← The Herd with Colin Cowherd
The Herd with Colin Cowherd
Hoops Tonight - NBA Trade Deadline Reaction:Luka SAVES Lakers, Durant DENIES Warriors, Fox to Spurs, Williams to Lakers
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- [00:00]
Bobby Bones
You can count on T Mobile to help keep you connected from big cities to small towns on America's largest 5G network. Switch the T Mobile keep your phone and they'll pay it off up to 800 bucks per line via prepaid card. Learn more@t mobile.com heap and switch up to four lines via virtual prepaid card. Allow 15 days qualifying unlock device, credit service port in 90 plus days with device and eligible carrier and timely redemption. Acquired card has no cash access and expires in six months hey, it's Bobby Bones.
- [00:37]
Matt Castle
Join me and former NFL quarterback Matt Castle every Wednesday for our new podcast, Lots to say with Bobby Bones and Matt Castle. Between us, we have over 17,500 passing yards, multiple New York Times bestsellers, and one mirrorball trophy from Dancing With a Star. So where else you can find a show with that much athleticism and football insight? We talk sports, but we talk pop culture and music. Music and a little bit of everything. Listen to Lots to Say with Bobby Bones and Matt Castle on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [01:07]
Unnamed Host
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When you bet just five bucks only on DraftKings Sportsbook, the crown is yours. Gambling Problem Call 1-800- gambler in New York, call 877-8-HOPE NY or text Hopeny to 467-369 in Connecticut. Help is available for problem gambling. Call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org Please play responsibly on behalf of Boot Hill Casino and Resort in Kansas. 21 + age and eligibility varies by jurisdiction. Void in Ontario. New customers only. Bonus bets 68 hours after issuance. For additional terms and responsible gaming resources, see DKNG Co Audio. All right, welcome to Hoops Tonight here at the Volume. Happy Thursday everybody. Hope all of you guys are having a great week so far. As of right now we are 22 minutes away. As of the time of me recording this, we are 22 minutes away from the NBA trade deadline. We are going to have a full trade deadline reaction breaking down all of the incredible deals from the last couple of days. I did want to take like 10, 15 minutes right now to just talk about the Lakers getting Mark Williams. You guys know the joke before we get started, subscribe to the Hoops Tonight YouTube channel so you don't miss any more of our videos. Follow me on Twitter at_jason lt so you guys don't miss show announcements. Don't forget about our podcast feed wherever you get your podcast under Hoops Tonight. It's also super helpful if you leave a rating and a review on that front. We also have brand new social media feeds on Twitter, Instagram and Facebook where you can follow us for content throughout the year and then keep dropping mailbag questions in the YouTube comments so that we can hit them on Fridays throughout the remainder of the season. So the Lakers get Mark Williams. Here are the details of the trade Charlotte is getting Dalton Connect Cam Reddish, by the way, for your Hornets fans, Dalton Connect. You'll like him. Really good movement shooter. I think he's hasn't shot the ball overly well this year, but his rotation minutes have been super inconsistent and he hasn't been very prominently featured in the offense. I think that Charlotte's going to give him much more of that kind of opportunity. The dude can shoot the ball. He's a complete mess on defense and there's a bunch of stuff that has to get worked out there. But he's super young and he's big and he's athletic. So he should be able to, at least in the long run, become a serviceable defensive player who's a movement shooter, a guy who can run action, a transition weapon. You guys will like Dalton Connect. He just wasn't somebody that fit into the Lakers timeline. You guys let you Laker fans who follow the show. You'll notice I didn't spend a ton of time talking about Dalton Connect in my big picture Lakers stuff this year because I just didn't think he was Ready. It's no disrespect to Dalton. He's just a young player that needs to have some stuff worked out and the Lakers aren't a more urgent timeline. So within Charlotte I actually like Dalton connect much more as a player that can develop into the high level offensive player that he can be on his own pace and learn how to play defense over time. Cam Reddish also is in the deal the Lakers 2031 unprotected first round pick those 2029 and 2031 first round picks were more valuable before Luka came to town. But still here in the year 2025, that's six years from now. A lot can change by then. So an unprotected Laker 31 first round pick is a good piece of value and they're getting a swap with the Lakers in 2030 so they can get the better of those two draft picks. The Lakers in the deal get Mark Williams. This is a move to go all in on offense. The Lakers could have gone several different directions with this center spot. They could have gotten like a big bruising guy, someone who's mostly unavailable like a Walker Kessler, someone like a Yaka Purdle. Jonas Valentunas ended up going to Sacramento. But like that kind of guy. You could get like a bigger bodied bruising center. You could get a defensive anchor, someone like Nick Claxton. This was the direction I thought they would go considering just the reality of some of the limitations of of Luka doncic and just LeBron being older and losing Anthony Davis and some of the stuff we've learned in NBA history about how your ability to protect the rim in the front court is such an important part of playoff def defense. I thought that would be the direction they they would go. Now to be clear, I want to get a little further into the Lakers on defense later on in the show because I do think the Lakers are going to be better defensively than people think. But we'll talk about that in a minute. They didn't go either of those directions though. They went with the dynamic screen and roll threat. They gave Luca and LeBron one of the best young screen and roll prospects in the NBA. This is the first part of Mark Williams that Lakers fans need to familiarize themselves with. He is just an awesome weapon in the screen and roll game. He sets good screens, he seeks out content, he makes good hard hits on people in screens, but he also has a good feel for when to slip out of screens when the action dictates that when the when that's the read in that situation, he has absolute magnet hands, catches everything in traffic, doesn't turn the ball over very much for a center. He provides a huge vertical spacing window, which is just a vital part of what Luka and LeBron do in pick and roll. I talk about this a lot, but there's like a, there's like a progression in ball screens. I'm going to do a full breakdown of it in a minute. And one of those important reads in that progression is that vertical spacing window in the, like a lob as you're coming downhill in the ball screens. And Mark Williams just perfectly fits into that, into that mold. He's got like a super high standing reach. I think it's like 9ft, 9 inches and change just gets. But. But he also can catch everything. It's not just dunks either. Like if it's a little bit of a bad pass, he can kind of guide it into the basket at a really high level. No matter what you want to talk about with Mark Williams, even when you starting to get into his defensive limitations, which we'll talk about in a minute, the dude is an incredible offensive weapon and he's going to make life easier for the Lakers on the offensive end. So let's zoom in on that for a minute. We'll get to the defensive stuff in a little bit. If your goal was to make the Lakers completely unguardable on offense, this was the kind of move you had to make. Because in order for a Luca or LeBron led offense to be unguardable, you need several things. I have four things on this list. One, ideally you need a legit number two, so that Luca or LeBron don't have to do everything so they don't wear down over the course of games and over seasons. Well, I'd argue LeBron and Luka together compliment each other in that way, giving each other the ability to rest, take it easy when the other is on the floor and they need a break. And with Austin, they have plenty of depth in that regard, I'd argue they're the best shot creation trio in the entire NBA right now. When you get down to it, Austin for weeks now has been like 20 points per game on 50, 40, 90. That's what you're complimenting LeBron and Luka with. Secondly, you need a legit vertical spacing threat, a dynamic above the rim kind of thing that the defense has to account for. Here's why the MA. The vast majority of teams are going to guard LeBron and Luka up at the Level because they don't want to let them get downhill. Even when they don't, the roll man is going to have to, or excuse me, the screen defender, the guy guarding Mark Williams is going to have to come up to at least account for LeBron and Luka as scores. You guys have all seen it before. If you let Luca have the defender chase him over the top of the screen and he could pin him on his backside. And if you let him just methodically roll down the lane, he's going to get to one of those little five to seven foot push shots that he just never misses, right? So like you have to account for Luke on the roll and LeBron is like the downhill threat. If you let Mark WILLIAMS Screen for LeBron and you let LeBron go screaming downhill, he's going to break your defense down. So you have to account for LeBron by meeting about meeting him up high so that he doesn't get ahead of steam. You need LeBron to come off of those ball screens slowly, right? And the only way you're going to do that is by bringing a big up to the level so LeBron doesn't see a Runway to go downhill, right? So in those two situations, if the screen defender has to account for Luka, if Mark Williams defender has to account for Luka, if Mark Williams defender has to account for LeBron. Now Mark Williams is open rolling to the basket in that lob window, right? How do teams account for that? They account for that by bringing a guy over from the weak side to tag the roller, right? But the only way they're going to do that, the only way they're going to account for that role man, is if they view him as a real vertical spacing threat. So that's the second most important part to making a LeBron or Luka led offense unguardable. You got to have depth of shot creation. You've got to have a vertical spacing threat so that you can throw the lob when the screen defender comes up. Thirdly, you need to have guys who can finish plays by capitalizing on the advantages that are created as the defense shades towards LeBron and Luca and towards Mark Williams, right? So imagine we have a guy who's guarding Rui Hachimura in the weak side corner. That guy is going to come over and basically box out Mark's Mark Williams so that he can't roll to the rim for a dunk for that easy lob dunk, right? This is where those skip passes are open. Two of the best passers in the History of the NBA in ball screens. To that skip to the corner are Luka and LeBron. You have to have guys that can score the basketball on the weak side of the floor. And this team will constantly have when Luka has the ball, LeBron off the ball. Austin Reeves off the ball. Dorian Finney Smith is knocked down, three point shooter off the ball. Rui Hachimura, a guy who can score the basketball, even Gabe can both hit shots, but can put the ball on the floor and make extra moves in the mid range scoring in, in closeout situations. Right? Like when you play playoff defense, a really good playoff defense, it's not a lot of catch and shoot jump shots, it's not a lot of easy stuff at the rim. It's a lot more of like you get an advantage. This guy has to score. This guy might have to put the ball on the floor and hit a mid range jumper. This guy might have to put the ball on the floor and make that next read to further break down the defense. This is a strength on this roster. Now the Lakers always had these guys that can do a little bit more offensively, guys like Austin, guys like Rui, guys like Gabe, but they couldn't create good enough advantages for them consistently. Now because LeBron is slotted as your second best shot creator, because Austin is slotted as your third best shot creator, because you have the lob threat, the legitimate lob threat that Mark Williams brings to the table, you are going to provide guys like Rui, guys like Austin, guys like LeBron, even Luca when he's off the ball, guys like Gabe, you're going to be providing them really high quality advantage situations as defenses have to account for Mark Williams on the roll and if they don't, if that low man doesn't come over, if they stay glued up to Rui, Austin, LeBron, whoever it is on the weak side, Mark Williams is going to get a dunk every single time down the floor. It like every team in the NBA is going to have to make a decision with how to guard the Lakers because that's the last piece. If first it's depth of shot creation, second, a vertical spacing threat, third, weak side scoring. The last thing is what if they switch? If they switch, you got to have guys who can beat a switching defense. And Luka just puts you into much better position to handle that type of defensive look. You will have more favorable matchups all over the floor as defenses have to account for Luka. What decision are you going to make as a defense guard in the Lakers do you want to let LeBron and Luka just pick on your weakest defender and switches? That's probably not going to go well. Do you want to let LeBron and Luka get downhill in ball screens and pick you apart? That's probably not going to work. Okay, so then you're going to have to come up to the level that's going to open those skip passes and lob passes or you're going to have to double when they're picking on switches, which is just going to lead to more of those advantages which the Lakers have guys to capitalize on. I think this team has the potential to be the most resilient playoff offense in the NBA, aside from maybe the Nikola Jokic Denver Nuggets. I think they're on that tier now. Jokic, I think is the best tight space playoff shot creator in the NBA, but Luka is right there at number two. And they have LeBron James and they have Austin Reeves. And so like, I don't even want to overthink things. This team is going to score the basketball. But let's talk about defense. Mark Williams is flatly not a good defensive player right now. He produces statistically. He's very good rebounder. We'll talk about that in a minute. It's an important part of defense. He does block a good amount of shots. Blocks 1.7 shots per 36 minutes, which is not bad. It's not great for a guy his size, but it's not terrible. But he's not particularly good at anything on defense. He has really bad technique on the perimeter. He does a lot of opening his stance. So like he'll try to contest shots by going sideways, which just leaves his stance open so guys can drive by. He leaves his feet on ball fakes and gets out of position really, really bad on the perimeter. So Charlotte tried to account for this by just exclusively using Mark Williams in like a super deep drop coverage. Meaning, like as the ball screen was taking place, he would just sit back in the paint and try to keep him around the rim. And he does have some value there. Again, like, he's a great defensive rebounder. This is a Laker team that has struggled to rebound at times this year. He has good length. He's going to be an asset down there. But even around the rim, he goes for ball fakes, he gets out of position. He's not a good defensive player right now. So, like, whether or not Mark Williams can be a high level rotation piece for the Lakers will come down to J.J. redick's ability to find a way to make Mark useful on the defensive end of the floor. But I just think when we're having that conversation, we have to at least acknowledge what he brings on the offensive end. And that's why I actually look at this trade as more of a way just to give the Lakers a different configuration that they can go to. We saw this team look really good playing small ball in last. In the last week without Anthony Davis. They did have Max Christie in the Knicks game, but they didn't have Max Christie in the Clippers game. Against the Clippers and against the Knicks, they executed their small ball looks really well. A lot of like LeBron, Rui Vando, Dorian, Finney Smith, just these big, rangy 6, 8, 69 big strong forwards all over the floor that are switching and swarming around and rebounding and doing all the things they knew to do need to do that job. I talked a lot early in the season about how like JJ Redick's switching scheme can work. The Lakers just weren't doing it well. They, they're. They've been doing it in the last week. I actually think this team will have small ball looks that can defend. There's a lot of talk about, like, how are the Lakers going to get any stops. They've been getting stops with the same guys over the course of the last week. I don't think the Mark Williams looks are. With like the lineups with Mark Williams and Luka on the floor are going to struggle to guard. That's going to be a problem. But they're also to score really, really well. There are good defenders in the rotation. LeBron James, when he's engaged in the last week, has been an excellent defender. Dorian Finney Smith, good defender. Jared Vanderbilt, excellent defender. Gabe Vincent, good defender. They have good defensive players in this rotation and I just kind of see them having these different configurations. I think they'll have small ball looks primarily anchored by LeBron, where it's LeBron in a bunch of forwards and they're guarding and they're doing everything that they did against the Clippers and the Knicks. And then they'll have these other looks, especially like Luca on the floor, LeBron off, where it's like, hey, let's just try to outscore teams. It's going to be Luca, it's going to be, you know, Austin, it's going to be Mark Williams, it might be Rui Hachimura and that look, and maybe Jared Vanderbilt to guard the other team's best player, something like that. They're going to have looks for all of these different parts of the game. And you're right, like, there might be a time when it's like, oh shit, we can't play Mark Williams against these guys. He's getting absolutely fried on defense. They can go to small ball looks. They have the personnel for that now because instead of having a bunch of small guys, they've got six or seven dudes that are between six, eight and six, nine and and, you know, 240 pounds plus. Like they just have a lot of bodies to be able to defend in small ball looks, to be able to rebound in small ball looks in a way that they didn't earlier in the season because of bringing in Dorian Finney Smith because of the health of Jared Vanderbilt. I think having multiple looks is a good thing. The main concern that I have is like, are they going to be able to hang with like a team like Denver? And that's where it's going to get tricky. Do they need to get in the next seven minutes here? Do they need to try to get a bigger center that can bang with Jokic a little bit and give them at least a little bit more matchup versatility in that regard? But as I look out from the Mark Williams thing, this team has the potential to be the most unguardable playoff offense in the NBA. But they're going to have defensive holes that they have to fill. Let's just acknowledge that they have more good defensive personnel than I think the public opinion would lead you to believe. At this point.
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Bobby Bones
You can count on T Mobile to help keep you connected from big cities to small towns on America's largest 5G network. Switch the T mobile, keep your phone and they'll pay it off up to 800 bucks per line via prepaid card. Learn more@t mobile.com heap and switch up to four lines via virtual prepaid card. Allow 15 days qualifying unlock device credit service port in 90 plus days with device and eligible carrier and timely redemption required. Card has no cash access and expires in six months.
- [18:43]
Matt Castle
Hey, it's Bobby Bones. Join me and former NFL quarterback Matt Castle every Wednesday for our new podcast, Lots to say with Bobby Bones and Matt Castle. Between us, we have over 17,500 passing yards, multiple New York Times bestsellers, and one mirror ball trophy from Dancing with the Star. So where else are you going to find a show with that much athleticism and football insight? Based in Nashville, we're more than just your basic NFL show. We talk sports, but we talk pop culture and music and a little bit of everything because we got lots to say. I I texted you and you texted me back. Now I don't know if you have the update, but like all the little thumbs up and heart and stuff, like it's all colored. They changed it and the, the heart's a little pink. It felt like I told you I loved you. I'm gonna be honest, it was a little pink.
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Unnamed Host
There was something sentimental when you like when, when you send it, it's like, do I send the heart now?
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Matt Castle
I don't like the color edition.
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Unnamed Host
It's extremely pink.
- [19:35]
Matt Castle
Listen to Lots to say with Bobby Bones and Matt castle on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast Podcast or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [19:54]
Unnamed Host
The Cleveland Cavaliers get DeAndre Hunter in the arms race in the Eastern Conference Details on the trade The Cavs get DeAndre Hunter. The Hawks get Caris Lavert, Georgeous Niang three second round picks and two swaps I love this deal for the Cavs. The Cavs had hit a little bit of an offensive lull. They're 8 and 6 in their last 14 games and there have been games where the offense looks great. But in the six losses they only logged an offensive rating of 113 and cooled off a little bit from three. They were only 34.5% on catch and shoot threes in those six losses. DeAndre Hunter represents two value ads for the Cavs office. First of all, he's just a knockdown catch and shoot guy. Shoots 45% on unguarded catch and shoot three, so that will help in that specific regard. But he's also just an overall talent ad on the offensive side of the ball. You can shoot off the dribble really well. Shoots 46% field goal percentage on pull up jump shots. When you wait for threes, it comes down to 1.07 points per shot. As a matter of fact, out of the 93 players in the NBA this year that have attempted at least 100 pull up jump shots, DeAndre Hunter ranks 11th out of 93 in efficiency. So I got a little bit of off the dribble pop. He has a decent floater that he hits at about 42% and he's just got some real scoring chops. He's run 133 pick and rolls isos and post ups this year right at about a point per possession. Especially good shooting out of ball screens as the handler. And so what I think about when I look at this deal is the reality of breaking down playoff defenses. This is a concept I've talked about A lot over the course of the last few years, which is like during the regular season you're going to get a lot of wide open catch and shoot threes, you're going to get a lot of layups, things like that, out of defensive breakdowns. But then what ends up happening inevitably is you get into a playoff series, the intensity and the quality of the opponents you're playing goes up and you're not getting those super easy transition opportunities as often. The defensive breakdowns aren't happening nearly as often. The rotations are super sharp, the game planning is so intense. The best you can hope for a lot of the times is a little bit of a advantage on the other side of the floor. Like maybe we can get this skip pass because they load up on the ball screen on Garland or Mitchell or whoever it is, and they're loading up on the roll, man. And we whip the cross pass across the court and we can get a guy a chance to catch with the defender sprinting at him. A good elite playoff defender sprinting at him. And that's where it helps to have scoring chops off the ball. And the Cavs do have a lot of guys that can shoot, that can knock down catch and shoot threes. But DeAndre Hunter is a guy that brings just another layer to those advantage creation situations where he's going to be able to hit some of the playoff shots. He's going to be able to do more off the bounce on the skip than a guy like Dean Wade. He's going to be able to do more off the bounce off the skip than a guy like George's Niang was able to do. Right? And so it's just a talent ad. It gives them another guy that allow that, that with more offensive firepower to break down playoff defenses. I was literally talking about this on the I appeared briefly on the Athletics big trade deadline special today and I was talking about it there. Like you, your aggregate ball handling, your aggregate skill, your aggregate shooting ability, your aggregate scoring chops. I always talk about scoring as a separate category from shooting because scoring to me is about like audacity and confidence, the willingness to take tougher shots and then having like the creativity, the, the, the, the footwork and the dribble combinations and the tweaking your release angles and shooting with a little more arc, a little less arc, whatever it is you need to do to make a bucket happen in kind of a weird fluid situation that's not like just you standing still or doing some sort of basic drill that's scoring in My opinion. And so aggregate scoring, aggregate shooting, aggregate passing, those things matter more now than they used to because of the way defenses have gotten so good at loading up on the strong side, taking the ball out of your primary ball handler's hands. So to me, DeAndre Hunter is just an influx of talent that gives them a better chance to survive as things get tougher in the postseason. He also gives them more size on the perimeter, which will help them match physicality with teams like Boston. That's really what this was to me. They're trying to close the talent gap with Boston as much as they can, and this was a big step in that direction. I like Niang, he did some stuff, but Deandra Hunter is just better. And the emergence of Ty Jerome as one of the best backup guards in the league made Caris Levert a little bit redundant. And I like Karris and I thought he had some value, especially like I thought he was the, the best Cavs defender on Shake Gil Just Alexander in the matchups that they had. And so yeah, if they got to the Finals, that's, that could be something that is a little bit of an issue, but it's just such a small little bit of utility in the big picture that I actually think this was a smart trade. Cleveland is approaching the season with some real urgency and I like it. They have a five game lead on the Boston Celtics. If they can maintain that, they'll have home court advantage in the conference finals and they'll have their chance to eliminate the Celtics. The second trade we're getting to today, De'Aaron Fox to the San Antonio Spurs. I've been asking for this trade ever since Sacramento got off to such a terrible start this season. This is like the half dozen time we've talked about it, so I won't go too into detail, but I've been hung up on this specific concept, which is that San Antonio has a lot of young, developing talent, but that one of those guys is just so far ahead of his teammates in that development trajectory that you can't afford to just let them slowly grow together. By this time next year, Victor Wembanyama will probably be a consensus top six player in the NBA. Jokic, Luka, Giannis, Shai Tatum and Victor some order and some, some folks might even add Victor higher than 6 when the time comes. And you can't just let a hyper, competitive, super talented dude who's one of the top six basketball players in the world just sit around and wait for his young teammates to slowly improve. I thought De'Aaron Fox was the perfect player to address that conundrum for three reasons. One, he's older than Wemby, but he's just starting his prime. I think he has at least five years left playing at the level that he's currently at. That is a good long window to justify this type of investment. Two, he's legitimately good enough to be Wemby's number two. I had Dieren Fox in my top 25 this summer. I think his combination of downhill speed and over the top scoring ability. And again, he hasn't shot as well from the perimeter this year. But he's got such good short range shot making ability. Those short lean back jumpers, floaters, things along those lines. It's just such a devastating combo. To be able to be a real threat downhill, but to always be able to stop on a dime and shoot over the top. It's just a devastating combo. There are a lot of fast guys in the NBA. There are a lot of guys who can make shots. There are very few that can do both at an extremely high level. And even with his shooting being down a bit this year, he's still over 40% on pull up jump shots. He's still over 50% on floaters, on high volume. And he logs in terms of the downhill ability. He logs the same amount of drives per game as John Morant. To give you guys some perspective on how much Deer and Fox can get downhill. Which brings me to the third reason that I liked Dear and Fox. For the spurs, the basketball fit is utterly perfect. The ideal fit for a pick and pop big is a downhill guard. Wemby obviously does a lot on ball for the Spurs. They'll run action for him around the foul line where he'll catch and turn and face, you know, 18, 20ft from the basket, ISO that kind of stuff. But when he's operating as a screener in action, he's almost always popping out to the perimeter, right? Like that's what he does. He's a pick and pop big in terms of his utility in the flow of the offense. The reason why a downhill guard is so valuable with a pick and pop big has to do with the way that speed can break down traditional ball screen coverages. For starters, you can't switch, right? Like if you switch with a downhill guard and a guy like Wemby, the best thing that you can do when you're a big switching out onto the perimeter, onto a guard is to force him to settle for a jump shot. And there are a lot of skill guards in the league that will get bigs on switches and they'll settle for jump shots. And don't get me wrong, sometimes they go in, but it's. There's a good amount of variance there. The death sentence for a big on a switch is speed because they really struggle to move laterally and contain the ball. Deer and Fox can beat bigs off the dribble for much more reliable offense beating switches. So that's a bad idea. And putting a small guard on a shot maker like Victor Wenyama is not a good. Not a good idea either. Right. Now let's take a look at a traditional coverage. Meaning the defense does not switch. If you use the screener's man. So Victor's man to contain the ball, which you have to, right? Because if you're not switching and Wemby sets a pick on the guy guarding the Aaron Fox and Wemby's man doesn't help at all. Darren's going right downhill. He. He's flying downhill in your defense breaks. So you got to have that screen defender there to contain the ball, right? But here's the problem. As Victor pops above the break, that defender who's containing the ball now has a closeout. He's got a closeout from where the ball handler is all the way back out to Wemby where he's popping. This is where the downhill element of Deer and Fox's game is so valuable. The longer that closeout is for that screen defender to get back to Wemby, the better opportunities that Wemby is going to get, right? The more athletic the guard is, the further he gets downhill, the more it forces the entire defense to. To drop back to contain. The even longer that closeout is going to be, right? A skill guard who kind of meanders off the ball screen and pitches it back to Wemby might only be a 10, 15 foot closeout. But if Dear and Fox comes screaming down that ball screen and the guy's meeting him more by the semicircle instead of up by the top of the key, that's an extra 10ft that the big guy has to close out. And so I just imagine like just a ton of these really, really open looks and high advantage situations for Wemby in a wide open top of the key type of situation. I just think. I think it's just a perfect fundamental basketball fit in two man game to have a guy like Victor Wembanyama that can pick and pop with a devastating downhill guard like Dear and Fox. And he's also a very Complimentary defensive fit. I've talked about this a lot over the course of the season. Fox is an attacking, aggressive, disrupt the ball type of perimeter defender rather than the sit back and contain the ball type of perimeter defender. Containing is most important when you don't have strong rim protection. Attacking can actually be really useful with strong rim protection because ball pressure usually forces the ball handler to speed up. It forces them to drive because that's how you beat ball pressure. You beat ball pressure by driving. If you try to retreat, they're just going to keep pressuring you until you lose control of the basketball. You attack ball pressure. And so in those situations where you force them to drive and you pressure well and you rush them, they go downhill without a plan. And that's where mistakes can happen. Cleaning up that type of dribble penetration is a thing that Wemby is better at than literally anyone that's ever played the game of basketball. So, like, I view it as a really complimentary defensive fit as well. So you got a player who one is good enough to help Wemby compete for championships right away, but is also young enough to fit the longer term Wemby timeline while also being the perfect basketball fit on both ends of the floor. And you did it without having to give up any of your most exciting young players. I think it's an absolute home run move for the Spurs. That's why I've been pushing for it all season. I haven't watched their debut. I think they played for the first time together last night. I've been so focused on the deadline, I haven't had a chance to watch it yet. But super, super for all these guys, by the way. Super excited to dive into in the next couple of weeks the basketball of these dudes playing on their new teams. That's why you got to come back to hoops tonight on the daily basis. We do a lot of game breakdowns in the mornings after these games. Zach Levine to the Sacramento Kings. I really like Zach Levine, but I think this was probably by far the most boring place for him to end up. Like, Zach's really good. He's athletic and get to the rim, excellent jump shooter with real scoring chops. He can create shots for himself out of many different types of footwork, dribble combinations. He's a bucket getter. He's got solid playmaking chops. He's been an efficient shot creator in every play type this year. And he's healthier than you would think. His reputation is that he's never healthy. He had a really bad year last year, but he played like 77 games the year before. But it's boring because we already know what it looks like. We've literally seen a team led by DeMar DeRozan and Zach Levine as their two primary shot creators. I talked about this two years ago. The Bulls had a year where Levine, DeRozan and Vucevich were healthy all year long and they were bad. If I remember correctly, their starters had a negative net rating even though they had super fortunate health that year. We've seen what this look like looks like. Now I know that Demona Sabonis is a much better player than Nikola Vucevic and that they have Malik Monk. I know it's not a perfect comparison, but it's also a tougher conference at west but at the very least we do know that DeMar DeRozan and Zach Levine is not enough offense to be a truly elite game breaking offense. And we also know that this Kings team is never going to overwhelm teams with defense, not with lineups built around Sabonis, Zach Levine and DeMar DeRozan. You're not so like I don't need to see much or to overthink this to know that the Kings just continued to maintain their mediocrity. This felt to me like the Kings just trying to remain relevant while also acquiescing to Dear and Fox Trade demand. And they'll be fun. The Kings will go on some win streaks on some nights. They'll look really good on offense and they'll beat really good teams, but they are going to accomplish anything of significance. And that's why I thought this was the most boring destination for Zach Levine. The Milwaukee Bucks get Kevin Porter Jr. Jericho Sims and Kyle Kuzma for Marjon Beauchamp, Chris Middleton, A.J. johnson and a pick swap. And I think the Bucs also might have gotten a second round pick back in that deal as well. If I remember correctly, I saw a lot of negativity surrounding this trade from Bucs fans and I get it to a certain extent. Like Chris, when he's at his best, is a better basketball player than Kyle Kuzma. But Khris Middleton hasn't shown his top end in a long time. His ball handling has been valuable to the Bucs this year in the half court. He's been able to create advantages and just kind of grease the wheels for them in their offense. But he's been back for 23 games and he's averaging 12.6 points per game. This is not the same 20 point per game. Chris Middleton anymore had a couple 20 point games in the last couple of weeks, but they were in like losses where the team didn't look good or I think he had one in Utah as well. Like, this is not the same Chris Middleton that was such an important part of the championship team a few years ago. Now, whether or not this trade makes any sense will come down to what Kyle Kuzma turns into. The Bucks need to be able to convert Kyle Kuzma back into their winning culture because he's been playing losing basketball down in Washington for a few years now. In Kyle Kuzma's last year with the Lakers before his trade to Washington, he had actually turned himself into a really good role player. First of all, he's a very good rebounder. Towards the end with the Lakers in the last like year or two, he had become so good off ball, playing passing lanes, rotating and just being such a good defensive rebounder that he actually had turned himself into a really useful role player. The key will be bringing that out of him again. That's on Giannis, that's on Brooke, that's on Doc Rivers, Dame and all the leaders of that team to refocus Kyle Kuzma's energy in the directions that made him such a useful player for the Lakers towards the end. He's got good size. He is a good athlete. He can win contested rebound battles. He can fly around in rotation and play passing lanes. He's big. Like this is a size move for Milwaukee. That Kuzma Giannis, Brook Lopez frontline is just way more physically imposing than a, like even, even than a Bobby Portis like too big kind of look, because Bobby doesn't move as well as Kyle Kuzma does. But like, certainly like Taurian Prince is a bad rebounder. Like this is a big size athleticism off ball defense and rebounding upgrade for the Bucks. If they can bring that back out of Kyle Kuzma, which again, that's, that's the big kind of variable here, right? And then on offense, Kuzma is an interesting case study in how little efficiency actually matters relative to your reputation in the league. Like how Kuzma is an inefficient offensive player. His best shooting year was actually his last year with the Lakers and he only shot 36%. He's a career 54% in true shooting, which is nothing to celebrate. But he is constantly aggressive. It's actually funny how aggressive he is. He's a career 17 field goal attempts per 36 minutes in his career. Even his last year in LA, when he was in his smallest role there, he still took 14 shots per 36 minutes. This is an aggressive score. He averages seven 3 point attempts per 36 minutes in his career. He shoots so much and he always has this threat that he might go off. Like obviously he's been more of a scoring role with Washington, but even going back to the Lakers, any giving night he could go for 20. Any given night he could go for 30. The threat was there. He has 97 career games with over 25 points. He has 11 career games with over 35 points. This has led to and this stood out to me in such an interesting way. When he was with the Lakers, this led to teams accounting for him on the scouting report the same way you would for a more efficient score. The way he's guarded is like that of a more efficient score, so his value on offense is greater than his efficiency would lead you to believe because teams will account for him. I think he slots in really nicely as the starting three increases their size and rebounding ability gives them more scoring pop. The big variable here is can they get him to commit back to playing winning basketball? The Bucks also got Kevin Porter Jr. He's just a bench bucket getter, nothing too crazy there. He has all the footwork and dribble combinations to get his own shot, but he just isn't particularly good at making shots. For whatever that's worth, Jericho Sims is just a hyper athletic center who plays really hard but isn't really good at anything on either end of the floor. I do think the Bucks got a little better in this trade cycle. It certainly would have been better if they could have pulled off something like a Jimmy Butler deal or Zach Levine deal. But they didn't win in those those bidding wars and so they ended up having to pivot to something else. And again, like with the urgency surrounding Dame's age and Giannis's commitment to the franchise, like you had to do something. It's not perfect, there's risk involved. Kyle Kuzma shares a certain amount of variability here with his commitment to winning. But you had to do something. And this is this at least has the potential to bring real upside for the Bucks.
- [38:29]
Bobby Bones
You can count on T Mobile to help keep you connected from big cities to small towns on America's largest 5G network. Switch the T Mobile keep your phone and they'll pay it off up to 800 bucks per line via prepaid card. Learn more@t mobile.com Keep and switch up to 4 lines via virtual prepaid card Allow 15 days qualifying unlock device, credit service port in 90 plus days with device and eligible carrier and timely redemption. Required card has no cash access and expires in six months.
- [39:06]
Matt Castle
Hey, it's Bobby Bones. Join me and former NFL quarterback Matt Castle every Wednesday for our new podcast, Lots to say with Bobby Bones and Matt Castle. Between us, we have over 17,500 passing yards, multiple New York Times bestsellers, and one mirrorball trophy from Dancing with the Star. So where else are you going to find a show with that much athleticism and football insight? Based in Nashville, we're more than just your basic NFL show. We talk sports, but we talk pop culture and music and a little bit of everything because we got lots to say. I texted you. Text me back. Now, I don't know if you have the update, but like all the little thumbs up and heart and stuff, like it's all colored. They changed it and the, the heart's a little pink. It felt like I told you I loved you. I'm going to be honest, it was a little pink.
- [39:49]
Unnamed Host
There was something sentimental when you, like when, when you send it, you was like, do I send the heart now?
- [39:55]
Matt Castle
Because I don't like the color edition.
- [39:57]
Unnamed Host
It's extremely pink.
- [39:58]
Matt Castle
Listen to Lots to say with Bobby Bones and Matt Castle on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you go, get your podcasts.
- [40:17]
Unnamed Host
All right, we have a new segment that we're debuting today from our new partner, Microsoft. So let's get into that. Welcome to Course Correction brought to you by Microsoft. Just like star players and teams navigating performance hurdles, business decision makers today are under immense pressure to get things right. They must rise to the occasion, turning challenges into opportunities. Microsoft empowers these visionaries with AI solutions, simplified cloud and data management, and trustworthy, responsible AI. And when you're in the NBA, you have your own hurdles to face. In this segment, we're going to be exploring the challenges faced by teams or star players and how they can turn things around. Whatever challenge you're facing, Microsoft empowers you with the expertise to say, bring it on. This week we're discussing the challenge faced by Rob Pelinka and the Los Angeles Lakers. Rob Polinka and the Lakers were in a little bit of a bind. They were built around a 40 year old LeBron James and a soon to be 32 year old Anthony Davis, who's a little older than his age would lead you to believe. And they looked like a team that clearly did not have a championship ceiling in large part because of Mistakes that this front office made. The catastrophe of the Russell Westbrook trade. Roster imbalances brought by a failure to prioritize motor and athleticism around their aging stars. It looked really bleak. But at the same time, the team this year was showing some real promise. The Lakers are 178 in their last 25 games. It's the seventh best record in the league over that span. They've shown some real promise with their small ball groups on both ends of the floor. Impressive wins against the Boston Celtics, the Knicks without Anthony Davis, a small ball group, the Clippers without. They beat the Clippers without Anthony Davis or without Max Christie. A lot of small ball groups in those games. LeBron has looked fantastic. But then Nico Harrison calls with an opportunity involving Luka Doncic. This is where I thought Rob rose to the occasion and turned a challenge into an opportunity. Started with self awareness. Everything in life starts with you being willing to admit what you're good at and admit what you're bad at. There was a moment there where Rob had to take a look at this and realize that they're not good enough. Even though they've been playing well, even though it looks like there's an upside, even though you could argue that team might have been a trade away. But it was about looking at that and making a tough decision with self awareness about where this team was actually going. This was a high point in Lakers history. This recent stretch of games that they've been playing in recent Lakers history. I should say there was a lot of optimism floating around, but the reality was they weren't good enough to beat okc. They weren't good enough to beat Boston. They might not have even been good enough to beat Denver. So first Rob makes the big decision. We're moving on from Anthony Davis to Luca. But from there he had to navigate the massive problem that presents for the rest of the roster when you send out Anthony Davis and you don't even have a viable replacement at center. From there, Rob did a really nice job of negotiating with Nico Harrison, holding on to his 2031 first round pick, holding on to Dalton. Connect. Those are two assets that you could argue Nico Harrison should have just demanded. Like Dalton should be a Mav. That pick should be the Mavs. And Rob held his ground and hung onto those picks that gave him the ability to make another trade to find the center of the future in Mark Williams. And to top it all off, he managed to clear a roster spot in the process, which is huge because I think the Lakers are going to be the premier buyout destination in the entire NBA in the next month. Any center that signs with the Lakers can get a pretty much guaranteed rotation spot. Any wing or swing man that can play some defense and shoot has guaranteed minutes available. They are the premier buyout destination and they cleared out a roster spot. One of the things I always talk about on this show with respect to players is the idea of just making a play. It doesn't matter how bad of a game you're having. It doesn't matter how bad of a season you're having. If you just start playing better, then your circumstances will improve. And it's been a really rough tenure for Rob Pelinka as GM of the Lakers, but he just pulled off the unthinkable. He just reopened a championship contending window, one that seemed almost shut and now it could be open for the next decade. Now, as basketball fans, we get to do the fun part, which is watching LeBron James and Luka Doncic play basketball together. So shout out to Rob Polinka. He made a play, so to speak, and now he's completely rewritten the story of his tenure as general manager of the Los Angeles Lakers. That's it for this week's course correction. Remember, Microsoft's AI solutions empower you to take bold steps and make informed decisions, sparking new ideas to help you drive your business forward. With Microsoft as your trusted partner, you can navigate your journey with confidence. Your journey with confidence. Finding innovative solutions in reaching new possibilities. Visit Microsoft.com challengers to learn more. All right guys, before we get out of here, we're going to do a rapid fire segment hitting through a bunch of other stuff around the league. First of all, Kevin Durant refusing Golden State. I wanted Kevin Durant to go to Golden State. I straight up think he would have had a better chance to win there than he did in Phoenix. I talked about this in the Jimmy Butler show yesterday, but I think there's a misconception about the warriors that they're bad when really they're just horribly imbalanced. Even after that Jimmy Butler trade, they still have like 11 rotation players that can play meaningful basketball, at least within the context of the regular season. And they were able to bring in a guy in Jimmy Butler that immediately balances the roster out. You don't need 15 guys that can play minutes in the NBA. You don't need 15 of them. You can do it with 11 and give yourself more firepower off the top. Right? I thought KD would have very cleanly kind of slotted into that Jimmy Butler type of role that we talked about last night, same concepts that I talked about last night with respect to playing alongside Steph. I did have a worry, though, even when all that buzz was kind of building on Tuesday this week, I've just heard from so many different sources like that Kevin Durant really didn't like the way the whole Golden State thing went down and that he looks back at that era with a little bit more contempt than people are willing to realize. And so I was hoping that enough time had passed and, you know, like, maybe it would have been able to. Like, I'd heard a report too that, like, Phoenix was coveting Draymond in that deal. Like, I thought maybe there was some way to work it out towards Kevin Durant going that direction, but he stepped in there and he said, I don't want to do it. I don't want to go back to the Bay. And I do think that that comes down to the way everything that went down when he left. And so it's kind of a bummer. And now Katie's stuck on that Suns team, which, I mean, I guess got. We're going to talk about it in a minute. Maybe they got a little bit better bringing in Cody Martin, but like, I don't see anything really substantial there. That looks like an opportunity. So at least Kevin doesn't have to move, I guess. But it was interesting the way he stepped in and nixed that deal from taking place. Mark is smart to the Washington Wizards. Kind of crazy that they traded two picks, two first round picks to get him and then had to pay another first round pick to get off of him. It's a weird sequence for a front office that's otherwise been excellent. But the upside for the rest of the league is that if you are not in the first apron or second apron, you could potentially get Marcus Smart in a buyout if he gets bought out before the end of the season. And I think he would be a really interesting buyout guy to raise a ceiling for a team. Golden State would be an interesting spot for Marcus Spot if Marcus Smart becomes available. Detroit, the Pistons get Dennis Schroeder. I actually really like Dennis Schroeder. He had a little bit of a rough go there with Golden State, but he was miscast as like the secondary star on the team. Dennis Schroeder to me is an extremely useful player in that he can guard point guards from the other teams. He is a savage competitor, like legitimately just gives it his all every single night. I loved rooting for that guy. Pistons fans, you will love rooting for him. He just needs to be in a position where he's not depended on to a great deal to run offense now within Detroit because of the injury to Jaden Ivy, he's going to kind of be in that position where he's expected to do a lot and there will be a lot of highs and lows for Dennis Schroeder on the offensive end of the floor. You need to be aware of that. But I do like the idea of at least just giving Cade another guy that can help, another guy that can help handle the ball, another guy that can handle ball pressure, another guy that can just carry shifts when he's off the floor. Again. You, you didn't want to do anything too crazy because you don't want to do anything to mess with Detroit's timeline. But at the same time, this is like a nice inexpensive move that just gives you a little bit more firepower to get a more interesting look at Detroit when they get to the postseason. The Clippers get bogged on Bogdanovich for Terrence Mann and Bones Highland, another shot creator for the Clippers. That's a team that's light on shot creation. Any injury that takes place, all of a sudden Norman Powell is your secondary shot creator and he's been great this year. But getting ball handling there is definitely a an ad for the Clippers. Terrence Mann had been kind of pushed to the edge of their rotation, which is weird. I actually really like Terrence, but he fits Atlanta's goal really well, which is Atlanta has been trying to surround Trae Young with athletes, young athletes that can cover for his size and limitations and benefit from his playmaking talent. That is a nice get for Atlanta. There. The Suns turn Yusuf Nurkic and a first round pick into Cody Martin. Vasilaj Micich and a second round pick. Now Micage probably won't play with the point guards that they already have, but Cody Martin is a useful wing athlete on a team that doesn't have many useful wing athletes. And Yusuf Nurkic was useless. So it cost you a protect first, but it was a nice moderate improvement and there was some real urgency here. Again, it's better than nothing, I guess, but I still don't feel like the Suns are going anywhere. The Miami Heat turned P.J. tucker into Davion Mitchell, a guard who can really defend and again, this always brings value in the modern NBA. The ability to guard the ball. And I like Davion is like a kind of guy that you can deploy that just changes the flow of a game. You get into a game and you're playing against, you know, the Nuggets or something like that, or I'm trying to think like just, let's just take any team in the Eastern Conference that has high level guard play. So let's play, say Milwaukee. Play Milwaukee. And Damian Lillard's just lighting up your starters like he's killing Terry Rozier, he's killing Tyler Hair on switches and it's not looking pretty. And you just need to do something to change the flow of the game. You take Davion Mitchell out, you put him out there and you say pick up Dame full course. It can change the tenor of a game. It can disrupt rhythm. Again, he's not the kind of guy that's going to be in your closing five. He's not the kind of guy that you want playing 30 minutes a night. But it's a useful rotation player as a guard who can defend. A kind of guy that can come in and bring ball pressure and change the flow of a game. The last trade we're getting into today, Brandon Ingram to the Toronto Raptors. I actually really like Brandon Ingram. I've talked about this before, but I think he is at his best when you put the ball in his hands and you allow him to run a lot of spread pick and roll. He, compared to most forwards in the league is actually a really gifted passer. I think he's a guy that can raise your offensive floor to a great extent. He actually fits really nice next to Scotty. Like I look at Scotty as like the hammer to the Brandon Ingram scalpel, so to speak. I Scotty, it's interesting because like he's just so physically imposing at times. I was watching. Which game was I watching the other day? I think it was Toronto versus Chicago and he was doing a lot of work, like posting mismatches. He had a run in the third quarter where he like scored bucket after bucket after bucket attacking from the post. But like he just can run into a little bit of a wall on offense. On offense sometimes he has a tendency to settle for fadeaways in the post quite a bit. Like I think bringing in Ingram to make Scotty's life easier on offense is at least a worthwhile endeavor for Toronto to try. And then guess what? You can decide at the end of this year if you want to resign Brandon Ingram to some sort of long term deal and whether or not the deal makes any sense really comes down to what you end up signing Brandon Ingram to. It depends if you get him at a fair deal. Or if you end up having to overpay and time will tell in that regard, the team isn't going anywhere, but it's certainly a hell of a lot more fun after this. All right, guys, that's all I have for today. As always, I sincerely appreciate you guys for supporting me and supporting the show. I am very excited to get back into it, breaking down some games, talking about these players on their new teams. As of right now, we might be going live tonight after Warriors, Lakers, depending on whether or not Steph plays. So keep an eye on my Twitter feed. We might have another episode tonight. If not, we'll be coming out tomorrow. Then we always have our mailbags like we usually do on Friday. And then time to start breaking down games. We plan on covering the Pacers, Lakers, Luka Doncic, his debut on Saturday. I'm looking forward to that as well. Again, I really appreciate you guys for rocking with me and I will see you either tonight or tomorrow morning. The Volume what's up guys? As always, I appreciate you for listening to and supporting Hoops tonight. It would actually be really helpful for us if you guys would take a second and leave a rating and a review. As always, I appreciate you guys supporting us, but if you could take a minute to do that, I'd really appreciate it. Some people just know they could save hundreds on car insurance by checking Allstate First. Like, you know to check. You have the tickets in your wallet first before you drive two hours to the big game. Seriously, you had one job, now the closest you'll get to the 50 yard line is parking lot D. Yeah, checking first is smart. So check Allstate first for a quote that could save you hundreds. You're in good hands with Allstate Savings.
- [53:25]
Bobby Bones
Vary terms apply.
- [53:26]
Unnamed Host
Allstate Fire and Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates Northbrook, Illinois hey, it's Bobby Bones.
- [53:31]
Matt Castle
Join me and former NFL quarterback Matt Castle every Wednesday for our new podcast, Lots to say with Bobby Bones and Matt Castle. Between us, we have over 17,500 passing yards, multiple New York Times bestsellers, and one mirrorball trophy from Dancing with the Star. So where else are you gonna find a show with that much athleticism and football insight? We talk sports, but we talk pop culture and music and a little bit of everything. Listen to Lots to Say with Bobby Bones and Matt Castle on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.