← The Herd with Colin Cowherd
The Herd with Colin Cowherd
Hoops Tonight - LIVE: Pacers-Knicks Reaction: Tyrese Haliburton BALLS OUT in Game 4 win vs. Jalen Brunson & KAT
00:37:45
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You will never be able to change or grow through the thing that you refuse to identify, the thing that you refuse to say. Hey, this is my moun. This is the struggle.
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Listen to Made for this mountain on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
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Why is a soap opera Western like Yellowstone so wildly successful? The American west with Dan Flores is the latest show from the Meat Eater Podcast Network. So join me starting Tuesday, May 6th where we'll delve into stories of the west and come to understand the how it helps inform the ways in which we experience the region today.
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The Volume.
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The NBA Finals are almost here and every play could be the one that changes everything. This is the NBA Playoffs, where heroes rise, legacies are built and the action never lets up. And with DraftKings Sportsbook, an official sports betting partner of the NBA, you don't just watch the madness, you live it back. Your favorite team ride with your clutch time killer, bet on the buzzer beaters, the breakout performances, the game winning threes. From player props to same game parlays, this is how you take your fandom to the next level. The New York Knicks, after beating the Celtics, are up to plus360 as the second best odds to win the title. Surprisingly, the pacers back at plus 600. Because my initial thought on that series is I want to pick the Pacers, but some interesting championship odds right now. New to the game. No Sweat. Download the DraftKings Sportsbook app. Bet just $5 and if your bet wins, you'll score $300 in bonus bets. It's that easy. Download the DraftKings Sportsbook App and use code HOOPS. That's code HOOPS H O O P S for new customers to get $300 in bonus bets. If your bet wins when you bet just five bucks only on DraftKings, the crown is yours. Gambling problem. Call 1-800- gambler in New York. Call 8778-HOPENY or text hopeny to 467-369 in Connecticut. Help is available for problem gambling. Call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org Please play responsibly on behalf of Boot Hill Casino and Resort in Kansas. 21 plus. Age and eligibility varies by jurisdiction. Void in Ontario. Bet must win to receive reward. Bonus bets expire 168 hours after issuance. For additional terms and responsible gaming resources, see DKNG co Audio. All right, welcome to Hoops Tonight here at the Volume. Happy Tuesday, everybody. Hope all of you guys are having a great start to your week. While the Indiana Pacers, as expected, ended up going up 31 on the Knicks tonight, kind of a wire to wire type of game. There's a brief Knicks push early, a little bit of a tempting push from the Knicks late, but the Pacers consistently demonstrated themselves to be the better team tonight as they have for the majority of this series. We're going to break that game down from the perspective of both teams who we're gonna talk. Jackson has a theory that he's higher on the Indiana Pacers and their chances against Oklahoma City than I am. So I thought that would make fun grounds for debate. So we'll have a little debate in the middle section of the show as we talk about a potential NBA Finals matchup between the Pacers and the Thunder. And then at the tail end of the show, we'll take five, ten minutes of questions. Any big picture questions you guys have regarding either series, we can get to them at that point. And then when we wrap up here tonight, we'll be heading over to Playback again. That's Playback TV hoops tonight. We take callers, we watch film. It's informal. We just have fun. We just talk hoops. It's a fun little community we're building over there, so make sure you guys follow us over there when we finish up tonight. You guys know the drill before we get started, subscribe to the Hoops Tonight YouTube channel so you don't miss any more any more of our videos. Follow me on Twitter at_jason lt so you guys don't miss show announcements. Don't forget about our podcast feed wherever. Get your podcast on our Hoops Tonight. It's also super helpful if you leave your rating in a review. On that front, Jackson's doing great work on our social media feeds on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook and Tik Tok. Make sure you guys follow us there. And last but not least, keep dropping mailbag questions in the chat so that we can get to them at the tail end of the show tonight. All right, let's talk some basketball. So one of the things to credit to Knicks, one of the things that they did at the end of Game three, which I have not seen often in this postseason run aside from Game three, ironically of the Cav series where Max Drew started, you know, he had been the Cavs had been in intentionally denying Tyrese Halliburton throughout the series, but Streuss just did a way better job of it in Game three, and it kind of just threw the Pacers out of whack and they had a really weird night. But for the most part there's like a pace and an energy and a flow to Indiana's offense that is pretty consistent. Like one of the biggest theories that I leaned on in terms of me picking Indiana to beat the Knicks, I wasn't sure necessarily which team had the higher ceiling, like when things were really going well for either team. It kind of felt coin flippy to me, but I just trusted the Pacers to more frequently be at their best than I trusted the Knicks team. And that made it a relatively easy pick for me relative to some of the other more, you know, kind of confusing series that we've seen in this postseason run. But to the Knicks credit, in Game three, in that fourth quarter, we saw a Pacers offense that didn't look like the Pacers offense as the ball wasn't moving around. They're they lacked that pace and flow in transition. Kind of turned into some iffy isolation possessions and it just kind of felt like they lost their character a little bit. And Tyrese Haliburton had zero interest in letting that phenomenon extend into the start of Game four. Immediately coming out the gates, bringing that energy, bringing that flow, I thought Stan Van Gundy had an interesting point in the broadcast, talking about how the point guard is the guy that really pushes his team to run, not necessarily the coach. Now, I don't necessarily agree with that assertion because we've seen coaches make teams run more. I mean, frankly, this year, just Kenny Atkinson and what he did with the Cavs got them to run more than they did in years past. But I do think it's a combination of both. And I think the way I would kind of like, tweak that take from Stane Van Gundy is I would say your point guard can supersede, or I would even say your point guard, your superstar, your foundational offensive fulcrum can overcome any sort of coaching roster circumstance and get guys to run and get guys to take on their identity as an offensive player. That's why over the years, we saw so many different types of players thrive alongside Steph Curry. So many different types of players like we've seen now in recent years, guys like, guys that weren't on older versions of the Nuggets, guys like Peyton Watson, guys like Christian Brown, guys like Russell Westbrook that have thrived with him and with LeBron James. Just every single guy who can knock down a catch and shoot jump shot and is smart, knows how to be in the right place. They. Those guys just seem to fit with LeBron and do it well. I think that you can have an offensive fulcrum that can kind of inject life into an offense, irrespective of your coach. And I thought, you know, Tyrus Halliburton, in many ways, is the identity of this Pacers team. And even going back to some of the stretches in last year's postseason when they looked bad, a lot of it had to center around Halliburton kind of just going passive for various reasons. Whether it was, you know, obviously he wasn't the same athlete last year that he was this year because of his hamstring injury. But similarly, the instances of ball denial that we've seen that have taken him in his kind of, like, flow out of games and how. How it can impact the Pacers. But at this phase of his career, he's far more consistently engaged. He's far more consistently bringing that, you know, kind of, like, assertion on the offensive end. And those stretches have been few and far between. Like, when we watched the Pacers at the end of Game three, that was weird. That was unusual for a team that has consistently been firing on all cylinders in this postseason run. Similarly, in that Cavs game, it's like, oh, that's really weird. Well, they came out in game four and hung 80 points in the first half. So there's just like a relentless kind of identity to this basketball team. And I do think it stems from Halliburton. I do think he's the driving force, generally speaking, these kinds of players. Speaking back to Tyrese Haliburton and his pushback against him being the most over overrated player in the league, I generally think that advantage creators are underrated in the NBA. Yes, I'm saying even guys like Steph, Even guys like LeBron, even guys like Nicola Jokic outside of their fan bases, there's a reason why those fan bases scream about it all the time. There's a reason why Denver fans are constantly trying to tell you about Jokic and what he does. There's a reason why Steph fans are doing that with Steph. There's a reason why LeBron fans are doing that with LeBron. There's a reason why Luka fans are doing that with Luka. Because flat out, when you have an offensive player that can create advantages, putting your role players in a situation where instead of facing a set defender, they have someone sprinting at them or they're operating in an opening, every player in the NBA becomes like four times as good as they are when they don't get to operate within an advantage. It is arguably the most important trait that any basketball player can bring to the table. It is why I have always been drawn to offensive engines more than I've been drawn to like kind of the stereotypical two way score type of player, the type of player that can consistently set his teammates up with advantages is going to make life easier in every phase of the game. And Tyrese is just one of the best at it. Even when we looked at the down, down the stretch part of this game, like there's a. When the Knicks made that run and they cut it down to, I think they got it down as close as five. If I remember correctly, before Siakam hits a three in the right corner is like four or five points, something like that. All it is is like Halliburton brings ball to floor with pace, Nemhard comes into a guard, guard screen slips out of it, and two people linger on the ball on Halliburton for just a split second. Halliburton just pitches it over the top. And when Nemhard catches it, the guy closing out on him is closing out behind his right shoulder. And so he's like, oh shit, I got a driving lane. And so he just goes down into the lane. And as he's going down in the lane, OG an Adobe has no choice but to step over. He's the low man, so he's the guy that has to step over and be at help. Easy extra pass to Pascal Siakam in the right corner knocks down the three. That ends up being a monstrously important shot in this game. 0 mention of that in the box score. That's an a Nemhard assist and a Siakam catch and shoot three. There is no mention of that in the box score for Tyrese Halliburton. Advantage creators are vastly underrated because if you look at the box score, it's not going to account for the simple fact that they lean the defense towards them in various in each player has done it in a different way. Halliburton does it different than Jokic. Jokic does it different than Steph. Steph does it different than Luka or LeBron in the past. These guys all do it in different ways. But it more or less manifests in advantage creation. The Tyrese Halliburton layup that he had down the stretch right after the Siakam 3, they just ran a guard guard screen and the guard lingered too long and it blew the play up and, and led to a wide open three for Siakam. So what happens on the very next guard guard screen? Brunson throws a half hearted hedge because he's hesitant to leave his shooter and Halliburton just turns the corner. What's the advantage there? The advantage is the guy who's guarding him has to get through a screen with no help. And he's just, he's going to have a hard time keeping in front of a fast guard like Tyrese Halliburton. Like that. But that is a reward for the fact that Tyrese Halliburton so religiously makes those reads over and over and over again. And it kind of manifests in the identity of this roster. Even the Miles Turner foul, where he draws the foul late. It wasn't even a Halliburton action, it was an Andrew Nemhardt action. But they, they he comes off the screen, Carl Anthony Towns has to step up to contest. As a result, Miles Turner is diving to the basket with Mikhail Bridges trying to box him out. And so even though Siakam doesn't get the rebound, he just kind of taps at it. It leaves a situation where all of a sudden this skinny six seven dude is trying to deal with the starting center for the Indiana Pacers and he's just going to go get an offensive rebound. Advantage creation is a thing that doesn't manifest in the box score. In that case, Andrew Nemhard coming off of a screen that doesn't show as an assist, if any, it shows as a missed field goal. It like is a negative thing on his box score. But because he came off of that action with pace, because he set his man up for the screen and got separation, he was able to force a switch that led to a different kind of advantage. Miles Turner inside position against a skinny small, Mikhail Bridges key play in the game, he gets to the foul line. Advantage creation is underrated and I think, I think we don't talk about it nearly enough. And there's a reason why that type of player is the type of player that I find myself gravitating towards. And with Tyres Halbert, you know, like he's kind of another one of those guys similar to Jason Tatum where like there's kind of two versions of him on any given night. There's like the star version of him and then there's like the superstar version of him. And similarly with Tatum, the superstar version of Tyrese Halliburton comes from when the jump shot is going in. When, when he's being aggressive as a scorer, he impacts the game at a level as high as the very best players in the NBA. Now his floor is high. His advantage creation is such a valuable tool that he can be the 8th or 9th best player in the league averaging 18 points and 9 assists. Right? That's a pretty innocuous box score. Now again that box scores underrating the impact that he brings. But that is still a star level player with a stat line more in line with what you see from the 40, 45th best player in the league. Right? That's the advantage creation piece. That's the floor for Tyrese Halliburton when he brings the shooting, when he's knocking down those threes coming off of ball screens, when he's knocking down those mid range pull ups, coming off of ball screens, when he's taking Miles Turner or excuse me, when he's taking Carl Anthony Towns or Mitchell Robinson out on a switch and hitting a three in their face, or Jalen Brunson and hitting a three in his face. That switch beating that is the top end of him as a scorer. And when he does all of that stuff, they react to his shooting which gets him the driving lanes. That's when he starts getting into the basket. And he's actually like a pretty good downhill athlete. Him and TJ McConnell kind of remind me of each other in that sense where they are just constantly playing downhill. And so even though they may not be the first step athletes that you see, like Anthony Edwards, they are athletes that generate advantage with pace, they keep moving all the time and they capitalize on the defense, letting go of the rope in that perpetual motion that they bring to the table. But awesome night from Tyrese Haliburton. Just, just one of those iconic performances in his career. 32 points, 12 rebounds, 15 assists. And here's the thing, doesn't turn the damn basketball over. He's less than two turnovers per game in this entire postseason run. I think he has 27 turnovers in 14 games like that. Is not only is that going to be vitally important for a potential Oklahoma City Thunder series, which we're about to debate with Jackson here in a few minutes, that is just preposterous considering the usage, the types of difficult passes that he's making. There's like these jump passes, these double pump passes. He had this pass where he got caught in between reads and, and like at the last second, like he like looked at Miles Turner on a roll, decided not to pass to him, looked over to the side, then looked back to Turner and like floated a perfect pass against a three quarter front that just barely got over the defender's fingers fingertips and just fed Miles Turner in for a layup. And it was like all while he was in midair. It was just an unbelievable pass. Like the kinds of difficult skip passes, swing passes, the kinds of off the dribble passes that he throws to not turn the basketball over is truly remarkable. And you know, if you, if you haven't been exposed to Tyrese Halliburton and what he's capable of, and I don't know how you wouldn't be, he's hit what, two or three game winners in this postseason or you know, the. Obviously the Knicks game wasn't a game winner, but a shot that effectively put them in position to win the game. He's been between the in season tournament run that he had last year, even the conference finals run last year, which didn't really showcase his high end scoring as often as it could have been, but it showcased a lot of what his playmaking talent is. This is, this was a crash course for anybody who hasn't really been around the Pacers to understand just how gifted a, a ceiling Tyrese Halliburton has. Aaron Neesmith, I want to talk about a couple other Pacers and then we'll talk a little bit, big picture on the series and then we'll get to Jackson in our NBA Finals preview. So I thought Aaron Neesmith, you know, this is the wear and tear impact that he brings to the table with his ball pressure. There have been stretches in this series where Brunson has scored on him and made it look easy, right? There are even a couple possessions tonight where he scored on him and made it look easy. But he's a big, strong, physical point of attack defender that never stops coming at you, never stops picking you up. Full court, never start like, you know, we've talked a lot about body angles with respect to Jaden McDaniels in the Shay Gildas Alexander matchup and kind of like opening up his stance and like creating these easy driving lanes. You watched niece Smith, he is squared up with Brunson every time. He's like, you're not going to get an easy drive. You're going to have to shake me. You're going to have to get way off to, you're going to have to go way around me or you're going to have to break me down with the move because I'm squared up and I'm right in your chest and I'm right in your face the entire time flying over screens and refusing to give up those switches. In that fourth quarter, Brunson was like, like a non factor offensively as they leaned on those crazy running catch and shoot Mikhail Bridges threes which haven't gone in all postseason outside of a handful of times. I don't understand why that was such a high volume option for the Knicks late like there, there, there was a lack of assertion, a lack of aggression from Brunson that I would credit Aaron Neesmith with. I think he, I think he's worn Brunson down over the course of the series and for the first time in this entire postseason, to my, to my recollection, we had a crunch time period where Jalen Brunson was a non factor or at least not a factor in a good way. And so I just wanted to credit Aaron NE Smith for his defense. Ben Matheran, we've talked about Ben Matheran a lot over the course of this postseason run as being one of the more high volume scorers for Indiana relative to the minutes that he plays. And he's had a rough series. But like one of the things I talked about before the series is like he doesn't put up, you know, massive box score numbers per se, but on a per minute basis coming into the series, he Was the highest scorer for the Pacers per 36 coming into the to the Eastern Conference finals in just 12 minutes of play tonight. 20 points. With his downhill athleticism as a slasher, as a cutter, as a transition threat, as an offensive rebounder, crasher. Like there were offensive rebounds that he, that he didn't even get but that he caused just by virtue of being a wrecking ball flying downhill into the lane. He was profoundly impactful in this game. It kind of probably was a little bit of a palate cleanser for him after what was a rough series up to this point. The Knicks have the ability to play well in this matchup. I was thinking about it during that first half run when they rotate and they keep Indiana in front of and they chase him off the three point line and they force them to play one on one. More often than not. They can have moments where they control the series because Brunson and Cat are like better one on one players. They're, they're, they're better at just like breaking down the defense when the defense is rotated and loaded up right. Like when they, when they, when there isn't that easy opening. And so you'll see these stretches where it's like, oh man, the Knicks got three, four stops in a row and it's like two Brunson floaters and a cat driving and one and. Or draws a double team that gets swung around and all of a sudden you're like, man, the Knicks are moving a little bit. But again, they just cannot sustain that at any point in this series, not in any real way. It's like they'll have these quarters and bursts and by the way, that's what it was like in the Celtics series. It was like short bursts of greatness that put them over the top. Same thing in the Pistons series. There were two games in that series where the Pistons had control in the fourth quarter and lost it because of a Knicks burst. Like they're, they're burst their ceiling, as I mentioned at off the top of the show, you could argue the Knicks ceiling is every bit as high as the Pacers. Maybe even higher depending on who you ask. Right. But like it doesn't matter if you can't sustain. And the Indiana Pacers play like the Pacers far more than the Knicks play like the best version of themselves way too often tonight. Just not picking up the ball in transition, Giving up an easy swing pass in transition for a three bad floor balance leading to a leak out one on one opportunity where Siakam's just Just, you know, laying one or two counter moves against a backpedaling defender and getting an easy layup or botching coverages. There was like a stretch at the beginning of the game where the Pacers just had to run a three man action of any kind. Whether it was like a stack pick and roll or a wedge pick and roll or something along those lines and, or double drag. And just like whatever they did, it just. There was a dude wide open at the three point line. Whether it was the ball handler, cause no one picked him up, or they switched the ball handler but left one of the screeners slipping. Like the attention to detail on defense all season long for the Knicks wasn't there. And when they needed it to be there for them in this postseason run, it wasn't there. And ultimately, if you're going to win in the postseason at the highest level, you've got to be a more disciplined and detail oriented defense. The Knicks weren't. And that's going to be the thing that stands in the way this year. The series is over because the Knicks need to win three games in a row and the Pacers are just flatly a better basketball team. Like, there's no, there's no bit of information we've received at any point this season that would lead me to believe that the Knicks could sustain the level they need to sustain to beat the Pacers three times in a row. I'd only give them about a 30% chance to win Game 5. That's a good chance. I wouldn't be surprised necessarily if the Knicks won in Game 5. But the problem is, historically my experience, teams that seem to lack belief in their ability to actually win, like if they don't actually think they can go on the road and win, then they'll end up punting. Because why in just emotionally, mentally, involuntarily punting it, not, not, not quitting, but just there's a natural. Like, do we really want to like grind out this big game five so that we can go back to India and get our ass kicked? You know, there's like a little bit of, there's a little bit of that kind of natural. Oh man, like we can't actually beat these guys. I've seen it a few times in this postseason where you just see a team that just like, they feel like they blew their chance to win the series. And yeah, they have their home game with a chance to extend the series, but what's the point, you know? So again, we're going to find out about the Knicks and their basketball character. If they win in game five, it'll tell us a lot about whether or not they want to go home or if they want to, you know, go on vacation, if they want to go on vacation or if they want to try to win this thing. And and I give them certainly a chance. But my guess right now is that the Pacers close this out in five. I think the Knicks have had their motivation sapped after what was a disappointing end to this particular game.
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Vice Sports Host
Blending Vice's signature dynamic storytelling with the high octane world of sports, Vice Sports brings an exciting and diverse range of programming that goes beyond the game. From action packed live events to gripping behind the scenes documentaries to hard hitting investigative pieces and in depth production profiles of athletes, coaches, teams, Vice Sports captures the raw energy, drama and passion that makes sports truly unforgettable. Catch live events and other exclusive sports programs Only on Vice TV. Go to Vicetv.com to find your cable channel.
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Mental Health Podcast Host
Made for this Mountain is a podcast that exists to empower listeners to rise above their struggles, break free from the chains of trauma and and silence the negative voices that have kept them small. Through raw conversations, real stories and actionable guidance, you can learn to face the mountain that is in front of you.
- [26:07]
Mental Health Podcast Guest
You will never be able to change or grow through the thing that you refuse to identify. The thing that you refuse to say. Hey, this is my mountain. This is the struggle. This is the thing that's in front of me. You can't make that mountain move without actually diving into that.
- [26:19]
Mental Health Podcast Host
May is Mental Health Awareness Month, a time to conquer the things that once felt impossible and step boldly into the best version of yourself. To awaken the unstoppable strength that's inside of us all. So tune into the podcast, focus on your emotional well being and climb your personal mountain.
- [26:35]
Mental Health Podcast Guest
Because it's impossible for you to be the most authentic you. It's impossible for you to love you fully if all you're doing is living to please people. Your mountain is that.
- [26:44]
Mental Health Podcast Host
Listen to Made for this mountain on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [26:50]
Dr. J
And it's going to take us to heal us.
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The Volume Host
It's Mental Health Awareness Month and on a recent episode of just heal with Dr. J, the incomparable Taraji P. Henson stopped by to discuss how she's discovered peace on her journey. So what I'm hearing you saying is healing is a part of us also reconnecting to our childhood in some sort.
- [27:11]
Dr. J
You said I look how youthful I look because I never let that little girl inside of me die. I go outside and run outside with the dogs. I still play like a kid. I laugh, you know, I love jokes. I love funny. I love laughing. I laugh at myself. I don't take myself too seriously. That's the stuff that keeps you young and stops you from being so hard to hear.
- [27:33]
The Volume Host
This and more things on the journey of healing. You can listen to just heal with Dr. J from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast at.
- [27:47]
Dr. J
And T Connecting Changes everything.
- [27:52]
Dan Flores
The American west with Dan Flores is the latest show from the Meat Eater Podcast Network. Hosted by me writer and historian Dan Flores and brought to you by Velvet Buck, this podcast looks at a West available nowhere else. Each episode I'll be diving into some of the lesser known history of the West. I'll then be joined in conversation by guests such as Western historian Dr. Randall Williams and best selling author and Meat Eater founder Stephen Rinella.
- [28:23]
Lowe's Advertiser
I'll correct my kids now and then.
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Microsoft Advertiser
Where they'll say when cave people were.
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Lowe's Advertiser
Here and I'll say it seems like the Ice Age people that were here.
- [28:30]
Microsoft Advertiser
Didn'T have a real affinity for caves.
- [28:32]
Dan Flores
So join me starting Tuesday, May 6th where we'll delve into stories of the west and come to understand how it helps inform the ways in which we experience the region today.
- [28:44]
Microsoft Advertiser
Listen to the American west with Dan Flores on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. All right guys, we're going to bring Jackson on. So what I would like to do here because Jackson has put a great deal of thought into this, I want to just get Jackson's take. Basically the idea is for to set the stage. I have said on the show that I think the Thunder would beat up on the Pacers or the Knicks if they went to the finals and we've had some discussion about it on the show centering around game plan, which I'm sure Jackson will mention. But I am, I am like leaning towards OKC and 5, maybe even 4. So I want to give, I want to give Jackson a chance to make the case for why he thinks at least you're, you're. I'm guessing you're saying at least you expect a longer, more competitive series.
- [29:33]
Podcast Host
Yeah, I do think OKC should be a substantial favorite and I would pick them to win the series. I just think that the Patriots have a chance, have a build of a team and have some key attributes that make them potentially able to give the Thunder some promise to win a few games. And it mainly comes down to three things. One, they and Halliburton in general, as we've discussed a lot, do not turn the basketball over. They are bottom five in the league in, you know, team turnovers on offensive turnovers. And Halle, you know, 15 assists, no turnovers. Tonight is evidence of how lethal that can be, especially against a team like the Thunder that forces the most turnovers in the league really thrives in transition, as we've discussed. Second thing, the Pacers. I haven't seen a team in a while that are this committed to punishing Smalls in switches with, with. With a player who's not their best, their lead guy. Right. Most teams, they get a switch, they want to take Brunson and have him go against whoever your worst defender is. Tatum, have him go against. They're like, no, we don't even care. We don't need Halle to ISO cat. If we got Pascal. If Brunson is guarding past Galva switch, we are going to give him the ball over and over and over and over and over. They are so, so committed to it. It's. It's really, it's really impressive. And the third thing is they, this is sort of more of a game plan, potentially specific thing as, as we've discussed depending on how OKC guards, the Pacers move the ball as well as any team this season, as well as any team I can remember in the last, you know, since maybe the warriors, they move that fricking basketball and the OKC Thunder in their normal defense that they run that they haven't really changed to this point. Maybe they'll change it against Indiana, but they haven't really changed much. They. That's how you beat them is with. Is with a lot of passes, a lot of ball movement, getting your advantage and saying we want to we get our first advantage. Let's find the best possible shot that we can get out of that advantage. Now, if the Thunder change up their defensive game plan and say just score as many points as you can, Tyrese Halliburton, that, you know, changes the calculus a little bit. But it feels like the Pacers have, offensively, at least theoretically, have some of the things that are required to beat a defense as good as the Thunders.
- [31:48]
Microsoft Advertiser
Great breakdown. I think the thing that you hit on that is especially important is the way that the Pacers attack switches. It's different than what like Tatum and Brown were doing. They're not like, oh, we have this six foot tall guy in space. Let me face him up from 24ft from the basket. It's like it's no, like Turner, Turner in particular is like beating switches at the rim. Like at the rim, he's like, it's whether it's an offensive rebound or it's a deep seal, it's at the rim. And then Siakam will occasionally go to like a right shoulder fade or a left shoulder fade, but he's attacking those mismatches very close to the rim and that is going to be a key part there. Now the, let's go through some of the specifics. So the, the passing the ball through Oklahoma City's defense part, this is where it gets fascinating because I actually do think there's a solid chance that Mark, I trust Mark Dagal as a very smart basketball coach to know that what Denver did, what Minnesota has done in terms of sagging and forcing shade to shoot over the top and to make passing reads is the best way or excuse me, with the, with the, with these other teams and how they have been really aggressive forward aggressive against like Minnesota, like picking up ant full court, making them pass against blitzes and ball pressure and Julius Randall getting double teamed on every post up like that worked against them. And I think he knows that Indiana is a better passing team that doesn't turn the basketball over. But I, I, I, I trust Dagonal to know that it may not be the best game plan. But I also wouldn't be surprised if he tried it anyway. I wouldn't be surprised if he was like, let's just see if they shit their pants. You know, like let's, Halliburton's never played in the finals before. Let's give him Lou Dort physical defense at the point of attack. Let's just see what happens. Right. And I think the main key there is going to be if Indiana does have success against it, will he pivot quickly? Now to your point about having it be a longer Series, let's say that they come out in game one and it's forward aggressive over help, leaving weak side skips open and the Pacers steal game one, then there's a really good chance this goes six, because then we're probably getting at least two, if not three Indiana home games. And I wouldn't be shocked if they got one of those games and now it's a six game series. So to your point like that, that I can see absolutely playing a role. My main contention is that if he does make the game plan change so again, you load up strong side, Tyrese Halliburton is just rifling skip passes over the top. They're playing with an advantage. I do think with the double, I do think with the post ups and the, the switch attacking with Turner and Siakam, I think that he'll double. I think that he'll double immediately and I think it'll be a bigger challenge for Siakam and Turner to deal with those double teams than it is in some of these other matchups. I mean, to put it simply, we've seen a lot of people, including Jokic kind of like fall apart. Yok Yoga had a three game stretch where he was bad against okc. So like there's a certain, there's a certain amount of that there too. My main contention is that inevitably I think this series devolves down to we're staying home. Regarding Halliburton, one on one, regarding actions, two on two, three man actions, three on three, we're communicating through switches, we're switching everything. You try scoring on us one on one, over and over again. And they're just not the team that's going to make as many mistakes as the Knicks made. And that, that's where I think it gets a little, it gets a little tricky. But to your point, all it takes is Oklahoma City bringing their base game plan, Halliburton passing through it, not turning the ball over, Siakam and Turner doing damage against switches. You steal a game in OKC early in the series before the game plan shifts, then all of a sudden you win a game in Indiana off the strength of your home crowd. And to your point, anything can happen. So if it's, let's say it's 2, 2 going back to Oklahoma City. What if Oklahoma City shits their pants in a bunch of, in a bunch of big ways in the finals? That's a great point. So, so yeah, I mean, so what do you think? Like what? Let me just put it to you this way. If you had to guess how OKC guards and how quickly Mark Dagonault pivots. What would you expect to happen?
- [36:29]
Podcast Host
I expect Dort on Halle to start both because he's the best on ball defender option as well as he's so strong that you think you, if you're the Thunder you're talking yourself into, we can survive a Pascal switch on Ludor if we feel like switching. We can survive that. So I think that's sort of like the big question right away is are they going to switch any of those pick and rolls with Siakam or anybody and do they feel comfortable with any, any of their sort of wing guard defenders in those switches? But it's going to be interesting to see OKC has so many guys, they got so many defensive bodies. They ran a lineup at one point in the second half yesterday. I don't think they do that often, but they do sometimes. Where they had Kayson, Wallace, Caruso and Dort on the floor at the same time. I'm like, what are you supposed to do as an offense when those three dudes are defending your one year, two and you're three? It's like that is, that is terrifying. So that and I do think the doubling is going to happen for sure once Pascal and Miles inevitably, you know, punish some of those switches and we will see. It'll be very interesting to see if Aaron Neesmith can stay hot be he's a very streaky shooter and if Andrew Nemhard can, can stay as playoff Klay Thompson because I looked up the numbers the other day and he shoots something like 32% from 3 in the regular season and over his career in the playoffs, he's over 50%. So if he can keep hitting over 50% of their threes like they got a shot for real or maybe not a shot, but they got a shot to make it competitive. I think they got a shot to make it competitive if, if those guys can, can be, can, can, can be, can, can knock down more shots than Case and Wallace Lou Dort.
- [38:05]
Microsoft Advertiser
One of the things we haven't even talked about yet that I think is worth mentioning. By the way, guys like my I have not done any prep yet for this potential series, so I haven't watched Gone Back to rewatch their regular season matchups. I could very well change my mind. My initial gut feeling was that the Timberwolves would beat Oklahoma City. I gave them a slight edge in my initial gut feeling. Then I went to watch the film and I was like, oh, like I don't think they're going to be able to get Julius Randle the ball in places where he can score and I don't think they're going to be able to go to Nasrid on the block. So you know, maybe I changed my mind after seeing some stuff the let's talk through the Pacers on defense in this matchup for a second. One of the things that I found interesting in the film of the Timberwolves Thunder series is Jada McDaniels has been awful on Shay like straight up awful like this the second straight year where he's been like straight up non effective on ball against a star in the conference finals. Now I my theory is is that it's matchup based in the sense that I think Luka was way too big and strong for him and I think Shay is too fast for him. And so there's this other conversation to have which is like our wiry 68 defensive wings just like not versatile enough to succeed in the postseason if you're.
- [39:26]
Podcast Host
Not strong enough for one guy and you're not quick enough for another guy.
- [39:29]
Microsoft Advertiser
Yeah exactly. And like it's bad because like I would argue those two series have swung on Jaden's complete inability to make the stars uncomfortable from the other team. And but and then looking at the Pacers it's probably going to be nice Smith and niece Smith like we talked about earlier, Jaden is we just we were talking about in the show like Jaden stances have been so frustrating for me watching on film as he's like conceding driving in angles to Shay and I think N Smith if he can square him up, navigate screens well, keep him in front, force him to be an over the top shooter without them having to overdo the help. But like there were a lot of stretches in tonight's game where the rotation like the defensive backside rotations for the Pacers are super impressive. Seakum had three or four crazy weak side closeouts on OG Anunoby where he chased him off the line like an OG hit a crazy step back over him on one of them. But like his ability to help and then rotate there you could see I I could talk myself into the Pacers being an interesting defensive matchup for the Thunder because Turner can protect the rim. Siakam's an excellent weak side rotational player like even Halliburton I think is underrated as kind of like a dude does his job on defense kind of guy. And then what if ne Smith just slides his feet well and contains against Shay I'm going to go ahead and say, Jackson, that you've convinced me. I think that. I think that the Pacers have a better chance to make it competitive against the Thunder than than I was giving them credit for. That said, I would still be really surprised if they won the series. But yeah, I think you're right about the fact that the Pacers are just a really good team that you could argue just Indiana being in the right place all the time as like a help and recover rotation team will inherently cause a bunch of 22 year olds to suck in the finals one night.
- [41:27]
Podcast Host
So this is the other thing I was going to say that I forgot. It does feel like because OKC is so smart and so fast and they're so connected on both ends that you really have to be well connected as a unit to beat them, which the Timberwolves are not. The Timberwolves are the farthest thing from well connected. Connected. They're very talented. But they got Julius Randall and Rudy Gobert. They're not going to be well connected. Right. And so I think the Pacers are super synergistically in flow right now and that is going to go a long way against a team as smart.
- [41:57]
Microsoft Advertiser
That's a good point. I think, I think that, I think that that is the key there is like they're older, they're more experienced, they. There's a version of this where they just do all the right things in two NBA Finals games and the 22 year olds just kind of struggle in the mom. So there's a version of that too. And, and to your point, like if they run and they move the ball well, they're going to get open threes, especially against Oklahoma City's base game plan. It's going to be interesting. I'm excited to dive into the film. Obviously we'll wait until both series actually finish before we do that, but that's going to be. That's going to be a really fascinating series. I'm super interested in it. But Jackson, thanks for taking the time to prep all of that. What do you say we just head over to game to playback? Sound good to you? Cool. All right guys, that's all we have for tonight. As always, we sincerely appreciate you guys for supporting us and supporting the show. I'm headed over to playback again. That's Playback TV hoops tonight we'll be taking callers, taking questions, stuff like that. As always, we appreciate you guys for supporting us and supporting the show. We will see you tomorrow night for game five of the Thunder and the Timberwolves what's up guys? As always, I appreciate you for listening to and supporting Hoops tonight. It would actually be really helpful for us if you guys would take take a second and leave a rating and a review. As always, I appreciate you guys supporting us, but if you could take a minute to do that, I'd really appreciate it.
- [43:17]
The Volume Host
The Volume.
- [43:21]
Microsoft Advertiser
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- [43:49]
Lowe's Advertiser
Have you heard about this? Last year, Degree changed the formula for their Cool Rush deodorant. Their fans rebelled and wanted the old scent back and Degree listen, that doesn't happen often. They admitted that they effed up and are bringing the original Cool Rush scent back. And it's exactly how you remember it. Cool, crisp and fresh. There's a reason it's the number one Manzani Purse Sprint and it's back in Walmart, Target and other stores for under $4. So try it and see what the fuss is about. Head to your local stores to try the OG Cool Rush for yourself.
- [44:21]
Mental Health Podcast Host
The Made for this Mountain podcast exists to empower listeners to rise above their inner struggles and face the mountain in front of them. So during Mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast, focus on your emotional well being and then climb that mountain.
- [44:36]
Mental Health Podcast Guest
You will never be able to change or grow through the thing that you refuse to identify. The thing that you refuse to say. Hey, this is my mountain. This is the struggle.
- [44:44]
Mental Health Podcast Host
Listen to Made for this mountain on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [44:52]
Dan Flores
Why is a soap opera Western like Yellowstone so wildly successful? The American west with Dan Flores is the latest show from the Meat Eater Podcast Network. So join me starting Tuesday, May 6, where we'll delve into stories of the west and come to understand how it helps inform the ways in which we experience the region today.
- [45:14]
Microsoft Advertiser
Listen to the American west with Dan Flores on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [45:21]
Podcast Host
You're listening to an iHeart podcast.