Michelle Williams (0:00)

This is an iHeart podcast. I also wanna address the Tonys. On a recent episode of Checking In With Michelle Williams, I open up about feeling snubbed by the Tony Awards. Do I? I was never mad. I was disappointed because I had high hopes to hear this and more on Disappointment and Protecting youg Peace. Listen to Checking In With Michelle Williams from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Pod, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Jason (0:35)

I know a lot of cops. They get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. This is Absolute Season one, Taser Incorporated.

Ebony (0:51)

I get right back there and it's bad.

Jason (0:55)

Listen to Absolute Season 1 Taser incorporated on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Michelle Williams (1:06)

Welcome to Pretty Private with ebony, the podcast where silence is broken and stories are set free. I'm Ebony and every Tuesday I'll be sharing all new anonymous stories that would challenge your perceptions and give you new insight on the people around you. Every Tuesday, make sure you listen to Pretty Private from the Black Effect Podcast Network. Tune in on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

Ebony (1:34)

Check out behind the Flow, a podcast documentary series following the launch of San Diego Football Club. San Diego coming to MLS is going to be a game changer because this.

Michelle Williams (1:46)

Region has been hungry for a men's professional soccer team.

Ebony (1:49)

We need to embrace this community. Listen to San Diego FC behind the flow on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, welcome to Hoops Tonight here at the Volume. Happy Monday, everybody. Hope all of you guys are having a great start to your week. Got a really fun mailbag today. Lots of really interesting questions from you guys. We're going to have an opportunity to hit several teams that we haven't hit yet this summer. We've got nine questions. Lots of really interesting stuff. Lots of fun stuff to get to. Let's get started. You guys know the drill. Before we get started, subscribe to the Hoops Tonight YouTube channel so you don't miss any more of our videos. Follow me on twitter_jason lt so you guys don't miss show announcements. Don't forget about our podcast feed wherever you get your podcasts under Hoops Tonight. It's also super helpful if you leave a rating and a review on that front. Jackson's doing great work on our social media feeds, Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok. Make sure you guys follow us over there for more content throughout the year. And then, last but not least, if you want to get mailbag questions into the mailbag, occasionally I'll tweet out asking for mailbag questions, but I also grab them from the YouTube comments. Remember, underneath our full episodes, write Mailbag with a colon and then write your question. We'll get to them in our weekly mailbags throughout the rest of the year. All right, let's talk some basketball. First Question Every year a young team has a major win totals jump. The Rockets last season, OKC in 2024, Sacramento in 2023, Memphis in 2022, the Suns in 2021, the Mavs in 2020, the Nuggets in 2019, et cetera. So why is nobody super high on the Spurs? This feels like the most obvious prediction ever to me. A roster that goes 12 deep with awesome talent and awesome defense. I struggle to see on paper the argument for either LA team or the warriors having a better record than them this season. So let's dig into this a little bit deeper. I still think even though those teams have their flaws, the LA teams, Golden State, some of these teams have their flaws. In the playoff context, the top of the west is still ridiculously awesome. Oklahoma City won the title last year and is the prohibited favorite to win the title again next year. Houston was the 2 seed last year and added Kevin Durant. Denver, I would argue has the most talented roster they've had in the Jokic era. So a definitive top three and then after that. These are good. These are flawed teams. They have their issues. It may prevent them from winning the title, but these are really good teams that are going to be tough to beat on any given night in the regular season. The Lakers, Luka Doncic in a revenge campaign, a pissed off LeBron, Austin, Reeves. They added Deandre Ayton to their weakest position group. The Clippers. If they sign Bradley Beal, they'll be better than they were last year because they bolstered their frontcourt depth with Brook Lopez and John Collins. The Timberwolves. They've literally made the conference finals twice in a row and Anthony Edwards is improving dramatically every single year. The warriors looked amazing post Jimmy Butler trade until Steph got hurt. They add Al Horford. They're an improved team. They haven't done anything else yet, but they are still very good. Dallas Anthony Davis, Cooper flag. A ton of talent, albeit a little imbalanced if Kyrie Irving returns at any point Next season they'll be super tough to beat. And I saw a video of him on the court shooting basketball the other day. He's making progress. If he returns around, you know, March or April, that's a tough team to beat. That is eight really dangerous teams that will all go into the season thinking they can win the title. Now. The spurs will be really good too. Obviously. Victor Wembanyama could be a top five player this year potentially, right? De' Aaron Fox made my top 25 players last summer when we did our player rankings. They added a legit backup center and Luke Cornett. And there's a ton of young talent on this roster. Obviously Dylan Harper has all star potential. We've seen Carter Bryant look like they're kind of like most versatile perimeter defender at the three spot, something they didn't have on the roster before this. They have a young core already in place with guys like Jeremy Sohan, Devin Vassell and Stefan Castle. That's a lot of talent. But all of those guys are super young. And there's a lot of variance in the potential outcomes there. Not just for how each individual player plays because they're young, but how well they all fit together as a basketball team. And I'd argue there's even variance with Wemby. He could be the fifth best player in the league next year, but he could also be somewhere around the 10th or 11th best to be, you know, if his skill development doesn't take a leap or he struggles with health throughout the year. The point is, with a lot of these teams in the west, we know what they're going to look like because there's some continuity there, but we don't really know what the spurs are going to look like. I actually think, and by the way, this is the Western Conference. There are a lot of good teams that end up in the Play in tournament. I actually think it's more likely than not that San Antonio ends up in the play in tournament than them being a top four seed, for example. That doesn't mean I don't believe in San Antonio's core or that I don't believe in Victor Wembanyama. It just means that the top of the west is a bloodbath and it's just really hard in terms of racking up win totals. It's going to be hard for any team to rack up win totals, let alone a young team with a bunch of young players that have a wide variety of potential outcomes this year as far as like Houston, because obviously we're looking at Houston last year as an example. Well, Jason, they're young too, right? Well, first of all they had several vets in their rotation. Fred Van Vliet is a vet who's won a championship. Dylan Brooks is a veteran who's become a really stable, solid starting three in this league. Stephen Adams is a vet and they had an elite unit. Their depth of perimeter defense talent was so off the charts that it caused nightly problems for every team on their schedule. I think Victor Wembanyama certainly capable of anchoring an elite defense, but I don't think the roster as currently constructed is an elite defensive roster just yet. It's a lot of young players, a lot of theoretical guys that could fill certain roles. But I don't think they're quite yet the like top five type of defensive roster that Houston was and I think they're a middle of the pack offense at best. Right. These things take time and a play in appearance in the west again is nothing to make light of. The warriors were a play in team last year. I viewed them as a legitimate championship contender until Steph got hurt. Right. The west playing bracket has pretty good teams in it every single year. That's the nature of the conference. So yeah. Does that mean I think they're going to finish, you know, 10, 12 games below all those guys? No, but I could see them finishing three, four games below the top four seeds and end up in the play in bracket because that's just the nature of the Western Conference. Has nothing to do with what San Antonio is capable of or the value that I see in their core. It's just the west is a bloodbath, man. And it's just, it's just difficult to just step in there and start kicking everyone's ass. Next question. What are the chances percentage wise that the Wizards can be a playoff team this upcoming season? I personally love what they've done this offseason. This continuation of the question. I personally love what they've done this off season. They have a nice mixture of intriguing young prospects and established veterans like Middleton, McCollum and Smart. Are they a sneaky 8 6? I think there's a pretty solid chance that the Wizards make the play in bracket this year and just by being there, that gives them a solid chance of getting one of the eight playoff spots. Right. I said before the draft that Trey Johnson was my favorite prospect. Not that he was the best prospect. I don't think he's the type of prospect that Cooper Flagg is. Just that he was my favorite to watch because his Skill set of being able to shoot off the move going in every direction but also off the dribble scoring. I think that's tailor made for an NBA offense and he is by the way com like completely demonstrated that in his first couple of summer league games. Through two games in Vegas, 39 points, 14 for 24 from the field and 5 for 11 from three. All of it on display too, like shooting, coming off of screens, shooting out of spots, spot up situations, some high level off the dribble scoring. I was really impressed by his ability to dribble into contact and like kind of get his shoulder into players and bump them off and rise up for that little floater. He's shown some really soft touch. He's shooting a very high and soft ball in summer league in both his jump shots and with his floaters. I just think there's always a spot in the NBA for a guy who can score out of the actions that NBA teams run. And Trey is already good at that stuff and it's only going to get better. Alex Sar blocked eight shots yesterday, was given Drew Timmy Fitz. He's a problem Bub Carrington had moments towards the end of last season as a primary creator after Jordan Poole got traded. Baku Labali is like the perfect three man to put that group together defensively. They brought in Cam Whitmore for more depth at forward, which is a position group where they're a little thin. They have a well balanced roster with like exciting young talent, but also older vets like Marcus Smart, CJ McCollum and Chris Middleton that can either be kept around as mentors and guys that fill smaller roles or guys that you can move at some point for additional asset return. The big thing that makes me excited about Washington is I think their young core has the potential to be great on defense too, which again is a prerequisite to consistent success in the NBA. Like when you're looking at young cores, you want to know why Oklahoma City is so successful as a young core? Because Chet is an amazing defender, Jalen Williams is a very, very good defender, and Shay Gildas Alexander is a plus defender. And so it just gives them a really strong foundation to put little role players in and smaller roles around them. I think that this Wizard's core, with Bilakula Bali, with Alex Starr protecting the rim, they have the potential to be a great defense too. And you ditched Kyle Kuzma and Jordan Poole, the two guys that could have disrupted the winning culture with their kind of general unserious behavior. I think the key for this team is going to be offensive organization. This is a team that if you can generate quality roll man touches, quality pop touches for Alex Sar, quality opportunities coming off of action for Trey Johnson, a sophisticated five out offense. If they can get that established, that gives them a high floor on the offensive end because Alex Sar has that potential, because Trey Johnson has that natural skill set, because Bub Carrington can score in those actions. They have the pieces with which if they can be organized properly to be a successful offense, the team is on a fun trajectory. I'm actually really, really looking forward to watching the Wizards this year. Like I said, Trey Johnson is one of my favorite prospects that I've evaluated in the last couple of years. So like it just looks like a fun, exciting team that in a way that they have not been in previous years. Next question. If you had to choose someone non flag to win Rookie of the Year, who would you pick? By the way, saw you after Summer league waiting for an Uber but didn't want to bother you. Keep up the great work. First of all, never hesitate to come up and say hello. It's a big part of why we're out there. I live in Tucson, I don't get much opportunity to connect with our fans. So I want you guys to come up and say hello whenever you are out there in Vegas. But secondly, if I had to pick by the way, I do think Cooper Flag will win Rookie of the Year. I think he's the best player in the class and I think he's going to have a big role on a winning team right away. But if I had to pick, it would be Tre Johnson. I think that he is going to get a lot of looks in NBA offense that he's already capable of making for a fun, exciting young team. I think there's a chance that he could put up some decent statistical production this year which could put him in the mix for Rookie of the Year. All right folks, something special is about to happen in the Big Easy. UFC 318 is coming to New Orleans and it's absolutely stacked. DraftKings sportsbook, the official sports betting partner of the UFC has has all the action you need. We're talking Holloway versus Poirier 3, the trilogy, the BMF titles on the line. But more than that, this is Dustin Poirier's last fight. That's it. The final walk. One of the all time greats. You taking Holloway's volume or Poirier's power? If you've never bet UFC with DraftKings, don't worry just pick something simple like a fighter to win and make your pick. That's it. Straightforward and easy. And check this out. New customers who bet just five bucks. You get $150 in bonus bets instantly. That's a huge boost to get started. Don't miss Poirier's final fight. Download the DraftKings sportsbook app right now and use code HOOPS. That's H O O P S. That's code hoops for new customers to get $150 in bonus bets instantly. When you bet just five bucks only on DraftKings, the crown is yours. Gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER in New York, call 877-8-HOPENY or text HOPENY to 467-369 in Connecticut. Help is available for problem gambling. Call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org Please play responsibly on behalf of Boothill Casino and Resort in Kansas. 21 plus. Age and eligibility varies by jurisdiction. Void. In Ontario, bonus bets expire seven days after issuance. For additional terms and responsible gaming resources, see DKNG. Next question. With LeBron James potentially entering the final year with the Lakers next season, how do you envision the Lakers identity evolving not just in terms of playstyle, but also in terms of leadership and marketing once LeBron eventually steps away? I just imagine the season to season urgency shifting because LeBron was so old and you know, he's entering into his 23rd season. But like, even when he was in like his 19th, 20th season, like, there was this feeling that's like, this is going to end soon, right? Like, he's going to slow down soon, right? Like, none of us predicted that in year 22 he'd definitively still be one of the 10 best players in the NBA. That was like, I, I think even the most strident LeBron fans would be like, this is kind of crazy, right? Like, it's just, it was difficult to predict, but the feeling, the feeling, the perception, as though there was this very tight window to work with. And obviously with a player that has the pedigree that LeBron has and all the pressure and expectation that comes with that, it just felt like every year was the last chance, right? I've said it on the show. Every time that they would talk about stuff, I'd be like, oh, you're going to wait. So you want to figure it out the year that LeBron turns 40 in the playoff run, like that, that doesn't seem like a good idea. Why don't we try to be more aggressive in the short term. Right. Like that was the, the cloud that was hanging over the team all the time. It just felt like the finish line could appear at any time. Like, it was like you're driving on a foggy road and you're going to run into a wall at any time and you don't know where it is. And we haven't hit the wall yet and we're just still driving through the fog. But it just felt like that wall was coming at any minute and it just, it just made it difficult. Right. And with Luca being 26 years old, it makes it so that it's less foggy and you're pretty sure you're not going to run into a wall anytime soon. And so as a result of that, there's much more of a long term approach to everything. You can see now, like it being a situation where there's no urgency to make everything happen in this particular season. Now, all of a sudden, all your asset moves need to be moved for all of the. All the moves in which you include assets need to be geared around getting assets in return that are not diminishing assets that are not declining or depreciating assets. Right. If you're going to move a draft pick, you want to get a player back in their mid to late twenties that you can count on being good for at least five years. Right. That you could see playing alongside Luka for a long time. The entire, the entire identity of the team has shifted because of that. You, you don't make a move for Jake Laravia and let Dorian Finney smith walk. If LeBron is 40 and Anthony Davis is on the roster and you feel like this is. You feel like you're about to run into the wall at any point. You're trying to maximize that talent. By the way, they made the Dorian Finney Smith trade before they knew Luka Doncic was coming. It's just a very, very different situation now. The Lakers can actually invest in long term basketball culture and try to invest in some continuity. I think LeBron is the best player to ever touch basketball, but he just applied a lot of pressure to the situation and that pressure will be relieved when he's out of the picture. You mentioned rooting for LeBron James several times over the years. With his retirement likely approaching, who do you see stepping into that role for you and why? Asking, As a fellow LeBron fan, love the show. The depth of analysis and passion for the game really stand out. Thank you so much for the kind words and for supporting the show. I don't think that I'll ever have a sentimental attachment to a player the way I did with LeBron ever again. I, I've told this story before, but I grew up in a family that was very. Baseball and football focused. Both my brothers played college football. It was just, it was much more of like a. At home at night, we'd have the Arizona Diamondbacks on tv. We were always watching NFL games on the weekend. It just was not a basketball household. And I actually just kind of organically ran into Cleveland Cavaliers games in the, you know, 2006, 2007 era. And, you know, as a 15 year old kid, was how I fell in love with basketball. So LeBron for me is, is attached to my love of the game because he was the guy that got me to fall in love with the game. And so that will lead to a certain amount of sentimental attachment for me that I'll, I'll never have for another player. I'm, you know, now I'm a grown ass man. This is what I do for a living. And like, I was, I was actually scrolling through just like, literally the list of all the leading scorers in the NBA and I was like, is there another player that I could see myself liking? And it's just not. It's just nowhere even close to that because it's just not the same type of emotional experience it was for me when I was 15 years old. Right. But obviously I watch basketball and there are players that I really like and players that I don't like as much. The guys that I would say are my three favorite players after LeBron retires are Nicole Jokic, Steph Curry, and Anthony Edwards. Nikola, Jokic and Steph. I just think the way that they play offensive basketball is straight up beautiful. Even as, as big of a LeBron fan as I am, I find Jokic and Steph to play a more aesthetically appealing style of offensive basketball. And I just really enjoy watching them play. I just think it's really fun to watch. I was thinking about this with Tyrese Halliburton too. Like, you want to know why the Pacers were so much fun to watch? You want to know why the Pacers are such a rating draw, why the warriors are such a ratings draw, why the Nuggets have such a powerful core of fans despite being in a small market? It's because when you turn on the TV and you watch the Denver Nuggets play basketball and you watch the Indiana Pacers play basketball, and you watch the Golden State warriors play basketball, it's very fun to watch because there's so much ball and player movement. Everyone's involved and invested. It's just a beautiful brand of basketball, right. And the Anthony Edwards to me it just kind of ties into the old school, you know, two guard that all of us have always loved. He brings the vertical element that, that a lot of the two guards in the league don't bring right now. He brings the shit talky attitude element that a lot of guys in the league don't bring right now. Ain't as just likable in that sense, but I just love basketball. So even with the players that I don't particularly like, I can find parts of their game that I really like. Like guys like Luka Doncic and Shay Gilders. Alexander are two high volume offensive players at the top of the league that over the years I haven't liked watching them as much. And even with them it's like there are elements to ball handling with Luka that I personally apply in practice in my game because I think it's beautiful ball handling and it's beautiful footwork and similar with Shay Gilbert Alexander for both of those guys it's like contact dribbling. There's a step back move that, that shake elders. Alexander uses that like that I have tried to add to my game because I think it's such a useful move. It's kind of like an off the dribble step back where you kind of get in that left hand high hesitation and just throw a quick like kind of jab step in and out dribble to get that separation for that pull up. Three, like there are things that I will find in in players games that I really like even if I don't necessarily like that player. Right. Next question. The Timberwolves basically have the same roster as last year minus Nikhil Alexander. Walker, how much do you think one, a year of chemistry with Randall and Dante DiVincenzo and two Dante development from young players like Terence Shannon Jr. Jalen Clark and Rob Dillingham could improve the team from last year or will that be negated by Mike Conley getting older? So first of all, this is just the reality of how the NBA works. When the Wolves made the Western conference finals the first year, the year they lost to Dallas. So two years ago Anthony Edwards was making less than 15 million. We were talking about the Wizards earlier. Alex Starr, Bilakulibali, Bub Carrington and Trey Johnson will combine next year to make 32 million. Just Chris Middleton, Chris Middleton, Marcus Smart and CJ McCollum will make 85 million next year. That's just the reality of rookie contracts and veteran contracts. Right now Ant is on his rookie extension. He's on year two of making a lot more money in this coming season. That comes with realities in roster construction. There will be similar issues for Oklahoma City in the future. Right, like the they just resigned both Jalen Williams and Chad Holmgren to long term deals. Shea's already on a he signed another supermax extension. Like those guys now are going to make so much money in a couple of years that it's going to be a lot of rookie contract role players that are surrounding them all of a sudden. The individual development of Jalen Williams, the individual development of Chet Holmgren will determine whether or not they can keep winning. Same thing goes for Minnesota. Yeah, it's the young players. It's Terence Shannon, it's Jalen Clark, it's Rob Dillingham, but also Anthony Edwards himself. SGA looks like a considerably better basketball player than him right now. Like a tier above. Like it looks like you get to those four guys at the top, you know, Luka and Jokic and Shay and Giannis and then it seems like there's a gap and it might be as high as 5 or as low as 7 or 8, but that gap between 4 and 5 is pretty substantial. Shay demonstrated himself to be a considerably better player in the Minnesota series in the conference finals. We talked about it in the gap in Shay's ability to generate consistent offense against elite defense that's packing the paint because he can get to that short to mid range shot making that's so reliable. And Anthony Edwards basically abandoned that last year for high variance pull up three point shooting which abandoned him when he needed it in the series. If he can't change that dynamic, if Ant can't close the gap with Shea, I'm not going to sit here and look at oh well, they let Nikhil Alexander Walker go. That's why they can't beat Oklahoma City. No, like that is normal. That's like part of the process of the, the trajectory of NBA teams is they have to pay young players and and everything just becomes more expensive. Now do I think Anthony Edwards can improve individually enough to compensate for the loss of a Nikhil Alexander Walker? Yes, I do. It's going to look different. Ant is entering into a phase of his development where his improvement will be less in the form of box score production. It'll be more in like situational execution, end of games, playoff situation, stuff like that. Right. Like last year, Anthony Edwards averaged 28, 6 and 5 on 60% true shooting. You're not going to do a whole lot better than that. He's probably at his peak. Like when he's 27, 28, he's probably like a 36 and 6 on like 62% true shooting kind of guy. Like, that's better than where he's at right now, but not dramatically. It'll be his situational execution, how resilient he is in the playoffs. That'll be what determines how good Anthony Edwards becomes and how much the Timberwolves win while he's in that jersey. Next question. To fix the regular season and prevent stars from getting injured in the playoffs, do you think changing the amount of teams that make the playoffs to four per conference would make a difference for the league? Regular season matters more and less. Playoff minutes with one less round. So I would go the other direction. I think the playoffs are the best product that the NBA offers. I love the NBA regular season. We have fun covering it here, but you guys know how it gets. It's like the first two weeks in October, we're all super invested as we learn about the teams, and then we all kind of like tune out. Now. We, we can us die hards, we still pay attention. Obviously, I do it for a living, so we still cover the league, but it's like, it's not like we're all as invested in November NBA basketball. Then suddenly we all circle back and it's like, oh, in season tournament, let's watch these eight teams play in the single elimination. This is kind of fun. And then when it's done, it's like, all right, time to go into late December. Okay, let's all tune in for Christmas Day. This is. Okay, well, let's take a break. And then it's like mid January, we're like, well, I'll start talking trades and different things before the deadline. And then after the deadline, there's like a two, three week span where we all are super excited to watch the teams that made trades. And then we're in late February and it's like, okay, we're kind of just in a holding pattern for the playoffs and all the teams that are down in the play in bracket are like playing super hard every night. But like, everyone at the top is starting to put together some confusing losses that are mostly geared around effort. And then what happens? We get to April, and from mid April to mid June, it's just crazy good basketball every single night. Jackson and I were talking over dinner in Vegas like it was like every single night in the playoffs there was a great game. It's like, oh, tonight we have Denver versus the Clippers. Tonight we have this awesome Warriors Rockets game seven. Tonight we have this really fun game between the Knicks and the Celtics. Like it was like every single night there was headline matchups that, that's the peak of NBA, of the NBA basketball product. So I wouldn't mess with that in terms of volume. If I did anything to mess with the playoffs, I would just make the schedule less grueling. And so I think the answer is stretching the season in general with fewer gains over the same span. So still start in, you know, training camp in early October, still finish with the finals in mid June. But drop the regular season to 66 games. Keep the in season tournament, keep the play in tournament, keep four seven game series rounds. But if you stretch, if you shorten the regular season to 66 games in, space everything out, you can have no back to backs in the regular season and a few more days in the postseason where there's no double days off or where there's more double days off. So like I like every travel day in the NBA playoffs should be an additional day off. So if you're going to have teams play, you know, on like a Monday and a Wednesday, have them be in the same city. And then if they're going to travel to the other city, give them two days off. Like make it just so that even in the conference finals, even in the second round, those, the second round of conference finals are kind of where everything gets like every other night and that's just a lot to ask and it wears bodies down and guys start getting hurt. So like if you shorten the regular season and you make it so that there are no back to backs and there's more days off in the postseason, more people will be healthy, more teams will play at the best of their ability. One of the problems the NBA has now is like, like radical swings in effort, like oh, blow out here and then a blowout the other way because everyone's so damn tired that like the team that's playing in front of their home crowd with urgency just dog walks the other team because they're beaten, their legs are shot. Like you'll have more competitive games when everybody's just healthy and more rested. But I wouldn't shorten the playoffs. I think that's the best product that the NBA has to offer right now. All right, two more questions. You've spoken of how since the Jimmy trade, especially in the playoffs, Steph's volume and efficiency went went back up because we had talked about how he had struggled earlier in the season. Do you think it'll carry into next season and be sustainable? And also, did you change your mind about the other warriors being second tier contenders based on last episode? I do think Steph will be great statistically next season. I think that Jimmy Butler does enough to lighten his workload and I think that Steph has a belief in this roster, a belief that he didn't have in years past. So I think it's more likely that he plays closer to his typical efficiency and scoring volume that he had, you know, in the more distant past. Like in 2021 and 2022. Right. As for joining the top tier, signing Horford helps. I think, you know, we've talked about it. I think it just gives you this preposterously high IQ defensive front court. I think he gives you the best of both worlds. Right. A Quinton Post esque stretch five that's probably a little bit more reliable just in terms of his overall decision making, but it also gives you a guy who can compete defensively in a way that Quinton Post could not. Right. But if they don't add a reliable perimeter score, I don't think I could put put them in that top tier with Denver, with okc, with Houston, and so that may not happen until the deadline. I don't think it's going to be Jonathan Kaminga. I saw another report that it's possible that Jonathan Kaminga just returns to the warriors next year. Do I think JK will be a little bit better than he was last year? Sure. But I still think he's a super clunky fit on this roster. And so if they don't turn something in that roster into a more reliable version of Buddy Hield, a reliable perimeter score, I don't think they can enter into that top tier of contention. But again, that's not an insult. Those teams are all good in that second tier in the West. Clippers are good, the Lakers are good, the warriors are good, the Timberwolves are good. That is a really talented group of teams. It's just that's the best roster Jokic has ever had and he's the best player in the world. Houston was the 2 seed and they added Kevin Durant and OKC just won the title. Like we're talking about a very, very high level group of teams there that you have to substantially improve your roster in order to enter into that list. Last question. What do you think a Kuzma Plus AJ Green plus first round pick could get the Bucks. Would the return be enough to put them into the top tier in the East? They are obviously not there as of now. Huge fan of the show. I've been watching since the beginning. Again, thank you for the support. So Kuzma and AJ Green gets you into the low 20s in millions in order for salary matching. So that kind of keeps you out of some of like the bigger fish that you could go after. But I do think it could potentially get them a more reliable ball handler, which is what they need. So they got Cole Anthony and Cole Anthony is fine. I think he's fine as a backup guard. He struggled in the postseason really with turnovers. He turned the ball over more. He had more like a time and a half as many turnovers as assists. A lot of like really sloppy stuff in the Boston series. So like, I mean, Cole Anthony's fine. I just don't, I don't think he's going to answer the bell for. He's closer to Kevin Porter Jr. As just another kind of like high variance, low floor type of guard that, that will on some nights shoot the ball well and look like a guy that could make this work, but often will just be inconsistent and not be able to reach that level. Here are some guys that are like somewhat realistic. Okay? Tyler Herro if things go south in Miami, CJ McCollum out of Washington, DeMar DeRozan out of Sacramento, Jordan Pool out of New Orleans, Kobe White out of Chicago, Anthony Simons out of Boston. These guys that are in that like 20 to 30 million dollars range, that are not what we would consider to be super, super high level guards, but that are not what we would consider to be untouchable by their respective teams as well. Those are the kinds of guys that I'd be making calls on. But like, I'm going to be honest, even if you got any of those guys, I'm not sure that it's enough to make the Bucks a like tier one contender. I admire the hell out of the Bucs for trying and they tried some crazy shit, but it's just such a deep hole to climb out of. And the teams at the top of the NBA are just so good. And you look at like, just think like the Knicks have their issues, they're more talented than the Bucks. The Cavs have their issues, they're more talented than the Bucks. I'm not even sure if they're more talented. If the Bucks are more talented than Orlando is currently constructed, they feel like a firm second tier team out in the Eastern Conference and maybe even a third tier team in the NBA overall. Even if they were to make that kind of move again, I admire the effort. I just think they have too deep of a hole to get out of it and it's nobody's fault. You know, like Damian Lillard aged out and got hurt right after you went after him. And he was a, he's a $50 million asset that's just really difficult to recoup. Return on the Wave and Stretch is like the most radical way to try to make use of him. And again, like, I admire the effort, but I just, I just don't think it's going to be enough to turn them into a serious contender. All right, guys, that's all I have for today. As always, I sincerely appreciate you guys for supporting me and supporting the show. We're going to take a couple days off now because I'm getting ready to move to Denver. We're actually making our first trip tomorrow. I would imagine we'll have something coming out later this week before the weekend, either on Thursday or Friday. So just keep an eye on my Twitter feed. I'll make an announcement when the time comes. But again, as always, I appreciate you guys for supporting us and supporting the show and I'll see you in later this week.