← The Herd with Colin Cowherd
The Herd with Colin Cowherd
Hoops Tonight - WTF is Giannis doing, Steph & Warriors plan, can Pelinka save Lakers? | NBA Trade Deadline Reaction
00:46:44
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- [00:00]
Jason
This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.
- [00:04]
Rob Gronkowski
This is Rob Gronkowski and Julian Edelman from Dudes on Dudes with Gronk and Jules. Rob, I've never asked, are you a dips guy? Like the workout? You can't tell. No, I mean for your chips. Oh, I knew that. Yeah, of course. You gotta try this new Daisy's French onion dip. Goes great on Sundays. I like the sound of that. I Everyone knows you need a good dip for game day. Personally, I like to dip everything I can. Veggies, crackers, chips. Heck, I might even dip a buffalo wing in there. That reminds me, they also have Daisy's ranch dip. Now you're speaking my language.
- [00:45]
Jason
Yup.
- [00:46]
Rob Gronkowski
Seems like a no brainer on game day. So get out there and give the French onion dip a try. You won't regret it.
- [00:53]
Jason
The season's heating up and doordash keeps fans deep in their bag the whole way through. Players have their bags, sure, but with doordash, fans do too. When the game's moving fast, doordash keeps the snacks stocked, the gear fresh, and the watch party vibes immaculate. And when your team blows a lead, suddenly you're a dessert person. Doordash always comes through. Fries, face masks, whatever you need to emotionally recover. So from tip off to ot, stay in your bag and order on doordash. Snacks, drinks, gear, any and everything delivered doordash in your bag all season long.
- [01:26]
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- [02:36]
Jason
All right, welcome to H tonight here at the Volume. Happy Friday, everybody. Hope all of you guys have had an incredible week. Today is mailbag today day and we are staying keyed in on the trade deadline. So all of the mailbag questions that I've received from you guys from that I've received from you guys for today, have come from our trade deadline reactions and are going to be focused around the trade deadline. You guys know the deal before we get started, subscribe to the Hoops Tonight YouTube channel so you don't miss any more of our videos. Make sure you like this video. That helps us a lot. And then last but not least, if you want to get questions into these mailbags like this, like we do every Friday, drop them in our full episodes on YouTube. Underneath the video mailbag colon, write your question that helps me sort through it when I'm looking through the comments. We'll get to them on Fridays throughout the remainder of the season. All right, let's talk some basketball. It's kind of a wild night in the NBA last night. So like the warriors came back from down 14 in the fourth quarter to beat the Suns in Phoenix. Victor Wyama and Cooper Flag had a fun battle against each other. The spurs pulled away late in the Lakers got Austin Reeves back and then promptly lost Luca to a hamstring injury as their season is appearing to be cursed in its own way. But Austin fried the Sixers for 35 points. It was really nice to have him back and honestly, just a really fun basketball player to watch. I enjoyed watching Austin last night. Joel Embiid is starting to look like MVP Embiid again and he's been averaging 30 for 21 games now. The Rockets lost at home for their third time in four tries and both Emea Udoka and Kevin Durant were like openly shitting on Alper and Shangun's defense, which was interesting. We Will Riley and Sharif Cooper fried up the Pistons in Detroit. It's kind of a wild NBA night, but we're going to stay big picture on the trade deadline for today. We have plenty of time for game reactions over the next couple of months. As we lead into the playoffs, we have a contender rankings video with Kevin o' Connor that is finally happening next week. Kevin had to reschedule because he got sick and then we were going to go this week, but then I was like, nah, it doesn't make sense with the trade deadline. So we decided to push it to next week so we can rank all the teams in the context of the deals that were made before this deadline. So that Kevin OConnor contender rankings video will be on Wednesday next week. And then during the All Star break, we're going to do some big picture stuff too. We'll do rookie rankings, we'll do MVP rankings and we'll do. We'll talk a little bit about this upcoming draft lottery. I'm really starting to buy Darren Peterson stock. I want to dive into him and AJ debona and some of the other guys at the top of this coming draft. But then after the All Star break, we're really going to be diving back into games and studying these teams closely to get a good feel for them as playoff teams. But for today, again, trade Mailbag let's get started with Giannis. I have three kind of Giannis related mailbag questions that I want to get into. Here's the first one. Giannis staying isn't the end of the world like the media makes it out to be. The only reason Giannis hasn't had a deep playoff run since 2021 is injuries to him and his co stars. Giannis should bring shouldn't ring chase like KD and Harden hurting his career. Giannis is great enough to attract players like LeBron and Cleveland and the front office has shown to be capable of making a championship roster. I hope he stays the rest of his career. I think this is straight up delusional down the line, like acting as though like the Dame Giannis Bucks were going to go win the title and the injury is what knocked them off. That team was incredibly flawed. They haven't even won a playoff series since 2022 and it was the only playoff series they won since they hoisted the trophy. The idea like LeBron literally left Cleveland in large part because he couldn't attract somebody there and he was a top tier superstar still best player in the world and like legitimately the first or second best player of all time and he was having a hard time recruiting players to Cleveland and it was a big part of why he went to Los Angeles. So like this is like straight up delusional and like everything that went down after the deadline yesterday was so cringy to me with Giannis and the Bucks, like the making fun of shams for example. Like every NBA reporter of any level of reputation was covering the Giannis saga. It was real. They were seriously canvassing the league for potential trades. So like you're not fooling anybody. Giannis is like I'm not leaving post except for that. You would if it was the right situation and if they had enough to pay the Wolves. And then like well what if you leave this summer? Like does that like, like that? It was just so cringy. And then he has this Instagram post where he says legends attract and it just came off as super lame after the Whole trade saga. And again, it's completely delusional. Like you're, you're not LeBron. You're 31 year old star starting to fall apart physically in a city that like LeBron was in and he had to leave because he was having a hard time recruiting anybody. And then finally, Shams reports that the Bucks truly believe they can build a contender this summer about around Giannis in Milwaukee. I. I'm just th. This, this saga is so tired, man. Like you guys all refusing to acknowledge reality is what's going to sabotage both of your futures. Do you want to end up trading Giannis for the Anthony Davis package here in a couple of years? Cause that would set the franchise back Giannis again. You've won one playoff series since you won the title. How much longer do you want to keep playing for a team that has no shot to win? This whole thing is just super lame to me. Nobody's buying that this trade saga was fake. It was real. You just backed out. You're both, you both like kind of half committed to it and then took a step back. Like, you guys realize Giannis could have come out to the media two weeks ago or a week ago and been like, I'm never leaving. But no, that's not what happened. It's been mixed messaging and kind of weird passive comments about whether or not he's going to have an opportunity to win. And he definitely wants to stay, but he definitely realizes he probably should go. And it's his. It's wish washy. It's not committed. I'm a legend come to me. I'm never leaving. It's like this weird wish washy thing where now you're trying to plant your flag in that territory. And again, now, now that you guys have backed out, out of all the deals, now you want the hometown loyalty legend card. I just thought it was tone deaf. Next one, Jason. It's not really complicated. Giannis enjoys his life in Milwaukee. He's deeply rooted to the city. He would like to stay put and have a competitive roster to play with. Meanwhile, the front office and ownership have been dead silent. Clearly they had some conversations and Giannis is hoping to see a plan executed to build a competitive team around him. The narratives that he want to leave are blah, blah, blah. Just that, narratives. He's never stated that in 13 seasons. He's easy to please. He just wants a team that can compete. Get Rivers out of here this summer and work on free agency. Move some guys for draft capital. Enjoy the lottery pick. It's not Complicated. He won with Middleton and Holiday. He simply needs committed, selfless, consistent teammates. He doesn't need Jokic or Shay or anyone on that language, a wavelength to compete, just competent staff and teammates. Try and see past the rumors. Watch him interact with Bucks media, focus on the facts. Again, nobody's buying this. Nobody is buying it. When you look at this situation in Milwaukee, he very clearly, at any point in the last couple of weeks could have stepped forward, forward and been like, I'm never leaving. And he did not. He has for years now made these kind of passive comments about whether or not he would leave Milwaukee if the situation was right. There have been plenty of opportunities for him to dispel this rumor and he has not done so. After the deadline when the bell rang and it was over, then he comes out and goes like, I'm not leaving. It just feels like it is exactly that. It's a narrative. It's Giannis trying to control the narrative. Him and the Bucks went out and looked this summer. There was no combination of perfect spot for Giannis plus the return that the Bucks were looking for. So both of them pulled back and now you're trying to pretend like it didn't happen. Like, watch him interact with Bucks media. Focus on the facts. Like, if you actually watch Giannis's interactions over the years, there has not been a definitive I'm never leaving, I'm retiring as a buck. We are going to figure this shit out. If he would have done that, nobody would be talking the way that I'm talking right now. Nobody would be saying the things that we're saying. It has been the passive, wish washy unwillingness to actually commit to either staying a buck or let's move the fuck on, ok? And you guys get as much as you can for me so you can rebuild and I'm going to go play serious basketball somewhere. Pick a lane. Pick a damn lane and people will stop playing these cards. But like this, this whole, like this move from some of these Bucks fans and from and from Giannis and from the front office to be like, actually, this is what we were doing the whole time. Nobody is buying it. There's not a single person that's buying it. Last, last one. Maybe people should take him at his word when he said he says he wants to retire a buck. I hear from everybody else as to what he wants from. All I've heard is that he wants to retire a buck again. He could have come out last week and been like, I'm never leaving. I I'm retiring a buck Put your trade packages away. I'm staying here. And he didn't do that. So guess what? Nobody's buying your shit. So I'm kind of done with it. Pick a lane, Giannis. Stay a buck forever and say you're going to do it or go move on so that all of us can move on as well. Next question with the Wolves trades, how does this change their rankings for a championship? So here's the thing. I actually already had the Wolves as a top tier contender. They weren't a top tier contender in my last list, but I've been, as you guys know, trying to play in this contender rankings with Kevin o' Connor for a few weeks now. And I had already put together a preliminary, preliminary list and I've talked about it on the show. I look at the Wolves as a legitimate top tier contender. The main reason why is I just think they have the combination of perimeter athleticism and physicality with rim protection that you need to win four playoff rounds defensively and then on the other end of the floor, the combination of size, ball handling and shooting that you need to break down the best defenses in the league. So I already liked him in that regard. Now I look at their rotation and I'm adding IO Dunmu in the spot where we're getting a lot of Mike Conley and Jaylen Clark minutes, two guys that have both been making less than a third of their threes. And Mike, you know, obviously struggles with the athleticism and physicality at this point in his career. Jaylen Clark has been a guy that's really helped anchor some of their defensive units, but such a bad offensive player that IO Dsuno is just nothing but a massive upgrade. So it certainly will help them a lot. The kind of thing that I think it will work quite a bit for them in their advantages in like the OKC matchup. So for example, a lot of times when you're breaking down OKC's defense, you have to do it incrementally. Why? Because they're so good at rotating. So when you play against bad defenses, you're going to run that first action hit that first drive and the guy's going to help and there's going to be a wide open shooter and you're going to throw the wide open kick out pass and the guy's going to shoot a three and it's because they're not as on a string defensively and the gaps are bigger and you can get straighter line drives and it's just easier to break them down right against the elite defenses in the league, not only is it harder to get that first initial advantage, but when you do, they're better at rotating and they have more length and athleticism. So those windows are smaller. And so all of a sudden it becomes the kind of thing where you have to break down defenses incrementally. Meaning, like get a little bit of an advantage, grow the advantage, grow the advantage. And maybe on that third or fourth attack in the possession, you can get a decent look off, right? And even then, a lot of times against the best defenses in the league, you're not getting open threes, you're not getting open layups, you're getting advantages where score has to hit some sort of tougher shot. Maybe it's a contested catch and shoot three, maybe it's a three off of a sidestepper step back move against the closeout. Maybe it's racking a closeout and hitting a mid range jump shot or a floater. Maybe it's, you know, you finally just get a matchup that you like and that guy's got to go one on one and score. And so adding a high level offensive talent, again, that's what IO to Sunu is. And that's why I was so excited about him coming into the, the deadline. I just think I.O. is a, a very well rounded offensive player who can hit, pull up jump shots from a variety of spots on the floor that can really pressure the rim and finish well when he gets there and just brings a, a higher level of, of offensive polish. I, I, I think that, you know, when you look at last year's team and how important Nikhil Alexander Walker was and they're different players, like Nikhil was very good for Minnesota last year and has actually been even better offensively for Atlanta. But I think this version of IO DSUNMU is better than last year's version of Nikhil Alexander Walker. Offensively, I think Nikhil Alexander Walker was a better defensive player than I Odesun Musu, it's a different type of player, but you're replicating that depth and bringing more offensive polish, which is where I think they actually need more help when they get into those big moments in these big playoff series and Anthony Edwards is better and Jaden McDaniels is better and Rudy Gobert is better and that's what you're looking at with this group as I consider them a top tier contender. I am incredibly excited to tell you guys about our new partnership with Vuori. Those of you guys who are familiar with Vuori have noticed that I I wear it on the show and I have done so for years now, almost every single day because it's become a workhorse for me. And that's why I'm so excited about this partnership. I've actually been advocating for this behind the scenes for a while. It's a product I really believe in and I'm really excited that we get to partnership with them now. My journey with Vuori started because of a very simple problem. I'd wear shirts on the show and then after I'd watched them four or five times, they would just kind of degrade and turn into something that wasn't anything close to what I had originally purchase. And so I wanted to invest in quality clothing that could become my workhorse for my daily life. And that is exactly what Vuori is. From the Sunday performance sweatpant that I wear around my house all the time, that's super comfortable, that even now that it's cold in Colorado and I go play basketball, I can literally play basketball in the same sweatpants to the Sunday performance shorts that I play basketball in. My favorite thing about Vuori is all this stuff. All this clothing is so perfect for the active lifestyle that I live, but it's all so high quality and so attractive looking that I can wear it in formal settings. I live in this stuff every single day and I'm so excited that we have the opportunity to partner with them now. Vuori is an investment in your happiness for our listeners. They're offering 20% off your first purchase. Get yourself some of the most comfortable and versatile clothing on the planet@vuori.com Hoops that's V u o r I.com H o o P S Exclusions apply. Visit the website for full terms and conditions. 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- [17:45]
Kaylee Humphries
This month, iHeartRadio is celebrating the stars of the 2026 Winter Games. Training out of Carlsbad, California, Kaylee Humphries is the definition of a track legend. Already one of the most successful bobsledders in history, she returns to the driver's seat for Team USA with her eyes locked on the podium. Navigating the twisting ice at 80 mph requires nerves of steel and perfect precision. As the race reigning monobob champion Humphries is back to show the world that she still owns The Fast Lane for more Winter Games Gold Search olympics on.
- [18:14]
Jason
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- [19:15]
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- [19:40]
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- [20:28]
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- [21:30]
Jason
All right, couple, we have two warriors related questions Jason where do the warriors go from here? Another wasted year of Steph Curry. The warriors have no chance of winning the title. Draymond is not the same player do they pivot this off season with from Dre and hope Jimmy comes back at some point next year, how do you envision them maneuvering the off season? So I'm not going to say that it's out of the realm of possibility that if the right opportunity pops up this summer that the warriors wouldn't jump on it. But I want to take take you guys back to something I said in yesterday's show, which was when we're talking about the attitude that the warriors and the Lakers had which was, let's say, save our high value assets, let's make small moves on the margins stuff with second round picks hunting a distressed star like Jimmy rather than a star that might cost them a couple of first round picks, right? Like doing everything on the margins. Their reasoning was, you know, they don't believe in LeBron and Steph. They don't believe in their ability to. We were talking about that with the the Lakers as a corollary, if you remember yesterday, like those front offices, those ownership groups don't believe in those stars, right? And so because they didn't believe, they worked on the margins and they waited and then with each passing year their stance was like entrenched even further because the players older, right? So like, if you're going to sit on your hands because Steph is 37, for example, and not make a super aggressive move and then you did it again when he was 38, next year Stephen turns 39. So why would they suddenly be like, okay, here's the first round picks when Steph's going to turn 39 in March of next season, right? So like, I'm not going to say it's out of the realm of possibility, but I think them moving Kaminga and moving salary and not spending a single first round pick and actually taking a pick back for a player and Trace Jackson Davis is a pretty strong signal that, that they're not spending anymore on this core. So like, if I was a Warriors fan, I, again, it's not out of the realm of possibility, but I would not get my hopes up. I think it's more likely than not that they continue to work on the margins and work for cheap for the rest of the Steph Curry era and save all those picks and, you know, see what happens down the line. You know, it's kind of funny because I was actually thinking about this yesterday. The, the, the thing that I constantly get into disagreements with when we start to discuss assets is this idea that first round picks are guaranteed to become good players and they're just not. Like, like I thought the Memphis Grizzlies blowing up was a perfect example of this. And San Versini, my buddy who covers the leaky lives out in Melbourne, he, he tweeted something about this after the deal and I thought it was really fascinating. He was talking about how like Memphis has to blow up their team because, you know, even though Jaren Jackson brings a lot of talent to the table and Desmond Bane brought a lot of talents to the table and Dylan Brooks obviously was a big anchor for that team in the early 2000s when they were great. But the entire thing fell apart because their superstar, John Morant, because one guy that looked like he might be a star instead got worse and worse every year and had behavioral issues and had health issues. And so the whole thing fell apart. You actually hit on several picks, hit on several things in the front office. Sam pointed out accurately that the depth of talent on the roster, like those guys in that like 6 through 15 spot on the roster every year for Memphis have been talented guys that they've hit on and it didn't matter because they botched things with their star, right? And it wasn't even their Fault. It was John Morant's fault. Right? That's the thing that's so crazy about this, is like, you can go through four first round picks, you know, trade two of them for a role player, and if none of those first round picks end up popping the way that Steph Curry pops or even in the same territory as Steph Curry, you have no chance to win. Like, ultimately, you've got to have the guy. And what's been so frustrating about what happened with the warriors over the last few years and with the Lakers from their title to when Luca was acquired is they had the foundational guy that like literally 25 teams in the league don't have. And, and you know, like at least 22, 23 teams in the league have like no shot to win because they don't have that guy. And you're sitting there thinking about whether or not this first round pick is going to amount to something. And again, like all of your first round picks that you got from those gap years, from the injuries in 2019 and 2020 and 2021, like from those gap years, none of those dudes, not a single damn one of them even sniffed star potential. Not, not one. And you had top 10, you had multiple top 10 picks in that stretch. Not a one of them panned out to be a star. And you're looking at all these future first round picks as the future of your team. And like, that's what's so frustrating is like, if you have no shot, like let's say it's Steph had blown out his knee two years ago, then yeah, by all means you have no shot. You're trying to build through the draft and you have to play that lottery game and you have to take your chances on the guys that might pan out and might not pan out and you have to play that game. But you had Steph, you didn't have to, you had the guy. You could have turned those unknown risky commodities into a known commodity like a Pascal Siakam or an OG Anunoby when those times arised. And they just, they never put their cards in the middle, their chips in the middle, when those opportunities arose. And so I just think it again, I, I, I think that at this point we're so far along, I'd be shocked if they suddenly decided to start making those kinds of moves. Hi Jason, huge fan. And your segment regarding the warriors utter failure to go all in or at least provide enough assistance for Steph, who was slash is still in his prime after the championship from 22 because they dared not to believe him. Really hit the nail on the head and really hit for me. But it also got me thinking. Has Steph been a victim of his niceness? Should he have pushed, pushed much harder to get actual chances to still compete for championships in the past few years? Should he have put more pressure on his organization and threatened wanting out if things didn't change for the better? I realize that's not who Steph is, of course, and we lauded and admire him for being such a wonderful type of superstar overall, but was it, in those circumstances, actually a flaw once the organization itself didn't believe in him anymore? Thanks again, huge fan. Thanks again for the kind words and thank you for supporting the show. This is a really interesting point, and my take on it is like, I think it does come down in a lot of ways to your personality, and I just won't criticize a player either way. So I think that your circumstances are unique. Steph had some rough years early with the warriors, but for the most part in Steph's career, the warriors have been very, very good at putting the talent around him to compete for championships. I mean, two of the titles he won with what I believe is the most talented roster in the history of the NBA. I mean, they won 15 consecutive playoff games at one point, right? So, like, they've done an overwhelmingly good job. So he's been less incentivized to look elsewhere. But I. There also have been times, mainly in the last few years, where you could imagine a universe where Steph, like, kicks and screams a little bit and tries to get something done. My thing is, like, I think it's defensible for a guy like Steph to be like, this has been an overwhelmingly good experience for me. I'm not going to rock the boat. I'm a warrior for life. You guys have been good to me. I'm going to be good to you. Will make this work. That's defensible. But I also think it's defensible for the LeBron types to be like, okay, I got drafted by the Cavs, and they wasted seven years of my career and never once put a single player next to me as good as the types of dudes that, you know, Steph Curry was playing with with the Warriors. And so he looks at the situation and goes, this front office can't do it. I'm going to leave. I'm going to put some pressure on Miami to surround me with talent. I'm going to put some pressure on Cleveland to surround me with talent. Lebron was. I almost look at it as, like, trust issues. Like LeBron, when he came into the league was so just disappointed with the performance of the Cavs front office and ownership that he was like, shit, these dudes are incompetent. I've got to be the dude who's kind of taking control of my own destiny and putting myself in situations where I have a chance to succeed, I think that's okay, too. With Steph, it's like the opposite. They were so good for so long that he kind of trusted them a little too much towards the end and it ended up costing him. And I would argue it. There's pros and cons in both directions. I would argue that LeBron's kind of like, agency, so to speak, him kind of taking control of his own situation has hurt him at points in his career, and I'd argue it's helped him at points in his career. And similarly with Stephen, his loyalty has helped him in points in his career and it's hurt him over the tail end of his career. My whole thing is like, have sympathy for both sides. Like, to me, when I look at a player like, if you get drafted as Victor Wembanyama by the spurs and they do an unbelievable job building around him the way that they have over the course of the last few years, like, it kind of makes sense to me that Wemby would go, I'm going to stay here forever. Right? But if you get drafted into a shit situation and your front office shows no ability to build around you, I'm okay with a player being like, nah, I'm taking control of my own destiny here and I'm going to figure out a way to make my situation better. I just, I sympathize with both approaches and I think for the most part it's unique to the situation that you're in. Next question. Mailbag From a Heat fan, what do you make of the fact that the last time Pat Riley pulled an undisputed whale was LeBron 16 years ago? I did feel really bad for Heat fans yesterday on a couple of different fronts. One, because they just like Golden State and just like many others, have consistently held out for Giannis, and it just hasn't worked out. And they've missed out on some other high level players as part of that process. They're not out of the mix yet. They could still theoretically get involved in a Giannis sweepstakes this summer, although I think it's going to be a lot more competitive and who the hell knows, Maybe Giannis and the Bucks are going to pull another. Like, you know, oh, we're, we're canvassing. Actually, never mind. I'm staying here forever. Like, who the hell knows what the Bucks are going to do this summer and what Giannis is going to do this summer. But for the Heat, I was disappointed for Heat fans just because this is the latest example of them kind of missing out on the next guy. But most importantly, like they had some players so say, for instance, you missed out on the Giannis deal because you didn't have enough draft compensation station, for example. Like, I am kind of disappointed that they didn't look at this team that has very little chance to win and go, why don't we sell off some of these parts for something and see if we can't make a move at some point this summer to bring in that guy, you know, like it might be, you know, flipping Andrew Wiggins for three or four seconds or something like that. I, I don't know if there was a first round pick out there for him. That's always hard to tell with the market. But like, I'm surprised they didn't look to move some of their, you know, desired players just so that they could be in better position to try to make a move. But like instead they're just kind of threading that middle of that area again where they're missing out on the stars and not selling the parts that they could sell for value. And so they're just kind of continuing to sit in the middle here. And I just, I hope for Heat fans that the, that they finally do something to kind of shake things up at some point in the next year or two. Do you think the Pistons made a mistake not trying to find another above average score? I know best case scenario is probably mpj, but even someone on a slightly lower tier than mpj. I know we're first in the east, but it feels like we missed out on making the roster more dynamic and just got rid of Ivy for no reason. I totally agree with you. I, I'm not going to sit here and pretend like there's no upside to the Pistons deal. Kevin her and in theory with Duncan Robinson can recreate some of that. Malik Beasley, Tim Hardaway Jr. Dynamic with shooters, although Herder just hasn't shot the ball well this year, but maybe K. Cunningham can set him up with some higher quality looks. But I looked at it the same way. I looked at it as a very small upgrade and getting rid of Ivy, a player that I actually like. And like, here's the deal. Maybe they looked at their cap sheet and they valued the, they looked at the situation with them eventually needing to pay, you know, a guy like a star Thompson and Jalen Duran's getting paid this summer and you know, obviously you've got Cade and there's all these like different like variables and they were probably just like, oh, well, we can't pay Jaden Ivy. My thing that, what I think that gets tricky is if I look at this Pistons roster when we've seen this kind of build before with the heliocentric start, he does need a secondary handler. He does need another guy that can really run the offense. Like, we've only really seen that work in the past with, in the context of Luka Doncic with a really high level secondary ball handler, whether it's Jalen Brunson or it's Kyrie Irving. Right. And so like, okay, so let's say you don't think that's Ivy. Well, who's going to be that guy? Right? And, and as we look at this particular season, yes, I'm a huge believer in the Pistons. I think they're a second tier contender. Big believer in them in the big picture because of all of their strengths, the depth of perimeter defense talent and physical perimeter defenders and interior physicality and Kay Cunningham's advantage creation. But I don't view them as a top tier contender in large part because one, they are a team that is benefiting in the regular season from an effort and energy standpoint. We see this all the time. A young team that finally puts it all together and they play a hundred miles an hour every single night and they just start racking up wins. Especially when you've got strong defense and rebounding foundation. Right? But ultimately you get into the postseason and everybody picks up their intensity and everybody, everybody picks up their game planning. And I think that this Pistons team's not going to have enough offensive skill. And so like, again, I get it. Maybe, maybe it's not Jaden Ivy, but like, who was going to be that guy? Like, if we don't know who was available either, it sounds like Michael Porter Jr. Wasn't available. But like, why weren't they in on IO D Soon Mo? Like, why didn't they try to get somebody to come in and bring some value as a second? I like, I like Danish Jenkins. It's been a nice kind of like boost for the Pistons this year. I don't think he's the guy that's going to be carrying as the secondary ball handler in the NBA playoffs. This year. So like I was a little disappointed too that they didn't do something more aggressive again. Like it's so it's easy for me in December to be like, the Pistons should trade for Michael Porter Jr. If MPJ is not available, he's not available. And I don't know what the discussions were. I don't know if that was just Brooklyn jockeying and a negotiation and maybe the Pistons could have got him for two first round picks or something like that. We don't know what the deal was, but I do know that I odu was available for four seconds and that's a high level offensive player that can run action and shoots the shit out of the three point out of the the ball from three. Like there's a lot of value there that he could bring. And a team like Minnesota looked at it and goes, we're close. Let's go get IO to sumu and make ourselves closer or maybe put ourselves into a different stratosphere. And Detroit to me is playing it safe. And look, that's fine, but like I, I don't think the Pistons are a top tier contender. I would have considered them seriously if they had been more aggressive at this deadline and they just weren't. And so in that sense, like I was a little disappointed, but who knows, maybe this ends in them losing in the conference finals and then they do something big this summer and then they have a better opportunity, but they're, you know, with how much of a bloodbath the west is and how open this east is, I'm just surprised Detroit didn't get a little more aggressive in this particular deadline. Today's show is brought to you by presenting sponsor Hard Rock bet, Florida's sportsbook. We talk a lot of hoops on this podcast, but there's nothing like big game week on hard rock bet. Seattle is a 4 1/2 point favorite over New England for games like this. Basic bets just don't cut it. Hard Rock Bet is loaded with special props that you can't find the rest of the year. Scoragami Opening kickoff Touchback. All of the off the wall bets that make every snap matter. These props only come around once a year, so you might as well have some fun. 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Jason
Okay, I lied.
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Lavarrington
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- [42:50]
Jason
What do you think? If you're running the Hawks for the next two or three years, given the current roster draft picks in cap space, they're turning into a really funky team. It's interesting. One of the reasons why I was high on the Hawks coming into the season was the combination of like all of these athletes that can do all of this stuff on the perimeter and in transition and even at the rim, you know, like, like I think Moay and Ana Kongu at times have been a really impactful defensive duo with their ability to cover ground and, and shrink the floor on guys, right? But like it was that in combination with Trey Young because you need to have an offensive talent that can consistently break down the defense and generate quality shots. And look, it didn't work for a variety of reasons. Chris Ops Porzingis was injured, Trey Young was injured. When Trey Young was healthy, they weren't able to play defense overall the entire season. I think Trey got too much blame for the defense. I think the wings and forwards deserve a lot more blame for what's going on defensively with this team and their inconsistency there. Guys like Jalen Johnson not being good on defense, guys like it just hasn't come together, right? Well now you remove Trey Young from the equation, you remove Kristaps Porzingis from the equation, you add another flawed forward to the equation and yes, Nikhil Alexander Walker has had a really nice year offensively, but he's not about to lead you to the promised land offensively. And so I see these two kind of like clunky fit forwards in Kaminga, in Jalen Johnson and I'm, I'm high on Jalen Johnson's potential. But I've talked about this with you guys on the show already. To me, Jalen Johnson is years away from being like a real dead serious good basketball player. Has to improve as a self creator, has to become a more consistent defensive player in his effort and focus, especially off the ball if he's going to be able to play a serious role on a serious team. And this team has no high level ball handling, like none of it. CJ McCollum is the closest thing and he was available to you at that price point for a very specific reason. And so to me the Hawks have to have a plan to get that guy and I don't know if it's going to be picks and Kaminga and some filler for a star at some point down the line or if they're just banking on Jalen Johnson becoming that guy. I like Jalen Johnson. I don't think he's going to be an offensive engine anytime soon. I think he's years away, if that's even in his ceiling. Right. So like as far as I'm concerned now, the Hawks are in like a completely different phase than they were last summer where they're, they've got to figure out what their top end ball handling is going to be and they've got to have a plan whether that's the draft or targeting a specific star. But you're dead on arrival in the NBA if you don't have a guy who can consistently generate advantages and even the great defenses in the history of the league that have won championships, they have an advantage creator, somebody that breaks the defense down. And this Atlanta team is just so far away from that. And I, I don't, I don't see any like quick, easy path get there. We'll, we'll see what they end up doing in the next two or three years, but they're going to have to find a primary ball handler. I started rooting for the Lakers recently after the Luca trade, so I wasn't really familiar with Rob Polinka's game or the lack of one. The idea of basically punting the season and very likely letting LeBron and Rui walk for nothing just to chase a package offering the fourth or fifth best offer for Giannis feels absurd to me, especially with reportedly players like Wiggins and Jared Allen being on the market for attainable prices coming into the season. I was really high on the Lakers future with Austin's rise and Lucas ceiling. But now I'm honestly not sure any of it matters if Polinka is still the one running the team. How confident are you that Polinka can actually nail the margin moves needed to build a true Tier 1 contender around Luka and Austin soon? Do you, excuse me, do you see this cap space gambit working out by making us land some game changing long term options like Watson? Or do you think the Lakers are headed towards being a perpetual top heavy, low depth, dark horse team with as long as Polinka is at the helm. So a lot, a lot of lot to get into there. First of all, no, I don't believe in Rob Polinka's ability to manage the situation. The this Lakers team has always in my time covering them been star focused and badly undervaluing the job that role players do to help you win basketball games. It has been a fundamental flaw with this franchise from the very beginning, and it's based on a basic misconception about basketball. When you actually look at teams like Oklahoma City, you think they've won because of Shea. You look at teams like Denver and you think they've won because of Jokic. You look at teams like Golden State and you think they've won because of Steph. And for the record, they have, in the sense that you have to have one of those guys just like Luca, you have to have a step, you have to have a Luka, you have to have a Shay, you have to have a Yokich. There's basically no example of a team that wins a championship in recent NBA history without one of those guys. The closest thing is probably the 2024 Celtics. And that team had five players that would have fetched $30 million on the open market at that point in time. And Tatum was probably still like the best player that wasn't one of those guys. Like, he was the best player on the second tier of superstars. And, you know, and they had Jalen Brown and they had Derrick White and they had Drew Holiday and they had Horford and they had Porzingis. That was the closest thing to it. So you do have to have one of those guys in all likelihood to have a chance to win the title. But it's that plus a strong basketball culture, culture organizationally that churns out high level role players. Golden State churns out high level role players. Oklahoma City churns out high level role players. It's one of those things that is a prerequisite to sustaining any sort of success in the NBA. You have to have a strong culture that values the little things and puts all of that together with a superstar talent. And the Lakers have just always been completely geared up and geared towards the superstar talent. Talked about this a little bit yesterday, but it's easy making a deal for Giannis. No one's going to criticize you if it doesn't go right. They'll just be like, oh, Giannis, what are you going to do? Pass on Giannis? Like the Lakers, if they make a move for Giannis, it's the easiest thing that Rob Pelinka will do in his time as the Lakers gm. Right. What's hard is building the rest of it. That's the hard part. The hard part is going down the roster and finding value on veteran minimums and finding value in the mid level exception. And you're pro Scouting department finding value in the trade market where you can flip two salaries that maybe don't fit what you guys like to do very well. For a specific salary that fits what you do really well. You have to dig into the scouting side of it and find the guys that have the high motor and have the high end, the high level of attention to detail when it comes to defensive schemes and being in the right spot and, and the ability to, you know, guard multiple positions and all these like, little things. Defensive rebounding, you have to dig into the weeds to build out the rest of a roster. That's, that's hard. And yeah, if you make a, like, if you trade a first round pick for a role player and it doesn't pan out, it does open you up to more criticism. You know, like no one's getting on the bucks for trading for Dame. Like you were trying to put a high level ball handler next to Giannis after he lost another first round series. Cause he struggles to create in the half court. So like they're sitting there thinking like, we need to get another guy. Dame tears Achilles. Yeah, it happens. It's shitty. But like, no one's looking at the bucks and being like, oh, they should never have traded for Dame. Superstar trades are the easiest thing that a front office can do. The trading for role players, it takes a lot more work behind the scenes and there's a lot more opportunity for you to be opened up for criticism. Now digging into the specifics, we don't know who's going to be available this offseason and so we'll address it when we get there. But the truth of the matter is there's not a lot of talent available in the free agent market. Like the only guy in the restricted free agent market that you can imagine the Lakers, you know, targeting is like a high level starter next to Luca and Austin is a Peyton Watson. Right. But like, I think you're gonna have to come really high to, to get Denver not to match. Like, I think Denver's gonna match up to probably as high as like 30 million. Like I think they're gonna, I think Denver would match and so I think they'd match and I think they trade Cam Johnson. So like, what are you gonna do? Pay like max money for, for Peyton Watson? Like, I, I don't, I don't know. I like Peyton. I think he'd be really good in a, in the short term as a role player and I think he's got some potential as a high level offensive player in this league that he's continued to flash throughout the season. But like, like, do you think paying Peyton Watson some enormous amount of money is going to be what turns things around? And if it's an afford, I like Peyton Watson in that 20 to 25 million dollars range. And guess what? If you sign Peyton Watson to a 20 to 25 million dollars a year offer sheet, Denver's going to match. And so again, like cap space is cap space. You could still trade for with cap space. So for instance, like if the Lakers wanted to make a move, let's just use Herb Jones as an example and they wanted to absorb Herb Jones salary, they could do it with cap space just like they could by sending out expiring contracts. So all of the flexibility is still there this summer. The cap space can be attached to draft picks or essentially the draft picks can be used to bring the player in and be absorbed into cap space. So like Rob still has a chance. That's why I wasn't critical of Rob for not doing much at this particular deadline. I don't think this team was worth heavily investing in. I think it made perfect sense to be like, eh, this isn't the year for us to go all in, so let's just do something small like get a shooter for a team that can't shoot and maintain all of our flexibility and we'll go into this off season and we'll attack this thing and they have picks. Like again, they've got effectively three first round picks depending on when they decide to make their deals. My thing is you better have a plan if you miss out on Giannis to move at least one or two of those first round picks to bring in high level starting level NBA talent to put around Austin and Luca, or you are dead on arrival again next season. Because this roster is utterly devoid of athleticism and shooting. And when LeBron's gone, you're losing another really high end talent in that specific case, right? Also, I think if you get a lot of talent, you have a higher chance of actually bringing LeBron back at a discount. But I don't think LeBron's coming back at a discount if you just have a bunch of mediocre dudes that you sign into cap space. So again, gotta have a plan. When we get to this offseason and we actually see what the landscape looks like, we'll kind of look and, and talk about some of the specific guys that might be available. But again, I'm generally of the opinion that Luca plus an elite rim protector and an elite 3 and D wing And a couple really good role players at the 3 and 4 spot is actually nearly as good, if not, if not as good or better as a Luca plus Giannis plus a bunch of veteran minimum guys type of, of payroll. So like, I, I just, I just think that the, the Lakers need to be doing a ton of work behind the scenes right now to identify the opportunities for high level role player talent to surround their stars with. Last question. Did the 76ers give up on Jared McCain too early? Is Sam Presti wanting a player from your team not enough evidence to not trade that player? So here's the thing. I think this more or less makes sense for both sides in the sense that I, I like Jared McCain, I like betting on shooting and I think Jeremy, I think when it comes to shooters like that, I would be a little hesitant to like compare him to some of the higher level shooters in NBA history that have like more size and more ability to hold up defensively and, and that just have more all around talent. Like McCain to me is a shooter, but he's not like a superstar type of shooter. Okay. So like if you look at him as just what would be a really high level role player on your team in the long run? You already have VJ Edgecomb. You already have Tyrese Maxey. Quinn Grimes has been playing really well and I think, I think, I would imagine he's part of their long term plans. And you have a shorter window because of the Embiid age thing. And it's great to see Embiid playing fantastic again, by the way. But because of Embiid's age and because you're going to have a hard time trading Paul George and he's, he's in the situation for now and you have Tyrese Maxi who's already reaching close to that superstar level, you're kind of operating in a shorter window. And so to me, a McCain who is kind of in a weird spot in your rotation with the rise of VJ Edge Como like almost single handedly won the game against the Lakers last night in crunch time, just being a wrecking ball on defense and hitting shots like if, if you like Maxi and VJ as your primary backcourt and Quentin Grimes is a good short term option for you at guard, turning McCain into a bunch of draft picks that you can then turn around and try to use to upgrade the team down the line, I think is a nice value play for Daryl Morey. And I fully support it. I like McCain. I don't think he's the guy that you hang on to irrespective of your surrounding circumstances. All right guys, that's all I have for today. As always, I sincerely appreciate you guys for supporting us and supporting the show. What a crazy week that was our eighth episode of the week thanks to our wild and bizarre trade deadline. Again, we'll be back Monday with power rankings, contender rankings with Kevin o' Connor on Wednesday. Next week, some fun stuff over the All Star break as we kind of go big picture and then we're putting our head down and grinding from the middle of February all the way to the middle of June. It's going to be crazy, but I'm excited. I this time of year always just just turns into an absolute grind, but in the in the most fun way because the basketball games get so entertaining. So I'm excited to get into with you guys. All right, I'll see you on Monday.
- [56:34]
Louisiana Hot Sauce Advertiser
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- [56:59]
Jason
Hey Donald, you're really flying on that treadmill. I'm trying to run as fast AS.
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Lavarrington
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Jason
Well, you better pick it up because now T Mobile has the fastest 5G home Internet according to OOKLA Speed Test. Really? How's this? No, T Mobile's faster than that and it's still just 35 bucks a month. Come on, faster. Whoa.
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Jason
You'll be alright. Just walk it off. Get on the fast track.
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Jason
Home Internet and it still starts at.
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Rob Gronkowski
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- [58:29]
Jason
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