← The Herd with Colin Cowherd
The Herd with Colin Cowherd
Hoops Tonight - GAME 3 REACTIONS: SGA & Thunder go up 3-0 on LeBron & Lakers + Harden CLUTCH in Cavs win vs. Pistons
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Jason
This is an iHeart podcast.
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Jason
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Jacob Goldstein
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- [03:11]
Jason
All right, welcome to Hips Tonight here at the Volume. Happy Saturday everybody. Hope all of you guys are having a great start to your weekend. Got a jam pack show for you guys tonight. We're gonna hit both of the games from tonight's Game three semifinals slate. And then at the tail end of the show, Jackson's going to come on. We're going to take some questions from the chat. Got some other stories from around the NBA that we're going to hit, including Steve Kerr's two year extension. You guys know the drill before we get started, subscribe to the Hoops Tonight YouTube channel so you don't miss any more of our videos. We're on the path to 150,000 subs. It mean a lot to me if you guys would take a second to scroll down and hit that subscribe button. If you're already subscribed, hit like and sign up for post notifications. It helps us a lot as well. All right, let's talk some basketball. So this series is progressing as I expected it to. I predicted the Thunder would sweep the Lakers. There's just a talent deficit that becomes impossible to make up for in this sort of circumstance. When I was looking at the Rocket series, there's a certain amount of like, yeah, the Lakers have flawed players, but so does Houston. And one of the things that I talk about all the time on this show is the way that your stars through what they do on any any given possession through like just straight up offensive and defensive contributions but also leadership and infusing your players with confidence. They can usually like pull something out of flawed players in a way that like I thought that was a real differentiator in the Rocket series among two teams that had a lot of flawed players. Problem is the Thunder don't really have that type of roster. The Thunder are the most talented roster in the NBA by a wide margin and they have like a certain amount of like, this guy's just better at basketball than your guy by a lot. Take Isaiah Hartenstein, for example. How much better is I, Isaiah Hartenstein at basketball than deandre Ayton? How much better is he at catching and finishing in traffic? How much better is he at the physical rebounding battle at both ends of the floor? How much better is he at setting screens? How much better is his motor? How much better does he run up and down the floor? How much better is he in drop coverage? How much better is he in high drop vs deep drop vs a zone look vs switching? How much better is he at basketball? Many, many times better. And like, that's just one matchup that we're discussing from a series that, you know, like the. We're going to talk about AJ Mitchell more here in a minute. He's their 15th highest paid player player and he just badly outplayed Austin Reeves. He just badly outplayed a guy that the Lakers are going to pay somewhere around 150, 200, maybe more million dollars this summer. And Austin deserves it. Like, we'll talk about Austin in a little bit. I remain a believer in Austin even though he's a flawed player at this point in his career. But like, that's the dynamic that you're up against when you're trying to compete against the Thunder. Because of the, the job that Sam Presti did, accumulating draft picks, the job that he's done avoiding giving large amounts of money to flawed basketball players and targeting like, okay, I'm going to give out a big free agent deal, but it's going to Isaiah Hardenstein. I know this dude's good and I know that for the time that he's here on this contract, he's going to contribute in these ways and he's going to be good. I'm going to give out some money to Alex Caruso, but like, I know that while he's here, he's going to be good at these things and he's going to do these things well. Like Lou Dort, you know, the, the first like, role player that they ended up extending to like a pretty exp. Offensive deal. It's like there's a certain, like, this is what I'm getting from Lou Dort on both ends of the floor. I'm not going to be looking at my payroll. Like, I really wish Lou Dort wasn't on my team. He's avoided catastrophe, he's paid the right guys, he's accumulated all of these draft picks and so now he can cycle through these players on rookie contracts. A.J. mitchell makes like $3 million and he was just the second best player, arguably the best player. He was the best player. She didn't have a good game. AJ Was best player on the floor tonight in the Western Conference semifinals in game three. And so, you know, and this summer they're going to go get another high level starter on a rookie contract. Whether it's Tomas Sorber or Nikola Topic that they've got other guys in the hopper that could come in and play. They could make trades if they decided, like they could literally go like, we lost to San Antonio because we didn't have this. And they could just be like, let's go get it. You know, like I, you know, money doesn't buy happiness, but it gives you options like, like money's not going to fix all your life problems. It's not going to make you like your wife if you, if you hate her or your marriage or your job or whatever it might be. But like if some shit hits the fan, you can go buy whatever you need to fix your problem. That's really where money comes in and gives you options. That's the, that's the dynamic that, that the Oklahoma City Thunder have. The Oklahoma City Thunder, whatever problem they encounter in the coming years, they just go to the store and they put the credit card on the table and they get what they need. And like that's really difficult to overcome. And that's like a, a NBA wide problem. Victor Wembanyama and what that roster down in San Antonio has is the only real hope to win an arms race against that Oklahoma City team over the course of the coming years. And like, you know, the Lakers are an exaggerated example because you have guys like DeAndre in playing who obviously are, you know, very limited. You have guys like Luke Canard playing who like, you know, obviously can make shots. But he's, you know, I, I was, I was driven a little crazy in the second half tonight with how often he was helping off of Isaiah Joe for no reason. And like he can get physically overwhelmed if you need him to peel, switch and like box out Isaiah Hartenstein as he's getting downhill, it's not something he's going to be able to do. But like on the other end of the floor, if like Austin drives in the lane and engages Isaiah Hardenstein, like AJ Mitchell's in there banging with DeAndre and getting a three quarter front and like forcing a turnover as Austin's trying to throw the ball back to him. Like there's a physical battle that like many of these Lakers players are just not up for. And so yeah, the Lakers are a more exaggerated example of this dynamic. But the reality is when teams are competing with the Oklahoma City Thunder in the coming years, they just have an embarrassment of riches and it's going to be really difficult to deal with. Take Chet Holmgren and Isaiah Hartenstein for example. And I know I talked about them a little bit after last game, but they might be the most versatile pairing of bigs to play in. Like a legit too big configuration that I can remember in terms of two way versatility. Because on offense obviously Chet can shoot and he could put the ball on the floor. Like Chet hit a three tonight. Chet was able to. Or Chad didn't hit a three tonight, but he had a couple threes in the, in the last game, including the biggest shot of the game there off the right wing. But he has the ability to like put the ball on the floor and hit a little fade away in the lane. He can vertically space, he can attack a closeout and make the next read in the chain. Like Chet obviously has a great deal of offensive skill. He could basically play power forward for you. But Isaiah Hardenstein is both a vertical spacer, an offensive rebounding threat and a short range spacer. He just kills teams with that little floating jump shot. They can run 4 out 1 in spacing with Isaiah in the dunker and Chet out at the three point line. They can run high, low spacing where you know, Isaiah and Chet are functioning as passers to each other, both out of the short range. They have a really nice natural chemistry there. You know, Isaiah Hartenstein is such a gifted five out big, if you want to have him running dribble handoffs out by the perimeter, functioning as a screener and a passer. They're extremely versatile on offense. And then you go to the defensive end of the floor and both of those dudes are just high motor good athletes. One of them strong, one of them's long. They have the ability to defend in all these different coverages and it just anchors everything that they do. That's just like one small facet of this. I think those two guys in particular have really dominated this series. And I think of all the position groups, like, because LeBron and Austin kind of had a rough night tonight and we'll dig into that for a little bit here in a minute. But like LeBron and Austin have competed at points in the series. LeBron was great in the first two games, Austin was great. In the second game, Marcus, you know, has had his moments where he's been frustrating, but he's also been out there competing. Rui Hachimura continues to shoot the shit out of the three. Like the Lakers perimeter players have like competed, right? They've at least tried for stretches to be able to hang onto the rope and hang on for dear life and be able to compete. The gap between deandre Ayton and Jackson Hayes and Chet Holmgren and Isaiah Hartenstein is a Grand Canyon sized gap. And that really has been where this, this like that's been like I talk a lot about the fail point. It's the, the part within a matchup where you just all of a sudden you have no chance to survive. That's been the Lakers fail point in this series is their center rotation. And it's going to be something they have to consider because again, Ayton was good against Houston. The battle here is you're going to play better teams than Houston. And you know the broadcast, ESPN broadcast tonight, they were going after deandre Ayton down the stretch and rightfully so, as you're sitting there watching Isaiah Hartenstein flat out outwork DeAndre Ayton in a pivotal stretch of the game in the early fourth quarter when like the Lakers season is on the line. The Thunder are about to win their seventh straight playoff game. Like Hartenstein should have every reason to relax a little bit. But no, it's a character thing. They get into the ball with their perimeter guys. Their bigs never stop playing hard. Like Lou Dort is slipping by LeBron for an offensive rebound on a free throw and then hitting a three in the fourth quarter, like still going 100 miles an hour. Because that's just what the Thunder do. They have a culture. They go 100 miles an hour all the time and they're deep. So no player is taxed beyond what they're capable of. No Thunder player played more than 33 minutes tonight, right? And so like, like I, DeAndre though was out there for 24 minutes and was getting flat out outworked by Zay Hardenstein who played 31 minutes. And like that was the real fail point for the Lakers in this series. But I want to talk about A.J. mitchell for a second because he's a really interesting player, not just for this series but for the big picture. I had my eye on the next round in particular for AJ Because I am a big believer in AJ and we've talked a lot about him this year. He's been like kind of the lifesaver for the Thunder with J Dub and how long he's been out of the lineup. But like he just brings a very simple dynamic to the table. He is a very gifted dribble, penetration, dremel penetrator. He can use his first step, quickness, getting to his left hand to beat the point of attack and get into the paint. Now foundationally, that's just a really important basketball trait. I'd argue it's like one of the top two or three most important traits that any basketball player can have. Can you beat people off the dribble? Now the Thunder have this in spades because Shay can do it. J Dub when he's healthy can do it. We know that like, like Casey Wallace had a play early in the game where he just was like, oh, Austin or Luke Canard. I'm just gonna go right at Luke Canard and get all the way to the basket for a little layup at the off the right wing. Like they've got a bunch of guys who can do it. But A.J. mitchell, other than Shay is the best at it. I actually think he has a quicker first step even than J Dub. J Dub to me is more of a power driver and he functions best in semi transition which is very valuable within the OKC attack. But J Dub's one of those guys where when you get into some slow down half court environments, like some bigger, stronger defenders can beat him to spots and force him to take tough mid range pull up jump shots. Whereas like AJ's got like a legit like blur speed advantage that makes him really difficult to keep in front in those situations. But that's the foundational trait. And then from there he's just got two very simple counters. One, he can make the passing reads, the main one that he was making all night tonight, which is just really the, the, the, the, the fail point again for the Lakers is he was turning the corner and getting downhill, engaging the Laker big easy wraparound pass or drop off pass to Hartenstein or Chet Holmgren as the roll man for an easy layup. He had 10 assist with zero turnovers tonight. Most of them were to the big, just rolling to the basket so he's got the passing counter. By the way, AJ did do some higher level pick and roll ball handling this year where he would like throw skip passes to beat low man help and stuff like that. Like AJ's a pretty gifted passer and then the second or the third piece, the final piece of it is just a little bit of a jump shot doesn't need to be amazing, but like can you stop on a dime, hit a little 15 footer, can you hit a pull up three against a drop? Can you hit a catch and shoot three? And he's got that ability. And so that foundational trait mixed with a couple simple counters and the fact that on defense he's competing on the ball with physicality, he's making his defensive rotations, he's banging with bigs and like competing on the ball against bigger, more physical ball handlers and centers and stuff. Like he just gives you everything that you're hoping for out of a two way shot creating guard. And the reason why I have my eye on the the future for like the next round is one of the things that I've noticed about the spurs is the spurs have a ton of quickness on the perimeter and they've really competed well on the ball. And like little things like IO Dunmu was like getting dribble penetration whatever he wanted against Denver. IO Dasunu has struggled a little bit to get dribble penetration against that San Antonio spurs defense. Now IO also has a little bit of a calf injury. Like what I'm curious to see is how successful AJ Mitchell is at beating that first line of defense for San Antonio with their guards. Because if he goes into that series and he's a reliable dribble penetration kind of guy against San Antonio, I suddenly view AJ As a foundational piece. Yeah, like, like real life dude who needs to be viewed as one of the core pillars of the franchise. Because as we saw last year, like take J Dub for example, there were stretches where J Dub looked really good and there were stretches where he struggled. And like the specific thing that he can struggle with sometimes is that first step quickness. Now J Dub's a very different type of player. He's a big forward, like kind of forward guard hybrid who can guard multiple positions, has like the most ridiculous like reach around steel that you'll see in the league because he's just got such ridiculous long arms. The guy had a 40 point NBA Finals game. So I'm not trying to undersell him at all whatsoever. But like what he can struggle with specifically is against really good defenses, he can struggle with first step quickness in the half court. And AJ Mitchell would be the only other guy other than Shay on the roster who could be a reliable first step quickness guy. And so keep an eye on him in that spurs series. And if like he's super dynamic beating people off the dribble I think Sam Presti, like, I saw Bill Simmons recommend, for example, like, oh, what if you trade A.J. mitchell and, and your draft pick and maybe another draft pick and you move up in the draft to go get like a Caleb Wilson. Now do I think the Thunder should continue to explore adding high level role players? And would those high level role players be forwards? Probably because they have a depth at guard. But like, again, I just think AJ Mitchell brings a very unique skill set. I'd be hesitant to trade him unless he went into the San Antonio series and it's like, oh, he's quick, but like, not quick enough. You know that. Like, to me, that is like a really good test for the AJ Mitchell, kind of like, how valuable is he to this franchise in their big picture plans, how well he gets dribble penetration against the Spurs. But again, like, as I just, I remain incredibly impressed by the Thunder. This was a game where they just got so many contributions from so many spots like Case and Wallace just making every catch and shoot three to start the game. Those were like shotgun blasts to the chest for, for Lakers fans and for that Laker team that was trying so hard to hang onto the rope in that second half when Shay started, like, one of the big game plan changes that we saw was like, and I talked about this during our, our other episodes, like, I liked the double teams. It was clear that the Thunder were a little out of rhythm. But what I said was as soon as they start hitting threes, that's when you flip the script and try to disrupt their rhythm. And it works like, like they came out and they made every three early. After missing a bunch of threes early in game two. And JJ pulls the plug on the doubling. He starts just going with more of a traditional, like, we're going to guard him straight up with some guys in the gaps. And all of a sudden Shea started shooting and he went, what, three for his first 13. Like, it, like, legitimately, that's rhythm disruption. We never talk about that enough when we talk about basketball. But like, we always just think about shooting variants like it's just somebody throwing a pair of dice on a craps table. And that's just not how it works. Like, you're, you're, you're. There's a million factors that go into each individual jump shot. And like, sometimes something simple like, oh, I've been functioning as a passer against double teams for two games and the first four or five minutes of this game, now all of a sudden I need to shoot. Can take a little Bit to like get your rhythm. And he ended up finding his rhythm later in the game. He finished four for his last seven, but like he started three for 13. So like that was kind of like that initial kind of game plan success that led to the Lakers taking a halftime lead. But then what we saw is in the second half in particular, Shea started to work into the middle of the floor and catch Luke Canard in particular, just kind of roaming. Oh, you're roaming too high off of Case and Wallace in the dunker spot. Drop off easy little bucket. Oh, you're roaming too far off of Isaiah Joe. Those two threes that Isaiah Joe hit were just like massive threes there in that third quarter run when they really started to pull away and make this game feel like it was out of reach. Just again, contributions down the line. Another incredible defensive performance. Lou Dort with the final. The final kind of like dagger I thought was that offensive rebound on LeBron and the three off the left wing. Big win. I would be stunned if they didn't win on Monday. This is going to be a sweep and we're going to be seeing OKC versus either San Antonio or versus Minnesota. And if it ends up being San Antonio, I think it has a chance to be one of the greatest playoff series of this era. I'm very, very excited to see it on the Lakers front. I. I'm going to mainly be cutting guys slack. This Lakers team to me had looked a little dead in the water in the middle of the year. There's some reasons for that. Austin Reeves was out for much of that, and that's a big part of why I view his view him as so valuable to this team. When he was out, there's there was like a lack of life that the team had for an extended stretch there in the middle, but they found a groove there post All Star break where Luka played like the best player in the world. And you know, Austin and LeBron both kind of found their role as Austin is a secondary ball handler. LeBron is like this role player. Marcus Smart was shooting 40% from three. They got their first like consistently engaged stretch out of DeAndre Ayton and they looked like a really good basketball team. And then they rolled up in okc. Luca had a bad game, Austin had a bad game, Ayton had a bad game. And they found themselves down big early and Luca pulled his hammy and Austin suffered this oblique injury and it completely chopped off the season at the knees seemingly. And then that group summoned something deep inside of them and found the willingness to try to make it work anyway. And they went out there and they battled and would have had the three seed if it wasn't for San Antonio purposely tricking off one of their, what seemed like at the time a very important game. Ended up not being a very important game. But they tricked off that game against, against Denver and Denver got the four, the three seed. But the Lakers battled to end the year and they went into a first round playoff series where they were the 13th largest underdog in the history of tracking of odds, which I think went back to like 1988. And they won a playoff series and we got to see LeBron James be the best player on a team that won a playoff series for probably the last time in his career. And that was a cool experience. You saw Rui Hachimura have his best playoff run of his career. Ayton had a good run there at the end of the first round where he was a good defensive rebounder. Marcus Smart made a couple of huge plays in the first round that helped him pull out games. Luke Canard had a little run. It was fun, it was great. It was kind of a cherry on top of what was a surprisingly likable Lakers team. And there was a proof of concept that I think is a foundational thing for them moving forward. The foundational thing being LeBron still has value for this group. Luca is still good enough to get you to the promised land. And if you see these certain types of players like oh, Marcus Smart, like if it's Marcus or it's someone else, just a high motor player who plays hard all the time, who makes winning plays, who can like knock down a catch and shoot three and play some defense like there's real value there. Austin is the secondary ball handler. I still believe in Austin. We'll talk about him in a second. There's a proof of concept there. You just need better players. And like there's clearly a line of delineation between what can work against lower level competition in the playoffs and what can work against your ultimate test, which is okc. And so that's the job for Rob Polinka this summer to continue to try to find ways to infuse talent into this roster through the, the draft, through the trade market, through on the margin. Second, like if they can buy it, they, they can pay cash to buy second round pick this year. They should, and they should have their scouting department look around, see if they can find a player who can play for them. The undrafted market, the veteran minimum exception market around the league Your pro scouting has to be up to the challenge this summer. They need more good basketball players. We could talk about X's and O's. We could talk about how great certain players are for okc, but the truth of the matter is, OKC is going to win this series and probably sweep you because they have way more good basketball players. The foundation is fine. LeBron plus Austin, plus Luka, plus a really good center, plus a small forward who can defend and shoot and plays hard all the time, I think gives you a shot. So it's incumbent on you to go find those two archetypes to fill out four or five good bench players to give yourself a. To give yourself a rotation and run this thing back next year and see what you can do on the Austin front. I understand that Austin didn't play well in this series and overall. Overall in this playoff run. But there's a certain amount of, like, you're betting on what Austin has continued to do year in and year out. And specifically, Austin has, at various points, struggled and then managed to come through. On the other side, Austin was this great role player. Then all of a sudden, he became a starter under Darvin Ham. When he was a starter, there was a phase where he struggled, and Darvin Ham benched him, benched him for Cam Reddish because DLO at the time was just kind of playing better with the starting group. There was some weird lineup data. Austin struggled in that role at first. Fast forward a year, he was the starting point guard. DLO gets moved to the bench under JJ Redick. Now Austin's like this primary ball handler off of Luca and ad. It wasn't pretty at first. There were a lot of turnovers. There were a lot of mistakes in the regular season against, like, sometimes even bad teams. And then they traded dlo, which made it a little bit easier to get him even more opportunities. But, like, what happened, like, all of a sudden, you know, we talked about how great LeBron was during the time around February, March last year. You know who else was awesome in that stage? Austin Reeves started to click for him, and you saw little bits and pieces. It's like, oh, here's this big game against Indiana. Like, oh, shit. Like, Austin's got it. He's really, really good. And then, like, you come into this year and it's been better. Way, way, way better than last year. Like, dramatically better than last year. Not perfect, but dramatically better than last year. And then you look at this last couple of games against okc, and again, like, he really struggled against OKC in The regular season, he like, kind of the bed a little bit in game one, but he had his first efficient 30 point night in game two. I think throughout this series, he's had a bunch of really high level playmaking sequences. The turnovers have been a problem. I think he's had at least five turnovers in every game, if I remember correctly. Turnover's been a problem. Gotta clean that up. But, like, there's a lot more good in this matchup than there was in earlier matchups between Austin and okc. And so if you were plotting these all as data points, they would have a clear, like, you know, I can't even. I used to, you know, I took a lot of math when I was in school, but I literally don't remember what it's called. But that line that like, kind of fits the plot, the line of best fit. Yeah, got it. Got it, guys. Still got it. The line of best fit that's going to go through all those data points is going to be clearly trending upwards. So I just bet on the guy. And before you go, you know, and I saw Kevin O' Connor tweeted at me that he might get like, 5 years, 240 million. That's a lot of money that. That's like so much money that, like, I'd have my fair share of concerns, but, like, if Austin gets around 35, 40 million, let's say it's 40 million average annually. Just go look around the league at what guards make. Just go look, all the good guards make that much money. So that's market value. And I'm getting a guy in Austin who continues to get better. And I would bet on next year and the following year being better versions of himself. And yeah, if you get a year or two in the future and it's like, oh, shit, actually he plateaued, then you can make a call at that point about whether or not you want to look to move him. But I just, I just, I. I would bet on Austin Reeves. Today's show is brought to you by presenting sponsor Hard Rock bet, Florida's sportsbook. The second round of the NBA playoffs is here, where the lights are brighter, the pressure is higher, and every possession can change a series. And a Hard Rock bet every night is your shot to score a major bucket with win or go home energy on the hardwood. I love building same game parlays. You might like the hot hand to drop 30, the big man to control the glass with a double double, and the point guard to dish out five assists. However you draw it up Hard Rock Bet gives you tons of ways to stack your picks into a same game parlay built for the playoffs. 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Jason
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Jason
How is the there's signal out here.
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Jason
Actually, can you pull up the way to a T Mobile store?
- [31:28]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
America's best network just got bigger. Switch to T Mobile today and get built in benefits the other guys leave out. Plus our five year price guarantee. And now T Mobile is available at US Cellular stores in hermiston Best Mobile Network Based on analysis by OOKLA of Speed test intelligence data second half of 2025 bigger network the combination of T Mobile's and US Cellular's network footprints will Enhance the T mobile network's coverage price guarantee on talk text and data exclusions like taxes and fees apply. CT mobile.com for details. Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public, you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index with AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, possibilities completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors llc, SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete Disclosures available at public.comdisclosures Jacob this
- [32:54]
Jacob Goldstein
is Jacob Goldstein from what's yous Problem? When you buy business software from lots of vendors, the costs add up and it gets complicated and confusing. Odoo solves this. It's a single company that sells a suite of enterprise apps that handles everything from accounting to inventory to sales. Odoo is all connected on a single platform in a simple and affordable way. You can save money without missing out on the features you need. Check out odoo@odoo.com that's odoo.com.
- [33:31]
Jason
All right, let's we're, we'll, we'll dig a little bit more into those concepts after what happens on Monday, but I think we all know what's going to happen on Monday. Let's move on to Cavs Pistons before we get into our mailbag for a little bit. This series, this game in particular, pivoted on a couple of late game sequences, which I'll talk about in a second, but you can tell that this series is starting to settle in. And there was this funny quote from Kenny Atkinson after the game in the locker room where he was just talked about like, all right, like we're in this, we're in this series now let's go and it's true in the sense that, like, both teams clearly have their matchups and their actions that they like and that they feel like they can get, get good shots out of. And so now it's like, here we go. It's just like the Toronto series. Let's see who makes more shots. Right? And so both teams are really settling and I'll get into what those dynamics are here in a minute. But ultimately, you got to win the games. All three games have come down to crunch time sequences and both teams have got like game one. I thought Detroit got just better shots than the Cavs did and that was why they ended up winning. The hardened shots were very contested floaters. And on the other end of the four, it was like during dunk, during dunk, dun, Duran dunk, another offensive rebound. Like, just really clean looks. For the Pistons, Game two felt a lot more like both teams got good shots. To me, the Cavs, I think, went over seven on catch and shoot threes in the fourth quarter. There were several clean looks down the stretch. Evan Mobley gets a wide open right corner three. Max Truce gets a wide open three off of like a kind of a pump fake relocation off the top of the key. He gets another wide open catch and shoot three off of the right wing. Like, I think Donovan Mitchell had a wide open catch and shoot three on the left wing off of like a pocket pass from James Harden. Like, they just got a lot of really clean looks that they missed. Now Detroit also got clean looks. They have several things that they're doing right now that are, that are getting them clean looks, which we'll get to in a minute. But like, this was a continuation, a continuation of that. Like this was a game where I thought down the stretch, the Cavs and the Pistons both got pretty good looks. Tobias Harris kind of like smoked a little hook shot off the glass and Cade had three straight turnovers that tricked off possessions. Where otherwise the Pistons might have got pretty clean looks. But the Cavs also got clean looks down the stretch through their matchup. Attacking, which we're going to get into in a second. So like, really, if you dig into it, both of these offensive offenses have found ways to score. And out of, of the, you know, three crunch time games, Detroit really only had a clear advantage in one of them. It's been pretty close in the last two. Now what that means is it's going to just simply come down to who's going to win that battle more than the other team. So what do those matchups look like? So starting on the Cav side, obviously Donovan Mitchell, like did more of the, like scoring against the best defender type stuff that we saw tonight. He drew a foul on a SAR Thompson in his straight ISO off the right wing in crunch time. He got a couple of buckets in the second half, like going at Caris LeVert who's one of the better defenders. You know, obviously a much tougher matchup than some of the lighter matchups that they were attacking the Cavs. One of the consistent things I've noticed in this series is the Cavs have had the ability to get the ball into the pocket with the way that Detroit's bigs come up at the ball handler. If they dribble off, they can get the ball into the pocket and get a good look for somebody. They ended up getting multiple wide open catch and shoot threes down the stretch of this game off of pocket passes. Whether it was like Max drew off the right wing, you know, shovel to Evan Mobley in the pocket, extra pass too. I think it was. I think that was the Donovan Mitchell one in this game. James Harden got a wide open catch and shoot three off of the right wing off of a pocket pass sequence. Like they can get the ball into the pocket and get something either for one of their role men or for something on the weak side. But the big one that really popped in this game was James Harden found a matchup that he likes. James Harden finally found a guy that's like, I can score on this guy. Which is key because that's going to be the best opportunity for Donovan Mitchell to have reliable secondary ball handling for the rest of the series. Although Donovan had a good game tonight, but he struggled in other games. James feels comfortable against Tobias Harris and this was something that he kind of was figuring out all game. He was able to consistently get to his left hand on the drive and get into his float game. He was able to consistently get separation on his step back jump shot. He did get Duncan Robinson once down the stretch on kind of a vintage crossover into a floater over over durian at the rim. But it was a steady diet of him going at Tobias Harris in this game. And that is encouraging because again, James has really struggled in this series and so it's important for him to feel like I have a guy I can go at. And again when you start going into hedging, recovers like they tried to protect Duncan Robinson down the stretch with a hedge and recover and they gave a wide open three to Sam Merrill and he knocked it down. And so if you Go to hedging, recovers. You're going to give up catch and shoot threes to guys who can hit shots. So you're better off switching. You go into switching now it turns into a one on one contest. You can tell Mitchell and Harden have found their guys. Mitchell's going at Duncan a lot. James is going at Tobias a lot. He's mixing in reps against Duncan as well. Every once in a while Mitchell will get a little bit ambitious and start going at Cade and he's actually got some decent looks there but like I think he's better off going at other in other directions. But they found their matchups they could that they can go at and James Harden ended up icing this game with straight isos over and over again and really hit the dagger with that. After Kate hit that three that cut it to one, he hit the dagger on that step back three over Tobias Harris and it was kind of one of those classic James Harden griffs where he kicked his feet way forward. But I also thought it was a foul. Like sometimes a player's grifting and it's just clearly a foul. And Tobias got way up under his space and kind of body checked him, got away with it. But that ended up being the game winning shot. And then on the other end of the floor it's pretty consistently Cade and Tobias attacking Donovan, James and a little bit of Max dress as well with size, right. Those guys are working into the mid range for pull up jumpers around that like 10 to 12 foot area and they feel like they can get consistently good looks there. And you know, Detroit has another look that they can go to which we really only saw in game one. But like the, we could see them go without a Sar Thompson and then go with you know, a Dennis Jenkins, Tobias Harris, Duncan Robinson look and give more space so that K can function more as a driver rather than just as like a, a pull up shooter. So they've got a couple other different looks that they can go to, but both teams have really settled into the things that they can do to score in this, in, in each game. Now each game has its own feel, right? Like this was the Paul Reed game. Cleveland goes up big, Donovan goes on that crazy run. Donovan looked up more lively and more pop going towards the basket in this game. But Donovan goes on that run. The Pistons come out to start third quarter and they just have their hair on fire on defense and they get a bunch of stops and Paul Reed comes in and like finally provides some reliable catch and finish stuff. Around the basket. I really thought Jalen Duran would be better in this matchup. I was wrong about that. He's got size and strength, but he plays off of one foot too often. He's not securing as many rebounds as he needs to secure. He's not having as much success as I thought he would in this matchup. And I think JB is going to have to have some long conversations about whether or not he should look at a guy like Paul Reed to give them some more finishing. Isaiah Stewart gives them a combination of some finishing and some rim protection. So it's a complicated decision. Paul Reed is not as good a defender as Isaiah Stewart. So, like, it gets a little complicated. But Paul Reed also gave you, like, he hit a little turnaround right shoulder fade away in the lane in this game. Like, he's got a little bit more offensive polish, which really was advantageous as a spacer underneath the basket in this game. So, like, do you have the Paul Reed run? Right? Cade has these bizarre turnovers and like, it wasn't just the end. So at the end of the game, he's a sideline out of bounds where he throws it right into Max Dress's hands. Then he has this like pick and roll where like Jared Allen shows up at the level and recovers out and he just throws a terrible fee to Duran, who's not even open. Like, even if Jarrett didn't get a hand on it, Duran's not catching it. So, like, it was just a really bad decision. And then he has like this over penetration where he drives one on four and transition into traffic, almost runs over Max Drew and just throws the ball to where Tobias can't catch it before it goes out of bounds. And so Cade honestly just made sloppy, sloppy errors. And it extended further. Like he had this one where he just. Max was just pressuring, pressing on the side baseline and he just threw the ball into the bottom of the basket out of bounds. He got picked out at half court on a play when Max was just applying pressure. So shout out to Max Drew. Like, he straight up earned the. The Cavs three, three extra possessions just with his like token ball pressure on Cade. But, like, what I mean by what I'm trying to say is like, every game kind of has its unique personality, right? Like, this was a game where Cade Cunningham was really, really sloppy with the basketball. This was a game where Paul Reed was amazing, right? This was a game where Dennis Schroeder had a big moment kind of leading the team in that fourth quarter, hit a couple of Big right corner threes off of kickouts. Like, this was the game where Donovan Mitchell felt at his best offensively, right? So each game kind of has its own personality, but you can see through each game, it keeps coming down to the last five minutes. And for the last five minutes, it's like, what are you doing to generate shots? And what are we doing to generate shots? And James is hunting Tobias and Donovan is hunting Duncan, and they're getting the ball into the pocket with Max Streuss in movement shooting situations. And then on the other end of the floor, it's Caden Tobias hunting the Cavs guards for little short turnaround jumpers and little hook shots at the basket. And it really is just about making and missing shots at this point. Like Tobias hits that little left shoulder hook and to Kate doesn't have those stupid turnovers. Pistons are probably up 3 0, right? But you go back to game two, and if Max hits the two wide open threes that he got, and if Evan Mobley hits a wide open three in the right corner, then the Cavs win the game. Cade takes off the dribble threes. He took a tough off the dribble snatch back dribble three against Max Druce and made it in game two. Took another one off a hesitation dribble tonight, made it at the top of the key that cut the lead to one. Like it is now. Very much like each game's gonna have its own personality. It's gonna come down to the last five minutes and like, here we go, check ball. Let's see who's. Let's see who's gonna make more shots down the stretch of this game. Out of the various actions that they like to go to. And the one thing that should be exciting if you're a Cavs fan is James Harden has arrived to the series. And you know, what did I talk about with James from the beginning? It is simply a manner of him giving you a couple of games in a series. Don't have delusions of grandeur. No one ever thought James was going to be the best player on your team. If he is, that's a problem. And there have been points in this playoff run where Donovan's been so uneven that James has had to be the guy. I mean, Donovan got kind of cold at the end of this game and James had to grab the reins. But the point is, James will get you a game or two in each series. He won that game for you. So really the, the what you're hoping for is for a more consistent performance from Donovan so that he can get you three of the four wins you need and James can get you one. Right? Like that's kind of the idea here is like, if James has a really dependable number one, he's going to be bad some games and great others, and he's going to come in and he's going to get you some wins. It reminds me of like what happened in that Sixers series where he hit those two game winners. Was it. I can't remember, I think it might have been against the Celtics, but he had those two game winners. It's like he's going to get you a game here or there. Like that's kind of the experience with James Harden at that point. This point wouldn't be the least bit surprised if you went 4 for 13 in game four. But he got you a game. Now Donovan needs to go get you a game. Donovan needs to go get you a game like that. That's the, that's the dynamic when you're that secondary star. You're a secondary star for a reason. It's. You're not going to be the guy who's great every single night. Now I do think James will be a little bit better the rest of the series because he's kind of solved the puzzle enough to see like, okay, this is where. This is the guy that I like attacking. If I go at Tobias, he's a little too upright, his center of gravity is too high. I can get him shifting side to side. I can beat him off the dribble. I can get into my step back three game. That's my matchup that I'm going at, right? So, like, that's the one really encouraging thing if you're a Cavs fan. All right, let's get into our mailbag. Let's bring Jackson up here. We're lost and kickoff's coming up. I don't want to miss the lineup. I'm gonna ask that man for directions. Hi there. We're trying to get to the stadium.
- [46:31]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
Well, you're going to take a left at the old oak tree at this here road.
- [46:36]
Jacob Goldstein
Nah, I'm just kidding.
- [46:37]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
Let me get my phone out.
- [46:38]
Jason
How is there signal out here?
- [46:40]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
T Mobile and US Cellular are coming together. So the network out here is huge. We get the same great signal as the city, saving a boatload with benefits. And there's a five year price guarantee too. Okay, here's the turn.
- [46:52]
Jason
Actually, can you pull up the way to a T Mobile store?
- [46:55]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
America's best network just got bigger. Switch to T Mobile today and get built in benefits. Benefits the other guys leave out plus our five year price guarantee. And now T Mobile is available at U S Cellular stores in hermiston. Best Mobile Network based on analysis by Ooklove Speed test intelligence data second half of 2025 bigger network the combination of T Mobile's and US Cellular's network footprints will enhance the T Mobile network's coverage price guarantee on talk text and data exclusions like taxes and fees apply. See t mobile.com for details. Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index. With AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, possibilities completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors llc, SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures available at public.com disclosures this
- [48:22]
Jacob Goldstein
is Jacob Goldstein from what's yous Problem? Business software is expensive and when you buy software from lots of different companies, it's not only expensive, it gets confusing. Slow to use, hard to integrate. Odoo solves that because all Odoo software is connected on a single affordable platform. Save money without missing out on the features you need. Odoo has no hidden costs and no limit on features or data. Odoo has over 60 apps available for any needs your business might have, all at no additional charge. Everything from websites to sales to inventory to accounting. All linked and talking to each other. Check out Odoo at O D O o dot com. That's O D O o dot com
- [49:08]
Jackson
all right, we are going to start with the big story of the NBA today other than the playoff games which is that the Golden State warriors gave Steve Kerr a two year contract extension he will be back coaching the warriors this year. Jason, your thoughts?
- [49:24]
Jason
This was something I wanted. We talked about this back when the the Warrior season originally ended. I think that as long as Steph Curry is there, I actually don't think it makes sense to like fully overhaul the team. And there is clear data that shows that Steve Kerr's offense with Steph Curry works. And I'd argue it works really well relative to the amount of talent they have. So like, for me, I think having Steve there and just making minor tweaks like tweaking some things about the way that he plays offense to fit a different era is one thing, but for the most part I want him to kind of run that same kind of like System two. I, I just think it would look really, really weird to see a Steph Curry Draymond Green team that's not led by Steve Kerr. To me, it just feels like an endeavor that they should end together. And then lastly, I'm actually going to let you make this point, Jackson, because I thought it was a really interesting point that you made in a text message today, but it kind of is a precursor to what could be an interesting.
- [50:20]
Jackson
Yeah, I think that Steve Kerr re returning to the warriors absolutely increases the likelihood that the warriors front office makes a play for some sort of Avengers style old man ball where they can try to get to, I mean they don't, they can't add that much more talent, but they're obviously going to try to get LeBron James. I would not surprise me at all if they're going to if they would try to trade for Kevin Durant at this point. Now I think if they brought in a new coach and you're looking at sort of this weird in between what it like kind of, it's kind of a bit of an unknown. If you bring in a new coach, that would dramatically decrease the likelihood of both the front office attempting to get old man talent and old man, you know, veteran talent and the likelihood that veterans would want to go play there. The veterans, it's old men and specifically the guys that were on the Olympic teams of the last couple of years love Steve Kerr. So the, the older, the veterans specifically love Steve Kerr, obviously there's some Tatum whatever. But I think that the Steve Kerr return to the warriors dramatically increases the likelihood that the warriors make a play for the next, you know, two seasons. His contract length is two seasons. I believe Steph Curry has two more seasons left on his deal. I believe so. The timelines match up. It just, it certainly signals to me at least an intention, whether they pull it off or not, it certainly signals to me an intention to make a run for another 18 months.
- [51:41]
Jason
The point you made about the. The point you made to me about the, the, like, Team USA kind of connection he has to those guys was. Was really fascinating to me because, like, I think Coach K kind of had a similar vibe too, where, like, you could just tell there was this profound respect that, that he garnered. And, like, the fact that they won that gold medal together, too, I think just kind of forms like a certain brotherhood, especially in, like, what was literally one of the most epic basketball games of all time. Last note before you go to your next question, because I was just curious because I just had to pull it up again this year with Steph Curry on the floor. The warriors, according to Cleaning the glass when you filter out garbage time, a 119.1 offensive rating. The only teams that were better than that this year were okc, Charlotte, New York, San Antonio, Boston, and Denver. Like, it would rank seventh in the league. Like, and that is literally with Jimmy Butler missing a huge chunk of the season with, like, Al Horford barely being able to play alongside Steph, them essentially not making use of Kaminga and then trading in for Porzingis and Stefan Porzingis getting very few reps together. Moses Moody's knee blows up. Like, this was a disaster year for a team that was operating at a talent disadvantage. And it still is just one of the most reliable forms of offense in the league. And so I like, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. It needs more talent, but the system works.
- [53:04]
Jackson
Agreed. Next question. The YouTube chat is demanding it. They said they want to know what you think of The Austin and LeBron foul grifting tonight, as well as the complaining to the officials and sort of the jurisdiction following up on the officiating conversation in general after tonight's game,
- [53:21]
Jason
a couple things. LeBron wasn't grifting, he just was complaining. That's two very different things. Austin was grifting and we'll get into that, but LeBron was not grifting. LeBron was complaining. And for the record, I tweeted this during the game and I, I just thought this was a well officiated game. Like, to me, the conversation we were having about flopping after game one was not because, like, everyone was like, oh, Shay only shot three free throws. No, no one cares that Shay shot three free throws. That was a well officiated game in terms of, like, not rewarding the, the, the behavior. It's the behavior is hard to watch. And it's hard to watch for me too. And I've talked about the guys. There were nights this year, days, because we work more during the day. During the regular season back in December where I was coming on this show, we weren't talking Thunder, we weren't talking Shay, and I was complaining about how hard it was to watch Luca twerk down the lane line every, every single time hunting for fouls. Like it's hard for me to watch. Right? Game two was a poorly officiated game because I thought that there were a lot of fouls committed and it just was a game where I thought the Thunder got a favorable whistle. That said, I didn't even talk about that in the post game show because I think that that's part of basketball. I think part of basketball is you go into a game and sometimes you get a good whistle, sometimes you get a neutral whistle, and sometimes you get a bad whistle. How every basketball game usually has somewhere between like a dozen and two dozen bad calls. And when there's two dozen bad calls, that's just a poorly officiated game. And Sometimes it's a two dozen bad call game where each team gets 12 bad calls and it's like a poorly officiated game that doesn't favor either team. And sometimes it's a game where there's 24 bad calls and 12 or like 18 of them go against one team and six of them go against the other team and it's like, okay, now it's poorly officiated and it's lopsided. But that, that can happen. That, that like I have watched games where the Lakers have been on the right side of that dynamic to the in the game on Thursday night, I thought they were on the wrong side of that dynamic, you know, and then there are games like tonight where I just didn't think there were that many bad calls. I just thought it was a really well officiated game. I didn't think it favored either team. I thought that those two plays where LeBron drove in transition and wanted calls, I thought those were good verticality contests. I didn't think those were fouls. The play that Doris Burke called out, the low gather. So like this is a textbook example of what I would consider to be a non basketball play and why I actually love the way that that was a non call. So Austin's driving down the left lane line and Hardenstein sliding with him laterally and he's got his angle opened for Austin to continue driving down the lane line. And he's trying to bait him into a shot so that he can go for a block or something. And what does he do? He goes like back into Hartenstein with his arms way out, extended out in front of him and like, yeah, Hartenstein hits him with his arm. So like, yeah, by the book, it's a foul. But like, what basketball? Like, can you imagine how ridiculous it would be if you were playing in your men's league or you're playing in your, your pickup run tomorrow morning and like you were sliding alongside a guy and he just raked his arms into you and just said it, just yelled out foul. You'd be like, what the hell are you doing? Like, that's not a basketball play. I'm here. You should be trying to go around me, not back into me. Like, that's a non basketball play. And so, yes, it was by the book, but it was a non basketball play. The rest didn't award it. I am 100% on board with that. That, to me, is how you make sure the game of basketball feels like a game of basketball. And my whole thing is like, if it's a blatant foul, like if LeBron spins off of a post up in Game 2 and J will comes flying in on A to B contact and body checks LeBron into the ground, that's a foul. But if Austin does a non basketball play and there is a foul, but it's a non basketball play, I don't want that being rewarded. Similarly, the James Harden step back three. James Harden grifted. I don't think that should have been a foul because James kicked his feet. Like, if you watch the replay, James's feet took off from about 26ft, like three, four feet behind the three point line. And his feet landed a foot inside the three point line. Like he jumped and kicked his legs way out. But if you watch just Tobias, Tobias, his feet end up landing like just barely in front of where James took off from. Like, so those are two. We're having two separate conversations there. Like, did James flop? Yeah. And if Tobias had done a more natural contest and James fell, I never want to see that called. But yeah, Tobias actually did run James out on that. Like, I am not under the impression that Shea should never shoot a free throw or that Austin should never shoot a free throw or that LeBron should never shoot a free throw. I'm generally of the opinion that if it's. If basketball is being played and two dudes are jockeying with physicality, let them go. But if Basketball is being played in. The defensive player clearly goes beyond the rules to hack or body check a player out, call the foul and if the offensive player clearly goes beyond what is natural basketball to try to draw a foul, ignore it and let's play basketball. Like it's, to me it's, it so commonly gets like reduced down to like well what about the free throw totals or what about this play that didn't get called? Or what about this play that did get called? It's like guys, this is a super complicated thing. We're talking about officiating a fast moving sport with the best athletes in the world. It is not like Jackson talked about this a couple nights ago. This is not easy. This is not easy. But there are tweaks that can be made to make it better. And the perfect ecosystem to me is keep it as much to the purest form of basketball as possible and keep the flow of the game moving. But it like, yeah, if a guy throws a hedge on Steph Castle and he's like damn near tackling him out at half court, you got to blow the whistle. There are fouls occur in basketball games. Fouls have to be called, but they should just be centered around a real basketball dynamic and certain amounts of physicality should be kind of like mutually allowed. When a post player is jockeying for position or a driver is hand fighting with the on ball defender. Those are the kinds of things where I think that kind of lends itself to grifting in a way on both sides. Like whether it's taking charges on post ups or it's you know, flopping from the on ball handler. There's a lot of, there's a lot of like stuff there where the grifting is entered in when it should just be like more gamesmanship between the two players.
- [60:19]
Jackson
We got a lot of questions about OKC and about their team construct and what they should do, sort of big picture. But we are going to get to that before we get to that since we are on the topic of that low gather play by Austin Reeves. The chat wants to know, I want to know what did you think of the Doris Burke shout out?
- [60:36]
Jason
Okay, you can imagine my life here. So my wife has a friend in town. She has a couple friends visit usually when, when I'm in my busy season because I'm working a ton. So her and her friend Christina are out celebrating my wife's birthday which was a few weeks ago. And so I'm by myself. I ordered pizza. I like I my wife not a big pizza person So I always order pizza whenever she's out. Order pizza. I'm sitting down in my basement. My dogs are all laid up around me. I got the game on. I have my laptop out. I'm watching Cavs Pistons again. That's usually what I do is I rewatch the second or first game while I'm watching the second game during stoppages, and I'm, like, putting notes together, and. And I, like. It's a stoppage, right? Like, the game's not happening, and every time there's a stoppage, I'm just, like, looking down at my laptop and, like, watching film, and all of a sudden, my ears perk up. I'm like, did George Burke just say my name? I was like, legitimately, like, what the hell is happening? And then, like, within seconds, my phone just starts blowing up. Just, like. Just like, blowing up. And so it was. It was. It was definitely a cool moment. I thought it was hilarious, too, because, like, I. I was, like, down on my laptop, like, typing out a tweet, agreeing with Doris that, like, I thought that the grift from the. From Austin was a good no call. And then, you know, Doris. Doris is just. She's the goat. And that was. That was just a really cool moment for me. I was. I was. It was. That was just kind of surreal. Happened. Happened to nowhere. Not. Was not expecting that. It was, like, super bizarre, for sure.
- [62:01]
Jackson
Shouts to you. Shouts to DB as well. All right, couple of questions about the Thunder. One question. I think the question is, I think A.J. mitchell could be the lead guy on a contending team similar to what Jalen Brunson is doing with the Knicks right now. That is high praise. Your thoughts, Jason.
- [62:15]
Jason
That is really high priest. So I was. I was texting with Carson from Nerd Sess about this earlier because, like, you know, Carson's a. A big OKC proponent these days, and he's a guy that I run a lot of my OKC takes by just to see what his thoughts are. And he's just become a friend of mine in the business. And I was like, at what point, instead of trading AJ do you trade J Dub? You know, like, if you view. And for the record, that's not a decision you make right now, and that's not an underestimation of J Dub. Jdub's an amazing player, but, like, I. I keep thinking, like, one of the biggest reasons why this Thunder team is so good is because they were able to throw a lot of money at Isaiah Hartenstein, and they were able to throw A lot of money at Alex Caruso and like having that ability requires a certain amount of financial flexibility. And even though J Dub is probably a better all around player than aj, AJ is on a rookie scale contract still. And like, like I'm not for the record, I don't want this getting aggregated. I'm not here saying like go trade J Dub. I'm just saying like just as a thought exercise, like this team, this team looks really damn good without him and he makes a lot of money and if you could like throw that money around in other ways to retain players to, you know, keep other parts of the depth of this roster together, like what if that was what gave you the ability to re sign Hartenstein for like a two year deal? You know, something along those lines. And I, I, that is not intended to be a commentary on JW. JDub had 40 points in a playoff game, in a finals game. J Dub is incredible. He's clearly a much better defensive player than aj. Although I think AJ is a good defensive player, I think AJ's dribble penetration makes him a more useful offensive player in certain settings. But I do want to see it against San Antonio. I do want to see a proof of concept against higher level competition. So I, that's why I want to see another round. But AJ, to me like his usefulness on offense is, is super impressive and like on a rookie scale contract he just, he's just immensely valuable and he's just an incredible basketball player and I really enjoyed watching.
- [64:20]
Jackson
He was awesome. And as the chat pointed out, and I forgot this as well, he's not actually on a rookie scale contract. He, they signed into a three year, nine million dollar contract a couple of years ago. So, so next season he's making 3 million and, and the following season they have a team option for 3 million. So while he's only making $3 million a year, there's a 0%. There's no way you can trade him. In my opinion, like there's no way you can trade him right now.
- [64:43]
Jason
We Jackson were watching him in summer league last year. Like Jackson and I were at Thomas and back going like, oh, I forgot A.J. mitchell's going to be in summer league. Yeah. And he just outplayed Austin Reeves, the best player on the floor.
- [64:58]
Jackson
I think unquestionably tonight. Yeah, tonight he was okay on the Thunder and talking about Hardenstein as well. At some point they are gonna have to make decisions about who they can keep, who they can't keep. If the question was about these two specific Players, if you had to choose, who would you rather keep, Isaiah Hartenstein or Lou Dort?
- [65:17]
Jason
Hardenstein, no question. I just think that as good as Lou Dort is and Lou Dort, I don't want to undervalue Lou Dort, because to put it very simply, if he wasn't guarding LeBron, LeBron's probably averaging 30 in the series, but the Thunder is still winning is the point. And Hartenstein, to me, with Chet, has been like the fail point of the series. He provides a physicality on the front line to where if Chet was there without Hartenstein, I think it's really difficult. Like, I think they'd still be really, really good. But, like. And they have Jay Will, so Jay Will can slide in and do that job. Like, like we talked about two nights ago, the Thunder have a lot of duplicative talent at certain spots, but, like, I just think. I think Isaiah Hartenstein is actually more important to their title hopes this year than Lou Dort.
- [66:02]
Jackson
Last question of the night. This is a sort of look ahead, and I know that the Timberwolves series is not over. Timberwolves fans are ready to sit, quick to say, it's not over and it's not over. But if we get the Spurs Thunder series next round, the question from our homie Will from playback last year was, how do you think OKC can or will or will not be able to use their too big look against the spurs, who, you know, aside from Wemby, often go a little bit smaller. Notably, their starting lineup is. Is quite a bit smaller.
- [66:32]
Jason
This series is going to be such a fascinating chess match, similar to what we were talking about with Philly in the Knick series. With respect to OG Anunoby, there just isn't really a player for the spurs other than Keldon Johnson, who's a bench guy who, like, really plays a power game. Steph plays a power game. I'll give. I'll give him that. But, like, not at like, the. Like, they don't have, like, a Julius Randall is my point. So I think OKC is going to be able to go small. And if I remember correctly, didn't Hardenstein's minutes tank against the Pacers last year?
- [67:18]
Jackson
I think. I don't remember.
- [67:21]
Jason
Yeah, but, like, that's kind of the. The advantage of the way this team is put together is they can kind of go like, all right, we're playing Denver. Hardenstein's gonna play a ton of minutes. All right, now we're playing Indiana. The minutes. Yeah, so, like, minutes against Denver, Hartenstein. 28, 22, 30, 33, 33, 25, 17 minutes in the finals. 17, 22, 18, 21, 27, 16, 18. And even against Minnesota, his numbers went as minutes went down, which actually is surprising considering they do have some bully ball players. But like the whole point is they can kind of like shape shift. The other thing too is like, my guess is that J Dub will be available in the next round. And I do think that like having J Dub available is a super important part of them going small. Yeah, because J Dub has like a certain trunkiness to him where like, like if you played, you could play Shea, J Dub, Dort, Caruso, chat, and other than Chet and Shay, you're pretty beefy at those other three spots in terms of like strength and like low center of gravity, ability to beat guys to spots. And that group could have a lot of switchability in action with Wemby. Like you can imagine a universe where like they put J Dub on, on Wemby and they put like Dort on Steph Castle and they put Caruso on Fox and they just go, any action with Wemby and those dudes were switching and just kind of shut those things down. And we always have like a six, six pretty strong dude or Dort at least underneath Wemby making his life difficult. And like that, that, that series is just. Dude, I just. That series is going to be an all timer, man. Like, we're going to have so much fun covering that series on this show. Like every night it's going to be like, oh, I can't believe we get to watch these guys again. Like, it's going to be incredible. All right, guys, that is all we have for tonight. As always, we sincerely appreciate you guys for supporting us and supporting the show. We will not, I promise this time have a video tomorrow morning. I woke up this morning and just wanted to talk more about Wemby, but no morning episode. Tomorrow we'll be going live from my hotel room in Chicago. I'm going to Chicago to do some, to do some shows at the Herd in studio. Also going to be a big moment for me. Feeling very, very lucky. We may or may not make an appearance at the draft combine. We're waiting on some stuff with, with credentials, so we'll see, but we're gonna be in Chicago, so. Live from my hotel room. Apologies to the person next door who's gonna have to listen to us in the middle of the night, but we're gonna be live in my hotel room. After the final buzzer of game four. Wolf Foreign. I'm U.S. transportation Secretary Sean Duffy.
- [70:11]
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Jason
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Jason
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Jason
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- [72:27]
Jason
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