← The Herd with Colin Cowherd
The Herd with Colin Cowherd
Hoops Tonight - LIVE: Game 3 Reactions: Clippers/Nuggets, Knicks/Pistons, Thunder/Grizzlies
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- [00:00]
Jason
T Mobile stats are as impressive as your favorite athlete's highlight reel because T Mobile helps keep you connected from the heart of Portland to right where you are on America's largest 5G network. Switch now keep your phone and T Mobile will pay it off up to $800 per line via prepaid card. Visit your local T Mobile location or learn more@t mobile.com keepandswitch up to 4 lines of your virtual prepaid card. Allow 15 days qualifying unlock device, credit service support in 90 plus days device, knowledgeable carrier and timely redemption required. Card has no cash access and expires in six months. Foreign Free Agents Podcast with Daniel Jeremiah and Greg Rosenthal has prepared you for the 2025 NFL Draft.
- [00:40]
Jackson
We've told you what last year's playoff teams need to return to the postseason.
- [00:43]
Jason
And how teams with new coaches should approach the draft.
- [00:46]
Jackson
So as draft season comes to a close, we've got you covered. Before your favorite team goes on the clock, we'll break it all down once all 257 picks have been made.
- [00:55]
Jason
Listen to the 40s and free agents podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. The volume the NBA 82 game grind is done and now the real fun begins. The NBA Playoffs are here and it's time for all the high stakes drama, clutch moments and jaw dropping plays. I can't wait. If you're looking to make the playoffs Even more exciting, DraftKings sportsbook has you covered as an official sports betting partner of the NBA. From the play in games all the way through to the finals, now's the time to back your favorite players and teams as they chase glory. All season long, DraftKings has been the go to spot for NBA player props and that does not stop now. Want to make your playoff experience even more intense? Try placing a bet on your favorite player's performance. Will they drop 30 points? 40 or more? It's your call. Ready to place your first bet? Download the DraftKings sportsbook app now. Lock in your bets. Let's make this playoff run unforgettable. Here's something special for first timers. New DraftKings customers bet $5 to get $200 in bonus bets instantly. Make it a playoff run to remember with DraftKings. Download the DraftKings sportsbook app and use code Hoops. That's H O O P S. That's code Hoops for new customers to get $200 in bonus bets. When you bet just five bucks only on DraftKings, the crown is yours gambling problem, call 1-800- gambler in New York, call 877-8-HOPENY or text HOPENY to 467-369 in Connecticut. Help is available for problem gambling. Call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org Please play responsibly on behalf of Boot Hill Casino and Resort in Kansas. 21 plus. Age and eligibility varies by jurisdiction. Void in Ontario. New customers only. Bonus bets expire 168 hours after issuance. For additional terms and responsible gaming resources, see DKNG C CO Audio all right, welcome to Hoops Tonight here at the Volume. Happy Thursday everybody. Hope all of you guys are having a great week. We are going to briefly touch on all three games from tonight as the Clippers blow out the Denver Nuggets riding a early run in the game, a 29 to six run spanning the first and second quarters that they never were able to recover from. The New York Knicks finally got their offense going against the Detroit Pistons. I really want to dive into that concept a little bit as they looked much more fluid offensively in a big road win to steal home court advantage back against the Pistons. Then at the tail end of the show, thanks to the blowout by the Clippers against the Nuggets, I was able to catch the fourth quarter of Thunder Grizzlies. And so on the one hand I missed the early portion of the game when the Thunder struggled. I'll be watching that on. I'm going to watch that in the morning just to try to see if there's anything worth taking away from that or if it was just a textbook Game three Buzzsaw. I always call Game three the Buzzsaw game because that's the game you go on the road. You're a huge, you're a huge favorite, but the the underdog obviously is more motivated. It's just such a tough game in general. But I did see in the fourth quarter an opportunity for us to look at the Thunder clutch offense for the first time in this postseason. So I want to dive into that concept a little bit. And then at the tail end of the show, like we do every single night, we're going to be bringing Jackson on to take a Good, you know, 20, 25 minutes questions from the chat so we can get into a bunch of other stuff around the playoffs. All right, let's. Oh well, I gotta get into our announcements before we get started. Don't forget to subscribe to our YouTube channel so you don't miss any more of our videos. Follow me on Twitter at_jason lt so you guys don't miss show announcements. Don't forget about our podcast feed. Wherever you get your podcast under Hoops Tonight. That's also super helpful. Helpful if you leave a rating and a review on that front. We also have social media feeds on Twitter, Instagram and Facebook. We're releasing content throughout the rest of the season. And then don't forget to keep dropping those mailbag questions in the YouTube comments. All right, let's talk some basketball. So I actually thought the Clippers came out a little sloppy, particularly on the defensive end of the floor. The Nuggets made something crazy like 9 of their first 10 shots or 8 of their first 9 shots. They kept losing, specifically James Harden and Norman Powell kept losing cutters along the baseline. Christian Brown just sneaking around down there. Aaron Gordon sneaking around down there. They were just letting Denver get too comfortable on the offensive end of the floor and it actually looked like it was going to be a little bit more of like a oh, Denver's going to take an early commanding lead here kind of thing. They were up 26 to 19, but in a seven minute stretch spanning from about three minutes to go in the first quarter to about eight minutes to go in the second quarter, the Nuggets got outscored 29 to 6 and that really was the game. They lost control and they were fighting uphill the rest of the way and they never recover. We've seen these two teams when they're both really on top of their game in this series, they kind of go bucket for bucket with each other. They don't. It's going to be really difficult for any team to make up a large deficit in this series, but kind of came down to a couple of things. James Harden just got crazy hot in that first quarter stretch, setting his ball screens a little bit further out so he could get a little bit more of a kind of like a clean, some clean footwork into his pull up threes coming off of those ball screens. He did a good job of dragging the at the level coverage far away to create extra space for the Clippers to attack on the back end. James Harden was amazing all night. He was the primary driver of the explosive scoring that the Clippers showed in the first half. He had 20 points and four assists with zero turnovers just in the first half. He was the guy who kind of initially broke things open. I think they ended up going into the quarter end of the quarter I think 35 to 28 and then it was just a quick run Right at the start a Kawhi Zubots led group in the early second quarter. Kawhi had several really nice feeds out of post up double teams in that second quarter and that was it. It was 48 to 32 and then they just kind of went back to their Nuggets. Clippers were going to go back and forth the rest of the game type of night and they just were never able to regain control of the situation. I thought Nick Batum was awesome in that first half. His ability to knock down, catch and shoot threes without needing to dip is his major asset. That is a any of you guys who've ever played basketball at any level, you understand that like when you catch on the perimeter, there's usually like a load up, right? Like you're going to squat down so that you can get lift up into your shot so that you have an easy breezy release at the top. And in the process, a lot of people need to gather the ball somewhere down around their waist, right as they bring the ball up and try to transfer that energy from their legs up through the top of the shot. Some of the best shooters in the world, and Nick Batum is one of the very best at this specific thing, can catch right from wherever the ball comes. And if the pass is over here, over here, over here, over here, it doesn't matter. They can flow right up into the top of the shot. They don't need to gather the ball down into the pocket in order to rise up and shoot. They can go from wherever they catch the ball straight into the shooting pocket and rise up and release. The reason why that's important is in the playoffs, like we talked about, the closeouts are harder. The openings are fewer and further between. It's a lot harder to get those, you know, clean catch and shoot looks that you get in the regular season. And Nick Batum's ability to just easy, quickly, easy breezy release these catch and shoot threes against closeouts has been super valuable over the course of the early portion of this series. And then honestly after the Clippers started to build separation in that second quarter, you kind of feel the Nuggets let go of the defensive rope a little bit. Norman Powell started to get some really clean looks he got going in this game. Some closeouts were Norman Power was able to drive in. The Nuggets weren't really shrinking the floor the way they were at earlier points in the series. It just kind of went off the rails for there on the Nuggets front. They were basically fine outside of that stretch, like, they came out hot. They were defending well early. It's just this is a series for them with how bad their defense can be when things get out of control. They can't afford to let go of the rope. If there is an upside, the Nuggets did defend Kawhi Leonard a little better. I just thought they were more physical with him. That was really the main thing that I noticed is they just basically were like, hey, there's all these uncalled fouls that are happening all over the playoff field. What if we just bring that physicality to Kawhi and maybe disrupt his rhythm a little bit? I thought that had some impact. Westbrook had a rough night after. He's been pretty good. At the start of this series, he was -16 and nine minutes. There was a report I saw that he's dealing with some inflammation in his foot. So let's hope that Russell Westbrook is doing okay. But one of the big things that I noticed there is he was just a little too aggressive, which is with his catch and catch and shoot threes. He made one along the left wing that was like an above the break three. And it was a great look. It was like completely wide open. It was out of a post double. I think, of Jokic, if I remember correctly. There was no closeout. It was clean and easy. But towards the end of that run, out of those five threes, there were two of them that he took that were pretty heavily contested. And like, that's the thing. Like Russ, when he's playing within himself, in the sense that he's taking these wide open catch and shoot threes, preferably out of the corner. And that's the other thing, too. Like, I would situate him in the corner more because I think you get more off ball utility anyway, in the sense that if you're at the top of the key, there's only so much cutting you can do without compromising your transition defense. And when the shot goes up and you're at the top of the key, your responsibility is get back in transition defense, not to crash the offensive class. I almost like Russell Westbrook in a situation where he's crashing more cutting along the baseline. I think he's better served in the middle of the floor and out of the corners when he's off the ball alongside Jokic. And so that was just kind of a rough Westbrook shift. Again, like the. The one upside them being able to defend Kawhi a little bit better. But the cli. The. The Clippers just brought a Great punch tonight. And the Nuggets just that was their worst game of the series in terms of their execution. They really let go of the rope for a little bit. Now they're down 2:1 and they're going to have to get one of these games. And game four is going to be an opportunity for them to try to just hang onto the rope throughout the rest of the game. Because again for them as we know, if they can get to five minutes left within around, you know, five, eight points. I like the Nuggets chances in this series, but if they allow the Clippers to build margin, it's going to be really difficult for them to hang around. All right, let's go to Knicks Pistons. How did the Knicks get their offense going? That was the interesting story of tonight. I think they finished with 118 points won by a little bit more of a healthy margin than what would the scoreboard would lead you to believe thanks to some late game. Just foul shooting and the Pistons knocking down a couple of threes late in the game. But the Knicks in general looked way better on offense in this game. Started with early transition pushes. This is an easy way to trigger some of their more natural driving kick sequences. So when you're in the half court you can run ISO, you can run pick and roll, but when you're in transition, transition is not ISO basketball. Transition is driving kick basketball. When you're pushing the ball up the floor and a guy catches wide open in the corner and a guy sprints off of him and he attacks that closeout and everyone's in this chaotic situation and there's all these easy driving kick reads that are available. The ball doesn't stick, the ball moves around. And so early in the game Mikhail Bridges gets a clean catch and shoot look up along the left wing in transition that he knocks down. OG Anunoby gets a clean look right out of the right corner. Carl Anthony Towns got like three or four great advantage catches right at the top of the key, drove one and got a foul hit a couple of threes that was in in transition was where they were able to get everybody in rhythm early. And then a little bit of an effort from Tibs to just keep guys involved with their half court sets. They ran an early screening action for OG and Anobi coming out of the right corner where he slipped a screen and got a dunk. So like again, just making a more deliberate effort to get him involved. Early post ups for Carl Anthony Towns in the game there was way less Brunson pick and Roll in this game. Brunson attempted a shot and pick and roll just seven times tonight. He did so 25 times in the first two games. So they basically like cut Brunson pick and roll reps in half in this game. Way more opportunities for everyone else. Mikhail Bridges only took one shot out of a ball screen in game two. They got five points out of Mikhail Bridges shooting out of ball screens tonight. OG Anunoby only got one chance to create a shot on an island in Game 2, a post up of Kate Cunningham, where he kind of spun baseline and ended up turning the ball over. He shot out of an ice or post up four times tonight. So there's just a lot more of an effort to keep everyone involved, to keep everyone in rhythm. And as a result, the offense looked way better. All four of their stars scored over 20 points. The team scored 118 points. Yet when they got into crunch time, they were still able to be like, all right, we're going to go to a steady dose of Brunson. They mixed in some other things. They ran a random cat ISO late in the game, which we'll talk about in a minute, but they were able to still go to Brunson down the stretch, but he's fresher. Like, he was able to straight up. He was frying Tobias Harris and Dennis Schroeder down the stretch, but Dennis Schroeder in particular, he powered through him twice. Like, went through his chest and made it look like he wasn't there and got right to the front of the rim for easy layups. And a big part of that stems from you don't need him to run as much action during the game so he has more gas in the tank. Late in the game. J.B. bickerstaff had to literally switch Kate Cunningham onto him because of how much success he was having. Literally bullying Dennis Schroeder. That was a matchup where Dennis had had some success against him early in the series. It looks like Brunson has that completely figured out now. They were able to go to Cat on a big possession late. I thought this was important and this is part of that. This was a face up ISO against Tobias Harris. Now, remember like we talked about in the show the other day, in game one, Cat runs seven isos. He runs zero in game two. And so it's just something that they went away from. They were able to get into that action more frequently tonight. They go to it in crunch time. He rips to the right to buy his beats into the spot. Really nice defense. Cat Pivots into, like he's going to spin, turn his back to the basket to turn over his right shoulder, and he throws a hard shoulder fake, just a really hard shoulder fake. On that fake spin, Tobias bites on it and just gets completely shed off of him. That way Cat's able to pivot back over his left shoulder and got great separation. Actually a really nice look for Cat there along the right baseline. And he knocked that shot down. It was a massive shot in that game. Mikhail Bridges hit a big catch and shoot three out of the left corner one that put them up 11. That was the same shot he was missing in game two. Now, I am of the opinion that that stuff really matters in terms of like connecting throughout the game, the rhythm of the whole team. So that when you're in late game situations, guys feel good about the shots that they're taking. So the guys feel like they're confident and in rhythm. You know, that's the thing is like, Jalen Brunson can still. I was actually talking about this with my buddy Combo. He's a big Knicks fan, and I tweeted out the link to the show today, so you guys can see it there if you want to hear a little bit more Knicks talk. But like, I. One of the things I said to him was like, just because you need to get everybody involved, and this was this morning before the game, I was like, just because you need to get everyone involved doesn't mean you don't go to Brunson down the stretch. Brunson's the best clutch player in the league right now. Brunson had. Brunson is 14 clutch points in this postseason. That's the most in the entire NBA so far. He's personally outscoring Cade Cunningham 14 to 4 in the clutch in this series. You want to ride Jalen Brunson in those situations. You just want to put him in a situation where he's not super exhausted when he gets there. And then if for whatever reason he does want to take a possession off, you have another action that's in rhythm that you can go to and that all of your catch and shoot guys, your closeout drivers, things along those lines are all feeling good and in rhythm. All four of their stars scored over 20 points. You got Cat back up over 30. That's the formula for the Knicks. Use your defense to get out in transition so that your whole team is moving the ball around and attacking with an advantage. And then in the half court, invest early in the game in action for your co stars. So that they're in a better rhythm then ride Jalen Brunson late. That's your advantage in this series with the Pistons. They have late game execution problems. They have lower, like, lesser talented players that they're leaning on in big moments late in the game. You have more aggregate skill if you lean on it. That's your advantage. Once again for the Pistons, though, late game execution. Like, Cade had a big turnover late where he shed OG in an obi with frankly, just a disgusting spin movie. Like, drove Adam to the right and spun and OG like, went into camera row and he just didn't read the floor after that. And then he just went right up against the rim protector. It looked like he ran into a brick wall and he just immediately lost control of the basketball. Just wasn't seeing the floor on that possession. Tobias Harris lost the ball and like, a basic dribble move in the fourth quarter where he just tried to make an aggressive dribble move to his left and just lost control of it. Jalen Duran had two really bizarre sequences. The jump ball where he has a clear size advantage, and he just like, slaps the ball out of bounds instead of just like lightly tapping it to his teammates that were there waiting. I was really confused as to why J.B. bickerstaff had Jalen Duran inbound on that final sequence. That sequence was ridiculous, by the way. And honestly, like, I. I was having a hard time understanding, like, I get why they ended up just inbounding with 5/10 of a second left, but, like, considering the clock operator was in Detroit and he's the guy that, like, pressed play on the clock right after the ball hit the rim. It felt kind of weird that the Pistons were just rewarded with a sideline out of bounds, when in theory, the reason why Jalen Brunson is missing that shot is so that the catch is coming off of a rebound instead of off of a deliberate inbounds pass. But regardless, they're gifted. The sideline out of bound sequence. I would have actually gone with Cade. I know it sounds crazy, but, like, when you're in those situations, the odds of you even getting a clean look are incredibly low because it's five tenths of a second, right? So you basically have to catch and shoot immediately. So, like, that pass has to be perfect. So you're almost better off just having Cade inbound, even though Kate is one of your shooters. You have Cade inbound, you park Jaylen Duran right underneath the basket. Cause you're only down 2. And so if they don't Account for Jaylen Duran. He's standing right under the basket. You could just literally throw it up to him. You probably just run basically like that. That classic Finland action where you just have a shooter like Malik Beasley back screen for Jaylen Duran so that Jaylen Duran goes to the rim. If they don't help at all, or if Jaylen Duran's man is just sitting back there, you have a. You have an opportunity to just. If Jalen Duran's man is sitting up there, you have Jalen Duran as a. In a screen there with. With Malik Beasley coming off of that action. And so then essentially, as Durin cuts, they're helping at the rim, you get Beasley coming off in action. Just hope that Cade can just laser a pass somewhere where Malik can quick catch and turn around and shoot. But, like, in that situation, putting a guy that, like, clearly doesn't have any touch, like, I mean, that. That was the issue on the jump ball, was the touch, right? And you put him in a situation where you needed him to make, like, probably the most difficult pass he'll ever make in his life. And predictably, he just ended up launching it out of bounds. But, you know, that's really the story of the series for me. Like, on the one end of the floor, the Knicks just know exactly what they want to do. Jalen Brunson feels great going right at Schroeder. He feels great going at Tobias Harris. Whichever one of those two you want to have in the game, if you have both of them in the game, he's going to just take his pick and he's going to hunt, and then they can go to cat against Tobias Harris. In ISO, they have, like, this clear kind of order of operations and then, like, clutch points thing we talked about. Like, Cade only has four clutch points in this series, and this has been a clutch series. This has been a series where it's been about scoring in the final few minutes of the game. And Cade has just struggled to keep up with Jalen Brunson in that regard. And so it's just it. No, no, no shout out to, you know, no shot at Cade. Because the reality is, is this is his first time. Like we talked about last night, Jalen Brunson's been in, what's this, his ninth playoff series in the last four years. So, like, there's obviously an experience gap there, but, like, he just has to be better. And it's going to be really hard for the Pistons to overcome that experience advantage that the knicks have the 40s and free agents Podcast with Daniel Jeremiah and Greg Rosenthal has prepared you for the 2025 NFL Draft.
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Jackson
We've told you at last year's playoff team teams need to return to the.
- [21:21]
Jason
Postseason and how teams with new coaches should approach the draft.
- [21:25]
Jackson
So as draft season comes to a close, we've got you covered. Before your favorite team goes on the clock. We'll break it all down once all 257 picks have been made.
- [21:33]
Jason
Listen to the 40s and free agents podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. So Thunder Grizzlies for obvious reasons, I was focused on the other games tonight. But when I saw the report that Ja was out, I actually thought to myself, I'm like, the Thunder probably can get this game. I think what people don't realize is like that Jaw factor, that pace that he plays with, his ability to just draw attention in the middle of the floor, that is what creates advantages for everyone else to play easier brand an easier brand of basketball. And as soon as Jaw is out there, it's like, okay, you have Jaren Jackson and like he, he hit a tough hook in the fourth quarter over a triple team and like there were a couple sequences where he made passes out of double teams that led to decent looks. But like Jaren Jackson's not exactly a half court surgeon. Desmond Bain, this is just a nightmare matchup for him because he's not particularly tall and the Thunder just have all sorts of bodies to throw at him. And Scotty Pippen Jr. Like, it's really amazing what he's done with his career, turning himself from a two way player to like a legitimate backup point guard in the NBA. And he had a brilliant night, shot the basketball really well. But like it's just a lot to ask him to create offense against the Oklahoma City Thunder defense when they're really engaged. And so I thought, I thought they had a probability, a legitimate probability to win that game. And I was able to switch over in the fourth quarter right after the Clippers put the Nuggets away and we got to see some crunch time Thunder basketball. Now predictably, they strangled Memphis's offense like I talked about earlier, not hard to do with John Morant, John Morant out as a team. They just upped their pressure and intensity and things just got super difficult for Memphis. But what I'm interested in is what they did on the other side of the floor. This was our first opportunity to look at some crunch time offense from the Oklahoma City Thunder this year. First of all, Alex Caruso ended up being the fifth closer, which I thought was interesting. They'd rather close small so that they can switch. I personally think that's the right decision. I think Crusoe is just so good defensively and he can scale up defensively like we saw in that possession where he defended Jaren Jackson one on one and like stripped him clean as he went to go to his left shoulder hook or his right shoulder hook. Like, Crusoe plays big enough and does enough defensively at every single position that I think it's worthwhile to have him out there as that fifth closer. In that situation. We saw a steady diet of two man game in the middle of the floor. Whether it was Shay and J Dub if you wanted to attack Scottie Pippen Jr. Or Shay and Alex Caruso if you wanted to attack Santi Aldama. And what I was impressed by is in the early fourth quarter stretch when the bench group was still out there and they were starting their comeback, Shay was really looking to score and he was taking a lot of quick jump shots early in the shot clock, pushing the ball in transition, that sort of thing. Down the stretch though, he did not force the issue. He made multiple reads out of doubles. A really nice drop off to Lou Dort outside the left block. And Lou Dort made like a insane shot over Zach Edie in that situation where he just kind of like flailed up into his body and banked it in. There was a pass to Alex Crusoe that led to a driving kick sequence. Drew, the double team kicked it to Crusoe. Crusoe drove, Chet relocated up out of the right corner, up to the right wing, knocked down his fifth three of the game, I believe. And all those threes were massive. It ended up drawing the hard closeout that led to that big dunk that he had driving out of the right slot in the fourth quarter. It was just actually like really nice playing together, sharing the ball, taking the easy reads that were available. The big thing, like not getting rushed, like getting into the middle of the floor and instead of looking to shoot in traffic, looking for the reads that are there in traffic, like they. I've been really impressed by the Thunder's offense through the first three games. Just in the difference in their half court approach compared to last year. 81 points for the Thunder. Big three tonight. They're trusting each other. There will obviously be much tougher series for them on the horizon, but the Thunder have the right approach here early in this postseason. They're moving the ball better than they did last year. All right, let's get Jackson up here and let's get some mailbag questions.
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Jackson
Let's do it. All right. We got a lot of questions in the chat tonight. Thank you guys for asking your questions, and please subscribe to the show. Let's start. Let's start here. If OKC makes the conference finals, what do you think their chances would be in a series against the Lakers or the Warriors?
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Jason
So the specific thing that the Lakers can do to the Thunder that has me more intrigued by them is a legitimate upset threat. And let's. Let's. Let's contextualize this entire conversation, guys, okay? Like, I would pick the Thunder to win the west right now. Okay. They are my second championship favorite behind the Celtics. We. I don't even know how I would feel if the Lakers and the Thunder showed up in a Western Conference final series. So much of that depends on, like, how do the. How does the Thunder offense look against a potential Clippers matchup in the second round? LeBron and Austin haven't been jump shooting very well this postseason. Like, are they. Do they get to the point where they shoot their jump shots better? Like, there's so many different factors that could go one way or another before the series even starts. But in theory, the dynamic that Houston has that causes the Lakers problems, the dynamic that Minnesota has that causes the Lakers problems, it's a lot of like six, six to six, eight dudes that are pretty big and strong as opposed to guys that are more like 6, 3 to 6, 5. And there's some strength advantages that they can go at there. And so as a result, like, LeBron and Luca just look a lot more comfortable against Oklahoma City's defense than they did against other defenses that were maybe not as good reputationally as the Thunder, but that are tougher matchups because they present some more physical size to be able to throw at LeBron and Luca. So it's that and then it's, you know, the Thunder do like you saw. You saw a big one late. How did Scottie Pippen get that three in the. In the right corner in crunch time? Like, it. It comes from the way the Thunder defend their forward. Aggressive. It's a lot of low man help. It's a lot of packing the paint. It's a lot of relying on closeouts. And so when you play elite playmaking talent against them, they move the ball well and they can get to those openings that the Thunder leave in their defense when they're trying to force turnovers by being forward aggressive. And so in theory, it's the two giant shot creators that are also great passers that make it work. And then on the other end of the four, it's that classic J.J. redick. We can actually like help off of some of these guys and force them to take and make jump shots against closeouts.
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Jackson
Yeah, I, I agree. I mean, I think that the, the Lou Dort thing, he's, you know, he's. He's been an annoyance to Luca in the past, but you only have one of him. It's so, it's so different having. It's why the Clippers, we talked so long about them as championship contenders when they had Paul George and Kawhi Leonard. Not that that worked out, but in theory, having two. That's why the Celtics are really tough to beat. Having 2, 6, 6, 6, 7 or even bigger in the Lakers case creators is, is just not many teams have that. And how many teams have defenders that can throw two bodies at those, at those two types of guys.
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Jason
So really quickly, I wanted to talk about this too, because we didn't have a chance. The. We had a lot of people who have opinions on the Lou Dort foul. So let's, let's discuss this for a minute. So Jackson and I talked a little bit before the stream. I. Both fouls are obviously not on purpose. I don't think Lou Dort turned around and was like, I'm taking John around out tonight. Like, I don't think that's what happened. The Dort foul to me was more of like a reckless play. The. Like you mentioned last night when we were in our mailbag, you're like a man. Thompson is crashing the offensive glass every single time. That's not exactly a super rare basketball concept. Like PJ Tucker has made a career out of that. You know, like there, there are a lot of players in the league that their job is to crash the offensive glass every single time because that's one of their big biggest pieces of utility on offense. So Russell Westbrook does for the Nuggets, for instance. Right. We were just talking about that earlier in the show. So like, to me, like, that was quite literally just a complete fluke that Amend Thompson was crashing the glass and he got tripped up and it happened. The Dort one. On the one hand it's like he's just trying to make a play, but on the other hand it's like, like every basketball player knows what, what, what it means when you're tr. When you're trailing a player and you're trying to like meet him at the basket and he throws that drop off pass to the guy right behind him. You know, it's coming it like it's almost 98% of the time going to be a high flying athlete coming right down the lane trying to dunk. And so it's like I, I'm not, it's. Dirty is the wrong word. But I did, I did think the dort play was just a little bit reckless. Did you think so, Jackson?
- [30:36]
Jackson
I did, yeah. I mean, sorry, it's allergy season. It's allergy season. I gotta, I gotta cough. Yeah, I think that it's, I do think he, his, his front foot, I forget if it's left or his right slipped a little bit as he's turning around and that's sort of what made it especially awkward because if he doesn't slip, he's jumping and there's. It's probably a very physical collision with him and Ja at the rim, but he's not undercutting his legs. Right. So I do think that's sort of the, the fluky element of it. But at the same time, to your point, it's rare in that situation when was. You see, it's so rare that that results in an actually successful block. Right. And most times you're better off getting out of the way and not giving a guy an and one. It's just, it's a little dumb or reckless or just unnecessary at minimum, to try to make a play like that at that point in the game. It's not like it's the end of the, in the fourth quarter or anything. Let, what do you, what do you, what are you trying to accomplish there? And then additionally, I do think he slipped a little bit which made it, which made the impact of it a.
- [31:39]
Jason
Little bit to your point. Like that. That sort of. There are unwritten rules in basketball that involve the exposed athlete where it's like, even if it's game point, you don't tackle a guy out of the air on a fast break. Like, even if it's game point, like if you wrap him up, you wrap him up while he's on the ground. Like that. That, that's the thing. Like if you. It's a different type of play on a drop off on a two on one. But like just imagine like a, a two on one fast break situation where it's more like both guys are in front and lose, like aware that both of them are there. Like if you're guarding the ball and the dude throws a bounce pass at the Last second. Like yeah, in theory the competitive nature would tell you make him earn it at the line. So yeah, you want to turn and you want to foul him. But like if the guy's in the air, it's, you just don't, you just don't. Because it's not, it's just an unwritten rule in basketball. You don't do that to people that are in the air. And so my thing was like, yeah, in theory he doesn't see what's happening. But like when Scotty threw that drop off pass, like if you're running behind Scotty and you see that drop off pass, you know, nine times out of 10, it's probably because he has an athlete trailing. And so just, it was just a little bit reckless. But again, neither of them would, would be what I consider dirty. Neither of them were, I'm certain that neither of them were on purpose, but it just, it just was a little reckless and it was just unfortunate.
- [33:05]
Jackson
Agreed. Another question from, from that game. Hey Jason, why don't NBA teams attack players more often when they're in foul trouble? Both SGA and Isaiah Hartenstein had five fouls in the fourth quarter and Memphis didn't attack either of them. Thanks. Love the show.
- [33:20]
Jason
It's easier said than done in the sense that like you can scram people out of mismatches, you can double team out of people out of mismatches. There were a lot of Jaren Jackson post ups that ended in double teams. But honestly like you know who, we talked about it earlier. Jaren Jackson and Scotty Pippen Jr. Are not half court surgeons. They're not going to go up the floor and be really deliberate with the way they attack. And honestly I thought Memphis just kind of decomposed entirely on, on offense. But your only matchup attacker was Jackson and like, cause Desmond Bain is not a stare you down. And ISO guy like Scotty Pippen Jr. Is not that kind of guy either. Like Jared Jackson is the only guy that's like, okay, we're on an island playing ones like I can score here. But they weren't letting him go on one one on one unless it was Caruso. So like it's, it's one of those things where I, I, it's, it's easier said than done. I don't think Memphis was really set up to do that.
- [34:13]
Jackson
It feels so easy to say. And I say the same thing, not even about specific players, but when a team gets in the bonus with eight minutes to go in a quarter or something, it's like just go downhill, just draw a foul. And it feels like it should be easy because there is so much foul grifting in the NBA. But it's not quite as simple, I don't think, as it feels like it should be.
- [34:32]
Jason
There's a psychological element too. Like when a team picks up four fouls in the first three minutes of a quarter, it probably means they've been bitching and moaning at the refs nonstop for that first three minutes. And so there's a psychological element to where that, that fifth foul, it's going to have to be a pretty substantial foul for the ref to blow the whistle, especially in the postseason. It's. It's always. It's always easier said than done done.
- [34:54]
Jackson
Like you said, I know it's early been a hypothetical. In a hypothetical Clippers vs. OKC second round series, who do you think would have the best player in the series between a healthy Kawhi and sga.
- [35:04]
Jason
That would literally be the one of the biggest swing factors in the series. Like if the Thunder were able to successfully load up on Shea, keep Don and Derek Jones on him all series and play him into an inefficient series. Like if Shea averaged 33 on 27 shots a game. Like Shay. Shay has a lot of. I mean, tonight he took like 26 shots. Shay has a lot of games where like he accumulates volume scoring, excuse me, but he takes so many twos that it's not necessarily the most efficient thing in the world. Some of the times when he gets into these games where he goes like 10 for 26. If there's a universe where Shay averages 33 points a game in the series, but he takes 26 attempts to get there every night and Kawhi averages, you know, 32 points a game, but he gets there in 17 shots every single night. And he's just like surgical all series. By the way, we talked about the size mismatches. He's going to have a boatload of size mismatches in that series. The biggest fear that I would have is as you start to kind of like dig down through the ways that the Clippers attack, they are going to be able to use Zoo on the offensive glass. They're going to be able to use Zoo out of the post. But OKC is going to double the shit out of Kawhi and Zoo on all of their post ups. They're not going to let those guys sit one on one. Kawhi did it. Had a much better passing game tonight than he did in the first two games of the series. But like Kawhi Leonard can struggle to handle double teams from time to time. Zoo as well. So. And then with James Harden you're just going up an entire stratosphere of quality of perimeter defense talent on James Harden. Like this is a series for James Harden that really lines up well for, for him from a matchup perspective. Like a high drop team with a big that sometimes gets lazy and doesn't get up to the level. Like that is suicide against James Harden because it's got all the baked in reads that he's all naturally great at, right. And, and to James's credit, he just has his three point shot going in this postseason which has been huge. But like okay, OKC just has so many different options they could go to. They could switch all the James Harden pick and rolls double Zoo out of the post, double Kawhi at all his post ops and basically I, I don't know if you've seen this Jackson, but like there have been times when the Thunder and the Nuggets are in or excuse me, the Clippers and the Nuggets are in more of like a dog fight where you can really see the Clippers lack of playmaking talent. Where like you'll see, you'll just see a guy a split second late on a read or like Zoo will make the wrong read, they'll force a pass to a cutter that's not there when someone's open in the corner. Something along those lines. There's definitely a little bit of a playmaking deficit sometimes with the Clippers that I think the Thunder would take advantage of. So like the Clippers are really good and they have advantages, but I think the Thunder are kind of built defensively to attack their lack of playmaking.
- [37:53]
Jackson
Yeah. And we have talked on the show, especially this past week and last night about the concept of secondary playmaking and the roles that Jimmy Butler and Brandon Pajinski play for the Warriors. And the Clippers have none of those guys. All of, all of their guys after James Harden are good at a lot of things offensively, but none of them are good at making that. I mean Zoo is okay at it in that short role. He's gotten a lot better. But they don't have any high level secondary playmakers. Norman Powell, Kawhi Leonard, Zhu, Derrick Jones, Krista, like these guys are all probably better off trying to score than trying to play make for other people. Even, even in an I.
- [38:32]
Jason
This is an let's, let's take it in this direction. My gut tells me that the Nuggets have a better chance to beat the Thunder than the Clippers do. Do you agree?
- [38:43]
Jackson
I don't know. It's a tough one. I think so. I think so. Just because I feel like Zhu is such a superior Jokic defender than either of the bigs the Thunder have, despite those guys being, you know, very skilled defensively. He is just such a matchup problem in a different type of stratosphere as a defender for jokers that those guys are. So because of that, I would. I tend to agree.
- [39:06]
Jason
And there's a swarming that they could do with Jokic that you can't do with Zoo. Like, if you swarm Zoo, he can. Like, that's just not a good use of defensive resources in that matchup. So he could do more damage on the offensive glass. Like, there are definitely advantages that the Clippers have in that series. My main thing is. I just think that I. I think that the Nuggets can consistently score against the Thunder. That's the main thing. They had a game they won this year where they scored 124 points again against them. They had a game this year where they scored 140 points against them and they won. And so, yeah, so like, like there is a. There is a. That. That's a team that has a great amount of connective playmaking and that is on a string with all of their cuts and their relocations and. And they get guys into positions where they can be a threat. And like, obviously the Thunder would have a bunch of advantages in that series too. But I, yeah, I. I would be. I would be hard pressed to take the Clippers instead of the Nuggets in a series against the Thunder. I think the Nuggets present more problems for them.
- [40:07]
Jackson
Yeah, I think that's fair.
- [40:11]
Jason
The 40s and free agents podcast with Daniel Jeremiah and Greg Rosenthal has proposed prepared you for the 2025 NFL Draft.
- [40:19]
Jackson
We've told you what last year's playoff teams need to return to the postseason.
- [40:22]
Jason
And how teams with new coaches should approach the draft.
- [40:25]
Jackson
So as draft season comes to a close, we've got you covered before your favorite team goes on the clock. We'll break it all down once all 257 picks have been made.
- [40:34]
Jason
Listen to the 40s and free agents podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [40:43]
Jackson
Let's move slightly away from that the OKC Thunder for a second. If Jimmy Butler misses significant time there was reporting today that he avoided any structural damage. He has a deep bruise essentially and he has been officially listed as questionable for their. Their next game. But if I would imagine he plays, I think considering it's Jimmy Butler, but if he's able, if he misses a game or two or three, just, you know, it's hard to say at this point how many games he might miss. How does that change your calculus of the series?
- [41:13]
Jason
The fact that Golden State is going home, I think, is a huge advantage here. I think that. I think when Golden State really defends, the Rockets can't score on him. That's not exactly a big shock. All you have to do is ask Steve her that. That's literally the ideology within the locker room. We have seen what this warriors team can do at home. They can ride the wave of their crowd to an insane defensive effort, and they don't need Jimmy to guard the Rockets. And they can do enough stuff defense to transition role players, shoot better at home. They'll cliche. All that stuff, I think would put them in a situation where if Jimmy had to miss both games, I feel like there's a strong chance the warriors still split at least and maybe win them both anyway. So, like, not having any sort of bone, bone issue, bruise break, and heading home, I think under the circumstances for what was an incredibly fluky, incredibly scary play, this is like, literally the best case scenario for how it could have gone.
- [42:14]
Jackson
Yeah, I. I agree. I think. I don't know about getting two games without Jimmy, but I think a split would definitely be on the table if that happens. And frankly, I would bet he plays. It's. I would bet he plays. Considering the mental of that guy, I would bet that he plays.
- [42:32]
Jason
I was thinking the same thing earlier today, because I do think the warriors have an appropriate fear of Houston. What I mean by that is, like, I think they know Houston, like, can still win this series and you know how it is with these physical teams. Like. Like the Nuggets won three straight games against Minnesota last year. Jokic puts on the performance of his life in game five and just fries Go Bear for the world to see. And then they lose two in a row because Minnesota just physically overwhelms them. Even when it was like, like you, they were up 20 in game seven and let go of the rope for a few minutes, and all of a sudden they were in a dogfight and they lost the series. So, like, I think. I think the urgency of Golden State thinking that them going up 3:1 is almost a must, like, that's a must for them will probably push Jimmy towards play.
- [43:30]
Jackson
Another question from this series. Hey, Jason, can you explain how Steph fights off defenders so well? The Rockets have been obviously very physical with him and even though it's slightly bothered him, it hasn't stopped him, quote, unquote.
- [43:40]
Jason
Yeah, so this is, this is interesting. This has been one of the, this was the difference. I was trying to draw last night when we were talking about officiating. Like, I do believe that Steph gets his shitty whistle when he's shooting like the. You can't be like fouling jump shooters. Like, that's. The jump shot is such a low margin for error thing where like if someone just barely tapped you on the forearm with their index finger on your release, it could cause you to miss by two feet. So like, like, you like fouling jump fouling on jump shots like Steph, there's way too many of those where he's getting clipped and he's getting pulled and he's getting grabbed and he's getting ran over and they're not getting called. But watch any player in the NBA who functions off ball fight for position. Just because Steph is a guard doesn't mean that he doesn't have to deal with physicality off the ball. Have you seen like Palonchero fight for post position? Have you seen Jayson Tatum fight for post position? Have you seen Jokic fight for post position? Have you seen Kawhi Leonard fight for post position? Have you seen LeBron fight for post position? It's a fucking battle down there. Everyone's grabbing and holding its swim moves. It's like it's all physical leverage. And so Steph, by playing off the ball, has put himself into a situation where he is susceptible to a lot of that off ball contact. But like we talked about last night, it's. That is actually an arrangement that works in their favor. And what I mean by that is like, Steph has gotten really, really good at using simple fakes to shed guys in backdoor cuts. He'll just shove a guy to get separation to run off of a screen. Which by the way, like, to me, that's legal, you know. I know you want to know why it's legal? Because it's legal for them to put their hands on Steph when he's trying to move without the ball. It's a given a take, right? Like, it's the same reason why I've never had a problem with the whistle that LeBron got. LeBron's trying to drop that shoulder. And if you watch every LeBron left handed drive ever, he's using that right arm like A battering ram, just like swinging guys out of the way like, so guess what? If LeBron's going to do that, there's got to be contact allowed on the other side of it. But it's all about weaponizing that to your effect. And the warriors just do it through an incredible amount of attention to detail in their screen game. The screens that flow into the screens with their bigs, the seals that they use on their screens, the all the off ball deception that Steph can use. The given goes like, Steph just uses all of that to his advantage in a way that allows him to generate offense without having to face ball pressure. And that's the other thing too. Like a lot of people go like, hey guys, why isn't Steph just running high pick and roll? And it's like Steph will run high pick and roll from time to time. It's not that he doesn't do it, but high pick and roll puts you susceptible to ball pressure. And ball pressure is exhausting in a different way. When you're off ball, dealing with pressure, you can use your hands so you can swim, move off of guys, you can use both hands to push, you can do all this kind of stuff to fight for position, jockey for position. When you're dribbling totally different ball game, you need those hands available to dribble the basketball. And so ball pressure can be difficult in a different way. And I think, I think Steve Kerr and the group just wants to try to avoid, you know, literally Amend Thompson turning Steph seven times before he gets up to the, up to the spot where he can run a ball screen.
- [46:50]
Jackson
And frankly, I think size and physicality is, it even amplifies that to a degree. Like it's a lot easier to separate from a 6, 7 athletic wing when you were able to run around and put two hands on him. But when you're on the ball, it's, it's not the same. Like I, I, I think it's going up against a defender like Gary Payton, for example, as opposed to a defender like Ahmed Thompson. It's gonna both amazing. Defenders off the ball versus on the ball is gonna feel completely differently because you are able to grapple with one, but not, but not in one situation, but not the other.
- [47:23]
Jason
Yeah, it's fundamentally different. Like just this is not even a playoff thing. Just in the regular season. Next year, every team in the NBA runs horn sets. Watch the dudes at the elbows fighting for position. That's the same thing that's happening to Steph when he's off ball. It's the same thing that is off ball. Jockeying for position. That's literally what basketball is.
- [47:42]
Jackson
All right, we'll take a couple more. Do you still believe Milwaukee has a chance and what can they do differently to flip the series?
- [47:49]
Jason
They absolutely. They absolutely have a chance. Because it's very easy to gain momentum over the course of a series. As you figure out things that work and you identify things that don't work and you cut them out, they could get a big win at home. Riding that energy, get a couple guys in rhythm that weren't in rhythm earlier. Bill Dames conditioning, build Dame's rhythm, all of that. My main concern is, we said before the series, would Doc Rivers be able to manage this whole situation? And like, if brook Lopez plays 30 minutes in game three or 25 minutes in game three, that's 25 minutes where the Pacers just get great shots every single time down the fourth. Is he gonna identify stuff like the dumb low man sequences that were giving up wide open threes and crunch time in game two? Like, there's just a lot of, like, basic game plan and rotation stuff. Like AJ Green all year long. It reminds me of like, back in the past with like Darvin Ham with like Rui Hachimura versus Taurean Prince, or like, even Frank Vogel with like an Austin Reeves instead of Avery Bradley, where, like, there's just clear data that shows that the Bucks are better when A.J. green's on the floor. Like, he's good. He can knock down threes. And the big thing is it's his off ball defense. He's like, always in the right spots. Like, he'll get attacked. Like, it'll be like, I could just see it in Doc River's face. It's like, oh, Pascal Siakam went at AJ Green and hit another bank shot. I got to get him out of the game. And it's like, is Gary Trent locking these dudes up? Like, it, like, is Bobby Portis, Tori, like Taurian Prince? Like, like, he. They cut his minutes in game two. But like, Torian Prince is another one of those guys where it's like, if. If he's not hitting his threes, like, you gotta lean into AJ Green. I would le. I would be running out there a lot of groups that are like Giannis with Kuzma and Portis where they're switching everything and it's like Gary, Trent Dame or AJ Green. Just two of those three. And I've run a lot off of Giannis in the post. He's Getting double teamed. He's passing out of it well and just surround him with shooting and just try to lean on the fact that you're not going to give up as many of the easy openings from attacking Lopez, from transition pushes and stuff because you have some more disciplined defenders on the floor. Like, I just, I just am concerned about whether or not Doc's going to do the right things when they get back home.
- [50:07]
Jackson
Last one. Where does Jokic rank among the best passers you've seen?
- [50:11]
Jason
Oh, that's a good question. I've always said that there is a level of playmaking talent that is just. You're born with. It's not something that you can develop through repetition. Like, you see guys like Tatum or like Katie or Brandon Ingram, guys over the years that like, developed into decent passers, but they're not like surgical half court playmakers. And it's just a rare breed. And I, I think that Luka and Jokic both are two of the very best that I've ever seen. They remind me of LeBron. LeBron, though, like, as good as LeBron was as a passer and he was amazing. There was just that next. There was a lot of LeBron's passing ability that was predicated on like his transition athleticism and just his rim pressure. And he was particularly great at spraying out to shooters. And I feel like there's a little bit more dynamic like, like tight window playmaking that you see from guys like Jokic. And in Luca involving like, lob passing, like, I never thought LeBron, I want to cut him some slack for the Anthony Davis relationship because he would just end up getting that screen switched a lot of the times, which would shut down a lot of the lobs that were available. But I never thought LeBron was as good as like a lob passer as Jokic or Luka. They're both very different. But I would say I don't know that I've seen a player that passed the ball better than Jokic personally. There's a bunch of guys on that tier. That's maybe a question for the summer in terms of like actually putting like kind of nailing down a ranking.
- [51:51]
Jackson
Yeah, I think there's the Jokic playmaking thing because there's a. There's a couple elements to this question. I feel like the physical ability to make the widest variety of types of passes possible, And I think LeBron is at the top of that list. I mean, Jokic has more size, so maybe you give him an advantage there. But LeBron can make pretty much any pass he wants to make. And then you combine with the floor understanding and vision and all of those things, which is where I think Jokic and Luka just have a slight edge over LeBron, in my opinion.
- [52:22]
Jason
Yeah, they're just, I, I, this is, we are splitting hairs between the greatest passers in the history of the game. And like my favorite LeBron moment as a passer was the Indiana pacers comeback in 2017 in game three after they were already up two zero and Ty Lou benched Kyrie and Kevin Love. And LeBron led this comeback with like Shannon Fry and, and Richard Jefferson. And there was a play where Iman Shumpert stripped Paul George on a right shoulder, fade around the left elbow, and it led to a fast break and LeBron was just going right down the middle of the floor. And I literally watched George Hill, who was in between LeBron and the rim. I watched George Hill vacate the lane to run to the corner to cover a three point shooter because he was terrified of LeBron making the pass. And LeBron just went down and dunked it like jackhammer smash. Like LeBron. His, the, the. I feel like people have almost forgotten how good of a passer he is, just simply because at this phase in his career, he doesn't create as much advantage as he used to. Is that all we got for tonight? All right, that's all we have for tonight, guys. We are not going to do a film session tomorrow. I'm not sure if you can tell just by watching this show, but I am like completely exhausted and I'm in desperate need of some sleep. So I'm going to be sleeping in tomorrow and getting a little bit caught up on that front. We have a jam packed weekend ahead of us with the Friday night slate we have. But Lakers, Wolves last tomorrow night, game three. Then we have four games on Saturday, four games on Sunday. So no film session tomorrow. I'll see you guys live on YouTube after the final Brothers are of the Lakers game. And just last note, if you guys are into Star wars or if you're watching and or head over to My other podcast, Two Sons podcast, we recorded a, you know, 35 minute or so episode where we just kind of broke down the first three episodes with my buddy Luke. So make sure you guys head over there again. Appreciate you guys for supporting us and supporting the show. We will see you tomorrow night. What's up guys? As always, I appreciate you for listening to and supporting hoops tonight. They would actually be really helpful for us if you guys would take a second and leave a rating and a review. As always, I appreciate you guys supporting us. If you could take a minute to do that, I'd really appreciate it. The volume the 40s and free agents podcast with Daniel Jarrah, Maya and Greg Rosenthal has prepared you for the 2025 NFL Draft.
- [54:45]
Jackson
We've told you what last year's playoff teams need to return to the postseason.
- [54:49]
Jason
And how teams with new coaches should approach the draft.
- [54:52]
Jackson
So as draft season comes to a close, we've got you covered. Before your favorite team goes on the clock, we'll break it all down. Once all 257 picks have been made.
- [55:00]
Jason
Listen to the 40s and free agents podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.