← The Herd with Colin Cowherd
The Herd with Colin Cowherd
Hoops Tonight - LIVE: PACERS-THUNDER FINALS GAME 1 REACTION: Tyrese Haliburton DOES IT AGAIN to steal comeback win off SGA
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- [00:00]
Ryan Seacrest
This is an iHeart podcast.
- [00:04]
Lester Holt
AI is redefining what's possible for your business. With more unique challenges to solve and higher stakes than ever, Microsoft helps you stay ahead. Our trustworthy AI tools and guidance can empower leaders like you to drive greater impact. And with Azure's simplified platform management, we're helping businesses go further and faster by unlocking up to 150% improved output. Whatever challenges come next, let Microsoft help you keep pushing forward. For more details, visit Microsoft.com challengers@&t has a new guarantee because most things in life are not guaranteed. Like getting through self checkout by yourself. Not guaranteed. But when it comes to your wireless connectivity, now that should be guaranteed. And with AT&T guarantee it actually is. AT&T is introducing a guarantee with connectivity that you can depend on, deals you want and service you deserve or they make it right. Learn more at att.comguarantee ATT Connecting changes everything. Terms and conditions apply. Visit att.comguarantee for details. The NBC Nightly News legacy isn't handed down.
- [01:08]
Tom Brokaw
For NBC News, I'm Tom Brokaw. We hope to see you back here.
- [01:11]
Lester Holt
I'm Lester Holt.
- [01:12]
Ryan Seacrest
It's carried forward.
- [01:13]
Lester Holt
Tom Yamaz is there for us.
- [01:15]
Ryan Seacrest
Firefighters are still working around the clock. As the world changes, we look for what endures. We are coming on the air with breaking news. Right now we look for a constant and from one era to the next, Trust is the anchor For NBC Nightly.
- [01:28]
Lester Holt
News, I'm Tom Yamas.
- [01:29]
Ryan Seacrest
A new chapter begins NBC Nightly News with Tom Yamas evenings on NBC.
- [01:35]
Lester Holt
Okay, have you heard about this? Last year, Degree changed the formula for their Cool Rush deodorant. Their fans rebelled and wanted the old scent back. And ° listen, that doesn't happen often. They admitted that they effed up and are bringing the original Cool Rush scent back. And it's exactly how you remember it. Cool, crisp and fresh. There's a reason it's the number one man's antiperspirant. And it's back in Walmart, Target and other stores for under $4. So try it and see what the fuss is about. Head to your local stores to try the OG Cool Rush for yourself. The volume the NBA Finals are here. This is your last chance to bet on the NBA until next season. And DraftKings Sportsbook, an official sports betting partner of the NB pulling out all the stops to make this a finals to remember. One team will be crowned champ and the other will be lost to history. Who you got winning it all? Put your hoops expertise to the test. All season long, DraftKings has been the go to spot for NBA player props and that doesn't stop now. Who's going to carry their team to the chip? Try placing a bet on your personal MVP to drop 30, 40 or maybe even over 50. Ready to place your own bet? Download the DraftKings sportsbook app, lock in your bets and finish the season as a winner. Here's something special for first timers. New DraftKings customers bet $5 to get $300 in bonus bets. If your bet wins, don't miss your last chance to bet on the NBA this season. Download the DraftKings sportsbook app and use code HOOPS. That's H O O P S. That's code hoops for new customers to get $300 in bonus bets. If your bet wins when you bet five bucks only on DraftKings, the crown is yours. Gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER in New York, call 877-8-HOPENY or text Hopeny to 467-369 in Connecticut. Help is available for problem gambling. Call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org Please play responsibly on behalf of Boothill Casino and Resort in Kansas. 21 plus. Age and eligibility varies by jurisdiction. Void in Ontario. Bet must win to receive reward. Minimum minus 500 odds. Required bonus bets expire 168 hours after issuance. For additional terms and responsible gaming resources, see DKNG Co Audio. All right, welcome to Hoops Tonight here at the Volume. Happy Thursday everybody. Hope all of you guys are having a great week. As I said after game one of the Eastern Conference Finals, there's some sort of weird voodoo magic going on that makes it so that you have to beat the Indiana Pacers for like five times in a seven game series. And once again in classic fashion, down against the ropes several different times down the stretch, several different runs from the Thunder to build more additional margin. And then impossible shot after impossible shot from the Pacers down the stretch. Aaron Neesmith coming flying out of that left corner, rising and firing like it's game one against the Knicks all over again. Andrew nemhard with the 17 dribble, step back against Jay Gilchrist. Alexander with a hand right in his face to hit the three. And then Tyrese Halliburton with the clock winding down against K's on Wallace, a quick little stop and pop jumper a little bit outside of the right elbow and The Pacers are up 10 in the NBA Finals and very much in position to give themselves a chance to win this series. Just absolutely unbelievable stuff. All my notes, crumple them up, throw them in the trash. As far as the narrative of this game goes, we're going to get into as much of the basketball as we can and talk about the different dynamics at play in the series and try to interpret as much of this as we can into what's repeatable and what is not. But I am in complete shock. As I can imagine just about anybody outside of the Pacers fans who have been believing in this team all season long, I'm in shock and I barely know where to start with this thing. I will say before we get started, I cannot say enough how much this Pacers team has just injected an enormous amount of entertainment into this NBA Playoffs. The NBA Playoffs has been a lot of blowouts over the years in recent years. Kind of lacking some of that high level entertainment in the later rounds. And this Pacers team and their unwillingness to give up and the way that they play and the way that they put themselves in position to steal games with their incredible attention to detail and sharpness and relentless motor and effort have just literally injected the enthusiasm and honestly, just what I think is a very beautiful brand of basketball for all of us to watch and enjoy, for young basketball players to learn from, to improve their own games, for basketball teams and basketball coaches to improve the way they play. I can't say enough about what the Pacers have done in this playoff run for my view of the game. I think for everybody's learning of the game and obviously just making for a very entertaining basketball product. You guys know the drill before we get started, subscribe to the Hoops Tonight YouTube channel so you don't miss any more of our videos. Follow me on Twitter at_jason lt so you guys don't miss show announcements. Don't forget about our podcast feed wherever you get your podcasts under Hoops Tonight. It's also super helpful if you leave a rating and a review on that front. Jackson's doing great work on our social media feeds on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook and TikTok. Make sure you guys follow us there for additional content throughout the season. We are not doing a mailbag at the tail end of tonight's show because we're hitting a an all star topic surrounding the new move from Adam Silver to try to pit Team USA versus the World. We're gonna have that, but we will when we wrap up here tonight, be heading over to Playback. That's Playback TV slash Hoops. Tonight we will be doing A chat mailbag there. We'll also be taking callers. We'll obviously watch the film from that insane fourth quarter and go over how the Pacers stole this game. I'm looking forward to watching through that with you guys. So when we wrap up here on YouTube, remember to follow us over to Playback TV slash Hoops tonight. All right, let's talk some basketball. So this game really was a story of two halves in a lot of ways. I talked about how in the series preview that there is like an opening test with Oklahoma City, these fail points, if you guys remember, I talked about these potential failure points for Indiana in the series where if they just struggled to get the ball to where it needed to be, that they were dead on arrival. And those. We talked about specifics. We talked about ball pressure in the backcourt. We talked about off ball denials. We talked about high post entries and low post entries. We talked about double teams in posts and isos and drives. We talked about like, when they get the ball into the middle of the floor, whether it's through a drive or a roll or a post, the, the ability for them to pass out of the traffic in those spots on the floor. And they failed that test miserably in the first half. Like, as bad as you will ever see. Especially relative to the way that this Indiana Pacers team typically takes care of the basketball. Turnovers bringing the ball up the floor, dudes getting poked away from behind as they're not paying attention to what's happening behind them. Turnovers on post entries, turnovers on pocket passes as they're missing, guys tagging from the weak side. Everything. The big one that they were dealing with in that first half was posts and isos. When guys turned their back, just like as soon as someone turned their back, the dude was just swooping in from behind and swiping the ball away in the half court. 19 turnovers in the first half. A truly remarkable performance defensively from the Thunder. Honestly, I thought it was a showcase of everything that makes them so great. Again, like for those of you haven't, for you Thunder fans, maybe if you haven't watched as much, Pacers, like, that's a team that doesn't turn the ball over a lot. That's a team that typically handles that sort of aggression and pressure extremely well. And they didn't in that first half. And it's because of the job that Lou Dortmund can do on Tyrese Halliburton to make him uncomfortable. It's because of the job that those guys do swarming and swiping at the basketball. Lou Dort, his activity on the back line even in this game, Caruso on the back line, everyone flying around and making plays. Even Shea getting in on the turnover. Forcing now to Indiana's credit, their transition defense in that catastrophe in the first half kept them in the game. We talked so much over the course of the last few weeks about low hanging fruit. These are things that are available in every single basketball game to every single team. Now you need a certain amount of elite shot making to make it to your ultimate goal in the NBA. Like that's the fourth time in this playoff run that Tyrese Halliburton has hit a tough shot in a one on one situation to either win a game or to put his team in position to win a game. In the final seconds of the as the clock is expiring, obviously the Aaron Neesmith shot, the Andrew Nemhard shot, there were a lot of really tough shots that were mixed in there. And obviously you're not just going to win a game because you're a sharp, disciplined basketball team. You've got to have a certain amount of individual greatness to carry you over the top. Especially when you're staring down Shay Gilgis Alexander on the other end, who outside of his last couple possessions I thought had a really good game. And at a certain point, in order to put yourself in position to weather that storm, to live through some turnovers, to live through some sloppiness, you gotta be super sharp in other areas of the game. And they consistently got back, protected the rim and stopped the ball, got contests on three point shooters. And so despite allowing or despite turning the ball over 19 times in the first half, they allowed just nine points off of those turnovers. And then as we say, when you're going to apply that type of pressure, if you're going to deny, if you're going to double, if you're going to tag rollers and offer a ton of nail help and double team post ups and do all of that stuff. The flip side is guys are open and if you can get the ball through the defense to those guys, they're still open. They are a good closeout team. They're going to make it more difficult than it appears on the surface compared to some other opponents out there. But you can't act. They don't actually have six players on the court. They just feel like that sometimes if you can take care of the basketball and you could pass it through their defense, you can get open shots against Oklahoma City's base scheme and in the second half just six turnovers total. Three in the third quarter, three in the fourth quarter and just two points off of turnovers as a result. Mixed in obviously with the tough shot making that we saw a lot of pretty solid either like wide open catch and shoot threes for guys like Obi Toppin or you know, moderately contested catch and shoot threes that are good looks for guys like Aaron Neesmith and a lot of pretty high quality attempts right around the rim. And they scored 66 points in the second half and all night long their defense held up pretty well, wasn't perfect. They ran a lot of traditional coverages and at various points against the traditional coverages they struggled. Shay Gilgis Alexander, to his credit, a lot of stars in NBA history struggle in the NBA finals. They get a little passive or they get tentative or they, you know, kind of get just. They just look kind of shook from the moment. I mean you saw it happen to several pace, you saw it happen to damn near the entire Pacers bench to start this game. Although shout out to Obi Toppin. He had about as nightmare a start to this game as you could possibly have, fumbling the ball and throwing it around all over the place. But he hit a couple of threes and he loosened up and he was awesome from that point forward and hit so many big shots for the Pacers in this game. But once the at the start of the game, Shay Gilders Alexander came out and he was like screw being passive, screw easing my way into this game. I'm shooting the basketball. And he had 11 shot attempts in the first quarter. I think he had like 19 or 20 in the first half. And he essentially accelerated the process with which he became comfortable, which I actually thought was smart, especially as a scoring guard, like if you're a scoring guard. And again the formula for this team is elite defense and Shay shot making on a lot of nights, especially when things bogged down the way they did and he just got himself into a pretty good rhythm. I thought he passed out of an ISO to J dub late that he probably didn't need to. It kind of looked like he was just hesitant to go ISO again and then overcooked his last little pull up jump shot long off the back end of the rim. But overall throughout the game, I mean like tough shot making. Give Shay get a decent look and you know you have Andrew Nemhard hit a crazy 17 dribble, step back three right in his face. Like there's a certain amount of variance that goes into that sort of thing. And I thought Shea played a pretty damn good game under the circumstances with the gate, with the way that the game went. The Pacers came out in a high drop coverage with Turner. I've talked about this before. The high drop coverage with Indiana with respect to Shay has nothing to do with taking away the pull up jump shot off of the, off of the three point line. If he comes off the screen clean, it's all about trying to stop Shea from turning the corner with the Runway. And Shea cooked that coverage right off the bat and was getting right around Turner and drawing fouls and getting all the way to the rim. That's why we saw so many Shay layups in the first part of the game. Then the, the Pacers adjusted and they went from that high drop to more of a low drop where Turner was meeting him far back. And that was when Shea really started to get going with his mid range shot making. And that was kind of how all of that initial work early in the game that he did to get his feel and to get his aggression really started to pay off. And like out like Shay was awesome in this game. Lou Dort was awesome in this game. Lou Dort is. It's so funny. He shot so poorly overall in this postseason run. But against the Pacers in the regular season, he killed them. And he went right back to killing them tonight. Had five threes and a lot of those like kind of semi tough contested threes that you need to knock down in the postseason. But outside of Shea and Lou Dort, they generally did a pretty good job. I think there are some things they need to clean up. We saw a lot of, we saw a lot of the attacking of Tyrese Halliburton and Obi Toppin and in a little bit of Siakam too. And in guard, guard screens out above the break. And Shea had some success like quickly attacking those guys when they were hedging and splitting action and drawing fouls. And he did a lot of damage up there. But for the most part, in the aggregate, they prevented the explosive Oklahoma City quarter. How did they prevent the explosive Oklahoma City corner quarter? By keeping them out of transition. Again, guys, this is a team that in this postseason run is averaging like 23, 24 something crazy in points off of turnovers and pulling it up real quick. Right now they are, they are carrying their offense for extended stretches in this postseason literally by just forcing turnovers and getting out in transition. 23.8 is their postseason average in points off of turnovers held them to just 11 tonight. Oklahoma City's offense is capable of being very good, but they don't have the depth of elite shot making off the ball and just overall offensive feel to be a super explosive slowdown offense. If you can keep them out of transition by preventing those easy transition points, by getting back, stopping the ball, getting to the rim, forcing them to knock down jump shots, you can keep them from having the explosive quarter. And that's what Indiana did. Indiana had a 35 point quarter. Oklahoma City didn't have a 30 point quarter in this game. Let's get to some of the other little adjustments that I saw. Oklahoma City, they give up a lot of open threes with their swarming defense and it is a trade off. Like again in the first half they forced a bunch of turnovers and it generally paid off, right? Didn't get out and transition as much as they could have, but overall they had a good half. In the second half, Indiana was able to successfully get the ball out and they knocked down shots. They could try to loosen that up a little bit, essentially just being a little bit more picky. I liked when they dove at the basketball. When some of the lesser ball handlers turned their head. If Siakam turns his head away from you, go for it. If Obi Toppin turns his head away from you, go for it. If Miles Turner turns his head away from you, go for it. But if he's looking at you, or if it's anybody that can handle the ball pretty well, be a little bit more hesitant to help because this is a Pacers team that will get the ball out. Almost half of their shot attempts tonight were pretty clean or they were three point shots and they got a lot of pretty clean looks as part of that process. Oklahoma City also, I thought did a decent amount of damage on the offensive glass in the first half. Oh, Indiana flipped that dynamic in the second half. We got started to see some of their size on the interior do some more damage. That's an area where Oklahoma City can do better. We saw them do better in the first half of this particular game. Just looking through my notes really quick here, bear with me. It was a an absolute disaster of a planning night for the show with me putting together the show based on Oklahoma City controlling the. I think it was their first lead on the Tyrese Halliburton shot that he made. It's just an absolutely unbelievable game. Overall, Indiana did have success attacking Smalls. You saw some of the specific differences like it when, when they're doing that three quarter front. We saw Rick Carlisle Talking about some of those, like, tight window bounce passes aren't there. It's almost better for them to push the post a little bit further out and then look to attack with a. With an aggressive move, like spinning off of that guy or something along those lines. We also did see a good amount of that damage being done on the offensive glass. It's an alternative. You got his switch. Instead of trying to cram in some crazy entry pass, put something up from the perimeter, a decent, you know, swing the ball around, run a quick ghost screen, do something to get you a decent perimeter jump shot. Look, and if you shoot it high and soft enough, you're going to give your big guy a pretty good chance to win that battle. On the flip side, I think that's something that we saw in that second half. Unbelievable stuff Again, I think Indiana could. I think Indiana could lighten up a little bit on some of their traditional coverages. We saw a lot of them giving up pretty easy stuff. Like the ball screen coverages with Turner weren't working against Shay and either the high drop or the low drop. Thomas Bryant gave up an easy layup to Isaiah Hartenstein on a play where he was opening up his stance for Seakum to cut through because it should have been a switch. It wasn't. So then Hardenstein would just went right to the basket for a layup. We saw Mark Dagault after a timeout after OB Toppin hit a three to cut the lead to eight. They just had Shea set a back screen for Case on Wallace on Tyrese Halliburton. Pacers didn't want to switch it. Nemhard was hugged up to Shea. Easy layup for KSI Wallace cutting along that backside. Even in that second half. Down the stretch, we saw them get a lot of good looks out of those hedges, right? I thought they looked a little bit better when they were just super aggressive on those switches th those hedges. Like actually like almost like a blitz just attacking him and forcing him to get rid of the basketball. At least in those late game situations where they're packing the paint, they were able to force some catch and shoot jumpers from some of their lesser shooters down the stretch. By doing that, I just think they need to get away from passive traditional coverages. These big guys can't contain the ball well enough. Thomas Bryant can't. Miles Turner can't. They're giving up a little bit too much dribble penetration there. I've liked it against Jalen Williams. We saw Miles Turner against Jalen Williams in the drop coverage, be able to get some stops in at the rim and in the short range. But specifically with Shai I would either be super aggressive or I would just switch and force him to ISO and then be aggressive in your help pinching down off of him because again in those traditional coverages they were giving up too many of those openings.
- [22:53]
Tom Brokaw
Blending Vice's signature dynamic storytelling with the high octane world of sports, Vice Sports brings an exciting and diverse range of programming that goes beyond the game. From action packed live events to gripping behind the scenes documentaries to hard hitting investigative pieces and in depth program profiles of athletes, coaches, teams, Vice Sports captures the raw energy, drama and passion that makes sports truly unforgettable. Catch live events and other exclusive sports programs only on Vice TV. Go to vice tv.com to find your.
- [23:25]
Lester Holt
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- [25:27]
Ryan Seacrest
Let me check this pocket.
- [25:29]
Lester Holt
Oh, mints. Really, I'm fine. Oh, I have raisins. I'm a mom. Wait, wait one sec. I've got cupcakes in the car.
- [25:35]
Ryan Seacrest
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- [25:59]
Tom Brokaw
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Lester Holt
Man, I know that was all over the place, but it was that kind of game. I'm going to have Jackson come on here. We're going to talk a little bit more about the game and then we will get into some of that all star topic before we head over to playback.
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Ryan Seacrest
Let's do it. Let's do it first. I think I'm going to throw at you. We got a super chat question from Cole. Are people undervaluing Rick Carlile's coaching experience compared to Mark Dalz?
- [27:26]
Lester Holt
So I didn't. This is tricky. I think the credit that goes to Carlisle has more to do with foundational stuff. Like it. I didn't think it was. I didn't think Ricar went out there and just coached this like super magnificent X's and O's game that diced up the Thunder. I didn't think that was what happened here. I think that, I think that the credit goes to Rick Carlile in the work that he's done. Like guys, the, the team's basketball character flows from the top down. It's what kind of guys, what kind of dudes is your front office going after? Is he just strictly going after talent or is he going after guys that fit the culture of what you're trying to build? Right. Obviously there's a certain skill set you need as well, but there's a certain, like, are you, are you getting competitive ass kickers that like to play hard and that want to be the best basketball player that they could possibly be, down to the head coach, down to the star of your team, down to the co star of your team, down to the types of dudes that you have in that locker room. But Rick Carlisle from day one of this season and dating back multiple years has just instilled in these guys this level of intensity, this level of relentlessness, this attention to detail. You know how crazy it is off of 19 turnovers, only give up nine points in transition to the Oklahoma City Thunder. You know how sharp you have to be, you know how dedicated you have to be. Watching that juxtaposed with what we saw from the Knicks in game six of the Eastern Conference finals. It was absolutely amazing. But like I didn't think again, as far as Dagnal goes, like we did see a little bit of that like bogging down ISO offense at the top of the key. But I didn't think they got bad looks. They got some clean catch and shoot looks again. I thought Shay put Shea shouldn't have passed the ball to J dub on the second to last ISO. You're. You're asking a 23 year old to bail you out there. You're the dude. Go, go, go get a buc. And then he overcooked a jumper that if he makes it, they win. Right? So like I don't want to overreact. I want to just give credit to Carlisle for the, the basketball character that he's instilled in this team.
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Ryan Seacrest
Yeah, I agree and normally I don't care about stuff like Sham Strania reporting before the game. Here's how, here's my take on. But he did have a stand up about team building and about how this might be a sign for teams with considering both of the teams going after some of these ultra competitive multiple college year guys as opposed to just hunting for a star every time in the draft. And that type of thing really feels relevant when you're seeing guys like Andrew Nemhardt be so successful in the playoffs. You're seeing guys like Lou Dort who not he wasn't even drafted, but like guys who are just had this highly super high motor, super highly competitive are being. Are a lot more valuable in for teams like this, especially for teams with championship aspirations than taking your dart throw at the one hopeful star pick.
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Lester Holt
You know, we talk about this all the time like bass playing. Winning basketball sucks. It's hard, man. Like it's hard in the normal context of like you guys going to play pickup like when we go play pickup. Obviously if you want to win more pickup games, you got to do all the shit that's hard, right? You got to run back and transition defense, you got to talk through screens, you got to put your body on the line for rebounds, you got to run the floor on offense, you got to do all those sorts of things. Now add the additional layer of advanced NBA schematics and all the different game plan stuff you got to remember and all the specific stuff within different coverages that they go to utilize. And it's just extremely difficult. It's extremely difficult. And so you need a certain type of personality, a certain type of guy in that locker room that's willing to put in the work. And it's a little bit harder to find than you'd think. Again, there's, I think that there's a competitive nature trait that is vastly underrated in the NBA. And it's just like how much do your dudes hate to lose? Because if they really hate to lose, then they will listen to their coach when their coach is presenting to them a plan with which to avoid that loss. And I just, I just think, man, I know you heard me at the top of the show. I just can't say enough about this Pacers team and how special they are just to the game of basketball for what the, for the example that they represent.
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Ryan Seacrest
Yeah, they. I can't remember a team ever playing like this ever. Like It's. It's amazing how relentless they are on both ends. They're like the seven second sons offensively, but they're kind of dynamic defensively at this point. They like, for when Pascal got healthy at that point in the regular season, they had the second best record in the NBA and their defense has been quite good since then. It's hard to remember. I can't think of teams that were this sort of dynamic and speed oriented offensively that were able to translate that to the defensive end.
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Lester Holt
Also their relentlessness in rotation, like, even like concession shots, like, oh, okay, see? Bang, bang, bang. Broke you down. Got a wide open three. They're still throwing a closeout. It's just like a token closeout. Like, let's not let this dude get super comfortable. Let's make him realize he's got to shoot it right now. Like, there's just. It's so crazy, man. And then, like, honestly too, I want to hand it to Halliburton too. Like, Halliburton was having one of those games too where he was getting a couple of looks here and there. Occasionally you do that classic thing where he drags out the ball screen and then pump fakes and the dude just goes flying by. But like, he wasn't exactly getting super high quality looks, but he just stayed invested and then made a couple plays late when he needed to. It's this team, man. And there's the tough shot making voodoo is legitimately crazy. Because it's crazy. It's like they are at the end of these games, Andrew Nemhard hit, like, legitimately. A Kyrie Irving dribble combination.
- [33:14]
Ryan Seacrest
Bro. He was dribbling the air out of the basketball three consecutive possessions.
- [33:17]
Lester Holt
Yeah.
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Ryan Seacrest
And then he hits the. One of the most insane threes you could possibly hit at that moment.
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Lester Holt
Oh, my God, he's missed three before.
- [33:23]
Ryan Seacrest
That rattles in.
- [33:24]
Lester Holt
Oh, dude.
- [33:25]
Ryan Seacrest
Just a laser that rattles in. And Halliburton having the. To your point. Having the, the. The. The confidence in the balls to take that last shot after not having a particularly effective scoring game. It's one thing to take that shot if you're a score first player, even if you're having a bad game or if you're having a great game. He is a pass first player who was not having a good scoring game and said, no problem. Give me the. Give me the fucking ball.
- [33:47]
Lester Holt
He got like. And he shot that with conviction too. Like, he stopped and popped and he put all his legs into it and he shot it high and he shot it soft. And it rattled in is unbelievable stuff. Before we go over to the All Star stuff, you texted me about halfway through the third quarter.
- [34:05]
Ryan Seacrest
Okay. Yeah.
- [34:06]
Lester Holt
And I'm gonna, I'm gonna read your exact text. Okay. And then what I want you to do is just kind of explain if you still feel this way overall.
- [34:13]
Ryan Seacrest
Okay.
- [34:14]
Lester Holt
Yes, you said, I feel like the Pacers are really in this series. Surprisingly, this Dort shooting performance is giving me Celtics game one in 2022 vibes. Dort going off and the Pacers can't stop turning the ball over and they're still only down 10. I don't know, it feels like they're in it to me. So do you, do you, like you straight up think the Pacers can win the series?
- [34:34]
Ryan Seacrest
I don't. Well, I still really wasn't, kind of wasn't expecting them to win this game. I was saying that more of like, oh, they're in the series. Not even they're going to win tonight. I was like, oh, they're more especially for game one. I kind of thought game one might be a blowout the other way or like in OKC might win by a lot of. And it looked like that for. For a little while. It was teetering on the edge of a potential blowout. And I don't know, I think I am still discounting the devil magic of the Pacers when I also texted you when Miles Turner missed that wide open three and Halle missed a step back three. And either of those threes, I think would have tied the game at that point or maybe cut it to one possession with like three, four minutes left, something like that. And I was like, oh, that was their moment. That was. It felt. It felt like their moment. It's like, dang, they were making the comeback. Had two very good looks to really get over that sort of mental hurdle of tying the game or maybe even taking the lead by one. And they missed them both. And I was like, ah, there it is. We'll on the game two here. Am I the dumb one? I haven't been been. I've also been discounting the Pacers this whole time. It's unbelievable how they keep doing this. I do feel like, I mean, obviously they won game one on the road. They're in the series. Absolutely. I would expect, you know, a 20 point Thunder win in game two. But how can we not say that they have a chance to win this?
- [35:45]
Lester Holt
How can we not?
- [35:47]
Ryan Seacrest
How can we not? We can't.
- [35:48]
Lester Holt
I'm going to put it like this simple. I think it was Zach Lowe. That said, like. Like, anybody who's picking anything other than Oklahoma City in five or six is expecting something really weird to happen. For the record, I agree with that. So I'm not about here. I'm not here saying Zach is wrong. Here's what I'm thinking right this second, though. What do you mean something. Something weird's gonna happen? This entire postseason for the Pacers has been weird. Like, everything about it is weird. Like, it's a lot.
- [36:13]
Tom Brokaw
Guess what?
- [36:13]
Ryan Seacrest
You got.
- [36:14]
Lester Holt
Weird thing.
- [36:15]
Ryan Seacrest
You just did it. Weird thing done.
- [36:17]
Lester Holt
Yeah, exactly. It's like. It's like, here you go. It just got weird. It just got weird.
- [36:22]
Ryan Seacrest
It just got weird.
- [36:25]
Lester Holt
Yeah, you're right. Like, I. I thought it was. For me, it was the Turner three. When Turner had that wide open pick and pop three late that he missed. And he had hit two in a row before that. But like, he. Earlier in the second half, but he missed that pick and pop three and long off the back of the rim. And they didn't get the offensive rebound. And I was like, oh, there it goes. And they. But they just kept going. They just. They. The never stop thing is crazy. Highly underrated play in that sequence was the Pascal Siakam offensive rebound put back off of.
- [36:52]
Ryan Seacrest
Unbelievable play. Unbelievable play.
- [36:55]
Lester Holt
They did a lot of damage on the offensive glass along the baseline from their bigs down the stretch of this game. I did think that was fascinating. OKC really controlled things in that department early. And then. And then the dynamic flip. Any other thoughts on the game before we move over? No.
- [37:11]
Ryan Seacrest
I don't even know. It's so hard to process. No, I mean, it's just. It's just unbelievable. I'm just so excited for this series now. I was excited for the series before, but now it feels like we're in for a real treat. I was. I was a little worried about the excitement level across the board if there was an OKC blowout. And now it feels like we're all locked in.
- [37:27]
Lester Holt
Yeah, the series. I thought the game was immediately fun to watch. And I wasn't worried about guys like us or the people that watch this show particularly enjoying watching the series. But I was in. I was concerned about whether or not it could be competitive enough to be interesting to the masses. And the Pacers, once again, like, that's what I meant. Off the top, like, the job they've done, like, straight up injecting casual joy and intensity and beauty into this playoff run is just crazy, man.
- [37:56]
Ryan Seacrest
But the pace was there right away.
- [37:57]
Lester Holt
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- [39:49]
Ryan Seacrest
I feel like I have to give.
- [39:50]
Lester Holt
You something in return for karma. That's okay. I don't really have much in my purse. Oh, let's see. Hand sanitizer. It's lavender. I'm good. Seriously.
- [39:58]
Ryan Seacrest
Let me check this pocket.
- [39:59]
Lester Holt
Oh, mints? Really, I'm fine. Oh, I have raisins. I'm a mom. Wait, wait one sec. I've got cupcakes in the car.
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Ryan Seacrest
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Tom Brokaw
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- [41:33]
Lester Holt
We're going to head over to playback in about 10 minutes. I wanted to really quickly Jackson and I were going to have a quick little debate about this. Team USA versus Team World Adam Silver audible here. So Adam Silver says that they're going to structure the All Star Game as USA versus the World next year. This has been the latest in a long line of attempts from Adam Silver to try to make these guys compete. It's literally all he's trying to do. Get them get give them a reason to compete and they've been unsuccessful to this point. I'm skeptical as to whether or not this will work. I am intrigued by the matchup though.
- [42:13]
Ryan Seacrest
So matchup is kind of fun.
- [42:15]
Lester Holt
Obviously it gets tricky. There's some realities to how this could even work, but I want to start by just looking at the starting fives and just putting it together from there and kind of working around so we can all. I would argue that the world's top five is really obvious and that is just Luca Jokic. She goes Alexander, Giannis and Wemby.
- [42:44]
Ryan Seacrest
I agree wholeheartedly.
- [42:45]
Lester Holt
I don't think there's anybody else who has a case to get into that group who is the USA 5.
- [42:52]
Ryan Seacrest
I got to assume they run back some version of the Olympic five which is Steph Booker, LeBron, Katie and either Bam or Anthony Davis. Whoever is healthiest I would assume. But that's gotta be the first four even like I don't have no I do not care a single second about how old LeBron James is. Like you have to run that group out right?
- [43:14]
Lester Holt
I the tricky thing there is I wonder if there's some of those guys are going to get bumped because of just regular season performance. Like is Anthony Edwards gonna end up cramming his way into that, into that list, something like that. At least they have some practice playing without Jason Tatum.
- [43:32]
Ryan Seacrest
And and and is maybe the answer ever Devin Booker anyways.
- [43:35]
Lester Holt
But yeah, I this is where it gets tricky. The entire premise doesn't make a ton of sense because in terms of debating these two teams competing because the entire idea is that these guys aren't competing but like there is an undeniable like the Americans can run the floor a little bit better. I would argue that it gets a little tricky when they get stuck in the half court. Obviously Luca, Nicola, Jokic, Shake Yaldis Alexander. That's the three most surgical offensive players in the NBA at this point. I will say this though. I think splitting it up in putting Steph lebron and KD on the same team, do you think there's any chance that that brings the competitiveness or do you think those old dudes are like this isn't worth it?
- [44:23]
Ryan Seacrest
It's a great question. I think. I think bringing the fact that if the Olympics wasn't last summer, if the Olympics wasn't so recent, I would say and at this point it'll be one year later. So maybe it won't feel that recent at the time but I do feel like that had had such an energy to it the Olympics that I'm hoping that that carries over since you have that same core U.S. group. And I also think it's good to have specifically Giannis against playing against that team. It's not like Team USA versus France, Team USA versus World Team that has Giannis that is the most try hard player in the NBA, tried star, at least in the NBA. And so I'm hoping he and Wemby who seems to be taking things like Wemby tried last year personally, but like he's. He seems to be taking it a little seriously. I'm hoping that those two can set a little bit of a tone for for the World Team because you get Those two in transition, I mean they're. I mean that's as good of an All Star, you know, pairing as you could possibly come up with, honestly.
- [45:18]
Lester Holt
And if those dudes just run and Luca and Jokic just throw kick ahead passes, that could go a long way.
- [45:24]
Ryan Seacrest
You're telling me Luca throwing three quarter lobs to Wemby and Giannis all game. Like, come on.
- [45:29]
Lester Holt
But we all agree that like if those dudes really knuckle down, they're just going to beat the usa, right? Like, we, we agree on that. What's the case?
- [45:39]
Ryan Seacrest
I don't know. The case is the old man Avengers just won the gold and they. And when Steph is rolling, you know who's stopping staff in an All Star format? There's the other. Another wrinkle to this that I just thought of, by the way, is there is a chance that Giannis and Wemby are on the same team next year and if they are both starting the All Star game next to each other, going against the world team, then you're going to get. I think that would even ramp up the intensity a little bit more from their perspective.
- [46:06]
Lester Holt
But if the world's also going to play harder, to your point, I think that's where it gets pretty tough. I think we're talking about Steph will be. Will Steph be 38 yet? I think he will be. LeBron will literally be 41. AD will be 32 or 33, I think at that point. And KD I think, will be 38, if I remember correctly. It's pretty. It's an old group.
- [46:34]
Ryan Seacrest
It's an old group.
- [46:35]
Lester Holt
It's an old group. You obviously start to dip into the benches and it gets tricky too. But you mentioned this to me in the text. But like I do, there are some realities to like, how could you even logistically pull this off in terms of putting the format strange?
- [46:50]
Ryan Seacrest
The format's a little strange because we talk about the. The European and the overseas. Not just Europe, overseas stars winning all the MVPs recently and the feels like they're taking over the league is some of the times the conversation. But it's very top heavy. It's very top heavy. And so I'm wondering past guys 7, 8 or 9. Like I saw some graphics people are making up, putting Bogdanovic out there and like that's fine, good for Bogdanovic.
- [47:15]
Lester Holt
But right.
- [47:15]
Ryan Seacrest
Are we going to give that guy an All Star nod? Are we getting 15 guys from each team? Are we just hoping that we get a magic 8 and 8 like, logistically and because of the. The not in the moment importance, but the historical importance of All Star appearances and in terms of resume building and that kind of stuff, you can't just be gifting people All Star games. You can't.
- [47:37]
Lester Holt
To your point, you'd have to literally structure it in a way to where you gave All Star selections but didn't let dudes play. Like, you'd have to have a team, right? You'd have to have a Team USA roster that is like 17 players long, right? And then have, like, to your. You'd have to have, like, Bogdanovich come in and basically be a filler. I mean, when we start to go down the list, it's like we get to a lot of Americans before we get to other foreign players, like Tyrese Maxey. And I'm just going down the points per game list. Tyrese Maxey, Cade Cunningham, Jalen Brunson, Paolo Bonchero, Devin Booker, who, as we established, would probably have to come off the bench. LaMelo Ball, Damian Lillard, Anthony Davis, Kyrie Irving, Zion Williamson, Steph Curry, KARL Anthony Towns, LeBron James, Trae Young. Franz Wagner is the first foreign name to show up on that list. Yeah, like.
- [48:25]
Ryan Seacrest
Like, you'll get. Jamal Murray will finally get his All Star appearance. That's cool, I guess. Good for Jamal Murray.
- [48:30]
Lester Holt
But like, Jamal Murray up in there, I don't know.
- [48:33]
Ryan Seacrest
Like, the. After the top five of the. Of the world, it is a very strong top five. And they. It's. But it's very top after.
- [48:40]
Lester Holt
Franz Cam Thomas, American. Donovan Mitchell, American. Tyler Harrow, American. Joe Olympi, adopted American. Darren Fox, American. Zach Levine, American. John Morant, American. James Harden, American. Brandon Ingram, American. Demar derose, an American. Jalen Brown, American. Jaren Jackson, American. Norman Powell, American. Like, I'm. Jamal Murray is the next guy. Jamal Murray is the next guy at. He's 39th. And so this kind of goes to KD's, because KD was ranting about this a lot on social media. This idea that he, like, he thinks some of the talk with the world catching up is overblown. And there's a case for both sides. Like, I could argue both. Like, if I was arguing that the world's ahead, I could be like, we have, you know, the. The world has three of the top three players in the world right now. You know, four of the top four. Like, it's probably Yokit, Shay, Giannis and Luka are your. Are your top four in all likelihood. Right? But if I was arguing KD's point of view, I'd be like, it's just random because after you get past those top four guys, it's dominated by American players at that point. And obviously points per game isn't the perfect indicator there because there are guys like Sabonis who you're, you're probably not putting, you know, all the way down in 40 or something like that. But like, there are other, like, do everything types of guys that are going to be higher on that list. But there is a reality to like, once you get off of that top tier of superstars, it's a pretty steep drop off from there. So like I, I feel like Adam Silver, he did. He doesn't seem to have much of a plan for how this is going to work.
- [50:05]
Ryan Seacrest
Yeah, he doesn't seem to have much of a plan.
- [50:07]
Lester Holt
I admire the intention, in the intention of trying to get guys to compete. My thing is like, if you're not going to give them something to compete for, meaning, like, if you're not going to throw a bunch of money on the table, then really your only chance is the character of the players. Like, you need more Giannis is more, Wemby's more. Guys that come in are like, I'm playing hard tonight and if you get enough of those guys, it'll work. It's just like any pickup run, if you go play pickup and you get seven or eight pretty high level players who play super hard, like you can mix in some riff raff and it's going to work. But like, once you dip below the like mandatory minimum of like understanding of high level basketball, like it's going to fall off of a cliff. And like, similarly, with effort and energy and competitiveness, like, if you get like, like five or six dudes on the floor who are like really going for it, you'll have the other three or four, they're going to, or four or five, they're going to look at each other and they're going to be like, we're going to be embarrassed and look stupid if we don't also start playing hard. And so it's on the players. We need competitors. We talked about competitiveness at the top. You need competitors to come in and, and actually raise that level.
- [51:16]
Ryan Seacrest
Yeah. Last thing before we go. I do think that there is a chance that it works if it happens. And I think if, if this actually does happen, they really need just a stroke of good luck like they got. With the first year of the Elam ending, it was the first year after Kobe, the first year, and it was unbelievable. In the fourth quarter of that game and the fact that in the next couple years it wasn't. Because it wasn't even close in the fourth quarter, getting to the fourth quarter. Right. And so if by whatever stroke of luck you get a close game heading into whatever the fourth quarter of this new format will be, then you have it. I think if it's yet down to eight minutes left or a target score, these guys will turn on the country pride thing from the Olympics a little bit. But if it's not close at that point, then it's going to flop heavy.
- [51:58]
Lester Holt
So in all, like, if there's one thing I agree with, the Adam Silver approach, over the last few years, he's gotten really janky with everything, but it doesn't make Sense to play 48 minutes if the guys aren't going to play hard.
- [52:10]
Ryan Seacrest
Like, for sure.
- [52:11]
Lester Holt
But my thing is, like, if this doesn't work and it's more or less the same dynamic that we've seen in other years, I think you just go back to 48 minutes, you go back to east, west, you go back to your normal rosters, and you just leave it up to the players to compete. And, you know, I saw, we saw Kevin Durant, quote, tweet the, the thing with Stephen A. Smith when he was like, saying, like, it's going to be, like, basically like saying it's going to be something that these players will be remembered for as like, the players who killed the alt Star game. And Katie's like, this is dramatic. I. I agree with Katie in that regard. Like, you know what I think about when I think about the NBA, I think about what we saw tonight. I think about what we've seen in this playoff run. I think about the dozens and dozens and dozens of incredible regular season moments that we get every year. Crazy games, crazy star performances, game winners, showdowns between rivalries. Like, that's the stuff that I think about. Like, even when the All Star Game was better, it was pretty far down the list of things that I cared about. And so, like, the idea that, like, this is the legacy of this generation, I think. I think is foolishness. I think. I think Adam Silver owes it to the league to try a few more ways. But if he. If he backed out and he was just like, look, the All Star Game's the All Star Game. I'm leaving it as is. I. I would respect that, too. All right, guys, that's all we have for YouTube tonight. We are headed over to playback. The first thing we do when we get over there is we're rewatching that fourth quarter, so we're going to get over there, we're going to watch some film, we'll take some callers, we'll take some questions again at Playback TV Hoops tonight for the YouTube audience. I will be back tomorrow morning with a film breakdown. I'm also going to be doing something else on Saturday, but keep an eye on my Twitter feed for that. But tomorrow morning a film breakdown and then obviously we will be back live after game two on Sunday. I will see you guys then. What's up guys? As always, I appreciate you for listening to and supporting Hoops tonight. It would actually be really helpful for us if you guys take a second and leave a rating and a review. As always, I appreciate you guys supporting us, but if you could take a minute to do that, I'd really appreciate.
- [54:09]
Ryan Seacrest
It.
- [54:11]
Lester Holt
The Volume AI is redefining what's possible for your business. With more unique challenges to solve and higher stakes than ever, Microsoft helps you stay ahead. Our trustworthy AI tools and guidance can empower leaders like you to drive greater impact. And with Azure's simplified platform management, we're helping businesses go further and faster by unlocking up to 150% improved output. Whatever challenges come next, let Microsoft help you keep pushing forward. For more details, visit Microsoft.com challengers Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway, now through June 24. Score hot summer savings and earn four times the points. Look for in store tags on items like Starbucks ground coffee, Red Bull energy.
- [54:54]
Ryan Seacrest
Drinks, Spam, Classic Planet Oat milk, Charmin bath tissue, Totino's pizza rolls and Frito Lay chips.
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Lester Holt
Then clip the offer in the app for automatic event long savings. Shop in store or online for drive up and go pickup or delivery subject to availability restrictions apply. Visit Albertsons or Safeway.com for more details. T Mobile stats are as impressive as your favorite athlete's highlight reel because T Mobile helps keep you connected from the heart of Portland to right where you are on America's largest 5G network switch. Now keep your phone and T Mobile will pay it off up to $800 per line via prepaid card. Visit your local T Mobile location or learn more@t mobile.com backslash keepandswitch up to 4 lines via virtual prepaid card. Allow 15 days qualifying unlock device credit.
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Ryan Seacrest
Service report in 90 plus days device.
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Lester Holt
Knowledgeable carrier and timely redemption required Card is no cash access and expires in six months.
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Ryan Seacrest
New out of nowhere obstacles New all or nothing moments New Less than likely triumphs Season two of the Unshakeables podcast has it all. Hi, I'm Ben Walter, CEO of Chase for Business and host of the show. We're excited to bring you more inspiring stories from small business owners who share the what are we gonna do? Moments that ended up changing everything. Listen wherever you get your podcasts. Chase Mobile app is available for select mobile devices. Message and data rates may apply. JPMorgan Chase Bank NA Member FDIC Copyright 2025 JP Morgan Chase & Co. This is an iHeart pod.