← The Herd with Colin Cowherd
The Herd with Colin Cowherd
Hoops Tonight - Luka Doncic & Austin Reaves partnership, Lakers trade options, Josh Giddey & Bulls | NBA Mailbag
00:46:43
Loading summary
Transcript27 lines
- [00:00]
Jason
This is an iHeart podcast. Look, if you smoke or dip, I'm going to give you a few good reasons to try Zyn Nicotine Pouches. First, Zyn is America's number one nicotine pouch brand and Zyn offers an unbelievable rewards program. There's a lot of options for nicotine satisfaction, but there's only one Zen. Visit zen.com find to find Zen at a store near you. Again that zen.com find zen spelled z y N. This product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical.
- [00:39]
Sponsor Announcer
This podcast is sponsored by PayPal. Okay, let's talk holiday shopping. When you want to make the most of your Money, head to PayPal's app before you check out. They give you the flexibility to pay in four no fees, no interest. And this is big. Bigger than the 12 foot snowman on your lawn right now. You can get 5% cash back when you pay later with PayPal. So whether it's the must have merch or for that signed jersey you've been eyeing, PayPal helps you make the most of your money this holiday. Save this offer in the PayPal app expires 1231.
- [01:13]
Sponsor Legal/Details
See paypal.com promoterms Subject to approval. Learn more at paypal.com payin4paypal inc.nmls910457 there's.
- [01:24]
Anabe Sofa Advertiser
Nothing like sinking into luxury. Anabe sofas combine ultimate comfort and design at an affordable price. Annabe has designed the only fully machine washable sofa from top to bottom. The stain resistant performance fabric, slipcovers and cloud like frame duvet can go straight into your wash. Perfect for anyone with kids, pets or anyone who loves an easy to clean spotless sofa. With a modular design and changeable slipcovers, you can customize your sofa to fit any space and style. Whether you need a single chair, loveseat or a luxuriously large sectional, Anna Bay has you covered. Visit washablesofas.com to upgrade your home. Sofas start at just $699 and right now get early access to Black Friday savings up to 60% off store wide with a 30 day money back guarantee. Shop now@washablesofas.com Add a little to your life. Offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.
- [02:24]
Jason
I turned off news altogether.
- [02:27]
Sponsor Announcer
I hate to say it, but I.
- [02:28]
Jenna Kim Jones
Don'T trust much of anything.
- [02:31]
Jason
It's the rage bait. It feels like it's trying to divide people. If we got clear facts, maybe we can calm down a little. NBC News brings you clear reporting. Let's meet at the facts. Let's Move forward from there. NBC News reporting for America.
- [02:54]
Sponsor Announcer
Hi, it's Colin from the Colin Coward Podcast. I've been around long enough to know quality when I see it. Or in this case, when I taste it. Tito's handmade vodka. Good stuff. No flash, no gimmick. Smooth, clean tasting. Made the right way. Tito's made in Austin, Texas. Real attention to detail. I like to keep it simple. Tito's soda, one lime. Lot of ice. Refreshing, easy. Summer, winter, spring. Totally versatile. Always works. Listen, baseball season's here. The perfect time to kick back with some Tito's. It's what I pour. You should too. Distilled and bottled by 5th Generation Inc. Austin, Texas. 40% alcohol by volume. Savor responsibly the volume.
- [03:50]
Jason
All right. Welcome to Hoops Tonight here at the Volume. Happy Friday, everybody. Hope all of you guys had an incredible week. It is Mailbag day. We're going to be breaking down a bunch of stuff from around the league. Some Rockets, some Hawks, some Magic. We're going to get into some Lakers and Warriors stuff. A bunch of stuff all around the league. I have a fun project for from a question that we had regarding the concept of a foundational superstar skill. We had been talking about this with respect to John Morant and him just kind of not fulfilling his potential. I want to look at the players around the league that I think have at least that potential based on that foundational superstar trait. Obviously some of those guys have underachieved, but kind of a fun thought exercise towards the tail end of the show. Lots of stuff to get into from around the league today. You guys know the drill before we get started, subscribe to the Hoops Tonight YouTube channel so you don't miss any more of our videos. Follow me on twitter@_jasonlt so you guys don't miss show announcements. Don't forget about our podcast feed wherever you get your podcast on our Hoops Tonight. It's also super helpful if you leave a rating and a review on that front. Jackson's doing incredible work on our social media feeds on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook and TikTok. Make sure you guys follow us there for content throughout the rest of the season. And last but not least, if you guys want to get questions into our mailbag next Friday, just find our full episodes on YouTube and drop them in the comments. Mailbag Colonial Write your question and we'll get to them on Fridays. One last quick announcement before we get started. We were going to start our playback series tonight. We're going to be doing Watch Alongs and we were going to be starting with Nuggets warriors tonight, but with Steph Curry out, we're going to do a different game instead. Not sure what that one will be yet. I will let you guys know, but what that means is that our debut will actually be for Lakers Hawks on Saturday. So I think that's a 4pm Pacific start if I remember correctly. So on tomorrow night come hang out on playback. We'll watch the Lakers versus the Hawks, who are 2 and 1 without Trey Young. So it'll be an interesting game for us to kick that off. All right, let's talk some basketball. First question is a Lakers question. Hey Jason, Love the show. Best basketball podcast in the game right now. Thank you for the kind words. My question is this. Do you think the Lakers front office views Austin Reeves as Luke's long term running mate or as more of a potential trade asset to secure a player that might fit better alongside Luca? Personally, I love watching them play together, but with the recent surge from AR15, I can't help but wonder what he would look like running his own team as maybe a second option to a dynamic front court player. What team slash players do you think would be good targets if AR were signed and traded for the next couple of seasons? So you know, when I look at first of all, I think it's far more likely than not that Austin stays with the Lakers regardless of what happens in the LeBron Austin Luca configuration. The Austin Luca configuration has looked so good that I think that that's essentially a sneak peek of what things will look like after LeBron James retires. I think Austin was a little bit more of a question mark in that department before this season, mainly because he struggled so much against athleticism in the Timberwolves playoff series. And just there was that question mark of like, what about the idea of building your starting lineup around two lesser athletes? Right. But the problem is is Austin's become clearly so good. I think he's averaging what, 31 and 9 on like 65% true shooting to start the season. He's become so good that any upside you get from targeting a different type of secondary star off of Luka, like let's say you find a better athlete to play alongside Luca, who's a little bit more of a two way player. The chasm between whoever that guy is in Austin Reeves as an offensive player right now is going to be so big that it doesn't really justify the alternative. Like yeah, you don't necessarily want to build your starting lineup around two non athletes but if you have two offensive players that are that good in the lineup, it actually buys you more flexibility with the other guys. You can get away with lineups that have really defensive focused talent in the other three positions when your main offensive players are that good. So overall, I think Austin has played so well that he's essentially put himself in the position where he looks like the obvious long term fit alongside Luka. Any downsides with athleticism are made up for by the fact that Austin's legitimately been one of the top 15 players in the NBA to start the season. Now, obviously it's too small of a sample size to really give him that credit in the big picture, but he to me, looks like definitively one of the top 30 or so players in the NBA and a guy that I think makes a lot of sense long term next to Luka. Now that could change if it were to change, which again, I don't think it will. But if that were to change, the kinds of teams that I think makes sense for Austin are once again teams that have a lot of athleticism to anchor him and that need refined offensive skills. So I'd be looking at teams like the Minnesota Timberwolves, teams like the Orlando Magic as examples of teams that I think Austin would be able to step in and immediately help. Teams where he wouldn't be asked to be the primary point of attack defender like he was many times last year in the past. I think it would make a lot of sense for Austin in those constructs. All right, next question. What's your take on the Warrior struggles? So far they seem to be relatively the same team from last year with a high ceiling but an inability to string wins together consistently. The Steve Kerr detractors are back, citing his four guard lineups as a culprit. But I'm curious as to your thoughts. Are they destined for a fight to stay out of the plan again this year? Thanks so much. Love your show and you're in peak form this season. Thank you so much for the kind words. I really appreciate that. I, I take, I look at each season as an opportunity to get better. I feel like each year we get a little bit better at doing this job. It's not just me too. It's the whole team and everything that we do behind the scenes. Most of this to me is just the warriors succumbing to a brutal early season schedule. Tons of back to backs, some tough particular nights in the back to backs where you're playing tough teams to play when you don't have your legs underneath you or when you have guys missing, missing time for one reason or another, I'm not going to sit here and pretend like everything's absolutely fine. If you look at some of the other top records in the league, teams like Oklahoma City, teams like the Lakers, teams like the Pistons, teams like the spurs, all four of those teams literally haven't seen a single minute of play from their second best player. Between J Dub and LeBron and Jaden Ivy and Deer and Fox, and they're stacking wins anyway. Teams like Oklahoma City and the Lakers have been down guys deeper in the rotation as well, and they just keep winning. So I'm not going to sit here and pretend like it's a great sign that you're where you're at given the injuries and given the schedule. But there's context there, right? Like the warriors should have won the Pacers game. They were up by 11 halfway through the fourth quarter. They just blew it. And Steph had a bad night. It happens. The Kings game, literally you sit everybody again, like certain teams will find ways to win that game, but that's a tough game on the road and like it could go either way. It was a close game. You had a shot, you didn't pull it out. And the Bucks and Blazers games, I thought that they showed a little bit of Golden State's issues, specifically with handling downhill athletes that can break their point of attack defense and spray out to shooters. They struggled with dribble penetration in both of those games. I think that those are certainly things to keep an eye on, but I also thought they were all that they were like. I also thought they were like textbook games where the warriors were not particularly engaged athletically. Overall, I'm still higher on Golden State than I was to start the season. There's still really strong lineup data. The Steph Draymond Jimmy Butler trio is plus 13 net to start the season. Elite on both ends of the floor. That's a really strong number and ultimately in any given serious basketball situation, those three guys are going to be on the floor. And I talked about this the other day, but there's some interesting data with the way that Steve Kerr structured the lineups like him shifting towards using Moses Moody and Brandon Pajemski as primarily bench guys. That's worked. The starting lineup built around Kaminga and his stretch big has worked really well because Kaminga's improved read and react play still turning the ball over a little too much, but he's basically a 50, 40, 80 guy to start the season and he's been playing really well and that lineup's been scoring really well and defending really well. And then they have these younger guys that come in off the bench and they gun in those situations, which is working for them. So, like, to me, classic case of like, never get too high, never get too low. When it comes to the regular season, you're always a good week or a bad week away from a big move in the standings. Like, you're two games back of the two seed right now. That could be literally. Lakers drop a couple games on the road trip, spurs drop another game. You go three and oh, over a week, and all of a sudden you're the three seed and everyone's talking about how amazing you are. So, like, again, this is, this is the natural kind of ebb and flow of the regular season. I don't want to pretend that it's awesome that you're sitting at 5 and 4, but there's some strong indicators that you're better than your record looks at this point in time. Next question. Love the show and the game reactions. Who is the most athletic dude in the league right now, in your opinion? I personally think it's Amen Thompson. He's just so impressive and it's like every time he touches the ball, he just does some freak athletic thing. Secondarily, who do you think is the most athletic player ever? Personally, I think it's Braun, for obvious reasons. Thanks. Love the show. I agree with you on both counts here. The. With LeBron in the all time context, there's a, you know, there's a. There have been a lot of guys who have come close. Giannis I think comes close for his size. Zion Williamson I think comes close. There are guys that come close, but to me, LeBron, when you watch clips of him from like 2009 with, with the chase down blocks, the transition dunks, some of the stuff he was doing in the half court off of like counter moves and stuff, there was a level of like change of direction, vertical pop strength and power, straight line speed. He had a dunk with Miami, I believe in. It was like 2012, I think, if I remember correctly, where he tomahawked it from damn near the free throw line. And by the time he landed, he landed on two feet. And by the time he landed, it was almost at the stanchion. Like, it was like a long jump of damn near 20ft on the, on the dunk. Like the, the LeBron. I think we are so distant from it now because it's been a decade and a half, but we're LeBron was at his peak athletically. He just moved different than any player ever in the history of, of the NBA. So I think he's clearly the best athlete all time. Amend Thompson the couple of things that stand out to me, the changing of direction when guys are still slowing down. This is kind of a thing that has allowed him to be a great dribble drive guy and it's why he projects to be a very good offensive player in the long run, because he can combine it with the handle. He's got very good control of his body with footwork and dribble combinations in order to make his counter moves. But he can drive at you hard to the right and like while you're stopping because he's getting ready to counter to the left. He's already passed you to the left before you even slow your body down and try to change direction. He literally looks like he's moving at a completely different speed compared to the other guys at his position. Obviously doesn't bring the size and power that you see from some of the bigger guys in the league. But he's also not, you know, Davion Mitchell either. He's not a tiny guard. He is a good big wing with legitimate NBA size for the position who moves like the quickest guards in the league. And it just, it's an awesome foundational trait for him as a big picture scorer in this league. Next question. Atlanta seems to be rolling along without Trey. It's definitely not perfect right now, but it seems to indicate Trey's value isn't as high as we assume, given what we've seen. What scenarios can you foresee playing out this season for Atlanta and what is most likely, in your opinion? This is tricky because they're two and one without Trey. The Orlando wins a nice win, but it's like also Orlando. We're going to talk about them in a little bit. They play some of the stupidest offense I've ever seen in the modern NBA. They're defending better. This has been back when Trey was healthy. There was this kind of weird on off thing going on with Trey where they were like almost Damn near a 1:30 defensive rating when Trey was on the floor and then they would become a good defense when Trey was off. I don't blame Trey solely for that. I watched a bunch of those games and in the starting lineup there were guys not named Trey that weren't playing as well defensively in those minutes as they were capable of. If anything, Trey going off the floor forces them to win. With defense because they don't have the level of offensive skill. And so they just lock in and get more engaged with those groups. Certainly with Trey off the floor, there's an increase in defensive talent. This is a defense to transition team. They force a lot of turnovers, they run the floor off of those situations. There's a certain amount of value in that. We talked a lot about this this summer, winning on the margins, and that can be something that carries you over the course of the regular season. But I don't think this team has any potential to accomplish anything at all whatsoever without the advantage creation of Trae Young. And so ultimately, to me, what's exciting about the Hawks is combining this version of the team, this lanky, fast run the floor, force turnovers, play, play that transition up and down basketball, combining that with Trey's half court ability to set you up with quality opportunities. And so obviously the knee spring keeps him out for so long that it's going to give us this massive sample size. And there's going to be some highs. There's going to be some moments where Jalen Johnson has a big night. Zachary Ricochet had a huge night the other day. There's going to be some big nights where it's going to look exciting. But ultimately you can't win shit in the NBA if you don't have a legitimate advantage creator. And Trey's the only guy on the team who could do that. And so I still want to see a lot more reps with Trey alongside a healthy version of this team. And I hope we get to see it before they do something like trade him. Now, who knows, Maybe the team is just sick of Trey and they end up making that sort of decision. But so I'm cautiously optimistic that they'll just keep afloat in the standings by winning on the margins and then Trey will come back and then they'll play better defense when Trey's on the floor and they'll start to show some of that upside that we got all excited about over the summer. Today's show is brought to you by our new presenting sponsor, Hard Rock Bet. The NBA season is heating up. College basketball is back. And every night is a shot to score a major bucket on Hard Rock Bet. You're home for hoops action all season long. If you haven't tried your first bet on Hard Rock Bet yet, there's still time for you to get $150 in bonus bets. If you win, just place a $5 bet. And if it hits, you get not only your winnings but $150 in extra bonus bets. And if you're looking for an edge before you lock in, check out the Hard Rock Bet Stats Hub. It's loaded with trends, streaks and stats to help guide your picks. Numbers don't lie, and neither does the data in there. Check out the Stats Hub now. Get the edge and bet with confidence. The Hard Rock Bet Sportsbook app is the only legal sportsbook for whenever you're in Florida, and it's also live in Arizona, Ohio, New Jersey, Indiana, Tennessee, Virginia, Illinois and Colorado. Coming soon to more states too. Plus, Hard Rock Bet offers new promos every single day. So whenever you're listening, just open the app and check out what you've got. Any day of the week, download the Hard Rock Bet apple and make your first deposit payable and bonus bets. Not a cash offer offered by the Seminole Tribe of Florida in Florida. Offered by Seminole Hard Rock Digital LLC in all other states. Must be 21 plus and physically present in Arizona, Colorado, Florida, Illinois, Indiana, New Jersey, Ohio, Tennessee or Virginia. To play terms and conditions apply. Concerned about gambling in Florida? Call 1833-playwise in Indiana. If you or someone you know has a gambling problem and wants help, call 1-800-9 with it gambling problem, call 1-800- gambler in Arizona, Colorado, Illinois, New Jersey, Ohio, Tennessee or Virginia. If you're a smoker or dipper ready to make a change, you really only need one good reason. But with Zynn Nicotine Pouches you'll discover many good reasons. Zynn is America's number one nicotine pouch brand. Plus Zynn offers a robust rewards program. There are lots of options when it comes to nicotine satisfaction, but there's only one Zyn. Check out zyn.com find to find Zyn at a store near you. Warning. This product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical.
- [20:49]
Anabe Sofa Advertiser
There's nothing like sinking into luxury. Anabe sofas combine ultimate comfort and design at an affordable price. Annabe has designed the only fully machine washable sofa. From top to bottom, the stain resistant performance fabric slipcovers and cloud like frame duvet can go straight into your wash. Perfect for anyone with kids, pets or anyone who loves an easy to clean spotless sofa. With a modular design and changeable slipcovers, you can customize your sofa to fit any space and style. Whether you need a single chair, loveseat or a luxuriously large sectional, Annabe has you covered. Visit washablesofas.com to upgrade your home. Sofas start at just $699. And right now get early access to Black Friday savings up to 60% off store wide with a 30 day money back guarantee. Shop now@washablesofas.com Add a little to your life. Offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.
- [21:49]
Sponsor Announcer
This podcast is sponsored by PayPal. Okay, let's talk holiday shopping. When you want to make the most of your Money, head to PayPal's app before you check out. They give you the flexibility to pay in four no fees, no interest. And this is big. Bigger than the 12 foot snowman on your lawn right now. You can get 5% cash back when you pay later with PayPal. So whether it's the must have merch or for that signed jersey you've been eyeing, PayPal helps you make the most of your money this holiday. Save this offer in the PayPal app.
- [22:22]
Sponsor Legal/Details
Expires 1231 see paypal.com promoterms subject to approval. Learn more at paypal.com payin4paypal inc.nmls910457 Running a business is hard enough, so why make it harder? With a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other, one for sales, another for inventory, a separate one for accounting. Before you know it, you are drowning in software. Instead of growing your business, this is where Odoo comes in. Odoo is the only business software you'll ever need. It's an all in one fully integrated platform that handles everything CRM, accounting, inventory, E commerce, HR and more. No more app overload, no more juggling logins. Just one seamless system that makes work easier. And the best part? Odoo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost. It's built to grow with your business, whether you are just starting out or already scaling up. Plus, it's easy to use, customizable and designed to streamline every process so you can focus on what really matters running your business. Thousands of businesses have made the switch, so why not you try Odoo for free@odoo.com that's o d o o.com breaking news everybody.
- [23:37]
Jenna Kim Jones
Not everything is terrible. I repeat, not everything is terrible. The Ripple Effect with Jenna Kim Jones is proof that the Internet, it hasn't ruined humanity entirely. It's hosted by me, Jenna. I'm a comedian, so you know it's gonna be funny and uplifting. Of course, each episode of the Ripple Effect features real stories of kindness, of barbers changing more than just their client's haircut, of the secret life, of leftover hotel soap, of vending machines, that dispense just the help that someone might need. It's like magic, you guys. So put down your Doom scroller and pick up your faith in humanity and join me, Jenna for the rest of Ripple Effect. It's a reminder that you can start a ripple that changes everything. You really can. Listen to the Ripple Effect with Jenna Kim Jones Starting November 11th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [24:32]
Jason
Hi Jason, what's up? I was curious about some things which would be better for the Lakers. A trade for Wiggins which may require Rui in a first or trade for Dylan Brooks where you might be able to keep Rui in a first. What do you think about a Miles a Miles Bridges trade slash fit? What do you think about a do the arrow with rim pressure and athleticism to help the Lakers psu? Trevor and Yovon linking up was a dream come true. So for those of you guys who don't know, on Thursday mornings we're doing live shows, me and Trevor Lane and Yovon Buha for a show called the Lakers Collective. We did our third episode yesterday. It's just on YouTube. Wherever you find channels under Lakers Collective, we're just doing basically weekly check ins on the Lakers. You guys can check that out there. A couple things, a lot of different things to get into with what you said. A Duthie arrow, he's not going to play this year any meaningful minutes unless guys are. Unless it's, you know, kind of similar to what happened the other night in Portland where you have four key rotation guys out of the lineup like I as as exciting as a dutiero's athleticism is and if he can stay healthy, he certainly has the potential to be a very good NBA role player. I just think that it's he's just not going to be a factor in this season so we can kind of just set him off to the side. The trading for Ru, the trading Rui piece, I want to start specifically focusing on Rui. We talked earlier about how Austin with LeBron out has clearly demonstrated himself as the partner for Luca long term as like the secondary ball handler. Right. I would also argue that Rui with LeBron out has demonstrated a really good option as their long term power forward. And the issue is is LeBron will retire at some point in the next few years. And so if you trade Rui, I don't necessarily like the idea of trading Rui at this point because of how good he has looked at the power forward position in the long term. So for Instance, if you told me just for this season, if there was no additional basketball, the world ends the summer of 2026, what should the Lakers do? I'd be like, trade Rui for Andrew Wiggins. When LeBron comes back, Rui is going to suddenly have the majority of his minutes shift to the three. That exposes his limitations as a perimeter defender more. I could see him losing a lot of those minutes to guys like Jake Laravia and Marcus Smart. So in the short term, I'm not sure that's the best use of Rui. Andrew Wiggins, by the way, is having a great year in Miami. And one of the things Wiggins is such a dynamic athlete, he is such a good rebounder for his position, he is such a good perimeter defender for his position while also having a great catch and shoot season. He's doing a lot of work off the bounce as a slasher as well. Andrew Wiggins is a really good basketball player at a position group of need at the small forward position. However, Andrew's entering entering into his early 30s and so it's a little bit trickier in terms of whether or not he makes sense as a long term fit alongside Austin and Luca. Flip the script to a guy like Herb Jones if you make a move. Flipping Rui for Herb Jones. Now you're talking about a guy where it's like Herb Jones is at the age in his mid-20s, where it actually makes sense for him to be the starting three in the future alongside Luka and Austin. So like essentially to me, Rui makes sense as the starting four long term. So I don't want to trade Rui unless you're getting another starter. That makes sense long term. So for instance, let's say it's for a. Let's say you don't believe in Ayton for some reason if it's for a center or if it's for a guy like Herb Jones who can play the three long term, I think that makes sense. As much as I every time I watch Andrew Wiggins, I'm like, this guy would literally vault the Lakers into the top tier of contenders. If you told me they had Ayton, LeBron, Wiggins, Austin and Luca, I put that team every bit as good as Denver and Oklahoma City. That's how much I believe in Andrew Wiggins as a fit with the Los Angeles Lakers. But that's a perfect world where you don't have to think about the future. And I totally understand why the Lakers would look at that situation and go, why would we give up Rui in draft compensation for a player in his 30s who would help us a lot this year. But then as soon as LeBron retires, there's a version of the team where suddenly you have Luka and Austin and then you have some older, less effective version of Andrew Wiggins in a big gaping hole at the power forward spot. I can see why the Lakers would look at that and be like, eh, not a great move. So I think, I think Rui has played so well to start the season and the numbers are like legitimately insane. He's like 16 for 23 on catch and shoot threes. When he's unguarded, he's like 17 for 24 on mid range jump shots. He's damn near 70% at the rim. He's been converting spot ups at 1.56 points per possession, which leads the entire NBA. Rui has been so good to start the season that he makes sense as a long term four. So you cannot trade him unless you get a better version of a long term starting three. The only guy I can think of right now at that, at that position that makes sense is a guy like Herb Jones, Dylan Brooks, that sort of thing discounted move for a guy like you that I don't think Dylan Brooks is in the same caliber of, of all around kind of like dynamic athletic wing that a guy like Andrew Wiggins or Herb Jones is. But he's reasonably close and if you can get him for cheap, I think he makes the Lakers better. I certainly think that would be a, a decent move. But for Dylan Brooks, I think I would want to get it done for cheap if that makes sense. Or for less expensive I should say. What the heck is wrong with the Magic? The team looks terrible. They're playing tier so far was projected around 50 plus wins early on in the season. I'm right there with you. I was of the opinion that Matt, that the Orlando Magic had like the best chance to keep up with Cleveland. I want to say what I said in the warriors segment. Don't get too high, don't get too low. In the NBA regular season. This Magic team is so stacked with talent that they could go on a two week run where they go 7 and 1 and they could be right back at the top of the Eastern Conference in that conversation. And then another couple of weeks where they go, you know, eight and three or a month where they go eight and three and suddenly they're, you know, the two seed, three seed again. So like I don't want to sit here and act as Though the season is over just because the Magic looked poor to start the season. That said, I did express some concern before the year about how even though I love the Desmond Bain fit because he specifically addresses some needs for this team, I was concerned that the Orlando Magic, led by Jamal Mosley, wouldn't use him properly. And that fear came to fruition almost immediately to start this season. And when you dig into it, they're actually kind of using Bane and Paolo as like, your turn, my turn. Superstars I talked about. I can't even remember which game it was, but I, I did a Orlando Magic segment where they lost a game, but I thought they took a step forward on offense and it was a game. It was against the Sixers and it was a game where they ran like seven possessions of Bane. Paolo inverted pick and roll where Paolo was the handler. And I broke down in detail how they got great looks every single time down the floor. And then the other day I'm watching Hawks Magic and they don't run it a single time in the first half. Not a single time. And I'm sitting there and I'm like, this is the problem. There's no intentionality to the offense. There's no, here's our best offensive players, here's what they're great at, here's how we can get them to work in conjunction with each other, and here's where the defense is vulnerable. Here are our targets, here are ways that we can attack this particular defense to get great looks for this particular lineup. There's no intentionality to what the Orlando Magic do. They literally just go play basketball. And, you know, I put a good amount of this blame on Paolo. I've been kind of fascinated by this idea, the concept of like organization versus natural high IQ basketball. I was listening to Steph kind of break this down in his, in his interview that he did on the Mind the Game podcast. The warriors run sets, but there's also a lot of natural read and react basketball that they do on a possession to possession basis that almost looks like sets because they are so smart that they all just play a natural style of basketball that involves ball and player movement and screening and cutting and it gets all these great easy opportunities. And one of the things I'm noticing with Paolo, and this isn't a death sentence and I'll get into why in a minute, but one of the things I'm noticing with Paolo is his natural inclination is to play pickup basketball. To play, Let me call for a random guard screen here. Let me play ISO. Let Me get into my bag type of basketball. Paulo does not play with intentionality on the offensive end of the floor. What that means is, is the Orlando Magic, as currently constructed, desperately needs structure. They need a head coach because they're not the warriors and they're not going to naturally play with ball and player movement and screening and cutting. They need a coach that's going to come in and heavily implement structure so that guys like Paulo are not left to their own devices. Because if they're left to their own devices, there's going to be a lot of wasted possessions that don't have that level of intentionality. Desmond Bain hasn't been very good over the course of the last couple of weeks. And I think a big part of that is in this particular situation, surrounded by the freelance basketball that isn't producing quality opportunities, he's not successful. Desmond Bain isn't an ISO guy. Desmond Bain isn't a guy that's going to be transcendently great with his individual gifts. He is a player that thrives in structure. He thrives in structure because he's a player that is excellent playing off of screens. But if you have him running off of the wrong types of screens with screening partners who are not threats in poor spacing, it limits his success in those situations. Why I've been asking for the Palo Bain inverted pick and roll so much is because it's a simple piece of structure that consistently will put the defense in the bind with two players that are legitimate threats. If you switch, Paolo's going to have a huge size advantage that he's going to be able to take for close range baskets around the basket. If you don't, Paolo's going to get downhill. If you hedge and recover, Desmond Bain's going to get easy closeouts where he's going to thrive. And we broke that down in detail in that Sixers game is an example of where they got great shots every single time down the floor. But ultimately, the problem here is they are a team that does not play with intentionality on offense. They are left to their own devices. Too often in the natural inclinations of their players on the floor when left to their own devices, is to be in poor spacing, to make poor decisions in terms of who to screen for who to play ISO ball to make the game more difficult than it needs to be. And so ultimately, I don't think, I don't think they're going to be as bad as they've looked. I think they're too talented. They're so damn talented that they're going to find a lot of ways to win games just simply based on paper skill, like on paper town. But if this magic team is ever going to reach their goals, it's going to require a coaching change towards a play, towards a guy who brings enormous structure to the offense. It's what they need. These guys need to be told what to do in order to thrive on the offensive end of the four. Hey Jason, love the show. I'm an Australian and would love to know if this Josh Giddy emergence is a real thing or not. After Patty Mills and that generation of Australian basketballers have gotten older, we need a new leader of the national team. Is it possible it could be an all star level? He could be at an all star level where he does have to improve his game to become a top 20 player in the league and if that ceiling even exists. So the, the numbers are insane. I think he's at what, 23, 10 and 9 to start the season. He's been shooting well on catch and shoot jumpers for a couple years now, which has made him more dynamic as an off ball player. I think he deserves a lot of credit for the pace that they've been playing at with kick ahead passes and just bringing the ball up with speed and making early dribble drive attacks and possessions that get the defense into rotation. I saw, you know, and I don't take this seriously, it's a straw man. But like I saw, you know, some Bulls fans comparing him to Luca earlier, there's a huge gap in shot making, like a gigantic, enormous gap. And shot making. Like every time Josh Giddy shoots out of pick and roll, he's getting just 0.69 points per shot attempt. Like this is not a guy that is a surgical shot maker the way that Luka Doncic is. So I don't really look at him like that, but he does fit the mold of that like typical big bodied playmaker that can be methodical on his drives in terms of putting defenders in jail and waiting for defenders to react and making the appropriate kick out passes. I do look at him as that offensive engine archetype that generates a lot of advantages that greases the wheels for an entire offense. Again, I mentioned the pace stuff. It can be Tyrese Halliburton esque sometimes with his ability to throw kickhead passes and get the, the offense running up and down the floor. I think in order for him to get to that all star level. Because here's the thing, right now as a team, the Bulls are shooting really, really well from three and I'm not sure how much longer they'll be able to maintain that, although they are generating a good amount of good looks for good shooters. But we'll see how long they can maintain their three point shooting to this point in the season. A big part of why they're 6 and 12 is because of Nicole Vucevich, who's shooting literally 7 for 10 from the field in clutch situations, including the game winner that he hit the other night in the Philadelphia 76ers game. Right. So like there's, there's a certain amount of. Some circumstances are going right for them and things will get tougher. Guys will cool off, things will get more into half court situations. Teams will scout Chicago as a team that likes to run a ton and they will start to be prepared for that with their transition defense and stopping the ball. And that'll just put more of a heavy emphasis on things like Josh Giddy's shot making and guys like modest Bouz Ellis hitting catch and shoot threes and certain little weak points that have come up at various points this season. They've been a middle of the pack half court offense, right? So like those are the kinds of things that I think will need to be worked out in order for them to sustain success. But ultimately Giddey has looked better. He's improved as a scorer, he's improved as a catch and shoot player. He is shown that he can run an offense at a high level. I just think there's a pretty big gap between him and the offensive engines at the top of the league and he needs to close that gap in order to become an all star or become the kind of guy that can be the best offensive engine on a serious playoff threat type of team. What's up Jason? Big fan. One thing I've noticed while watching the NBA this season is I feel like I'm seeing way more zone than I typically see in the NBA. I never really thought I'd see this much zone again with every everybody being such good shooters. Why do you think teams are showing zones so much now and do you think teams are any team's? Zones are translatable to the playoffs. So a couple things. Zone at the NBA level does look different than it does at like the college level. At the college level they're always playing the middle of the floor more aggressively and it's primarily designed to shut down the paint and it's pretty easy to just swing the ball around the perimeter and get catch and shoot three point shot looks against a traditional Kind of two, three zone. Most two, three zones in the NBA are rangy and they kind of are almost more like 4:1 zones. Where the wings and the top are, are more keyed in on the three point line. The big is staying back and they're kind of leaving the middle of the floor open. It's ba. It's more designed to try to give up like mid range jump shots and to contain dribble penetration. So like that. It does look a little bit different at the NBA level. But the reason why we're seeing so much of it is pretty simple. It's the same reason why we're seeing a lot of transition pushes from teams like Miami, teams like Chicago, teams like Portland. It's a copycat league. If you're a smart person and you're competitive, then you're always looking at the people around you in your industry that are having success and you're going, why are they having success? And you're thinking like what are they doing? What can I do to try to be more like them? Right? And NBA coaches that are watching Indiana have the success that they had last year in the postseason, that are watching Oklahoma City have the success that they had in the postseason, that are watching teams like Denver have success with Zone in the postseason, you're seeing all these teams go. Mixing up coverages with zone is working, pushing the pace and playing in transition a ton is working, ball pressure is working. And so all of these coaches around the league are essentially trying to copy that for good reason, because they want to have success similar to the teams that have had great success around the NBA. First of all, great fan of the show and I basically watch every episode. I wanted to make a more conceptual question. How do you factor in position when rating defensive capability? I think that bad to average defender can be more or less detrimental to his team depending on which position he plays. For example, in a vacuum, I think Jokic is a slightly better defender than Luca, but I'd rather have Luca on my team when building a defense simply because he allows me to play a center and they tradition and they generally have the most impact on the floor because they can provide rim protection and shot blocking. Additionally, I think the reverse applies too. For example, even though Marcus Smart was DPO Y and played amazing defense in 2022, I'd prefer a defender who's worse in a vacuum, but does provide rim protection and shot blocking like Go Bear when a team is. When building a team defense. I was just wondering what your thoughts are in this conceptually and whether you have some thoughts on offense that are similar conceptually. So I disagree about the Luka Jokic comp. The main reason why is that I think that it's actually easier to build defense around a guy like Jokic in the sense that he one, is like an absolutely dominant defensive rebounder. But two, you can build a traditional defensive scheme around the idea of bringing your big up to the level. So if Jokic isn't a great rim protector, he is good at getting up to the level of screens, being active with his hands, getting deflections on passes into the pocket and stuff like that. And he's a good communicator, high IQ defender that can kind of work through the sequences in terms of calling out actions and helping his teammates. Right? Then there's a basic kind of concept on the backside, right? Aaron Gordon comes over as the low man. When the ball gets kicked out, you X out. So the guy from the top of the wing drops to the corner. Aaron Gordon goes out to the wing. There's like rotational concepts that you can use to cover for that. As we saw in the Boston series in 2024, the Luka Doncic type, the perimeter based defender that like can't guard the ball, they're a little bit more vulnerable in my opinion, while also not being the type of big size deterrent that you get from a guy like Nicole Jokic. So I and Luke is a guy who I think is an underrated off ball defender to, to the point that you're trying to make. But I think I lean slightly towards Jokic as a defender than a guy like Luca. The concept you're talking about I think is interesting in the sense that I, I look at your foundational defensive roles as guarding the opposing star in defending ball screens. So those two positions are arguably the most important positions to be good at. However, I think the bigger problem is less like, do you have a Rudy Go Bear, you know, all world screen stopper who can get up to the level and play a deeper drop and blitz and switch onto guys and do all that kind of stuff. I think it's more important to not have a guy that is a complete and total space case. The guys that get absolutely fried at the five spot, it's usually a mental thing. It's usually that they're just never in the right spot. They're lunging at guys they shouldn't be lunging at, staying back when they shouldn't be staying back, going for a shot block and leaving an easy offensive rebound opportunity. So like for a guy like Jokic, for instance, even though he doesn't have the physical tools, obviously as a guy like Rudy Gobert, he's a high IQ defender that like can lock in and be in the right spots and at least not be a problem. And then if you have a lineup where there's no guy on the floor that can guard the opposing star, that can be an issue, right? So like overall, I think those are the two most important position groups in terms of building a foundational defense. But no matter what, you can anchor with guys around. So for instance, like you can have a weaker rim protector if you've got four elite perimeter defenders around them, right? You can have lesser perimeter defenders if you have an elite rim protector, right. There's certain groups that are more of a switching look, right? Like we've seen this with Portland and their center list looks where it's like it's not really about having one supremely gifted on ball defender or this awesome rim protector. It's like take your pick. Do you want to try to drive at Jeremy Grant or Denny Abdia or Drew, excuse me, Drew Holiday or Tamani Kamara? Like which one of these guys do you want to go at? Right? So like a lot of it is about team construct as well.
- [46:29]
Sponsor Announcer
If you smoke or dip, I'm going to give you a few good reasons to try Zyn Zyn Nicotine Pouches first, it's America's number one nicotine pouch brand. And Zyn offers a robust rewards program. There's a lot of options for nicotine satisfaction, but there's only one Zyn. So if you go to zyn.com find that's z y-n.com find to find Zyn at a store near you. This product does contain nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical.
- [46:57]
Anabe Sofa Advertiser
Let's be real. Life happens. Kids spill, pets shed and accidents are inevitable. That's why you need a washable sofa that can keep up. Our sofas are fully machine washable inside and out. So you can say goodbye to stains and hello to worry free living. Made with liquid and stain resistant fabrics, they're kid proof, pet friendly and built for everyday life. Plus change fabric covers let you refresh your sofa whenever you want. Need flexibility? Our modular design lets you rearrange your sofa anytime to fit your space. Whether it's a growing family room or a cozy apartment. Plus they're earth friendly and trusted by over 200,000. Happy customers. Get early access to Black Friday pricing starting at just $699. It's time to upgrade to a stress free mess proof sofa. Visit washablesofas.com today and save that's washablesofas.com offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.
- [47:57]
Sponsor Announcer
This podcast is sponsored by PayPal. Okay, let's talk holiday shopping. When you want to make the most of your Money, head to PayPal's app before you check out. They give you the flexibility to pay in four no fees, no interest. And this is big. Bigger than the 12 foot snowman on your lawn right now. You can get 5% cash back when you pay later with PayPal. So whether it's the must have merch or for that signed jersey you've been eyeing, PayPal helps you make the most of your money this holiday. Save this offer in the PayPal app expires 1231.
- [48:31]
Sponsor Legal/Details
See paypal.com promoterms Subject to approval. Learn more at paypal.com payinfor PayPal Inc. NMLS 910457 Running a business is hard enough, so why make it harder? With a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other. One for sales, another for inventory, a separate one for accounting. Before you know it, you are drowning in software. Instead of growing your business, this is where Odoo comes in. Odoo is the only business software you'll ever need. It's an all in one fully integrated platform that handles everything CRM, accounting, inventory, e commerce, HR and more. No more app overload, no more juggling logins. Just one seamless system makes work easier. And the best part? Odoo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost. It's built to grow with your business, whether you are just starting out or already scaling up. Plus, it's easy to use, customizable and designed to streamline every process so you can focus on what really matters running your business. Thousands of businesses have made the switch, so why not you try Odoo for free@odoo.com that's o d o o.com breaking news everybody.
- [49:44]
Jenna Kim Jones
Not everything is terrible. I repeat, not everything is terrible. The Ripple Effect with Jenna Kim Jones is proof that the Internet, it hasn't ruined humanity entirely. It's hosted by me, Jenna. I'm a comedian, so you know it's going to be funny and uplifting. Of course, each episode of the Ripple Effect features real stories of kindness, of barbers changing more than just their client's haircut, of the secret life, of leftover hotel soap, of vending machines that dispense just the help that someone might need. It's like magic you guys. So put down your doom scroller and pick up your faith in humanity and join me, Jenna for the Ripple Effect. It's a reminder that you can start a ripple that changes everything. You really can. Listen to the Ripple Effect with Jenna Kim Jones Starting November 11th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [50:40]
Jason
Can anyone explain why Eme Udoka keeps insisting on the zone defense? First of all, the the zone defense has been working for Houston. It's actually been working a little bit better than their manto man defense. They have an 89 defensive rating with their zone looks in the half court and then their half court man looks are getting a 91 defensive rating. So they're actually been a little bit better. That 89 defensive rating was owned is actually the seventh best out of any team in the league, but it's also doubled in volume. Of the second place team like they run by far the most zone. They run like 18 possessions a game and the second place team runs less than 10. So it has less noise in the data because it's such a larger sample than the rest of the teams. They're just an awesome zone defense. I think it makes sense because they're not particularly fast but they are big so they can cover ground and stay stationary relative to a man to man look when they're in the zone they are running their zone primarily when Stephen Adams is on the floor too. That's something to keep in mind and it's part of just trying to keep Stephen Adams out of space and try to keep him closer to the rim. But overall IME's insisting on zone because it works. It's not really any more complicated than that. You said Ja is one of maybe 12 players in the NBA with a foundational superstar skill with his being elite athleticism and downhill pressure. Who are those other players in the NBA and what are their skills? Jokic, offensive mastery, for example, Wemby's defensive prowess, etc. Thanks and keep going. Best ball pod in the game. Thank you so much for the kind words and the support. I I ended up putting 16 names down and again what I'm looking at here is an individual skill set that is impossible to account for defensively without throwing the kitchen sink at them. So I'm going to start with all like the classic big playmakers. There's four of them here. This is Luka, this is Nicole Jokic, this is Cade Cunningham. This is LeBron, although LeBron's obviously kind of aged out of this equation. But Just kind of more as like a proof of concept concept. But it's a combination of size, scoring and playmaking. Those three pieces together when you're so damn big and so good at scoring the basketball that you have to send additional defenders, but then they can pass better than just about anybody out of those situations. That's their foundational trait. Then we get into kind of like the unicorn type. So like Giannis overwhelming power. Steph Curry, best shooter to ever touch the earth, but also one of the best condition athletes on the earth. It was constantly running around in circles. That breaks defenses. Wemby length and mobility obviously. Right. No one moves like that at his size and no one has that fluidity off the dribble that he does at his size. And you could argue even if Wemby was a mediocre offensive player, he'd still have the ability to be the best player in the league because of how good he is defensively. Kevin Durant, seven footer that's fluid and can shoot the basketball. So those are like kind of the, the kind of unicorn types. I think I include Zion Williamson in this to rim pressure, short range shot making and playmaking, but also just like built like a refrigerator, that sort of thing. Shake Elders Alexander start stop quickness and body control at his size combined with shot making. LaMelo Ball. He's not really the. The size and power of the big playmakers we named earlier. But he brings good size to the guard position, excellent jump shooting in playmaking. He's a guy that obviously had the. As we get into this like kind of tail end of the list. These are guys that haven't really. These guys haven't really materialized as legitimate superstar talents. But they have the baseline set of skills necessary to where if things go right they can become that type of superstar. To me, if LaMelo Ball can stay healthy and if he continues to improve as a defender, improve in some of his shot selection stuff. I do think LaMelo Ball has superstar potential. He's a guy who can damn near average a 30 point triple double in the NBA. Like you'd be foolish to not consider him as that type of thing talent even if it hasn't materialized. Pao Paulo to me the kind of freelancing, low IQ attack on offense that can be frustrating sometimes, but he has the size, power and polish to if he can figure that stuff out or if he gets with the right coach that can apply structure around him. I think Pao is a guy that could be a defense breaking type of weapon. Zion Williamson we mentioned earlier but he's an example of a guy that hasn't really materialized as that top tier superstar, but he's got that unbelievable foundational trait. If he could just stay healthy and if he could get good enough on defense and if they surrounded him with the right type of talent, you could see a universe where Zion could have that type of MVP level campaign. Anthony Edwards. I should have put him higher up on this list, but supreme athleticism and size for him is just putting together the defense and the mid range shot making piece and just continuing to improve as a playmaker. John Morant is same kind of thing as Ion, just rim pressure with short range shot making and playmaking. And then I actually added Chet Holmgren to this list as my 16th guy. I'm actually, I'm. I'm missing one other. Amend Thompson. Amend Thompson to me kind of has a little bit of that Ja Morant as well. Like unbelievable rim pressure, but also the playmaking and short range shot making to potentially be a devastating offensive weapon. Chad Holmgren, I put him in here because it's elite rim protection, switchability to guard all these different positions. And he has the potential to be a guy who averages 25 points per game in the NBA at high efficiencies. Like this generation's kind of like weird perimeter oriented version of Anthony Davis in terms of a two way weapon as a rim protector. But again, that doesn't mean we have 16 superstars in the league. It just means Those are the 16 guys that I think have such strong foundational traits that they have the ability to reach that level. Many of them are already there and have been there for a while. Many of them are about to get there and some of them have underachieved, but they have that foundational trait. Last one, quickly here. I had someone say, man, you haven't talked about the Nuggets once this year. We've actually talked about the Nuggets four times this year out of their seven games. But I understand why this can get a little bit confusing. Jackson does an amazing job. Every time we do a video that covers any team in the league, he filters them into playlists for each NBA team. So if your team, if you've been thinking like, oh, I, you know, I am a Hawks fan and I want to hear what Jason had to say about the Hawks, whatever it might be. All you got to do is go to our channel, go to playlists and scroll down to your team and click that playlist and you will see a link to every single video we've done. This year that references that team. That should give you an opportunity to kind of sort through and find your specific team if that's what you're looking for. And again, I do the best I can. The top teams in the league, I'm going to talk about a lot more. The middle tier in the teams I'm going to talk about, you know, a couple times a month. And then the bottom tier teams in the league I'm only going to talk about, you know, three, four times in the entire season. That's just how we orient our coverage. I know that that's not the same as some of the other people who cover the league out there, but that's the way we oriented, we do our best with the channel to try to organize it in a way that it's easy to find for you guys. But again, we've, I mean, the Nuggets have played seven games and we've talked about four of them. So you can, you can find that in that Nuggets folder if you're looking for some Nuggets content. All right, guys, that's all I have for today. As always, I sincerely appreciate you guys for supporting us and supporting the show. I hope every one of you enjoys your weekend. If you have a chance, come hang out with us on Saturday night for Lakers Hawks on playback. That should be some fun. I'm excited to get that endeavor off the ground. I'll be taking callers so you'll have an opportunity to come on and ask questions, talk about the game, stuff like that. Again, I appreciate you guys for rocking with us and supporting the show and we'll see you guys on Monday.
- [58:37]
Sponsor Announcer
If you smoke or dip, I'm going to give you a few good reasons to try Zinn Zyn nicotine pouches. First, it's America's number one nicotine pouch brand and Zynn offers a robust rewards program. There's a lot of options for nicotine satisfaction, but there's only one Zinn. So if you go to zyn.com find that's z y-n.com find to find Zyn at a store near you. This product does contain nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical.
- [59:04]
Jason
Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway.
- [59:07]
Sponsor Announcer
Flu season is here and our pharmacies have you covered with a free flu shot with most insurance plans. Plus it's cough and cold season and.
- [59:14]
Jason
Now through December 2nd.
- [59:15]
Sponsor Announcer
Stock up on all the season's essentials and get ready for relief when with discounts on items like mucinex Cold and Flu Kickstart Mucinex, Fast Max Products, vicks Dayquil and Nyquil combo pack Alka Seltzer plus also airborne and Afrin offers end December 2nd. Restrictions apply and offers may vary by location.
- [59:32]
Jason
Visit Albertsons or Safeway.com for more details. Today's episode is brought to you by a scent that's made a legendary comeback. Degree Original Cool Rush the OG is back and better than ever. Cool Rush isn't just a scent, it's a movement. The kind of fragrance that millions of guys ask for by name. It's bold, fresh and delivers all day sweat protection with that cool, crisp vibe that made it a legend. Whether you're heading to the gym, the office or just trying to stay fresh on a long day, Cool Rush has your back. So if you haven't tried it yet, head to your local Walmart and grab Degree Cool Rush, the fan favorite scent from the world's number one antiperspirant brand. When you say Lego Star wars, the first thing you think of is imagination or action. Or both. Definitely both. Like with Jango Fett's Starship. I mean, with Stud Blasters, Seismic charges and three minifigures, your kid is gonna be creating stories until the Banthas come home. And for yourself, there's the Jango Fett's Firespray Class Starship LEGO set from the Ultimate Collector series. Enjoy some Jedi Master level mindfulness during your building time. Shop now for Star wars lego sets on lego.com or in lego retail stores. The day begins at the Chase Sapphire Lounge by the club. At Boston Logan Airport, you get the clam chowder. In San Diego, it's Tostadas New York Espresso Martini. It's 10:00am why not? It's the quiet before your next flight, the shower that resets your day, the menu that lets you know where you are. This is access to over 1300 airport lounges and every Sapphire lounge by the club. And one card that gets you in Chase Sapphire Reserve the most rewarding card. Learn more@chase.com Sapphire Reserve cards issued by JPMorgan Chase bank and a member FDIC subject to credit approval. This is an iHeart podcast.