Hoops Tonight - CAVS-KNICKS REACTION: Jalen Brunson & Josh Hart's redemption lead Game 2 win vs. Harden & Mitchell

Summary

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Hoops Tonight: CAVS-KNICKS REACTION – Jalen Brunson & Josh Hart's Redemption Deliver Game 2 Win (May 22, 2026)

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Episode Overview

In this episode of Hoops Tonight on The Herd with Colin Cowherd, the crew breaks down Game 2 of the Eastern Conference Finals between the New York Knicks and Cleveland Cavaliers. The episode dives deeply into the tactical adjustments, the remarkable redemption performances by Jalen Brunson and Josh Hart, the ongoing struggles with Harden and Mitchell for the Cavs, and the broader implications for both teams going forward in the series. The lively mailbag wraps up with insightful Q&A, a sidebar on NBA flopping culture, and even a quick tangent into guitar nerdery.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Josh Hart’s Redemption & Tactical Shift

[05:08]–[09:48]

• Prescient analysis from Zach Lowe: The hosts highlight how NBA analyst Zach Lowe predicted Hart might rebound from a rough Game 1:
  • "I wonder if this Josh Hart thing is going to be like the Isaiah Hartenstein thing, where we talk about how in Game 1 he's unplayable and then all of a sudden he's just a monster in Game 2."
    —Co-host (05:00)
• Hart’s huge game:
  • Career-high 26 points, five threes, seven assists to one turnover, plus 18 in 33 minutes.
  • Showed visible energy and confidence—a complete 180 from Game 1’s rough outing.
• Coaching adjustment:
  • Mike Brown gave Hart a "long leash" (08:32), allowing him to play through early misses, building rhythm.
  • Once Hart found his shooting touch, Cleveland’s defensive scheme lost its effectiveness.

2. Knicks’ Offensive & Defensive Edge

[09:59]–[17:37]

• Improved Knicks shot quality:
  • The Knicks are consistently generating superior looks due to more traditional coverage, better floor spacing, and key contributions from Mikal Bridges and OG Anunoby.
  • "There has been a clear advantage in their shot quality overall since the adjustment from Mike Brown to get away from the super aggressive trapping..." —Host (10:08)
• Tactics breakdown:
  • Knicks attacking switches by targeting Harden on Brunson ISOs; Harden unable to stay in front—"James can't guard Brunson one on one, and that drop coverage look is not working." —Host (13:13)
  • Knicks' short-roll and ball movement, especially with Mikal Bridges flashing into the paint, confounds Cavs’ rotations.
• Defensive excellence:
  • New York’s wings (OG, Bridges, Hart) collapse gaps and recover on shooters, forcing rushed decisions and poor shots from the Cavs.
  • "Their defense, just frankly, the way they close those gaps...is making some of these openings shut pretty quickly and forcing the Cavs to rush..." —Host (13:00).

3. Jalen Brunson’s Stardom

[17:39]–[18:47]

• Recognition for Brunson:
  • Praised as the statistical and emotional engine behind New York’s run: 28.5 PPG, 60% TS into Game 2.
  • "This guy's most likely going to lead a Finals team and he's doing it averaging...28 and a half points a game on 60% true shooting." —Host (18:10)
  • Virtuoso performances attacking Harden in isolation and solving double teams.

4. Cavalier Struggles and Defensive Issues

[18:52]–[26:32]

• Flawed coverage against Knicks:
  • Cavaliers oscillate between various coverages trying to hide Harden, but nothing consistently works—particularly their soft double-team approach, which allows Brunson to pick them apart.
  • "These soft double teams are pointless because you're existing in rotation with no pressure on the ball handler..." —Host (24:28)
• Shot making woes:
  • Cleveland went 9-for-35 from three. Catch-and-shoot efficiency is the key variable: when the Cavs hit them, they win; otherwise, they struggle.
  • "Donovan Mitchell came into the night 10 for 45 on catch and shoot threes. He just can't make them this postseason for whatever reason." —Host (25:31)
• Path back into the series:
  • Hosts caution not to count out Cleveland due to their wide gap between best and worst play, but improved defense and outside shooting are required.

5. Mailbag Highlights & Analyst Roundtable

[30:34]–[51:02]

Cavs’ Biggest Issue?

• Defensive schematic failures are prioritized over shooting woes. Even if shooting normalizes, inability to get stops will doom them.

James Harden Discourse

• Hosts push back on over-harsh playoff Harden narratives:
  • Few ball-handlers could guard Brunson; Harden’s playmaking is still valuable even if not always recorded in the stat sheet.
  • "James Harden as a shot creator, as a secondary shot creator... is giving you a point per possession in the halfcourt." —Host (35:24)
• Questioning trade-offs between Harden, Garland, and possible additions (e.g., future LeBron scenario).

OG Anunoby’s Minutes & Knicks’ Rotations

• Knicks’ depth and spreading of minutes allow for more intensity late in games; slight reductions in OG’s load reflect Josh Hart’s breakout and tactical flexibility, not necessarily injury or caution.

Knicks’ Title Chances & Western Conference Injuries

• Scenario-building for Finals matchups: if Spurs limp through with injuries, Knicks' shot improves with rest advantage. Thunder remain sturdy even shorthanded.

6. Broader NBA Themes and Playoff Storylines

[52:27]–[72:05]

Spurs-OKC Chess Match

• Analysis of how foul trouble for key bigs (Hartenstein) and shooting variance could swing the series.

Flopping Debate & Officiating Culture

[58:45]–[72:05]

• Refereeing consistency:
  • General praise for officials not rewarding grifting/flopping.
  • Debating the aesthetics and influence of stars’ flopping (Shea Gilgeous-Alexander, James Harden).
  • "He is the best player or the second best player or the third best player in the world. Why is he doing this? It's just lame. It's unbecoming of an MVP." —Guest Analyst (65:41)
• Broader responsibility:
  • League policies are blamed for incentivizing non-basketball plays—suggestions for stricter fines and enforcement.
  • Hosts land in the philosophical middle: flopping is annoying but not currently decisive to results.

7. Guitar Sidebar

[72:05]–[75:02]

• Off-topic Q&A about the merits of PRS Silver Sky vs Fender Stratocaster, with praise for PRS’s craftsmanship and details on John Mayer’s signature model.

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Memorable Quotes & Timestamps

• Zach Lowe’s premonition:

  • "I wonder if this Josh Hart thing is going to be like the Isaiah Hartenstein thing…he’s just a monster in Game 2." – Co-host, [05:00]

• On Josh Hart’s big night:

  • "Playoff career high, 26 points from Josh Hart made the entire coverage work." – Host, [09:03]

• On Brunson torching Harden:

  • "James can't guard Brunson one on one, and that drop coverage look is not working." – Host, [13:13]

• On Knicks core making life hard for the Cavs:

  • "The way they are in the gaps and how they close back out, how fast OG Anunoby and Mikal Bridges are in rotation… that’s just a credit to them." – Host, [13:05]

• On Cavaliers’ path back:

  • "We should all, none of us should be counting out the Cavs. They have been the biggest gap between floor and ceiling of any playoff team that we've watched this year." – Host, [26:15]

• On flopping culture:

  • "I find myself in the middle…Shay's fucking awesome. The way it's being officiated actually makes a lot of sense to me because no one's getting rewarded for any of this shit…But still, every time I'm watching a game and a dude makes a non basketball flop, it drives me crazy." – Host, [67:06]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 05:08 – 09:48: Josh Hart’s turnaround, coaching context, and impact on defense/spacing
• 10:08 – 17:37: Knicks’ offensive and defensive adjustments, breakdown of shot quality and coverages
• 17:39 – 18:47: Jalen Brunson’s continued postseason stardom
• 18:52 – 26:32: Detailed Cavs defensive dilemmas, shooting analysis, and hope for a comeback
• 30:34 – 51:02: Mailbag – Harden discourse, Knicks minutes, Finals matchup hypotheticals
• 52:27 – 58:26: Spurs-OKC preview, defensive adjustments
• 58:45 – 72:05: Flopping debate & officiating analysis, NBA philosophical conversation
• 72:05 – 75:02: Guitar nerd deep dive (Paul Reed Smith Silver Sky vs Fender Stratocaster)

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Conclusion

This episode offers one of Hoops Tonight’s most tactical, player-centric breakdowns of an NBA playoff game, illustrating not only the shifting X’s and O’s but also the confidence arcs of role players and how coaching patience can turn a series. The mailbag further roots the show in fan culture, with measured, candid takes on big NBA and playoff themes. Engaging, detail-rich, and true to the irreverent, opinionated tone of The Volume.

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Transcript

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[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

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[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

Big props to this team.

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[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

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[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

The Volume.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

All right. Welcome to Hoops tonight here at the Volume. Happy Thursday, everybody.

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

Hope all of you guys are having

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

a great end to your week. Got a Jam Pack show for you guys tonight. We're going to be covering Game 2

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

of the Eastern Conference finals from the perspective of both teams.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

Jackson is back, so we're going to have a mailbag at the tail end of the show.

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

So if you guys have any questions from anything in any of the series, drop them in the chat. We'll bring Jackson on and we're going

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

to have a, I, I have some thoughts on this game. Not a ton of thoughts based on

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

a lot of similar story lines that we saw in game one. So we'll break down the game for, you know, 10, 15 minutes and then we'll do kind of a longer mailbag today. So if you guys have any questions, anything you want, you guys want to get into, drop them in the chat. We'll get to them at the tail end of the show.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

You guys know the drill. Before we get started, subscribe to the

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

Hoops Tonight YouTube channel so you don't

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

miss any more of our videos if

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

you're already subscribed, like this video and sign up for post notifications. That helps us a lot. All right, let's talk some basketball.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

So I, I, I, I'm going to start by telling this particular story just

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

because I think it is very relevant to what happened in tonight's game.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

So I had a really cool experience this morning.

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

I got the opportunity to go on the Zach Lowe show, which, which anybody who's a basketball fan knows that Zach is literally the best in the business. So it was an honor and a privilege to get the opportunity. And as you can imagine, for a guy like me who's been a big fan of Zach as long as I've been and just someone who's looked up to him, I think he's an incredible role model for not just people in our business, but also just like as a person, he's just a great dude if you've learned anything about him.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

And like, just getting to be on

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

his show was just a really cool experience for me.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

But obviously it was just this super fun, like hoops talking hoops for an

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

hour session that was just a blast.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

And we did a deep dive into

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

the Western Conference finals, which again, if you guys haven't checked that out yet, you can find it on Netflix or on Spotify, wherever you get your podcasts.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

But at the tail of the show,

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

we spent like 10, 15 minutes on Knicks Cavs. We won't go too long just because we knew game two was tonight.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

But in that conversation, we discussed a

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

lot of that late game chess match

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

and Zach, right at the very end of the pod, like literally in the last 90 seconds before we called it

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

a night, he goes, he said something

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

along the lines of like, I wonder if this Josh Hart thing is going

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

to be like the Isaiah Hartenstein thing

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

where we talk about how in game one he's unplayable and then all of

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

a sudden he's just a monster in game two. And we were way too quick to write him off and that turned out

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

to be prescient because that is quite

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

literally exactly what happened tonight. Josh Hart.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

How about a career high 26 points? It's five threes, has seven assists to

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

just one turnover as a couple of steals, plus 18 and 33 minutes. Had like an animated quality to him all night. He was incredible.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

Zach was right on top of that.

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

That's why he's the best in the business. I just thought that was kind of a. He shot me a text message during the game and was like, remember what I said?

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

I was like, yeah, you're.

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

You got it. You're right.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

But like Josh, there's a very simple

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

dynamic that was taking place in Game 1.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

The ability to put Jared Allen on

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

him and to roam around the basket was giving the Cavs a lot of leeway to get away with switches.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

Why? Because if you're attacking a switch and there's like you saw with the way

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

that the Knicks kind of space the floor sometimes like they would. A lot of times Carl Anthony Towns is operating in the dunker spot like he did space out at several points tonight. Hit a big second half corner, three out of the left corner.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

Like there's times where he's operating at the three point line, but a lot of times where he's operating under the basket.

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

You know why? Because he's got max truce on him and he wants to post up or

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

even, even in game one, when they were in their Landry Shamit closing group, Carl Anthony Towns was operating out of

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

the dunker spot for the most part, right?

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

So like if you're attacking switches and in their sequences on some of these

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

possessions where Cat and Josh are, either either Josh is in the dunker spot or he's being ignored at the three point line.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

And now Mobley and Allen are just basically just roaming in the middle of the paint. It just gives your on ball defenders

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

a lot more leeway to make life more difficult on Jalen Brunson.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

And so essentially it turned into this dynamic where by bringing in Landry Shamit,

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

it created more of a traditional 4 out 1 in spacing look, with a

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

lot more room there in the middle of the floor.

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

And Brunson caught fire and he. And he really was able to drive that late run that ended up winning the game for the Knicks in game one.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

And so what I was curious about

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

coming into game two was like, okay, well, let's see if Josh ends up

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

shooting the ball well enough to. Or scoring the ball well enough to. To reverse that dynamic, or if Mike Brown's going to have to. If Mike Brown's going to have to

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

make the adjustment sooner than later and

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

go to Landry Shamon. And the first thing that happened in this game was a lot of what we saw in game one. Josh Hart came out ice cold, missed

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

his first three threes, had like a kind of a janky shot in the lane that he missed on, like a

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

turnaround over his left shoulder over Jared Allen. And it kind of reminded me of

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

what happened in game. Game two of the Thunder series, where one of the things I talked about

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

after game one was like, I wonder if Dag not will just give him a longer leash. Meaning, like, okay, the dynamic is the same. If it doesn't work, we'll switch things up. But, like, let him make a couple

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

mistakes, him miss a couple shots, give

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

him a little bit more burn to

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

see if he can flip the dynamic, right?

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

And for the record, early in game one of the.

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

Or game two of the Western Conference

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

Finals, the Isaiah Hartenstein stuff wasn't going tremendously well. The spurs did have an early lead

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

in that game, right?

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

But Degnal stuck with him and gave him a ton of opportunity and a ton of burn.

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

And he. It paid dividends, especially in the fourth quarter when Isaiah Hartenstein had a million offensive rebounds the way he did and really kind of kicked Wemby's ass on the glass, right?

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

Similar dynamic tonight. Mike Brown just gave Josh Hart a leash, just gave him a long leash to make some mistakes and miss some

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

shots early in the game.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

And then what happened?

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

They started to fall.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

You hit, you see one go down, you drive a closeout in score like you did off Jared Allen in the first half. And then all of a sudden, like, you find your rhythm and you find your confidence, and all of a sudden

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

the hoop feels like it's 10ft wide

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

because these are wide open shots coming out of good rhythm sequences where he's catching the ball with his feet squared with plenty of time, and he's getting

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

great lift up into that shot and he's knocking it down consistently.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

And so I just thought Mike Brown

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

just Giving Josh a nice long leash

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

to kind of figure it out tonight was a huge part of what drove an explosion again. A playoff career high 26 points from Josh Hart made the entire coverage work. The, the.

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

I should say the, the.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

The.

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

The Cavs coverage not work, but work in favor of, of. Of New York.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

The second piece of it too is like there was two sides to the

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

ball in that equation in game one.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

I thought Josh Hart really struggled to

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

guard Donovan Mitchell in game one.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

And I thought whether it was just Josh putting in better effort or Donovan Mitchell being a little banged up or some combination of the two, I just thought Josh held up a lot better

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

in his, in his on ball reps against Donovan Mitchell as well.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

And so it just turned into a game where all of a sudden, instead

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

of being, you know, kind of a liability, Josh was one of the primary driving forces of the success that the Knicks were having in this game. Just an absolute monster night from Josh Hart.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

You know, there's.

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

We're going to talk about the Cavs in a minute. I don't want to write them off because the Cavs are capable, playing a lot better than they have, and we'll talk about all the reasons why later.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

But the Knicks, there has been a clear advantage in their shot quality overall

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

since the adjustment from Mike Brown to get away from the super aggressive trapping that he was doing in the first game. We talked about this after game one, but there was just like a lot

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

of like blitzing with Carl Anthony Towns and like double teaming with Jalen Brunson in, in screening action. And you know, it just created these four on threes that were like wide open, like like tons and tons of

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

space with tons of opportunity to make decision.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

And the Cavs were getting like really clean looks for great shooters on the weak side. And by virtue of just kind of

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

going to more traditional coverages, like a

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

hedging recovery with Brunson mixed in with

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

some switches with Brunson, and then the more traditional kind of high drop coverage that they run with Cat where they tag from the weak side, it still

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

allows the Cavs to get the ball into the pocket. It still allows them to throw the

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

pass out of the hedge.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

It still opens up some of the same initial reads, but in more of a condensed floor closer to the basket where the rotations are shorter and it's

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

just more manageable for the Knicks to close those gaps.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

And really that becomes the story of

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

the game when you look at the

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

two sides of the ball, because on the other end of the floor Every

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

single time the Cavs tried to switch

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

James Harden onto Jalen Brunson, he just

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

got an awesome look.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

So, like, one of the things we

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

talked about in Game one was like,

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

can Harden just do a better job

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

sitting in a stance and sliding his feet?

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

I think we've seen enough from two games now to be like, all right, like, James can't.

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

Like, he just can't.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

It's even on the plays where he

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

does manage to keep Brunson in front. He's just really comfortable knocking down something over the top of him.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

So if that's the case, then there's

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

gotta be some sort of two on the ball sequence.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

Now, I, I, I'm gonna complain about

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

some of the Cavs too, on the ball sequences in a minute because they're

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

still sticking with this weird, like, drop coverage thing that they did with James

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

and some soft double teams, which I thoroughly disagree with.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

But the dynamic is you're effectively putting, you're defending the Brunson ISOs two on

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

one in a variety of different ways,

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

and then on the other end of the floor, you're defending the Cavs ball screens three on two, right? So what that means is you're playing

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

advantage basketball on both ends of the floor.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

And the real difference in the series at this point is how much better the Knicks have been at paying off those sequences compared to the Cavs paying off those sequences. And I want to shout out both

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

the Knicks defense and offense in this

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

situation, because their defense just, frankly, the way they close those gaps and shrink those driving lanes and, and pressure shooters on closeouts is making some of these openings shut pretty quickly and forcing the Cavs to rush what are, what are

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

Otherwise some pretty good opportunities.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

And that's just a credit to them. Like the, the way they are in

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

the gaps and how they close back

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

out, how fast OG Anunobi and Mikhail

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

Bridges are in rotation, I'd include Josh Hart in that as well.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

The job of their bigs on the

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

back line, like, they're just doing a

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

great job rotating out of the four on threes and making it so that instead of a wide open catch and

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

shoot three, it's a slightly rushed catch and shoot three.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

If the play gets into the pocket, there's a little bit of pressure there

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

and that guy is fumbling the ball a little bit.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

There's a little bit of indecisiveness in

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

the high, low spacing in the middle of the paint there between Jared Allen and Evan Mobley when they one of them catches in the middle and the others in the dunker spot, sometimes they're

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

doing a great job, like, stunting and, like, making that guy feel like he's open, but he's really not. But, like, the lob pass isn't open either. And so what is he going to do? Oh, now Jared Allen's shooting a floater

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

and Evan Mobley's in the dunker spot. You're like, what are you doing?

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

Like, there's a lot of those kinds of sequences that are generated from the Knicks just playing well in the 3 on 4 and rotating out of it,

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

shrinking those gaps and making the Cavs uncomfortable.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

The Cavs are also shooting poorly, which

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

we'll talk about in a minute.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

But juxtapose that with the other end of the floor, where let's just take

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

the high, low spacing to start.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

Just having Mikhail Bridges, who, when he flashes to the middle, like, and again, like. So the geometry is different, right? Because for a Cavs ball screen where it's being defended three on two, it's a pocket pass to a short roller. Right in the Brunson ISOs, it's McHale flashing to the middle or occasionally Josh Hart slipping the screen. So the Josh Hart ones, because he's usually the one setting the screen. Those look more like what you've seen

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

on the other end of the floor with the short roll into the gap.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

But with Mikhail Bridges, he's flashing from off ball into the middle and like, his ability to, like, quick catch and turn and fire on a 10 to 15 footer, and that shit is money. Every time like that is a huge asset against a double team. One of the big things that happens when you're spacing the floor in that manner is it creates these borderline impossible rotations or right. So, like, if you don't have someone

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

working out of the middle of the

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

floor, like, let's say you're attacking the

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

double team off the right wing.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

Brunson's got the ball and it's just corner, corner, left wing, dunker spot. Like, when you throw the pass to the left wing, it's a shorter rotation

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

from the left corner to cover that gap. As the team tries to recover out

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

of that sequence by having somebody in the middle of the floor, it creates

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

a very simple passing read. Right.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

Mikhail turns and catches and looks at the rim when he's there. Because it's a four on three. There's three total defenders in the picture when he catches and turns.

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

And fires.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

If Carl Anthony towns, his man steps up, he drops it off to Cat

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

for a Layup right.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

If, if they pinch off of either of the corners, it's corner kick, corner

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

kick in either direction.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

If they stay on cat, stay on the corners, he just turns and fires

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

that little, little ten foot jump shot.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

It creates this super easy sequence of reads. And like you juxtapose, we even talked about this in game. In game one, Evan Mobley's just really

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

struggling to knock down that little ten foot jump shot.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

That was a big part of why he had to start popping for threes at the end of game one, because he just couldn't make that little jumper in the lane. And like, having Mikhail Bridges, who can catch there and quick turn and fire and knock it down is just a huge asset that's paying these sequences off. And so whether it's like, okay, they run that stupid weird drop coverage with James Harden and it's he's guarding OG Anunoby and it's like I just dribble

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

off and I pitch it back to

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

OG right there on the left wing, wide open catch and shoot three. Boom.

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

That's going in.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

Okay, they double team and they rotate

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

to OG But Mikhail flashes to the

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

middle of the paint, just boom.

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

Pocket pass into the middle of the lane. He turns around and knocks down the jump shot.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

There's just there. Even on the times when the Cavs do rotate, well, they drive and kick once or twice and now someone else is wide open for a wide open

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

catch and shoot three.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

Like the two on the ball sequences for the Knicks. With Brunson, we're getting not good shots, but like great shots every single time. And so, you know, yes. Can the Cavs shoot better? Sure. But the Knicks are not going to like, just cool off on some of

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

the shots that they're getting here.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

These are great looks. So like the only way the Cavs are going to be able to flip that dynamic is if they can find some way to defend that causes that

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

shot quality to dip a little bit, even if they do shoot better on the other end of the floor.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

So let's talk a little bit. And again, I should.

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

Before we move to the Cavs, I should just credit Jalen Brunson here for a second. Jalen Brunson's been fucking outrageously good over the course of this postseason run and he deserves a ton of credit.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

I'm not going off the top of my head, say where I'd rank him

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

among playoff players that I've seen this

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

year, but like, he is leading a team that is most likely going to

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

make the finals at this Point the Cavs have come back from down to OH before, so you can't count them out. But the Knicks are a much better team than Detroit. They have a. Are going to be much more difficult to pull off that sort of comeback against.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

He's. This guy's most likely going to lead a Finals team and he's doing it averaging. They came into the night averaging what,

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

28 and a half points a game on 60% true shooting.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

He's been great in his hedging, recovery sequences. He's.

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

He had some rough defensive stretches at various points, like in game one in the third quarter, for example. But for the most part, he's held

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

up defensively well enough, did his job

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

in crunch time defensively in game one as things as they led to comeback.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

He's just been phenomenal and, and again, like he's breaking this Cavs defense by very simply just picking on James Harden and scoring on him at will, and then beating the double team every single time.

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

And that's all you can ask for from an offensive engine in this league. Just Jalen Brunson's been absolutely amazing.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

So now that we've more or less hit the Knicks, I want to talk

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

about the Cavs double teams for a second.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

So those of you guys who watched

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

our film session, and we're going to

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

do another one tomorrow morning, since we're

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

in the conference finals, we'll increase the volume of these film sessions a little bit.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

But we did a film session after

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

game one in on Wednesday morning, if you guys remember.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

And in that video, I broke down

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

the different types of coverages that Cleveland used to try to protect James Harden.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

And it really came down to a

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

handful of different things.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

One, switching and letting him go to work with, you know, some gap help.

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

But it's just really difficult. Cause the Knicks have shooters that can burn gap help pretty easily with just swing passes, but just switching and allowing

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

James Harden to work. Then there was the kind of weird drop coverage that James Harden ran where

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

like essentially they would just have Sam

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

Merrill stay on Brunson and funnel him

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

towards the sideline so they. It's like an ice coverage, essentially. It just looks so funky because it's

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

two guards involved, but you have Merrill basically opening his stance and funneling towards the sideline with James Harden sitting in

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

a drop like 10ft back.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

And Brunson would just basically either throw

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

the pick and pop past OG and Anobi, which is the primary way he'd beat it, or he just drive at

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

Brunson or drive it Hard in and

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

get the defense in rotation that way.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

And then they tried a couple of

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

hard double teams, including on the possession that led to the Landry Shamit game tying shot that sent it to overtime, right? So those are the different things that they're trying the.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

Here, here's this.

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

Basically where I look at it when

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

you, the way I, the way that

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

I look at it, if you're looking

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

at those options and they're all shitty

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

options and that's just the reality about when you're playing the best players in the world, right?

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

Like, I mean, you throw, you throw the kitchen sink at Shea and literally the spurs have given up 52 unguarded

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

catch and shoot jump shots in the first two games.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

52, like that's a crazy number, right? Like, but if you stay home and you let Wy stay on the perimeter against an Alex Caruso or stay on the perimeter against a Chad Holmgren, like if, when they go small, especially like now, all of a sudden you're going to open up the situation where the

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

best driver of the basketball and the best efficient scorer in the league is just working in a lot of single coverage and he's just going to torch you in a different way, right?

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

Like, we talk about this all the time. Every coverage has downsides. And so there's a lot of Monday

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

morning quarterbacking that can go on with this kind of thing.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

But it's very clear through our two games a sample that James can't guard Brunson one on one, and that drop

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

coverage look is not working.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

And the main, the main thing that I have a problem with with the drop coverage look is you're allowing the

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

ball handler to be comfortable.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

So if you're in a four on

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

three, you're already at a disadvantage, right?

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

If the pass makes it to the first read on time, on target, then that guy has the ability to immediately shoot or immediately drive the closeout or immediately make the next read in the chain, right? But if you can disrupt the pass at all, maybe it's high hands that lead to a lob, maybe it's a slight deflection that causes the pass to lose some steam before it gets there. Maybe you just force him to throw a weird angle pass to where instead of it hitting the guy right in the pocket, it makes him like take a step back towards half court or have to bend over to grab it or whatever it might be. Every time you do that, accomplish that goal, you create yourself an additional split second, full second, whatever it might be, to recover it. Also just Gets way harder to shoot, right? Like in last night's game when the spurs ran that hammer action for Devin

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

Vassell in the left corner.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

On the pass from Steph Castle, there's a contest at the rim. He has to kind of go out wide with a hook pass. And when he throws the hook pass, it's too far to Devin Vassell's left hand side. And so he has to like shuffle way to the left and like reach out to catch it. And by the time he sets it back up and gets it in his pocket, he has to rush it now cause the closeouts there and he hits the side of the backboard and like he had just hit a three. But like what you did is by virtue of the pressure, you made the pass difficult. The pass was off target. It bought you time to throw a better closeout. It rushed the shooter. He missed the shot, right. So that's why like if you're gonna double team, double team, if you're gonna double team, pressure the ball. Nick Brunson, feel your presence. You're already operating at a disadvantage and you have shown that you can't rotate out of it anyway in, in the static situation. So like, do they need to rotate better? Yeah, there needs to be. They need to be more on the string, they need to be faster, they need to be communicating with each other. Needs. There needs to be trust down the chain. But you've got to buy yourself an extra second. And the only hope you have to buy yourself an extra second is to actually pressure the ball. So from that standpoint, like there's gotta be a tweak there in some way, shape or form with either committing to the, like committing to the double team and rotating out of it, or you better just sit back in single coverage and let James Harden get cooked. Because if this soft double team thing, all it's doing is giving wide open threes to great shooters. And I don't see any situation where

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

they're going to cool off and start missing them over the course of the series.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

Like there's little things like, yeah, you know, Dennis Schroeder maybe don't close out to Josh Hart on the wing when

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

it's OG and an OB in the corner. Maybe go to OG instead and make Josh Hart shoot. But then again, he hit fuck five threes tonight, right?

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

Like you can nitpick little details in each individual possession where something might have gone off the rails. But big picture, I just think these

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

soft double teams are pointless because you're

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

existing in rotation with no pressure on the ball handler, which is allowing the ball handler in Brunson to make the initial read easily, which is getting you into, into rotation quickly and, and you can't recover. So I, I, I just hope that

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

they have a better plan for that.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

Last thing on the Cavs this, and

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

I'll, when Jackson comes on, I'll pull up the numbers so you guys can see, like, the exact, like, shot quality, like, difference between, you know, how well they're shooting on, like, open catch and shoots versus some of the tougher off the dribble threes that Mitchell and Harden

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

have to take, but, like 9 for 35 from 3 again tonight. The consistent theme throughout this postseason run has been when the Cavs hit their catch and shoot threes off of the pocket pass, they win, and when they don't, they lose. And so if there's one thing that you're trying to cling to if you're a Cavs fan, is that you go home, you play harder in front of your home crowd. You finally figure out some sequences where you can get the ball out of

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

Brunson's hands without giving up a wide open shot every single time.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

And on the other end of the floor, you start to hit some threes. Sam Merrill starts to hit some of these open threes. Donovan Mitchell came Into the night 10 for 45 on catch and shoot threes.

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

He just can't make them this postseason for whatever reason.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

Miss several more of them tonight. Like, they gotta hit some threes. And if they hit some threes, maybe you, you infuse the group with some confidence and you start to defend a little better, you start to get more stops, you get a win, and then you win again in game four. You flip the script of the series just like you did in Detroit, and you come into New York and you

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

play better than you did in these two games, and maybe you give yourself a chance to win.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

We should all, we, none of us should be counting out the Cavs. They have been the biggest gap between floor and ceiling of any playoff team

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

that we've watched this year.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

So, like, this is not the first time they've looked like they suck this postseason, so we can't write them off. But it's going to start with that improved defensive effort, knocking down some of these catch and shoot threes, more pressure on the ball on Jalen Brunson, and then building some momentum towards trying to

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

get this thing back to New York at 2. 2.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

All right, let's bring Jackson up.

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

Let's take some questions from the chat

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

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[Guest Analyst]

Let's do it. What is going on? Chad? Good to, good to see everyone again. Good to be back. First question, bigger issue for the Cavs. Missed free throws and open threes or a flawed defensive game plan? Sort of what you were alluding to with the in betweenness of their double teaming.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

So I would say the, I would say the bigger issue is the defensive

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

scheming because like the shooting has come

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

and gone for them all postseason in

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

terms of the catch and shoot stuff.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

We talked about that. Like they really, really since for the entire first round and game one and game two of the, of the second

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

round, they shot like it was really

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

like game three, four, five that they

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

started to kind of pick up their catch and shoot play and start to find some rhythm there.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

So like that, that to me is

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

going to come and go.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

I think that, I just think the

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

Cavs will hit more threes in game

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

three and I, I, that I'm not really worried about. But even if you do hit a

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

bunch of threes in game three, you

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

can Lose this thing fast just simply

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

with, with the Knicks being able to stay as hot as they are.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

Like take the early third quarter run for example. So they tie it on like the

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

Donovan Mitchell windmill gather and, and it's like 53, 53.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

And I think they immediately went on a 140 run if I remember correctly. And in that stretch it's like, like Mitchell and Harden just went cold. Like Mitchell missed a couple of shots around the rim. James missed a step back three. As a team, they missed some catch and shoot looks. There were some botched high low sequences. Like there was one where they hit Jared Allen on the baseline out of the high low and Jared Allen just missed both free throws. There's another one where Jared Allen had Evan Mobley, but instead of passing it to him, he like shot a floater and missed it. They, they just had an ugly offensive sequence that, you know, a lot of it was just kind of some missed shots in there. But on the other end of the floor, the Knicks are just a machine and they can make shots. And Josh Hart was hitting threes. They were scoring in transition. And like to me the, the uglier part of that run is just you couldn't get a stop there for like a solid 34 minute stretch and you lost control of the game. So they need to increase their defensive

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

baseline to be able to weather some of this poor shooting better than they have.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

And their only hope to do that

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

is if they can find a scheme that works protecting Brunson.

[Guest Analyst]

Next question. There was a report that the Cavs promised Harden a new contract this summer. I can't imagine the Cavs or any team for that matter wants to sign Harden for more than a one year deal. He has proven time and time again he's not consistently reliable in the playoffs. You your thoughts?

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

I am going to.

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

I haven't even looked at the numbers yet here, so I'm going to pull them up just to. To see.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

But like I think the James Harden thing has been a little overblown defensively.

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

This Brunson piece is legitimate criticism.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

But like how many players in this

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

playoff field can credibly guard Jayla Brunson? Like there's not that many.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

He just is this.

[Guest Analyst]

And, and how many and how many of the to. To narrow it to be a little bit even fairer to Harden? How many like lead ball handlers, like never mind like defensive guys, like guys who are actually scorers first or like initiators first are, are able to guard.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

Exactly.

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

Great point.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

And like let's say James Harden's not

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

out there and it's Darius Garland. It's the same thing. Darius Garland is getting attacked by James Harden in the middle of or by Jalen Brunson in the middle four.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

Let's say that it's Atkinson benches him and plays.

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

I don't know Dennis Schroeder in that spot.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

Like, your spacing is shittier. Now all the ball handling responsibility falls

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

on Mitchell, except for, you know, the handful of shorter possessions mixed in.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

And then Brunson's just picking on Mitchell

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

in the middle of the floor.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

Like, does Harden need to do better? Sure. But like, I would argue Brunson's going

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

to solve that problem regardless of who it is that's out there.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

I think some of the discussion surrounding

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

Harden and his shot creation is overblown because some. So for instance, like our, our mutual friend Nick Wright has talked about like the, the games that Harden has had where he's had more turnovers than made field goals.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

And while I think that is fair

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

criticism in the sense that like James,

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

take care of the fucking ball, dude. And these games where you keep missing,

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

you know, nine of your 14 shots are brutal.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

But there are so many hockey assists

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

with Harden where he gets the ball

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

in the pocket, like him being enough of a threat that he is dictating

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

a coverage that brings the big to the level on many of these possessions

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

and hitting in the pocket to Mobley

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

and there being a four on three

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

and that ball getting skipped to the

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

weak side and a guy hitting a 3 and that doesn't count as an assist for James Harden.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

Like, to put it very Simply, he's run 391 pick and rolls and isos

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

in this postseason run and he's got

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

386 points including passes, basically a point per possession. So like for all the talk about the, you know, the like turnovers versus made field goals, James Harden as a shot creator, as a secondary shot creator, meaning like not even the guy you're relying on is your best player is giving you a point per possession in the half court. There's been frustration, there's been plays that he's been maddening for me to watch on film where above and beyond the

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

Brunson stuff, just like of him missing

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

a defensive rebound here, him throwing the ball away, not running back on defense there, like he's had his ugly moments, but like for what the Cavs signed

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

up for in a secondary ball handler in James Harden, I feel like he's actually kind of like exceeded expectations in the sense that he's been way more

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

reliable there than Darius Garland was. And for all the talk about his

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

limitations elsewhere, those limitations existed with Garland as well.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

I just think, like, I think for all the talk about Harden, this stretch where he struggled with Brunson is the

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

only real time where he's felt like a fail point.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

And even then, there might have just

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

been a different Brunson fail point in this matchup if it wasn't Harden.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

So, like, it's just, to me, it's on Kenny to figure out a way

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

to get a stop as a team with this in this group. And, and that's going to be a tall tale or a tall task, and

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

he's going to have to figure it out. But like, like, I would argue, like, the more disappointing person in the series

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

has been Mitch or in this playoff run has been Mitchell.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

Mitchell has just been awesome some nights and bad others. And like, that's the kind of thing

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

you expect from a secondary star, not from a guy who's trying to lead a team to a championship.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

Like, if Jalen Brunson was having these

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

kinds of hot and cold nights the way that Mitchell's had, you don't think

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

Jalen Brunson would be getting a bunch of criticism, right?

[Guest Analyst]

And like, there's, I've seen a couple of times in the chat, not tonight, but in past nights where people have been like, can we, can we all finally admit that Jalen Brunson is better than Donovan Mitchell? And it's like on we think that he's always Donovan Mitchell, but to the, but to the point that you're making about Donovan, Mitchell's supposed to be this guy and he's not being this guy. I do think the general lack of intensity and care is an issue for James Harden, but the, I think the, like, Garland would be way better for them. This was a huge mistake of a trade. It just, I think that's a little bit of a. I don't know if I quite agree.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

Yeah, like, let me, let me put it this way. Like, I would argue James Harden when Donovan Mitchell was unable to create anything

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

good against Landry Shame at down the stretch in crunch time, James Harden created a boatload of advantages for Evan Mobley in picking pops and in like, short rolls and in screen and slips for Sam Merrill.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

And like, frankly, like, that's the job. If you have a ball handler that can create advantage in the postseason, that's the job. And like, Mobley couldn't make a bucket down the stretch to that game. Like we talked about the juxtaposition between

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

him and Mikhail Bridges.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

And like, again, like, I'm not trying to sit here and pretend like James hasn't been an issue.

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

He has.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

His inability to guard Brunson is the

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

fail point right now.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

I just think, like, he, there's a reason why you can't bench him, and it's because he still is by far the best vehicle the Cavs have to generate a good shot because Mitchell is a little tunnel vision and he doesn't make the pick and roll reads as consistently as James Harden does. Like, I, I, like I'm sitting here watching the, in early in the game and like, Harden's running a ball screen

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

towards the left side and like, kind of starting from the middle and he works around the left lane line and he just rifles a perfect skip pass on a dime to Sam Merrill in the shooting pocket.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

Just breaks the three and it's like, it's like, I, I, these teams should be killing for a Sam Merrill open

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

catch and shoot three like that.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

That's. You've won the battle. You've done what you're supposed to do. The guy was like, over six or over seven on threes tonight. Or I don't have the box in front of you. But like, like, at a certain point, like, James is doing some harm. He's also doing some good. And like, way too often in the

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

discussion, that part has been glossed over, in my opinion.

[Guest Analyst]

Yeah, I, I mean, we've seen the Cavs fail in very similar ways in past seasons. Or maybe Darius Garland just wasn't available, which I think it's very fair to criticize James Harden. And it's also very fair to at this point be like, what is up with his Cavs construct? The, Aside from Donovan Mitchell and James Harden, the other three starters that they have, their whole thing is they're supposed to be great defenders. They had the defensive player of the year two years ago with Evan Mobley. They have Jared Allen and Dean Wade. Like, if that's, if this collectively is not good enough defensively, then that's maybe an issue with Donovan Mitchell. Maybe it's an issue with those other guys and maybe it's an issue with James Harden, or maybe it's all of the above. It's probably all of the above.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

Yeah.

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

Great point.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

And like, I, I think, like, even when you talk about, like, let's, let's

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

imagine a future where LeBron decides, hey, I'm going to go sign with Cleveland on the veteran minimum, does he help? To the point you're making about how there's like a variety of issues.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

Does he help with the high, low space? Like, like LeBron slipping out of a ball screen with James hard in the middle of the floor. Like, that's, that's either going to be a dunk for him or a dunk

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

for Mobley or a dunk for Allen every single time because he's such a good lob passer.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

And like all season long he's been

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

so good at that specific read, like driving at the rim and then just feeding Ayton right under the basket for like a dunk or something like. Like that. I expect LeBron to come back and shoot the basketball better next year too. So maybe he brings a more reliable catch and shoot play than what you got from Evan Mobley.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

Whatever it is, like, it opens up like this weird three big construct.

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

Kind of like Randall Nasrid, Gobert where it's like LeBron, Mobley, Allen, all that.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

All that sounds great. And that helps a lot of things.

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

LeBron gives you matchup attacking, the ability to post up other players and more successfully generate clean shots without having to run pick and roll every damn time.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

It doesn't solve the other problem, which

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

is the Harden being attacked in the middle of the floor by a Brunson. And now we're in rotation things.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

So like, you have to have a solution for that problem no matter what. Like, I would argue to the point you made earlier about how like every

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

guard in the league struggles with this.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

Like, every team in the league needs to have a scheme to protect their skill guard. Like even OKC has that. Like, you have to have like the, this is what we do when they

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

try to target our skill guard.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

And it just feels like Cleveland has

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

no real like organization on that front when they're trying to protect Harden there.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

So like that.

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

That to me is the challenge that Kenny's got for the next couple of days.

[Guest Analyst]

And I also think that some teams, not every team obviously, but some teams, their best player offensively is good enough as an offensive player to not have to have this kind of secondary ball handler.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

Right?

[Guest Analyst]

Like Luka Doncic, the Lakers, I have Austin Reeves. But if you put in Luka Doncic for Donovan Mitchell, you don't need James Harden. You can put Keon Ellis or someone else in that spot, right? Because some, very few, but some players are good enough to. Where you don't need the secondary guy as much. You obviously need him a little bit. You don't need, you don't necessarily need James Harden. If you have Luka, doncic But Donovan Mitchell is just not Luka Doncic. He's just not that guy. So you, you quite. We've seen what their offense looked like in past years also, when Garland's been out there, they need more offense generated than just with Donovan Mitchell. So you can't just stick Keon Ellis there and say, okay, we, like, we did it on the defensive end.

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

It just doesn't quite work exactly to that point. That would be. That's another fascinating element of like, a potential LeBron fit, which, like, by the

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

way, like, I was so out on

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

LeBron leaving LA at all until I watched the Western Conference finals and then I watched the Western Conference finals and I'm like, lebron, run.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

Run for your life.

[Guest Analyst]

Get out of this conference.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

Get the hell out of that conference, dude. But like, to your point, like, Harden

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

is so necessary right now as a ball handler.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

But like, you can imagine a universe where it's like, okay, James, you played great.

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

We're gonna put max at the 2. By the way, Max was trash tonight.

[Guest Analyst]

He's terrible. I'm a fan.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

Every bit as bad on defense as

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

he was on offense.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

I wonder if he's feeling something physically

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

because he was leaving a lot of shots short.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

And. And like that bizarre play where the. The Knicks had that like, five shooter lineup.

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

It was late third or early fourth,

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

and he like, gave up that open. Like, he just like played with an

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

open stance and just allowed. I can't even remember who it was to drive. I think it was Deuce McBride, but somebody drove right by him and scored. Jordan Clarkson, I think it was.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

But like, like, maybe it ends up

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

being a situation where it's like, okay,

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

we're playing LeBron at the 3 with

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

Sam Merrill at the 2 with Mitchell, or.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

Or like, we're playing LeBron and Mobley

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

at the 45 alongside, like a better Jaylen Tyson next year and Merrill at the two.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

Like that. That. One of the things that, like, makes

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

that fit intriguing is like, it gives

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

you the luxury to be like, okay, we're playing the Pistons.

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

James holds up better. We can have him out there. Oh, now we got to play the Knicks.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

We need to have a lineup where

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

we can close without James if we need to.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

Because, like, it is. It is an issue. Like, part of the issue with James

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

too, is he's not a great rotation player. What I mean by that is, like, let's say you do successfully double team the ball out of Brunson's hands.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

He's not the guy that's flying around

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

off the ball after that, I think

[Guest Analyst]

that's as big of a problem as just like getting cooked in. I show as anything.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

And that was the Luca problem, by

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

the way, with the Lakers.

[Guest Analyst]

Like yes, absolutely.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

To Brunson's credit. Like Brunson throws a hedge and he

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

gets the fuck out of there and he and he runs back to the

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

next guy like he's all the best skill guards that have become decent two way players. Not that I'm saying Brunson's a two

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

way player because he's not.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

But like that have made themselves survivable

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

with these defensive weaknesses.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

All of them find some way to protect themselves. And like with Steph it was the hedge and recover. With Brunson it's the hedge and recover. But with the small guard, it's always

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

the ability to cover ground in rotation because that's the one thing you can do with your body is you can

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

be fast, you can't be big, you can't be strong. You're not going to be Landry.

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

Shame it beating a dude to a spot and taking contact in the chest. But you can be fast and, and that's the thing that Harden lacks that makes him kind of a tough matchup in this situation.

[Guest Analyst]

No question. Okay. A question from Kaylin about the Knicks. He said it seems that the Knicks and OG and Anobi are being more conscious regarding his minutes, you know, in his return from injury and also OG specifically when he's playing, playing, it seems like he's being a little more cautious in terms of driving to the basket, picking his spots. In terms of driving to the basket. Do you agree with that? And do you feel like that's sort of a temporary thing while he's just working back or that's. Do you expect him to sort of be at this level for the rest of the playoffs?

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

I think the minute load is a good point. When we were talking when Jackson and

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

I were doing our three big takeaways from the postseason on Monday, we talked about how the the minute loads for the remaining teams were all super low.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

It's actually become a weird subplot in the spurs series.

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

I shared the stat on the Zach Lowe show today, but there are four spurs that have touched 80 minutes already in the first round or in this. Sorry. In the first two games of the conference finals, there is one Thunder player

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

who's touched 70 minutes and that's Jay Gilders Alexander. The spurs starting lineup has played 41 minutes together. The Thunder do not have a single

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

lineup in this series. Just played 10 minutes yet.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

So like they're keeping their minutes down,

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

which is allowing them to play with their hair on fire, which is in turn allowing them to like legitimately outwork the spurs the way they did down the stretch of the game.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

Similarly with the Knicks and we talked

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

about this like when you dug through

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

the minute loads for the rest of

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

the the four remaining teams coming into

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

the series, there was this the two

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

highest minutes played guys were Mitchell and Harden, actually ironically around 37 minutes per game.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

But the next guy on that list I think was 31. So 31st most minutes per game played

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

and it was OG Anunoby at 35. He was the guy that was playing more minutes than any other Nick.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

And so it seems to me, let's

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

see, he played just under 32 tonight. I'm pulling up game one real quick.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

But he played just under 32 tonight

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

and he played 34 in game one. So you're his average has come down

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

two minutes per game from where he was.

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

But like, I wouldn't say that it's necessarily been intentional. I think part of it too is like Josh Hart playing much better but then also finding minutes. For shame it because he played so well and has been guarding Mitchell well that it's allowed them to keep his minutes down. I don't necessarily think it's anything intentional as far as the drives go. He had two big drives at the end of Game 1, the one where he tried for the dunk and he missed it and got fouled and then the one where James Harden stripped him on the way down.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

So like I think, I think there's been less need for him to drive

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

in tonight's game because of how much Josh Hart and Mikhail Bridges were working in the middle of the floor and they were running some high, low spacing stuff. So the driving lanes weren't really there. Whereas in game one it was four out one in spacing. There was nobody in the middle of the floor and you were driving closeouts. So there's more of a need for that specifically.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

So I to answer your question, Caitlin,

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

I don't think there's anything intentional on either front there.

[Guest Analyst]

Another Knicks question. If the Knicks make the finals and you know, say they wrap this series up in in five while OKC San Antonio goes seven and then also OKC and San Antonio have some guys who are banged up. We don't know. It's hard to say at this point how banged up those guys are when they're going to be back, if they're going to be back. But if the Knicks get to rest a bit more than a banged up Western Conference champion, how, how much does that sort of even the, the playing field a little bit.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

Bit.

[Guest Analyst]

I don't, I don't think the Knicks would be favored, you know, even if one of those guys was out, J Dub or Harper, whoever. But how much would that, those injuries and the rest advantage theoretically make up for that gap?

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

I think it certainly helps. I, I think San Antonio in particular

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

is the team that's looking really vulnerable because of the injuries.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

Because Dear and Fox, it's not just

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

an ankle sprain, it's an inverted ankle sprain, like a high ankle sprain. And, and those are gnarly and they can linger for a while. And Mitch Johnson basically all but said he's going to be dealing with that the rest of the postseason.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

Dylan Harper, like, it's, they're saying adductor,

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

but like this like soft tissue thing going on with his leg. That's not going to get better playing every other night versus playing versus the Thunder.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

Like, best case scenario for Dylan Harper

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

is Dear and Fox comes back and you cut both of their minutes and both of them are playing like 27 minutes a game and it makes that more tenable. But like San Antonio is breaking down and like let's say San Antonio wins. That would be a big advantage for The Knicks.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

The A.J. mitchell quad injury apparently is nothing but

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

a contusion, so he's fine.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

And I think the Thunder are not better without J Dub, but every bit

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

is capable of winning the title, like without J Dub, as, as we saw basically this entire season because J Dub's barely been available.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

So like, I think the Knicks have a shot to beat the Thunder, but I don't think the Thunder would go

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

into that series being like, oh my God, we're exhausted, we can't play the Knicks. I think it would still present a lot of the same problems.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

Whereas I, I do think the Knicks

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

best shot is they beat Cleveland. Wemby drags the spurs to the finals with a six or seven game win over the Thunder, where Harper and Fox are beat the shit and Wemby himself is banged up. And then the Knicks are fresh and they just handle an exhausted spurs team.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

So like, I like to make a long story short, the Knicks fans should

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

feel great about their chances.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

But I still, I still think that

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

if OKC wins, I would make them a pretty substantial favorite over New York.

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[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

Big props to this team.

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[Malcolm Glebel]

Hello, this is Malcolm Glebel from Smart talks with IBM. Today we're diving into a fascinating conversation with Stefano Pallard, head of fan development for Scuderia Ferrari hp.

[Stefano Pallard]

Your pronunciation is strongly American. It's more Scuderia Ferrari.

[Malcolm Glebel]

I'm still working on rolling my R's, but what I was able to learn from Stefano was the importance of engaging the Tifosi, the Ferrari super fans in the digital age.

[Stefano Pallard]

Ferrari fans and super fans want to be part of something, want to belong to something. So they want to be part of a community and ultimately they want to be part of a winning team.

[Malcolm Glebel]

You've got Ferrari, which, which is a long history, design history, and now you're interacting in a kind of digital space. I'm curious how you balance those two traditions.

[Stefano Pallard]

When it comes to fan engagement, it's really digital technology. And digital channels, are they enabled to create a deeper connection with our fans?

[Malcolm Glebel]

To learn more about how Ferrari and IBM are using technology to build deeper connections with fans, visit IBM.com/ferrari.

[Guest Analyst]

Yeah, it's also, even if that Western Conference series goes seven, there will still be four, three or four days in between that and game one. Just because they always give time between the conference finals and the finals. And also the Western Conference is obviously at like a one day prior to the east cadence just based on the order of the games.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

Yeah, game seven is on the 30th

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

and then I believe the first game of the finals is on the third.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

So yeah, you're right.

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

So they'd have three full days off no matter what. And that's even if that's even okay, Right?

[Guest Analyst]

A couple more questions. First one, what should the spurs game plan be tomorrow if both Fox and Harper are out?

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

If you had to handle a game

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

like that, I'd prefer it being in a game at home for sure. It's just so difficult because like Steph Castle.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

There's this thing that's like, oh my

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

God, Steph Castle, 20 turnovers. This is so ridiculous.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

And my thought process on that is

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

like he is literally turning the ball over this much because it's a combination of his normal turnover issues which he's always had. He's always been a high turnover player,

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

but he just has so much of

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

this usage foisted on him by the injuries that he's fatiguing as he brings the ball up the floor constantly, which is creating a dynamic where he's making like mental fatigue turnovers.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

And like, I really do think if

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

Harper and Fox were both available, Steph Castle's turnovers would cut in half. Like so much of this is just a product of him just having an enormous amount of usage.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

Everything about them winning in game three

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

without their two guards would be about defense and just strangling the life out of OKC with an all world defensive effort.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

OKC is due to cool off on some jump shooting. Like let me pull these numbers up

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

that I had for Zach Lowe today because these were crazy.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

So OKC unguarded catch and shoot threes

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

in the series, 25 for 50.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

And like good they were. They were a good shooting team on unguarded shots in the regular season.

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

They were about like low 40s, like 41, 42.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

But 50 is wild. Case in Wallace and Alex caruso combined

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

are 17 for 29 from 3 3. Isn't that batshit?

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

Like it's.

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

It's. Yeah.

[Malcolm Glebel]

And.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

And San Antonio, who by the way was the third best three point shooting

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

team in the league post all star break this year. They are 9 for 27 on unguarded catch and shoot threes in the post in this series. So they're shooting 33.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

Champagne hasn't been able to make anything.

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

Steph Castle hasn't been able to make anything.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

So like I think they could win a game just by defending really hard.

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

OKC not shooting as well.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

Them shooting better, but their only shot

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

to win the series is if at least one of Fox or Harper are able to go when things matter.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

The thing as far as the big adjustments go. And again, I got into a ton

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

of detail with this with Zach today,

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

but the big adjustment that I expect

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

is different attempts to get Wemby disconnected from Hartenstein.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

And that involves one more ISOs of

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

Hartenstein to try to get him into foul trouble.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

Essentially just putting the onus on the

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

officials through like really aggressive driving moves to try to get them to blow the whistle.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

Because if he's off the floor. The sequence that I point to is early third quarter, he gets the fourth

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

foul, and Hartenstein on the lob pass, which by the way, came from him getting disconnected in a lob through a good screen.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

But you draw the foul, Hartenstein has to go sit. They bring in J.

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

Will and Wemby just cooks J. Will for like five straight minutes. Just fries his ass.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

So, like, you got to get Hardenstein

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

off the floor somehow. Foul trouble is the best way to do that.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

But while, while he's out there, there's a lot of pressure on him to

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

get good screen set because if he sets good screens, it gets Hartenstein disconnected from his body. If Hardenstein gets disconnected disconnected from his

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

body, he can get into his bag a little bit more in terms of

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

like getting into his off the dribble game.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

And it opens up situations for him

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

either to get switched onto a guard or to have an opportunity to. To get open on like a roll or some sort of slip towards the basket.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

So I think the entire chess match

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

of game three centers on the Hartenstein problem and, and getting them off because,

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

like, it's very simple. When Hardenstein's off the floor, the spurs are just so much bigger, stronger and

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

taller than the Thunder at basically every position.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

But they can't take advantage of that

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

dynamic if Hardenstein's beating the shit out of Wimby. So they've got to find a way to get Hartenstein off the floor. I think that's going to be the biggest plot line. My guess, if I had to guess, I think the spurs are going to win game three. And the way I think it's going to happen is Hardenstein is going to pick up two fouls in the first four minutes and he's going to get something out of the game. The defense is going to be unbelievable. The Thunder won't shoot as well, and I think the spurs will win relatively comfortably by like 15 points or so. And then what I think is going to happen is that like it always is in these playoff series, Game four is going to be a fucking war. And it's going to be super physical. And Hart and Stein is going to

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

get away with a lot of that shit again.

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

He's going to be up around 27, 28 minutes, and it's going to look a lot like what happened in game two. And I think whoever wins that game probably wins the series. That's basically how I feel about the series as we head into San Antonio.

[Guest Analyst]

Yeah, I think the hard sign, I mean, it's not just normal beating, you know, playoff war stuff from him. With the. With the way these videos that have been going so viral, you know, the hair pull of Castle and some of the arm grabs of Wemby, I think the odds he picks up early fouls is. Is high.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

High. Can we talk officiating for just a second?

[Guest Analyst]

Yeah, for sure.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

So this is one of the big storylines that's going around, and I just

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

have very simple thoughts on it.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

I think that there is some truth

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

to the fact that Steph Castle is grabbing Shea as well.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

And there's a certain amount of, like,

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

we're letting Steph do this, but we're also letting Isaiah Hardenstein do that.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

I think there were a couple of

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

egregious examples where he didn't get calls, and that is where I think that you'll see some more gray area go towards San Antonio, specifically ones where, like,

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

Wemby is reaching to go block a

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

shot and Hartenstein's yanking on his arm, like, holding him back on the ground. And there were like, four or five examples like that in the game,

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

like,

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

little things like him yanking Steph Castle's hair. Like, those are the kinds of calls that are probably going to go towards San Antonio in Game 3.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

But, like, I do generally agree with the idea that, like, every great big

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

in playoff history has gotten their ass kicked physically, and Wemby just, frankly, is more susceptible to that.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

And so I don't have any problem with Hartenstein doing it.

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

I don't think it's cheating.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

I think it's smart.

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

I think it's the. I. I think it's like, if I was coaching the Thunder, like, if I

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

was Mark Dangold, I go up to Isaiah Hartenstein and say, you do the

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

exact same shit in game three. Like, that is exactly what we need to do.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

We have looked way better in this matchup with you doing that than anything else we've tried.

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

So please go ahead and do that.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

So I don't have any problem with it. I'm simply saying, and I said this in last night's show, you guys would be foolish to not think that there's a version of that game where he

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

gets whistled for some of that stuff and he ends up going towards the bench without trouble early.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

It's just something we need to be

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

aware of as we move forward in the series.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

On the Shea flopping thing, one of the things that stood out to me in that game was he wasn't getting calls. And, like, my friend Tom Haberstroke released this, like, Love top.

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

Yeah. Tom's amazing.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

He released this kind of breakdown of the.

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

The. The numbers of times that Shea has flopped in. In each game, and it was like

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

five for five of his shot attempts

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

in game one and eight of his shot attempts in game two.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

And on the one hand, I laughed because he was making a point, which was like, there was this video going viral that's like, man, Shea flops on every one of his shot attempts, and

[Guest Analyst]

Tom's like, every single.

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

Actually, he only flops on 27% of his shot attempts.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

But at the same time, it's like, there's another way you can read that, which is like, well, he only flopped eight times last time, which is so funny to me. But, like, I think that's underselling it too, because there were probably another eight

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

flops that had to do with, like, reach ins or ball pressure. Like, things along those lines where he just fell because someone was being physical with him.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

But, like, as I was watching the game, I remember thinking, like, I don't have a problem with this because he's not getting the call. And this goes back to what we talked about Jackson, like, about a week

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

and a half ago or so.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

The refs have been really good in this postseason at not rewarding grips.

[Guest Analyst]

Mostly.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

Yeah, they've been outstanding.

[Guest Analyst]

Agreed.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

Like, really, the only pro. The only call I had a problem with was the one on Jordan McLaughlin

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

where he took the shot at the elbow and then just fell down. That was a bad call.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

Yeah, but, like, there, he shot six free throws despite the fact that he fell on the ground like, 16 times. So really, Shay's just hurting himself there now. What I. What I thought was funny is the. The. Some of the discussion going around. It's like, oh, well, actually, this is

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

what jump shooters do to protect themselves.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

And it's like, okay, so let's.

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

Let's unpack this just. Just a little bit.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

Okay, first of all, if that's the case, why was he flopping so much

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

more in game two than he was in game one?

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

Like, was he not protecting himself in game one, and then he decided to protect himself in game two? Like, we have literally seen Shea in this postseason. Like, look at game one against Phoenix, and then look at game two against Phoenix and look at the difference in

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

the amount of times that he hit the floor. So, like, that doesn't make any sense to me.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

And then two, like, any whatever benefit

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

you think there might be biomechanically is

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

canceled out by the fact that you're

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

allowing the other team to get going. In transition defense, your ass is on the floor.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

Well.

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

Or transition offense, because your ass is on the floor.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

So, like, I. I just push back on that concept. Like, do I think it's smart to fall if a player is quite literally underneath you? Yeah. Because you don't want to sprain your ankle.

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

Like, there's a certain amount of that,

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

but, like, the idea that you should just fall on every single jump shot

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

to protect yourself is, like, asinine to me. And, like, I thought that that was some shameless defending of what. Of what Shane was doing in that game.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

My thing with it has been he

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

wasn't getting the call, so I had

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

no problem with the officiating. I also had no problem with what

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

Art and Stein was doing to Wemby. I just think people should be aware

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

that there's a version of that where

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

Hartenstein picks up more calls.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

Everything about it is just aesthetics. Like, you tell me. Yes, you tell me.

[Guest Analyst]

Right.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

Like, because I.

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

Everyone gets separated into camps.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

It's like, okay, you're either Shea hater

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

who only focuses on the flopping, or a person who, like, truly respects his game.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

And I'm like, like, you on both. Like, Like, I. I love Shay. I think he's incredible. I thought he was amazing. And, like, I remember when he fell for the 17th time on that catch and shoot three at the top of the key. I sent you a video of it last night while you were trying to enjoy a concert. Like, what?

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

I'm literally just like, this is kind

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

of shameless, and it's kind of like, it. Like. And I don't understand why we can't

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

all, like, kind of meet in the middle and be like, oh, my God, Shay's amazing, but this kind of thing where he falls over all the time is a little hard to watch.

[Guest Analyst]

Yeah. There's so many people giving with so many opinions on it all. And, like, I saw Ethan Strauss quote the Tom Haberstro thing, and he was, like, similar to the point you were making, where he's like, oh, well, if. If they're not calling yet and he's hitting the floor, that's actually giving the other team an advantage, so why do we all care? And I'm like, I think you're. You're close to the point, Ethan, but I feel like you're missing the point, which is that it's not. I'm not saying it's giving them a competitive advantage. It's not giving them a competitive advantage. It's just lame. It's just lame. And, like, he is the best player or the second best player or the third best player in the world. Why is he doing this? It's just lame. It's not like there have been points throughout the OKC run where it seemed unfair relative, specifically relative to, to the defense of Thunder are playing on the other end of the floor. But in this playoff run and in parts of the regular season, it's mostly just, it's lame and unbecoming of an mvp and it's just kind of sucks. And I forget I saw another clip of someone on a podcast. I forget who it was who was saying that it's for Thunder. About the Thunder fans part of it where it's like, it's just putting them in a really difficult spot. Because if you're a Thunder fan, you feel like you want to defend your guy. I understand you want to defend your. I want to defend all the Celtics players when, you know, but you're now sort of convincing other people and sort of yourself that this is like normal behavior and it's just not, not normal.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

It's just not normal behavior. And like I've seen like so many

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

different videos going around of like Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant shooting fadeaways and not falling. And it's like, yeah, that, that's, that's

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

a big part of why like those dudes have a certain amount of resonance

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

and Shay doesn't at this point.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

Like, it's at least part of it. Like, like, because here's the thing, like, I, I, I thoroughly agree with Thunder fans and with many of the big picture guys. And this is a take from Ethan

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

that I really do agree with. I read his piece today. It was, it was interesting. For those of you guys who haven't checked it out, Ethan, Ethan is just, does great work in general, but like, yeah, I'm pro, yeah, big Ethan fan over here.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

But in his bigger piece, he talked about something that I agree with, which is like, a lot of this is

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

just like, okay, sees better than all of us and we're pissed about it.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

And like, yeah, I think there's a great deal of truth there.

[Guest Analyst]

Totally part of it.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

Does the officiating discourse overwhelm sometimes the

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

other basketball conversations around the team? Yeah, like, I absolutely agree.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

Like there are times where, like, absolutely. I can't tell you how many times,

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

like I have a Thunder video where we don't talk about officiating.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

And, and then there's the comments underneath it are just tons and tons of people bitching and moaning about the floppy non stop. Like, so like, it is very clearly becoming this weird cultural phenomenon where it's

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

like, in vogue to hate OKC and to hate the way that they flop.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

And like, I. That and I. And so I think a lot of

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

the stuff that we see from like,

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

like, like Ethan, like Tom, like Carson Breber, like a lot of these guys, I think a lot of it is a much needed counterweight to what is this absurd noise from this side. But. But like, no matter what they say and no matter what all these people say, I still find myself firmly in the middle, which is like, Shay's fucking awesome. The way it's being officiated actually makes a lot of sense to me because no one's getting rewarded for any of this shit. Like, Embiid wasn't getting it. Harden's not really getting it. Shay's not really getting it. No. No one's getting the calls. So, like, it's not really bothering me in terms of, like, the, the flow of these games. But still, to this day, every time I'm watching a game and a dude makes a non basketball flop, it drives me crazy. It just does. I see it and I go, like,

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

why are you doing that?

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

Like, it just. It's just super bizarre. Like, it just. It. Regardless of who it is. Yes. Wemby too. Yes. Steph Castle, too.

[Guest Analyst]

Yes.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

I constantly have people in my mentions talking about Luca and Austin. Idro would be crazy with them all year. Like, I just. I find myself in the middle no matter how much noise there is on either side. I just. No one's convincing me of anything. Like, no, Shay doesn't suck and rely on flopping. He's fucking incredible and doesn't need to flop to win. He's not getting any of these calls. And he went for 30 points on 50% shooting last night against a bunch of double teams with Wemby at the rim with incredible defenders on him all night. He's incredible. He does not need to get to the foul line to be incredible. And no, it's not biomechanics. The dude is shamelessly flopping for free throws. That's what he's trying to do. Like, stop lying to me.

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

Like, what are we doing here? Like that.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

That. That is where I get.

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

I just struggle with both sides of the argument.

[Guest Analyst]

Agreed. And I'll say one more thing about it, and then we'll do one short question. We'll get out of here for the night. But the other thing about that I don't like is when you are the best player on your team and when you are the best player in the league or one of the top three players in the league. Whether you are choosing this or not, your teammates are going to do what you do. They're going to sort of like continue this pattern. Which is why I would argue, which is why we've seen some of these bizarre flops from Chad or why we saw the play from Isaiah, which was ridiculous. The Isaiah Joe one was one of the most ridiculous flops I've ever seen. He looked like he took a bullet after he got brushed by, by Harrison Barnes. It was insane. That level of flopping like that is just that part of it. That stuff trickles down from the fact that Shay is doing this. Like, I just really earnestly believe that. And that's part of the problem with it.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

Yeah, absolutely. And like I think you're.

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

The point you're making is key, which

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

is like it is different when it's Harden vs Shea because Harden is like this caricature that we all make fun of. Shay is the back to back mvp,

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

who's the best player in the league maybe. Right.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

It's a different standard. It's a different level of like. Like he is more responsible for the way the league is portrayed than James Harden is. And. And to take some of the blame off Shay, this is where I put

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

so much of the blame on the league in the sense that like Isaiah

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

Joe did that and it worked. He got the call. Alex Crusoe has taken these charges on Wemby, just ceiling for high post position. And it's worked. He's gotten the call. Like now the jump shooting fouls haven't

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

worked in this in the postseason, but

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

they did work for the 82. And so that's why these players have these habits. They're trying to channel something that worked in the regular season. So like the ultimate responsibility always falls with the league. Like, does Shea have a certain responsibility for not being ant? Meaning like not just looking more cool

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

as fuck when you're on the court

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

by not flopping all the damn time. Like yeah, he does deserve some of that responsibility. But the bottom line is, is Shea

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

wouldn't do it if it didn't work.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

And there's a certain amount of like the league has a responsibility to whether it's retroactive finding from flops, whether it's that rule that I've always talked about it with the non basketball play or just in general not rewarding that when it happens. Like I think the league has to do something in like in terms of

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

the way that they incentivize it in order to get these players to kick the habit.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

But again, like, I want to be abundantly clear up front just to put

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

a bow on it. And then we'll take this last question. But, like, the.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

I. I do not think the Thunder

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

are benefiting from officiating at all.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

As a matter of fact, in this series, do I think Hartenstein got a favorable whistle in game two? Yes, but you and I were texting during game one. I thought the spurs got a favorable whistle in game one. So, like, we've played two games. By the way, I talk about this all the time. You go into a basketball game and the whistle is a variable. You're either going to be on the right end of some of the bad calls or on the wrong end of

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

some of the bad calls.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

Or maybe it'll be 50, 50. And sometimes I watch a game and I'm like, yeah, the spurs got a better whistle. That's how I felt after game one. Watch game two. I'm like, yeah, the Thunder got a better whistle. That's how I felt after game two. Maybe game three will be the first game in the series where it feels pretty even. We'll see. But like, the officiating is not the question here. It's just a simple question of, like, are we gonna acknowledge the fact that this dude is falling over a lot? Like, are we gonna acknowledge this? And like, how it kind of looks different than the great two guards that came before him other than James Harden?

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

You know, maybe James is really the guy that we should be blaming here.

[Guest Analyst]

Yeah, I mean, he's okay. Last question. A non basketball question. As a silver. The question is about guitars. As a Silver sky fan, what do you think of Fender sending a cease and desist to other guitar manufacturers who are making the Strat?

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

Didn't that happen? That happened when they first came out

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

with the Silver sky, if I remember correctly.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

But like, so I do have.

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

I do have complicated feelings about this

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

because first of all, there's like, I've

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

seen like a half dozen different guitar manufacturers. And the answer is probably way more than a half dozen, but I've seen a half dozen or so guitar manufacturers that have made like, a representation of the Stratocaster.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

And like, to me, the Strat is

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

like such a long established guitar design that, like, I kind of think it's fair game.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

You know what I mean? And like, yeah. So to be clear, the Silver sky is.

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

Paul Reed Smith is an American guitar company that makes guitars in Maryland, and they have a sponsorship with John Mayer. John Mayer originally was a big Strat guy and he signed a big deal with PRs and he's got these custom models that they call Silver sky.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

And it's designed off of the.

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

Is it.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

I think it's the 65.

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

It's a 61. Whichever one is the 7 inch radius. But it's like a more curved neck so it like feels more rounded in your hand. But it's an amazing guitar.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

Like I have played a lot of really nice guitars.

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

I'm very fortunate to own some very nice guitars.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

But like the Silver sky is by

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

far the best guitar I've ever played. It's just an incredibly well built instrument.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

But it's does. It's basically a Paul Reed Smith's thing is quality. And if you've ever. They did a bunch of videos during

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

COVID which was really fascinating where they like went over their guitar design and how it all worked and like their wood drying process and how every single person who helps hand make a guitar has to initial with a black pen. So that every bit of work is like there's an accountability to it. That's why every Paul Reed Smith guitar you touched just feels like a work of art because they put an intense amount of. Of attention to detail in that.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

And like I just a couple months

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

ago got my first Gibson. I got a Gibson sg. And it's a cool guitar, fun guitar like the Gibson sg.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

But like it is.

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

The quality is just not the same as Paul Reed Smith. Like it's very clear that Paul Reed Smith makes the nicest guitar.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

So John Mayer wants a Strat. He wants it built from the company that he's sponsored by. They do make some changes to the design.

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

The headstock looks different. There's a little bit of a cut in. In the. The Paul Reed Smith kind of signature cut in that's in the lower cutaway.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

It does look a little bit different, but it has that classic single coil,

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

triple single coil design.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

And like I have no problem with

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

them doing it, I don't think.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

I think Fender already tried the Cease and Desist and it didn't work.

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

So like I'm not sure if that's going to really have any sort of impact on it.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

But like if you're thinking about getting a Strat, the American Standard, the American

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

Ultra costs a little bit less than the Silver sky. But I genuinely just think the Silver sky is nicer and I think everybody should. You know, if you're a guitar player you should get one would be great. But I could talk guitars all day. Love the guitar questions. Keep those coming.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

All right guys, that's all we have for tonight.

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

As always, I sincerely appreciate you guys for supporting us and supporting the show.

[Host (Basketball Analyst)]

We'll be back tomorrow with some film

[Co-host (Basketball Analyst)]

on both conference final series and then live on YouTube tomorrow night after the final buzzer of Western Conference Finals Game three. We'll see you guys then.

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