Hoops Tonight - CELTICS-76ERS GAME 7 REACTION: Maxey & Embiid beat Jaylen Brown, clinch series w/ Jayson Tatum hurt

Summary

Hoops Tonight - Celtics vs. 76ers Game 7 Reaction

Podcast: The Herd with Colin Cowherd (Hoops Tonight)
Air Date: May 3, 2026
Episode Theme:
A detailed breakdown and reaction to the Philadelphia 76ers’ Game 7 win over the Boston Celtics, ending Boston’s season and advancing Philly to face the New York Knicks. The hosts analyze what went wrong for Boston—particularly coaching and lineup decisions—and discuss how Joel Embiid and Tyrese Maxey sparked a stunning series comeback. They finish with thoughts on both teams’ futures, notable player performances, and listener Q&A.

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1. Episode Overview

The main theme of the episode is the chaos and drama of Game 7 between the Celtics and Sixers, with a focus on:

• Joel Embiid’s series-altering presence and performance
• The Celtics’ unraveling without Jayson Tatum and due to questionable lineup choices
• Philadelphia’s path to comeback from 1-3 down in the series
• Key tactical adjustments and individual heroics, especially by Tyrese Maxey and Paul George
• What’s next for both franchises—roster construction, potential trades, and playoff implications

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2. Philadelphia 76ers’ Triumph – How Embiid, Maxey & Paul George Broke the Celtics

Timestamps: 02:31 – 18:49

Joel Embiid’s Impact

• Upon return in Game 5, Embiid completely changed the matchup dynamics for both teams.
• Philly’s defense shifted: “...especially in Game 5 when they shifted him into a deeper drop coverage, it allowed Philly to … stay home on Boston’s best shooters and force them to do a lot of drop coverage scoring and a lot of one-on-one with Joel Embiid parked at the basket.” (04:54)
• Boston became reliant on low-percentage pull-ups; their spacing “literally became the shot diet that Philly had early in the series.” (09:22)
• Embiid dominated Boston’s center rotation: “Joel Embiid took Boston’s entire defensive scheme, crumpled it up and threw it in the trash.” (08:01)
• Notable quote: “If you happen to end up in a series with him and he happens to be healthy, he’s a big fucking problem.” (10:47)

Tyrese Maxey Delivers in Crunch Time

• Maxey consistently broke Boston’s containment and “routinely … had the ability to beat the containment of Boston’s pick and roll coverage and get all the way downhill into the lane.” (14:44)
• “When no one can make a jump shot, he was the one dude who could get to the rim. And he got all the way to the rim and he made a couple layups and he iced this game.” (15:36)
• Maxey and Embiid combined for 64 points, 13 assists, and 23 rebounds. (15:36)

Paul George’s Subtle Brilliance

• Less involved on offense late due to Boston’s zone, but praised for defense: “Paul George's defense all series long on Jalen Brown and Jason Tatum for stretches was unbelievable.” (16:05)
• Also praised for clutch shot-making: “Just the incredible difficult pull up jump shots. He was hitting just like he was prime Paul George back in a Clippers jersey.” (16:05)

Philadelphia’s Shot-Making Edge

• Perimeter players “rose and fired into threes and pull up jumpers and hit them,” a key difference during their comeback. (17:02)
• VJ Edgecomb: “...in the other five games was 4 for 28 from 3. He won two games in this series with his ability to knock down, catch and shoot jump shots in game two and in game seven.” (16:32)

Series Implications and Upcoming Knicks Matchup

• Embiid is considered one of “the top two or three dudes left in the playoff field.” (13:41)
• Knicks can challenge Philly with perimeter spacing and transition, testing Embiid’s foot speed. (18:03)
• “My initial gut kind of impression is I would make the Knicks the favorite.” (19:24)

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3. Celtics’ Collapse and Coaching Controversies

Timestamps: 23:03 – 47:27

Questionable Lineup Decisions

• Joe Mazzulla started lesser-used players (Luka Garza, Ron Harper Jr.), benching main rotation pieces in a must-win game:

  • “I don't see any case for Luka Garza starting over Keita for sure, or over Vucevich.” (23:33)
  • Garza went “minus 15 in nine minutes.” (23:56)
  • Harper: “To be conservative, there were three better basketball players than him on the bench.” (24:15)

• Result: Disjointed opening, lack of energy, and poor early offense, letting Philly take control.

  • “They come out flat and unorganized … literally because these guys have never played together before.” (25:57)
  • “It was impossible for me to connect the dots as to what he thought the upside was.” (26:39)
  • “I just thought he Galaxy brain, the whole situation. I thought it was a mistake.” (27:35)

Roster Construction – Boston’s Frontcourt Exposed

• Celtics’ inability to get reliable play out of the center position was a “breaking point” for the series. (28:34)
• “Boston’s got to do something to anchor that front line a little bit more.” (29:33)

Reflections on Mazzulla’s Coaching

• Praise for his offensive system, but the lineup gambit was heavily criticized.

• Notable exchange:

  • “What does he do better than Nikola Vucevic? I don't think there's a single thing on the basketball court that's better than it was.” – Jackson (33:03)

• Mazzulla after the game: “There are a couple of different things tactically we wanted to change out. Give this … series a bit of a different feel.” (39:51)

• Hosts: “That is not a good enough answer. That's just not an acceptable answer from a head coach in this situation.” (40:01)

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4. Stat & Shot Quality Breakdown

Timestamps: 35:22 – 36:11; 54:16 – 56:13

• Celtics were “missing a lot of catch and shoot looks and some of those guys are guys that you're...” (35:22)
• 34 catch-and-shoot threes, the highest since Game 2. (35:27)
• “If Peyton Pritchard hits a corner 3 … they're winning the game.” (36:11)

Three-Point Analysis:

• Celtics: 76th percentile in jump shooting (eighth in league regular season); not elite, but strong. (54:23)
• On unguarded catch-and-shoot threes: 42%, sixth in the NBA. (56:04)
• Biggest challenge: generating quality threes without sufficient rim pressure.

---

5. Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Joel Embiid took Boston’s entire defensive scheme, crumpled it up, and threw it in the trash.” – Jason (08:01)
• “If you happen to end up in a series with him and he happens to be healthy, he’s a big fucking problem.” – Jason on Embiid (10:47)
• “That was tough. ... Ron Harper specifically. I just don't. I can't think of an explanation to starting Ron Harper.” – Jackson (33:03)
• “Joe Mazula. And if the Celtics relied too much on the jump shot. No quote. No. ... I love the looks that we got. ... I hate the result.” (34:04)
• “He was their best player for probably 20 of the 48 minutes tonight.” – Jason on Derrick White (44:13)
• “Al Horford solves a lot of their problems. He's a massively strong center that is capable of strong defensively, like doing a very, very good job defensively in ISO against Joel Embiid and is a knockdown shooter.” – Jason (57:11)

---

6. Listener Q&A and Future Outlook

Timestamps: 47:04 – end

• Acknowledgement of matchup issues as bigger than roster flaws.
• Discussion about possible offseason needs (speed guard, physical forward/center—names floated: Aaron Gordon, Nick Claxton).
• “I just don't think it's as simple as, like, like Ovuch didn't play. So what if we had an Forney? Like, there's no way around it in … terms of, like, Vuch didn't play. So therefore your trade didn't make a difference.” (45:07)
• Praise for this Celtics season, exceeding expectations—“Jaylen Brown did better this year than I think any of us expected.” (59:48)
• Recognition that it’s a “tough way to go out” but team development positives abound: “They found four dudes that legitimately can play like quality regular season minutes.” (60:16)

---

7. Final Sentiments

The hosts conclude that, frustrating as the ending was for Boston, this season surpassed most expectations given preseason doubts. They look ahead to aggressive roster moves, continued Jaylen Brown development, and the reality that matchups dictate playoff fate.

Closing Note:
Even with big questions after Game 7, both the Sixers (with a healthy Embiid, Maxey, George) and the Celtics (with some roster upgrades) are positioned to play major roles as the NBA’s Eastern Conference evolves.

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8. Reference Timestamps for Key Segments

• Opening Game 7 Reaction/Main Analysis: 02:31 – 18:49
• Celtics’ Lineup/Tactical Problems: 23:03 – 31:20
• Coaching, Shot Quality, and Roster Review: 33:03 – 56:39
• Season Reflection and Listener Questions: 56:39 – 61:17

---

For deep NBA fans and Celtics/Sixers followers, this episode is a revealing postmortem of not just a Game 7, but the arc of two franchises at a crossroads.

Transcript

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Within probably 10 days, I'd put on £10. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.

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[Carlos King]

If you're watching the latest season of the Real Housewives of Atlanta, you already know there's a lot to break down.

[Jason]

Portia accusing Kelly of sleeping with a married man. They holding K. Michelle back from fighting. Drew Pinky has financial issues on the

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[Shaquille O'Neal (Shaq)]

the Volume.

[Jason]

All right, welcome to Hoops Tonight here at the Volume. Happy Saturday, everybody.

[Jackson]

Hope all of you guys are having

[Jason]

a great start to your weekend. Well, we just witnessed one of the more bizarre game sevens that I can remember in my time covering the NBA and what I can remember in my time as an NBA fan. As we saw a bizarre starting lineup from Joe Missoula, we saw Joel Embiid, a player who has a history of kind of having frustrating outcomes in these game Sevens, be the best player on the floor by a mile and absolutely control the outcome. Several clean looks for Boston down the stretch that could have won the game or at least put them in the lead. And yet Philly pulls away late on

[Jackson]

a couple of driving layups from from

[Jason]

Tyrese Maxey and Philadelphia is advancing to the next round to play the New York Knicks. We're going to break down that game from the perspective of both teams, talk briefly about the future for both of these teams, then we'll bring Jackson up.

[Jackson]

We're going to take some questions from the chat.

[Jason]

So if any of you guys have

[Jackson]

any questions about anything around the playoffs, drop them into the chat and we will get to them at the tail end of the show.

[Jason]

You guys know the drill before we get started, subscribe to the Hoops Tonight

[Jackson]

YouTube channel so you don't miss any

[Jason]

more of our videos. We're on the pathway to 150,000 subs,

[Jackson]

so it mean a lot to me if you guys would take a second to scroll down and hit that subscribe

[Jason]

button if you're already subscribed like this video, sign up for post notifications.

[Jackson]

That helps us a lot.

[Jason]

All right, let's talk some basketball. So the long and short of it is, with this series, Joel Embiid came in and completely changed the matchup. That's been kind of the theme of this postseason. As we've seen around the league, different, like matchup problems lead to bizarre circumstances. As we've seen certain team teams take early series leads. Certain teams get teams on the ropes that you never would have thought they'd put on the ropes. And a lot of it has to do with no one cares what your record was. No one cares what your net rating was. No one cares what your best lineup's net rating was or how it performed against other best lineups in the league. All that matters is can you score on the team you're playing and can you guard the team you're playing for two weeks? That that's literally all it is. And all year long, Boston looked like a machine. And obviously there are, there are factors to get into here. Jason Tatum being out is certainly a wrinkle thrown into this series. But Philly had started this dominant path before Jason Tatum started to slow down. And it stemmed from the way that Joel Embiid changed this series on both

[Jackson]

ends of the floor.

[Jason]

It changed the way that Philly could guard Boston and it changed the way that Boston had to guard Philly. It was really that Simple. It completely shifted the shot quality dynamic for both teams, which over any large sample is going to be hard to overcome. And that's what seven game series are for. When Joel Embiid came back, the fundamental difference. Let's start with the Sixers on defense. The fundamental difference between what it looked like before Embiid was in the series and after he returned was after game four. In particular game four, they stuck with their original defensive scheme. But in the first three games of the series they were playing classic McNurse basketball. Bringing their bigs up to the level, ball screens, bringing the low man over. And it was allowing Boston to generate

[Jackson]

higher quality catch and shoot three point shots.

[Jason]

It was allowing Boston to get Phillies defense into rotation more often, which is the thing that has sparked Joe Missoula

[Jackson]

basketball for these last several years as they've been one of the most dynamic offenses in the league.

[Jason]

When Joel Embiid came back, and especially in Game 5 when they shifted him into a deeper drop coverage, it allowed Philly to, for the most part, stay home on Boston's best shooters and to force them to do a lot of drop coverage scoring and to play a lot of one on one with Joel Embiid parked at the basket. It fundamentally changed the way that Boston could try to score on Philly on the other end of the floor. When Boston didn't have to deal with the Embiid problem, they were just simply dealing with minor tweaks in their drop coverage. Like game two, we overhelped a little

[Jackson]

bit on that like first pass away

[Jason]

and we gave up too many easy swing pass threes. All right, let's adjust. Let's, let's guard these actions more two on two. Let's turn them into a drop coverage team. And now the only way that Philly could consistently score is isos for Tyrese and Paul George, where they're shooting tough shots over the top or drop coverage scoring where they're shooting pull up jump shots on ball screens. When Joel Embiid came back into the picture, it made that secondary. It made it. So like we talked about before the series in the series preview, I said, I think this is a drop coverage scoring series for Phillies ball handlers. And I don't think they'll be able to keep pace with the Celtics offense in their ability to generate high quality catch and shoot threes. Bam. Whole dynamic flips. Now Boston is the team that has to hit tough pull up jump shots whether it's in drop coverage against, you know, pull up jump shots against the dropping big like from three point land or tough isos with rim protection, Boston literally became the shot diet that Philly had early in the series while on the other end of the floor, Joel Embiid neutralized Boston's entire center rotation. We didn't even see Nicole Vucevich tonight. Joe Missoula was so shook by the Embiid problem that he started one of his worst players tonight in Luca Garza. Don't worry, we're going to talk about Joe Missoula in a minute because that was one of the more bizarre decisions I've ever seen a coach make in

[Jackson]

a must win game.

[Jason]

But by turning Keda into like, oh now you have to guard Embiid and try to stay out of foul trouble and you're having enough trouble staying out of foul trouble when it be not on the floor and Luka Garza might as well just have another forward out there. He's getting shoved around. Vich was literally the guy in game five at the beginning of the third quarter that just got bullied over and over and over and over again. Joel Embiid took Boston's entire defensive scheme, crumpled it up and threw it in the trash. By the end of the series they were double teaming the post and playing zone. Like matchups are always such a fascinating

[Jackson]

thing when it comes to basketball because

[Jason]

again, like it really doesn't matter what you did in the regular season. Detroit came this close to losing in the first round because their entire attack was predicated on bullying. You in Orlando was like the only roster in the league big enough to not be bullied by Detroit and I just thought it was super fascinating. This series is just the latest example in a first round full of this type of dynamic. Joel and beat comes in renders Boston's base defensive scheme utterly useless and on the other end of the floor and on the other end of the floor shuts down the rim and turns Boston into a pull up jump shooting team, which is what they always were when they were at their worst over the

[Jackson]

course of the last few seasons.

[Jason]

Because as good as Jalen Brown was this season, he was always not good enough at that pull up mid range jump shot to be efficient with it

[Jackson]

at a high enough volume like he

[Jason]

was a solid what, 10% below where Shay Gil just Alexander was on pull up 17 footers. Jason Tatum was 5 for 25 on pull up threes before he left the series. Those are things that Jaylen Brown and Jason Tatum can do. But when Jaylen Brown and Jason Tatum are at their best, they attack the basket, get the defense in rotation. Swing, swing, swing. Wide open catch and shoot three for Sam Houser. Wide open catches, shoot three for Derek White. Wide open catch and shoot three for

[Jackson]

Drew Holiday over the years or Al Horford over the years.

[Jason]

It was that dynamic that drove everything. And this new version of the Celtics, which had, you know, mediocre spacing fives like Nicola Vucevich, right, or Luca Garza or a traditional vertical spacing 5, they were literally incapable of moving Joel Embiid

[Jackson]

away from the rim.

[Jason]

They even tried a small ball lineup in the second half of this game without a center. And Embiid just still parked under the rim and ignored Jordan Walsh or like just sat under the basket. Just didn't even pretend to care that he was out there. It was just super fascinating to see

[Jackson]

how that that dynamic shifted.

[Jason]

But Joel Embiid, you know, we talked about it, we did a player rankings

[Jackson]

video right before the playoffs. It was like two weeks before the playoffs where I listed the tiers of

[Jason]

players and I added Joel embiId into that second tier stars for one simple reason. If you happen to end up in a series with him and he happens to be healthy, he's a big fucking problem. And yes, over the course of the last several years, he's generally been not healthy and he's generally either struggled to be available or struggled to really impact

[Jackson]

winning at that much of a level.

[Jason]

Because of his health and even with the appendectomy and he had a couple of bang, bang up situations with his knee tonight, he was mostly able to assert himself. And guess what? It was a big fucking problem. It's why when you have these conversations back in, back in October, you know, remember the, remember the conversations about the Clippers and it's like, yeah, Kawhi, you know, he's never available, but like, but

[Jackson]

what if he is?

[Jason]

Yeah, well, Joel Embiid, he's never available, but what if he is? You just saw what it looks like. He was available. He was better than Jason Tatum, he was better than Jalen Brown. He was the best player in the series. Even putting him as a second tier star is, is not fair really. He was the second best player in the entire first round of the playoffs behind Shea. He, because again, like there are other players in the first round that have had dominant offensive impacts, but this dude, arguably the biggest thing he did in this series is park his ass under the basket and shut off the rim on the Celtics. When you factor in his two way impact, the only dude who did more to help his team win in the first round was Shea, Gil, just Alexander and just massive plays too. Like that three he hit after Boston cut it to one. That was a massive shot. There's a certain level of like comfort and confidence with him tonight too that I thought was really impressive. Like he was talking shit. He was playing to the crowd. He had like, just an energy and a confidence that like directly leads to you just stepping into above the break. Three when you're what, what was he, two for 16 or whatever it was before that shot. Just an absolutely massive series saving shot. I just, I just, you know, who knows if he'll be a hundred percent available next round or if his knees a little banged up now. But the bottom line is for the Knicks, if he's out there and he's healthy, you're going to have to deal with him. And he's one of the top two or three dudes left in the playoff field. So, you know, three, or call it three or four, four or five. Like he's very easily a top five

[Jackson]

player left in the playoff field.

[Jason]

And that's what's waiting for you in the next round. And it's certainly something that you're going

[Jackson]

to have to contend with.

[Jason]

Just an unbelievable performance from Joel and beat. I'm also genuinely just happy for him in the sense that it really sucks. Anybody who's ever played basketball and dealt with injuries and not been able to play, ever Since I turned 32, I've

[Jackson]

had a couple of things myself that have kept me away from playing that shit sucks. And I'm just happy for him that he was able to be out there and have a real big playoff moment.

[Jason]

Tyrese Maxey, though, we get down to crunch time and neither team can make a shot and be misses a couple of jumpers. The, the, the, the wide open catch and shoot threes that the Celtics got down the stretch. Peyton Pritchard in particular gets an absolutely wide open one out of the left corner. Jalen Brown on a little pick and pop action with Derek White, gets an

[Jackson]

absolutely wide open one at the top

[Jason]

of the key and it's missing. And what do we talk about all the time on this show? Jumpers are hard to make under normal circumstances, but when it gets extremely physical and extremely nerve wracking and the palms are sweaty, the long jump shots in particular are the hardest ones to make. Having some ability to get something close to the basket is what gives you resilience in these situations. And one of the other dynamics in this series was the Celtics really couldn't get to the Rim because of Embiid. But Maxi routinely, whether it was Keita down the stretch of this game or it was Vous of itch or it was Corn Garza. He had the ability to beat the containment of Boston's pick and roll coverage and get all the way downhill into the lane. And when no one can make a jump shot, he was the one dude who could get to the rim. And he got all the way to the rim and he made a couple

[Jackson]

layups and he iced this game. Unbelievable performance from those two. They combined for 64 points in this game, 13 assists and 23 rebounds.

[Jason]

Paul George, even just the shot making. Paul George didn't get as involved after the Celtics went zoned down the stretch

[Jackson]

of the game through that cell, through that Sixers offense offer a little bit.

[Jason]

And Paul George was the guy that

[Jackson]

was kind of the victim of the zone cause he just wasn't getting the ball.

[Jason]

And when he did he got like one pull up jumper late but he was out of rhythm. But Paul George's defense all series long on Jalen Brown and on Jason Tatum for stretches was unbelievable. His shot making was unbelievable. Just the incredible difficult pull up jump shots. He was hitting just like he was prime. Paul George back in a Clippers jersey. Just the contributions down the line. V.J. edcomb. V.J. edgecomb. I have to pull up the stack

[Jackson]

because I texted Jackson this earlier.

[Jason]

V.J. edcomb in the other games of the series, in the other five games was

[Jackson]

4 for 28 from 3.

[Jason]

He won two games in this series

[Jackson]

with his ability to knock down, catch

[Jason]

and shoot jump shots in game two and in game seven. He won these games with his ability to step into confidently catch and shoot

[Jackson]

jump shots and hit him. Unbelievable performance. I down 3:1.

[Jason]

No team goes down 3:1 for without a reason. There's a clear advantage that Boston had. Joel Embiid flipped it. The perimeter players fell in line. Like one of the craziest dynamics of the series is in addition to Embiid coming in to dominate, just the simple shot making. The ability of the perimeter stars to rise and fire into threes and pull up jumpers and hit them skewed very heavily towards the Sixers. That's a huge part of how they

[Jackson]

came back to win three games in a row.

[Jason]

Looking forward to the Knicks very different type of matchup for obvious reasons. One of the specific things that the Knicks will be able to do is space Joel Embiid out their starting lineup. Because Josh Hart has shot the three so much better this year and because they do such a good job of pushing in transition off of misses and turnovers. The Knicks are going to be able to test Embiid's foot speed and his ability to contain on the perimeter at a much better level than than the

[Jackson]

Celtics team was able to.

[Jason]

So that's going to be a very unique challenge for them. For the Sixers, I mean, similarly, they, they are kind of used to dealing with putting two on the ball in a lot of circumstances. This is a team that is constantly in rotation because of what happens with Jalen Brunson and Carl Anthony Towns getting targeted in action. So they're kind of set up also in a way to the, to double team Embiid and to rotate out and then on the other end of the floor, the, the when we, when we're looking at the Jalen Brunson issue, specifically Jalen Brunson and what Carl Anthony Towns can do in action, they're going to be able, I think, to get the Sixers defense into rotation considerably more than

[Jackson]

than Boston was able to.

[Jason]

So we're going to have a series preview. I'm going to work on it tomorrow. It'll probably be out Monday morning.

[Jackson]

If I had to guess potentially sooner. I'll let you guys know.

[Jason]

But that's going to be a very different challenge for Philly. That said, if you ask me who the best player in the series was, it's Joel Embiid. And with the way that Tyrese Maxey is playing, with the way that Paul George is playing, this team doesn't exactly have a lot of depth. But they got six really good players and they're going to have a shot. I my initial gut kind of impression is I would make the Knicks the favorite, but I'll dig into some film

[Jackson]

and I'll put together a series preview tomorrow and I'll give you guys my big picture thoughts after we talk about it a little bit more.

[Jason]

On the Celtics front, today's show is brought to you by presenting sponsor Hard Rock bet, the official sportsbook partner of the Orlando Magic. And speaking of the Magic, they're back in the NBA playoffs where the lights are brighter, the pressure is higher, and every possession can change a series. And on Hard Rock bet, every night is your shot to score a major bucket with winner. Go home energy on the hardwood.

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[Shaquille O'Neal (Shaq)]

Everybody knows Shaq, but off camera, he's just a regular guy.

People never believe me when I say I'm just like them. I take out the trash, do dishes, and I struggle with moderate obstructive sleep apnea, or osa. And a lot of adults with obesity also struggle with moderate to severe osa. You know those scary breathing, interruptions during sleep, the loud snoring, choking and daytime fatigue? I knew I had to talk to my doctor. Don't sleep on the symptoms. Learn more at don'tsleeponosa.com this information is

provided by Lilly, a medicine company.

[Superhuman Podcast Host]

Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque, others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the Games and with the athletes for a full year.

[Superhuman Podcast Guest]

Within probably 10 days, I'd put on £10. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.

[Superhuman Podcast Host]

Listen to Superhuman on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your

[Robert]

podcasts hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow youw Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star wars fans, so we're celebrating May 4th with a brand new week of February Fun, thought provoking Star wars related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away, such as the biology of tauntauns and wampas on the ice planet Hoth, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith. Rule of 2 Listen to Stuff to Blow youw Mind on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jason]

I wanna start with this game first

[Jackson]

and then we'll dig a little bit into the the future for them.

[Jason]

I think Joe Missoula is one of

[Jackson]

the best coaches in the league and I think he has one of the best, strongest basketball cultures in the league that he has built there.

[Jason]

And to put it very frank, I

[Jackson]

I thought he made a huge mistake with what he did with the starting lineup. I understand the idea of being like I want to keep Peyton Pritchard off off the bench for the sake of staggering my ball handling. That makes sense to me.

[Jason]

I don't see any case for Luca Garza starting over Keita for sure, or over Vucevich. Vucevich has really struggled. He's also an older, more experienced player that has more size to contend with Embiid. Even though he struggled in that matchup, he is more physically equipped for it. What Garza did is get shoved around

[Jackson]

and go minus 15 in nine minutes.

[Jason]

And the most egregious example was the Ron Harper Jr. Piece -7 in four minutes. To be conservative, there were three better

[Jackson]

basketball players than him on the bench.

[Jason]

I would argue every single one of the five players who played on the bench for Boston tonight is a better

[Jackson]

basketball player right now than Ron Harper Jr.

[Jason]

I didn't understand the case for it. You've started Jordan Walsh at times this season. You've played Hugo Gonzalez in a big role at times this season. I didn't understand the reasoning there.

[Jackson]

Now Jackson is going to be checking to see if maybe we get something

[Jason]

in Oppressor from Joe Missoula and maybe we'll get some sort of reasoning from him. But like that I didn't understand. And the the biggest part that bothered me about it is like if you asked like, okay, Jason, what does a

[Jackson]

win look like for the Celtics in game seven?

[Jason]

Now that we know that Tatum's out, what does it look like? It looks like you jump Philly early with energy in the crowd and you psychologically shift the matchup into it being something that makes the Sixers nervous. And if you do so, maybe they don't shoot 39% from 3. The exact opposite happens when you do what Joe Missoula did. You play a lineup that is quite literally never played together and they come out flat and unorganized. There's a play where Jaylen Brown is driving towards the left and pitches a pass out to the bench where there's nobody standing because the Celtics don't have their spacing right, literally because these guys have never played together before. There's never like, there's never even been a sequence where that group of five players has had to figure out spacing. And on the other end of the floor, you allow Joel Embiid to walk into some of the easiest buckets he had all night. And so you immediately spot them this, you know, 11 to 4 lead. And now all the pressure's off. The Celtics didn't really apply, apply real pressure to Philly until the fourth quarter at that point. And I just didn't see the case for it. Like it was impossible for me to connect the dots as to what he

[Jackson]

thought the upside was.

[Jason]

And again, no coach is perfect. You can go back through NBA history and find examples like, like I think Steve Kerr is one of the greatest

[Jackson]

coaches of in NBA history.

[Jason]

No idea why he was playing Festus

[Jackson]

Azili down the stretch in Game 7 of the 2016 Finals.

[Jason]

Literally gave LeBron a target for a 6, 0 run that gave the Cavs

[Jackson]

a two point lead. That changed the entire complexion of that game.

[Jason]

You can dig back through NBA history and find things like that that don't make sense. But this was Joe Missoula's first example

[Jackson]

of that like that that I can

[Jason]

think of where I just quite frankly

[Jackson]

didn't understand what he was thinking.

[Jason]

It set a tone. It forced Boston to climb uphill all game, which all of a sudden puts a lot of pressure on a guy like Baylor Shireman to hit an open corner three. Whereas if it's like a tie game, instead of you're down seven or eight points, maybe he shoots that a little

[Jackson]

more free, a little less stressed out, maybe he knocks it down.

[Jason]

I just thought he Galaxy brain, the whole situation.

[Jackson]

I thought it was a mistake moving forward.

[Jason]

One of the things that is true

[Jackson]

about the NBA playoffs like we talked about is the matchups are what determine your fate in a lot of cases.

[Jason]

So for instance, like I actually thought

[Jackson]

Keda kind of started to play better and figure Some things out over the course of that game just by playing really hard.

[Jason]

He did go into a dream shake fade away in the fourth quarter that I thought was a little confusing. And he did commit some silly fouls and foul trouble was an issue for him in the series. And I think K overall has developed in a way that is encouraging for

[Jackson]

the Celtics long term.

[Jason]

But as you saw, one of the biggest things Was Al Horford the most valuable dude on the Celtics in the last couple of years? No, like you're going to look at different players like a Jalen Brown or a Jason Tatum. Right. But like that center position ended up

[Jackson]

being a breaking point for this particular series.

[Jason]

Their inability to get reliable play out

[Jackson]

of the center position. I think Kate has got a development

[Jason]

trajectory where he's still worth investing in. But that's one of those things where like, as you could see, maybe having a small ball look that you could go to is something that could give

[Jackson]

you a little bit of versatility for something like this.

[Jason]

And if your small ball look falls apart without Jason Tatum and if your center lineup falls apart without Nemikeda, that's a problem in terms of the depth of this team. So I would be curious to see if we're going to see Brad Stevens target a very big forward. Maybe they end up being the team that makes a move on an Aaron Gordon and tries to flip youthful athleticism on the wing to Denver in in pursuit of of trying to get a forward that can give them that type of look. Maybe it's another center, but Boston's got to do something to anchor that front

[Jackson]

line a little bit more.

[Jason]

Because if you're a Jason Tatum injury away from having an untenable front court for the various types of matchups that you can see in the Eastern Conference. And when we know that this Eastern Conference does potentially present you with a guy like Joel Embiid, that it does present you with a guy like Carl Anthony Towns. There are guys in the conference. Evan Mobley has started to play better over the tail end of the Cav series. Like there just needs to be a little bit more high level talent in

[Jackson]

Boston's front court to kind of balance things out. I think they're a little too dependent right now on Jason Tatum to be healthy and to be able to be

[Jason]

their Swiss army knife.

[Jackson]

That solves everything. And he's kind of entering into a different phase of his career.

[Jason]

But I think this was a really good year for the Celtics and a lot of levels. Jaylen Brown got a lot better. You found four rotation players that you added to your mix because of your

[Jackson]

pro scouting and because of your draft scouting.

[Jason]

Massive step forward developmentally, but the roster is very you don't lose in the first round unless your roster has some pretty substantial holes that need to get filled. And I expect to see a pretty

[Jackson]

aggressive Brad Stevens this summer as he looks to retool and prepare to make a run in the East.

[Jason]

As he looks around and he looks at Philly and he looks at Cleveland and he looks at New York and he looks at Detroit like Brad Stevens got to be looking around and being like, we missed an opportunity this year. And I don't blame him in the sense that you just didn't know what was going to happen with Jason Tatum. And it would have been foolish to go all in with this group knowing the question mark that was Jason Tatum. But I think Brad Stevens eyes are

[Jackson]

lighting up about what next year represents as an opportunity for the Celtics to make another Finals run, and I expect him to be super aggressive as a result.

[Jason]

All right, Jackson, come on up. Before you take a question, man, I

[Jackson]

just want to hear where your head's at and how you're feeling about tonight and about the Celtics moving forward.

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[Superhuman Podcast Host]

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[Superhuman Podcast Guest]

Within probably 10 days, I put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.

[Superhuman Podcast Host]

Listen to Superhuman on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Robert]

Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow youw Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star wars fans, so we're celebrating May 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought provoking Star wars related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away, such as the biology of tauntauns and wampas on the ice planet Hoth or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith Rule of 2. Listen to Stuff to Blow youw Mind on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jason]

That was tough. That was tough. It was. We had Ed bead in the six years number in the playoffs. 3, 0 till this point. Or maybe, maybe I should say just Al Horford had Joel Embiid's number because without Al Horford, it didn't quite look the same. It's a tough loss, man. I, I mean, I'm exactly, completely on the same page about the starting lineup decision. Baffling, baffling stuff. Ron Harper specifically. I just don't. I can't think of an explanation to starting Ron Harper. Truly can't think of an explanation. Luka Garza. I don't know a single thing he does better than Nikola Vucevich. Period. What does he do better than Nicole Vusovich? I don't think there's a single thing on the basketball court that's better than it was. Not a shot of Luka Garza. I just think Nikola Vucevich is basically just a more evolved version of Luca Garza. So I, I liked charming. I like putting Simon in the starting lineup. Yeah, I, I would have been if I was sending the lineup. I just would have slotted him 1 for 1 in for Jason Tatum and just left it. Left it there. That was tough. I do have some Joe Missoula quotes if you'd like those.

[Jackson]

Yes, let's hear them.

[Jason]

Joe Mazula. And if the Celtics relate relied too much on the jump shot. No quote. No. When asked to elaborate, I thought we did a good job bringing two on ones taking what the defense gave us. He said, I love the looks that we got. I love the process that we had, but I hate the result. He said, I thought we competed like hell defensively. Credit to the guys being down in the second half and battling back. Agree there. He said the other team made 39% of their threes. You got to make them. But we're always going to play to the style and strengths of our roster. We go five out and we get five big men who can post up. We'll post up every time. Which I think is a very funny. It was a very Joe Missoula way to answer that question. And it's, it's, it's challenging because on the aspect of the threes, this game, just for. I don't no idea what the, what the metrics say. I feel like process wise and I feel like the shots they got were dramatically better than the last two games from a three. Like I, I get frustrated with some of the they just shoot too many threes discussion when it's just sort of blindly thrown out there. I think they shoot way too many off the dribble threes when, when they get into bad process. I do not think they have any good enough pull up three point shooters to be shooting a super, super high volume of off the dribble threes tonight. It felt like they were missing a lot of catch and shoot looks and some of those guys are guys that you're.

Let me just give you the numbers really quick. 34 catch and shoot three.

[Jackson]

34 catch and shoot attempts, which was the highest they had since game two of the series.

[Jason]

They had 19, 19 in game five,

[Jackson]

26 in game six. 34 tonight. So to your point, they generated the catch and shoot looks that they were not generating against this coverage.

[Jason]

Totally. And I think there is, you know, something to be said if you're like this in, in a. The almost the inverse or maybe not the inverse of the Nicola Jokic conversation where like sometimes you just need your best player to shoot even if it's a tougher shot. I think there's an argument there like do you want a rookie Hugo Gonzalez putting up threes in a game seven? I'm not sure. I'm not sure if you do. But that said, the shot, the shot quality and the shot diet I don't even necessarily hate. They got wide open looks in the under two minutes left in the game to give.

Yeah. To potentially win it.

Wide open looks. If Peyton Pritchard hits a corner 3, 3 point jump shot wide open, they're winning the game. So like the, the. The shot die. I don't necessarily hate. I do think Jaylen Brown got a little too grifty at the end of the game because there was a lot of grifting going on from both teams throughout the entire game. The whistle was very weird throughout the entire game. And so I can understand sort of trying to lean into that and at some point you got to just try to make basketball shots. It's just a bummer. It's a bummer. And and to your point about the roster, like the roster conversation is, is another. It's not a cop out because like you gotta. They built. This is the roster they built. But they weren't. Maybe they were. I wasn't expecting to be this good. So I wasn't really stressing about the front court rotation, the center rotation, because I was like, they're not, they're just not going to be this good. So, so why does it matter to me if their front court rotation is Nimi Keita and Luca Garza? So it's like, and then as the season goes on, they look better and better. Keita looked better and better. And it's like, all right, maybe they can get away with this. And you probably can get away with this in some matchups. I think against the Knicks, I don't think Nimi Keda is an issue whatsoever at all. But against Joel Embiid, it's a huge problem. So it's a combination of all the things. Matchups, roster.

Do you think forward center is where

[Jackson]

they'll look this summer?

[Jason]

Yeah, I think so. We had a couple super chat questions about Nick Clack or mailbag questions about Nick Claxton being a potential option. I don't know if Nick Claxton's like,

I think he's a little redundant.

He's a little bit redundant. I think he's probably a better version of Nina keda who makes 20 million, right? Absolutely. So I think the roster questions will be really, I mean, it's, it's just, it's a disappointing way that game ended. It's a disappointing way that game started. Like we asked how many times did me and you exchanged the same.

You and I were on Harper -7 in four minutes.

You lost. You were down by one with one minute to go and Ron Harper was -7 in four minutes. It's not ideal.

The lineup looked flat. The, the lineup looked like how are we supposed to play?

It's, it's. Yeah. I mean, coming. It's supposed to be an energy group. I suppose with Ron Harper and Baylor Charman in a game seven at home, you want to come out with crazy energy. And they didn't have it, they didn't have it to start that game.

What did. So no quotes about the starting lineup

[Jackson]

yet that you can find.

[Jason]

I mean, they, they, he was basically. Let me, let me, let me try to find some quotes about the starting lineup. Most of the questions were about he's

looking that shot diet while he's looking that up. In the regular season, Peyton Pritchard was

[Jackson]

50 on left corner threes.

[Jason]

Yeah, the thing he, the point that

[Jackson]

Jackson was making about the, the grifting and again, like I, I think Jackson is right to say that it's a small thing in the grand scheme of this game, especially with the way it was being officiated.

[Jason]

But just the.

[Jackson]

What I think about is the wide open one that he missed off the back rim where it's like you're constantly jumping into dudes shooting these janky, unorthodox shots and then suddenly you need to make a normal one and you haven't taken a normal one in forever. And that's where like he did get an and one on. On Tyrese Maxi in the second half,

[Jason]

but he didn't get the call on

[Jackson]

any of those others. And so I think he got a little bit. I thought he affected his own rhythm there.

[Jason]

And if you are going to be

[Jackson]

nitpicky with Jalen, the one thing that he's got to improve on to be a high usage player that's more resilient against these types of coverages, he has got to be able to be able to knock down, pull up threes and that he like this year in, in ball screens, against, against like so drop coverage, pull up threes. He was 3 for 10 in the postseason. That's something that he's got to be able to hit at a little bit higher rate. Yeah.

[Jason]

I do have the quote from Missoula on the starting line of change. He said quote, there are a couple of different things tactically we wanted to change out. Give this, give this series a bit of a different feel. That is not.

Did have a different feel.

Let me tell you right now, as a guy who does not want Joe Missoula fired, that is not a good enough answer. That's just not an acceptable answer from a head coach in this situation. Yeah.

[Jackson]

And like you almost just want to hear like, yeah, I tried this.

[Jason]

It.

[Jackson]

I messed up, you know, but it, but it, it is what it is.

[Jason]

But I think I so the same. It's the same reasoning with like when

[Jackson]

people would say like, like the Rockets players would be like, oh, we should be two two.

[Jason]

It's like no, because like if LeBron misses that three, then you guys go up to or you take.

[Jackson]

Make it 2:1 and the Lakers come out with more focus in game four. Right. Like same goes in a situation like that. Like theoretically, like if the Celtics start that game 11:11 instead of 11:4, Philly may not experience a lull elsewhere in the game.

[Jason]

So it's not a, a zero sum

[Jackson]

game, so to speak.

[Jason]

But I do think that it set

[Jackson]

a tone and that is really the key.

[Jason]

Like in like Joel Embiid is a

[Jackson]

guy that has had struggles in big, big playoff games before with like efficiency and that Sort of thing.

[Jason]

And I think that there's a certain

[Jackson]

amount of, like, you allowing him to

[Jason]

get a couple real easy ones earlier

[Jackson]

so he feels like it's his night. I think that does have an impact on the grand scheme of the game.

[Jason]

I do, too. I just. The starting lineup stuff is just truly, truly unbelievable. Like, zero minutes is unbelievable. Like, if you. And even if you want to go, if you're like Sam Houser, we don't feel like he was giving up enough, wasn't making enough shots to make up for the defensive questions, yada, yada. I mean, I guess you're saying Ron Harper is a better shooter than Jordan Walsh. Like, I don't get Jordan Walsh not starting in that spot. If you're gonna try to mix it up, I don't get Jordan Walsh only playing five minutes. I mean, he was over two from three, but Hugo Gonzalez didn't hit any shots either. On Harvard, it's like, who. Nobody's hitting shots. So I would at least gone for the guy who has been by far the best at guarding Tyrese Maxi over the course of the series and Jordan Walsh. So, I mean, you know, easy to nitpick some of these lineup decisions after a loss, but I think it's fair and valid to say that the starting lineup specifically was just a huge overthink.

I think the overthinking of the.

[Jackson]

Of the jump shooting piece is something that you'll see a lot from some coaches and just fans, too, or they'll be like, well, this guy is 38 on these threes and this other guy is 33%.

[Jason]

But it's like in that entire shift,

[Jackson]

he got 1 3. And what really matters is, like, the. The way the entire unit flows and like, maybe Jordan Walsh is just in the right corner on that Jalen Brown kick out and gets a look. On a possession, you have a turnover. Because the lineups played together before.

[Jason]

I mean, you saw it. I think it was either their Celtics second or their third possession. I don't remember exactly, but there was a point very early in the game when two players almost ran into each other on the right wing. I'm like, you guys just don't know. This group just doesn't want to play together. They literally ran into each other. I'm like, what are we are. We are lost right now? To start a game seven is just. Just crazy, crazy.

It vouch was minus five in 14

[Jackson]

minutes of game six. It's not like he was brutally terrible. You know, I don't understand the V

[Jason]

benching, which which leads us to a question that we've gotten a fair amount in the chat, which is, did the Celtics make a mistake by trading Anthony Simons?

[Jackson]

Oh, man.

[Jason]

It's tricky because we. I think that the main thought process

[Jackson]

at the time was get center depth. There's a redundancy at the guard spot.

[Jason]

You know, so, like, let's say, for

[Jackson]

instance, that Anthony Simons plays a lot. Like, who does he play for in a series like this? He probably plays for like a Derek White, doesn't he?

[Jason]

Yeah, I don't even know, like, because

[Jackson]

what are you gonna do, go tiny and play a bunch of three guard lineups?

[Jason]

Yeah. And. And that's their thing about just brief aside on Derrick White. A lot of people hating on Derrick White for he shot, I think was 5 of 16 from 3 to finish the game. He was their best player for the quarter and a half. He quite literally kept them in the entire game. I have no problem. I mean, there were a couple of the shots that he took in the second half, maybe a little rushed one where he, like, didn't quite have the handle on the ball and still gets a shot up. Like, that's, you know, that's. Sure those weren't the best decisions, but he was their best player for probably 20 of the 48 minutes tonight. So, like, I don't.

[Jackson]

I totally agree, like, on Derek White. He was covering for Jaylen Brown when Jalen Brown was like, no showing the game.

[Jason]

Absolutely.

[Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jason]

Was very, very good in the second half. Not. Not a Jaylen Brown hate show. But Derek. All the Derrick White hate. I think he mean, he had the best game of the series. He absolutely showed up for game seven.

[Jackson]

Yeah, I totally agree.

[Jason]

And I. The Anthony Simons thing, like, their. The redundancies were real. Now the.

[Jackson]

The pro.

[Jason]

It is a problem that the coach

[Jackson]

didn't trust Vucevich to play at all. That's a problem.

[Jason]

But like, again, you're not going to

[Jackson]

play if you play Anthony Simons over, you know, one of your wings, like Hugo Gonzalez or. Or a Sam Houser.

[Jason]

You dip in size, you dip in defense, you.

[Jackson]

And you get a redundancy in offense, which means he probably ends up playing

[Jason]

over Derrick White, in which case you lose a lot of Derrick White's defensive contributions. And so I just don't think it's

[Jackson]

as simple as, like, like Ovuch didn't play. So what if we had an Forney?

[Jason]

Like, there's no way around it in

[Jackson]

terms of, like, Vuch didn't play. So therefore your trade didn't make a difference. Like, that's just flat out the truth.

[Jason]

But at the end of the day,

[Jackson]

if you look at what the deal

[Jason]

was, it was a move on the

[Jackson]

margins that was extremely low risk. That was intentionally built to bolster the center rotation without giving out any sort of draft compensation, getting a little bit of salary relief and making sure that they were flexible for the future, which ultimately is. Is what they did.

[Jason]

And it was also just what the whole plan was the entire time.

Exactly.

Simons. There was never a world where they were keeping him past the trade that not a single scenario in the Celtics season was were they keeping it past the trade line.

Exactly.

[Jackson]

I will say this, though, like,

[Jason]

I would be curious to see if while

[Jackson]

we're talking about trade targets,

[Jason]

there's this forward center thing, but they don't have

[Jackson]

a guard who can really pressure the rim.

[Jason]

Yes, that was a question. We also got in the. In the chat, which was the super chat was the Celtics need to trade for Claxton for switching schemes defensively and a downhill two guard offensively.

Yeah. Because like, that's the other thing with the Anthony Simons thing is like, that

[Jackson]

was really the thing I was most disappointed about with Anthony is that he didn't really get to the basket.

[Jason]

That he never got to the basket.

[Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jason]

So, like, I do think that there's

[Jackson]

something to be said about like, oh, Tyrese Maxey's ability to. To consistently break containment on Boston's pick and roll coverage was like a real value add. And Boston doesn't really have a guy who can do that. So like, that would be another. Another avenue that I would look at. Like I would do, I'd go speed guard and then I'd go some sort of. Either I go best player available between center and big power forward. And I mean like Aaron Gordon size power forward. So like best player available among those two and then speed downhill guard, I think are the two obvious directions.

[Jason]

Yeah. Another question from the chat from our boy Kalyn Nicks fan. Kalin said, may I present the Missoula overrated case minus the champion, he said minus the championship, which is a ginormous caveat. They'll go minus the championship. He has flamed out a multiple series where his team was a huge favorite to win and he'd cherry on top was the starting lineup today. Jason, your thoughts?

So, okay, so the other one there

[Jackson]

would be the series where Jason Tatum busted his ankle in game seven. Is that what we're talking about?

[Jason]

They were down three out of the. To the heat.

They Did.

[Jackson]

Yeah, they were down 3, 0.

[Jason]

There was like weird psychological stuff with

[Jackson]

the Heat and Celtics going back for years prior to that though, for whatever that's worth. Like, like, literally, Jalen, Jimmy Butler had a pull up three that could have take the. Taken the Celtics out and sent them to the finals in 2022. Was it 23? Yeah, 2023. Yeah. So, like that. That was an issue that was deeper than, than just Missoula. But actually, no, Missoula was the coach in 23, so I guess that's. That. Yeah, so that's. That's worth mentioning. But they had matchups with the Heat.

[Jason]

That was his first season. His first season, yeah.

First of all, Kaylin, I love you

[Jackson]

being an antagonist here. This is classic.

[Jason]

Those of you guys who remember from

[Jackson]

playback last year, Kaylin. Kaylin was the antagonist. I just, I just think he's a great coach. It's hard to explain. Like, I just think. I think he has one of the most sophisticated offensive systems in the NBA. He took a team that played a

[Jason]

pretty ugly brand of offensive basketball for a few years and turned it into

[Jackson]

a team that I genuinely really enjoyed watching. That generated some of the best shots in the league and even showed some malleability in the sense that post deadline this year they became less dependent on the three point shot and like a team that got to the rim more and played in the mid range more and in general, just, he's, I think, a step ahead in terms of like the possession battle.

[Jason]

Like last year they weren't corner crashing much.

[Jackson]

This year it was like a foundational part of what made them a good rebounding team.

[Jason]

He even turned them into the best

[Jackson]

rebound, defensive rebounding team in the league post deadline. Like they're. I just think there are all sorts of big green check marks. When you look at Missoula in the way that this roster has performed relative to expectations this year in particular and then the year before, that is a championship. So like, I think two things are true. I think what he did with the starting lineup was frankly stupid. And I still think that there's. I'd be hard pressed to find five coaches that I'd take over him. Yeah, I agree.

[Jason]

I'm not, I'm not on team fire. Missoula.

[Jackson]

Nice try, Kaylin.

[Jason]

Yeah, it's a good effort. Super chat question from Jaden. He said, jason, what is your NBA comp for VJ Edgecomb and what do you think that his ceiling is?

[Jackson]

Oh, man.

[Jason]

Vijay's an interesting player because we were

[Jackson]

talking about the catch and shoot stuff earlier, but he has made some pretty impressive downhill plays in the series and he had some drop coverage scoring in game two in particular.

[Jason]

I think he's kind of unique. The thing that makes him unique is like he's still relatively small, but he

[Jackson]

plays like a three and D wing in a lot of ways with how big he plays and with how, how much he plays in a spot up

[Jason]

role for this team. I, I, he's, I'm not gonna say

[Jackson]

unicorn, but like I don't, I can't actually think off, off the top of my head of a specific role player type that I've seen before. That's like a small guard who's like legitimately a freaky, like a plus plus plus athlete but that's playing primarily in

[Jason]

an off ball role like that.

[Jackson]

Yeah, that's, that's a good question.

[Jason]

I don't, I'm sorry I don't have

[Jackson]

a better answer for you, but I think he's kind of unique. There's not a lot of guys like him in the league.

[Jason]

Couple more questions and we can get out of here. I can go cry on a pillow. I'm just playing. Super chat question from CJ's. Thank you to CJ. He said, and this is no shout out to CJ, but I, I don't agree here. He said, I was thinking possibly MPJ or Sabonis as Celtics targets. Cannot disagree more about Sabonis. MPJ isn't it is a bit of a more interesting one.

Yeah, definitely. Notice the bonus.

[Jackson]

My one thing with MPJ is like I just don't think MPJ has like the strength that I'm looking for from that position.

[Jason]

So like I think Kate, I think the version of this version of the

[Jackson]

Celtics but evolved to being a championship contender still involves Keita in their rotation. I think the counter to Keda and what we're seeing is like these stretch fives that aren't really knockdown shooters but that also can't guard.

[Jason]

Like it's just such a unique combination

[Jackson]

to have a player who's like a legit three point shooter and a rim protector.

[Jason]

And like frankly the ones that are

[Jackson]

really aren't like you're like oh like

[Jason]

Kristaps Porzingis, but it's like he's super

[Jackson]

slow and always hurt. So yeah, the rim protection is interesting but it doesn't materialize very much or you go like Chet or bam.

[Jason]

But it's like 99 of NBA teams

[Jackson]

that they ran into a playoff series against Miami or OKC are like go Ahead and shoot that, you know, like they, they don't really guard them like they're knock down three point shooters like Victor women. Yama has a chance to be like one of the few legit stretch five defensive anchors ever in the history of the league. Like it's just super rare. Like Anthony Davis was a, a guy that could shoot, but teams didn't really guard him out there. Like the, the bigs that really could shoot like Dirk weren't the defensive anchors.

[Jason]

So like they're so exceedingly rare that

[Jackson]

like I actually think your best bet

[Jason]

is having a discounted rim running drop

[Jackson]

coverage big like Kada, a developmental guy.

[Jason]

Have a dude that you cycle through

[Jackson]

every few years that you found as a, a guy that was either not

[Jason]

being used elsewhere that you found in

[Jackson]

the draft that you could keep on

[Jason]

a rookie scale contract that his job

[Jackson]

is to set screens and roll hard and dunk lobs and play and drop coverage. And then your other look should be like a variation of a small ball look where you have big forwards everywhere

[Jason]

but in order for that to work

[Jackson]

you have to have big forwards.

[Jason]

And I mean like LeBron James, Rui

[Jackson]

Hachimura, Aaron Gordon sized forwards and so like that. That is the type of a dude that I would be looking around for. And like maybe Boston's the team that looks to trade up in the draft for a guy like Linda Borg if they, if they like him or someone like that. Like I wonder what direction they'll go. But I think it's got to be a very big strong forward rather than trying to find a stretch five that doesn't actually make enough threes or doesn't protect the rim.

[Jason]

Couple more questions. We got a super chat that I missed. Thank you. Kate Clark. I'm sorry for mentioning this earlier. He said, are the Celtics not as elite of a three point shooting team as some people like to think? They barely crack the top 10 in three point percentage. Like yes, they have games where they make a high volume 20 plus. But are they just overrated as a three point shooting team?

[Jackson]

That's a loaded question.

[Jason]

And just, just strictly by the numbers

[Jackson]

they this year in the regular season their jump shooting as A team was 76 percentile. Which ranks, let's see that ranks. They were the eighth most efficient, efficient jump shooting team overall in the league in the regular season by catch and shoot specifically they were eight.

[Jason]

So like they are a very good

[Jackson]

catch and shoot team relative to like the rest of the league. But they're not like elite.

[Jason]

The real thing is, is like Their

[Jackson]

best playmaker in Jason Tatum is was coming off of an Achilles and not able to really pressure the rim as much as he'd like to. And even at his best, it's kind of struggled with first step quickness and

[Jason]

their best first step quickness, rim pressure

[Jackson]

guy is probably their worst passer out of all their perimeter players, even though he showed some growth this year.

[Jason]

So like I think there's a certain

[Jackson]

amount of like generating high quality threes is tough. I think the, the guy that Jalen needs to watch a lot of film

[Jason]

of is Shea because Shea over the course of the last few years has really used his ability to hunt matchups,

[Jackson]

drive the basketball and work from the middle of the floor as a vehicle with which to generate a ton of high quality threes. And like I was actually watching a bunch of Lakers thunder film this morning to prep for that series and like Shay's kick out passing is just outrageous. He's just so good at it and

[Jason]

like I think when you look at like quality.

[Jackson]

So like let me, let me actually just filter this. Just one last stat for you guys just to check. The Celtics shot 42 this year on unguarded catch and shoot threes which ranked sixth in the NBA.

[Jason]

So that's, that's also what Derrick White

having his worst shooting season in four season.

And that's with Derrick White having his worst shooting season and not having Tatum

[Jackson]

out there who by the way is one of their better like wide open catching guys.

[Jason]

So like the, the thing is, is like the real battle with the Celtics

[Jackson]

over the years has been generating those types of shots. To your point, Jackson, like If they generate 35 catch and shoots in each of the last three games, they probably win one of them, you know, because the variance can kind of go in their favor. But like I think, I think that's really the next step is just getting Jaylen Brown to kind of develop as like a kick out passer.

[Jason]

Last question for the night, and I will give you my answer as we touch on this a little bit is what is the biggest difference from the Celtics championship season to the last couple of seasons, this season specifically. And I think to your point about the challenge of finding a center like that, it's hard to be like 40 year old Al Horford is the answer to that question. But Al Horford solves a lot of their problems. He's a massively strong center that is capable of strong defensively, like doing a very, very good job defensively in ISO against Joel Embiid and is a knockdown shooter.

Yeah, he, he gave him true five out spacing, which again was a huge

[Jackson]

part of how they beat Dallas. And I think we also got to include jrue Holiday in here.

[Jason]

Like, like, would Drew Holiday have been

[Jackson]

better than Sam Houser or Baylor Scheireman or Jordan Walsh or any of those guys in this series?

[Jason]

Now the thing is, is, like, you got to be realistic.

[Jackson]

Like, Brad Stevens had no choice but to break up the team. Under the circumstances, it was looking like a gap year. Like, let me put it to you this way, Jackson.

[Jason]

I had the Celtics as my third

[Jackson]

best championship contender coming into this playoff run. I was taking them very seriously. I believe you were as well.

[Jason]

Yep.

[Jackson]

Most of our, our peers who cover the league were doing the same thing. Did you have any thought that that would be a possibility back in October? Like anything?

[Jason]

No. No. And our boy Will from playback last year was saying we missed a super chat question. I apologize, Will, his question, I thought it was kind of a troll question. I think it is. Is should this, should the Celtics have tanked this year? And I, and I think I was of the belief when we were talking, you know, 11 months ago, I was like, gap hard gap year, full on gap year tank for AJ Debanza. I was like, I don't, I don't care at all about what happens this season. Let Jaylen Brown get infinite pick and roll reps and ISO reps and tank for AJ Debanza. Like, I was like half joking, but I was half serious. And so I was never expecting them to be this good. I even by. Until, by like January, February, I was like, it's cool. Like, it's cool. But like, I don't. What are we really talking about? And then the Tatum stuff started to pick up. Jalen Brown just like kind of kept doing it. And it was like, well, if Jalen Brown's gonna be this good, then a lot more things are possible than I thought were possible. So, you know, 11 months ago, I definitely was not expecting them to even make the playoffs. Four months ago, I was not expecting them to be a, like, actual, actual contender. So this is a tough way to go out. Undeniably it hurts and it feels like it was avoidable in some ways, but, you know, it's. It already has exceeded the expectations that I was coming into the season with.

I remember in my series season preview,

[Jackson]

I literally said I had like three goals for the Celtics this season. If you remember, one was like, Jalen Brown in his individual development, like, what is he going to look like as a Number one. Like, is that like it. Can that be a positive experiment which I would say resoundingly, yes.

[Jason]

Like Jalen Brown did better this year

[Jackson]

than I think any of us expected.

[Jason]

Two was trial run on a dribble

[Jackson]

drive guard with Anthony Simons, which was a big X. But that's not really the trial's fault. It's just Anthony wasn't good enough.

[Jason]

But three was.

[Jackson]

I literally was just like, maybe they get one or two rotation players. Maybe they find one or two rotation players.

[Jason]

They found four. They found four dudes that legitimately can

[Jackson]

play like quality regular season minutes.

[Jason]

So like it's hard. I know it sucks at this point

[Jackson]

given the expectations coming in and you

[Jason]

were up 3:1 and like then this Joel and bead sized wrench gets thrown into the equation and like I was gonna. If the Celtics had won tonight, I would have said a very similar thing tonight to what I said last night

[Jackson]

about the Pistons, which is now that

[Jason]

you've survived Embiid, a lot of the

[Jackson]

shit that wasn't working will start working again.

[Jason]

Because if you go to the next round, like the Carl Anthony Towns at center groups aren't going to be able to protect the rim and you're going to be able to get their defense in rotation a lot by attacking Cat and Brunson and like, like similar to Detroit, like you go into the next round and if Cleveland wins tomorrow, it's like they're going to be able to

[Jackson]

bully Cleveland in a way that they couldn't bully Orlando.

[Jason]

Like matchups are would dictate all of this. So I understand how frustrating it is. But like, as the dust settles on all of this, this is resoundingly better

[Jackson]

than you could have possibly expected from this season.

[Jason]

All right, guys, that is all we have for tonight.

[Jackson]

As always, we sincerely appreciate you guys for supporting us and supporting the show. We got two more game sevens tomorrow.

[Jason]

We're going to be live on YouTube

[Jackson]

after the final buzzer of Raptors Cavs tomorrow night. We will see you guys then.

[Shaquille O'Neal (Shaq)]

Everybody knows Shaq, but off camera, he's just a regular guy.

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[Superhuman Podcast Host]

Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque, others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.

[Superhuman Podcast Guest]

Within probably 10 days, I'd put on £10. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.

[Superhuman Podcast Host]

Listen to Superhuman on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Joey Dardano]

I'm Joey Dardano and on my new podcast, Hope From a Hypocrite, I'll be changing lives, helping people in need with thoughtful solutions. Psych. I'm a comedian. I'm not qualified to give good advice. Join me and my comedian friends as we riff, rant and recommend some of the most legally dubious advice known to man. This is help from a hypocrite, the worst advice from the dumbest people you know. Listen to Help from a Hypocrite Wednesday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it's Edwin Castro, also known as Castro 1021, and I'm Conkey, his best friend and business manager. And we've got a new show called the 1021 podcast. I'm taking you behind the scenes on how I became one of Twitch's most popular streamers. We also love sports, and with the World cup right around the corner, we'll be breaking down the biggest storylines ahead of the big tournament here in the USA. Listen to the 1,021 podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Debbie Brown]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.