← The Herd with Colin Cowherd
The Herd with Colin Cowherd
Hoops Tonight - Why Anthony Edwards is #5 on my NBA player rankings for 2025 | Minnesota Timberwolves
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- [00:00]
Jason
This is an iHeart podcast.
- [00:05]
Matt Jones
Hey, this is Matt Jones and I'm Drew Franklin, and this is NFL Cover Zero. We're just here to try to give you an NFL perspective a little bit different.
- [00:15]
Drew Franklin
Did you see the Colts pretzel? That was my other big takeaway from that game.
- [00:18]
Matt Jones
What was that? Oh, my. We think NFL coverage should be informative and entertaining. And twice a week, that is exactly what you're going to get. Listen to NFL Cover Zero with Matt Jones and Drew Franklin on the iHeartRadio app, podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.
- [00:38]
Greg Rosenthal
Football is back. That's right. The new NFL season is here and you should be listening to NFL Daily as we march along to Super Bowl 60. It's in the name NFL Daily, so you'll have fresh content in your feed all season long. Join me, Greg Rosenthal, in an all star cast of co hosts for previews and recaps of every single game. NFL Daily will keep you up to date with everything you need to know so you can sound smart. Smarter than all your friends. Listen to NFL daily on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [01:09]
Dan
I'm Dan. He's Ty.
- [01:10]
Jason
Hello.
- [01:11]
Dan
And we're the solid verbal college football Podcast.
- [01:14]
Ty
Tune in for previews, recaps, bits you won't hear anywhere else, and all the emotional support you need as a college football fan.
- [01:22]
Dan
Join us all season long as we ride the roller coaster of this ridiculous sport.
- [01:27]
Ty
Listen to the solid verbal college football podcasts on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [01:35]
Dan
We don't just love college football, Ty. We live it.
- [01:41]
Marcus Grant
I'm Marcus Grant.
- [01:42]
Michael F. Florio
And I'm Michael F. Florio. And together we host the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast.
- [01:48]
Marcus Grant
Ready to dominate your fantasy league this season?
- [01:50]
Michael F. Florio
Then you need the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast, your ultimate source for player news, draft tips and winning strategies.
- [01:57]
Marcus Grant
Whether you're a rookie manager or a.
- [01:59]
Michael F. Florio
Fantasy vet, we've got the insight to help you crush your opponents.
- [02:03]
Marcus Grant
Listen to the NFL Fantasy Football podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [02:13]
Jason
The Volume. All right, welcome to Hoops Tonight here at the Volume. Happy Wednesday, everybody. Hope all you guys are having a great week. We are continuing our player rankings today, moving into our top five in the final player in our second tier, superstar tier number five, Anthony Edwards is going to be doing a deep dive on him today. At the tail end of the show today, I'm going to go through every single player in this 5 through 14 group, the second tier of superstars. And for the younger guys, I want to talk about what I think their peak can be one day. And for the older guys, I want to talk about what their peak was. Look at the specific stretch of their career where they were playing the best basketball that they played and where they stacked up in the league at that point in time. Should be a fun little exercise at the tail end of the show. You guys know the drill before we get started, subscribe to the Hoops Tonight YouTube channel so you don't miss any more of our videos. Follow me on twitter_jason lt so you guys don't miss show announcements. Don't forget about our podcast fee. Wherever you get your podcasts. Under Hoops under Hoops Tonight. It's also super helpful if you leave a rating and a review on that front. Jackson's doing great work on our social media feeds, Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok. Make sure you guys follow us there. And then, last but not least, keep dropping mailbag questions in those YouTube comments. We'll get to them in our Friday mailbags over the course of the remainder of the off season. All right, let's talk some basketball. So it's funny because I put Ants at number five last year, and that was probably it was two things. It was the pick that I got caught the most shit for, and I would argue it was one of the bigger mistakes that I made with that list. Again, the rankings are supposed to predict who will be the most valuable player in that coming season. And I thought Jayson Tatum, in retrospect, after watching last year pretty clearly was the fifth best player in the league last year. I thought Ant, you know, in a lot of ways took a big leap and in many ways moved up the latter. But in the postseason in particular continued to show some of the flaws that you expect from a player his age, which we're going to do a lot of talking about today. But in retrospect, that was one of my bigger mistakes last year was putting ant up at 5. It should have been Jason Tatum, but as I look at this season, I landed with Ant at number five, and I think it's the right spot for him in this coming season. He's the most reliable player in the league by a mile in terms of availability, which we'll talk about in a minute. He took a massive leap in both scoring volume and efficiency last year. He's in a phase of his career where we can expect substantial improvement year over year, and I think in particular his struggles against Oklahoma City were very informative for him in his player development. Again, we're going to spend a good amount of time talking about that today. I think his playoff shortcomings are a little overstated because he's basically been amazing outside of the two Western Conference finals series, and he's basically just struggling with the highest levels of playoff basketball right now, which is pretty typical for a superstar in his early 20s, the way that Anthony Edwards is. So like, those shortcomings made it a close call for me with Steph, but I ended up landing on Ant at the number five spot and I feel pretty good about it this year. I was a year too early with it last year, but I think this is where he falls in the league's hierarchy at this point in time. Look at last season in review. 79 games played for Anthony Edwards. He's played in 79 games three years in a row. He's played in at least 70 games every season of his career. This is a crazy stat. Here's a list of players who missed more games just last season than Anthony Edwards has missed in the last three seasons combined. Excuse me, I am underselling this. Here's a list of players who missed more games last season, just last season, than Anthony Edwards has missed in his entire career. Luga Doncic, Tyrese Maxey, Paolo Banchero, Lamelo Ball, Anthony Davis, Kyrie Irving, Zion Williamson, Cam Thomas, Joel Embiid, Ja Morant, Brandon Ingram, Kawhi Leonard, Brandon Miller, Kristaps Porzingis, Lauri Markkanen, John Collins, Jalen Johnson, Jaden Ivey, Dejounte Murray, Emmanuel Quickley, Paul George, Jordan Clarkson, Jalen Suggs, Jared McCain, Jonathan Kaminga, Mark Williams, Chet Holmgren, Aaron Gordon, Jeremy Grant, deandre Ayton, Aaron NE Smith, Chris Middleton, and Herb Jones. Every single one of those dudes missed more games just last season that Anthony Edwards has missed in his entire career and he's never missed a playoff game. So to put it very simply, he is by far the most dependable night to night superstar in the NBA right now. He reminds me of a young LeBron in the sense that like you'll see him turn the shit out of his ankle and you'll be watching the TV thinking there's no way he's going to be good to keep playing. And then he's ripping through the defense to the rim like 90 seconds later. It's a big upside for him on a, on a list like this. Like, we can talk about Anthony Edwards ceiling, and we're certainly going to today, but he is by far the most likely player in the league to at least be at or near his ceiling every night from October to late May or June. And that's a big feather in his cap on a list like this. Ended up being the major differentiator for me, especially with that debate with Steph, who I think is a better basketball player in the small sample. Still to this day his average is last year in 79 games, 28 points per game, 6 rebounds and 5 assists with 1.8 stocks, 45% from the field, 40% from 3 and 84% from the line. 4. Massive increase in his 3 point volume last year. One of the things that I did predict correctly with Ant last summer was that his newfound shooting stroke was real and I predicted that he would shoot well that season and he did. He just leaned into it almost comically so with just the sheer amount of volume of three point shots that he was putting up, he was one of the top three three point shooters in the league last year. He was number one in makes. If you were to include shot quality, volume, efficiency. There were three guys who really separated themselves from the Pac as three point shooters last year. Steph Curry, Malik Beasley and Anthony Edwards. I would argue that Steph was the most impressive three point shooter last year, especially considering quality. I'd put Ant second and Malik Beasley third. So I thought Ant was the second most impressive three point shooter in the entire NBA last year. It was a big leap forward for him in that very specific regard. That came with both upsides and downsides. Again with the upsides and the downsides, they both fell in line with my basketball worldview. He gained in the form of large sample efficiency. This is a concept we've talked about a ton on this show. High volume 3 point shooting. Leaning your into that shot profile you will gain in the form of large sample efficiency. Very rarely will you see a player massively increase their scoring volume while simultaneously increasing their efficiency. And and Ant did. And the reason why is because of his three point volume. He went from 26 points per game to 28 points per game and he logged from. He went from 58% true shooting to 60% true shooting. So a substantial increase in volume and a substantial increase in efficiency because of that increase in three point volume. Again, when you tilt your volume, your shot profile towards three point line. There is a lot to gain in large sample efficiency. But as I always say, skewing heavily towards three point shooting makes you highly susceptible to variance. And in the Thunder series in particular, Ant had three duds. He had a one for nine from three game and he had two one for seven from three games and the Wolves lost all three of those games. In fact, if you looked, if you kind of zoomed out from the Wolves in their postseason run last year, there was a pretty clear correlation between his three point shooting and his team winning. When he shot over 40% from three in the playoffs last year, they went seven and oh, and when he shot below 30% from three they went one for five. One in five. Excuse me. I think Ant would really benefit from better balance in his approach and we'll talk more about that later, especially when we do a deep dive into the OKC series. But one of the things that I'm counting on here for, man is I do think he learned his lesson there. I do think we'll see more balance enhanced shot profile next season. Now let's look at the play type data. He was an excellent pick and roll player last year. He ran over 1200 of them and got 1.07 points per possession including passes. That was in the 81st percentile. Being over a thousand reps puts you onto our high volume list as we go over every summer. He ranked seventh out of the 13 players in the NBA last year to run at least a thousand pick and rolls for a guy in his early 20s. Big accomplishment for him. He shot extremely well out of pick and roll. He was 40% on pull up threes out of ball screens on massive volume. Trae Young was the only NBA player last year to hit more threes out of pick and roll than Ant did. And it was the only player in the NBA to attempt at least 200 pull up threes in ball screens and to make at least 40% of them. That's obviously going to drive up his pick and roll scoring efficiency. And he has a really good floater. He only takes about once a game, but he made 49% of his floaters last year. Gets nice and close to the basket, uses it as a deceleration move. He'll get like downhill into the defender's chest and then he'll like sidestep into a little floater that allows him to shoot before getting to the rim protector, which has been vitally important for him in some of the spacing issues that they've dealt with with Gobert. Really impressive scoring in the ball screen situations. We're going to talk a little bit about Ant as a playmaker today, but the truth of the matter is is he's very much a traditional score archetype self awareness is key. Understand who you are when it comes to that top tier of playmaking. That's almost always something that you're born with. That's like a natural kind of like processing thing with the way you see the floor. That's not a death sentence. There are a lot of guys in NBA history who have been great as primarily scorers. You know we were talking about that with Kevin Durant the other day. The other day. Michael Jordan is a example. That's why Ant gets kind of compared to him a lot. But like for Ant it's not about becoming some surgical playmaker. It's just about making the necessary strides to be good enough at it. Right? He'll make nice driving kick reads in ball screens. You'll see him elevate and rifle an opposite Corner Pass. Jaden McDaniels for a good look. He has become a more willing passer over the years but he's very much a reactionary passer. He's not going to anticipate things and pass people open. He's going to see openings and throw the ball reacting to the defense reacting to him. And that's fine because I think he, I think he has the potential to be a true like, like a apex scorer in this league and I also think he has the chance to be an all defense level two way player. That is enough to make him a top tier superstar one day. He just needs to become more surgically reliable as a scorer the way a guy like Shay Gilders Alexander is. And he'll need to reach that all defense level which we'll get more into in a little bit. His one on one stuff wasn't great last year and this is where I think the three point shooting really came back to bite him. He ran 636 ISOs and post ups last year including passes and got just 0.91 points per possession. Not good. I just think this comes down to a combination of two things. One, the Gobert problem just in general in ISO situations you're not getting the benefit of Gobert as a screener. You're getting Go Bear in the dunker spot and Ants not a particularly good lob passer. Gobert's not a particularly good lob finisher. It just creates some spacing issues there. The second piece of it is just Ant bailed on the mid range shot and shot fine on pull up threes in ISO shot 38%. Not as well as he did in other areas as a three point shooter but that's enough like 38% from three is like I was I had a comment on on the LeBron video where someone was like why did he say 36% is good on pull up threes in ball screens? 36% on threes in ball screens is fine. That's well over a point per possession. 36% on pull up twos is bad. You would be correct about that. But when it comes to pull up twos, you want to be in the high 40s at a minimum. But when it comes to pull up threes, as long as you're over 35%, you're getting enough points per shot out of it that it's a good shot. And shot 38% on pull up threes out of ISO. That's fine. The problem is he shot just 41% on twos out of ISO and just 31% out of the post. Now again, like we talked about the spacing piece, but the second piece of it is anchors bailed on the mid range shot. This year we are extremely excited to announce our new presenting sponsor, Hard Rock Bet. Everyone knows and loves the Hard Rock hotels and casinos and and now you can use the top rated Hard Rock Bet sportsbook to place all of your bets all NFL season and beyond. Hard Rock Bet is the only legal sportsbook in the state of Florida and is also available in Arizona, Ohio, New Jersey, Indiana, Tennessee, Virginia, Illinois and Colorado, with more states launching all the time. You can also play on Hard Rock Bets online casino if you are in New Jersey. So from here on out you're going to see us use betting lines from Hard Rock Bet, especially as we get into the NBA season. It'll be a big part of our coverage from there and as we gear up for the NFL season, sign up for Hard Rock Bet and make a $5 bet and you'll get $150 in bonus bets. 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- [16:57]
Matt Jones
Hey, this is Matt Jones. I'm Drew Franklin and this is NFL Cover Zero. We think NFL coverage should be informative and entertaining and twice a week. That is exactly what you're going to get. We're just here to try to give you an NFL perspective a little bit different.
- [17:15]
Drew Franklin
Did you see the Colts pretzel? That was my other big takeaway from that game.
- [17:17]
Matt Jones
What was that?
- [17:18]
Drew Franklin
Looks like something that should not be sold.
- [17:20]
Matt Jones
Oh, my.
- [17:21]
Drew Franklin
So that was my other big Colts takeaway.
- [17:22]
Matt Jones
Sold that.
- [17:23]
Ty
Yes.
- [17:24]
Jason
Might want to go back to the Colt Stadium.
- [17:25]
Drew Franklin
Yeah, I might want to go back to the drawing board on that.
- [17:27]
Matt Jones
Yeah.
- [17:28]
Jason
I thought the shape we had with.
- [17:29]
Drew Franklin
Pretzels was working pretty well.
- [17:30]
Jason
It's worked for generations.
- [17:32]
Matt Jones
We're just here trying to enjoy it. We hope you all will join us throughout the year. And let's go.
- [17:37]
Drew Franklin
I hope I'm as youthful as Pete Carroll is at his age. He's a young 73.
- [17:41]
Matt Jones
He is a young 73. He is spry.
- [17:43]
Drew Franklin
I wouldn't fight him.
- [17:45]
Matt Jones
I would listen to NFL Cover Zero with Matt Jones and Drew Franklin on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.
- [18:00]
Marcus Grant
I'm Marcus Grant.
- [18:02]
Michael F. Florio
And I'm Michael F. Florio, and together we host the NFL Fantasy Football podcast.
- [18:07]
Marcus Grant
Fantasy season is here. And the question is, are you ready to dominate your league?
- [18:11]
Michael F. Florio
Because if you're not locked in with us, the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast, you're already playing from behind.
- [18:17]
Marcus Grant
Every episode, we're breaking down the biggest fantasy headlines, injury updates you need before kickoff, and matchups you can exploit to bury your competition.
- [18:26]
Michael F. Florio
We're talking sleeper picks, breakout stars, and the players you can't afford to bench.
- [18:31]
Marcus Grant
Whether it's rookies making noise or veterans keeping their value, we cover it all.
- [18:35]
Jason
Whether you're drafting for the first time.
- [18:37]
Michael F. Florio
Or chasing another championship, we'll give you.
- [18:39]
Marcus Grant
The edge, the insight and the confidence to make every every move count.
- [18:43]
Michael F. Florio
Weekly analysis, hot takes, and insider knowledge all in one place.
- [18:47]
Marcus Grant
So what's it gonna be? Another just okay season or total fantasy domination? Listen to the NFL Fantasy Football podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [19:00]
Dan
I'm Dan. He's Ty.
- [19:02]
Jason
Hello.
- [19:03]
Dan
And we're the solid verbal College Football podcast.
- [19:06]
Ty
College football season is here. And you know what that means.
- [19:12]
Dan
Your team is going to break your heart three times, probably before Halloween.
- [19:17]
Jason
Uh huh.
- [19:18]
Ty
But fear not. The solid verbal will be right there with you through every soul crushing loss and impossible comeback.
- [19:25]
Dan
Join us all season long, all year long, as we ride the rollercoaster of this ridiculous sport.
- [19:31]
Ty
Whether you're a diehard fan or a casual observer, we'll help you make sense of all the chaos and of course, celebrate the madness. Tune in for previews, recaps, bits you won't hear anywhere else, and all the emotional support you need as a college football fan.
- [19:47]
Dan
We don't just love college football, Ty, we live it.
- [19:52]
Ty
Listen to the solid verbal college football podcasts on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [20:01]
Greg Rosenthal
Football is back. That's right, the new NFL season is here and you should be listening to NFL Daily as we march along to Super Bowl 60. This is a show for sickos like me. NFL Daily is your kind of show. It's in the name NFL Daily. You'll have fresh content in your feed all season long. Myself, Greg Rosenthal and an all star cast of co hosts will preview and recap every game all season long. Josh Allen coming off an MVP season.
- [20:27]
Play-by-Play Announcer
And now lateral to Allen and reaching for the pylon. Are you kidding me? It's a touchdown. Have you ever seen that one before?
- [20:37]
Greg Rosenthal
Rookies making a name for themselves.
- [20:40]
Play-by-Play Announcer
Bulldozer. He is bouncing off defenders and dragged down.
- [20:45]
Greg Rosenthal
And of course the Eagles trying to win another Lombardi.
- [20:48]
Jason
What a game. What a season. What a team. Team. Eagles fans savor it and rejoice.
- [20:56]
Greg Rosenthal
Listen to NFL daily on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [21:03]
Jason
In 2024. So the year before last Ant had built out a pretty robust set of like short fades over both shoulders, little step back moves and he just generally leaned on his short range scoring way more. He ran 571 one on ones that year and got 1.03 points per possession which is really solid one on one work on substantially higher mid range volume, substantially higher postup volume. That's a part of his game that he just let go. And what that's what really concerns me about what happened last year. It shows a lack of emphasis on that part of his game. I I want Ant to emphasize that as part of his development moving forward so that he's just more rounded in 2024. Ant attempted to shoot out of the post 68 times. Last year that dropped to just 35 times. He posted up seven times total in this year's playoff run. He did so 27 times two years ago and guess what? He got 1.19 points per possession out of the post. So he posted up to devastating effect in the 2024 playoff run like twice a game and literally went down to doing it like Once every other game. That's abandoning a super efficient play type that is just about proven to be more impactful in the postseason because of the physicality than high volume three point shooting is looking at short range jump shooting in 2024. Ant attempted 210 jump shots inside of 17ft in 2025. That dropped to 136, almost half. And it especially showed in the playoffs. He took 40 of those short twos in the 2024 Western Conference finals run. He made 21 of them. That's 53%. That's 1.05 points per shot. He was getting great success out of mid range jump shooting and post ups in that playoff run. Physical aggression, using his athleticism to get more consistent shot making closer to the rim. He went from 40 down to just 16 of those in this most recent playoff run. So in other words, despite making real progress as a short range scorer and getting real reliable results in that 2024 playoff run, Ant bailed on it in the name of large sample efficiency in the form of high volume three point shooting. I thought this difference in philosophies was especially glaring in the Western Conference finals series against Oklahoma City this year. Two elite defenses going at each other. Yeah, I didn't like Minnesota's game plan. Picking up Shay, you know, at half court, that was something that I think did more harm than good. But two elite defenses going at each other, Two very different types of scorers. Shea was able to get these consistent bits of short range shot making that carried him in that series and he bolstered it with the ability to get to the foul line. Ant on the other hand, had several ice cold nights from three and he's not as good at getting to the line. As a result, SGA was able to score more effectively. And I was digging into the numbers. The difference was almost entirely short range scoring and free throws. So Shea badly outscored Ant in that series. He had 157 points to Ant having just 115. It's a 42 point gap over the course of the series. Excuse me. Yeah, 42 point gap. That's massive. And it was almost entirely made up of short range scoring and free throws. Shea made 29 twos outside of the restricted area and made 44 free throws. That's 102 points right there. Ant made 14 twos outside of the restricted area. So less than half as many and just 22 free throws. Half as many. That's 50 points. That 102 to 50 gap, that was literally the difference between the two of them as scorers in that series. Ant's game built on three point shooting failed him. SGA's game built on short range scoring and the ability to get to the line. That did not fail him. That's the change in approach that we need to see from Anti in order for him to jump from that second tier of stars into that first tier of stars again like we talked about earlier. Step 1 Self awareness. Acknowledge the type of player that you are. Ant is never going to be the type of dude who averages 10 assists per game. A good portion of that playmaker, playmaking talent is what you're born with. I think that Ant certainly could be a guy who you know, in his early 30s is around 78 assists per game just because he becomes super experienced at making the reads all the time. But I don't see him getting into that apex playmaker tier. So Ants Apex as a player is basically best scorer in the league, dominant perimeter defender, the Michael Jordan archetype. That is his path. So step two is identifying this flaw in his approach and I do believe that Ant will I think we're going to see a massive increase in anti in short range scoring this year as soon as this season at the expense of large sample efficiency. Like I am fine with Ant dropping a little bit in his true shooting percentage this year. His post up volume needs to skyrocket. I think he needs to lead the league in guard post ups this year. He's built like a damn tank and it's going to be something he can lean on in the postseason. 2. He needs to emphasize short range shot making in his ISOs. Work guys down closer 10ft from the basket. Build out those short step backs both directions. Turn around over your right shoulder, turn around over your left shoulder. Maybe a left shoulder hook. The advanced footwork like step throughs, things like that, short range scoring and then lastly the foul grifting. I may hate that shit. Ant strikes me as the type of dude who probably hates that shit too. But if he could figure out a way to get to the line maybe one more time per half, like maybe just adding pump fakes out of the post or taking some more aggressive driving angles to get into defenders chests forcing the ref to blow the whistle. But if he could find a way to get a couple extra free throw attempts per game, I think that would go a long way as well. This is where Ant actually has the capability of one day surpassing a guy like Shay Gilders Alexander. Those of you guys who've been following the show for a While might remember I got into a debate with the nerd sesh guys years ago, it was like two or three years ago about who had a higher potential ceiling between Ant and sga. And the truth is Ant does have more potential. He has to earn it. He has to actually get there. But his size, strength and athleticism is an absurd tool. He's built like an absolute truck and he has the potential to build out a bully ball game that SGA could never build out. He has a quicker first step. He's far more explosive at the rim vertically and has the potential to be a much better defender. But right now SGA is better than him at all those things. SGA is a far more polished post player right now. He's better at using change of pace and counter moves to get all the way to the rim. So he gets to the rim more often and finishes at a higher percentage when he gets there. He's a better rim finisher. He's better at drawing fouls when he gets there. And even though Ant has all this defensive potential, Shea's a better defender than him right now. He's more attentive off the ball. Ant would certainly be better than SGA one on one playing on an island, but who's stupid enough to attack Ant one on one? You run him through screens where he can struggle to navigate screens and you take advantage of his lack of attention off the ball. I think Ant has all world defensive potential, but right now Shea is the more useful off ball defender because he's got good length and he's always in the right spot. He plays, pays attention to the defensive scheme and where he's supposed to be and that makes him a more useful defender, a more complete defender right now. Now none of that is a death sentence for this rivalry. Shea is a solid three years older than Ant and if you actually compare the season Ant just had to a season from SGA three years ago, Ant is actually considerably better than SGA was at that point in time. So Ant is technically ahead of schedule, but he's got a long way to go. SGA made massive leaps in those three years. He's Ants got his work cut out for him. I get super excited about Ant because I think his potential is preposterous. We talked a second ago about how Ant's defensive talent hasn't really had high level impact yet, but he has the potential to be like a game breaking defender. He could easily become one of the two or three best perimeter defenders in the entire NBA if he just got better at Navigating screens and he's got the quickness to do it and the strength to do it. He has the strength to switch onto bigger forwards and switches and he has ridiculous weak side potential. Jumping passing lanes, protecting the rim. If he can just become more attentive and smarter in the game plan. So I, I absolutely think ain't could be an all defense level player. That's not really in the cards for a guy like SGA in my opinion. And he's quite literally just barely scratching the surface of his offensive potential, which feels crazy to say considering he just averaged 28 points per game on 60% true shooting for a full season. When he starts to master like timing on his drives and change of pace and just getting a little bit more methodical with the way he attacks the basket. When he becomes a master short range scorer, which I think is in his future when he goes up just that little bit of an extra level as a playmaker just from making the same reads thousands of times. When he starts to figure out how to get defenders out of position to draw that extra couple of fouls per game, he's got a long way to go. But I think Ant legitimately has best player in the world potential. I'm not sure SGA has that. He has the physical talent to be an indomitable two way force in the playmaking talent. Like when, when, when you're looking at these guys in this tier, you have got to be really, really great at multiple things to be the best player in the world. Shea is transcendently great as a score, which is enough to move him into this top tier. But he doesn't have the defensive talent to be like extremely good on the defensive end and he doesn't have the playmaking talent to be extremely good as a playmaker. I think you need to check two of those boxes to enter into that conversation with like Jokic, who is a transcendently great score and a transcendently great playmaker. Ant has the ability to check multiple boxes one day. I think he could be a transcendently good scorer and a transcendently good defender. That is the pathway to him becoming the best player in the world. I want to be very clear, I'm just talking about potential. There is a. I would argue it's more likely than not that Ant kind of ends up as just another guy in the top tier for the majority of his career, but that potential is there. It's going to take obsessive competitiveness, obsessive work behind the scenes dedication and willingness to do the dirty work. But I do think Ant has all world potential, the ability to be remembered as one of the guys who took the title of the best player in the world at some point in time. Ant has the potential. In the meantime, I think number five is a safe sp, a safe bet for Ant. In this coming season. He's going to play at least 75 games. He's going to average at least 28 points per game on at least 58% true shooting. Assuming he cuts down on his three point volume a little bit, I expect him to invest more in short range scoring. I think he did learn his lesson after last year and I don't think it would be a bad trade off if he lost a little bit of that regular season efficiency. But he became a more reliable playoff score. And again, like everything, I'm grading him on a curve here. When I talk about best player in the world, I mean he's played 42 playoff games, made two Western Conference finals run, and he is a career 27 points per game on 59% true shooting in the playoffs. That's the guy that we've all nitpicked into oblivion. Ant is in the unfortunate position of being a player in his early 20s who is consistently making deep playoff runs and consistently facing off with experienced superstars. And those dudes outplay him. This is causing everyone to hyper focus on his flaws when the reality is he's crushing it for a guy his age. In the meantime, I haven't ranked at number five, but I am really curious to see if he can actually capitalize on that all world potential. All right, now that we're done with our second tier of superstars, I wanted to take some time to look back at this grouping. Talk about what their absolute peaks were or for the younger guys, what their actual peaks could be.
- [35:21]
Matt Jones
Hey, this is Matt Jones and I'm Drew Franklin and this is NFL Cover Zero. We think NFL coverage should be informative and entertaining and twice week. That is exactly what you're going to get. We're just here to try to give you an NFL perspective a little bit different.
- [35:38]
Drew Franklin
Did you see the Colts pretzel? That was my other big takeaway from that game.
- [35:41]
Jason
What was that?
- [35:42]
Drew Franklin
Looks like something that should not be sold.
- [35:44]
Matt Jones
Oh my.
- [35:45]
Drew Franklin
So that was my other big Colts takeaway.
- [35:46]
Matt Jones
Sold that.
- [35:47]
Ty
Yes.
- [35:47]
Drew Franklin
Might want to go back to the.
- [35:48]
Matt Jones
Drawing board at the Colts stadium.
- [35:49]
Drew Franklin
Yeah. Might want to go back to the drawing board on that.
- [35:51]
Matt Jones
Yeah.
- [35:52]
Drew Franklin
I thought the shape we had with pretzels was working pretty well.
- [35:54]
Jason
It's worked for generations.
- [35:56]
Matt Jones
We're just here trying to enjoy enjoy it. We hope you all will join us throughout the year. And let's go.
- [36:01]
Drew Franklin
I hope I'm as youthful as Pete Carroll is at his age. He's a young 73.
- [36:05]
Matt Jones
He is a young 73. He is spry.
- [36:07]
Drew Franklin
I wouldn't fight him.
- [36:09]
Matt Jones
I would listen NFL Cover Zero with Matt Jones and Drew Franklin on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.
- [36:22]
Dan
I'm Dan, he's Ty.
- [36:24]
Jason
Hello.
- [36:25]
Dan
And we're the Solid Verbal College Football Podcast.
- [36:28]
Ty
College football season is here and you know what that means.
- [36:34]
Dan
Your team is going to break your heart three times probably before Halloween.
- [36:39]
Jason
Uh huh.
- [36:40]
Ty
But fear not, the solid verbal will be right there with you through every soul crushing loss and impossible comeback.
- [36:47]
Dan
Join us all season long, all year long, as we ride the rollercoaster of this ridiculous sport.
- [36:53]
Ty
Whether you're a daughter, diehard fan, or a casual observer, we'll help you make sense of all the chaos and of course, celebrate the madness. Tune in for previews, recaps, bits you won't hear anywhere else, and all the emotional support you need as a college football fan.
- [37:09]
Dan
We don't just love college football, Ty, we live it.
- [37:13]
Ty
Listen to the solid verbal college football podcasts on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [37:24]
Marcus Grant
I'm Marcus Grant.
- [37:26]
Michael F. Florio
And I'm Michael F. Florio. And together we host the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast.
- [37:31]
Marcus Grant
Fantasy season is here. And the question is, are you ready to dominate your league?
- [37:35]
Michael F. Florio
Because if you're not locked in with us, the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast, you're already playing from behind.
- [37:41]
Marcus Grant
Every episode, we're breaking down the biggest fantasy headlines, injury updates, unique need before kickoff, and matchups you can exploit to bury your competition.
- [37:50]
Michael F. Florio
We're talking sleeper picks, breakout stars, and the players you can't afford to bench.
- [37:55]
Marcus Grant
Whether it's rookies making noise or veterans keeping their value, we cover it all.
- [37:59]
Jason
Whether you're drafting for the first time.
- [38:01]
Michael F. Florio
Or chasing another championship, we'll give you.
- [38:03]
Marcus Grant
The edge, the insight and the confidence to make every move count.
- [38:07]
Michael F. Florio
Weekly analysis, hot takes, and insider knowledge all in one place.
- [38:11]
Marcus Grant
So what's it going to be? Another just okay season or total fantasy domination? Listen to the NFL Fantasy Football podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [38:24]
Greg Rosenthal
Football is back. That's right, the new NFL season is here and you should be listening to NFL Daily as we march along to Super Bowl 60. This is a show for sickos like me, NFL Daily is your kind of show. It's in the name NFL Daily. You'll have fresh content in your feed all season long. Myself, Greg Rosenthal and an all star cast of co hosts will preview and recap every game all season long. Josh Allen coming off an MVP season.
- [38:51]
Play-by-Play Announcer
And now lateral to Allen and reaching for the pylon. Are you kidding me? It's a touchdown. Have you ever seen that one before?
- [39:01]
Greg Rosenthal
Rookies making a name for themselves.
- [39:02]
Jason
Run again.
- [39:04]
Play-by-Play Announcer
Bulldozer. He is bouncing off defense. Winners and drag down.
- [39:09]
Greg Rosenthal
And of course, the Eagles trying to win another Lombardi.
- [39:12]
Jason
What a game. What a season, what a team. Eagles fans savor it and rejoice.
- [39:19]
Greg Rosenthal
Listen to NFL daily on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [39:28]
Jason
We're gonna start at number 14 and work our way up the list. So number 14, Joel Embiid. I actually had a hard time with this one. I settled on the 2021 season. I understand that he won the MVP in 2023 and put up all those crazy scoring numbers, but that was a phase of his career where he was super banged up and he really struggled to get through seasons healthy and he just wasn't very good when he would get to the playoffs every year all banged up. In 2021, that was really the only year where he played multiple playoff rounds and didn't experience any sort of substantial drop off in his scoring or efficiency in the postseason compared to the regular season. In the 2021 regular season, Embiid averaged 29 points and 11 rebounds, 11 rebounds on 64% true shooting. In the playoffs, he averaged 28 points, 11 rebounds on 63% true shooting. He had some turnover issues, especially at the end of the Hawk series, but if you guys remember, that was the series where Ben Simmons like just completely the bed and they probably advanced to the conference finals and have a great shot to win the title if they get a better performance out of Ben Simmons in that series. I think at that point in time, even including the playoffs, you would have to consider Embiid in that top five. Like he was a consensus top five player at that point in time. He had some like best player in the world buzz. In later years, like when he was competing for MVPs, but mostly from a regular season box score standpoint in a lot of like Philadelphia 76ers fans, a lot of basketball people understood at that point that Embiid was too physically beat up and too inconsistent as a playoff performer to actually be considered as one of the Top guys back in 2021. I think that was the year where you look at him as a consensus top five guy. Unfortunately, I think that will end up being Embiid's peak. I don't think he'll ever be able to get back to that level again with his knee troubles. Number 13, Kawhi Leonard. I think the answer to this one is pretty clearly 2019. I think he hit higher levels as a basketball player later on, but he was unable to sustain them because of his knee troubles. Like, if you wanted to pick like a very small window for a peak, I would look at his two playoff runs in 2021 and 2023 before he got hurt both years. In those 13 playoff games, he was like robot Kawhi at his finest. 31 points, eight rebounds and five assists per game on 57% from the field, 42% from three, and 88% from line with 2.1 steals per game. That's probably the highest individual peak he reached. But 13 games isn't enough to qualify for something like this. I think 2019 was like that mind body skill peak for Kawhi Leonard. He wasn't quite as good as he was in later years, but he was actually healthy enough to sustain it. He averaged 27 points and 7 rebounds on 61% true shooting in 60 regular season games. He played in the all of their playoff games that year. He averaged 31 points and nine rebounds on 62% true shooting in the playoffs. He hit all sorts of iconic shots on his way to a Finals MVP for an awesome Raptors team and hoisted the trophy. I think at this point in time he was the clear fourth best player in the world behind LeBron, Steph and KD. Now if you want to argue Kawhi second because KD and LeBron were both hurt that year, sure, go ahead. But I mean LeBron literally went right back the next year, whooped Kawhi's ass, and was clearly the best player alive and won the title. So I don't. I think that was more injury related. And then I would argue that Kawhi's ceiling has been higher than KD ceiling post Katie's Achilles tear. But I thought healthy Katie in 2019 was still a better player than Kawhi Leonard at that point in time. So I think like Kawhi peaked as like the fourth best everyone's healthy player in the world during that particular season. Number 12, Donovan Mitchell. I think we're actually at Donovan Mitchell's peak right now, more or less the peak of his Mind, body, skill, connection. Like we talked about earlier, he might not be putting up the same numbers he did in 2023, but I think he's a much better game manager now and he's a better defender now than he was there towards the end with the Jazz. And he just put together a monster playoff run this last season. I, I do think this is the highest Donovan Mitchell will ever get. I'm not going to say that he can't move up. I just don't necessarily think he will. He relies very heavily on his athletic advantages at this point in his career, but he's about to turn 29 years old. I think he may plateau here for a couple of years, but I would be surprised if he ever moved up substantially. Like, I'd be surprised if we were ever talking about Donovan Mitchell as the fifth best player in the world. I think this is more or less the peak for him, but I don't, don't get hung up on the number 12 thing. Like, the league is super deep with talent. The bottom line is this year I considered him to be on the same level as the second tier superstars in this league, which I think is an amazing accomplishment, especially for a guy who is a 13th pick. Number 11, Kevin Durant. I think his peak was 2018. The numbers weren't super impressive because of the fact that he was playing on the most talented roster ever assembled, but they were impressive nonetheless. 26 points, 7 rebounds and 5 assists on 64% true shooting. A career high. 1.8 blocks per game that year in the playoff run, 29, 8 and 5 on 61% true shooting. Culminating in what I thought was the best game he ever played. In one of the best individual games I've ever seen any NBA player in the history of the league. Game 3 of the NBA Finals against the Cleveland Cavaliers, that was a game, if you guys remember, Stephen Clay both went completely ice cold and basically no showed the game. And Katie went for 43 points, 13 rebounds and seven assists on 15 for 23 from the field and six for nine from three. And the box score doesn't really tell the full story. I thought he was masterful from start to finish. I thought he completely controlled the flow of the game. He hit the dagger over LeBron to end that game with from like 27ft away from the basketball. That was KD's peak, in my opinion. Now the question is, where did KD rank at this point in time? You know what's funny is at the time, a younger version of me, almost a decade ago, I thought KD was better than Steph at that point in time, but it was a long time ago. I was a much younger basketball fan. I didn't really understand basketball the way that I do now. I didn't understand advantage creation the way I do now. So I now feel pretty strongly that Steph was the best player on that team. So at that point in time, I would have put KD third behind LeBron at 1 and Steph at 2. I just think Steph's advantage creation was the actual thing that made that team go. Steph was a little bit susceptible to variants. And yeah, like, KD was saved their ass, but that's what made it a sweep. Like, Steph was going toe to toe with LeBron without Kevin Durant in the couple of years before that partnership, I think Steph was a better player than KD at that point in time. But that, to me, like, it's interesting because I do think KD reached a higher point in the league's hierarchy earlier on. Like, from 2012 to 2014, he was the second best player in the world behind LeBron. I just think KD as a basketball player was better in 2018. Steph just had surpassed him at that point. There's no shame in that. I think Steph is the fifth best perimeter player of all time. That's just what happens when Steph Curry comes into the equation. Number 10, Anthony Davis. This one's easy. 2020. 26 points and nine rebounds with four stocks per game on 61% true shooting that season. Absolutely ridiculous. Playoff run. 28 points and 10 rebounds per game on 67% true shooting. Became an absolutely deadly jump shooter in that playoff run. He shot 47% on all jump shots. He shot 62% on long twos outside of 17ft. He was 31 for 50. Hit a game winner. He was a dominant defender the whole year from start to finish. It really answered the question of, like, what would it look like if you had the best defender in the league, but also a guy with a deadly jump shot? And that guy, in my opinion, at that point in time, was the fourth best player in the world. Now, unfortunately, as with Embiid, I just think AD is too far gone in terms of his injuries and the weight that he's put on and the age that he's at now. I don't think he'll ever pass that ceiling again. But 2020 was the peak of Anthony Davis's career. Number nine, Jalen Brunson. Similarly to Donovan Mitchell. I think we're Experiencing his peak right now. By the time you guys see this video, he'll be 29 years old. So he'll begin to experience some age related decline in athleticism. But I do think he'll hang at this level for like similar to Mitchell. I think he'll plateau here for a while before he go, before he goes down. But we're in a three year span where in the playoffs for three consecutive seasons he's averaged 30 points per game on 57% true shooting with seven assists. That's one hell of a run from a guy who's now entered into that second tier of superstars Again. We were talking about this with like Shay at the top. Like the problem with guys like Mitchell and Brunson is they're not transcendently great at scoring the way that Shay is and they don't have that. I'm awesome at several different things tier. Like Brunson's a better passer than Donovan Mitchell, but Jalen Brunson still is not an elite passer and he still is not a guy who can impact the game defensively. And so they're both really good scorers, but they just don't have the versatility elements of their game to crack into that top tier. And if you're going to crack into that top tier without versatility, you got to be like Shay, a guy who's going to average damn near 34 points per game hyper efficiently. And that's just not what you're getting out of those two guys. So I, I look at Br, Brunson and Mitchell as more or less at their ceilings right now. Number eight, LeBron James. Peak for me with LeBron was 2018 was unfortunately one of the worst rosters he ever played on, but he still managed to drag them to the finals. He averaged 28 points, nine rebounds and nine assists on 62% true shooting that year. Went up a massive level in the playoffs. One of the best individual playoff runs you will ever see in the history of the NBA. He averaged 34 points, nine rebounds and nine assists without a dip in efficiency. Stated 62% true shooting. He coasted on defense in the regular season, but he was great on that end in the playoffs. He had eight 40 point games in that postseason run. He hung 50 on the warriors in the finals. He hit multiple buzzer beating game winners. He won multiple series as the underdog. To put it very simply, not only was LeBron the best player in the league in 2018, I think 2018 LeBron is the best basketball player to ever Play in the NBA. Number seven, Victor Weminyama. Obviously not too much to dig into here. Last season was his peak. Not hard to see why. It was his second season. Obviously predictable leaps across the board. The question is, what will Wemby's peak be? And the answer is, I think he will be the best player in the world someday. I talked about Ant today and how he had the potential to one day become the best player in the world, but it's far from a guarantee with Ant. I actually think it's a safer bet with Ant that he cracks the top tier of superstars but never actually claims the top spot. I personally would be surprised if Wemby never actually took the top spot in the NBA. He's already the best defensive player in the world. He's very likely to get even better on that end in the coming years as he gets better at reading and reacting to modern NBA offenses. Like, I think he'll become. He's already the best defender in the NBA. I think he'll become far, far, far, far, far and away the best defender in the NBA in time. But I also think it's almost a certainty that he'll eventually average 30 points per game on 62% true shooting or so probably in the next like two or three years. So like, I think it would require an injury or for Wemby to like just straight up not figure a lot of basic out for him to not eventually become the consensus top player in the world. Two more, number six, Steph Curry. I think his peak stretched from the end of the regular season in 2021 to the time he hoisted the trophy in the 2022 finals. I think that 2022 season was the one time in Steph's career where I think he had a really strong, really hard to refute case as the best basketball player alive. Like, I disagree with warriors fans who think he was better than LeBron during LeBron's prime. I, you know, it gets to be a debate with him. And In Giannis in 2021, I had Giannis as the best player in the world in 2021. He won the title. Kind of feels like you have to give it to him. There's Jokic, I think snatched it for good starting in 2023. 2022 is that one season in Steph's career where I really do think he had a strong case to be the best player in the world at that point. Giannis regressed a little bit off of his title winning season in 2021. Jokic hadn't really peaked yet. Maybe because of his rosters, but still we'll just, you know, he hadn't made that successful deep playoff run where he just alpha dogged everybody like he did the following season. LeBron was never the same after his high ankle sprain in 2021. Luca and Shay Gil Alexander weren't ready yet. I think that was the window in time where Steph had that best player in the World Belt 2021, the second half of the season. That was insane. Steph's last 43 games that year despite the entire league throwing everything at him because KD was out, Klay Thompson was out. He was getting the most aggressive coverages in the world. He averaged 34 points per game on 67% true shooting for 43 games. That is far and away the most impressive scoring and efficiency stretch of his career. He did battle a slight shooting slump in the following season, but on a better roster. He recaptured his touch in the playoffs, made the run at the end. Iconic game in Game 4 on the road in Boston. Gets that title that legitimizes everything and shuts the haters up from the previous titles. Lastly, number five, Anthony Edwards. I'm going to go with the 2024 season. So two years ago obviously he had a much more impressive regular season this year with his high volume three point shooting. But I thought that he was more surgical and more physically aggressive as a score in 2024 and I think that made him a better player in the playoffs compared to the compared to the following year. Now as I said earlier, I do think Ant has the potential to be the best player in the world someday, but I think it will require a lot of things to go right for him. I think he needs to maximize his defensive potential and become a much more reliable possession to possession scorer. And he just has a long way to go to get there, but I do think he has that potential. All right guys, that's all I have for today. As always, I sincerely appreciate you guys for supporting me and supporting the show. We will be back on Friday with a mailbag. I will see you guys back.
- [54:42]
Matt Jones
Hey, this is Matt Jones and I'm Drew Franklin and this is NFL Cover Zero. We're just here to try to give you an NFL perspective a little bit different.
- [54:52]
Drew Franklin
Did you see the Colts pretzel? That was my other big takeaway from that game.
- [54:55]
Jason
What was that?
- [54:56]
Matt Jones
Oh my. We think NFL coverage should be informative and entertaining and twice a week that is exactly what you're going to get. Listen NFL Cover Zero with Matt Jones and Drew Franklin on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.
- [55:15]
Greg Rosenthal
Football is back. That's right, the new NFL season is here and you should be listening to NFL Daily as we march along to sleep Super Bowl 60. It's in the name NFL Daily, so you'll have fresh content in your feed all season long. Join me, Greg Rosenthal, in an all star cast, a co host for previews and recaps of every single game. NFL Daily will keep you up to date with everything you need to know so you can sound smarter than all your friends. Listen to NFL daily on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [55:46]
Dan
I'm Dan. He's Ty.
- [55:47]
Jason
Hello.
- [55:48]
Dan
And we're the solid Verbal College Football Podcast.
- [55:51]
Ty
Tune in for previews, recaps, bits you won't hear anywhere else, and all the emotional support you need as a college football fan.
- [56:00]
Dan
Join us all season long as we ride the rollercoaster of this ridiculous sport.
- [56:05]
Ty
Listen to the solid verbal College Football podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [56:12]
Dan
We don't just love college football, Ty. We live it.
- [56:18]
Marcus Grant
I'm Marcus Grant.
- [56:19]
Michael F. Florio
And I'm Michael F. Florio, and together we host the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast.
- [56:25]
Marcus Grant
Ready to dominate your fantasy league this season?
- [56:27]
Michael F. Florio
Then you need the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast, your ultimate source for player news, draft tips and winning strategies.
- [56:34]
Marcus Grant
Whether you're a rookie manager or a.
- [56:36]
Michael F. Florio
Fantasy vet, we've got the insight to help you crush your opponents.
- [56:40]
Marcus Grant
Listen to the NFL Fantasy Football podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [56:49]
Jason
This is an iHeart podcast.