← The Herd with Colin Cowherd
The Herd with Colin Cowherd
Hoops Tonight - OKC Thunder are PERFECTLY set up to be NBA's next great DYNASTY | NBA Mailbag
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- [00:00]
Michelle Williams
This is an iHeart podcast.
- [00:05]
Memphis Bleak
What up y' all? This your main man, Memphis Bleak, right here.
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Michelle Williams
Host the Rock Solid Podcast.
- [00:09]
Memphis Bleak
June is Black Music Month, so what.
- [00:11]
Michelle Williams
Better way to celebrate than listening to my exclusive conversation with my bro, Ja Rule? The one thing they can't stop you or take away from you is knowledge. So whatever I went through while I was down in prison for two years through that process, learn, learn from it. Check out this exclusive episode with Ja Rule on Rock Solid. Open your free iHeartRadio app, search rock Solid and listen now. I also wanna address the Tonys on a recent episode of Checking in with Michelle Williams. I open up about feeling snubbed by the Tony Awards, do I? I was never mad. I was disappointed because I had high hopes to hear this and more on Disappointment and Protecting youg Peace. Listen to Checking in with Michelle Williams Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Why is a soap opera western like Yellowstone so wildly successful? The American west with Dan Flores is the latest show from the Meat Eater Podcast Network. So join me starting Tuesday, May 6, where we'll delve into stories of the west and come to understand how it helps inform the ways in which we experience the region today. Listen to the American west with Dan.
- [01:30]
Memphis Bleak
Flores on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. I know a lot of cops.
- [01:37]
Michelle Williams
They get asked all the time, have.
- [01:39]
Memphis Bleak
You ever had to shoot your gun?
- [01:41]
Michelle Williams
Sometimes the answer is yes.
- [01:43]
Memphis Bleak
But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. This is Absolute Season one, Taser Incorporated.
- [01:52]
Michelle Williams
I get right back there and it's bad.
- [01:55]
Memphis Bleak
Listen to Absolute Season 1 Taser Incorporated on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [02:06]
Michelle Williams
The volume.
- [02:10]
Memphis Bleak
The NBA Finals are here. This is your last chance to bet on the NBA until next season. And DraftKings Sportsbook, an official sports betting partner of the NBA, is pulling out all the stops to make this a finals to remember. One team will be crowned champ and the other will be lost to history. Who you got winning it all? Put your hoops expertise to the test. All season long, DraftKings has been the go to spot for NBA player props and that doesn't stop now. Who's going to carry their team to the chip? Try placing a bet on your personal MVP to drop 30, 40, or maybe even over 50. Ready to place your own bet? Download the DraftKings sportsbook app, lock in your bets and finish the season as a winner. Here's something special for first timers. New DraftKings customers bet $5 to get $300 in bonus bets. If your bet wins, don't miss your last chance to bet on the NBA this season. Download the DraftKings sportsbook app and use code HOOPS. That's H O O P S. That's code hoops for new customers to get $300 in bonus bets. If your bet wins when you bet five bucks only on DraftKings, the crown is yours. Gambling Problem Call 100 Gambler in New York, call 877-8-HOPE NY or text Hopeny to 467369 in Connecticut. Help is available for problem gambling. Call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org Please play responsibly on behalf of Boot Hill Casino and Resort in Kansas. 21 plus. Age and eligibility varies by jurisdiction. Void in Ontario. Bet must win to receive reward. Minimum minus 500 odds required bonus bets expire 168 hours after issuance. For additional terms and responsible gaming resources, see dkng co/audio all right, welcome to Hoops Tonight here at the Volume. Happy Tuesday everybody. Hope all of you guys are having a great start to your week. Well just like we did after game one, we are going to do a mailbag that covers all your guys's quest questions about the NBA Finals. Some stuff around the rest of the league as well. We got a question about where LeBron's next best chance to win the title would be. We're going to talk about some potential trades for the Cleveland Cavaliers, some big picture basketball stuff. We might even go into some different sports down at the tail end of the mailbag where we're going to hit all of the NBA Finals related stuff off the top. You guys know the drill. Before we get started, subscribe to the Hoops Tonight YouTube channel so you don't miss any more of our videos. Follow me on Twitter at_jason lt so you guys don't miss show announcements. Don't forget about our podcast feed wherever you get your podcast under Hoops Tonight. It's also super helpful if you leave a rating and a review on that front. Jackson's doing great work on our social media feeds on Twitter, Instagram and Facebook. Make sure you guys follow us there and then last but not least, keep dropping mailbag questions in the chat so that we can get to them in our mailbags at the tail end of our live streams. All right, let's talk some basketball. So our first Question is kind of a big picture question surrounding the Thunder in their future. Do you pay J Dub and Chet the supermax if they qualify next year? Now, in terms of the details surrounding the supermax, it obviously depends on, you know, whether or not Chet makes an all NBA team next year, things along those lines. But I'm going to try to reframe this question around the idea of, let's just say max contracts. In theory, if you're building a roster, as we've seen around the NBA, it can get a little tough once you have three max contract players to fill the rest of the roster. And like even just in the big picture, it's about whether or not they can continue to surround these guys with enough talent. Now, I am generally of the belief that it's not so much whether or not you can build a roster around three max players. It's are these three players the kinds of max players that are good enough to justify that type of, of resource distribution? And the short answer is yes, I absolutely think they are. When we talk about team build, I tend to focus on these different archetypes at each position group, right? And when I look at everything in a vacuum, like irrespective of stars because stars bring kind of unicorn traits to the table, right? Like Jokic doesn't look like any other center around the league. Steph Curry doesn't look like any other point guard around the league. Giannis Antenna, Kumpo or Luka Doncic. These guys don't look like traditional players. Even Shea in and of himself is like an old school mid range scoring two guard is very rare around the NBA. But one of the concepts that I always talk about is like, ideally I want to have like a skill guard, a guard that is an excellent passer, shot, creator, floor general, all that kind of stuff. An athlete guard, a guard that can guard the other team's best guard but also can drive closeouts and bring, you know, some more of the power element to that position group. And then at the forward spots, I like having like a big physical forward. And then I like having more of a slender, wiry, perimeter oriented forward. And then you want a big that can defend in multiple coverages, a big that brings defensive versatility. And so as I go down the list, if Shea and J Dub and Chet are my core, I think all three of those don't just fit into those groups but legitimately bring more to the table. Like Shai is very much the prototypical skill guard in that he is a guy that can be the offensive engine For a team. We saw him have one of his best offensive engine types of games of his career in game two of the finals. Right. But Shea also brings legitimate athletic traits to the table. Shay is a very good defensive player when he's engaged, right. So like, he doesn't bring a lot of the shortcomings that typically come with skill guards. J Dub think of him as like a combination of a bunch of different things. He is a guy that can do some of that athletic guard stuff in terms of guarding elite guards and bringing more power to that position. But at the same time, he can be a lot like what we see from a lot of four men in terms of bringing like power ball handling to the table. I even think there's a lot of big picture potential for J Dub as like kind of a bully ball matchup attacker that he's still just barely scratching the surface of what he's capable of being. And then Chet, he is the prototypical big man that can defend in low drop, defend in high drop, defend in switches, defend in zone. His defending in switches was a huge part of Oklahoma City's defensive success in game two against the Pacers. But also Chet brings the ability to be a legitimate perimeter offensive weapon while still being the same vertical spacing threat that so many of his peers are at the center position. So to make a long story short, I think Shay, J Dub and Chet compliment each other extremely well. They're all on the same age timeline. All three of them have traits that extend out from what you would expect from their specific position group. I absolutely think that you can commit long term money to all three of those guys and still build a championship roster around them. Again, when you have players that play the way that these guys do and that check all the boxes that these guys check, it actually just makes for smaller and more achievable roles down the roster for your teammates. And that just makes the general manager's job that much easier. Next question. After game two, you talked about how SGA did a much better job of playing the floor game. He invested in his own teammates, which allowed for people like Chet to get going. Do you expect Shay to keep that good floor game going as they go to Indiana? Love the show. So first of all, I. This has been a subject of some of the debate after the first two games. Right. We in. I noticed some of you guys disagreed after my game two. Instant reaction for the way I characterized Shay's Game one. Kevin o' Connor came on the show yesterday and similarly said the same thing. And I want to clarify, in the sense that I shouldn't be saying Shay played bad in game one. He didn't play bad in game one. That's over dramatic. That said, I did think the box score was not necessarily a very accurate reflection of the way that he played. Like I did think Shay played substantially better in Game 2 and he had 38 points in Game 1. But the big giveaway to me is we talked about in that show, if you remember, off the top, I discussed the concept of floor game being a job that a ball handler does or that ball handler has a responsibility he has that extends beyond assists and extends beyond points and goes to, you're the engine of the offense. You are responsible for the rhythm and flow of your team's offense as the primary ball handler. Right. And The Thunder scored 20 more points per 100 possessions in the half court in game two than they did in game one. Does variance play a role in that? Sure. But what do I always say? For me, variance is going to be pretty far down the list behind basketball dynamics. And even though the box score showed a very productive offensive night in game one for Shea, I thought specifically early in the game he shot his team out of rhythm by taking a lot of mediocre contested pull up jump shots early in the clock in game two, I thought he made the appropriate investments in rhythm and flow early and it manifested in better ball movement, better rhythm and flow for his offense, and 20 more points per 100 half court possessions. And so again, I just wanted to clarify that because I, I did use the word he played bad in game two and that's just dumb. He didn't play bad, he just compare on the range of potential outcomes for Shay games, I thought that trended more towards the low end. And before you tell me, oh well, he had 38 points. You go look at his scoring totals, he always gets. He's one of the most reliable high volume scorers in the league. But there are differing outcomes for Shay in terms of his floor game, in terms of just the way he manages, the way his offense is flowing. And I did think that Shea played substantially better in game two. Now, do I expect Shay to keep that going? Yes. Shay, you know, is a little bit more old, is a little bit older and more experienced than people think. I talked about this concept last night. The thing with young basketball players is they struggle to identify failures and minimize them and they struggle to identify successes and repeat them. Right. But with each passing series, with each passing moment for this Oklahoma City team, they seem to be growing and to be learning from their mistakes. And I do think that Shea learned quickly after game one that that's not the way that he needs to attack. And I think he made that adjust, and I expect him to. To attack game three in a very similar manner. Now, that said, Indiana's really good, and they could go up by 12, 15 points at some point during Game 3. And it's possible that at that point, Shea reverts back to some hero ball, but that's just part of his archetype as a scoring guard. I think, overall, I think I can expect, or we can expect his floor game to more closely mimic game two moving forward in the series. Next question. With Jairus Walker out, do you think Rick Carlisle. Who do you think Rick Carlisle turns to as the next opportunity to give them something? I don't think this is a dig deeper in the bench type of series. I think this is on the guys that are playing right now. And a lot of it with the bench guys is about making better decisions. You know, Obi toppin, not as good a game in game two. Some aggressive forces in traffic against rim protection instead of moving the ball. Ben Mather, in several examples of plays where he got into the teeth of the defense instead of taking easy reads that were available to him. Guys just have to play better. And then as a group, the Pacers kind of in this series have a tug of war in terms of their offensive execution. When they take care of the ball and they get the ball at the floor quickly and they run multiple actions on the same possession, they break Oklahoma City's defense down incrementally and they get good looks. When they get stagnant, when they start turning the ball over, things start to fall apart for them. And so I don't think this is like a dig deeper in the roster. We need a different player to solve our problems. I think it's on the group to just play better. Next question. Do you think Pascal comes out more aggressive to score tonight? Obviously, I'm assuming you mean Wednesday night. They need him playing like he did in the Knicks series, and it feels like he's just gotten off to slow starts this far. I. I do think that we'll see an aggressive Pascal in game three. I think in general, the Pacers kind of got away from some of the success they had in game one, hunting size mismatches with their bigs in the post. And I thought it just was a lack of intentionality in terms of the way that they were hunting shots. I thought that they were a little too quick to take early clock, decent threes and I'm not opposed to those shots. We all know pace, the Pacers can make those shots, but I didn't think they did enough of a job establishing the post early and often in game too. And Pascal is just the obvious pathway to make that happen. And so I do think that we will see a more aggressive Pascal, a more aggressive Turner, a lot more damage being done in the paint in Game 3. You've talked about how Oakley OKC's offense isn't really the main force of this team. My question is, is the Pacers defense able to make significant adjustments to take game, to take one or two games at home? So I, I'm really curious to see how Rick Carlisle comes out to guard in game three. We talked about this concept in depth with Kevin o' Connor yesterday, so I won't go into too much detail today. If you guys haven't had a chance to check that pot out, I highly recommend it. Kevin was fantastic and we got into a bunch of the details in the series, but I, I'm really curious to see how they come out and guard. I thought that the at the level coverages for the Pacers didn't work very well through the first two games. Again, like they're not going up to the level to take away the pull up jump shot. They're not worried about Shay coming off and rising up from three doesn't make enough of them for that really to be the issue. They're bringing the man up to the level to try to stop Shay from getting ahead of steam. But what ends up happening is when you come up to the level of the screen, you pick a side. So in a drop coverage, imagine this like as Shay's coming off of a screen, if you're in a drop coverage, you're sitting lower and if he comes off the screen this way, you're ready. If he rejects the screen and goes off the other way, you're ready, right? But if you're up at the level, you're picking a side of the screen that you're coming up to the level to show. And so if you come up to the level and then Shay decides to drive the opposite direction, suddenly if he beats that man, there's nobody behind in that two on two right? Now all of a sudden you're in rotation, you've now put yourself into a four on three and it was a lot of rejecting screens and all of a sudden no one's there to help coming off the screen and splitting the action. So if you come up to the level and you show and Shay comes off, but he just splits right in between you two, same sort of thing. It's a four on three. You come up to the level in the screener slips, you pitch it over the top. Same thing, four on three. I just thought that the Thunder were operating in a four on three far too often in that game. And so I'm really curious to see if Rick Carlisle makes the adjustment of either doing some more soft switching. Meaning, like have the defender that switches switch a little bit further back to try to bait them into some early pull up threes or in more of a deeper drop coverage in ball screen so that when Shea comes off like this is the way I look at it, if Shea's gonna get downhill anyway, like if you're gonna get beat anyway, then you might as well have a fourth defender in the action rather than have three defenders in the action trying to rotate out of that situation. Right? So like, we'll see. I think, I think we could see Carlisle come out with the same coverage to start game three and just banking on the crowd and the intensity and the urgency, kind of just bringing a better on ball effort from the Pacers and maybe that's what he ends up doing. But I also think that it's in the cards that Carlisle is going to have to tweak coverage to deeper drop coverage, softer switching, something more of a contain the ball approach to try to keep things in front. Might even see some zone as well. I'll be curious to see how they guard now on the on the other end of the floor, the Pacers defense in there, or excuse me, with the on that end of the floor. Just in general for the Pacers, Oklahoma City has shown a little bit of like a rickety ness on offense in this postseason where they can get knocked off of their foundation. And so in terms of their ability to take the two games at home, it does come down to their defense in the sense that if they get enough stops, that they force enough long jumpers and long rebounds and they can play in transition, they're going to score enough points, especially at home. But the defense is the job. If they can slow down Oklahoma City's offense enough in these two games, that is their best pathway forward in the series. By knocking Oklahoma City off of their offensive foundation, getting out in transition and getting the easy ones, avoiding the loaded up Thunder defense.
- [19:12]
Michelle Williams
Blending Vice's signature dynamic storytelling with the high octane world of sports, Vice Sports brings an exciting and diverse range of programming that goes beyond the game. From action packed live events to gripping behind the scenes documentaries to hard hitting investigative pieces and in depth profiles of athletes, coaches, teams, Vice Sports captures the raw energy, drama and passion that makes sports truly unforgettable. Catch live events and other exclusive sports programs Only on Vice TV. Go to Vicetv.com to find your cable channel.
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Memphis Bleak
Hi Zoe Saldana, welcome to T Mobile.
- [19:48]
Michelle Williams
Here's your new iPhone 16 Pro on us. Thanks. And here's my old phone to trade in. You don't need a trade in. When you switch to T Mobile, we'll give you a new iPhone 16 plus we'll help you pay off your old Phone up to 800 bucks and you still get to keep it.
- [20:01]
Memphis Bleak
There's always a trade in.
- [20:02]
Michelle Williams
Not right now. @ T Mobile. I feel like I have to give you something in return for karma. That's okay, I don't really have much in my purse. Oh, let's see.
- [20:10]
Memphis Bleak
Hand sanitizer.
- [20:11]
Michelle Williams
It's lavender.
- [20:11]
Memphis Bleak
I'm good.
- [20:12]
Michelle Williams
Seriously. Let me check this pocket. Oh, mints. Really, I'm fine. Oh, I have raisins. I'm a mom. Wait, wait one sec. I've got cupcakes in the car. It's our best iPhone offer forever.
- [20:23]
Memphis Bleak
Switch to T Mobile, get a new iPhone 16 Pro with Apple Intelligence on us. No trade in needed. We'll even pay off your Phone up.
- [20:30]
Michelle Williams
To 800 bucks with 24 monthly bill credits. New line 100 plus a month on experience beyond Finance Agreement 999.99 and qualifying ported for well qualified plus tax and 10 connection charge.
- [20:40]
Memphis Bleak
Pay off the virtual prepaid card.
- [20:42]
Michelle Williams
Allow 15 days credits end amounts due if you pay off earlier. Cancel CT mobile.com the American west with Dan Flores is the latest show from the Meat Eater Podcast Network. Hosted by me writer and historian Dan Flores and brought to you by Velvet Buck, this podcast looks at a West available nowhere else. Each episode I'll be diving into some of the lesser known histories of the West. I'll then be joined in conversation by guests such as Western historian Dr. Randall Williams and best selling author and meat eater founder Stephen Rinella. I'll correct my kids now and then where they'll say when cave people were here. And I'll say it seems like the Ice Age people that were here didn't have a real affinity for caves. So join me starting Tuesday, May 6th where we'll delve into stories of the west and come to understand how it helps inform the ways in which we experience the region today. Listen to the American west with Dan.
- [21:40]
Memphis Bleak
Flores on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [21:46]
Michelle Williams
The OGs of uncensored motherhood are back and badder than ever. I'm Erica. And I'm Mila. And we're the hosts of the Good Moms Bad Choices podcast, brought to you by the Black Effect Podcast Network every Wednesday. Historically, men talk too much, and women have quietly listened, and all that stops here. If you like witty women, then this is your tribe with guests like Corinne Stephens. I've never seen so many women protect predatory men. And then me too happen. But then everybody else want to get pissed off because the white said it was okay. Problem. My oldest daughter, her first day in ninth grade, and I called to ask.
- [22:18]
Memphis Bleak
How I was doing.
- [22:18]
Michelle Williams
She was like, oh, dad, all they were doing was talking about your thing in class. I ruined my baby's first day of high school. And Slumflower, what turns me on is when a man sends me money. Like, I feel the moisture between my legs when a man sends me money, I'm like, oh, my God, it's go time. You actually sent it. Listen to the Good Moms Bad Choices podcast every Wednesday on the Black Effect Effect podcast network, the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you go to find your podcast. This Pride Month, we are not just celebrating. We're fighting back. I'm George M. Johnson, and my book All Boys Aren't Blue was just named the most banned book in America. If the culture wars have taught me anything, it's that pride is protest. And on my podcast, Fighting Words, we talk to people who. Who use their voices to resist, disrupt, and make our community stronger. This year, we are showing up and showing out. You need people being like, no, you're.
- [23:17]
Memphis Bleak
Not going to tell us what to do.
- [23:19]
Michelle Williams
This regime is coming down on us, and I don't want to just survive. I want to thrive. You'll hear from trailblazers like Bob the Drag Queen to freedom Angelica Ross. We ready to fight? I'm ready to fight. And Gabrielle Union.
- [23:33]
Memphis Bleak
Hi.
- [23:33]
Michelle Williams
Chores and storytellers with wisdom to spare. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [23:43]
Memphis Bleak
All right, we've got five more questions today that kind of center around the rest of the league. First question. What is LeBron's best shot at a fifth ring? So this has been something that I've thought quite a bit about since the disappointing exit for my Lakers in the first round against the Minnesota Timberwolves. But this idea of, like, okay, the. The Lakers have some realities in terms of the future surrounding Luca and LeBron being a very, very expensive old player that still plays at a level that's deserving of the money, but comes with some realities in terms of when he does tail off, he'll present a barrier between, you know, in terms of roster allocation, between what the Lakers are going to be and what they are now. Right. Similarly, he's, you know, going to be 41 next year by the time they make it to the postseason, and it's just going to be really difficult for. It's going to be really difficult for him to. To, you know, find an extended Runway to try to make something happen. So if he goes anywhere, it'd have to be a win now type of situation. Seen lots of things thrown around, and when I start to dig into it, it's like, okay, let's say. Let's say he got traded to the Cleveland Cavaliers. I've seen versions of trades thrown around with, like Darius Garland and Jared Allen, for instance, for LeBron. So let's say it's LeBron and Evan Mobley and Donovan Mitchell and, you know, obviously that deep core of good role players in Cleveland, like, that's a good team, right? How much better is that than him next to Luka Doncic in a revenge campaign? Right. Let's say he goes to Golden State. If they. If they were to pull some sort of magic along Those lines, like LeBron, Steph and Draymond, it's a really good team. I think LeBron would be such an amazing, natural basketball fit in the Golden State system. But do I think that, you know, old LeBron and old Stephen with Draymond is a better chance to win the title than LeBron James and Luka Doncic in a revenge campaign? You start to, like, poke around a different option. So what if he goes to the Knicks? Okay, so it's LeBron and OGN and Obi and Mikhail Bridges and Jalen Brunson. It's really good team, really fun team, Open Eastern Conference. There's a lot of, like, kind of elements involving the east that make that somewhat interesting. But is it better than LeBron with a Luka Doncic on a revenge campaign is what I keep coming back to. I talked about this a little bit last night. Luka did not have a good postseason. Never really got fully back into rhythm after his injury this year. Looked in pretty poor condition in that first round series. But I really do think we're going to get a very, very engaged version of Luka next year and a Very well conditioned version of Luka next year. And when Luka Doncic is healthy and in rhythm, he's one of the very best players in this league. Last year, if you guys remember in our like who's got the belt video after the season, I literally said that it was Luka after beating the guy that beat the guy and being more or less the most impressive player in the postseason last year. So as I look at it, I keep coming back to this idea that, like, give me Luka Doncic in a season where he's supremely motivated next to, you know, this deep roster of, well, not as deep as it needs to be and they'll need to make some changes this year, but they've got some high level players. Rui Hachimura is a high level player. Austin Reeves is a high level player. Dorian Finney Smith is a good role player. Jared Vanderbilt's capable of being a good role player. Right? Like they've got, you know, they've got guys and so they've got to make some changes. They got to find a center. They might have to seriously consider moving a guy like Austin Reeves or Rui Hachimura. That is a redundancy, but that's a vehicle with which to bring in additional talent. And I keep coming down to, if you give me a group of athletes that can do that, are versatile enough to do the dribble, shoot pass defend stuff that they'll need to do off of LeBron and Luka, give me Luka and LeBron and I think you got a better chance than some of these other situations that have been pitched around the league. So I've thought through a lot and I've seen a bunch of stuff get pitched and I keep coming back to if, if LeBron gets a fifth ring, which obviously is a supreme long shot at this point, I think it happens alongside Luka. And so with that being the case, I, I, I think that in all likelihood LeBron sees that too. And I think LeBron will be a Laker when it's all said and done. Do you believe trading a guard from the Cavs will unlock Mobley? So this is complicated because obviously Evan Mobley I think has developed as an offensive player. We saw a lot of like the inverted ball screen action with guys like Sam Merrill and Darius Garland slipping out of action with him this year. Donovan Mitchell slipping out of action with him this year, becoming a kind of like a worthwhile action for the Cavs. We saw him in general just become a better driving kick player when he gets downhill he's developed a three point shot that is semi reliable like Evan Mobley's developed a lot. But I don't think Evan Mobley's about to go, you know, pull a Palo Banchero and become this like super high volume on ball player. At least not anytime soon. I think he's years away from developing that sort of game. To me, trading a guard for the Cavs is about resource allocation. If you're going to have two high volume on ball guards, then you need to reap the rewards of having two high volume on ball guards. And every year Darius Garland has been banged up and lacking a little bit of that quickness. And even when he's been healthy, he struggled to be super effective in the postseason setting. It just hasn't really materialized. And it comes with the downsides of like, when he's injured, all of a sudden you're just down a, like a very expensive contract slot that you're not getting anything out of or when he's being attacked on defense because of his size limitations. Like, there's a certain amount of like when Darius Garland is not at his peak. It doesn't look like a championship roster. And so if you believe that Darius is going to like, come together and put it all together and be healthy and be the best version of himself when it matters, then yeah, it's worth sticking with it. But like, at a certain point, you've got to read the room and be like, okay, this guy's just kind of struggled to hold up physically and, and maybe this doesn't ever come to fruition, right? And so what trading a guard would do is not so much to me about unlocking Evan Mobley as like some sort of super high powered offensive weapon. It would be about trading Darius Garland for just a much more reliable fifth guy. Right. When you started to dig into it this year, it was like, oh man, Jared Allen didn't really materialize into a reliable playoff player this year. Neither did DeAndre Hunter, neither did Ty Jerome. Like all of a sudden you zoomed out from that playoff run and it was like, man, Donovan Mitchell and Max Stru and, and Evan Mobley were like the only three Cavs that you felt really good about throughout that postseason run. And so bringing in another wing, a guy that is basically like a really, really high level starting version of a DeAndre Hunter that can slot Max Struse at the two and give yourself a little bit more, you know, just reliable ceiling when you get to the postseason would be something worth exploring. But again, it's all about. It's. That doesn't mean you just trade Darius Garland for the sake of trading Darius Garland. It's just something that I would consider if the right opportunity came up for a really, really high level player at the small forward position. What would be your ideal play style for a relatively smallish point guard to be one of your star max players on a championship team, what play style would you choose as a building block? Not Curry obviously, because he's one of one. This is an interesting question and I think the Pacers are honestly a really, really smart kind of like, like, like model for how to do this. So first of all, I don't think the Thunder count because all their guards are great defenders. But when you got a small ish point guard who's not an elite defender, what kind of play style do you need to play? I think it's all about being fast. You got to lean into the strength, right? What is that smallish point guard going to be great at? He's going to be great at being fast. How has Indiana's defense managed to be still serviceable despite having Tyrese Halliburton out there? Well, he throws really aggressive hedges and he recovers fast in rotation. And as a team they're just great in rotation. They run and sprint around and they cover ground. I don't think you could have a small guard and then also be a slow team. I think you have to be fast. And so Indiana to me is the model of how you would build around a a like let's say that you're the Heat and you've got Tyler Herro or you're, you know, the Hornets and you've got Lamelo Ball or you're the Wizards and you've got Jordan Poole like just a, a small but fast like skill guard who's like the foundational player for your offense. I think you've got to surround that dude with a lot of athletic like athletic like kind of versatile. Do everything. Guys that can play fast, exist in rotation and just cover ground behind what that player does. And then it also accentuates what they do offensively because most fast guards like to play fast. Two more questions. What are some of the top traits you look for in a non big role player? Things like perimeter speed you've mentioned in the past look to be dead on. So yeah, I think perimeter speed's a big one just because inevitably you've got to do a certain amount of existing in rotation in the NBA. I also think in general the game has existed more in transition so as the game exists more in transition, you got to have guys that can get up and down the floor, not just running the floor on offense for buckets, but also getting back in your transition defense, right? I think from there it's the, it's the big four. It's triple shoot, pass and defend, right? What that means is you've got a star somewhere on the roster. It doesn't matter where that is. It doesn't matter if it's point guard, two guard, three, four, five, right. Wherever that star is, he's going to create advantages. Once you have that advantage, if you're wide open, you need a guy who can knock down the three. If he's got a closeout, he's got to be able to attack the closeout. Once he attacks that closeout, he's got to be able to, to make the reads, right? So that's the dribble and pass element, there's the shooting element, there's the dribble and pass element, the defend. I'm going to tie all of these things up into athleticism, right? So like the athleticism to drive a closeout and finish at the rim, the athleticism to fly up and down the floor and transition, the athleticism to guard the ball, all of that stems around that defense concept. So, like, if you have a role player that's playing off of a star, you need him to, to be able to play with an advantage, which means knock down shots, drive closeouts, make reads, and then you need to be able to have him exist within what you're trying to do defensively. The only other thing that I would add there is just overall competitiveness and motor. I think this is one of the most underrated things in the league right now. You. If you're going to build out a real championship character in your team where guys are always in the right spots and they always do the right thing and you pay attention to detail and just be more like the Pacers, for lack of a better word. You got to have some competitive dudes that hate losing and that are willing to do the things that suck to win basketball games. And so I think the personality trait is a big part of it as well. Last question. Saw your baseball tweet the other day. Any secret baseball fandom you're willing to share? So, like most kids, I, I grew up watching all sports and I've always been a fan of all sports. I grew up watching a ton of hockey. My dad's from Detroit, right. I grew up playing little league baseball. I used to Watch every single Arizona Diamondbacks game. Growing up, I am a huge football fan. I used to watch the NFL very closely and consume a lot of NFL content. I haven't done nearly as much of that, obviously, since I started doing this for a living, just because this takes so much of my time and attention. But I still love the NFL and every year in September, I pretend I'm going to follow it more closely. And then by like week seven or eight, I'm just completely invested in the NBA. But I. I have always loved sports. All sports. I love watching golf. I still put golf on a lot on the weekends and I love to play golf. And I, I just, you know, it's the way that my job is currently structured. I'm very basketball focused. I can't promise that'll always be the case, but maybe it will. Maybe I'll always just do basketball stuff, but I do have a love for all sports, baseball in particular. I grew up in a family that was very baseball oriented. We all played baseball grow. And I. When the D backs made their World Series run a couple years ago, that was when I kind of had that love reinvigorated for me where I was like watching every single postseason game and getting super, super invested just because that was something that was such a big part of my life when I was younger. But yeah, like, basketball is, is the thing that has given me everything that I have in my life and the thing that I love the most. But I have always had a love and appreciation for other sports and it just isn't something that we get to talk too much about on the show. But who knows? Maybe in the future that'll be something we explore more. All right, guys, that's all we have for today. As always, I sincerely appreciate you guys for supporting me and supporting the show. We will be back on Wednesday night after the final buzzer of game three. Colin Coward should be there this time. He had a flight get delayed last night, that's what. Or on Sunday night. That's why we didn't get him for game two, but we should have him for game three. We'll be breaking down everything after that game. We will see you guys then. What's up, guys? As always, I appreciate you for listening to and supporting Hoops tonight. It would actually be really helpful for us if you guys would take a second and leave a rating and a review. As always, I appreciate you guys supporting us, but if you could take a minute to do that, I'd really appreciate it.
- [37:41]
Michelle Williams
The volume. I also want to address the Tonys On a recent episode of Checking in with Michelle Williams, I open up about feeling snubbed by the Tony Awards. Do I? I was never mad. I was disappointed because I had high hopes to hear this and more on disappointment and protecting your peace. Listen to Checking in with Michelle Williams from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [38:15]
Memphis Bleak
What up y' all? This your main man, Memphis Bleak right.
- [38:17]
Michelle Williams
Here, host of Rock Solid Podcast.
- [38:20]
Memphis Bleak
June is Black Music Month, so what.
- [38:22]
Michelle Williams
Better way to celebrate than listening to my exclusive conversation with my bro Ja Rule? The one thing they can't stop you or take away from you is knowledge. So whatever I went through while I was down in prison for two years through that process, learn. Learn from it. Check out this exclusive episode with Ja Rule on Rock Solid. Open your free iHeartRadio app, search rock Solid and listen. Now.
- [38:46]
Memphis Bleak
I know a lot of cops.
- [38:47]
Michelle Williams
They get asked all the time, have.
- [38:49]
Memphis Bleak
You ever had to shoot your gun?
- [38:51]
Michelle Williams
Sometimes the answer is yes.
- [38:53]
Memphis Bleak
But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. This is Absolute Season 1 Taser Incorporated.
- [39:02]
Michelle Williams
I get right back there and it's bad.
- [39:06]
Memphis Bleak
Listen to Absolut Season 1 Taser Incorporated on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [39:16]
Michelle Williams
Why is a soap opera Western like Yellowstone so wildly successful? The American west with Dan Flores is the latest show from the Meat Eater Podcast Network. So join me starting Tuesday, May 6, where we'll delve into stories of the west and come to understand how it helps inform the ways in which we experience the region today. Listen to the American west with Dan.
- [39:40]
Memphis Bleak
Flores on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [39:45]
Michelle Williams
This is an iHeart podcast.