← The Herd with Colin Cowherd
The Herd with Colin Cowherd
Hoops Tonight - Reaction to Lakers FIRING Buss brothers, LeBron & Luka impact + LaMelo Ball & Jonathan Kuminga sagas
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Sophie Cunningham
This is an I Heart Podcast. This is Sophie Cunningham from Show Me Something. Do you know the symptoms of moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea, or osa, in adults with obesity? They may be happening to you without you knowing. If anyone has ever said you snored loudly, or if you spend your days fighting off excessive tiredness, irritability and concentration issues, it may be due to osa. OSA is a serious condition where your airway partially or completely collapses during sleep, which may cause breathing interruptions and oxygen deprivation. Learn more at. Don't sleep on osa.com this information is provided by Lily, a medicine company.
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- [01:13]
Jason (Host of Hoops Tonight)
This podcast is sponsored by PayPal. All right, let's talk holiday shopping. From now through December 8th, you can get 20% cash back when you pay in four with PayPal. No fees, no interest. This limited time offer is perfect for the Black Friday and Cyber Monday deals you've been eyeing. Save the offer in the app right now. So whether it's a must have merch or for that signed jersey you've been eyeing, PayPal helps you make the most of your money. This holiday expires December 8th. See paypal.com promoter subject to approval.
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Jason (Host of Hoops Tonight)
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Jason (Host of Hoops Tonight)
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Today's episode is brought to you by a scent that's made a legendary comeback. Degree Original Cool Rush, the OG is back and better than ever. Cool Rush isn't just a scent, it's a movement. The kind of fragrance that millions of guys ask for by name. It's bold, fresh and delivers all day sweat protection with that cool, crisp vibe that made it a legend. Whether you're heading to the gym, the office, or just trying to stay fresh on a long day, Cool Rush has your back. So if you haven't tried it yet, head to your local Walmart and grab Degree Cool Rush, the fan favorite scent from the world's number one antiperspirant brand, the Volume. All right, welcome to Hoops Tonight here at the Volume. Happy Friday everybody. Hope all of you guys had an incredible week. Well, it is mailbag day, but we got a bunch of NBA news yesterday so going to be hitting on three stories at first. Then we're going to do a mini mailbag at the tail end of the show. The Lakers began the revamping of their front office yesterday with the firing of Joey and Jesse Bus. At first it looked like Mark Walter coming into clean house and now it's judging by an interview by Dan Wike of the Athletic with Jesse Bus seems like it might be a little bit more family drama. So I want to dig into that a little bit after that. Lamelo Ball Kelly Iko from Yahoo Sports who covers the NBA, he ended up reporting that Lamelo Ball is looking to potentially be traded away from Charlotte. We've in the his writing, he also said that the Hornets themselves have become somewhat disillusioned with Lamelo. So kind of want to dig into that concept a little bit and then I have three potential LaMelo trades just for fun to get us started today. There's a bunch of different options there, but I wanted to dig into three potential options after that. Anthony Slater from ESPN reported that Jonathan Kaminga feels like he's being scapegoated by the Warriors. And so it took all of about a month for us to end up back in the same boat that we were in over the summer. I want to talk about that briefly. And then again we have, you know, about a half dozen questions that we'll get through quickly at the tail end of the show. You guys know the joke before we get started. Subscribe to the Hoops Tonight YouTube channel so you don't miss any more of our videos. Follow me on twitter_jason lt so you guys don't miss show announcements. Don't forget about our podcast feed wherever you get your podcasts under. Oops under Hoops tonight. It's always super helpful if you leave a rating and a review on that front. Jackson's doing incredible work on our social media feeds on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook and TikTok. Make sure you guys follow us there for more content throughout the season. And then last but not least, keep dropping mailbag questions in the YouTube comments so we can get to them on our Fridays throughout the rest of the season. Couple extra announcements too. One of the things you guys could do that would be really helpful for us is if you guys could like this video. It'd be awesome if we could get as many likes as possible on this video. I'm going to be announcing that as we start each show. It's just something that helps us on the YouTube front. And then lastly, we have our next playback stream tonight. Tonight at 6:30pm Pacific Time, the Denver Nuggets versus the Houston Rockets. A matchup of two teams that I have in my top tier contenders. We talked a little bit about this yesterday. We're going to do contender rankings next week, but Houston will be joining that tier. So a fun showdown between Denver and Houston tonight. All right, let's talk some basketball. So the Lakers Fire Joey and Jesse Buss this news broke yesterday while we were on the Lakers collective podcast and while me and Trevor and Yovon were breaking it down. We initially were covering it more or less as like kind of Mark Walters cleaning house kind of thing. This is the beginning of the new era. Like both Bus brothers were fired and most of the scouting staff. So it seemed like, okay, they're just going to kind of revamp things. But then last night Dan Woicke of the Athletic published an interview with Jesse Buss that painted a very different picture. Something more along the lines of a multi year rift building between the Buss brothers and their sister as well as the rest of the front office, which effectively ended in them being pushed out. Jesse essentially said that they had been far less involved with personnel decisions over the last few years. He specifically cited the 2023 draft as the beginning of the era where they were not involved, but rather at that point they just started being informed of what the team was doing. That's obviously hilarious and it's very pointed and specific because in 2023 that was when Jalen Hood Schifino was drafted. So it was basically his way of saying like, yeah, we had nothing to do with any of that shit. After the Jaleno draft, he also went on to say that he felt like him and Joey had become viewed as enemies within the organization. He said that he hadn't spoken to Jeannie Buss or Rob Pelinka in five months. So instead of looking like Mark Walter was cleaning house, it's looking more like a family civil war. And then there was this bar that Jesse dropped at the tail end of the interview. And I hope that going forward that Mark can kind of bring a lot of what he brought to the Dodgers. Because I think if the vision more or less is the same from what I've seen over the last 10 years, then it necessarily isn't always going to lead to the success that Lakers fans have become accustomed to when my dad ran the operations and owned the team. Basically a very passive aggressive way of saying, y' all better hope Mark comes in and runs things again soon because if it stays with Jeannie, you guys are going to underachieve. A very, very, very pointed comments there from Jesse Buss. Now, I think there are two ways to look at this situation. There's the oh my God, Genie Bus is a shit show way of looking at it, which we'll get into. And then there's the this will all be fine because Mark Walter is going to clean this up. And I think both of those perspectives are valuable to look at. I ultimately think the Lakers front office will be in much better shape five years from now. Joey and Jesse were a rare bright spot in that front office. They had an extensive track record of finding high level NBA talent, especially at the tail end of the draft. They brought in Alex Caruso, they brought in Austin Reeves, they brought in Kyle Kuzma, they brought in Max Christie. Many of the young player hits that have come through LA in the last decade. According to the interview, Jesse takes some credit for the idea of the Rui Hachimura trade. He kind of positioned it in a way that like the team came to him and basically asked for his opinion on that deal and he essentially co signed it. But beyond those successes, there aren't many successes to be found in that Laker front office, aside from the star acquisitions which appear to have much more to do with factors that are outside of the Lakers control. Like LeBron picked the Lakers because they were the Lakers clutch, strong armed ad to the Lakers because they were the lakers and because LeBron was there and Nico Harrison gift wrapped Luca to the Lakers in what was the most stunning trade in the history of sports. Now I want to be clear and fair here. It hasn't been all bad. I thought Rob Pelinka did a nice job pivoting off of the Kawhi saga to build a championship roster around the eventual champion 2020 Los Angeles Lakers. I thought he did some nice work this last summer finding discounted depth in guys like Marcus Smart, DeAndre Aton and Jake Laravia. But even in that discussion there's some context. Like you probably don't get Ayton if you don't have Luca in the belief that he gives Ayton that he can help rehab his trade value or not his value, but his eventual free agent value. Right? You probably don't get Jake Laravia without the connections you have to Austin Reeves and his agent. Right? And in general, over the course of the Rob Pelinka era, there's been a complete lack of basketball identity in that front office. There isn't a clear basketball philosophy that shapes their decision making. There isn't a type of player that they clearly like and consistently target the way that you see with teams like Golden State and Oklahoma City and Miami or, or Indiana. There hasn't been any sort of consistency and approach from off season to off season. They seem to go in a different direction every year. And as you go upwards in the organization, it gets even more sloppy. All I've heard is that the Lakers have multiple hands trying to fly the plane, so to speak, many competing ideas, not much in the way of alignment throughout the upper management. You have Kurt Rambis trying to shoehorn himself into coaches meetings or in some cases even trying to force his way onto coaching stabs like it's just been a mess. But overall I'm optimistic and this is where I want to kind of bring it back to a positive perspective. Even with the loss of the bro of the Buss brothers, which again, they were a rare bright spot, I think Mark Walter will be very competitive in this marketplace. I think he's going to throw a lot of cash around. I think he's going to bring in very competent professionals into those roles. I expect the Lakers to have a very good scouting department in the near future with excellent college scouting, with excellent overseas scouting, with excellent NBA scouting. And then I think the front office will eventually build out a basketball identity. A consistent approach from offseason off season. I think JJ Redick really helps with this. I think JJ will really help Rob come up with a consistent approach from off season to offseason in the types of players he wants in his system. And then I think slowly but surely over the course of the next half decade, that kind of small, parochial, family business like approach of the Lakers to basketball decisions will be replaced by dead serious and more professional approach to to decision making. In a more competitive NBA like you, you can't afford to be weak in those areas with how good the rest of the NBA is. And I think the the Lakers will eventually be more competitive behind the scenes. This will all eventually end with the Lakers being a dead serious basketball organization with a financial and leadership backing that actually meets the level of the Lakers brand itself, which again remains the biggest basketball brand in the world. So in other words, it's kind of a sad day because Jesse and Joey don't deserve what happened to them both over the last few years and what happened yesterday. But ultimately I do think the Lakers will be better off in the long run as Mark Walter just continues to assert himself and to take more and more control of the team all right, let's get into this Lamelo saga. So lamelo Ball has grown increasingly frustrated with the organization and is open to a trade away from the franchise, multiple league sources told Yahoo. Sports. That's from Kelly Aiko, who's a national NBA writer for Yahoo. Sports. Now the numbers have been tricky. With Lamelo to start the year, he's got hurt again to start the year, he hasn't been good since he came back. He's just 5 for 24 from 3 over the last 8 games. Got benched at the tail end of regulation in the last one. He's down to just a bit over 27 minutes per game over the last three games, but the team has been flatly better when he's on the floor. Even just in that three game span where the Hornets went 0 3, they won LaMelo's minutes by 12. They have a plus 7 net rating, meaning they're outscoring opponents by 7 points per 100 possessions. When LaMelo Ball's on the floor, they have a 124 offensive rating. According to Cleaning the Glass. When LaMelo Ball's on the floor, they're bad on defense, but the offense is so good that they've been winning of those minutes. And again, I think the bad defense goes far beyond just Lamelo and his kind of inconsistent effort and focus on that end. The offense absolutely craters when he's off the floor. They go from a 124 offensive rating to a 109 offensive rating. In other words, from transcendently great to what would be the bottom of the league. And the defense gets worse too because again, those two ends of the floor are connected. When you're constantly missing shots and turning the basketball over, it puts your Defense in a comprom position. Now, I will freely admit I'm personally not the biggest Lamelo ball fan in the world, but I do think he's an undeniable offensive talent. He's kind of the definition of a modern offensive engine. A guard that can push pace consistently. That generates tons of advantages basically by just running action and relentlessly making the reads. The reads that set your teammates up with closeouts and four on threes. Any sort of advantage that a. A basketball player can capitalize on at a much higher rate than he would if he doesn't have an advantage. That's what causes the offensive rating numbers you see to be so much better when he's on the floor versus off now. He's a flawed young player. His shot selection on the ball can be downright silly sometimes. I think that prevents him from being as efficient as he's capable of being. His defensive effort is inconsistent. Not super uncommon for a young guard. I think he can make some plays there. He's got good size and length and he's fast and when he like he can make plays when he's engaged on that end. But there's not much in the way of possession to possession discipline and he needs to get his body right if he wants to stay on the floor. Now let's zoom in on Charlotte real quick. They were getting a lot of hype from NBA hipsters coming into the season and for good reasons. Like Con Knell's a really good player. I like Con Knippel and he's hooping his ass off right now, by the way. In his last nine games, 22 points, seven rebounds and four assists per game on basically 50, 40, 90, 49% from the field, 39% from three and 93% from the line. I like Scion James, I like Brandon Miller. But I was personally very low on the Hornets coming into the season and I thought they'd be back at the bottom of the league because they're pretty much devoid of two way talent relative to the rest of the league and because Lamelo just hasn't shown an ability to stay on the floor. So I do think that if you took Lamelo and took him out of what is essentially not a good roster and put him onto a situation with more talent, I do think he could be a ceiling raiser. Now before we get into some of these trades, for me personally, if I was running an NBA team, I would not trade for Lamello. The upside is tantalizing. But he's been around for a while now. This is his sixth NBA season. He's played more than 51 games in a season, just once. And while the offensive upside is still as tantalizing as ever, he's shown basically no progress towards becoming that more refined version of himself. Like he's never really made an attempt to trim the fat in his shot selection. He's never become a more diligent possession to possession defender. And we're not seeing like progress in those directions. It's not like, oh, he's way ahead of where he was back in 2023. That shows that he's progressing towards becoming this all NBA level type of dude. Like we've seen that with other guys like Tyrese Halliburton, very similar type of like kind of offensive engine guard, albeit less of a scorer. With Tyrese Halliburton, we've seen in the last few years him become a little better each season at competing in the defense, competing in the scheme, throwing hard hedges and recovering with his hands up and sprinting back out to the shooter, slipping out of the screen. Like we've seen progress there that we haven't really seen with Lamelo. So I personally don't think he's worth the risk if I was running an NBA team. But ultimately LaMelo Ball will end up being traded again. Kelly, in his report also said that the Hornets themselves are disillusioned with Lamelo. So if the Hornets don't want him and he doesn't want the Hornets, he's going to be somewhere else soon enough. So just for fun, and again, there's a lot of different options. You can go a lot of different directions. You can go here. But I came up with just three fun LaMelo Ball trades just to kind of brainstorm this initial phase. And if I have others, I'll. I'll pitch them when we get further down the line. But first one here, LaMelo Ball to the Mavs for Anthony Davis. This one was floating around yesterday a little bit and it's interesting to me. So the rough structure of this deal would be something like Anthony Davis and d' Angelo Russell are one of the other small contracts for the Mavs. I know Mavs fans are already being driven crazy by DLO because he's just been in such a massive role as the injuries have piled up, but it'd be Anthony Davis and Dlo or one of the other smaller contracts for LaMelo Ball and Colin Sexton. I don't think there would need to be any draft compensation on either side of this deal. Like Anthony Davis is just a much better basketball player than Lamelo. And that would counter any of the additional value you'd get from Lamelo's youth. And yeah, Anthony Davis has had, had, has had health issues, but nothing close to what Lamelo has had in this situation. The Hornets would get this incredible center to essentially be a bridge between this era and the future. Gives you an opportunity to see if guys like Musa Diabate or Ryan Kalkbrenner could become that foundational center for them. But in the short term, you give Con Cannipple and Brandon Miller a chance to compete with like a legit foundational center in the long term. And then one of the other things too is like Anthony Davis will eventually, over the next few seasons have a stretch where he stays healthy for like 30 games or so. And when that happens, he's gonna look awesome. Cause that's how Anthony Davis career has been. As long as he's healthy and on the floor consistently, he eventually gets in shape and builds rhythm. And when that happens, the Hornets would essentially have an opportunity at that point to trade a rehabbed version of Anthony Davis's value. They could flip him at that point in the future, should they so choose. And then on the Mavs front you get two things. You get a potential young star to pair with Cooper Flag who would fit really well with him. I think it more appropriately slots Cooper in an off ball role, playing with an advantage channeling his efforts on defense. I think, I think they complement each other really well. And then you also add a secondary ball handler and Colin Sexton for a team that is still even with Lamelo, really short on ball handling. And you get kind of excited when you look at a lineup that has like Lamelo ball, Max Christie, Cooper Flag, P.J. washington and Derek Lively, like it's pretty damn exciting, right? And those are all guys like Max Chrissy can knock down A3 and drive a closeout. Cooper Flag, as we've talked about, is one of the best read makers out of a young prospect that I've ever seen. PJ Washington, when we watched him alongside Luka Doncic when he was getting spoon fed advantages, is a really high level weak side score. And Derek Lively is that screen and roll threat that's also such a great defensive anchor on the other end of the floor. You also have four really good defensive players there next to Lamelo. I really like that deal for Dallas and I think you could talk yourself into it if you're Charlotte is getting out of the Lamelo business. Getting a guy that kind of makes you a more serious basketball team in the short term. And if you look at both of those guys as guys with flawed trade value, right? Anthony Davis, older, had some injury issues. Lamelo, you know, somewhat of a kind of like a mercurial type of player who also has injury issues. They both kind of have low value right now. But if you get Anthony Davis and your rehab is value, you could potentially trade him for more down the line. Next Lamella Ball trade. The warriors make up for the James Wiseman mistake. This one would be a little bit more complicated to pull off. Like the foundation of the trade would essentially be Lamello Ball for Jonathan Kaminga. But it would get tricky from there. The warriors would have to aggregate some salaries and they don't have a lot of salaries to aggregate because of their three massive contracts. So it'd probably be like Buddy Healed and Moses Moody added to the deal. And you hate to lose a guy like Moses Moody in a deal like that, but you'd basically have to if you wanted to get a guy like Lamelo. And the Hornets would have to clear some roster spots in order to make this all happen. But once again, similar to the Dallas trade, I don't think there'd have to be too much in the way of draft compensation going either way. Like if you're Charlotte Moody and Kaminga is a really nice return for Lamelo and essentially if you look at it from both perspectives, Charlotte would get a really nice power forward prospect to pair with Brandon Miller. I think they'd eventually get off of Miles Bridges in a separate deal. I think Kaminga just because of his first step quickness and he just has like a little bit more of that, I'll actually say he has considerably more like one on one potential in the big picture. I think he's a prospect that I like better than a guy like Miles Bridges and Moses Moody is like a awesome two way wing to help bolster them on both ends of the floor. Golden State would get a legitimate, legitimate secondary shot creator off of Steph. I think it'd be kind of clunky at first, but you know, you could argue the short term returns would not be very good. But at the very least they'd have a foundational piece to look at for the era after Steph, the guy you build the offense around when Steph retires. Now, once again, to be very clear, if I ran the Warriors, I would not do this deal. But I could totally see Joe Lacob stepping in and making something like this happen just with some of the control that he has on the team. The last trade that I'll pitch to you guys today, the spurs partner Lamelo with Wemby. So this deal would essentially just be deer and fox for Lamello ball. It might involve a three team construct where deer and fox gets rerouted. That kind of just depends on what value Charlotte would see in deer and fox. Fox. Fox is only 27, so maybe Charlotte would give it a shot with him. But I could see him getting rerouted. But I like the idea in theory for San Antonio. They get a legit offensive engine to pair with Victor Wembanyama. They could get the deal done without having to give up any of the other young guards. You can keep a Dylan Harper and Steph Castle is essentially insurance. It kind of like solves your timeline issue in the sense that like I think Steph Castle and Dylan Harper are both guys that have potential to become all stars in this league, but it might be three, four years before they get to that level. And Victor Weyama is ready to be first team all NBA this season. He's ready to be competing for a championship this season. And so you have this like kind of upside in the sense that you get this big offensive engine type of weapon in Lamelo that can grease the wheels for you on offense. You can completely support him on the defensive end of the four. Because you have such big athletic guards and because you have Victor women Yamaha underneath the basket, you can with withstand Lamelo's injuries. Like you have strong infrastructure. Like that team just won a game without Wemby or Lamelo theory. You know, in this theoretical situation right now, I, I think they have that type of infrastructure to where they could withstand LaMelo playing 55, 65 games in a season. And again, the big thing there is he could be the guy that could finally be the type of player that sets Wemby up with easy opportunities. Something we've talked about forever. Getting Wimby more advantages from a really high level pick and roll ball handler. And there's potential there with the Aaron Fox to be clear. But Lamelo would certainly be better in that role. Now this is where it gets tricky because like I said in the other two deals, like I wouldn't do these deals. I mean Dallas, you could talk yourself into it because of Anthony Davis, but if I was Golden State or another one of these more serious teams, I would have to give up like a substantial asset wouldn't do it. Right. But you know, Anthony Davis is kind of a distressed asset in and of himself. And in the San Antonio situation, like if you keep all your draft compensation and you keep Dylan Harper and you keep Steph Castle. It's kind of relatively low risk, like if I was San Antonio. I think long and hard about that one. Today's show is brought to you by our new presenting sponsor, Hard Rock Bet. It's our favorite time of year between the NBA and college. There's basketball on every night, and every night is a shot to score a major bucket on Hard Rock Bet, your home for hoops action all season long. Sign up today and you could score 150 in bonus bets. Just place a $5 bet and if it hits, you get not only your winnings, but $150 in extra bonus bets. Want to see what everyone else is betting on tonight? Top picks or parlays across any sport? The Hard Rock Bet app literally shows you. It's another reason to download the app just for the info tap, Discover and you can see trending picks and parlays at any time. The Hard Rock Bet Sportsbook app is the only legal sportsbook for whenever you're in Florida, and it's also live in Arizona, Ohio, New Jersey, Indiana, Tennessee, Virginia, Illinois and Colorado. Coming soon to more states as well. Plus, Hard Rock Bet offers new promos every single day, so whenever you're listening, just open the app and check out what they've got. 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- [27:29]
Sophie Cunningham
This is Sophie Cunningham from Show Me Something. Do you know the symptoms of moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea, or OSA in adults with obesity? They may be happening to you without you knowing. If anyone has ever said you snored loudly, or if you spend your days fighting off excessive tiredness, irritability and concentration issues, it may be due to osa. OSA is a serious condition where your airway partially or completely collapses during sleep, which may cause breathing interruptions and oxygen deprivation. Learn more at. Don't sleep on osa.com this information is provided by Lilly, a medicine company.
- [28:08]
Jason (Host of Hoops Tonight)
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- [28:35]
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- [29:38]
Jason (Host of Hoops Tonight)
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Jason (Host of Hoops Tonight)
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Jason (Host of Hoops Tonight)
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By Liberty Mutual Insurance Company affiliates. Excludes Massachusetts. All right, before we get to our mailbag, Anthony Slater from ESPN reports that Jonathan Kaminga is feeling like the scapegoat again. He feels like the scapegoat again. One team source said Kaminga, team sources said had voiced occur a desire to be coached harder. There was even a meeting about it in the Sacramento Hotel prior to their ninth game of the season. And Kerr appeared to make it a point during the Kings game to call Kaminga over and get on him constructively several times. But 4 and 1 became 6 and 6. Kaminga's knees began bothering him. His defensive juice and burst to the rim lessened. He went 1 for 9 shooting at home against the Pacers, missing all five of his threes. Coaches dinged him for his perimeter shot selection as a reason for his minutes reduction to a season low 20. And for the warriors to reach their ceiling this season, there is an internal belief that that Jonathan Kaminga, even in a condensed role, must shake off some of his built up resentment and get back to the impact wing from the first couple of weeks. Even if the long term benefit for both sides is more about a bump in trade value than a partnership. Again, all that from Anthony Slater from espn. I said right after the Oklahoma City game when those comments were made that it felt like they were scapegoating Kaminga again. The Golden State stars themselves all came out like shit against the Thunder, got their butts kicked and then they went into the pressers and blamed the young guys. Now here's the truth. The warriors are 9 and 8 because of their schedule. That's it. After I'm recording this, I'm recording with Adam Mares from from dnvr. We're doing that all NBA show and one of the topics we're doing today is we're covering teams that are better than their record and teams that are worse than their record. And you know what team I picked for the team that's better than their record? The Golden State Warriors. They're nine and eight because they have a team built around four guys in their late 30s and they had 17 games in 28 days to start the season. So there's no reason to blame anyone. Steph has been bad in some games. We talked about the Oklahoma City game. Steph was bad in the Oklahoma City game. Steph was really bad in the Indiana Pacers game is big part of why they lost that game, the one on the road. Jimmy's been bad at points. Draymond's been bad at points, Jonathan Kaminga's been bad at points. So has Moses Moody and Brandon Pajemski. They've all been beaten into the ground by the schedule. And that's what makes this pump fake from Golden State so bizarre. Like early in the season when things are going good and Jonathan Kaminga's in the starting lineup, everyone's singing Jonathan Kaminga's praises. And for good reason. He's, he was playing well. And again, did he tail off as things got harder? Yeah, but so did everyone else. And this is where it comes back to the same damn thing we've been arguing about all damn summer in all the last year and a half or so. Is Jonathan Kaminga a great fit with the Golden State Warriors? Obviously not. Even with him playing better to start the season, the on off numbers continue to show that the team is better without him because he's not a great fit. But I don't think he's to blame for the nine and eight start. And again, the warriors had every opportunity to move on from the Kaminga era this summer. The only reason they didn't is because they didn't want to lose him as an asset for nothing. And because when they shopped him, they weren't happy with the return they were being offered in those sign in traits. So it's like this complete disillusionment, so to speak, surrounding his value. So they decided to bring him back and here we are. And when things are good, it's Kaminga's finally buying in. And when things are bad, it's the young guys aren't all pulling in the same direction as us. And again, like I know that both sides have blame in this, but one of the sides is a bunch of grown ass middle aged men who know better and the other side is a 23 year old talented basketball player who's been jerked around for four and a half years. So of course he's kicking and screaming a bit. I lack any form of sympathy for the warriors in this situation and I cannot wait for the saga to be over. All right, let's get into our mailbag. I'll get to a Warriors question first here. Since we're on the warriors, who between Trey Murphy or Herb Jones fits? The warriors fits. What the warriors need is it the third scoring option in Trey Murphy or the lockdown point of attack defender and Herb Jones that will elevate the warriors into contender status? So I've had this debate with warriors fans at various points over the last few months. I had it with with Tommy and Sam from the Light Years podcast, like about a month. Month or. And you know, they kind of both leaned more towards the Herb Jones type. Essentially they want a big athletic forward, essentially a. Like we talked about it in the context of like an Andrew Wiggins vs. Jordan Pool. Which version do the warriors need? Do the warriors need what Jordan pool was to the 2022 warriors or do they need what Andrew Wiggins was to the 2022 Warriors? Those are. That's kind of where the path bifurcates, so to speak. Right. And Trey is essentially that scoring forward type that would add offensive pop to the team. And Herb Jones is your stereotypical 3 and D kind of athlete. Right. So they kind of, in this mailbag question that you're pitching, they represent both ends of that discussion. For me. I maintain that. I think they need scoring. I think ultimately the biggest problem the warriors have is that when the young guys and everybody down the roster, whether it's Jimmy being able to score and carry bench units, or it's Draymond Green knocking down catch and shoot threes, or it's Moody and Pods going for 30 points on any given night rather than 15, I think it's the inconsistent offense off of Steph that continues to be a problem for this team. I always believe in their ability to scale up defensively when they need to. So for me, I would be targeting someone more along the lines of a Trey Murphy. That said, either player would help the team. Not going to sit here and pretend like Herb Jones wouldn't help the warriors, but to me you have a guy in Moses Moody who provides a rough approximation of that. No, he's not as good as her, but he provides a rough approximation of that. A guy who can guard the opposing team's best player. The guy who's better at it than Jonathan Kaminga because he's better and more disruptive with his hands. A guy that can bring some catch and shoot play attacking closeouts, even bring some movement shooting too. Although Herb Jones has built out some of his more refined offensive game as well. But to me, you already have a guy that kind of roughly approximates that. Trey Murphy represents something you don't have, like a legit heat check wing scorer. A guy that can come in and like, like consistently give you in that 20 to 25 points range. A guy that's not going to have as many nights where he just is a non factor on the offensive end of the floor. So for me, whether it's Trey Murphy or it's someone else, I lean towards the warriors need scoring pop. They need someone that can come in for a five minute stretch when Steph checks out of the game and legit like, like provide the offensive explosion to carry those units. That's the kind of guy that I would be targeting if I was the Warriors. Hey Jason, love the show. I had a simple idea of actually increasing the length of the season while keeping the same amount of games. Get rid of back to backs. Guarantee there's at least one day between games and two days between games for long flights. Also make the two playoff series best of five. But I doubt the league would do that otherwise. Like your idea. So here's the thing. I think the problem with lengthening the season is it's already so fucking long. Like I mean it's legitimately a nine month journey when you include some of the other details like summer league and free agency. Like it goes from the beginning of October all the way to the middle of July. Now if you zoom in on just the games we're going from, like guys are showing up for training camp in early October and they're playing basketball at a minimum to mid April and in many cases to late April, early May, sometimes even as far as early June. That's an extremely long season. And when you factor in that the guy's got to spend a month ramping up for training camp too. It's already too long. I don't think you're going to be able to convince NBA players to be like hey, you guys know how you show up on October 1st in shape? How about we show up on September 1st in shape? Like I just don't think you're going to be able to get NBA players to buy in to that idea. That said, I do think like the idea of like trying to get rid of back to backs and making the schedule more, more tenable for the, the, for all of the players is a good idea. I just think you do it by reducing the number of games. Love your point about like having long flights, cross, cross country travel, be surrounded around two days off and things like that. Just find ways to make it much more manageable for the players. As far as the playoff series go, I think the NBA playoffs are like especially the first round. Like I mean we see it in our numbers with the way we cover the league. Like the first and second round of the playoffs are literally, literally the highlight of the NBA season in many cases. So I don't think there's any point in reducing the volume. There's. I would keep 7777 for the four rounds and just find a way to shorten the number of regular season games to accomplish the goals you're talking about with removing back to backs and making cross country travel more easy to manage.
- [40:25]
Sophie Cunningham
This is Sophie Cunningham from Show Me Something. Do you know the symptoms of moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea, or OSA in adults with obesity? They may be happening to you without you knowing. If anyone has ever said you snored loudly, or if you spend your days fighting off excessive tiredness, irritability and concentration issues, it may be due to osa. OSA is a serious condition where your airway partially or completely collapses during sleep, which may cause breathing interruptions and oxygen deprivation. Learn more at don'tsleep on OSA.com this information is provided by Lilly, a medicine company.
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Jason (Host of Hoops Tonight)
Podcast is sponsored by PayPal. All right, let's talk holiday shopping. From now through December 8th, you can get 20% cash back when you pay in four with PayPal. No fees, no interest. This limited time offer is perfect for the Black Friday and Cyber Monday deals you've been eyeing. Save the offer in the app right now. So whether it's a must have merch or for that signed jersey you've been eyeing, PayPal helps you make the most of your money this holiday. Expires December 8th. See paypal.com promoterms subject to approval.
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Jason (Host of Hoops Tonight)
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Jason (Host of Hoops Tonight)
Watching us Cut the camera. They see us.
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Only pay for what you need@libertymutual.com savings very underwritten by Liberty Mutual Insurance Company affiliates excludes Massachusetts. You often mention how you feel the Lakers need an athletic starting caliber wing or three in order to truly contend in the top Western Conference. While I do agree the Lakers could use a good wing, I find that a far more glaring weakness in the starting lineup is the absence of a true defensive one. A truly elite point of attack guard with excellent screen navigation to unlock more coverage versatility and keep the opposing quicker guards in check. Replacing Rui with such a player in the starting lineup would also push everybody else towards a more natural defensive role. Austin becomes your two, Luka gets to defend wings where he's shown some success, and so on. Why do you feel like replacing Rui with an athletic wing would improve the roster when it doesn't seem to address the most glaring hole? True perimeter speed. Thanks as always. Love the show. So to me, I'm looking for a three that can guard ones. That's kind of the point. Like there's, you know, you mentioned a very interesting point having to do with, you know, screen navigation. But there's many ways to defend in drop coverage. So what you're talking about with the coverage versatility is so right now with the Lakers starters with Rui in there, they want to switch. They want to switch because everyone's slow and big. So the idea is if you switch and contain, keep the ball in front, you have good help recover on the back line. You can essentially just kind of tilt the defense towards the shots you want to live with and allow yourself to defend fine in the large sample. Haven't done it well this year yet, at least not in the short sample we saw with in the Utah game. But I think there's there's an ability for that coverage to work. We talked about that a little bit in the Lakers collective pod yesterday, but it gets complicated because if you want to run drop coverage, you need to have someone that can get over screens. There's multiple ways to do that, though. There's the case in Wallace, like, I'm attached to your hip the whole damn way and I'm like getting over the top and staying attached and making you uncomfortable. But then there's the length and rear view contest way of looking at it, right? This is like kind of like the Jaden McDaniels, Herb Jones type of archetype, where it's like they're still fast, they don't necessarily stay as attached, but they have such good length that when they're back pressuring, they still get in the offensive play player's head because they feel like if they rise up in the mid range, they're going to get blocked from behind, which then can trick them into essentially forcing their penetration further into the rim where now you have your drop coverage big waiting. It's essentially a funnel, right? You're funneling them into that big man case. And Kayson Wallace archetype is going to do it by staying attached. Herb Jones archetype is going to do it by using his length, pressuring from behind, right? So like, those are like the two different ways to do it. To me, I, I still look at that roster as like needing kind of like length and athleticism rather than just speed. On the perimeter, you need both. But if you can find a three that accomplishes a version of both, that is where you're cooking with grease or cooking with gas, right? So like for instance, I've talked about Andrew Wiggins. Now Andrew Wiggins to me is in his 30s now. So like, I don't think he necessarily makes sense for the big picture goals of the Lakers. But strictly viewing it through the short term, he's an example of what I'm talking about. A big fast athlete who brings speed, who brings athleticism, who is an excellent rebounder, but that you can also deploy on the other team's best player and has some versatility. Because again, the other thing that you're forgetting here is like, let's say you have a more of an athletic one that you bring in and you have like this, let's just use a Davion Mitchell, for example. Davion Mitchell at the one, Austin Luca LeBron and Deandre Ayton. What happens when you run into some of the bigger, you know, bigger ball handlers in the league like is she. Is Shay Gil Alexander just going to shoot over the top of Davion Mitchell every single time? Right? Like there's a certain amount of like size and position that you deal with there too. The idea of finding more of a three that is a like perimeter defender type a la Andrew Wiggins. But the reason why we keep coming back to Herb Jones is he's a younger player to where like you can at least convince yourself if you're making that trade. Like if you trade a first round pick for Andrew Wiggins, you're trading a first round pick for a guy that doesn't necessarily fit Austin and Lucas timeline. You trade a first round pick for Herb Jones, you could be like this is our starting three for the next five years. Like this is legitimately a foundational piece next to Austin and Luca. That's a guy who can guard an opposing point guard. Guard an opposing like can he guard a Shay Gilder Alexander? Devin Booker? A bigger forward like a Kawhi Leonard? Can he guard like all of these different types of players? Can he guard a Jamal Murray? Can he guard like like the. Can he guard a Tyrese Maxi? Can he guard like these various different types of ball handlers? That's where like a traditional kind of like three makes sense as a guy that could kind of round things out for that unit. Tim Legler on the All NBA podcast muse that the injury spree in the NBA right now is caused by a lack of preseason prep from teams and athletes. He remarked that the NBA is much less physical than when he played and that players are just not doing enough to prepare themselves for the 82. Do you agree with this? Personally, I think that's bogus and surprisingly short sighted take from a guy I generally respect. I think your take and most of the new school analysis are are 100% on the money. The NBA has grown into a far more physically demanding and taxing game than it used to be due to the speed and pace of play, lateral movement and 82 games is just far too many for the intensity of the current game. Love the showman. Keep up the good work. Yeah, I similarly, I have the utmost respect for Tim Legler, but I just disagree with that point of view. There's. There's a lot of. I think every basketball player has a certain affinity for their era and I think that that can color everybody's analysis. Like I. You bet your ass that 20 years from now I will probably be the guy that's like back in the 2010s, you know, they Played this way and it was better. You know, like that's just human nature, right? I think like they're. The points you made are all pretty obvious, right? Like the, the game is insanely fast. Way more possessions in transition, way more sprinting. Even within the half court. There's way more speed, there's way more attacks on each possession, the side to side, the drive and kick basketball. The amount of times that you're sprinting, closing out, planting, changing direction and then all of a sudden turning and running the other way up the floor like it is just much harder on the body. And again, we're not seeing dudes like according to the physicality that Tim Legler is referencing. We're not seeing like a bunch of dislocated shoulders and like, and like, like broken wrists and like injuries that come from physicality. We're seeing soft tissue injuries and ligament injuries. We're seeing Achilles acl, calf strains, hamstring strains. That's the kind of stuff that we're seeing and that is all associated with the human body of basically just not being able to withstand the grind of the NBA regular season now with how fast the game is played and how much body movement there is in any given game. Next question. Help me make. We have two more. Help me make sense of this Raptors team and their success this year. No superstars and feels a lot like the Pacers last year. So we did a Raptor segment last week on Friday and then we hit them again at one point earlier this week. So I'm not going to go too far into it, but the very short version of it is they've after kind of a rough start to the season, they've recaptured some of their defensive identity from the tail end of last year. They're a very good defensive team. They're getting out and transition a ton which is part of that like defense to transition attack that is super successful in the modern NBA. You get stops, you run. When you run out in transition, you're roughly 20% more efficient than you are in the half court. It's just an opportunity to build additional margin. The surprise has been they, you know one of the things we talked about coming into the season is they've got a lot of playmaking talent. They've got a lot of guys that can pass the basketball. So we talked about in the half court like they got shooting issues, but what if they're just like surgical in their playmaking ability and that's what's manifested. They've played really impressive drive and kick basketball They're a high assist percentage team. They move the ball well. And then to your point about the superstars, like I know they don't have necessarily bonafide superstars but Scotty Barnes and Brandon Ingram can make some plays and like they had a game the other day. I'm trying to remember who it was they were playing, but we talked about it on the show. But Brandon, I think it was Charlotte and Brandon Ingram like or Scotty Barnes like back Miles Bridges down in the post and like dunked on his ass and then like went down and had a huge block on. I think Brandon Ingram had a huge block on Mason Plumlee at the rim and then or Cal Brenner. I came one of those, the Hornets bigs, I think it was called Brenner. They go down the other end of Brandon Ingram like makes a beautiful read out of a post. Up to a guy cutting down the lane to RJ Barrett, I think who gets a little layup and they go down to the other end and then RJ and then Scotty Barnes gets a huge block right at the rim. That cleans up a play. Like Scotty Barnes and Brandon Ingram can kind of leverage themselves to make superstar esque plays which can help them win win games on the margins. Lastly. Hey Jason, great episode as always. Coming up on a quarter of the season played. Who would be your MVP so far? Do you think Shea will go back to back because of how transcendent OKC has been? Personally I have Luca in first. He just has has to keep playing that way. He has all the season. He has the keep playing the way he has all season and play enough games. What are your thoughts? So it's interesting because I think all four of the top guys have had good cases for different reasons. Like Giannis and Luca have done the most with the least. Right. Like with how often with who's been available for the Lakers and with just the limitations of the Bucks roster in general. Those are two pretty limited teams that have won at a pretty high rate because of just how transcendently good Luka and Giannis have been. Now Luca has won more. I think he's 8 and 3 in the 11 games he's played. So I'd probably give a slight edge to Luca there. Luka's been absurd. He's averaging like what, 34 and a half, nine and nine to start the year. I'm like 62% true. Shooting like Luke has been outrageous. But then the other two guys have very good cases for different reasons. Like Jokic, very much has the I'm still the best player in the world case, and I think he's shown that over the last few weeks. He's been absolutely ridiculous. He's averaging like a, like a. I can't remember the exact numbers, but he's like close to like 33, 34 points per game and like 12 rebounds, 12 assists per game. Absurdly efficient like Jokic has been absurd over the last few weeks. He looks like the best player in the world. And Shay's I think like 15 and one when he plays. So like, like we talked about it, there's so many different ways to build an MVP case. Like who's doing the most for their particular team and making the most out of the least. That's where Luka and Giannis land. Who's the best player on the best team. That's where Shay lands. And who's the best player? That's Nicole Jokic. Right. I think all four players have very good cases. I'd probably give the slight edge to Luka at this point, but I think it's roughly a tie between all four of those guys. And what you mentioned, the big key there, what's going to ultimately end up measuring all of this is in the big picture. How many games do these guys play and how many games do their teams win? Like If Shea wins 17 more games than the second place team in the west, he's winning MVP. But if the Lakers are only six or seven games back, Luke is getting MVP. If the Nuggets are only two or three games back, Jokic is getting MVP. Right. If Giannis and the Bucks finish with the two seed in the East, Giannis is probably getting MVP. Right? So like, there's all those different factors that kind of have to shake out. That's why it's just kind of too early for this sort of thing. But if you asked me to give an edge right now, I'd give the edge to Luka because I think he's done the most with the least while also combining it with wins to this point. All right, guys, that's all I have for today. As always, I sincerely appreciate you guys for supporting us and supporting the show. I hope you all have an incredible weekend. If you're down to watch some hoops tonight again, we're hanging out on playback for Nuggets Rockets. Otherwise I'll see you guys on Monday for power ratings.
- [55:48]
Jason (Host of Hoops Tonight)
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- [56:16]
Sophie Cunningham
This is Sophie Cunningham from Show Me Something. Do you know the symptoms of moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea, or osa, in adults with obesity? They may be happening to you without you knowing. If anyone has ever said you snored loudly, or if you spend your days fighting off excessive tiredness, irritability and concentration issues, it may be due to osa. OSA is a serious condition where your airway partially or completely collapses during sleep, which may cause breathing interruptions and oxygen deprivation. Learn more at don'tsleep on OSA.com this information is provided by Lily, a medicine company. Amazon Five Star Theater presents Real customer reviews performed by a real serious improv podcaster. Tonight's review Furby I bought a Furby as a nostalgic joke. Joke's on me. Day 1 Adorable giggles wiggles its ears, says me love you.
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Sophie Cunningham
Day 7 It blinked at me like.
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Sophie Cunningham
I love it.
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Sophie Cunningham
Aaron M. Find your perfect gift this holiday on Amazon. Okay, only 10 more presents to wrap.
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Jason (Host of Hoops Tonight)
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Sophie Cunningham
This is an I Heart podcast.