hiring, you need a partner that grinds just as hard as you. That hiring partner is LinkedIn Jobs. When you clock out, LinkedIn clocks in. LinkedIn makes it easy to post your job for free and share it with your network to get qualified candidates that you can manage all in one place. I've been grinding on this little business called the three and out podcast now for years, and we have a ton of guys that work behind the scenes. And I understand the importance of not just getting qualified candidates, but getting the right people for your job. And based on LinkedIn data, 72% of small businesses using LinkedIn say that LinkedIn helps them find quality candidates. We have used it for this podcast for the volume, and it has worked because you need qualified candidates. At the end of the day, the most important thing your small business is the quality candidates. And with LinkedIn, you can feel confident that you're getting the best. So find out why more than 2 1/2 million small businesses use LinkedIn for hiring every day. Find your next great hire on LinkedIn. Post your job for free@LinkedIn.com John that's LinkedIn.com Johan to post your job for free. Terms and conditions apply. Welcome to my legacy. I'm Martin Luther King iii, and together with my wife, Andrea Waters King, and our dear friends Mark and Craig Kilburger, we explore the personal journeys that shape extraordinary lives.
- [32:18]
Colin Cowherd
Each week, we'll sit down with insp aspiring figures like David Oyelowo, Mel Robbins, Martin Sheen, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, and Billy Porter. And their plus one, their ride or die as they share stories never heard before about their remarkable journey.
- [32:34]
John Middlekauff
Listen to my legacy on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is my legacy.
- [32:43]
Katherine Legge
Hey, you guys, I'm Katherine Legg. I'm a racing driver who's literally driven everything with four wheels across the planet. And I've got a new podcast. It's called Throttle Therapy. This season, I'm gearing up to make history, competing in some of the world's most notorious racing events, starting at the Indy 500. Join me as I travel from racetrack to racetrack in my quest to continue a memorable career in racing. I'm also going to bring you inside stories with legends of sports, new faces from the next generation of auto racing, and conversations with the people who supported me throughout my career. We'll be getting into everything from Karting to nascar, even Formula One. Whether you dream about being a pro athlete or an astronaut, we're talking about what it takes to make it. Listen to Throttle Therapy with Katherine Legg, an iHeart women's sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [33:39]
Colin Cowherd
Presented by Capital One, founding partner of iHeartra Women's Sports.
- [33:50]
John Middlekauff
Now, on the bright side, I mentioned this earlier, but I, I, I, I see this. I've seen him at the gym probably like six or seven times. I am a huge Brandle Shamblee fan and I, I think what I love about an analyst is you can be twofold. You can be the John Madden John Gruden. You can be kind of like an uplifting entertainer. Now if you watch John Madden and John Guden, they weren't on that many guys. They were more just entertainers. And then you get like Troy Amman, who, you watch Troy post, like the Romo entrance into that world. Troy's stepped up his game and I would say he, by 4 of all the top cats, is the most critical. And he will just blast people, coordinators, coaches, players. He will just let, which, which is my style. I like, I'm a John Madden Gruden guy. Those guys entertain me. But I do like when you see something obvious, especially when I'm gambling on it for you just to let it rip. And I think Brandle's great at that. He, he just, he will be very critical where I think a lot of people in this business are just scared to be. And he, he's, he doesn't apologize for it. And I don't agree with everything he says, but I, I, I, he is, I think he's elite at his job. Elite. And I see him at the gym sometimes, like, I gotta say something to him and I'm just soaked in sweat on the StairMaster trying to be less fat. And he walks by a couple times and eventually I just kind of say something about Ludwig swing and he stops. And we, we talk for a minute and he was just like, because I, I essentially said, I, I'm going to go to the driving range the next couple days and try to emulate whatever that guy's doing. He's like, good luck. He's like, if you figure it out, hit me up. And I think sometimes when you see a young player, you just know right away. You're like, I don't know if I've ever seen anything quite like that. I Remember in his first year watching Shohei Ohtane hit a double and I remember when he turned first and started going to second and I was like, this guy's running faster than every player in the big leagues. I didn't realize he was 65 and could run like a deer. And he hits bombs, Annie pitches. Remember the first year once they traded Alex Smith and Mahomes started. I think his first game of his career was against the San Diego Chargers at the time. And it was like, holy, is this Brett Favre reincarnated. And you just know it right away. I think Ludwig kind of falls under that category. And I think sometimes you got to be careful in golf. It's such a challenging game. You go through so many ebbs and flows. Your swing can change as you get older. So it's hard to make like definitive statements about guys career. But when you see a guy, 6 3, 6 4, whose swing looks exactly the same every time he takes it back and pulls the trigger, who plays, gets over a shot and pulls the trigger within the blink of an eye and hits the ball like Bryson DeChambeau level, deep and straight as an arrow. It's like I just don't see this guy failing. And I got a good buddy that works at Adidas Golf who's a big part of kind of their operation and was telling me about this guy three years ago and he's like, he's just, he's what you consider like an all time blue chipper. And sometimes you see that in sports, like when an Andrew Luck comes out, looks like Cooper Flagg. I don't know if even he falls under that category. But just like this, just a can't miss and I hate that term in the NFL draft because there's no such thing. But every once in a while there are certain type players that like, yeah, if he doesn't get injured, like Anthony Davis, if he doesn't get injured, like he's a camp miss player. Miles Garrett coming out, can't miss player. It's rare in golf but like that is Ludwig. He's just a can't miss player. And he's been on the tour for like less than two years. He came on in the summer of 2023, so his first season on the PGA tour was in 2024. Now like I just said, because of live, these fields aren't as deep, right? Even random guys like Carlos Ortiz or you know, Joaquin Neiman's really, really good and when they reunify, he'll be one of the better young players. On the PGA tour, but DJs kind of mailed it in. But, you know, the Brooks, the roms, you just go through, all these guys that would just add to a field, make it harder to. To not just win top tens, top twenties, make cuts. In his full. First full season on the PGA Tour, he played 20 events. He made 18 cuts. And of those 18 cuts, eight of them, he finished in the top 10. And eight of those top tens, five of those were in the top five. So his first full season on tour, especially the first half of the year, never having played some of these courses, it's like, holy shit. And you watch him early on in this season, you know, he's four for four now. Granted, the century didn't have a cut and smaller field, but he finished fifth. But you watch him the other day, honestly, a couple weeks ago, when they were at the. When it was just the regular Torrey Pines tournament, he was winning. And then he got. Listen, I've been sick twice in the last three months. He just got, like. He started puking on the course. You can't convince me. If he just had been healthy, I don't know if he wins, but he's a lock two or three. And that's the thing with him. It's like, you know, Hovland came on the scene, it was like, this guy's gonna dominate. And it turns out, like, he just tinkers. I do that a lot. Like, I've changed my grip, I changed my swing path. I'm just constantly thinking of, like, different arm angles. Sometimes I play well, sometimes I don't, but I can never stop really tinkering. What's his name? Hank Haney, wrote about in his book about Tiger. Like, Tiger was a sneaky big tinkerer. And sometimes you had to get him back on path. Ludwig, there's nothing even to tinker with. His swing's just pretty like A to B to C, and it's just straight and long. His putting is not. I wouldn't call him Steve Stricker, but holy. When you hit it that close all the time, you're not going to miss. So I'm just watching the guy. I go, I had. I took a thousand dollars. I had. I had a thousand dollars in my account, and I just spread it around on Torrey Pines, and I hit one of, like, five bets. So I placed like four or five 200, 250 bets. I put $200 on Tony Fee now to finish in the top five. And I got kind of lucky. He birdied 17. Then he birdied 18 to finish tied for fifth. So I turned my thousand dollars into 1500. So I made 500 bucks, and I immediately put $1,000 on Ludwig to win the Players. Last year was the first time he'd ever been in the Players. He finished eighth, which the Players also, because of Liv, is not as good of a field. And I also put $500 on him to win the Masters, where last year he finished second in the first. He's played in four majors because last year was the first year he'd ever played majors. He finished second at Augusta. He missed a couple cuts, and he also finished T12 at the Open. Like, I. I think he's a lock this year to finish, at minimum, I would say, top five in one of the majors. I'd be shocked if he doesn't have multiple top tens. Can you win it? It's hard to win majors, but he feels like a lock. Like, I don't think he's done winning this year. And last year he had a knee injury. This year he's been sick. If he's healthy, which right now, he clearly is, like, who's better than him? Scotty Scheffler. Okay, who's on one of the great runs of all time? Roy McElroy, who has found, like, the second iteration of his prime. Xander, who has, like, a rib injury. Okay. I'll give you that. You know, Bryson, his world rankings a little off because he plays on Liv, but obviously one of the best players and one of the most unique talents we've ever seen. Okay. I would say John Rom, but ever since he went to live, he final fell off a cliff. But when Rom's right, like, that's the crew he's with. Like, that's his crew. That's who he's rolling with. Like, JT can't hold this guy's jock. Jordan Spieth would die to be this good. Even good American players like Tony Finau and Windham Clark, none of them are this good. So I think I say it all the time. Like, I watch sports for the best players, and the two sports which obviously I watch the most are football and golf. I. I love golf. And I fell in love in golf. Not just because I played it, because watching Tiger woods play, I fell in love with football. Like, growing up, watching Steve Young, watching Troy Aikman, watching Barry Sanders, you know, Brett Favre to Peyton Manning and Tom Brady. And that's, like, what I love about Ludwig. That's why I love about the NFL drafts. Like, Abdul Carter feels like if he stays healthy. He's going to be an elite NFL player like that. What he does translates and that's what I feel about Ludvig. And we're already seeing it happen. Last but not least, before we get into we're going to do a @golopod@golopod mailbag. We're going to do it every week. So fire into those DMs to get your questions answered here on the show. I did want to hit my Mexico Open, which I've hit a decent amount of just outrights over my couple year PGA Tour gambling career. One of them was last year, Jake Knapp. I think he was like 30 to 1 maybe I bet 50 bucks. I think I won 1500. Maybe I won 2000. I'd have to go back and look but. But I hit him and he's been playing really well. So this is one of those tournaments that listen, nobody's playing in the betting favorite is Akshay Bhatia. So who's good player but you know, we have former winners like Tony Finau and Jon Rahm. Obviously neither is in this field. But a parlay that I'm going to do a top 20 parlay will be Jake Knapp, who's defending champion and playing well. He just top 20 did at I think he finished well at the waste Management too. But he just played well at Torrey, which his hometown. He's San Diego kid Bo Hostler who always plays well early in the season. And Mike Thor Borenson who just goes to store. He was supposed to be the Ludwig of last year. He was like the number one guy coming out of college and now they have this thing called PGA Tour you that if you're like essentially the number one guy when your college season ends in like the late springtime, you get a free membership to the PGA Tour. That's what happened to Ludwig and that's what happened to Thor. Now he is not playing well, but this is a resort course. Like this would be a fun course for me and you to play. This guy is really, really long. I, I think I watched him play a couple years ago with, with Horvat on YouTube. He's just, he's just, he's got a lot of talent. So I'm throwing him in there. I think it's Almost, you know, 100 bucks net you like $1,900 so that I'm going to play this Nap Hosler and Thor Borinson. So might be saying his name right. But big fan of the guy. He's a.
- [44:37]
Colin Cowherd
With amex, there's always a new experience to explore, from curating the perfect vacation and chilling in the Centurion Lounge before you get there trying out that new trendy restaurant. Thanks to Priority Notify with Global dining, access by Resy and getting straight to the action at the big game. With Card member entrances at select venues with Amex Platinum, you can experience it all. That's the powerful backing of American Express. Terms apply. Access to the Card Member entrants not limited to the American Express Platinum card. Learn more@americanexpress.com with AmEx Time and time.
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John Middlekauff
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- [45:49]
Katherine Legge
Hey you guys, I'm Kathryn Legge. I'm a racing driver who's literally driven everything with four wheels across the planet, and I've got a new podcast. It's called Throttle Therapy. This season, I'm gearing up to make history, competing in some of the world's most notorious racing events, starting at the Indy 500. Join me as I travel from racetrack to racetrack in my quest to continue a memorable career in racing. I'm also going to bring you inside stories with legends of sports, new faces from the next generation of auto racing, and conversations with the people who supported me throughout my career. We'll be getting into everything from karting to nascar, even Formula one. Whether you dream about being a pro athlete or an astronaut, we're talking about what it takes to make it. Listen to Throttle Therapy with Katherine Legge, an iHeart women's sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast presented by Capital One, founding.
- [46:47]
Colin Cowherd
Partner of iHeart Women's Sports. I'm so sick of hearing men talk about women's basketball. If only there were a professional WNBA player with her own podcast I could listen to. Hey, this is Lexi Brown, WNBA player and professional yapper. And this is Mariah Rose. You may know me from Spilling the tea on Hoops for hotties on TikTok. And we've got a new podcast, Full Circle Every Wednesday. We're catching you up on what's going going on in women's basketball and not just in the wnba, but with Athletes Unlimited unrivaled and college basketball. We've got you with analysis, inside stories, and a little bit of tea. I know you guys have seen a lot of former and current basketball players telling their stories from their point of view, and I just think it's time for the girlies to tap in. We want to share all of the women's basketball stories that you won't see anywhere else. Tune into Full Circle and iHeart women's sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports.
- [48:00]
John Middlekauff
At GoPod. At GoPod, I'm gonna start using that Instagram more. Definitely use it every week for the the podcast question for the pod, but probably more go low. Related how can a company like NBC not provide shot tracking on every shot? Watching the Genesis now and Finau gets a shot track, but Ludwig, who likely is about to win, doesn't get one. I don't get it. When I went to, I went to Waste management on Friday and walked around to like three or four holes and behind every hole on the tee box was the trackman. And that week, you know, CBS had the waste management, though the Golf Channel usually, I would say every tournament beside majors gets a big part of Thursday and Friday coverage and on the Golf Channel. You know, Golf Channel is owned by NBC. And one thing with NBC, with the changing landscape of television, they have cut a lot of costs. And clearly the, the shot tracers and everything involved when that create exp. You know, is expensive. I think it has to do with just cutting, cutting. And as someone who's shot a golf video last couple last year and had a guy edit it, it is difficult to add those. So there are going to be times when you just miss it. But there are also times when you're watching it's like, I don't even think they have the option here. How's that possible? So I, I think it's just they're cheap, they're cutting cost. But it is difficult to watch pros play without the shot tracer. Same thing. This weekend's golf telecast was much improved with swing metrics and shot tracing graphics. Golf porn for us golf nerds, the lack of consistent swing metrics graphics in weekly telecasts annoys Me. They are capturing a lot of the swing data via the trackman launch monitors. Include more of this in the podcast. I hear you, man. I hear you. See if I can find. Okay. Love the two pods. Also, side note, I just got married this past August. Congratulations. This is from Tyler. With this year being a Ryder cup year, I'm curious to know who you would pick for top 12 Ryder cup starters this weekend. Obviously, a lot will change and you don't know who the automatic qualifiers will be at this point, but you would love to hear your team. Well, the European team looks pretty good. You know, if Rahm finds form and Hovland finds form, the top of their team is. Is stacked. You got Rory, you got Rom, you got Ludwig, you got Hovland and you got Hatton and you got Fleetwood and Shane Lowry. So, I mean, you know, the bottom of their team can be a little hit or miss, but the top of their team is every bit as good as ours. So it is. It's clearly very difficult to win on foreign soil. So being at play to New York with Keegan Bradley plays going to be nuts. But their team is going to be really, really good. And although obviously, you know, Beth Page is a long golf course. Rory long sky on tour Rom super deep Ludvig. I mean, right behind Rory. I mean, they're top players. Hovland, when he's right, bombs it. I think it's really easy to pick our top six. Right now. It's Scottish Effler. It's Xander Schoffley. It is Colin Morikawa. You know, we'll have to see with Patrick Cantlay. You know, and I would say Justin Thomas is definitely rounding into form, so I got no issue with him. I'm probably. I'm trying to do this off the top of my head. So if I'm missing someone that is is a lock. Scotty, Xander Morikawa, Bryson. I. I think Bryson is a lock. Koepka, depending on form. But I have no problem having Kepco like basically a lock. Then I think there are just a lot of questions with the, you know, what speech risk situation, you know, can't lay, like I said, is probably on the team. Justin Thomas is definitely on the team. And then there's just kind of that next group of guys. You know, Homa is in the wilderness right now. You know, Windham Clark is actually showing some signs of life. You know, Keegan Bradley has actually played pretty well now. He's the captain and he said he'll only pick himself if he doesn't have to pick himself. He's automatic qualifier. So I. I don't know. We just got to see how this year goes. But some of these guys winning these tournaments, like D3 is a euro. Hideki is not even available. You know, Rory, European. I'm interested to hear your thoughts on the tgl. Obviously, Tiger did not provide the juice everyone was looking for, but I think it generally has a place. I play simulator golf here in Baltimore. The leagues are full and highly competitive, so this isn't a crazy new thing, which is how the golf purists are talking about it. With a couple simple tweaks, I think it could be legit. Here are my ideas. Get a real golf booth. The idea that players themselves can be the color commentators is ridiculous and obviously doesn't work. You can catch them on hot mics like other sports and huddles on sidelines, but have someone sitting there discussing the strategy. Phil would be perfect, but that's a pipe dream. The hammer switches every three holes, even if it isn't used. This would help a team crawl back. Keeps a team with a lead from just running out the clock. No timeouts. Icing just doesn't work. The point. I haven't really watched that much the last. After the first couple matches. I think you're taking it a little too seriously, and maybe I'm wrong, but I think it's less about who's winning and losing. You know, who's. Obviously, there have been some cool moments, but I don't think it's about, like, who won this year's tgl. Who. Who was able to, you know, win playoff games in the tgl. I think it's more about. Is it really entertaining? The best part about the tgl, and I honestly don't even think is that close, is the technology. So watching guys hit shots into this enormous screen, like, it's cool. I think it's just an entertainment product. It should just be an easy watch. And maybe I'm wrong. That's my opinion. It's less about the competitiveness, though. Some fun competitive moments are cool. I saw. Was it Fleetwood? I think they had like four of them on. On Monday, on President's Day, Fleetwood hit this crazy putt to win a hole, and they went nuts. It was cool. Matt Ryan was there with Arthur Blank. We've seen Kisner Skull, a sand shot that hit the pin. That Tiger started, like, peeing his pants laughing. I think you need a mix of both, but I think competitiveness, like it's Sunday at a PGA golf tournament. I don't think that's the answer. I don't know how you balance the entertainment standpoint of the players talking and the broadcast. You know, listen, before Phil went to live, it felt like he was in line to be, I don't know, the next Johnny Miller, the next just all time great broadcaster. And he chose that life and he didn't want it. So I think that it's kind of sad that he disappeared from our life, from a as golf lovers because he could have played a huge, huge role doing that. Got to hear your take on the Bryson DeChambeau Donald Trump video. Most watched YouTube video. I don't even think I watched it. I, I saw clips online. I'm not like a loyal Bryson watcher. Like I don't miss like Bob does Force post something. I'm, I'm gonna watch it. I would say the Brian Bros. Depending on where they're playing. I watch a lot of those. The Bryson, I think he's really entertaining. But I've watched him with Romo, I've watched him with, with Brady. I like Trump's, you know, kind of in to over the top kind of like push cut thing he's got going on. People say I kind of putt like him, kind of stabby. But listen, Bryson, Bryson's a rocket ship. And what he's done and utilized this modern technology, obviously he's boys with Donald and it was perfectly timed right before the election. But like he puts stuff up, they go. He does big, big numbers for a reason. Like he's, he's fun to watch. And I think he's, he's, I think he's like the modern day Phil. What Phil kind of was pre social media and everything. Just from an entertainment standpoint, that's kind of what Bryson has turned into, which is good for the sport. You know, historically, basketball, baseball, football, they have been full of these guys. You know, one thing I saw someone on social media say that one big issue right now that basketball is having is their players. You know, the younger players, like no personalities. It's kind of a personality less sport and I think golf sometimes can become that. And it's really, really important that you have big personalities and from an individual standpoint, you need the individuals to kind of separate themselves. And Bryson has done that and through YouTube, obviously he's a great player and he won the US Open in pretty historic fashion with that bunker shot at Pinehurst. But I, I think YouTube, no one has utilized it more as a professional. You know, when you think about some of these guys like Draymond had a podcast, kind of, you know, was huge. Seen some of these other guys start podcasts. You know, Bryson did his version of that on just playing golf. He's like playing some random course in Texas. He goes to like, the guy. What's the course record? The guy will be like 63 and Bryson will try to break it. Fucking genius. I mean, it really is. Anyone could do it. Anyone could do it. And look at the two guys. Like, now Horvat is partners with Phil. Phil's no dummy. Like, Phil sees it. And Phil's got a big personality. Like, he's tailor made for it. Part of, you know, to hold a YouTube video and to be successful, like, you're going to have to have a big personality to do it. So, big Bryson fan. If Full Swing in Netflix offered you a role to narrate the show, would you accept the journalist that narrated. Season 1 and 2 are good, but I think you'd do great. I mean, come on. Of course I follow the guy, forget his name, the producer, the thing. The Netflix show doesn't really do it for me. I, I've, I've probably watched the first two seasons a total of if there are eight, so 16, probably five or six total kind of bores me a little bit, which I, I appreciate. Like them, it's hard to do. Golf's just not that interesting. You know, it's just, it's really. Some of these guys just aren't that interesting. But I would do an artbeat for sure. I. I'm glad. The one thing that's cool about Netflix, it's kind of like YouTube with golf, it's really been good for some sports that, you know, like the NFL doesn't need it, but golf F1 for us in America, it's a great way to have casual people that like competition and like stars and like, you know, good drama and stories. It's a great way to get in front of their eyes. And the Netflix thing to me has been by far just a net positive. Okay, that is go low, episode one 2025 in the books. And we'll keep them coming. So I will talk to everyone soon I'll have a football podcast probably what day is today? Recording this for Wednesday for Thursday and we'll be back swinging. But enjoy the week. Like I said, I got. I got Knapp Hostler and Thor Borenson. I can't really say his name, but Michael Stanford kid this week. Top 20s. It's hard to pick a winner just in these fields are so random. And the resort course don't feel comfortable. Even Top Tens are kind of difficult. But enjoy the week and we will talk soon.
- [60:56]
Katherine Legge
The Volume.
- [61:00]
John Middlekauff
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