Hoops Tonight - Reaction to Kawhi Leonard, Steve Ballmer & Clippers scandal reported by 'Pablo Torre Finds Out'

Summary

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Podcast Summary

The Herd with Colin Cowherd

Hoops Tonight: Reaction to Kawhi Leonard, Steve Ballmer & Clippers Scandal Reported by 'Pablo Torre Finds Out' (Aired: September 7, 2025)

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Episode Overview

This episode of Hoops Tonight (hosted by Jason for The Volume and iHeartPodcasts) dives into the explosive investigation by Pablo Torre into an alleged salary cap circumvention scheme orchestrated by LA Clippers owner Steve Ballmer and star player Kawhi Leonard. According to Torre's reporting, Ballmer funneled money to Kawhi via a $28M sham endorsement deal with a fraudulent tree-planting company called Aspiration, purportedly to get around the NBA's salary cap rules. Jason breaks down the essentials of the report and provides his perspective on its significance for the league, team ethics, and competitive fairness.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Bombshell Report: What Happened?

[02:28–06:45]

• The episode is a special reaction to a Pablo Torre Finds Out exposé, not part of the usual player rankings series.
• Jason summarizes the essence of the allegations:

  “Kawhi Leonard signed a $28 million endorsement deal for a no-show job with a fraudulent tree planting company funded by $50 million from Clippers owner Steve Ballmer, according to documents obtained by Pablo Torre. It was to circumvent the salary cap, an inside source says.” — Jason quoting Pablo Torre’s summary [03:05]

• Key facts:
  • Over four years, during Kawhi's second contract with the Clippers, Leonard received $7M/year from Aspiration for little to no actual work.
  • Minimal evidence of endorsement activity: “There were some Twitter posts from the Clippers official feed that had Kawhi's image or likeness on it with reference to Aspiration, but that was it. There was no direct mention from Kawhi, no endorsement, no, like, no retweet, no anything of the sort. And yet he was paid $7 million per year…” [04:09]
  • The Aspiration contract included two key suspicious clauses:
    1. Kawhi could refuse to do anything that did not “align with his values”—a loophole for doing nothing while still being paid.
    2. The contract was voided if Kawhi left the Clippers, indicating a direct link between Aspiration’s payment and Kawhi’s tenure with the team.

2. Connecting the Dots: Steve Ballmer’s Direct Role

[05:30–06:45]

• Pablo Torre reportedly established a clear financial link from Ballmer to Aspiration, with timing that closely aligned with the execution of Kawhi's Aspiration contract.

  “Pablo meticulously laid out in his episode showing documents that essentially proved that Steve Ballmer gave $50 million of his own money directly to Aspiration. And the timing of it, conspicuously, was almost immediately before Kawhi signed his own deal with Aspiration.” [05:55]

• Aspiration is under federal investigation for fraud, with one co-founder arrested.

3. Why This Matters: Competitive Fairness & Precedent

[13:43–16:50]

• Jason clarifies that the reported scheme was associated with Kawhi’s second (not first) Clippers contract, countering rumors that it lured him from the Lakers.

  “…this whole situation seems to be centered around Kawhi's second contract with the Clippers, not the first. I saw a lot of people on Twitter this morning saying like, oh, this is how they got him over the Lakers. As far as I can tell, there's no evidence that directly ties those two things together.” [13:43]

• The report may suggest clear salary cap circumvention.
• Jason argues for strict punishment if the allegations are proven:

  “I am completely okay with the NBA and Adam Silver taking any action necessary, based on the proof, to punish the associated parties appropriately.” [14:54]

  • He notes the NBA has reopened its investigation (citing Adam Silver’s previous comments and the league’s seriousness about such violations).

4. The Broader Context: Cheating and Loopholes in Sports

[16:51–20:00]

• Considers the pervasiveness of bending or breaking rules in pro sports (Astros, Patriots, Michigan Wolverines, etc.).
• Emphasizes that ultra-competitive personalities and organizations always look for ways to get an edge—sometimes by exploiting gray areas or loopholes.

  "Supreme competitors are always looking for an advantage. If you're Steve Ballmer and you're looking at the playing field and you're like, ... I'm one of the richest mfers in the world, and I can use that to help me win basketball games. It's not really hard for me to see how that ended up taking place." [19:18]

• Jason makes clear: understanding motivations does not excuse rule-breaking—if you get caught, consequences should follow.

5. League Culture, Player Incentives, and Future Fallout

[20:48–22:45]

• Notes that similar advantages—if less egregious—occur league-wide in the form of nepotism and soft favoritism (example: family members placed on team rosters).
• Predicts that, while the Clippers have become the butt of jokes (e.g., about Kawhi being a no-show both on court & for Aspiration), these scandals will keep surfacing as long as high stakes and creative executives exist.

  “There are clearly some…I guarantee you there are people in the league right now that are just doing a better job of it. ...in this business, people are looking for loopholes. They're looking for gray areas...This is just the latest guy to get caught. And it'll happen again…” [20:50–21:20]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the “smoking gun” in the contract:

  “The second part of the smoking gun was a clause in there that specifically nullified the contract if Kawhi ever left the Clippers ... So that's the real smoking gun in all of this…” — Jason [04:48]

• On competitive ethics and consequences:

  “If you get caught, you have to be prepared to face the consequences. And I 100% support those consequences because I believe in the sanctity of fairness. I just think this is the latest example in a long line of something we've seen all over the place.” — Jason [20:45]

• On Ballmer’s motivation and the culture of loophole-hunting:

  “They're like, we're smarter. We're going to find a way to win even more by circumventing this rule or that rule. … I understand how it takes place within the minds of these apex competitors. They just want to win at all costs.” — Jason [19:40]

• On future of such scandals:

  “This is just the latest guy to get caught. And it'll happen again. It'll just be someone else in a different way.” — Jason [21:18]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:28] - Episode starts, Jason introduces the Pablo Torre report and key allegations
• [04:09] - Breaks down Kawhi’s “no-show” endorsement details
• [05:30] - The two “smoking gun” contract clauses explained
• [05:55] - Ballmer’s direct funding of Aspiration discussed
• [06:45] - Aspiration’s federal investigation and shady business model
• [13:43] - Clarity on which contract is implicated and context on previous team negotiations
• [14:54] - Fairness, competitive balance, and call for potential NBA sanctions
• [16:51] - Comparisons to other cheating scandals and motivations
• [19:18–21:30] - Philosophy on competitive advantage and inevitability of future scandals
• [21:40] - Praises Pablo Torre’s investigative work and recommends watching full exposé

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Final Thoughts & Recommendations

Jason concludes by highlighting the significance of the report for understanding financial maneuvers behind the NBA’s closed doors. He praises Pablo Torre’s “unbelievable piece” for exposing complex financial relationships and the league’s ethical landscape. Jason recommends all listeners watch the full Pablo Torre Finds Out episode for comprehensive details and context, emphasizing that this issue is far from the last of its kind in professional sports.

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Transcript

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The Volume. All right. Welcome to Hoops Tonight here at the Volume. Happy Thursday everybody. Hope all of you guys are having a great week. We finally got a bit of NBA news today for the first time in what feels like an age. So we're taking a break from our player rankings for a bonus episode. I'm just going to give you guys my very quick thoughts on the Bombshell report dropped by Pablo Torre on his show. Pablo Torre finds out this morning. I'm just going to frame it by reading the tweet that came from the Pablo Torre Finds Out Twitter feed you can find at Pablo Tor or excuse me, Pablo finds Out exclusive. Kawhi Leonard signed a $28 million endorsement deal for a no show job with a fraudulent tree planting company funded by $50 million from Clippers owner Steve Ballmer, according to documents obtained by Pablo Torre. It was to circumvent the salary cap, an inside source says. So we're just going to very briefly kind of go over the nuts and bolts of the report. I'll give you guys my take on it and then we'll get out of here today. You guys know the drill. Get started. Subscribe to the Hoops Tonight YouTube channel so you don't miss any more of our videos. Follow me on Twitter at_jason lt so you guys don't miss show announcements. Don't forget about our podcast feed wherever you get your podcast under Hoops Tonight. It's also super helpful if you leave a rating and a review on that front. Jackson's doing great work on our social media feeds on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook and Tik Tok. Make sure you guys follow us there. And the last but not least, keep dropping mailbag questions in our YouTube comments. You get to get into our Friday mailbags throughout the remainder of the the season. All right, let's dig into this. So first and foremost, I highly recommend that you guys go to the Pablo Tori finds out YouTube page and watch the full episode. It's about 80 minutes long, but it meticulously lays out all of the moving parts at play in this scandal. And I'm not going to get into all of the details because one, it would spoil the episode. I highly recommend you guys check it out and it's just better to actually see everything laid out. You can actually see the documents he highlights, the relevant material. You'll learn a lot about this process by watching the video. But the short and sweet version is that over the course of Kawhi's second contract. Important detail there, which we'll get to in a minute. Over the course of Kawhi's second contract with the Clippers, he collected about $7 million per year for four years to essentially do absolutely nothing. Four for a company called Aspiration. There was some digging that was done online today by some some random people on Twitter who found there were some Twitter posts from the Clippers official feed that had Kawhi's image or likeness on it with reference to Aspiration, but that was it. There was no direct mention from Kawhi, no endorsement, no, like, no retweet, no anything of the sort of. And yet he was paid $7 million per year as part of a $28 million contract by these aspiration folks. Now, the smoking gun came down to two very specific clauses in the contract. One that stated that he basically could refuse to do anything he didn't want to do if they didn't align with his values. So it was essentially a contractual protection that allowed him to collect his $28 million without ever actually doing anything. And the second part of the smoking gun was a clause in there that specifically nullified the contract if Kawhi ever left the Clippers, even for bizarre situations like a buyout or retirement. So the interesting kind of difference there being like, oh, if you don't do anything, you're good, but if you leave the Clippers, we're done paying you. And so that's the real smoking gun in all of this, as you guys know. Why would they care? NBA stars are entity separate from anything having to do with the franchise. I mean, hell, they appear in commercials all the time wearing blank jerseys, right? So, like, why would they care if Kawhi was actually employed by the Clippers as part of this endorsement deal? So from there, the only remaining connection that Pablo needed to establish was the connection between Steve Ballmer himself and this company, Aspiration. If you're trying to say that Steve Ballmer paid Kawhi, but all we see is Aspiration paid Kawhi. You just need to connect Steve to Aspiration, and you have yourself that the. In the pod, they called it the transitive property in finances. So Pablo meticulously laid out in his episode showing documents that essentially proved that Steve Ballmer gave $50 million of his own money directly to Aspiration. And the timing of it, conspicuously, was almost immediately before Kawhi signed his own deal with Aspiration. Now the full story again gets way more complicated. Aspiration is currently under federal investigation for fraud. One of their two founding members was arrested as part of that investigation. The other guy's attempting a journey into the world of politics with the Democratic Party. Aspiration's whole business model was planting trees for carbon neutrality, but they weren't even verifying regularly if the trees were plante. They were. There were allegedly a bunch of fraudulent letters of intent. It's a whole mess of fascinating stuff. So, again, I highly recommend you guys go and check out the full episode, but there are two elements here that I want to get into. 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Listen to the psychology podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The first is the timing, and this is something that needs to be emphasized up front. This whole situation seems to be centered around Kawhi's second contract with the Clippers, not the first. I saw a lot of people on Twitter this morning saying like, oh, this is how they got him over the Lakers. As far as I can tell, there's no evidence that directly ties those two things together. I we all saw the reports surrounding that time. Uncle Dennis requesting a private jet and requesting guaranteed off court money. A bunch of these, like ridiculous requests, right, that were directed towards the Raptors and the Lakers and the Clippers. I even vaguely remember reading a report about like a house that may or may not have allegedly been purchased for him. But the true story there is that the NBA did conduct an investigation surrounding that particular signing and didn't find anything. So this particular string of evidence is more directly associated with this second contract. The reason why I think that's worth mentioning is for all of the reasons why Kawhi chose the Clippers over the Lakers. We still don't have anything that's concrete that the Clippers did for Kawhi that poached him away from the Clippers. And I just think that's worth mentioning because I think that those are two separate issues. Right? But the second issue remains, regardless, this is a compelling set of evidence that leads us to believe that Steve Ballmer and the Clippers circumvented the salary cap to give Kawhi Leonard more than the collective bargaining agreement would typically allow a team to pay somebody of Kawhi's ability. Now, even within this second issue, I think there are two different ways to look at this. The first is the obvious one. Fairness. You obviously, in competitive sports want a level playing field. You don't want teams breaking the rules to accumulate more talent than they normally would to give them an unfair advantage. I see that point of view. We all as competitors should believe in that sanctity of fairness. And I am completely okay with the NBA and Adam Silver taking any action necessary, based on the proof, to punish the associated Property parties appropriately right now, again, like, you know how it gets with these, these legal avenues. It could very well be that they get in there and they're like, well, what about this name, image and likeness? Post post from the the Clippers account feed. This counts as a, a service directly provided by Kawhi. They may find a loophole to escape this, and this may very well end up not ending in any sort of legitimate punishment. But anybody who's done any research or been paying any attention to Pablo's recent escapades, the NFL is still reeling from his investigation into the guaranteed contracts that were being avoided by many of these teams. And obviously we've all, we all remember the Bill Belichick saga that kind of broke. Pablo Torrey finds out that show onto the, to the national stage. You would be foolish to think that this is just going to go under the rug. So I would imagine that there will be some kind of fallout of some sort. Pablo, even in his, in his full episode when went about bringing up the quote from Adam Silver after the first investigation where he basically said, we take this very seriously. He was, Adam Silver specifically referred to it as the cardinal sin in the NBA. And he said that if they discovered any additional evidence, they would reopen the investigation. And the NBA spokesperson came out today and said that they were going to restart that investigation. So my guess is that we will see something come of this. And as I said, I believe in the sanctity of fairness and competition and I believe that the associated parties should be punished. But life is full of gray areas. And the second way of looking this, looking at this, is very much one of those gray areas. Do I think the Clippers are the first team in the NBA to inappropriately pay a player underneath the table? No, I do not. We see so many examples throughout the world of sports of well known entity entities in those leagues cheating. Whether it be the Houston Astros, whether it be the New England Patriots multiple times with the Spygate saga and the Deflategate saga, whether it be the Michigan Wolverines and sign stealing, whatever it is, illegal videotaping, sign stealing, the illegal signal sending to batters in Major League Baseball. We've seen this a ton. And by the way, I'm not excusing cheating by any stretch of the imagination. I think it's super lame and I am 100% on board with the leagues punishing the hell out of these people when they do it. But the reality is super competitive people are always looking for an edge, even in gray areas that aren't necessarily cheating. Like foul grifting like we talk about. Do I think Jalen Brunson and Jake Elders Alexander and Luka Doncic and Austin Reeves foul grift because they don't believe in the sanctity of basketball? No, I think they do it because they want free throws. And free throws are worth points. And points help you win basketball games. And getting to the foul line allows your team to rest and get their defense set. Getting to the foul line is a huge asset. We covered that in detail with Jimmy Butler and the warriors this year. So, like, it's just competitive nature manifesting in them looking for an edge. But if you get caught, you have to be prepared to face the consequences. I just think it's funny because when you look at it, I don't think it's a coincidence that the Houston Astros went on to win a World Series anyway after the cheating scandal, or the fact that the New England Patriots won multiple Super Bowls after Spygate, or that Tom Brady won multiple Super Bowls after deflategate. Manifesting that original idea that I just brought up, which is that supreme competitors are always looking for an advantage. If you're Steve Ballmer and you're looking at the playing field and you're like, I'm. I have more money than Genie Buss. I have more money than all these guys. I'm one of the richest mfers in the world, and I can use that to help me win basketball games. It's not really hard for me to see how that ended up taking place. It's no different than, you know, with the Astros or the Patriots. They just think they're smarter. They're like, we're smarter. We're going to find a way to find a way to win even more by circumventing this rule or that rule. And again, I'm not defending it. I'm just saying I understand it. I understand how it takes place within the minds of these apex competitors. They're just, they. They want to win at all costs. Steve Ballmer did a lot of winning in life before he started winning with the Clippers. Now the joke will be, and it's apt. There's all sorts of hilarious jokes that were going around, whether it's Kawhi doing no show work with the Clippers as a basketball player, let alone for aspiration, or the jokes about the Clippers in general having never won. Shit. And you know, that's the other part of this is you get made fun of. But I just. It's always just been a part of the world of sports. It's just if you get caught, you have to be prepared to face the consequences. And I 100% support those consequences because I believe in the sanctity of fairness. I just think this is the latest example in a long line of something we've seen all over the place. There are clearly some. I guarantee you there are people in the league right now that are just doing a better job of it. How is it any different than LeBron getting his son to play for the Lakers or Giannis Antenna Kounmpo getting his brother to play for the Bucks? Again, like there is inevitably in this business, people are looking for loopholes. They're looking for gray areas. They're looking for ways to appease people, to build relationships, to stack talent, to stack advantages so that they can win more. And this is just the latest guy to get caught. And it'll happen again. It'll just be someone else in a different way. But I just want to shout out Pablo Torre. I thought that was an unbelievable piece. I really enjoyed listening to it. This afternoon you'll learn a lot about some of the back end stuff involving like team sponsorships and the way these investor groups work. And like he drew some interesting lines between Steve Ballmer as an incredibly savvy investor, but ignoring some obvious red flags within aspiration that nobody of his ilk would have missed under normal circumstances. It's just awesome. I highly recommend you guys check it out. It's all we have for today. We'll be back tomorrow with our player rankings mailbag and I will see you guys then.

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Hey, this is Matt Jones and I'm Drew Franklin and this is NFL Cover Zero. We're just here to try to give you an NFL perspective a little bit different.

[Jason]

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We think NFL coverage should be informative and entertaining. And twice a week that is exactly what you're gonna get. Listen NFL Cover Zero with Matt Jones and Drew Franklin on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.

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The Puzzler. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Dan. He's Ty. Hello. And we're the solid verbal college football podcast.

[Ty]

Tune in for previews, recaps, bits you won't hear anywhere else, and all the emotional support you need as a college football fan.

[Jason]

Join us all season long as we ride the roller coaster of this ridiculous sport.

[Ty]

Listen to the solid verbal college football podcasts on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jason]

We don't just love college football, Ty. We live it. This is an iHeart podcast.