← The Herd with Colin Cowherd
The Herd with Colin Cowherd
Hoops Tonight - Reaction to BIZARRE LeBron James & Lakers situation w/ Jovan Buha
00:39:57
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Podcast Host
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- [01:43]
Colin Cowherd
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Colin Cowherd
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Yovon Buha
Foreign.
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AT&T Advertiser
Welcome to Hoops tonight here at the Volume. Happy Friday everybody. Hope all of you guys are having a great start to your weekend. Yovon Buha I was just joking before we started up here. I've met Jovan and and Adam Mares in the last couple of weeks in person for the first time. Yovon and I have worked together a lot over the last couple of years, but this is our first time meeting in person. Both dudes just as tall as I am. Was not expecting that. Yovon is a giant. I think he might actually be a little bit taller than me. But it's good to see you dude. It's good to finally meet you in person. And this is one of those days where I'm very thankful for what we do for a living because I'm reading the Ramona Shelburne and Brian Windhorse piece this morning and I'm just progressively getting more and more Irritated and annoyed. And I was like, this is awesome because I get to sit down with Yovon and we can just talk. Talk shit and get it off our chest. So I'm just, I'm stoked about this. But before we get to the LeBron stuff, I. Obviously, we got to see Bronnie versus Cooper flag last night. Did you have any big picture takeaways from last night's game?
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Yovon Buha
I really like Cooper flag's game. Obviously 5 for 21 didn't shoot the ball the way that he wanted to. He called it one of the worst games of his career. And I don't know if I'd agree with, like, I, I thought he had a pretty good game outside of the shooting and he's got to figure out like the, the pull up midi contested. I, I think that's a shot that he needs to get a little bit better at. And I didn't love some of the shot selection, but I like the aggression. And you could just tell he has a certain feel for the game with the passing. They're playing him at point guard. You saw the Lakers blitz him on the first possession, which I thought was a nice little touch from their coaching staff. But I think I really like his game. I think he's very multifaceted. You also have to remember he's 18 years old and like, this guy should be going into his freshman year at Duke and for him to be the best player on the floor for stretches there, like, I just thought it was a. It wasn't like the Zion debut or the 1B debut, but like, I think he's going to be a special player.
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AT&T Advertiser
One of the things I always notice when I go to games in person is I become incredibly unaware of the box score. But it almost is like the best because then I get such a strong feel for the player's floor game and all the little things that they're doing. And it's actually funny because I got back to the hotel last night the same thing. I like looked up the box score or saw a tweet. Someone just put. Posted the tweet and it was like 5 for 21 from the field. And I was like, oh God, that is a stinky box score. But I was like, I just didn't think he played that poorly. Like he missed his jump shots.
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Yovon Buha
Yeah.
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AT&T Advertiser
But like, and there were. I. I'm glad you brought up the specific shot selection stuff because there were a couple of examples where I thought he like, like took the wrong approach for the matchup. He was attacking, like, yeah, you don't want to go at Darius Bazley one on one. He's not your best matchup out here. Like, if you're going to go to the post and work post fades, do it against a size mismatch. Get a mismatch in advance. Or like the play where he did get Cole Swider on the switch late in the game, I thought he just kind of rushed and took a tough shot. Like there's things that he could slow down and be better at. Then obviously the jump shot's a swing factor for him. Like he got a lot of good looks on jump shots in that game as well. But I want to talk about Bronnie for just a second too. I, you know Bronnie, they come out, they come out the gates and they immediately start running these like ball screen actions for him at the top of the key. Had a lot of on ball reps in this game. We had the quote from him, I think it was like about six months ago where they asked him, like, what do you see your role as as an NBA player? And he said, on ball guard. And what I thought was so funny is we kind of saw three different versions of that player last night. You have Ryan Nemhard, who is just like the natural like career on ball player who just looks so comfortable. He's eating up ball pressure, he's getting to his spots, he's showing mid range shot making, he's passing out of the middle of the floor. Then in the middle you have Cooper Flagg, who like is still budding as an on ball player and has really only taken on a ton of on ball responsibility in the last couple of years. But that you can tell he's very naturally gifted at it. And there's obviously all this upside that he's going to get to over the course of the next few years. And then you have Bronnie, who is like both raw and not naturally gifted at it. Not naturally gifted at reading the floor. I thought he made several kind of funky pocket passes where it looked like he was kind of telegraphing what he was going to do. He took that floater when he draped in back pressure, which is just not a good shot unless you're grifting like Trey Young. Like there's just, there's all these like different things where I just thought, I feel like Bronnie, this is just missing the boat on what he can be as an NBA player.
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Yovon Buha
Yeah, I, I think. And he talked about this. We had a summer league practice last week and. And he talked about like he acknowledged that he needs to get better on the defensive side of the floor and that's the primary way that he's going to get on the floor at the NBA level. So I think that was like the player archetype coming out was people were comparing him to a Davion Mitchell or a Pat Beverly or an Avery Bradley or like someone like that. And we haven't really seen that Pitbull style. I'm going to pressure you 94ft. We might see it for like flashes or like possessions, but he hasn't really had that like defensive dog yet that I think he's going to need to be someone who's 6 foot 1, 6 foot 2. Like it's hard to be an NBA level rotation player at that size if you aren't capable of defending at a very high level and pressuring and being disruptive. So I think that's the key for him getting rotation minutes with the Lakers team. Now in terms of his on ball stuff, like I'm okay with them trying to develop it because I think we have seen real progress with him from the beginning. Like his first game at the G League compared to his final season stats were like 19, 5 and 5, which is nothing to scoff at. I think he had some really impressive games and he played like 18, 19 games. So it was like a decent sample size for the G League. But I'm okay with them trying to develop it. But I think you got to be careful with like, I think if you're developing him to be like a backup point guard, that's okay. But if this is like for him to like be his primary role as potentially a starter, I don't know if he has that upside in terms of the playmaking and the ball handling at that level, if that makes sense.
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AT&T Advertiser
Yeah, that's my thing is like I look at Ryan Nemhard and I think backup NBA guard. Yeah, like a legitimate, this guy has the ability to become a guy who can come in and play, you know, 18, 22 minutes for a good serious team and run the bench offense. Like I, I. And like there's just a chasm between him and Ronnie. And so it just, it just seems like such a far off dream and it just again, to your point, like the, the defensive potential there, I'd argue like he's really far away from what he's capable of being and what he has been. And so it just feels to me like that needs to be the main target. And to your point, if he made that comment last week, I Think that's a good sign that his head is at least in the right.
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Yovon Buha
He's got good self awareness. Yeah, but certainly a project at.
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AT&T Advertiser
Gotta get to LeBron, though.
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Yovon Buha
Let's do it.
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AT&T Advertiser
So there's so much weird noise. Obviously. We had all the stuff that happened last month. Seams last night mentioned again LeBron's frustrations with the Lakers. LeBron. Deandre Ayton was asked in a radio hit whether or not he got welcomed to the team by LeBron. He said no, and then said, but Luca did. We had that weird ESPN piece this morning. Now, remember, Ramona Shelburne is very close to Genie Buss. So it's like I didn't look at that as like a something coming from LeBron's camp. I looked at that as something that came. That came from the Lakers. But it's this weird piece just basically kind of laying out some specifics of the dynamic. Like LeBron was absent from a brain trust meeting right after the loss to Minnesota. LeBron was not informed about the sale of the team like Luca was. We obviously know that LeBron loves to sign these one plus one contracts, and the Lakers did not let him do that this time around. What the fuck is going on with this LeBron stuff?
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Yovon Buha
It's been weird. I'll say. I started hearing in February that a contract extension was unlikely to occur between the two sides. That's why whenever I talked about it, I would mention the player or him likely opting into the player option, that that was the way that this was headed. I think even them talking about this, like, Project 2027, that's what Laker fans have dubbed it about, like keeping the cap space for 2027. I think that's more about, like, it's the post LeBron plan. Like, I think they're more so looking at, okay, he's going to be. Because in the piece, like they state it, I don't know if it's exactly them reporting it or more speculation, but they basically say, like, the Lakers are moving on from LeBron after this season. Like, this is the final season of LeBron in L. A. He can retire and have his farewell tour in L. A or he can go somewhere else next summer. Like, that was the implication. So if that's the case, then, like all this talk about the future and what the Lakers roster is going to look like season from now or two seasons from now, that's the post LeBron plan. And they're indicating then that they kind of want to ride out this year. Like, you know, be as good as they can while maintaining that flexibility and then go into 20, 26, 27 and 2027, 28, building around Luka Austin and like the next iteration of the Lakers group. So I think for LeBron, he's been the most powerful athlete maybe in American sports history, you know, based on like the player empowerment movement and all the changes that he's helped facilitate. So for him to go from being like the center of the universe on every team he's ever been on and always have the front office and ownership coming to him and, you know, can you do a one plus one, can you do a longer term deal? And now for the first time in his career, it's, we're not offering you this like that. That's got to, you know, I'm. He feels a certain type of way about it, and I don't blame him for that. And that's why I said on my show a few days ago that, like, they're not in the best place right now. And I think that's probably an understatement. But I mean, I, I get it from, I get it from both sides, right? Because if you're Lakers, you're trying to build around Luca, and if you go all in on this roster, it is going to hamstring you with what you can do in the future. But if you're LeBron, you're LeBron and you're used to things and, you know, operating a certain way and they're just not operating that way anymore.
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AT&T Advertiser
So I actually think LeBron is just pissed about the contract. This is my theory because, like, they're better. They got deandre Ayton. That's a substantial upgrade at the biggest weak spot spot in the roster from last year. They are, you know, they lose Dorian Finney Smith, obviously, that had its, like the Dorian Finney Smith thing. Like, I saw a lot of Laker fans get upset about it. I see I'm a little bit more in the middle ground there because you made that deal before Luca signed. Like, you can't, you can't be like, oh, it's poor asset management. The entire trajectory of the franchise shifted after that deal. But like adding Jake Laravia, adding John Drayton, I would argue the Lakers are a better basketball team today than they were last year. So LeBron probably has a certain amount of excitement there. There's also the reality that, like, I think, I think LeBron became aware right away even when the Luca trade first came down. Like, oh, yeah, they're not going to go throw all of our first round draft picks and Dalton connect and everything at at a player for a win now type of move because it doesn't make sense anymore. Luke is 26 years old. I think where LeBron is frustrated and I, I completely side with him on this. He was sixth in MVP voting last year.
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Yovon Buha
I voted for him fifth.
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AT&T Advertiser
He was second team all NBA.
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Yovon Buha
I voted for him first.
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AT&T Advertiser
There was a stretch before he pulled his groin where he legitimately was playing at the level of the very best players in the league. He was playing incredible defense, was averaging as close to a 30 point triple double on sky high efficiency, was going on the road to good teams and picking them apart. LeBron was cooking. And yet was he a lesser player when he came back? He absolutely was. But he was still very, very good in the postseason. I think he was like 25, 9 and 6 on 60% true shooting. He had a 37 point playoff game like LeBron is still very much one of the second tier stars in the NBA. I was joking in the elevator on the way up, like to me, if this was Carl Anthony Towns that was on the roster and he asked for a one plus one, is there any chance they turn him down? No, because of the timeline. He's a younger player. Karl Anthony Towns is not as good at basketball as LeBron James. He wasn't last year, he won't be next year. He probably won't be the year after. And like the thing that bothers me is like all LeBron is saying is I'm still one of the 12 to 13 best players in the NBA and I will be this year. And even if there is some sort of decline in the following season, there are all sorts of players around the league making. James Harden just signed another two year, $80 million deal. Like LeBron is just saying pay me for the basketball player that I am. And I don't blame him for being upset about that. I think LeBron, if they had just given him the one plus one that he wanted, would be sitting here going like, okay, cool, we got DeAndre. I can be here for potentially two additional years if I want to. We're set up if like, if I come into the season and we kick ass and we do a bunch of, of of demonstration of what our upside is, maybe they'll be more aggressive and make a move at that point. I agree that they should be patient and try to find a guy that kind of fits a longer timeline With Luka. I just think he's upset about the contract and I don't blame him for that. Like, do you think, Let me just ask you this. Did LeBron deserve a one plus one?
- [17:19]
Yovon Buha
I think so. I think you could argue from the Lakers perspective that the, you know, if we look at like what Raphael Stone has done with, with Houston and he's, he's negotiated very shrewdly and he's gotten like below market deals or he got Fred Van Vliet to renegotiate at a much almost half of the rate of, you know, his team option that he had with Houston. I think like, you could argue from a, just a pure negotiation standpoint, like not giving LeBron that option and being like, okay, let's just see if you can keep this up for one more year and then next summer you're still worth it. We will give you that, you know, we will resign you to another one year deal and give you another no trade clause or whatever. And so I get it.
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AT&T Advertiser
Prove it again, LeBron.
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Yovon Buha
I know, kind of. But like, which for LeBron, it's like I feel like he feels like he shouldn't have to because he's LeBron. And I think we could also talk about like the mismanagement of really the post Westbrook era of this roster and just of their assets and not going all in around LeBron or for LeBron not really giving him a proper chance to win another championship. Like they've always had these half measures over the last few years and maintaining flexibility with roster spots or maintaining at least one first round pick and like being hesitant to really go for it with LeBron and AD and then they finally get, you know, they strike gold with Luca, then immediately they go get Mark Williams and you know, that doesn't work out. But then now they're trying to kind of figure this plan out for Luca. So I also think that's like another part of it which they call it microaggressions. And the story, which I kind of like, which it was like a timeline of like, yeah, this, this is all like, because LeBron is used to being given the heads up on things, right? And you know, I think there's the, there's the whole LED GM narrative out there. But like he's at least like that's typical NBA custom. You give your superstar a heads up. But he was not given a heads up with the Luca trade. He was not giving up, giving a heads up with the sale. And so I think he just again, kind of feels a certain way about this.
- [19:16]
AT&T Advertiser
I even on that front, like, sit LeBron down at the restaurant and include him in Your plan?
- [19:22]
Yovon Buha
Well, the restaurant thing is funny to me because for those who know la, like Craig's is if you want to be seen by paparazzi and they lead with that in the story. But I'm like, I keep saying that on my show. I'm like, if you want to be photographed or like on tmz, like go to Craig's and walk out the front door, like that's a hot spot for that. So like they clearly, and you had Rob there with the, with the binder and it was like, and that was a few days after. So they were sending their message. Like they've been sending a message since the Luca trade that we're moving on.
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AT&T Advertiser
I, I just look at it as like, I think LeBron still performs his contract, I think. So I think there will come a point probably, like, it's very possible that in that second year he, it starts to become a little bit more of a complicated conversation. But like, unless you have some means with which to replace his salary with players that are going to produce at a higher level level than he does, it's literally at this point just about talent management. And, and that, that's the part that I'm struggling with is like, I, I think LeBron is reasonable enough to understand why you couldn't, you know, package the first and Dalton for a 30 year old Andrew Wiggins. Like, I think LeBron gets that. I, I, I, LeBron's not unreasonable in that sense. I think his frustration centers around the fact that the Lakers are like legitimately showing him a level of disrespect that they did not show Kobe Bryant in a similar position at the tail end of his career when he was not performing up to his contract. And LeBron's like, literally like, he's like, I was staring down the best players in the world last year and going toe to toe with them and playing at the super high level. And like, I'm just not getting that level of respect. And so I don't blame him for having that frustration. Couple of quick questions and then I want to look forward to the kind of the big picture of the team. First of all, if you had to pick right now is LeBron Laker next year?
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Yovon Buha
Yeah, yeah, I would, I haven't changed on that. I think maybe around the trade deadline, you know, depending on how things go, it's just, it's like I don't see him taking a buyout because if he wanted to take a buyout, he should.
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AT&T Advertiser
Have just opted out.
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Yovon Buha
Opted out and then signed some type of free agency deal. Lakers are not going to be like, all right, we'll. We'll eat the, you know, 50 of the 53 million, and you go sign a minimum contract in Cleveland or Dallas or whatever. So I just don't see a buyout being realistic in terms of a trade. It just gets really complicated. If you look at Cleveland with their second apron situation, Dallas could do multiple role players, but, like, you are losing a lot of depth in that situation. Golden State, are they giving up? Like, Jimmy, like, even that, I don't think technically works under the cba. Uh, there's New York, which I guess there's a couple variations there, but he's already said no to the Knicks a couple times and said he doesn't want to play for Dolan. So it gets hard to see, like, a natural trade partner. So I think. I think the big question for LeBron, honestly, is how much longer does he want to play? Like, does. Like, we don't even know for sure if he's playing beyond next season. It seems to be trending that way. But he could have, like, just announced, this is my final season, and that statement would kind of make more sense of. Maybe in that case, he does want them to. To trade the pick, trade Dalton, because it's like, this is my last ride. Give me a shot to win a fifth title. So I think the big thing for him is figuring out, am I playing an extra year or, like, how do I feel about that? And then going from there. Because if he's playing a couple more years, then all right, one more, you know, final year as a Laker next summer is now the big LeBron free agency. You get the farewell toward, is he going back to Cleveland? Is he going to Dallas? Like, where is he going? So I think that's the big thing, but for now, I'll say he. He remains a Laker.
- [22:51]
AT&T Advertiser
I think so, too. I just don't think there's any obvious place for him to go. I think if there was an obvious place for him to go, he'd go. Like, I. I think if.
- [22:59]
Yovon Buha
If there was a team that had cap space that made. That wasn't Brooklyn, that might have been an option. Yeah.
- [23:03]
AT&T Advertiser
Or a team that had a big, bloated salary that they were looking to get rid of that the Lakers could afford to take on with an asset in return or something like that. Like, it just. I. I just. I would be shocked if I didn't see him in a Laker jersey. Do you second quick one, and then we'll get into the team. Do you see any additional moves being made by the team before training camp?
- [23:19]
Yovon Buha
This has been the one that's, that's difficult to cause. If you look at the Lakers the last couple of off seasons, this has been how their off season kind of goes. Is may maybe they trade up in the draft or acquire like, like they like acquiring second round picks, which they did in this past draft. Then they sign a couple guys, then they might like wave someone or do something in the back end, but they pretty much just like roll with that lineup. The last trade they made in like player related trade they made in the off season was August 2022. It was the Pat Bev, Talen Horton Tucker Trade. We're almost three years from that. It's been no trade in the 2023 offseason, no trade in the 2024 offseason. Potentially no trade in the 2025 offseason. Like we have a sample size of. This is kind of how they operate. They like going into the season with 14 guys on the roster. They like going into the season with a first round pick. So history suggests they wave, shake Milton and then just don't do anything else until the season and maybe make a trade closer to the trade deadline. Now I think the thing looming over all of this is the Luca extension and that like can you go to Luka? And I agree with you that they're better, but are they better enough? When you look at what Houston did, when you look at what Denver did, I think right now at best you could argue they're the fourth best team in the West. I would probably put them fifth. I'd still put Minnesota slightly ahead of them. But like can you go to Luka on August 2nd and be like, hey, we got you your boy. Deandre Ayton, you guys are sharing agent. Your friends. Jake Ravia is nine years younger than dfs and you might not know much about his game because he played in Memphis and Sacramento, but like he's this Swiss army knife versatile player who could do a lot of different things. Is that enough for Luka to sign that extension? Like I think he's going to sign it, but I think they might need to do at least one more thing. So I would lean toward them doing something. I would lean more towards small than like medium or big. But could you wave, shake and sign someone to part of the BAE or a minimum contract? Like yes. So I think at a minimum they do something like that. Maybe they end up swinging for the fences and do like a bigger trade for a Wing, I just think based on history and based on the current market, I just, I don't see what's out there other than maybe Wiggins, but the asking price was far too high.
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AT&T Advertiser
Yeah, Wiggins to me, because his, he's in his 30s now. I think if, I think if the Lakers got Andrew Wiggins, they'd be in the top tier in the West. I agree because like Ayton, Wiggins, LeBron, that's the addition of Wiggins and Ayton just makes them so much more athletic in the starting lineup when they were just not athletic enough. And that's just a lot of talent to have eaten Wiggins, LeBron, Reeves and Luca. But I wouldn't do that deal unless it was like Gabe Rui and second round draft compensation. If they could do that, that's great. I agree with you. You want to bring a first into the season because I think that theoretical 20s guy in their mid 20s that can start at the 2 or the 3 is a guy that is not available yet, but that can come available and you want to pounce when he does. That could be a Aaron Neesmith, it could be a Herb Jones. It could be one of these younger wings that plays the two or the three that can defend multiple positions, drive closeouts, hit an open three, that kind of stuff. I think that all is the type of player they should be waiting for to, to, to pounce on. One of the things I like about that kind of player is it's a good bit of asset management. You get an Aaron Nesmith, you get a Herb Jones. This is a guy. These are guys that I, I, Herb, we haven't seen play in the postseason, but these are guys that I think play valuable architects.
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Yovon Buha
Herb would be perfect with Luka and Austin. That's like the perfect third guy there.
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AT&T Advertiser
Absolutely. And I like Herb. I like Herb as an offensive player when he has a great advantage. And I just think Luke is going to be able to set him up with that sort of thing. But I think it makes sense to wait until, until something actually comes available for that. So with that being the case, what's your opinion on this roster overall as currently constructed with LeBron coming back?
- [27:06]
Yovon Buha
I think I'd put them fifth in the West. So I just did a mailbag that dropped today and I got asked like, how far can they go? And I said, I think the west to me is like a giant game of rock, paper, scissors as we've seen over the last few years. So depending on the side of the bracket, they're on Depending on the matchups, I could see a conference finals path that they could be a 2019 Blazers, 2023 Lakers, 2025 Wolves. Where on paper they're not the second best team in the conference. But if they get the right matchups or injury luck or whatever, I could see them in the conference finals more realistically. I think they're probably a first or second round team as constructed again depending on the matchups. I think they're better. Again, the question of like better enough. I think Houston got a lot better. I think Denver got a lot better. OKC should be getting better just with internal improvement with their young players and just extra continuity and now the championship confidence. Like so looking at those three teams, I think they're clearly ahead of the Lakers. Minnesota lost. Na, we'll, we'll see what they got some young bench guards that, you know, Dillingham and Shannon and like can one of those guys pop and potentially replace NA in their rotation? Then Golden State, I mean they're a wildcard right now. We don't know what's going on with the Kaminga situation then. Uh, right now they're the favorites to land Al Horford and D Anthony Melton. So they could flip Kaminga into something and get Horford and Melton like all of a sudden they're a more interesting team. The Clippers had a really nice off season with the Collins trade and adding Brook Lopez and then resigning James Harden. So like the west is just brutal and we haven't even mentioned like San Antonio, Dallas, depending on your pain in the. When Kyrie comes back like that they're you know. So right now I would put the Lakers fifth in the west and that I more so mean like I was putting the odds to come out of the conference. I would put them fifth. I could see them being like third or fourth and having a similar season to last year where 50 plus wins, third seed. But like maybe they run into one of those other teams that's maybe a little lower. You know, Denver underachieves for whatever reason. It's a 36 and like they lose to Denver in the first round. So I, I put them fifth. What about you?
- [29:17]
AT&T Advertiser
Yeah, I think there's a clear top tier which is okc, Denver and Houston and I think that everyone else, it's just a crapshoot based on a bunch of different factors. Like, and there's a lot of different like swings in within each team. Like for the Clippers it's like just how many games are you getting out of Kawhi and How good is he when he plays? Yeah, I think even with the Lakers, like the difference between them being the fourth best team in the west and them being the seventh or eighth best best team in the west is like, does Luka go on a revenge campaign and clearly demonstrate himself as the second best player in the world and LeBron plays at a second team all NBA level. Again, like, if that happens, that's two of the top 10 players.
- [29:52]
Yovon Buha
They could be the second best team in the West.
- [29:53]
AT&T Advertiser
They could be the second best Team in the West. Like there's, there's obviously a lot of swing there. Even as you go deeper down the roster. It's like Minnesota. It's like, is Ant going to take the leap as like a more reliable half court scorer and as a more reliable half court operator? Julius Randle in the, in the fit, everything, there's, there's just so many different swings. Dallas health, like if Anthony Davis is healthy and like plays at a top 10 level and Cooper Flag is a natural fit. You and I both know d' Angelo Russell has his issues, but he is a very good offensive player in the regular season on a team that like, will very much benefit from what he brings to the table. What, what if they could support him.
- [30:30]
Yovon Buha
With their defense and size and length? Yeah, like, so it's, it's a good situation for him.
- [30:34]
AT&T Advertiser
And what if Kyrie comes back in March and looks like Kyrie all of a sudden? Dallas could be the third or fourth best team in the West. So like all of that to me is just W in and the, the, if I look at the Lakers roster just like on a more granular level, they're just not athletic enough. That's the thing I keep coming back to as I look at the roster. It's like Luca, below average athlete. Austin, below average athlete. Right now you're starting three is Rui Hachimura for the position average athlete. LeBron slightly above average as a 40 year old maybe when he's engaged, you know, eight and I think is an above average athlete at his position, but he's got motor issues. You go down to the bench and it's like Gabe Vincent's a good athlete, but he's very small. Jared Vanderbilt is a very laterally quick athlete, but he's had health issues in the past and he's not a very good vertical athlete. Dalton, connect to me. I'm like just generally lower on him than all Laker fans are.
- [31:21]
Yovon Buha
I'm with you.
- [31:21]
AT&T Advertiser
I straight up think he's years away from playing a serious Role on a, on a winning basketball team. Like a serious, serious.
- [31:26]
Yovon Buha
The problem is he's 24.
- [31:28]
AT&T Advertiser
Yeah, this is, this is what I'm saying. I just don't see it like I, I, I just don't see it with Dalton and, and I, if I, if, if I was a Lakers and I saw a team that had a value in.
- [31:38]
Yovon Buha
That's why I, I would actually I, in Dalton for Andrew Wiggins. I know on, on paper that seemed might seem like an overpay for some but I think if that is like the, the lowest that Miami will go, I would do that. Personally.
- [31:51]
AT&T Advertiser
The only reason why I could see it as defensive for the record, I would too. But that's because I want to win this year. But if I had to, if I had to play devil's advocate there, what I would say is Wiggins is a depreciating asset. So like I, I would, I would, I would be trying to pursue something for Dalton where I'm getting back a player that has more short term and long term utility. But I would personally do the deal just because I want to see what that team looks like. But yeah, I'm not as high on Dalton in you know as you just go down the roster. I just don't think they're athletic enough. A duthie arrow. Like I've heard that the medical with.
- [32:21]
Yovon Buha
Him is well, he's got, he's got the knee injury right now not playing in summer league and they just, to me they just don't have the perimeter def. Like if you, and this is sort of a subjective thing but if, if you were like looking at all the top teams in the west and you were like who are their three best defenders? The Lakers having Gabe Vincent and Jared Vanderbilt as two of their three best defenders. Compared to some of the like look at what Houston has or look at what OKC has or look at what Minnesota has and like it's just a different weight class entirely in terms of particularly perimeter defense. So I think that that's the biggest reason for me for a potential Wiggins trade or like they just need an athletic defender that can play 30 plus minutes a night because even Vando, I think we haven't like he's dealt with injuries. He had the double foot surgery last year or last summer. But you know, I think he slipped a little bit athletically and he wasn't quite the same defender. But if he can get back to 20, 23, Vando, obviously that's a really high level impactful defender. But even then I think there's limitations to, can he play more than 20 minutes? Can he play more than 25 minutes? And clearly we saw in the playoffs like JJ had him more in like that eighth man role. So I just think there's a limit. Like, I know some people want him to start. I'm like, I just don't see J.J. starting.
- [33:36]
AT&T Advertiser
No, there's no way.
- [33:37]
Yovon Buha
So if that's your best defender and he's your eighth man, like, you're just kind of in a tough spot. So especially with that starting group, like they're going to be big, they're going to be tough to match up with. The offense should be incredible. But you're once again in a situation where Ruiz is your primary forward defender, Austin's your primary backcourt defender. And I think that's problematic.
- [33:58]
AT&T Advertiser
I think their pathway is the Denver pathway, which is like you match up well with OKC because you have big, big forwards that can create shots and that just is a way with which to enter Oklahoma City's defense just like Nikola Jokic was. And then on the defensive end, it's having a few really good defensive players in a really smart scheme where all of the lesser defenders are engaged and then your offense is just indomitable. And I do think that that's achievable for them. I think it would require a player like Wiggin. I think they would need at least that level of player to get to that point. If we're talking about a theoretical bit of contention here from the Lakers, but like I. There's one last like, kind of like variable for me in the potential Lakers ceiling and it's LeBron and Austin's catch and shoot play. I thought Austin, I thought both Austin and LeBron. LeBron was shooting the ball so well before he got hurt, but like after he came back and then Austin, really throughout the season, Austin just is not a good catch and shoot player right now.
- [34:57]
Yovon Buha
Yeah.
- [34:58]
AT&T Advertiser
And playing off of Luka, that's going to be a necessity for them, for them to not be redundant and to experience diminishing returns. I think the Ayton piece is a massive ceiling raiser for their offense. I think Ayton is going to be a monster role man with Luka. Luka has always been really gifted at getting the defender onto his hip even without a screen. And so even some of Ayton's screening weaknesses or he has a tendency to just slip out of screen super fast and roll to the R him. I actually think that works with Luca because Luka's such a good lob thrower and he doesn't really need help getting gerbil penetration. So like there's a lot of upside with the eight and fit. If Luca, if LeBron and Austin become good catch and shoot players, I literally think they could be the top like a top three offense in the NBA. Like that is a real achievable outcome for them. And so with that being the case, if they do that and they bring in some sort of defensive piece, I do think there's a small little sliver of a window that they could slide through. But they're just clearly in that second tier and that's what just kind of keeps, keeps me from being too optimistic about them. Last question for you. Do you think the Lakers would consider making a more aggressive deal like Dalton and the first round pick, like including maybe a swap if they kicked ass to start the season and they looked like a legitimate threat?
- [36:16]
Yovon Buha
I think so. I also think the thing we have to keep in mind with all talk about their transactions or what they want to do is like what does Luca want? Right. And so I think an interesting part of the story that dropped today from ESPN was like just talking to him about the future and what type of players does he want and selling them on their plan and being honest about like the limited resources and assets that they currently have. And if we give up a first round pick, if a Giannis becomes available on the market, if a joke it becomes available on the market, we're going to need multiple first round picks, we're going to need multiple pick swaps, we're potentially going to need an attractive young player in adult and connect and you know, we're going to need all these assets to go for that type of guy. So if we spend that on an Andrew Wiggins, if we spend that on a Herb Jones or whoever, we don't have that option now. So I obviously that like we've heard the pie in the sky and they had their guys that they wanted in previous off seasons that they didn't get. So like it doesn't mean it's going to happen. But you already have that guy in Luca who people are going to want to play with. He's a, like I'd want to play with Luca. I was another superstar, right? The way he's going to set you up, especially like just think about a Luca Giannis pick and roll. It's just, it's like mind blowing, like just the, the potential there. But so I, I think like Luca's urgency is the thing to me that, that is the most interesting of. Because I, I don't see Luca just being like, I just got to the finals 14 months ago, and I'm cool with chilling, like us just being like a five or six seed. Right. So if they get out to that hot start, does he put a little bit more pressure on the front office to, hey, I signed the extension or maybe I haven't signed the extension and I'm considering signing, you know, you know, resigning next summer, but I want you guys to like, go for it. So that's kind of a variable that I think we'll see what type of urgency and pressure he puts on them. But I think so. I mean, I think it goes back kind of to the DFS trade and like the, you know, around that time of, they started to play a little bit better and it was like you saw the kernels of something and they were like, here's this opportunistic situation where we can flip Delo plus some seconds for dfs. So I think if they get out to like a 10 and three start and their top three team in the west, that probably puts some more urgency on them. But, you know, again with the Lakers in trades, I feel like that they sometimes are chasing the perfect trade at the expense of a good or great trade, and that is sometimes leads to inactivity. And as we've seen with the off season or going until the trade deadline like that, I feel like sometimes they overthink these situations.
- [38:47]
AT&T Advertiser
Yeah, you know, it feels like they're always looking for an excuse not to do something. For a while it was like, the Runway is too short, so it's not worth it. Now it's like the Runway's too long, so it's not worth it. And I'm, I would imagine that is part of the frustration for LeBron as well. But yeah, I think, like, I think if they got off to a great start and a lot of specific things kind of panned out in, in a certain way. Like for instance, like LeBron playing at an all NBA level. Luca an MVP level. Deandre Ayton playing like he's in a contract year and everything looking like it's smooth and that they're one piece away, there's never a guarantee. And the entire purpose of this is to win a championship. And if you feel like you're on the doorstep and you make an aggressive move, especially for a player that is in their mid-20s and that has some.
- [39:28]
Yovon Buha
Long term liability, that's the key thing. I, I don't think they make an aggressive Move for a short sighted. Like when I think like, and that's something again, I did a mailbag today where I got asked like about the 2027 plans and like my understanding is they're not just sitting out the next couple of years, it's more so they're prioritizing short term deals and that flexibility to have the optionality of in 2026 or in 2027 if there's a star that wants to come in for agency or there's a trade that they have that, you know, nimbleness with their cap sheet to be able to navigate that. Now if there is like I think a Herb Jones is an interesting one where he's someone who's now locked up with an extension making 20 plus million dollars and like he does fit the Luca Austin timeline would complement those guys really well and I think would be worth the potential first round pick. Dalton, maybe like a swap or something like that I think is a, you know, something that would kind of fit that timeline. So I think for them it's more about finding that player that's going to fit with the next iteration rather than being like, well let's just find a player for this year. That, and that's where Wiggins is, you know, depending on how you view him, is kind of like in that middle zone where you could see it but like he's probably more of a win now, like short term player.
- [40:43]
AT&T Advertiser
Yeah, I view him the same way, especially with some of his, like just talk to any warriors fan about Andrew Wiggins and they'll be like 2022 was like this flash in a pan, you know. But yeah, I, I, I mean if I'm Milwaukee and I'm trading Giannis, I look at Herb Jones coming back and that deal is a legitimate asset. And that, that's kind of my point that I'm trying to make is like I'm, I'm trying to say that even a draft pick in theory is not valuable to the Lakers in anything other than a star trade or a trade because as we've seen with Dalton and with so many of these other guys, players don't come into the NBA at 22, 23 and are ready to compete in a serious, serious context. But if you can flip them into a young player that helps you in the short term, but that can also be a vehicle with which to achieve a star in the future. That's a pathway that makes sense to me. But Yovon, I really appreciate you making the trip over here today.
- [41:36]
Yovon Buha
Appreciate you.
- [41:36]
AT&T Advertiser
It's been awesome. Meeting you in person. We're having dinner tonight.
- [41:39]
Yovon Buha
Looking forward to that.
- [41:40]
AT&T Advertiser
It's going to be fun. As always, we appreciate you guys for supporting us and supporting the show. Before we get out here, shout out your work because everyone knows where to find your stuff.
- [41:46]
Yovon Buha
Yeah, check out Booha's block on YouTube and Apple Podcasts. Spotify podcast platform of choice. Been living the independent life for the past month or so. It's been fun.
- [41:58]
AT&T Advertiser
All right, guys, we will see you later tonight. What's up guys? As always, I appreciate you for listening to and supporting Hoops tonight. It would actually be really helpful for us if you guys would take a second and leave a rating and a review. As always, I appreciate you guys supporting us, but if you could take a minute to do that, I'd really appreciate it.
- [42:16]
Podcast Host
The Volume.
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AT&T Advertiser
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Colin Cowherd
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- [44:39]
Podcast Host
This is an I Heart podcast.