← The Herd with Colin Cowherd
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- [00:00]
Microsoft Representative
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- [01:39]
Jeff C
Yo, what's good? It's Jeff C from Club Five Twenty podcast here to share my latest fresh take on the 2025 NCAA tournament. Brought to you by Wendy's the Official Hamburger of March Madness. This past weekend was a great round 32. I had the best game of the year. Had to be the Maryland versus Colorado State game. It ended with a game winner. It was exciting. Derrick Queen Good shot. Looking ahead to the Sweet 16. I'm really looking forward to watching Arkansas versus Texas Tech. I'm looking forward to it because it's similar styles. They both play hard defense, they both greedy teams and they play in the post. It should be a battle for the ages. I'm also looking forward to the Duke vs. Arizona game. Both elite programs, legendary status. It should be a battle that we all looking forward to. Probably be the game of the night. And when it comes to the Final Four, I'm all in on Duke and Houston. Two great coaches, two legendary programs. Should be exciting for their road to the Final Four. More from me soon. But while you're watching the games, remember the freshest deal in fast foods. Gotta be Wendy's Right now you can get a junior bacon cheeseburger or a double stack for $1 with the in app offer and purchase again. Head to the Wendy's app to grab a $1 junior bacon cheeseburger or or a $1 double stack with the In App offer and a purchase for the freshest hamburger around. Gotta be Wendy's. The official hamburger of March Madness.
- [02:55]
Microsoft Representative
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Sam
Oh, I'm good overall. Good. That was a, so recording this after the Heat game, um, that was a emotional game. I don't, I don't know how else to put it. It felt like a big one and then it felt pretty deflating. But overall, it's been good. In warriors land since they made the Jimmy butler trade, technically 21 games. He sat one of them, but I'll take 16 and five.
- [05:58]
Microsoft Representative
Yeah, that's right. He did sit out one of them. I, I, I was joking with you last night because I've watched quite a bit of Heat lately. Just cause they've had a few national TV games and we've covered them on the show a little bit, and they've been so lifeless. And then last night, they just had it, they had the verb you and you said to me, and I like you and I, every time we've talked about the game, we've always been just drawn to just competitiveness and competitors and that nasty streak. And like, you were like, you know what? I got to hand it to the, to the Heat. They wanted it. Like they, they, they clearly this meant something to them and they went after it. They got it done.
- [06:33]
Sam
Yeah. I mean, to me, if you don't understand how good Bam. Adebayo is, throw that game on. He guarded Jimmy Butler, which, like, how many starting centers can just, you know, you, you could decide, you know, from opening tip, we're gonna have you guard the other team. Star wing, it's like him and Draymond, and lo and behold, those are two guys who tend to punch above their weight in the playoffs. Every year they make the playoffs, so.
- [06:58]
Microsoft Representative
Yeah, exactly.
- [06:59]
Sam
You know, hat tip to them. Heat culture, it's a real thing. Even if I was wondering if it was a real thing after they went on a losing streak when they lost Jimmy, it's still a real thing. Pat Riley is a Hall of Famer for a reason.
- [07:13]
Microsoft Representative
So we've had 20 games. I, you know, I think the experience of being a true fan in basketball is really unique. I've been kind of embracing it because I know when LeBron retires, I'm going to struggle with that because I, like, I don't really have a. That type of fanhood anymore because I live in Tucson, Arizona. I don't really have a team, so to speak. And. And when LeBron retires, I just won't have that kind of, like, sentimental attachment to anything. And so rooting for Luka Doncic, like, actually rooting for Luka Doncic has given me such a unique experience, like learning about him as a basketball player. I think. I think truly rooting for a player, you just learn so much. And so you've been truly rooting for Jimmy Butler now for 20 games. What has that experience been like? What have you been surprised by? What have you really loved about his game? Just talk a little bit about what that's been like.
- [08:06]
Sam
I mean, he was one of my favorite non warriors over the last decade. I always found myself rooting for the Heat in the playoffs. You know, Eastern Conference. I have no attachment to anyone, and I just love the way they play. And, you know, he's had some memorable playoff modes, so I felt like I knew him. But to your point, it's just not the same as when you're watching every game, opening tip to the end. And so the things that jump out to me are like, I thought he would be a good fit on the warriors because there's such a premium on IQ and ball movement and passing, and it's gone like five levels above what I thought it would be. I thought there would also be a little friction because he's traditionally been a bit of an ISO player and the warriors are traditionally not that type of team. And it's been the complete opposite. I mean, he's like. He's essentially playing like Andre Agudala, but with the ability to get to the rim and the free throw line. So that's been surprising. Other than that, I don't know that the other aspects of it have necessarily been that surprising. We've gone through kind of the ebbs and flow of how he asserts himself. He's a interesting player in the fact that he has a superstar impact on the game. Like, when you look at all the advanced metrics, he always grades out as one of the 10 to 15 best players, just in terms of Impacting winning. But he's not really an offensive superstar. You think of those playoff moments where he scored 40 plus and you think he's more of kind of your traditional I'm going to go get a bucket type of guy. And that's been the thing that watching him more, it's like, yeah, there'll be moments he does it, but that's really not his game at all. So I guess that's kind of been the other surprising thing.
- [09:49]
Microsoft Representative
Yeah, you know, it's fascinating because I think you could make the case that the warriors are best equipped to pull superstar level winning impact out of Jimmy Butler in this phase of his career. You sent me some numbers earlier and we're going to talk about it with, with Jonathan Kaminga here in a little bit. But just some of the difference in the on off numbers between him with Kaminga versus a guy like G. Santos, where it's like crisp, quick decision making that all fits within the flow of what they do in their five out offense versus a guy that like has more of a specific lane that he thrives in. And if things are operating in that lane, then he looks super impactful. But when it gets outside of that, he can struggle. And like, I think with Jimmy's versatility there is a downside and I think we saw a little bit of it last night in the sense that like if you, with that, without Steph, if he's entirely out of the the picture because he's injured, you're not going to get 25 and 8 from him every night. That's not necessarily a level he can get to anymore. But within, within the context of Steph being available, he's more than capable of lifting these bench units and they've been really good this year with Steph off the floor. With Jimmy on like, they've been astonishingly good. I want to say the net rating is almost plus 20 per per 100 possessions. They're killing teams. In that context, it is a little bit of a different journey and I think there's some like, if you, if you, if I was playing devil's advocate on the trade, I would say over the course of the rest of this year, next year, when Steph misses time, this team is going to look rough because of the fact that Jimmy is not necessarily the guy that can scale up in that specific ability. But ultimately that doesn't matter because this team isn't accomplishing anything unless Steph is healthy and available anyway. And in that context, his versatility is a superstar trait and it does pull Everything together. You mentioned the Andre Guadalupe piece. Like, to me, where you see so much of that is just like his nose for the ball and his ability to make reads in screening situations, when to slip, where, when to curl, when to do all these little different things. One of the things from watching Jimmy very closely with the warriors that stood out to me is he's one of the best people in the league at high pointing the basketball. So, like in a lot of the switching that teams use against Golden State, he'll end up with these like, inside seals and they'll float the ball up and he just gets it every damn time. And that has allowed him to kind of like manufacture pressure on the rim off the ball, which has been a big part of his, like, spacing alongside his Steph. And so I think, like, I think the, the part that is. You mentioned it is pressure to the rim. And that's really the key, his superstar trait offensively that he's bringing and it's coming through all these different things as a read and react player, ceiling posting, ISOs, all that kind of stuff. He applies real consistent night to night rim pressure next to Steph, and that is unlocking a lot of that offensive upside.
- [12:50]
Sam
Yeah.
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Jeff C
And.
- [12:50]
Sam
And to your point on, on the iq, the game that also sticks in my mind from a defensive standpoint is the one against the Milwaukee Bucks. Well, it's called a week ago now. Steph sat that game. You know, they just lost to the Jokic Less Nuggets. Just an all around bad loss. Like you shouldn't lose those games at home. Right. And then so then they go play Milwaukee and they sit Steph because he's kind of banged up. And so, you know, you think it's gonna be a loss and it's the opposite. And that was probably Draymond Green's like, best defensive game of the year. He took Giannis completely out of it. And the first thing Draymond said in post game is it's easier for me to do that and ignore help obligations when I have someone like Jimmy who, you know, can just say, I got you. I'll take care of that. You just, you meet him at half court, you take them one on one, that sort of defensive stuff. And that's something they've been missing for literally since they had, you know, Andre Godall or Andrew Bogut. And just like this, you know, kind of embarrassment of riches in terms of like high IQ defenders, they finally have someone who can organize them and get them going in addition to Draymond. And so, yeah, to your point, like, he does fit exactly what the warriors need and fits exactly perfectly next to Steph and Draymond on both sides of the ball. Honestly. Now, it puts a lot of pressure on the other pieces around them because I like the way that three man construct works. But I'm also not naive to the fact that there are certain weaknesses that need to be masked by younger legs, by shooting, by defense, some. Some other things there. And that's kind of really where my focus in the Warrior season is for the rest of the way.
- [14:31]
Microsoft Representative
Yeah, you know, we're going to talk about that concept in a minute, but, like, there's a certain amount of this with the warriors that is theoretical. But what to me is not theoretical is Steph, Jimmy and Draymond. Like, I know what I'm going to get out of the three of them in the playoff context. It feels like a. Like a known commodity to me. You know, I remember when you're talking about the defense, the. I remember a lot of that hesitancy surrounding this deal with Andrew Wiggins. And part of the reason why was, like, when they won the title, it was Andrew Wiggins who was picking up Luca full court and applying all that ball pressure. It was Andrew Wiggins who was picking up Jason Tatum full court and playing him into the tough series that he had in the NBA Finals. And like, I think there was a certain amount of, like, Jimmy's not going to be as good as Andrew at just guarding the other team's best player every night. But I think there's two elements to that that have kind of allowed it to work anyway. One, Moody's been more ready for that than I think people realized. Like, you talked about this a lot in the time leading up to the trade, and you were spot on on this. And like, again, like, there's a. There was a lot of negativity surrounding the Jimmy trade leading up to it, and you were consistent. He's Jimmy Butler. Just go get him and we figure out the rest later. And one of the things that you kept talking about at the time was we need to clarify the rotation. And it has, in a lot of ways, clarified the rotation because Moses Moody has stepped into that role, and it's been consistent. He hasn't had to worry about getting his minutes janked with. He's had this role every single night. He's taking that specific responsibility. And where Jimmy is better than Andrew Wiggins on the defensive end of the floor is playmaking. Just all of these, like, little things as, like, peeling off and gambling and like making plays in passing lanes where he's a little bit more of an instinctual defensive playmaker than Andrew Wiggins. And the bottom line is statistically the defense has been better. They've been the second best defense in the league over a 21 game span. Now that's a fourth of the season and so I think that's relatively undeniable at this point. I want to talk about these role players though, for a minute because I agree with you. Like we, when we know what Steph, Jimmy and Draymond are, let's start really quickly before we get into like Kaminga, are you happy and confident in pods and Moody as the two other guys.
- [16:49]
Sam
In that lineup throw in GP2 as well? Yeah, it's look, they were, they were not particularly good against Miami and to a lesser degree Atlanta in these stepless games, but in general they have kind of fit the bill when we've had Steph, Jimmy and Draymond operational, where they have a scaled down role where their responsibility is really just to, you know, in Moody's case, pure 3 and D player, right? You're guarding the ball. He's had some excellent games against like Jalen Brunson, for example, who could be a very tough cover and kind of, you know, your quintessential like, oh, if you can't guard the ball, he's going to dice you up, right? Like that type of guy. And then ability to hit shots because they're young players, they're a little inconsistent as well at that. And that's, for me, one of the bigger concerns with the warriors is shot making. Outside of Steph Curry, Moses Moody is, I want to say, a 38% three point shooter on the season. The shot looks pretty, it looks like it's going in every time. But, you know, end of the day he's not Klay Thompson and very few players are, to be fair. But it's like, it is very much the young player thing where it's four for six one night, zero for six the next night. And that type of stuff in the playoffs could be really scary, particularly with how much the three point shot is, you know, important in a playoff context. And let's be honest, like how little shooting from the outside they're going to get from Draymond and Jimmy. I know Draymond's been a better three point shooter the last year and a half, but he's probably not going to hit five threes in a game. He's probably not going to take 10 threes. Most of his threes are kind of, you know, end of shot clock, bailout, possession type of of threes. So there's a lot of pressure on Moses Moody to fill. I don't want to say the role Klay Thompson filled because that's just unrealistic. But like to fill the role that someone like a Harrison Barnes or an Andrew Wiggins did where if they're left alone in the corner, they hit it, you know, if they're left, you know, if you're, if you're sending two at the ball because you have Steph Curry, Draymond's getting downhill, then you have a man shading towards, towards Jimmy. Someone's open. Not someone who's open will be Moses Moody or Brandon Pajemski. And this applies actually even more so for pods. He just does more things than shoot the ball. They have to be able to hit those sh. So that's kind of my number one worry with them. But to your point, on the defensive side, I actually feel pretty comfortable with this team if they have a healthy version of Draymond Green and Jimmy Butler being able to get those young guys in position to succeed. And I think they're ready for the moment. Defensively.
- [19:26]
Microsoft Representative
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- [20:26]
AT&T Representative
A new guarantee because most things in life are not guaranteed. Like actually getting the rental car you requested or your wedding turning out just like you dreamed it would and someone making another pot of coffee in the break room after drinking the last drop of the last one. Yeah, don't get me started. Not guaranteed. In a world where Nothing is guaranteed, AT&T is bringing something new to the table. AT&T is introducing a guarantee with with connectivity you depend on deals you want and service you deserve or they'll make it right. So if you want to know more about the AT&T guarantee, head to att.com guarantee AT&T connecting changes everything. Terms and conditions apply. Visit att.com guaranty for details.
- [21:11]
T-Mobile Representative
You can count on T Mobile to help keep you connected from big cities to small towns on America's largest 5G network. Switch the T Mobile keep your phone and they'll pay it off up to 800 bucks per line via prepaid card. Learn more@t mobile.com heap and switch up to four lines via virtual prepaid card. Allow 15 days qualifying unlock device credit service port in 90 plus days with device and eligible carrier and timely redemption required card has no cash access and expires in six months There's a type.
- [21:47]
Narrator
Of soil in Mississippi called Yazoo clay. It's thick, burnt orange, and it's got a reputation.
- [21:54]
Sam
It's terrible, terrible dirt.
- [21:56]
Narrator
Yazoo clay eats everything, so things that get buried there tend to stay buried until they're not in 2012, construction crews at Mississippi's biggest hospital made a shocking discovery.
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Sam
7,000 bodies out there or more, all.
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Narrator
Former patients of the old state asylum, and nobody knew they were there.
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Microsoft Representative
It was my family's mystery.
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Narrator
But in this corner of the south, it's not just the soil that keeps secrets.
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Microsoft Representative
Nobody talks about it.
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Nobody has any information.
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Narrator
When you peel back the layers of Mississippi's Yazoo clay, nothing's ever as simple as you think.
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Sam
The story is much more complicated and nuanced than that.
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Narrator
I'm Larison Campbell. Listen to Under Yazu Clay on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.
- [23:03]
Microsoft Representative
If someone asks me what the biggest, biggest swing factor is for the warriors in the postseason, it's just those guys making shots. I mean, I thought the Bucks game was such a perfect example of that. They put Brook Lopez on Gary Payton down the stretch, and he just sits his ass right underneath the basket. And they're gapping off of pods, and the two of them, pods on the right wing and Gary on the left wing, get two just completely uncontested threes in crunch time. They make them both and it ends up being a big part of how they win. And like, there's a certain amount of, like, to your point, like, even though Andre Guadala never had the reputation of being like this knockdown shooter, it always felt like he made the big ones that he needed to make in that corner.
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Sam
If it's a big game, it was going in.
- [23:43]
Microsoft Representative
Yeah, dude. And so like, there's a certain amount of, like, draymond was kind of like the one guy on the floor that you kind of had the ability to really help off of and feel like you were confident that he was going to miss more often than he made. And it just like you start to add that to two guys on the floor, maybe a third guy on the floor, that's where it can get a little tricky. And so I do think that that's the, the weakness there. That said, I think you could make that same argument for some other teams around the league. I like really. I think the only team you, the only time I feel confident is just going to make shots if they're open is Boston. Like they're going to make shots? Yeah, if they're open. But like I, I could see, I see Oklahoma City potentially losing a playoff series, missing threes. I see with like mediocre shooters getting left open. I see Denver potentially losing a series with the, the mediocre players hitting threes. The Lakers are another team that can put together groups with Dorian, Finney, Smith and Rui where all five guys are shooters. But even then it's like Austin Reeves is not the best catch and shoot guy in the world. Like there's a version of it where he can go cold. And I. So I, I think there's a certain amount of it where it's like, I think we can't overlook the fact that they're going to be a great defense that gets out in transition and that has Steph Curry and that yes, these guys are going to have to knock down shots, but that's not necessarily a death sentence, if that makes sense now as we go deeper the bench. The Jonathan Kaminga experience, I think has been uneven. I thought he was really good in his first game back. What was that? Sacramento, if I remember correctly.
- [25:15]
Sam
Correct.
- [25:15]
Microsoft Representative
I think it was, I think he was really good in that game where everything was with an advantage. Everything was towards the rim, everything was geared towards like playing in the flow. But one of the big difference differences, like when you sent me the numbers this morning with him and versus G. Santos. To me, like, Jonathan Kaminga has the ability to make certain reads, particularly as a cutter. When he sees like a lane open up, he'll run to the front of the rim. And I think there is some value in that as a play finisher, but every other type of read and react situation on the court he sorely lacks behind his teammates. And I think like there's a certain like lack of ceiling with a guy like G. Santos, but there's a certain predictability As a catch and shoot guy and as a guy who crashes the offensive glass every time and as a guy who makes decisions in. In read and react situations. And so, like, ultimately, I think there's a version of this where Jonathan Kaminga's role could shrink considerably when they get into the postseason. How have you felt about their early returns with Kaminga alongside Jimmy and the crew and how he fits both in the short and long term?
- [26:24]
Sam
I mean, and so two different questions. In the long term, I'm more bullish on him figuring it out. And he does do one specific thing that this older iteration of the warriors really needs, which is he gets to the rim and he's hyper athletic. Look, they're an older team. Any. Any young player who can play above the rim and can beat their man with their first step is welcome on this team. In theory, he should also be a hyperactive defender that has not necessarily shown up, but we've seen tons of young wings with his physical profile who look lost defensively. And then around year five or six, it just clicks. Andrew Wiggins, probably the most obvious example, he went from being kind of, you know, having a terrible reputation defensively in Minnesota to almost making, you know, an all NBA defensive teams, right? So it happens all the time on that end. You can't discount the physical tools. Now, in the short term, I'm far less optimistic because to Your point, we're 10 games away from the playoffs and, you know, they don't have 50 games for them to figure it out. And the thing that pops to me when I watch him is he wants to occupy all the same spots on the floor that Jimmy Butler is, but Jimmy's better at him at everything, and so he hasn't figured out how to adapt to that. And because he's a young player, and to your point, I don't want to say feel is lacking, but he's just far less mature mentally in terms of reading the game than the other guys on the team. You know, probably the biggest advantage the warriors have going into a playoff series is Steph. Jimmy and Draymond will be a step ahead of almost every one of their opponents. Those are three of the five to seven smartest players in the NBA. What they lack in foot speed, they make up for in mental processing speed. So it means the other two guys have to know how to play off of that. And Kuminga combination of both being young and maybe not as developed as the warriors would have liked him to be in year four. And let's just be realistic, he missed Two plus months with an injury and he's trying to get integrated into a brand new team. That puts him in a really rough position. Particularly since he's not a shooter. You can't plug him in to Moses Moody's role where, you know, Moses Moody offensively is essentially just going to be, you know, standing in the corner. Most actions are finding him camping out in the weak side corner that if they help off of him, he gets a wide open three. That's not going to work for Kuminga. So to your point, if he can read the game at the speed the warriors like to play, you can actually take advantage of as a cutter, take advantage of the athleticism, the ball movement stuff we've seen warriors teams do for a decade, right, where you're just like, how does honestly gp2 master of this, right? He can't really shoot the ball. I know shooting the ball well now, but nobody guards him like he's a shooter. But he knows exactly how to play off of Stefan Draymond. And he always seems to find himself cutting baseline for a wide open layup or dunk. In theory, that's how Kuminga can thrive with this team. It just hasn't come to fruition. And I mean, maybe I'm a pessimist about it, but like 10 games, and these are not games that they can just give him space either. They're like a half game out of being in the play in. So they need to treat every game like it's a real game. Which leads to scenarios like the Atlanta game where he was playing poorly and he did not play more than four minutes in the second half. How's he going to figure it out if he only plays four minutes in the second half? But at the same time, the warriors have to win games. So he's just. I don't see how this solves itself in the short term.
- [29:56]
Microsoft Representative
I'm so glad you brought up how much this sucks for Jonathan, because it really does. You know, there was so much pessimism surrounding whether or not a deal would actually get made at all in like late January that it turned into a situation where it almost looked like, oh, it's Jonathan's time now. Like, this is about to go the other direction and this is going to go towards. We're leaning towards the future. Here are the keys, Jonathan. You're going to get to do your thing for extended stretches of the game, have a long leash, get to make mistakes. And it radically flipped to now you're coming back. There's no way you Have a starting spot. The only version of this where you contribute to the team is where you become this read and react player. And like, I think, you know, I think you have to be good at one of two things to be a good offensive player around Steph, Jimmy and Draymond. You either have to be an excellent shooter or an excellent read and react player, and he's neither. And that just puts him into a really tough position, accentuating his game. Because to your point about occupying all the same spots on the floor, your value as a basketball player is unique to your team. It has nothing to do with what your talents are in a vacuum. It's all theoretical in a vacuum on your team. It's what you can do within that group. And there's no version of this where he's going to be playing in the playoffs with neither of Jimmy or Steph on the floor, meaning the game is going to have to be predicated with him playing off of those guys. And it's just going to be like again, when Jimmy has had success offensively without Steph, it's been this whirling dervish of, of, of these read and react guys, relocating, cutting, screening, slipping all this kind of stuff around him. And that part has worked, but it's just not going to work that way. Like in the postseason context, when Jonathan Kaminga is out there, he's not going to be able to have the same kinds of opportunities he did before the deadline. And so it's just difficult. And honestly, I do feel bad for him. And like, I, I do wonder what this does look like in the big picture, because Steph talked about it the other day. It seems to me like there's been an organizational commitment that they're trying this next year too, right? So it seems like this is a two year window. Like, we're going for it, we're going to try to make this happen. And like you, you talk about 10 games. I don't necessarily see a version of this where he blossoms into that player next year either. And so I think this could be a challenging stretch for Jonathan in his career. And I'm, I'm really curious just to see how he adapts to it, because before the deadline, he had leverage in the sense that he could go to the media and be like, what the hell are we doing here? Like, right, we're not very good. Why am I not getting an opportunity to show what I can do? Like, what's the deal? Whereas, like, there is this clear, obvious championship ceiling with the warriors now, and Jonathan has To find a way to kind of conform into that and it's just difficult.
- [32:40]
Sam
Yeah. I mean he's kind of, it's tough break. I don't know what else to say. Like the pre trade deadline Warriors. I love, I love how you pointed out Jimmy Butler's defensive playmaking. I would say the number one thing they lacked on both ends of the floor was playmaking pre trade. And Jimmy addresses both those things.
- [32:57]
Microsoft Representative
Now.
- [32:57]
Sam
He's not a perfect player, you know, like the perfect addition would have been Giannis. He also addresses both those things. Both considerably higher ceiling. Right. So. But he, you know, now that he takes care of your wing playmaker, a guy who you can run a pick and roll for, an ISO operate out of the post, those were all the best places that Kumingo was starting to find success. I don't even say he's found total successor. That's what he was starting to develop. And he's just, he's not equipped at this point to be Harrison Barnes or Andrew Wiggins, who is who they need. Like in a perfect world, if he was ready to be the 2015 Harrison Barnes who could hit open shots and knew how to play off of staff, Iguodala, Draymond Clay or Andrew Wiggins who's proven he could do that. And in many ways that is his ideal role. I think he would be starting games and I know he would be closing games as that third front court player. But the shot's not there. He's also just a hesitant shooter. He's not three point shooter. That's not really his game. And, and you know, he's not there defensively either. He's just kind of in a rough spot. It's easier to play G. Santos because G. Santos is those things. Even if it's, you know, with a.
- [34:10]
Microsoft Representative
Lower ceiling, the hesitance is almost like worse than the actual not making of the shot because like defenses prey on that with short closeouts and they, they just bait on the fact that you, we don't even think you're going to take it like let alone, let alone knock it down. But I mean, you know, I talked earlier about like the runways that he operates on, like these gaps that appear around the rim where he'll just jet to the front of the rim. And the truth of the matter is, is as the defenses get better, those runways just don't appear very often. And it becomes about playing in tight space and it becomes about making those decisions and split second processing speed and all that kind of stuff. And it's Just, it's just tough. Let's get Zoom out a little bit more.
- [34:46]
Sam
Okay.
- [34:47]
Microsoft Representative
So 16 and four with Jimmy. We know that there have been a handful of impressive wins in there, but that they've played a relatively light schedule. Sure. As we go down the stretch of the season, they do have some big games. Like I know they have one against the Lakers. I do, I think. Do they want more against the Thunder? I think they played. I think they played.
- [35:07]
Sam
They do not play the Thunder again. That they do have Denver at least one more time. And I think they get Houston again too, don't they? They might, yeah. I feel like they've played Houston. They do actually. You're right. It's one of their last games. I swear they played Houston four times this year. It felt like they played Houston well with the insurance. Three times in one month. Yeah. Yeah, there you go. They also have the Clippers at the end of the season, last game of the season. There's a very realistic chance that will literally decide, you know, the seven seed. Six, six, seven, whatever it may be. So yeah, they have a. You know what, what sucks about this step injury is Atlanta and Miami looked like easy wins with Steph Curry and they dropped both of those. Like this road trip really should have been where they picked up the easy wins. You got a Pelicans tonight. You got the spurs, you got a reeling Grizzlies team. These are theoretically all very winnable games for the warriors before they get into a tougher stretch of Lakers, Nuggets, Rockets, Sons who have life again and Clippers and those type of teams.
- [36:09]
Microsoft Representative
Yeah, and like the, the Suns Clippers games are going to be the tougher ones because just having root, I mean we're familiar with rooting for playing team Sam. We've done it over the course of the last few years.
- [36:18]
Sam
Nobody knows the plan better than you and me.
- [36:21]
Microsoft Representative
We, we like know that like those games against the higher leverage teams, who the hell knows who's going to play in those games or the level of intensity and like it could end up being that those Suns Clippers, the other play in type of teams are the ones that end up giving the tougher fights. But the point is the bottom line is we're not going to get to see this team play a good amount of, you know, high leverage basketball before they're actually in the high leverage basketball. And so there's a certain amount of this that is theoretical just with what this team can or cannot do. So given that we're going to take that and set it to the side that we all agree that a certain amount of this is conjecture. And I mean, I. Here's the thing. It's conjecture for every team in the league, but just a little bit more so for the warriors because of the, the, the, the stuff that's gone down with the schedule and with Steph's injury. So with the amount of information that you have, how are you feeling right now in terms of your level of optimism for this team in a potential playoff run?
- [37:20]
Sam
Barely optimistic somewhere. I feel like they have a puncher's chance to get out of the West. I did not feel like they had a realistic chance to do anything the last two years. So they, you know, are they the odds on favorite? No. Do I think the Vegas odds which has them somewhere like third or fourth most likely come out of the west is accurate? Yeah, I think they really could. I actually think the 20 or so games they've played with Jimmy are indicative of the type of team they are. They have the best defense in that span. I'm not going to say they have the best defense in the league, but I do think they have a top five defense with Jimmy Butler, and I think that will translate in the playoffs. And they've been the ninth best offense. I would actually say that's probably even a little on the high side. I think they're somewhere around the 10th to 12th best offense in the league. And so that's the kind of team you're talking about here. I think they can defend. They can keep themselves in most every matchup in the playoffs. And it really comes down to do they get enough shot making around Steph Curry. They've been. They get a bunch of open threes for Moses Moody, for Brandon Pajemski, for Gary Payton ii, who looks reborn, by the way, just overall as a player. He looks like he did during the title run, both defensively and offensively. For Kuminga, you know he's going to get. If he, if, if the shot comes around in the next month, like they will give him wide open shots because the way that they guard the warriors. And so, yeah, my question is, do they have enough shot making? And then if the shot making does not come around the size question, because they're going to play small, they play well small. But like Moses Moody at power forward is very small. You know what I'm saying? Like they're playing Jimmy and Draymond and Moses Moody and Brandon Pajemski and Steph Curry. That's their best lineup right now. That's significantly smaller than their famous death lineups. Their death lineup was small because Draymond's too small to play center. But if you just accept that he's an anomaly of a human, they actually were not small. They had six, seven guys with seven plus foot wingspans all across the perimeter. In some ways, it's like the makeup that the Lakers have, where you're like, okay, there's no real center here, but I would not call them a small team. They're large across the perimeter. It's just a question if they can piecemeal the center position. And so, you know, like, Denver. Denver is going to be a rough matchup for them because Aaron Gordon's huge for a wing, and he kind of takes away that wing advantage that they have. And then Jokic is Jokic. Right. Like, those are my question marks for them. But, like, on the flip side, as great as OKC is now, the size isn't really as big of an issue. OKC plays the same size guys, obviously, they're excellent. They had the record. Says it. So I don't know. I think they have a real. They have a realistic chance. They do have exploitable flaws, but I think that's true of every team in the West. It's a very. It's a very good Western Conference. I'm not sure there's a great team in this conference.
- [40:18]
Microsoft Representative
Yeah.
- [40:19]
Sam
Or.
- [40:19]
Microsoft Representative
They're all great teams. That's the, like, relative. Like, that's the other thing, too, is like, you know, I was looking at it too, like. Like Oklahoma City might get Minnesota in the first round. What a shit end of stick for going 60 and 12 to start the season. I was like, such a huge pain in the ass.
- [40:35]
Sam
The.
- [40:35]
Microsoft Representative
Yeah, I love the part. The point you made about the size because, like, like, just basically Andre Iguodala is a bigger and more imposing athlete than either of Jimmy Butler and Moses Moody. Just to give you an idea of, like, the difference in the physical profile of those teams. Like, add Kevin Durant to the picture. It's an entirely different stratosphere of athletes.
- [40:52]
Sam
Play is the same size as Jimmy Butler. Clay played the two. Jimmy's kind of the four. You know, like, that's what you need to know right there. They were. They were big across the perimeter. And then Draymond's just kind of, you know, it's once in a generation, six, six. Who could play a center.
- [41:05]
Microsoft Representative
Dude, I. It. The. The. This ultimately is why I view them as a legitimate puncher's chance threat. First of all, I like phase one. Don't overthink it. It's Jimmy, it's Steph, it's Draymond. Put them in a playoff series. You mentioned the processing speed, even just the experience, the confidence, the level of comfortability they're going to experience in those environments. You mentioned the defense to me, like. Like, to me, the Lakers. The Lakers were the number one defense in the league for a few months, and they are a good defense. But with Luka, I look at them at their best as somewhere in that 6 to 10 range as a defense. Like, I don't actually think they have the level of imposition athletically that they can cause problems for teams at the level of a top five defense. I think Golden State does have that level of defense. That level of defense, to your point, will keep you in every game. And if you're in every game, there's a certain amount of, like, if this guy makes a couple shots, we end up winning it, you know, and as long as they generate enough quality ones, they've got a good chance. I'm glad you brought up the size. Ironically, I'm actually more worried. Like, I think Denver and the Lakers present different issues for Golden State with size, the Lakers with their just massive forwards that are just going to be picking on smalls all over the place in Denver with the Jokic problem. But I could also flip that around and I can go. One of the most impressive teams against OKC in Boston this year has been Golden State. They've looked good at times in those matchups and have caused them real problems before Jimmy Butler came to town. And so when I look at it like a big part of their punchers, chance is like, to me, they match up well with the top teams in the league. And there's a certain amount of this. Like, with matchups, they might not have to face both Denver and la. They might not have to face either of them. If things go a certain way, you don't know how this could end up shaking out. Like, they could end up catching a huge dream.
- [42:58]
Sam
A dream scenario for the warriors would be Lakers and Denver getting stuck together, round one. Just so it's right off the bat one of them are eliminated.
- [43:05]
Microsoft Representative
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And that. That's the wild card with the Western Conference. That's always so difficult to factor in. But like you mentioned, like, like, to me, all the teams have flaws. I think we can all agree that the Thunder and the Celtics are a level above to a certain extent. I think it's a level above than some other people think. Like, I've. I Talked to people who think, and I'm sure you do, too, that. That think, ok, Oklahoma City is just a runaway Western Conference favorite. I don't see it that way. I view them as a slight Western Conference favorite. I think that when you've got a rotation full of dudes who are 26 and younger, they're going to win a ton of games. Like, especially when they're talented because they're just so young and so, you know, indomitable as athletes in the regular season.
- [43:43]
Sam
They don't come out looking tired on the third game in four nights the way the warriors or Lakers might.
- [43:47]
Microsoft Representative
Exactly. And by the way, even the Celtics have a certain amount of, like, age and fatigue in their. In their rotation that I think that. That I think factors in. But. But ultimately, ultimately, all of these teams have exploitable flaws. All of them, to me, are beatable. And so, like, that's why I don't think it makes a ton of sense to hyper focus on any team's flaw, whether it's the Lakers in their center or if it's Denver in their lack of defense or it's Golden State and their lack of shot making. It just. I think. I think all of these teams have a certain amount of flaws. So. Okay, we have a couple more minutes. Really quickly, what does this summer look like? Let's just say, because I think there's a version of this where they get their ass kicked in the first round where it could be a little bit more complicated, but let's say that they make a run to at least the second or third round and they put up a really good fight and they end up losing. What does this summer look like for the warriors, in your opinion?
- [44:37]
Sam
I mean, the first decision is Jonathan Kuminga, and then it's dominoes from there. I think if you are committed to Steph, Jimmy and Draymond, you have to use the summer to optimize the roster around their strengths and weaknesses. They kind of put this together on the fly. We've learned some things this season, like, we've learned. Like, this is exactly what they needed to turn Moses Moody into a real rotation player. You know, Brandon Pajemski looks really good next to him. He's probably back next year. Kuminga. I could see them coming away from the playoffs being like, he started figuring it out towards the end of it, and we really need his legs because Jimmy's going to miss 20 games, Steph's going to miss 20 games, and it's just going to be nice to have someone who can carry the load in November, December. Those times I could also see them being like, you know what? It's not happening. Let's see what sign and trade possibilities are out there. So I think it's all on the table right now. I think if you were to talk to them off the record, they would probably say the same thing. Their best case scenarios, Kuminga figures it out because it's one less complication. It's always easier to just keep someone in house than have to go out there and try to make a deal. So I think that's. I think that's the first thing we have to figure out from there. It's scaling the market for players who are probably under 30 because you have an older core looking for more shot making, looking for more front court shot making. Specifically quit and post has been an amazing find for them. I don't know how much he's going to play in the playoffs just because young big, who doesn't really profile as a defender anyway. Yeah, hard to play those guys in the playoff. Finding another piece like that. I think that's where they go. There is also the, you know, insane scenario where a supermax player becomes available and they trade Jimmy because now they have the contract to match it. I do not think that'll happen, but I do think they would do it if they could get Giannis.
- [46:34]
Microsoft Representative
So, yeah, Giannis is the wild card that I could see him coming available this year.
- [46:41]
Sam
I'm just not betting on anything like that happening because it's so unlikely. But hey, I didn't have Luka Doncic getting moved at the dead of night on February 1st happening either. So I cannot rule anything out anymore.
- [46:53]
Microsoft Representative
Yeah, one of the rare examples in NBA. Well, in anything where the conspiracy theories make more sense than the reality of what happened. The. Exactly. This is my last question for you. Mid level exception this summer. Under the circumstances that we laid out, would you rather have a big that. Let's call it a versatile big that can. That does something really well, whether it's shoot the ball or protect the rim super well, something like that. Like, let's just say like. Let's just take like a Miles Turner for example. Let's say like a guy like Miles Turner was available for the mla, which by the way, he might not be, he probably won't be. Or a shot creating like a perimeter ball handler type. What do you think is more important?
- [47:37]
Sam
Give me a guy with positional size who can drain threes. Because I do agree with you, the warriors have for years kind of like turn their nose up at like the sixth man bucket getter type. And I think on the net aggregate they're right. Those guys tend to be overvalued and overpaid. But games where Steph doesn't play, you're like, man, it'd be really nice to have a. It'd be really nice to have like a, you know, like a Lou Williams or someone like that, that type of player. Right. I do think it's more realistic for them to find like a Shake Milton or someone like that on a veteran minimum than an MLE. Whereas MLE, I'm shooting for someone who's in my 8 man playoff rotation, not someone who's spelling Steph's leg. So he plays 65 games a year. In a perfect world, you get both.
- [48:26]
Microsoft Representative
But yeah, I think, I think the way you laid it out is perfect. I think ultimately if you're spending, you know, $12 million on a player, it needs to be someone that's in your playoff rotation.
- [48:36]
Sam
Was a perfect exam. I was gonna say, like D. Anthony Melton was a perfect example of that because, you know, great defender and he can hit open shots, but, you know, didn't happen.
- [48:45]
Microsoft Representative
Dude. Do you think it'd be interesting to see if he came back at some point? Because I think he was a really good fit during the short bit that we got to see him. Sam, this is all we have time for today. I sincerely appreciate you joining us. It's been awesome to hear your close perspective on the team. Will you just shout out light years, tell everybody where they can find your stuff?
- [49:07]
Sam
Yeah, pretty simple search light years any place you get a podcast, Apple, Spotify, YouTube, whatever it is. We are live after basically every game. Additional content outside of those post game shows. Just check us out there and subscribe.
- [49:20]
Microsoft Representative
It was good to see you, man. I'm looking forward to next time. Thank you all for supporting us and for supporting the show. I hope all of you guys have an incredible weekend and we will see you on Monday. What's up guys? As always, I appreciate you for listening to and supporting hoops tonight. It would actually be really helpful for us if you guys would take a second and leave a rating and a review. As always, I appreciate you guys supporting us, but if you could take a minute to do that, I'd really appreciate it. AI is redefining what's possible for your business. With more unique challenges to solve and higher stakes than ever. Microsoft helps you stay ahead. Our trustworthy AI tools and guidance can empower leaders like you to drive greater impact. And with Azure's simplified platform management, we're helping businesses go further and faster by unlocking up to 150% improved output. Whatever challenges come next, let Microsoft help you keep pushing forward. For more details, visit Microsoft.com challengers@&t has.
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AT&T Representative
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- [50:49]
Nikki Glaser
This is Nikki Glaser from the Nikki Glaser Podcast. Have you guys seen this new commercial from Stand up to All Hate? It's basically Snoop Dogg and Tom Brady going back and forth with reasons that they hate each other. But then when you really listen to them, the reasons for the hate are just so stupid. I don't know. This this commercial really got me. It's a strong reminder that hate in our country continues to be out of control. So join us at iHeart in standing up to it. If you see hate, speak up. Call it out. Your voice is a powerful tool in this fight. You can learn more by following OTs.
- [51:19]
Narrator
Upwithhate in Mississippi, Yazoo Clay keeps secrets.
- [51:25]
Microsoft Representative
7000 bodies out there or more.
- [51:29]
Narrator
A forgotten asylum cemetery.
- [51:31]
Microsoft Representative
It was my family's mystery.
- [51:33]
Narrator
Shame, guilt, propriety. Something keeps it all buried deep until it's not. I'm Larison Campbell and this is under Yazoo Clay. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.