Wilmer Valderrama (14:26)

It's nostalgia overload as Wilmer Valderrama and Freddie Rodriguez welcome another amigo to their podcast, Dos Amigos. Wilmer's friend and former that 70s show castmate Topher Grace stops by the speakeasy for a two part interview to describe, discuss his career and reminisce about old times.

Topher Grace (14:42)

We were still in that place of like, what will this experience become? And you go, you're having the best time. But it was like such a perfect golden time.

Wilmer Valderrama (14:50)

Listen to Dos amigos on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Freddie Prinze Jr. (14:55)

Wrestling fans all over the globe, It's Freddie Prinze Jr. And on wrestling With Freddie, we're breaking down every Damn moment from WrestleMania 412 nights. Non stop chaos, Legends, surprises, emotions and some of the best wrestling we've seen coming from wwe. We've got takes, we've got questions, and we have a whole lot of love for what these Men and women pulled off at Mania. Tiffany Stratton. She earned her Stripes at WrestleMania. And I don't mean because she won. She bled for her art. And it always felt like to me, after the Attitude era, once a wrestler gets cut and you see real blood coming out of their mouth or real blood coming out of their head, the crowd kind of goes, hey, respect. And they kind of give you that nod, right?

Freddie Prinze Jr. (15:42)

You go, wow, every one of these.

Freddie Prinze Jr. (15:44)

Guys is bleeding from the road, bro. That's literally like blood, sweat and tears.

Freddie Prinze Jr. (15:48)

It's all they got is blood.

Freddie Prinze Jr. (15:50)

We're talking Cody, we're talking Ria, Roman, Seth, Tiffany. The future of the business is bright. And if you watched Mania and you're still buzzing or if you missed it and want to know what went down, we got you. Listen to this episode of Wrestling with Freddie on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Freddie Prinze Jr. (16:09)

Before we talk Cavs, real quick, I just wanted to make an announcement for the show that is actually something very important that I'm very excited about. I am excited to announce that we are starting a partnership with Playback. This is a platform that I really believe in. I actually personally reached out to the volume and actually asked them to explore it specifically because I believe in it. We have a lot of big, big picture plans. I'm excited to use Playback next year potentially as like a watch along kind of thing where we can find big league pass games and you guys can come hang out during the game and we can actually watch a game together, talk about the game together. I can give like live play by play, live analysis of the game as things are going on. I have a lot of big picture plans for it. But for this year's playoffs, we're starting with something that we're calling the Hoops Tonight after show. So Starting on Wednesday, two days from today, after Game 5 of the Warriors Rocket series and Game 5 of the OF the Lakers Wolves series, immediately after we finish doing the live reaction show here on YouTube. So we're still doing the normal live reaction show, but right when we're done, we're going to head over to Playback for an after show and playback. One of the big things that I love about it is amazing for interaction with listeners. So you can actually come on stage and ask questions to myself and to Jackson. We can talk hoops as a community together. We're going to watch film together. So like imagine we're watching game one of the second round series between the warriors and the Timberwolves and the warriors win the game with like a huge 18 to 2 run. Or like it's thunder versus clippers nuggets and they win a game on a huge fourth quarter run. We'll watch it together and you guys will be able to ask questions as we go. I just think it's going to be an incredible addition to what we do here at HOOPS tonight and I think there's a ton of big picture potential too. So we have a link in the description of this video for you guys to follow to get set up with a playback account and that link will take you directly to our channel so you guys can get set up, head over there, get subscribed to our channel and we will get started with what is going to be a really cool new venture for the show starting Wednesday. We have an incredible slate with Warriors, Rockets, Lakers, Wolves, Game Fives. We'll be going right to playback immediately after our live show finishes that. So do me a favor tonight guys, when we're done with the video, head over to playback, get signed up so you guys are ready for Wednesday. All right, let's talk some Cavs and then after we're done talking Cavs, we'll take some mailbag questions from the chat. So just an unbelievable offensive avalanche from the Cavs in the last two games. Or as Cavs fans call it, a cavalanche. The stats that came out of the this series are absolutely crazy. The Cavs were number one in half court offense during the regular season with an offensive rating of 106. In the first round they logged an offensive rating of 118. Their offensive rating in the half court in this series is higher than the Celtics last year logged against the Heat overall in the first round series. Counting transition, counting everything in the game, they had a one the Heat or the Cavs in this first round series. This first round sweep logged a 1:36 overall offensive rating. Counting transition possessions and everything else. 16 points better per 100 possessions than any other team in this playoff run. They demolished the Heat in transition. They scored 43 transition points just in the last two games down in Miami. Their bigs run the floor extremely well. Jared Allen did a ton of damage there. Evan Mobley has been kind of an interesting connective passer for them in transition as he catches the ball up the floor. They move the ball well. They'll throw three or four passes right away on these transition possessions. You're in the blender immediately. But as I mentioned in the half court they are lighting teams up. They got a, they got this is crazy. On pick and roll, just on pick and rolls in the half court. Including passes, The Cavs logged 1.32 points per possession. That's astronomical. Three of the very best in the league to do it. We all know what Donovan Mitchell and Darius Garland can do. Ty jerome in the first round, obviously in a smaller role coming off the bench. 26 points, six rebounds and eight assists per 36 minutes. So that's the level at which he's producing in the minutes that he's on the floor relative to what it would look like in a larger role. On 68% true shooting, he ran 45 ball screens in the first round. That led to 63 points, 1.4 points per possession. A 140 offensive rating on Ty Jerome ball screens, including passes. He personally shot 14 for 23 from the field out of ball screens. The shot making is insane. Obviously the floaters, but he's been hitting like crazy. Contested off the dribble threes. He hit seven pull up threes in that series. He shot nine for 16 on pull up jump shots. Overall, his playmaking has been amazing. Finding cutters, he's a great cutter himself when he's off the ball in those situations. I have to shout out the Cleveland bigs. Jared Allen demolished Khalil Ware in this series. Just kept getting behind him on the roll, kept getting above him on the roll, kept beating him down the floor in transition. Evan Mobley, who had some struggles in the past as a short role player, has shown a lot of flashes in this series as a better quicker processor on the short roll and finisher in the short roll. It's so equal opportunity. Everyone is in rhythm. Mobley's still running action. Stress is running action on the second side. DeAndre Hunter is getting his isos and he's getting a couple ball screens per game. It's so important to have everybody involved to play at the pace that the Cavs play at. Because if you have play finishers surrounding guys that start everything, it's hard to play in transition because guys hesitate. They don't feel empowered to be aggressive in those situations. You need decisive and aggressive. You need decisive and aggressive offense around the entire floor. In order to run this style of offense, you got to have Max Struz feel like I like this shot. I'm taking it. You have to have max truce thinking I can curl off of this screen and make a play for myself and my teammates. You have to have Evan Mobley feeling like he's empowered to be aggressive off the bounce. Everybody on the floor has to be empowered in order for this style to work, and it's working. The catch and shoot plays insane DeAndre Hunter and Max Stru I was watching a bunch of offensive tape earlier this afternoon and like the kinds of like smothered catch and shoot looks that stress and DeAndre Hunter will knock down are insane. Guys are right there up on them and they're just rising up over the top and knocking down shots. DeAndre Hunter shot 7 for 9 on guarded catch and shoot threes in this series. Max Drus was 8 for 19. That's 42%. Those guys made 15 catch and shoot threes in the series with the defender right up on them. I am dangerously close to picking the Cavs to beat the Celtics should they meet in the conference finals. I'm not going to decide until after the second round, but this is a team that is quite literally humming on all cylinders again. For comparison, last year the Celtics against the Heat in the first round obviously a little bit different team, but against the Heat last year logged a 1:18 offensive rating. The Cavs are at 1:36 in that first round. The Cavs are operating at a higher level offensively right now than any team in the league by a wide margin. They have home court advantage. They're a bit less banged up, although Darius Garland did miss the last two games with a big toe sprain on his left foot. I'm leaning much closer to that being a coin flip series with how both teams are looking at this point and I'm again I'm going to wait till after the next round. How things look in the next round will obviously be something I keep an eye on. As I mentioned last night, the Pacers and Cavs are a really interesting matchup because I think the Pacers are a very similar type of team to the Cavs. They just are a little less talented at most of their position groups, but they play a very similar style. They did give the Cavs some issues at times this year, so I'm just really interested to see how the Cavs look in that matchup. The Knicks obviously from this Pistons team have been forced to improve on both ends of the floor over the course of the series as they've diversified their offense and had to get stops in big moments late in games that they've been able to get. Cavs or Cavs? Pacers and Nick Celtics is going to be a really fun second round in the Eastern Conference. I'm going to wait until we get to the conference finals before I make any sort of pick there. But I, I am, I am dangerously close to picking Cleveland. They're just playing at such an insanely high level. And when you look at like. And again, I know guys were out of the lineup for Boston in the last win that the Cavs had, but the way that the Celtics jumped them by like 20 in the first quarter and the Cavs just chewed them up and spit them out over the rest of the game just by playing with pace and just, and just driving, kicking them to death. The Cavs literally in this first round, made one of the most tough and disciplined organizations in the NBA quit. They literally quit. The Cavs destroyed them. They led by 60 today in a playoff game. They're playing some special basketball and I am very much taking notice and I'm going to be paying very close attention as we head into that second round series.

Wilmer Valderrama (25:37)

It's nostalgia overload as Wilmer Valderrama and Freddie Rodriguez welcome another amigo to their podcast, Dos Amigos. Wilmer's friend and former that 70s show castmate Topher Grace stops by the speakeasy for a two part interview to discuss his career and reminisce about old times.

Topher Grace (25:53)

We were still in that place of like, what will this experience be become? And you go, you're having the best time. But it was like such a perfect golden time.

Wilmer Valderrama (26:01)

Listen to Dos amigos on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Freddie Prinze Jr. (26:07)

Wrestling fans all over the globe, It's Freddie Prinz Jr. And on wrestling with Freddy, we're breaking down every Damn moment from WrestleMania 41. Two nights, non stop chaos, legends, surprises, emotions, and some of the best wrestling we've seen coming from wwe. We've got takes, we've got questions, and we have a whole lot of love for what these men and women pulled off at Mania. Tiffany Stratton, she earned her Stripes at WrestleMania. And I don't mean because she won. She bled for her art. And it always felt like to me, after the Attitude era, once a wrestler gets cut and you see real blood coming out of their mouth or real blood coming out of their head, the crowd kind of goes, hey, respect. And they kind of give you that nod, right?

Freddie Prinze Jr. (26:53)

You go, wow, every one of these.

Freddie Prinze Jr. (26:55)

Guys is bleeding, bro. That's literally like blood, sweat and tears.

Freddie Prinze Jr. (27:00)

That's all they got is blood.

Freddie Prinze Jr. (27:01)

We're talking Cody, we're talking Ria, Roman, Seth, Tiffany. The future of the business is bright. And if you watched Mania and you're still buzzing or if you missed it and want to know what went down? We got you. Listen to this episode of Wrestling with Freddie on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Freddie Prinze Jr. (27:21)

All right, let's get into our mailbag for about 10, 15 minutes before we get out here tonight.

Jackson (27:24)

Let's do it. Let's do it. Mailbag time. Everyone please ask your mailbag questions in the chat and we will get to the best ones. First one, is it sustainable for Steph Curry to play this many minutes?

Freddie Prinze Jr. (27:37)

There's been a lot of talk surrounding this in the, in the entirety of the playoff field. Different guys getting pushed, crazy minute totals, and whether or not guys are conditioned or ready for it. And quite frankly, in this first round setup with all the extra days off, I don't really have much of a problem with it. I think he can, I think he can get a little hairy once you start getting into a second, third round series where you start playing every other day. But like, I, I look at it like this. Steph is wearing down a little bit. So is everybody. These playoffs are extremely physical. The most important thing you can do is end a series early. And so I actually think it's more important to play an extra three, four minutes here or there and end a series in five than it is to cut minutes down but then have to play an entire additional game, an entire diff. Especially when you get later in the series and the travel schedule gets crazier as you go back and forth. Like game four, Game five, Game six, six, Game seven are all in different cities. So, like, it can get really tough at that point. I think, I think it's a valuable, I think it's a worthwhile risk to try to end a series early.

Jackson (28:43)

Yeah, I agree. And even though it does feel like Steph was wearing down physically a little bit in this game and from this series, this is also why Steve Kerr doesn't play him 40 minutes a game in the regular season. This is literally why, right? Like, he feels more comfortable. And Steph, I'm sure, feel, I'm sure that it's a two way street, that they both feel more comfortable being able to do this in the playoffs because he's not playing, whatever it is, 32 minutes a game in the regular season as opposed to Jalen Brunson playing 39. Right. That is part of the equation if you're the Golden State Warriors.

Freddie Prinze Jr. (29:15)

And for the record, there's no proven harder fast rule like people disagree about. Talk to Tom Thibodeau, see what he says. You know what I mean? Like and there's so, like. Think of it like this. If you're. Let's take Steve Kerr versus, like, JJ Redick and some of Steve Kerr's philosophy over the years. Like, do you remember when Steve Kerr took Steph out for a brief stretch in the middle of the fourth quarter in Game three? And you could tell Steph looked at him like, what are. Why are you taking me out? And you. I obviously am not a lip reader, but it looked like Steve Kerr kind of leaned into him and said, like, hey, just get a quick breather here so that you can come in and close the deal. And so, again, there's two different ways to look at it. There's the JJ Redick, Tom Thibodeau type of style, where it's like, all we have to do is survive this game and we get this extra time off. These are my guys. I trust these guys. Let's ride them through to the finish line. And then there's the Steve Kerr approach, which is like, if Steph is closer to a hundred percent of his ability for five minutes, do we have a better chance of winning the game than Steph being at 83% of his ability for seven minutes in a fourth quarter? And I feel like he's constantly kind of weighing that balance. And a lot of times it's a. A lot of times it's a judgment call based on how the game's going. Like, if the bench group is struggling, he might pull the trigger a little bit earlier. It's in that Game three, I think Steve literally was thinking, like, we're kind of in control here. We can afford to buy Steph a minute or two so that he has a chance to rest. But it's just. It's always complicated, and there are conflicting ideologies, and a lot of it is just playing the results. Like, if you. If the Knicks lose a game and they look tired, everyone's going to call Tom Thibodeau an idiot. After game four, everyone calls J.J. redick an idiot. But if it works, all of a sudden, they're geniuses. And so a lot of it's just playing the results.

Jackson (30:51)

Next question. What were your thoughts on Trace, Jackson, Davis getting some run today in general, but also specifically over Jonathan Kaminga?

Freddie Prinze Jr. (30:57)

Yeah, it was specifically to guard Shangon, and it's a really tough spot for Trace to get put in because he literally hasn't played. And you have to go guard the guy on the other team that's in, like, full rhythm who, like, guys like, this is not a revelation for Shangun. Shangun has been kicking people's asses all year. He. I have. I. I joke on the show that he's been like, the winner of my, like, film session award for the guy that most frequently has me watching the film. Like, holy shit, he's kicking his ass. Like, Shangun is an ass kicker. Like, he. He is a very good player if you can't match up with him physically. And post was getting cooked. They needed to buy a few minutes. It was worth a try. It didn't work out, but, I mean, it is what it is. I don't blame Trace, though, because he got put in a really tough spot.

Jackson (31:42)

Yeah, I mean, I think the answer why over Jonathan Kaminga is. Jonathan Kaminga was bad in game three. Like, actually a detriment. I would, I would say to their team in his minutes. And Draymond was in foul trouble.

Freddie Prinze Jr. (31:52)

He.

Jackson (31:53)

Trace isn't playing if Draymond's not in foul trouble. Another question, why aren't. This is from the commenter. Why aren't Draymond Green and Jimmy Butler looking to score more? It feels like they passed up a couple open layups for kick ass to threes.

Freddie Prinze Jr. (32:07)

So couple things. The Draymond, I think, needs to. I think Draymond's actually managed tonight offensively pretty well. Took a handful of catch and shoot threes. Didn't force the issue. I thought Jimmy's aggression was perfect in this game. His aggression on that left corner three, kind of a 50, 50 call. We joked about it before the show. Like, I personally disagreed with that call, but at the same time, I was always say bad calls are a part of basketball. Games are just kind of like something that you just see. But like his aggression. They. They went to him on that late ISO on the right wing, which I thought was interesting. When he took the left shoulder fade that he ended up missing, I thought Jimmy's aggression was fine. As far as the rim decisions. Like, in a series this physical, there's a lot of misses around the rim that are not leading to foul shots. And so if you don't feel really good about your chances of making the shot, you don't want to put the outcome in the hand of the ref. Like, that's the big issue with grifting that I have and why I'm not a huge fan of it in the big picture. And by the way, I'm not. I have grifters on the team that I root for, and the warriors have a grifter on their team. Like, the downside to grifting is you take control of the situation and you put it in the hands of the official. Whereas if you function more as a shot maker, you put the control of the situation into your hands. And so, honestly, like, I think it was good that Jimmy wasn't trying to just grift at the rim all game and that he was trying to, like, make the kick out reads that were there because that keeps control of the situation in the hands of the players.

Jackson (33:34)

Yeah, and Draymond has talked about this before, which is that, I mean, specifically with Steph Curry, but even in general, Buddy healed whoever you want to say of their actual shooters. But he talks about Steph Curry, where a contested Steph Curry three point attempt is worth more than a contested Draymond Green layup. Layup attempt. It's a better shot, period, point blank, no matter what the context is surrounding those two elements. Right. And so if Draymond Green is not going to pass the belaya, a wide open one off a fake handoff where the guy defense totally bites. Right. But is he. Is it in the team's best interest to challenge Stephen Adams, for example, who was in for long stretches of the game in the second half at the rim? Probably not.

Freddie Prinze Jr. (34:14)

And he was blocking everything.

Jackson (34:15)

And he was blocking everything. He was a monster. And especially when everyone on all parts of the defense are allowed to be more physical than they've been, you know, for 82 games of the regular season.

Freddie Prinze Jr. (34:24)

A Steph Curry guarded catch and shoot jump shot is worth 1.1 points. So Draymond would have to shoot 55% at minimum on a contested layup for that to be a worthwhile shot for the offense. And Draymond Green in, let's see, Draymond Green in the series or in the season. Draymond shooting 55% on layups. And so, like, it's like right there to where, like, for Draymond, if he doesn't feel like he's gonna make it, it's the right decision to keep it moving. Also, there's. There's. Everything is. I. I'm. I'm a big believer in tracking data as an opportunity to gain advantage whenever you have an opportunity. So, like, yeah, like, you should track shot value and stuff like that, but the basketball is way more art than science, as I always say. And like, if you turn down one layup that is worth roughly the same amount of points as a Steph Curry contested three. But Steph gets another look that helps him build rhythm that could potentially lead to a Stephen avalanche later on. Like, you're investing like that. That's. That's part of the point guard position. Like, you. You've got to invest in the rhythm of your teammates over the course of games. And, like, all of this stuff is intricately connected. And, you know, there's a reason why there's a Warriors culture that's like, make the extra pass. Like, hey, buddy, this is your teammate. Let me introduce you. His name is Steph. Or like, you know, Jimmy Butler saying, hey, don't ever dribble the ball, buddy. Healed. Like, they're all working together to maximize this offensive system through their communication. And, like, the best version of the warriors is the version of the warriors you saw in game three and in game one, which is when Steph Curry is cooking. When Steph Curry is cooking, the other team literally gets, like, emotionally demolished and they, like, curl up within themselves, and every other Warrior gets invigorated on defense, and they just become incredibly difficult to handle. It's been like that for a decade. You got to invest in Steph as much as possible as a shot maker, 100%.

Jackson (36:18)

Next question. In your experience, does trash talking. Does talking trash to struggling players work? Trying to figure out why Dylan Brooks keeps talking trash and quote, unquote, poking bears before seemingly getting fried every time.

Freddie Prinze Jr. (36:30)

I. So I was never a trash talker in terms of initiating stuff. I. I have been known to completely black out if someone starts talking trash to me, and then I turn into a huge asshole and then I end up having to apologize after the game's over because I feel I get, like, overcome with guilt when the game is over for being such an asshole. But, like, I. I can't speak for trash talking as an art because I've only ever done it reactively in. In anger, as opposed to, like, I've never been, like, a manipulative trash talker. I'm much more of, like, I state I focused on what I can control with my teammates, and I'm a big, like, teammate energy guy, like, trying to help everybody on my team stay confident and engaged on both ends of the floor throughout the game. But, like, I'm. There's a better person to ask that question to. I just don't have much experience trying to manipulatively trash talk. But that said, one thing I will say, I have seen examples of guys do that and it work where a player succumbs to it in the form of trying to get out of the game and focus on just winning his individual matchup. So, like, start to force the issue. I've also Seen guys like completely crumble in their confidence and fall apart. So, like, I suppose it can work. But I've also seen trying trash talkers get themselves out of whack by getting too invested into trash talk situations. And like Draymond played a dangerous game almost getting himself ejected today by getting into a bunch of altercations. There was a play where Jimmy Butler and Dylan Brooks were like talking shit to each other at the foul line and on the box out Jimmy Butler's hands ended up around Dylan Brooks's neck and like, had Dylan Brooks like thrown a hand and like tried to hit him back or something, that could have immediately gone into a full on like scrum, but Dylan just fell down and it ended up just being a play on. But like, I would imagine just like anything else, there's a give and a take with it.

Jackson (38:21)

Yeah. And I think it's probably person to person. Like, I think some people, the trash talking hypes them up and gets them more into the game. Draymond being one of those people. And if that is what you need individually to get more into the game, cool. And I also think there's probably the smart trash talkers, I would guess like the Draymonds of the world, the Gary Paytons of the world.

Freddie Prinze Jr. (38:40)

Back Gary.

Jackson (38:41)

Gary Payton, the older Gary Payton who are being more selective, being knowing there are guys that if you talk trash to them, you can get on their head a little bit easier versus guys that if you talk to them, you might be poking a bear who might wake up. You know, it's probably a little bit of nuance to it as well, for sure.

Freddie Prinze Jr. (38:55)

And one last note. I do think there's something to be said about it being a little less of a. There being less of a downside if it's a defensive minded player. Because any of you guys who have played the game know that, like, if you get really emotionally worked up, offense gets harder. Like slowing down and shooting a jump shot is harder. Slowing down and processing a game is harder. You tend to like speed everything up when you're super emotionally, like worked up on the basketball court. The but for a defender who's not required to methodically run offense or take a bunch of jump shots, they can afford to get super worked up and have it not have as much of a downside. So I don't think it's a coincidence that you see a lot of guys like Dylan Brooks, like Patrick Beverley, like Draymond Green that end up embodying that type of personality.

Jackson (39:43)

Yeah, that's a great Call a question about Stephen Adams. He was. Got a lot more minutes tonight, was very effective in his minutes on both ends of the court, you know, as an offensive rebounder, primarily on offense, but definitely as a defensive player. And it did feel like the rocket zone, even with Adams on the 1. Adams was on the floor, was effective even when Steph was on the floor. What is your take on the Stephen Adams effect and if he's going to play a lot, a lot more in game five or going forward in the series like he did tonight.

Freddie Prinze Jr. (40:10)

So he was plus 16 in 26 minutes. I'm trying to see if they've posted the the zone defense numbers yet from this game. Let's see. Because if I bet you it had a lot to do with the success of the zone that they were having. And we had 31 possessions of zone defense in this game. So that was probably the big. But by the way, the warriors fared well of one point per possession against the zone. That's actually really solid, but they ran a bunch of it steady throughout every court. By the way, they only ran four possessions of zone total in the first three games of the series. They ran 31 tonight. So definitely something. We talked about that after game three though, we, that we expected them to run a lot more zone later in the series. But honestly, I think, I think, you know, we, we talk so much about coaching within the context of like, oh, well, here's what this lineup data shows or, oh, here's what, you know, this player should theoretically do to be able to compliment what this other player does. And often, like as a coach in the moment, you're trying to read how guys are playing like, oh, like Jalen Green doesn't really have it tonight. Let's lean more into Jabari Smith Jr. Or like, oh, our zone looks are causing them some problems. Let's lean into Stephen Adams more. Whoa, look at this. Like, Stephen Adams's rim protection is having a real impact on the, on the warriors at the rim. Like, this is something that we should be investing in. Like, that is always a call that you're making in the moment as a coach, and it's a lot harder than it looks in the moment when everything is going down and the game is moving way faster than you think it would in that sort of situation. And it's just, it's a tough call. But I think, I think like, whether or not you see a bunch of ste of Stephen Adams in game in Game 5 is going to come down to how it looks. And by the way, we Saw him a lot in the second half in those zone possessions. The warriors were actually 1.3 points per possession in the first half. But in the second half, in 22 possessions, the warriors were 0.86 points per possession. So Ime Udoka was probably making a call in the moment saying, like, this is what we should do. And by the way, like these, these coaching staffs will have coaches tracking behind the bench like, hey, do me a favor. Tonight your one job is track points per possession on man and zone. That way if a late game timeout comes around, is five minutes left and they're, they're having a timeout and they're in the huddle. You guys remember that early fourth quarter timeout where Steve Kerr was like, hey, can you let me go so I can talk to my coaches? Like, that's what they're doing. They're pow wowing as a group before they go to the bench to talk. Like, that's. As soon as the timeout is called, the players all go sit down, they start drinking water and they take a break. The coaches all huddle up and they decide what they're going to do. Then they head over to the bench and then they relay the message that they want to relay. And a lot of times it's getting information like, oh, hey, by the way, we're defending really well with Stephen Adams. We're. Plus, you know, whatever. In his minutes. We're getting this point for possession on zone. And then he made you Dokama go like, okay, I'm going to ride Stephen Adams for longer. It's all like an in the moment type of decision.

Jackson (43:05)

Yeah. And I also thought part of it was due to the fact that Draymond was off the floor. He's such a good passer that it's, it, you know, he's really valuable against his own, even though he's not. He's not really a, you know, an.

Freddie Prinze Jr. (43:16)

Intense shooting threat for sure. An interesting example on the other side is Buddy Heald over Moses Moody starting tonight. Like Buddy yield. Shooting has been vitally important over the course of the last couple of games. I thought his ball pressure on Jalen Green early in the game was really valuable. He kind of sped Jalen Green up early and forced a couple of turnovers. Like there, there is, there's value in making in the moment live decisions that can maximize the ability of your basketball team 100%.

Jackson (43:46)

Next question. What are your thoughts on the huge chasm of physicality between the regular season and the playoffs? Are there ways to make the disparity smaller. Do you like the disparity? Do you like the way it's being refereed, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera?

Freddie Prinze Jr. (43:58)

I think it's really easy from our couches to be like, this is too physical. They should do something to rein it in. I think the reality is, is that we have a bunch of really relatively even series in the first round. Pistons, Knicks, very even. Clippers, Nuggets, very even, even Celtics Magic has been like, every game has been close with exception of game two. Warriors, Rockets has been closed. Lakers, Wolves has been close. So when you get all of these teams, and by the way, every single team I listed, except for Detroit in Orlando have like, legitimate championship aspirations. Like, they think they're going to win the title. So what that leads to is like an insane level of intensity and competitiveness that manifests in physicality. And now the ref's job is to try to control it, but if they control it by calling a bunch of fouls, it's just going to bog the game down into the mud. And as you saw, like, at any point tonight, did it feel like the physicality lightened up, even though the refs were calling stuff? Like, no. Like, it. It just. It's really hard to stop the players from competing the way that they're competing. That said, if I had to choose between this in the opposite, I would take this every single time. You know, I. I just think there's a handful of, like, the. The big thing that I've struggled with is the inconsistency. Like, there's been a lot of instances where like, certain types of. Like, a perfect example is that Jimmy Butler foul in the corner. So Josh Hart's foul on Tim Hardaway Jr. Was substantially more of a foul, but then this one ends up getting called. There's no consistency there. And like, that. That really is the only thing I'll ever get on officials about. Like, certain, certain games take on different feel based on how the teams are playing. But inconsistency to me is you not doing your job.

Jackson (45:38)

Yeah. And one of the things I was texting with Jason about before during the game tonight and we talked about last night, is the big challenge. One of the big challenges of the increased physicality is these challenges and the proximate fouls that they can call. Because the one last night, for example, the LeBron one on Ant, they're not calling that. Obviously they didn't call it, and they're not going to call that in the flow of the game. And the one tonight as well. It's like there was one on Steph in the first half, I think where he got. It was an out of bounds. It was called out of bounds. They challenged it. Get the foul call. Because Dylan Brooks is kind of going point A to point B type of jump, yada yada. And that one was a little more. That one could have been potentially called a foul in real time. But this proximate foul, slow motion review compared to the flow of the physicality of the games is a real, real challenge. I think the league has to like, sort of wonder what to do with.

Freddie Prinze Jr. (46:28)

This is a great point. And this is where, you know, I've always talked about. I got a huge argument about this with. I'm trying to remember who it was I got in the argument with. There was a sports writer. And it's, it's killing me that I can't remember his name right now. Cause it was a long time ago. But he did an extensive report on officiating in the NBA and like how they do it. And they have like basically these two things. This thing called the, the rule book and this thing called the case book. And they're. And they basically is like the pathway with which that they try to like come up with a standard for officiating games. And I, one of the things I was trying to talk to him about is like, I think that you need subjectivity in officiating. You, you can't be letter of the law because basketball games don't work that way. Basketball games are all unique. They're, they're, they're, they're each their own kind of like individual tapestry. Like, look at how much different tonight was than game three. Fundamentally different game. Different players were playing, different guys were playing. Well, like, it was just a totally different type of game. And so the point is, is like, you have to be willing to in the moment be like, oh, yeah, LeBron fouled Ant A little bit there. But with the way we've been officiating this game, that would have probably not been called. It wasn't called live. Let's not call it now. Now the, the one with Dylan Brooks on the sideline with Jimmy Butler is a little tougher because it got called a foul live, but same sort of thing. I would have gone in there and I've been like, okay, in my initial, I was talking to the guys before the show, like on the baseline angle, it looked like a foul because you're like, why the hell is Dylan Brooks, like shoving Jimmy while he's shooting? That's stupid. And then you watch the sideline angle and it's like Dylan's hand is just kind of like on his hip. It's not really much of a shove at all. And there's no foul up top it. And you could see Jimmy kick his right leg out. And so it's like on the replay. That was a pretty standard non call relative to the other calls in the game. And so it's one of those things where to your point, they, they need to be able to in the review handle it the same way they do live. You can't suddenly operate by a totally different rule book or like standard in a slowdown than you would live. That makes absolutely no sense.

Jackson (48:28)

Yeah, it's. It's just a challenge. The refs have a tough, tough job.

Freddie Prinze Jr. (48:31)

The job is tough. The last thing I'll say, I've ref one game in my life. It was a students versus teachers game when I was at Arizona Christian and, and they just asked one of the guys on the basketball team if, if they'd be willing to like volunteer. And I was like, sure, I'll do it. And like the campus pastor was cussing me out after the game, like cussing me out because I was the only reffing a five on five game. And I opted to just basically not call anything unless I was 100% sure. So there was like a ton of uncalled fouls because that was the way I chose to. I was like, I'm not going to guess what happens in this game. And it's like this casual students versus teachers. And the dude is like cussing me out like. And I'm like, I'm like, this is the campus pastor. This is crazy. But the point, the point being like, there is. It is a very difficult job, but these are the best in the world at it. This is what they do every single day. And if there's one situation that you should be able to get it right, it's in the slowdown situations like that for sure.

Jackson (49:25)

Last question. Which one seed has looked more complete so far?

Freddie Prinze Jr. (49:29)

Oh, man. I think the Cavs have looked better offensively and the Thunder have looked better defensively. Shay did have a little bit of. Of rough, a rough shooting series. At certain points in the series, the Thunder did show a lot of really high level connective playmaking, which was something that I thought was a really positive trend for them. I do think that the Thunder, man, that's a really, really tough question. I'm gonna go with the Cavs though. I'm gonna Go with the Cavs. I mean, the Thunder got punched in the mouth in game three.

Jackson (50:02)

Yeah, good point.

Freddie Prinze Jr. (50:04)

You have any take there?

Jackson (50:06)

I think, I think the Cavs have looked better. I think that they, they probably played a worse opponent in round one, but they, they've looked, they just to your point, I think they've dominated game for the most part. There was one little, you know, stretch there whether it was a game two, maybe that the Heat were competitive, but for the most part, yeah, but for the most part, they've dominated. The Cavs were at no point down by 20.

Freddie Prinze Jr. (50:29)

Yeah. And they're operating at just an insane level offensively. All right, guys, that's all I have for tonight. Remember, click the link in the description to head over to playback and get set up there so that you guys can be ready for our first after show on Wednesday. And again, as always, I sincerely appreciate you guys for supporting me and supporting the show. We will be back. We're not doing a film session tomorrow. We are going to be live tomorrow night after the final buzzer of Clippers Nuggets Game 5, which should be a really fun one. I will see you guys then. What's up guys? As always, I appreciate you for listening to and supporting Hoops tonight. It would actually be really helpful for us if you guys would take a second and leave a rating and a review. As always, I appreciate you guys supporting us, but if you could take a minute to do that, I'd really appreciate it.

Jason (51:11)

The volume.

Wilmer Valderrama (51:16)

It's nostalgia overload as Wilmer Valderrama and Freddie Rodriguez welcome another amigo to their podcast Dos Amigos. Wilmer's friend and former that 70s show castmate Topher Grace stops by the speakeasy for a two part interview to discuss his career and reminisce about old times.

Topher Grace (51:32)

We were still in that place of like, what will this experience become? And you go, you're having the best time. But it was like such a perfect golden time.

Wilmer Valderrama (51:40)

Listen to Dos amigos on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

Freddie Prinze Jr. (51:45)

What's up Federation? It's Freddie Prinze Jr. And wrestling with Freddie is back and we're going all in on WrestleMania 41. From the unpredictable to jaw dropping finishes, this year's mania might have just changed everything. By the way, almost all the matches that we saw looked like real fights. I thought like they were like, yo, we're going hard today, Tomorrow we're going to hurt, but we're going hard today because it was like beast mode times 10 out there. Listen to this episode of Wrestling with Freddy on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.