Hoops Tonight - Warriors Deep Dive: Jonathan Kuminga situation, Al Horford's impact, will Steph & Jimmy win title?

Summary

Summary of "Hoops Tonight - Warriors Deep Dive: Jonathan Kuminga Situation, Al Horford's Impact, Will Steph & Jimmy Win Title?"

Release Date: July 26, 2025 | Host: Colin Cowherd | Guest: Sam Esfandiari | Podcast: The Herd with Colin Cowherd

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Introduction

In this episode of The Herd with Colin Cowherd, hosted by Colin Cowherd in collaboration with Sam Esfandiari from the Light Years podcast, the focus is squarely on the Golden State Warriors. The discussion delves deep into the team's offseason inactivity, the intricacies surrounding Jonathan Kuminga's contract, the prospective impact of Al Horford, and evaluates whether the star duo of Steph Curry and Jimmy Butler can steer the team to an NBA championship.

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1. Warriors' Offseason Inactivity

The episode opens with Colin Cowherd addressing the Warriors' apparent lack of significant moves during the offseason. Fans have expressed frustration on social media, highlighted by numerous memes featuring chairs symbolizing inaction.

Colin Cowherd [02:55]:
"We are in the chair right now. That is what's going on in Warriors land. I mean, on the plus side, they're not going to get nominated for worst move of the offseason. Can't be nominated for worst move if you haven't done anything yet."

Cowherd oscillates between frustration over the team's passivity and rationalizing it as a new approach influenced by the recent Collective Bargaining Agreement (CBA), suggesting a shift towards a model akin to baseball’s free agency period.

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2. Jonathan Kuminga's Contract Conundrum

A central theme of the discussion revolves around Jonathan Kuminga’s contract situation, which has left the Warriors in a state of uncertainty regarding roster and salary cap management.

Sam Esfandiari [06:11]:
"Kuminga sees himself as a player who can be an All-Star in this league and he wants to be treated and paid like one."

Cowherd explains that the Warriors' hesitance to sign other players stems from unknowns about Kuminga's contract numbers, which could inadvertently trigger a hard cap if not managed correctly under the CBA rules.

Colin Cowherd [06:11]:
"They might have handshake agreements, but if they sign them first, it could trigger a situation where they would actually hard cap themselves."

The debate highlights Kuminga’s desire for a lucrative contract based on his perceived value versus the Warriors' market evaluation that places his worth lower, leading to prolonged contract negotiations.

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3. Al Horford's Potential Impact

Introducing Al Horford into the Warriors' roster is discussed as a strategic move to enhance both defensive versatility and team depth.

Colin Cowherd [30:38]:
"He's tailor-made for that [Warriors' play style]."

Sam Esfandiari emphasizes Horford's defensive IQ and switchability, which align seamlessly with the Warriors’ dynamic on-court strategies.

Sam Esfandiari [30:00]:
"Al Horford is everything you guys have been looking for over the last several seasons as a big."

The addition of Horford is seen as a move to maintain defensive strength while managing the minutes of veteran players like Draymond Green, thereby preserving their effectiveness throughout the grueling season.

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4. Assessing Team Roster Depth and Future Prospects

A significant part of the conversation centers on the Warriors' roster depth, especially given the aging core of Steph Curry and Draymond Green. The need for a deeper bench to sustain performance over an 82-game season is a critical point.

Colin Cowherd [34:20]:
"They just need to get deeper... having a 10-man rotation."

Discussions highlight potential trade targets such as Devin Carter and Keon Ellis, players who could provide the defensive versatility and shooting prowess necessary to complement the existing stars.

Sam Esfandiari [25:38]:
"Every team needs someone who can grind and will defend, to help manage the load on Steph and Jimmy."

The importance of balancing veteran leadership with youthful energy is underscored as essential for navigating the season's demands and minimizing injury risks.

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5. The Star Duo: Steph Curry and Jimmy Butler's Championship Hopes

The episode delves into whether the combination of Steph Curry and Jimmy Butler, along with the supporting cast, can lead the Warriors to an NBA title amidst the outlined challenges.

Colin Cowherd [35:50]:
"They need more shooting and defensive versatility... to manage the load."

Esfandiari points out that while Curry remains a dynamic offensive force, the team's success hinges on supporting him with reliable shooters and defensively-minded players who can maintain team performance when he's not on the floor.

Sam Esfandiari [46:52]:
"Adding a reliable shooter alongside Curry and Butler could provide the necessary offensive boost without compromising on defense."

The synergy between Curry and Butler is seen as a potential catalyst for championship contention, provided the team can address depth and defensive needs.

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6. Potential Trade Strategies and Future Moves

The discussion also explores possible trade strategies, including retaining Kuminga on a short-term deal or engaging in a sign-and-trade scenario to manage the roster and salary cap effectively.

Sam Esfandiari [42:34]:
"If you could be flexible in that regard, it makes some sense."

Cowherd expresses caution about the risks involved in these maneuvers but remains hopeful that strategic trades could yield valuable assets or players that fit the Warriors' system.

Colin Cowherd [40:28]:
"There's a lot of risk of it blowing up and being an even bigger hindrance the other way."

The importance of timing and financial prudence in executing these trades is emphasized as critical for the team's long-term success.

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Conclusion

The episode concludes with a nuanced outlook on the Warriors' prospects. While the core of Curry and Butler offers a strong foundation, the team's ability to navigate contract negotiations, enhance roster depth, and integrate key players like Al Horford will be pivotal in determining their championship viability.

Colin Cowherd [49:56]:
"Health and the ability to have a deep roster all year are crucial."

Sam Esfandiari echoes this sentiment, underscoring that strategic asset management and maintaining defensive integrity will be essential for the Warriors to ascend to the top tier of the Western Conference.

Sam Esfandiari [50:58]:
"A lot of it's down to health and your ability to just have a deep roster all year."

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Notable Quotes

• Colin Cowherd [02:55]:
  "We are in the chair right now. That is what's going on in Warriors land."

• Sam Esfandiari [06:11]:
  "Kuminga sees himself as a player who can be an All-Star in this league and he wants to be treated and paid like one."

• Colin Cowherd [30:38]:
  "He's tailor-made for that [Warriors' play style]."

• Sam Esfandiari [25:38]:
  "Every team needs someone who can grind and will defend, to help manage the load on Steph and Jimmy."

• Colin Cowherd [35:50]:
  "They need more shooting and defensive versatility... to manage the load."

• Colin Cowherd [49:56]:
  "Health and the ability to have a deep roster all year are crucial."

---

Final Thoughts

This episode offers a comprehensive analysis of the Golden State Warriors' current strategies and challenges. With insightful discussions on roster management, player contracts, and strategic acquisitions, listeners gain a deeper understanding of what it takes for a team to remain competitive in the ever-evolving landscape of the NBA. The integration of expert opinions from both Colin Cowherd and Sam Esfandiari provides a balanced perspective on the Warriors' path forward toward championship glory.

Transcript

[Colin Cowherd]

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[Sam Esfandiari]

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[Colin Cowherd]

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[Colin Cowherd]

The volume.

[Sam Esfandiari]

All right, welcome to Hoops Tonight here at the Volume. Happy Wednesday, everybody. Hope all of you guys are having a great week. We are so happy to have Sam isfandiari from the warriors for who covers the warriors with the Light Years podcast on the show today. I was doing a mailbag earlier this morning and we had a question that was asking about my favorite off season moves and my least favorite off season moves and I was going back through and there's one team conspicuously who's done a whole lot of nothing. And Sam, I've been seeing a lot of chairs on my social media feed. All of a sudden I was hoping you could kind of get me up to speed with how the warriors off season, how the Fan base is doing with this off season so far.

[Colin Cowherd]

We, we are in the chair right now. That is, that is what's going on in warriors land. I mean, on the plus side, they're not going to get nominated for worst move of the off season. Can't be nominated for worst move if you haven't done anything yet. No, it's been weird and like, I've been kind of oscillating between frustration over, like, what are they doing and then the more rational side where it's like, new cba seems like there's a lot of new behaviors that we didn't see in previous years. And trying to rationalize it, like, maybe this is the new reality of how this stuff goes. Maybe it's going to be a little more like baseball, which no one should really want to be. Like where the free agency period leads to players being unsigned until like a week before players report for spring training, or in the NBA's case, you know, training camp. Maybe that's, maybe that's the new reality. Maybe that's the paradigm shift we're moving towards. So I don't know, if nothing else, it's not what I expected.

[Sam Esfandiari]

Well, they finally make the big move, right? They go get Jimmy. And I remember you and I, you and I discussed a lot throughout the last season, like which kind of guy they would potentially go after. Would it be a Cam Johnson? Would it be a Zach Levine? I remember you and I even getting into a discussion over the pros and cons between Zach and Jimmy and like, what their fit is like. And I would argue the Jimmy fit has been a resounding success. It is unlocked a higher level of belief and motivation from Stefan Draymond and tied so many loose ends together. But if you look around the league, they still look before we go any further, they still feel to me like a second tier team in the West. Do you agree with that?

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, yeah, they only have nine players on the roster, so yeah, like by virtue of the fact that it's incomplete, I mean, if they go into the season, nine players, I don't know if they'll make it to the playoffs, to be honest with you. They might just not be healthy. But yeah, I'd agree with you. Like a lot of it depends on how they round out this roster. I think you can make a case that they have a championship level core, but because it's older, they don't just need two additional players, they need like five or six rotation players that they trust and they probably need a little bit of luck, health Wise to get into a playoff series fully healthy, which wasn't the case last year with Minnesota. And then. And then we'll see what happens. But yeah, to your point, like second tier at best right now, given that they only have nine players and two of them are two way guys from.

[Sam Esfandiari]

Last year and there is that strong foundation. Like I do believe in Jimmy Steph and Draymond as a core. You're right, they're older, which means they need more support, especially in the regular season with holding up for 82 games. But as we look around the rest of the west and we're seeing, for lack of a better way of putting it, just everyone else is making additions, right? Every, like Denver, you could argue, is better. The Lakers are better, the Clippers are better. You can. The Oklahoma City obviously is standing papa. Houston got better, everyone's getting better. And so it seems like it's more the inactivity juxtaposed with everything else than anything else at this point. Now, the main thing that I'm looking at as I look from, obviously from afar, it seems as though everything has just been in a holding pattern based on the Jonathan Kaminga situation. So what's going on with the Jonathan Kaminga situation? How do you see this story ending?

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, so I think it's important that we explain why they haven't signed other players. Because you've seen the reports. I've seen the reports. Like apparently Al Horford is a done deal and D Anthony Melton is as close to a done deal as one could be. Which leads to questions like why haven't they just signed already? Right. Until they know what Kuminga's contract number is, they do not know which exceptions they have access to and which ones they don't. So they might have handshake agreements, but if they sign them first, it could trigger a situation where they would actually hard cap themselves. And then another team could come in and offer Kuminga a number that's legitimately too high to for them to match. Gotta love the new cba. Turns us all into lawyers. Right? So that's kind of what's going on with that situation. But to the bigger question, which is what you're asking. Holding pattern. I don't know if it's bad advice. I don't know if it's him having unrealistic expectations for his market. But the reality is he sees himself as a player who can be an all star in this league and he wants to be treated and paid like one. Like the. The player I always think of is Jalen Green. They were teammates on that G League ignite team. From Kuminga's perspective, you know, he saw Jalen Green go to Houston and get three years of, you know, 35 minutes a game. Figure it out. You know, he got to screw up along the way, and then at the end of it, he got 35 million a year. And that's kind of been the number that's been floated out there. Kuminga wants over 30. I'm assuming that's the player he's benchmarking himself to and the warriors, by virtue of the market and really using comps of players similar to him, it seems like the market says he's worth more like 20. And so that's kind of where we're sitting here. And I don't really know what's going to force a move here. Like, I don't. I don't know what's going to force something because it doesn't seem like there's going to be this secret team that comes out of nowhere and opens up cap space and throws this, you know, 30 million a year offer sheet at him. And it doesn't seem like there's these teams out there who are also willing to give it to him and then negotiate a trade that satisfies the warriors needs. Because the warriors want to get back a player who they can use in their rotation and an asset for him. Now, who knows what the actual settling price is, but, like, all those variables are leading to what, honestly, like, feels like it's going to go another couple of weeks at minimum at this point.

[Sam Esfandiari]

Yeah, I want to dig into this a little bit because this is. This to me is fascinating. Before we look to the future and what this could look like in terms of retaining him or a sign in trade or anything that could happen to restricted free agency, what happened to Jonathan Kaminga is super unfortunate, and it's unfortunate for the warriors as well. It's unfortunate on both sides in the sense that you're right. Like, if, if you're looking at the Jalen Green situation, even if you could argue, and I, I would argue that Jalen's a better player than Jonathan, even though they're both in a similar tier, I think. I think Jalen's shown just a little bit more of an explosive upside as a scorer, but to your point, with a lot longer Runway, with a lot more opportunity. But even if you want to argue that they're in that same kind of, like, situation within that scope, I could see why Jonathan Kamingo would look at that and go like, what the hell, man? Like I'm stuck in this situation where I'm expected to to fit alongside this ecosystem that demands these very specific things for me. Whereas with Jalen, he was allowed to go and effectively be himself for better or for worse, and that dictated this pathway. That is very different than what happened with Jonathan. You combine it with the fact that we head into a specific summer in terms of available cap space around the league, where it's brutal for anybody to be a restricted free agent in this particular summer. And so it's just kind of like this confluence of really unfortunate events that has led to this situation. So if we could go back in time, is there a specific moment within the last few years where you think it made the most sense to trade Jonathan and that had they done it at that point, it would have been better for both of the parties? Nothing says summer like long days, clutch plays and firing off a few bets on the game. All with DraftKings sportsbooks. As the season heats up, so do the bats, and DraftKings sportsbook has you covered with live betting, home run props, odds boosts and more. Whether you're chasing dingers or jumping in mid game, there's always action to be had. Never bet on baseball before. It's easy. Pick a guy to go yard, hammer some live odds mid game, or just ride your squad and hope for the best. No spreadsheets, just vibes and dingers. My favorite guys to watch are always Aaron Judge and Shohei oh Time. Especially if you're betting on home run props. Here's something special for first timers. New DraftKings customers bet $5 and get $150 in bonus bets instantly. Download the DraftKings sportsbook app and use code HOOPS. That's H O O P S. That's code HOOPS for new customers to get $150 in bonus bets Instantly. When you bet just five bucks only on DraftKings, the crown is yours. Gambling Problem Call 1-800- Gambler in York, New Call 877-8-Hopeny or text Hopeny to 467-369 in Connecticut. Help is available for problem gambling. Call 888-78-97777 or visit ccpg.org Please play responsibly on behalf of Boot Hill Casino and Resort in Kansas. 21 plus. Age and eligibility varies by jurisdiction. Void. In Ontario, new customers only. Bonus bets expire 168 hours after issuance. For additional terms and responsible gaming resources, see DKNG Co/Audio. There's something special about folks who come through without being asked. Like your coworker surprising you with your favorite coffee just because, or your friend handing you the ox cord the moment you get in the car. No debate, no fight, just positive vibes. That kind of love. It just hits different and that's exactly the energy AT&T is on with their new guarantee. If there's ever a network interruption, AT AND T will proactively credit you for a full day of service. No calls, no emails, no jumping through hoops. It's just handled. It's like the universe saying I got you. Except this time it's not the stars aligning, it's your network. And let's be real, that connection is everything. Whether you're holding down the group chat, checking in on your parents scrolling TikTok, your network's gotta come through. And if there's a problem, AT AND T is on the case. No stress, no drama, just real backup when it counts. Credit for Fiber downtime lasting 20 minutes or more or wireless downtime lasting 60 minutes or more caused by a single incident impacting 10 or more towers. Restrictions and exclusions apply. See att.com guarantee for full details. AT and T connecting changes everything.

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[Colin Cowherd]

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[Sam Esfandiari]

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[Colin Cowherd]

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[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, I mean, to me, as time goes on, the most obvious moment was January of 2024, and that was when he got benched in a game against the Nuggets and Steve Kerr benched him because he made a couple mistakes on defense and they were trying to win a game that happened to be that game that Jokic basically hit a half court heave to win. It was like the peak of like, what can't he do right? Like, he was just, he was in like one of those moments. But the warriors were winning when Kuming was on the floor, he got taken off and just that that was a year's worth of frustration of him getting, you know, the short leash. Whereas, you know, like, obviously like Steph has his games where he turns the ball over, but he doesn't get the short leash on a turnover. You know, that sort of thing. And he leaks to, he leaks to Shams that he's losing faith in Steve Kerr, which is hilarious. He might be the worst player in NBA history to demand a trade publicly at that point in his NBA career. Like, if you just think about it, it's like, who are you to be publicly blasting your championship head coach like this? You know, it's like it's one thing if LeBron does it. It's honestly, it's like one thing if like Westbrook or like established, consistent all Stars do it. It's another thing if it's a guy who's proven nothing in the, in the context of league. To me, that was the moment where a more savvy front office would have realized this isn't going to work. This is not going to work. The, the head coach, the star players, they have very specific expectations and he just does not want to buy in the way they want to. Or maybe he can't. There's always the possibility that like, he's just too raw. Like the only way he's going to learn is giving him 3,000 minutes with no leash and they don't have the space to do it. You know, there's always that argument which is to give him what he needs to get to where they need him to get to. They would actually have to be okay with throwing a season away. And they were never okay with it. And so to me, that was the moment they should have done it, because he was right in the middle of what was probably the best play of his career in that January he went on to. I can't remember the numbers, but it was something like, you know, he scored over 20 games in a row.

[Sam Esfandiari]

Yeah, it was crazy.

[Colin Cowherd]

It was just a consistent thing where you could see the vision of what he could become as a player, right? Where it's just like no one can stay in front of him one on one. He's too quick and too strong to be guarded one on one in an open paint, you know, and so that was when Siakam got traded to Indiana. And I know there's rumors that Siakam wasn't willing to resign with the Warriors. We'll see. Every player says that until you put the money in front of them. You know, every player. Every player said, Jimmy was unwilling to go to the warriors until they said they would max him. He was unwilling to go.

[Sam Esfandiari]

And they said, how do you feel.

[Colin Cowherd]

About taking a 10 million a year pay cut or something? And he's like, no, I want to go to Phoenix. It's funny how those things change.

[Sam Esfandiari]

To me, that was the obvious point.

[Colin Cowherd]

That they should have done it. Hindsight's 2020 also, just from a realistic standpoint, middle of his third year, it would have given the team who traded for him at least a year before they had to make a contract decision. Because now the single biggest issue they're dealing with, even if they want to trade him, trading for him and guaranteeing nine figures is a different thing than trading for him when he's on a rookie deal and you have 18 months to figure out how much you really like him and how much he's foundational for your team. So for me, you know, it's easy to say they should just trade him on draft night, but to me, that was kind of the one where it's like, okay, you kept him during the draft, he didn't develop as fast as you wanted, and you didn't have the space to give him the play anyway. And now you have these public outbursts in a way that's kind of unbecoming, honestly. And honestly, the way they played it, I think only fueled him to. To kind of have an attitude and a disdain for what they were doing, because I could have seen him getting suspended for that, you know, you could have seen another organization be like, you can't do that. You know, you. You can't publicly do that. We're suspending you. But they put him in a starting lineup the next game. They essentially gave him what he wanted. So a lot of it was hoping that, you know, this will come together. I think hindsight shows us you can't. You know, human nature is what it is, and you kind of have to be a little more pragmatic and realistic in these things.

[Sam Esfandiari]

Yeah, I put down after the lakers lost in 2023, which is more or less the same trade cycle, right? Like that, that off season into the next deadline, because, like, during the tit, I was advocating for it at the time. At the time, I was thinking, like, you know, this is a way you can push your chips in. You're effectively not using these guys. They're not in your playoff rotation. Why not make some sort of move with Kaminga and Wiseman at the time to try to essentially maximize your title odds? Now, to Lake of's credit, he held off and you guys got the job done. And so at the time, he looked like a genius because he's like, now it's the two timelines thing. We have a championship team and we have these guys that could potentially develop into the next era. What he missed there was just the lightning in a bottle you guys caught with Jordan and with Andrew in that particular season where both guys went down a level the following season, and all of a sudden it looked like you needed more firepower. And that was when the move should have been made to your point was at that point in time when it was clear going into that spring of 2024, they clearly don't have the same level of juice that they had the previous season. I think that was when Andrew was dealing with all of his drama too, if I'm not mist. Like, it was right in that window in time where there was a long enough window of time after the trade for a team to evaluate Kamingo without having to pay him. Whereas now it's a completely different equation when you're talking about bringing him in with all that money. And it's like. And it's not even like a hindsight thing. I remember most of you, there is a segment of warriors fans that is extremely high on Kaminga, but most of the smart warriors fans that I talk to and the people who cover the team are in your camp, which is talented young player. There's no reason at all why he shouldn't be able to go somewhere and make good money and make mistakes, but it's just not the reality. This is the situation that they're in. And I do think there's a certain amount of arrogance organizationally.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yes.

[Sam Esfandiari]

That they thought they could fix John. And I think that's where most of.

[Colin Cowherd]

It went south or just like do what's never been able to be done, you know, which is the, the few. The fusing of like two timelines where players are in vastly different stages of their career is the issue. It's not inserting young players into a team. All good teams have to find a way to get production out of younger legs. Pretty much every title team you could find has some young player who plays some form of a role. And even if it's just an energy role, even if it's like what like Christian Braun was for, for Denver where you know it's necessary sometimes you just need a guy who's. Who's got more energy and could do things like that. They were dealing with players who just radically looked at the game differently. So the fit was just never there. And you're right, arrogance. Arrogance was the single driving force behind it. It's flying too close to the sun, thinking you can do it all. Reality has a way of humbling everyone, Right?

[Sam Esfandiari]

Yes. So if you had to choose between retaining comming on a team friendly number, let's call it a one year. You've mentioned this before we went on the air. Like what if he signs like a one year $20 million deal to re enter free agency? Would you rather have something like that? Or one of these sign and trade packages from a Phoenix or a Sacramento?

[Colin Cowherd]

I mean based on the quoted sign and trade packages, those are really hard to swallow. Although I do, I am increasingly becoming a Devin Carter fan. I will, I will say he does check boxes of the type of player they keep trying to trade for. But he's also young so who knows if he'll be able to do it. I think I'm still going to lean on the sign in trade and just put faith in the fact that they can get a little more than what we've heard quoted. I just think this is too far gone. I think him coming back on a short term deal and let's assume it's two years, his incentives are going to be about playing for himself as opposed to what the team needs. Like I just don't see how it gets better. And then you throw into it like he's human. This is not. There's no way he feels good about this. He's going to say all the right things, but there's no way he's feeling good about this. To me, it's like you, you kind of have to just cut bait and hope that what you get the best you can get and like, hopefully you can get a first round pick out of someone. I don't even know if that's possible, but if you could, then at least you have that to play with in an ancillary move. And maybe the player you end up getting for Kuminga is not the direct one for one, but it's like you get something from someone, you combined it with something you have, you move it in another direction and you bring a player who fits what you want to do more. So. But I just, I think it's too far gone. Yeah.

[Sam Esfandiari]

You know, if they brought him back, it's in the same sort of situation where you go into this last season where Kaminga was basically a matchup specific rotation piece. Like he was essentially out of your rotation for major games in major situations last year. And so if you look at it from Jonathan's perspective, even signing like a one year deal at 20 million, let's just call it that, he's sitting there thinking, the reason why I'm in this predicament is I effectively have not shown enough to the league to dictate that I'm worth what I'm asking for. So therefore, in this upcoming season, I need to show more. And what would he have seen in this situation to believe that coming back would give him the Runway he would need to show that. And so I, I agree with you. I think, I think we've been since, for lack of a better way of putting it, since that January 2024 kind of inflection point. This has been destined for this sort of separation. It just hasn't happened yet. So you mentioned Devin Carter. Is there. Do you think there's. Is there like a dream player that you wish you could squeeze out of one of those two teams in a sign and trade?

[Colin Cowherd]

I mean, my dreams keep getting smaller the longer this goes on. You asked me about the Kings two months ago. I'm like, ooh, Keegan Murray, that'd be nice. Now it's. Now it's a much smaller ask. I mean, Keon Ellis would be nice. Like the Warriors. Okay, so if we take a step backwards, Steph, Jimmy and Draymond, they're closing in every game, right? That's your. Or like when the chips are on the table and you're in the playoffs, you're planning on those three players being the best they can be in those moments. So what do you want around them? You want defensive versatility with as much shooting as you can get. Right? So I know this has been kind of a trendy thing, but, like the Thunder or a great example of this. And the warriors have tried to trade for these type of players, like Derrick White, probably being the best in the league, kind of a point of. The point of attack, defensive guard, but they also have the ability to hit an open shot, make extra pass. Basically just a guard who could defend, who's got length. The kind of the Drew Holiday, you know, archetype. Keon Ellis in Sacramento is one of the better ones that most people don't know about because he's on a team. Like, he's the type of guy who. You put him on a good team and everyone's talking about him the way they talk about Caruso. He's not as good, but the same time, it's like, wow, that guy makes so many winning plays. Wow. He took. He really took Shay, you know, out of his offense and made everything uncomfortable for him. Oh, he stuck three open threes, like that sort of thing. Right. Like, I think guys like that are harder to find than we give it credit for because people always like, well, you could just find a role player anyway. Well, clear you can't, because there are all these teams who have, like, championship foundation players, and they can never seem to find the right role players to go around them. Right. So. So that's. That's one I'd be interested in on Phoenix. I don't know, man. There isn't really anything because it's like.

[Sam Esfandiari]

It's like, oh, I want Devin.

[Colin Cowherd]

I want to. Brooks, you know, I. He is objectively a winning player who will help teams, and I think Houston's going to miss him more than they realize.

[Sam Esfandiari]

I agree.

[Colin Cowherd]

But it's like, if there's one thing a team that Draymond and Jimmy does not need, it's another guy who's doing, like, the same things they do, you know? So that's a good point. I guess I. I guess I would in terms of the asset, but it's like, yeah, no, they need. They need. They need a different type player. So, yeah, if they can get anyone who I can, I can confidently say, oh, this guy's getting 25 minutes every night. I consider it a win. And ideally, I'd like them to be under 27, because this team needs. This team needs guys with young legs. They just need guys who are going to bring the energy to those January games where Steph kind of wants to hang out off ball for 70% of the game because he. He's gonna have to do a lot of work later in the season. And Jimmy just kind of wants to play facilitator mode because of the same thing. So the more young legs, the more that fit what they want to do, the better.

[Sam Esfandiari]

Yeah, it's funny. Same thing. In the mailbag question this morning, I had a question that was like, do you think teams are markedly changing the way that they're going about their business this offseason because of the success of Oklahoma and Indiana? And it doesn't actually feel like there have been that many, you know, versatile perimeter athletes that have been moving around. And one of the things I talked about was, like, there's just not that many of them. Like, we. Everyone wants the guy that can dribble, shoot, pass and defend and do it, like, with some size, and it's just extremely difficult to find. To find in the modern NBA. And that's why, if you could get a guy like Keon, he's just the way you're talking about, with the winning plays. I feel like those kinds of guys are always amplified alongside superstars. Superstars that actually set teams up with advantages and things along those lines. I think that. I think that, in general, that that shooting piece is a big one. I look at Moses Moody, essentially. Moses was bigger than Keon, but having a player that could basically do what Moses Moody did but not go through the extended shooting lulls that Moses dealt with last year, like, the way his shot just completely fell apart in the postseason was a big. A big, you know, shot at this particular warriors team, I would argue. And this is the next thing I want to kind of get into, because I do want to talk a little bit about Horford, too, because I'm, like, really excited about him for you guys. I want to get into that in a minute.

[Colin Cowherd]

He was. He was meant to play for Steve Kerr. He's like. He's like one of five players in the NBA who's never been on the warriors, who, if I just look at them once, I'm like, oh, that's a worst player.

[Sam Esfandiari]

Yeah. Let's just. Let's just do this real quick, actually, because, like, I am. I think Al Horford is gonna, like. Like, again. It's rumored that the deal is done. We'll see if it ends up happening. Obviously, he's old. Obviously, there's going to be, you know, 30 games or so this season where he's out of the lineup. And I think you guys would be smart to, to, to kind of hold him in, in, in reserve like that. But I cannot imagine a more natural fit. As if big look for you guys in Al Horford. Are you as stoked as I am?

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah. It's like, oh, you're gonna run a bunch of DHOs with Steph Curry and you're gonna have to make decisions based off of the way players or the defense reacts off him. Like he's tailor made for that. He's, he's couldn't, to your point, could not be a more natural fit. The thing I like about him also is they miss that whenever Draymond's off the floor. You know, Quinton Post, underrated skill as a passer, he's a rookie. You know, like that sort of thing. Right. And they've gone through, they've had issues finding guys who can do it. I think one of the biggest things Al would bring to the warriors is it's not playing Draymond and Horford together. It's having 48 minutes of one of them on the floor at all times dictating things. And it's actually a way to keep them both fresher.

[Andy Liu]

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[Colin Cowherd]

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[Colin Cowherd]

Today.

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Get in the zone.

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[Colin Cowherd]

What if they're both playing 24 minutes a game? We know Draymond can still play at a high level. We saw in the Minnesota series. He got worn down. Why did he get worn down? He had to play five the whole time with an undermanned team. Like, he's one of the most energetic players I've ever seen. He is still human, you know, like, so even there are, there are, you know, limits to how much he can expend physically. And it goes to my overarching point, which is they don't just need to get younger, they just need to get deeper. Like, one of the best ways to keep the old core healthy is have a 10 man rotation. Make it so that, like I said, Draymond's playing 24 minutes a game. Horford's playing 24 minutes a game. Seth's playing 30, not 36 minutes. You know, you're going to have games you chase. You can't be. You can't be in a situation where you have to chase the final 35 games of the year. Because you had no depth in your 25 and 25, you know, 50 games in the season, which was the case with the warriors this year when they got Jimmy Butler. They're actually one game below.500. They were 25 and 26. They had to go balls to the wall just to qualify for the playoffs. And it's, it should be no surprise that Draymond looked dead at the end. Steph pulled a hammy, which was an exhaustion injury from what he had to do. And you know, Jimmy's was just an unlucky contact thing. But like all of that's a subject, all that's a factor of them playing what was essentially a seven or eight man rotation for the final two months.

[Sam Esfandiari]

Yeah, I think, I think Horford is everything you guys have been looking for over the last several seasons as a big. Like you mentioned, like a big that you can continue to run essentially the same style of read and react offense that you run when Draymond's on the floor. But that also gives you a bigger look when you want to. I'm excited specifically about like some matchup specific situations where Horford, Draymond and Jimmy are all on the floor together to close games just because of their collective defensive iq. There's a lot of switchability there. Al Horford still, even as an old guy, is one of the better switching bigs that you'll have in the league just because he's so good at anticipating and taking the right angle to meet guys at spots. And so there's a lot of like, it's a lot of like the upside that you had with Quinn and Quentin Post, but without some of like the defensive limitations that came from him. Just in terms of like, Quentin was like a straight up old fashioned drop big and he just didn't have much in the way of athleticism around the rim. Al doesn't bring the athleticism, but he brings the IQ and the switchability, which gives you some, some viability there. You mentioned the depth. This is the key thing because I was talking about this with the Clippers. Everyone's like, oh, the Clippers are so old. It doesn't matter. When you have that many guys, like when you have that many dudes who can play, you can keep everybody's minutes at a point where it's manageable. And that's like, I would argue that it's, it actually has more to do with the amount of wear and tear you're putting on your players each game than the number of games they play or, or even sometimes the Schedule like a back to back is nothing if they're playing 20 minutes each night. And it's not, you know, if you could, if you could play Al 24 minutes in one of the games and 18 in another, it's not, it's not a rough back to back. It's a rough back to back when you're in the tail end of the season and you got to push everybody 36, 37 minutes because you're desperate for a gamer here or there in the standings. And in general, this is kind of how I feel about spending assets to try to improve this team in the Western Conference. Three or four wins could be the difference between the four seed and a play in berth. A specific player could be the difference between you losing to Denver and you beating Denver. I mean, Cam Johnson for Denver could be the difference between them losing to Oklahoma City and beating Oklahoma City. These are pretty tight margins between these teams. And that's why I've been kind of like geared up on, on some sort of upgrade here. So I'm as stoked about Horford as you are. We don't need to talk about Melton too much because I think we saw him last year, his natural fit. It's just a question of whether or not his knee can hold up. But what archetype of player, if you like. Obviously we talked about Keon Ellis. He's three and D guy. I think every team could benefit from one of those. But if there was a higher level player that you could target at some point this season, what do you view as the specific need, the specific archetype of player that the warriors need to go into that top tier of contenders with the teams at the top of the West.

[Colin Cowherd]

I think it's Kean Ellis. No, but beyond him, No, I think it's they need. So Melton is another player who is a great point of attack, defender, can hit shots, can handle, create a little bit. I still think they need one more of those. And then I actually really love a guard rotation of Steph Pajemski with less responsibility in that. In that potential role. Because now you've added Melton, who will likely play less minutes off of a knee injury, and another guy in that rotation spot there. The other one is the obvious one, which is a front court player and they don't need to be a center. But I'm looking at someone 6, 8 to 6, 10 who can hit some open shots. The way I'm looking at it is if you get Horford, you have Draymond Horford And Quinton Post and Trace Jackson Davis. Now, Quinton Post and Trace Jackson Davis are fine for backups in the regular season. What I'd really like is one more guy I can put next to Horford and bring Draymond off the bench potentially. Or someone I could play next to Draymond. If they want to go a little more small and switchy. Honestly, it's what they were hoping Kuminga could be, but it just hasn't happened. For whatever reason, there's blame to go around for all parties there. So that would be the type I'd be looking at. And the player I would be looking at to help get it there is Moses Moody. And whatever they get in return for Kuminga, which is why, sneakily, I could see the team bringing him back just so that they could trade him in January for salary purposes, no matter how awkward the whole thing would be, no matter how much lying we're going to hear during training camp about how happy they are with each other.

[Sam Esfandiari]

In theory, he could potentially have more options to choose from in terms of at that point, just because the landscape of the league shifts and, and you had the team a different match, a different type of salary matching type of situation.

[Colin Cowherd]

It's been like reported multiple times that the, you know, three years, maybe a player opt out after the second year, so it's a short term deal, but it's, you know, it's not a one year deal. Right in the 20 to 25 range. I could actually see that being a very attractive trade trip at the deadline because you'd be acquiring a 22 year old who's on a very reasonable number, who you control for a couple years where you can really figure out is this one of my like core three pieces going forward? You know, because he is so young. He is, he is still just 22 this year or he's gonna be 23 this, this upcoming season. Sorry. I could see something like that happening. I just, I don't want to go down that path because it just, it feels like one of those things where there's a lot of risk of it blowing up and being an even bigger hindrance the other way. But anyway, with that, with that said, yeah, like the obvious one is get me an athletic wing who can play next to Draymond or Horford in the four spot who can hit shots, who can defend. That would be the type of player I would be most interested in.

[Sam Esfandiari]

Yeah, you know, I was talking about this with light. The Ida Suns fans straight up ask a mailbag question like should we get Kaminga and like what I said was like, if you can get him at 20 to 25 a year, hell yeah. Like, I do think that Kaminga has value at a number that is below 30 and where he has a Runway. It's specifically the combination of what he's asking for and what the warriors need from him that makes that situation untenable. If you could be flexible in that regard, it makes some sense. And similarly to the warriors, like, to your point, if he's, let's say he's at 2 years, 50 million, he's still a tradable asset at that point. If he's at 2 years, 65 million, that's where it's like. Or a longer term deal, it's like.

[Colin Cowherd]

Warriors 150, something like that, then you're attaching a picture to get off of him. Yeah, exactly.

[Sam Esfandiari]

Yeah, exactly. Do you think the warriors have enough offense? This has been something that I've been keyed in on for a little while. Even after the Jimmy trade. Just like there's this pretty clear line to where, like where when Brandon Pajanski shoots the ball really well, when Buddy, he'll play super well. You guys are borderline unbeatable. Do you have any. Is it. Do you have a desire to upgrade in terms of offensive talent, just a realistic approach to what's available, or do you actually think the warriors don't need that? They need more athleticism and versatility in role players.

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, being as they only have nine players under roster, they need everything. But I guess because we've debated this heavily on our show and there's been a strong push to just add 82 game players, you know, a bucket getter who's going to just lighten the load on Steph Curry in the regular season and how much it can help this team just have a little more offensive firepower, even if it's flawed. Offensive firepower. Right. I agree that would be useful. But if it's one or the other, I'm still going to lean into trying to get those defensive first closing playoff players. Because the way I look at it is, end of the day, if this team makes the playoffs, it's going to. It's going to be basically Steph carry us on offense and we're going to defend. And I just don't see a world in which them adding an offensive player who's a bad defender actually makes them a better playoff team. I think it leads them to being more in the middle than anything. So I know that's kind of a cop out answer. But it's kind of like what you saw with the Thunder as far as I'm concerned. The Thunder's offense at time I was like, man, they got nothing other than Shay, you know, that sort of thing. But I'd rather put a team of guys who can grind and will defend to like they just, they're hard to score on. And you trust Steph and Jimmy will eventually figure it out on offense, then try to go the other way and add a Malik Monk type where, man, you know, you know what it's like watching a team in January when those guys are exhausted. You're like, man, it'd be really nice to have some like Malik Monk coming off the bench with a little juice just to provide a little punch. But if it comes at the expense of like that point of attack defender or that versatile wing, I don't think it's worth it. So that's kind of where I'm at with it. I would, It's a nice to have. I view it still as a number two priority in terms of need to have.

[Sam Esfandiari]

Yeah. Eileen. Eileen. Slightly more towards it being something that they need in order to get into that next tier. I, I think part of it is my overarching basketball philosophy. Like even with Buddy Hill, like I thought Buddy Hill played the best defense of his career last season. Even though it was flawed, even though it wasn't perfect, there were moments where Buddy was really competing and, and doing some good work on that end of the floor. I like, I also just have generally looked at the warriors offense as kind of a counterbalancing effect where the Steph and Clay did this for years to teams where it was, it was the mutual impact of both of them and what they brought on opposite ends of the floor, running in and out of action that made them so difficult to guard. And I, I, I look at teams like Denver who scaled up on defense using intelligence and switching up coverages and having just kind of high IQ defenders, not necessarily the most athletic defenders and them doing as good a job against Oklahoma City as anybody else did in last year's playoff run despite being one of the worst defenses in the league down the stretch of the season. I'm indexing slowly each progressive season more towards offense and I'm wondering, I'm wondering how much of that will stick for me in the coming years. But yeah, I do. I would love to see a guy next to Steph who could reliably get to 20 points on any given night. Now maybe Jimmy, in theory that's Jimmy in theory. It's. And, and that's the thing is like, I'm hoping to get just a little bit more offensive juice out of Jimmy this year too. I think that could go a long way as well.

[Colin Cowherd]

So that's kind of why I'm like adding those two players who can shoot. Like, you know, the pie in the sky would be like, you know, Derek White, the shooting guard spot and like a Cam Johnson at the power forward spot. Like obviously neither of those are going to happen, Cam, specifically because he just went to Denver. But like, you know, adding those, those players who can shoot the ball, I think will also juice Jimmy's offense a little bit. He scored the ball incredibly well up until he had the, the glute injury that happened against Houston. I mean he put what, 37 in the playing game, had something like, I think he works. I think him and Steph work. I think they honestly need more shooting and defensive versatility than necessarily shot creation.

[Sam Esfandiari]

I think the shooting is the obvious one. Regardless of whether or not it comes in the form of a high level offensive player or a three and D player, they've got to have reliable shooting surrounding those guys. I think that goes without saying. That for the record, is why I'm excited about Horford. Like if you imagine a scenario where let's say you get a Keon Ellis and you get an Al Horford, that would be such an interesting look to have that type of group on out on the floor where legitimately the guys who are going to be flowing in and out of action and popping are going to be guys who are going to be knocking down shots, which is the, that like key difference. All right, I'm gonna put you on the spot before we get out of here. Let's say the warriors, let's just say they retain Kaminga on a 1 year, 20 million dollar deal or they sign and trade him for just filler, not Keon Ellis, but just filler. And they sign Horford and they signed the Anthony Melton handful of other veteran minimum contracts, but nothing, nothing like super needle moving. Let's say they bring back Gary Payton something, something along those lines. Where would you rank them in the west without any additional moves over the.

[Colin Cowherd]

Top of that.

[Sam Esfandiari]

Six?

[Colin Cowherd]

Mostly because in your construction, I think they're going to put too much on Steph and Jimmy shoulders and there's just going to be like they're going to be better than the sixth seed. I think that's just where they're going to end. Because Jimmy Ole miss 20 games Steph will miss 20 games and they'll be one of those teams where, oh, they're, you know, if you look at this, they're actually 20, 20 and 5 over the last 25, but the overall record is 47 wins, that type of thing. And to your point, I honestly think it's one of those things where if they turn Kuminga into the right type of energy piece and make maybe get a little internal improvement plus a Melton and Horford, they might win 53 games and be the second or third seed. You know, like, I actually really think the margins on that basis really do matter that much in determining where they end up finishing. And as you, as you said earlier and as we've seen, like the west has been so tight the last five years, it's like literally the difference between 45 and 50 wins is the difference between like the eight and the three seed most of these years.

[Sam Esfandiari]

Home quarter playing.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, exactly. A lot of it's down, A lot of it's down to health and your ability to, to just have a deep roster all year.

[Sam Esfandiari]

Yeah, I, I look at that tier and you can make cases for and against all of them. Like, I mean, you could say Minnesota lost and kill Alexander Walker and they're a little bit older in their front court and Conley's older and Go Bear's older and you know, they're just not going to be as good. But then you could also look at me and go like, yeah, but what if Anthony Edwards like watched Shay Gilders Alexander kick his ass and spends all summer working on stuff that's short to short to mid range scoring and becomes a dramatically better player? And the Wolves are better, right? Lakers, what happens with so many different guys they have that are older age? Clippers, what happens with so many guys that are older age? The warriors, do they successfully turn Kaminga and a couple of their other assets into more firepower? There's all of this different, you know, up and down potential for every single one of these teams. That's why it's tough to put them in a list and it's easier just to put them in tiers. But Sam, this has been amazing. I sincerely appreciate you taking time out of your busy day to come hang out with us and talk some Warriors. Why don't you tell everybody where they can find your stuff?

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, pretty simple. Just check out the light years pod wherever you listen to Pods, Apple, Spotify, YouTube. Doesn't matter, it'll be published there we go. Pretty regularly. We're live after every game. In the off season two to three times a week and whenever the Kuminga thing happens, I promise a breaking pod.

[Sam Esfandiari]

They, Sam and Andy and and Tommy as well do amazing work with light years. Make sure you guys go over there and support them. That's all we have for today guys. As always, we sincerely appreciate you guys for supporting us and supporting the show. We'll be back with our mailbag on Friday. I will see you guys then.

[Colin Cowherd]

Foreign.

[Sam Esfandiari]

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