Hour 1 - Blockbuster NBA trade

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Herd with Colin Cowherd – Hour 1: Blockbuster NBA Trade
Release Date: February 3, 2025

Introduction
In the premiere hour of "The Herd with Colin Cowherd," the hosts dive deep into one of the most shocking NBA trades in recent history: the Dallas Mavericks trading superstar Luka Doncic to the Los Angeles Lakers. This trade has sent ripples through the league, leaving fans and analysts alike scrambling to understand the motives and potential ramifications behind such a monumental move.

1. The Blockbuster Trade: Mavericks to Lakers Acquire Luka Doncic
Timestamp: [02:48]
Colin Cowherd opens the discussion by highlighting the unprecedented nature of the Mavericks' decision to trade Luka Doncic, a perennial MVP candidate and one of the league's brightest young stars. Jason McIntyre expresses skepticism about the move, stating, “This feels like an absolutely egregiously bad move” ([05:30]). The conversation quickly centers on the Mavericks' general manager, Nico Harrison, and his history of taking bold risks, such as the successful trade for Kyrie Irving that propelled the Mavericks to the Finals the previous year.

2. Analyzing the Mavericks' Decision
Timestamp: [02:48 - 07:50]
The hosts dissect the possible reasons behind the Mavericks' decision to part ways with Doncic. McIntyre suggests that concerns over Doncic's conditioning and potential injury risks might have driven the trade, noting, “The Mavericks are staring down the barrel of a $74 million a year contract, and he doesn’t defend” ([06:15]). Colin counters by emphasizing Doncic's unparalleled work ethic compared to other legends like Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant, arguing that trading such a dedicated player doesn't align with the Lakers' storied reputation for acquiring top talent.

3. The Lakers' Strategic Move
Timestamp: [08:32 - 15:00]
Rachel Nichols joins the discussion to provide industry insights, highlighting that Lakers' front office, led by Rob Pelinka, is known for making strategic acquisitions that set the team up for long-term success. She states, “Jason Kidd and Nico Harrison have had a vision since they’ve been here” ([08:17]). The Lakers' acquisition of Doncic is portrayed as a masterstroke aimed at building a dynasty, leveraging their existing star, LeBron James, to maximize Doncic's potential.

4. Fan Reactions and Market Speculation
Timestamp: [19:31 - 28:40]
The trade has elicited mixed reactions from fans. Mavericks supporters are devastated, as evidenced by protests and social media backlash, including a casket display at the arena and vandalism of Dirk Nowitzki’s statue ([50:34]). Conversely, Lakers fans are ecstatic, believing that Doncic will rejuvenate the franchise and enhance their championship prospects. The hosts also speculate on other teams that might have been interested in Doncic, such as the Boston Celtics, New York Knicks, and Miami Heat, discussing the potential for a bidding war that ultimately didn't materialize.

5. Comparing Doncic to Other NBA Greats
Timestamp: [32:01 - 43:32]
Colin and McIntyre draw parallels between Doncic and other NBA legends, emphasizing his unique talent and potential for greatness. They discuss how Luka's relationship with Nikola Jokic might influence his development, similar to Jokic's own transformation through conditioning changes ([37:36]). Rachel Nichols adds that if Doncic can emulate Jokic's commitment to improving his physical condition, he could elevate his game to championship levels, making the Lakers' investment worthwhile.

6. The Broader NBA Landscape Post-Trade
Timestamp: [43:32 - 50:35]
The trade not only reshapes the Lakers and Mavericks but also affects the wider NBA dynamics. The hosts touch upon other recent trades, like De'Aaron Fox moving to the Spurs to partner with Victor Wembanyama, signaling a shift in team strategies across the league. They also briefly discuss the potential for the Dallas Mavericks to remain competitive despite the trade, considering their depth and future draft picks.

7. NFL Segment: Myles Garrett's Trade Demand
Timestamp: [48:25 - 50:43]
Transitioning to the NFL, the hosts discuss Myles Garrett's recent trade demand from the Cleveland Browns. They highlight Washington's potential interest in Garrett, given his exceptional defensive prowess. Rachel Nichols emphasizes the importance of acquiring proven talent over draft picks, stating, “The known quantity is better than the pick” ([48:54]).

Conclusion
The episode wraps up with reflections on the transformative nature of the Luka Doncic trade. Colin Cowherd and his co-hosts acknowledge the long-term implications for both the Lakers and Mavericks, pondering whether the trade will solidify the Lakers' dominance or leave the Mavericks struggling to rebuild. They also touch on the emotional toll on fans and the overall unpredictability of such high-stakes moves in professional sports.

Notable Quotes:

• Jason McIntyre: “This feels like an absolutely egregiously bad move” ([05:30]).
• Rachel Nichols: “Jason Kidd and Nico Harrison have had a vision since they’ve been here” ([08:17]).
• Rachel Nichols: “The known quantity is better than the pick” ([48:54]).

Final Thoughts
"The Herd with Colin Cowherd" offers a comprehensive and engaging analysis of one of the NBA's most significant trades, blending expert opinions with fan perspectives. Whether you're a die-hard basketball enthusiast or a casual sports follower, this episode provides valuable insights into the strategic maneuvers shaping the future of the league.

Transcript

[Colin Cowherd]

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[Jason McIntyre]

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[Colin Cowherd]

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[Jason McIntyre]

We got the table.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yep.

[Jason McIntyre]

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[Rachel Nichols]

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[Jason McIntyre]

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[Colin Cowherd]

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[Jason McIntyre]

Now let's get this party started. You're listening to Fox Sports Radio all.

[Colin Cowherd]

Right, it is a Super bowl week and we will be in New Orleans Thursday and Friday. It is a wild Monday when we had probably the most staggering, memorable NBA or sports trade in a long time. Welcome into the herd. J. Mac joining me. It's hard to dissect what we saw yesterday because when you just said it out loud, it looked like the Lakers stole one of the top three players in the league and gave, gave up a very, very good player, but not much else. And LA does have a history of always getting the guy. The Lakers more so than even the, the Yankees get the guy. So they have found their guy for the Next, we think five to 10 years. And so let's try to dissect it. So Nico Harrison has for not very long been the general manager of Dallas and he's a risk taker. He did the Kyrie move, everybody criticized him. It worked. He made that big move at the trade deadline last year. It got him into the Finals. He's taken big swings, he's different. But this feels like an absolutely egregiously bad move. So why did he make the move? Well, let's start with this. I think the reason that Michael Jordan is the most popular basketball player of all time, Kobe Bryant's up there too, is that relentlessness, that work ethic. That's not Luka. He's often in poor shape and is a lousy defender. And he's hurt increasingly more and more and more due to his bad conditioning. So there's a little shack in Luca. And the Lakers moved off Shaq, right? They had a choice. They took Kobe, the relentless worker. So is that the reason they moved off him? The Maverick owners are staring down the barrel of 74 million dollar a year contract. And he doesn't defend. He's hard on teammates but won't play defense. There's a little Barkley, there's a little Shaq. He's not the hardest worker. The max contract now is punitive if you get the wrong guy. Maybe the owners look at Embiid's mess in Philly or the Kawhi saga with the Clippers and said new owners, no thank you. Not interested. Now that does not give you an excuse to give away Luca for one first round pick. But I do think if there would have been three first round picks, Anthony Davis and maybe an Austin Reeves. Okay, should we consider that phone call? I can make some sense of it because I don't think Luca is the perfect player. He has now had three calf injuries in four years. Same calf hasn't Played since Christmas, missed the last two training camps. There's stuff here. And clearly a general manager who, who's willing to take massive swings. And he is hit on the Kyrie move. It's been a hit. He hit on the trade deadline move. There's things here. I see Luca is being made out as the perfect player. And there's a little shack, a prodigy. But the Lakers eventually said, we're going to take the guy that works harder. I would not have made the trade. I don't like the trade, but I. But I get the Embiid, the Kawhi, the injuries, the lack of conditioning, these new max contract extensions, 74 million a year. What really bothers me though is the lack of resources they got back. Because I love Anthony Davis. I think he's a very good player. He's not offensively Luca, but he's a much better defensive player. And he's older. But the lack of resources is unbelievable. They got one draft pick. Rudy Gobert got four. Kevin Durant got something like nine. One draft pick. And if you're totally concerned about health and availability, then why trade for Anthony Davis? There were much better trade partners than the Lakers and they, they traded him in a vacuum. It's like they didn't tell anybody. It was one team, one first round pick. That's unforgivable. It's not even like they traded him. It's like they discarded him. He's like an old surfboard by somebody who's lived at the beach for 20 years and bought a new one. Like, I don't even understand it. Here's Nico Harrison. It's the resources and the lack of return that to me, just say it out loud sounds like an awful move. Here's Jason Kidd and Nico Harrison.

[Jason McIntyre]

As we turn the page, I think it's important to know that J. Kidd.

[Colin Cowherd]

And I, we've had a vision in.

[Jason McIntyre]

The culture that we want to create since we've been here.

[Colin Cowherd]

And the players that we're bringing in, we believe exemplify that.

[Jason McIntyre]

And you know, we think defense wins.

[Colin Cowherd]

Championships and we're bringing in one of.

[Jason McIntyre]

The best two way players in the league. It is a little shocking, but like in the sense we have to push forward, we can as a organization, as a team, we have a game to.

[Rachel Nichols]

Play and we have to be pros about it.

[Jason McIntyre]

But we understand what Luka has meant to the Mavericks and we wish him and his family the best in la. Also maxi and smooth.

[Rachel Nichols]

But we have to push forward and.

[Jason McIntyre]

We believe we have a team that can do that.

[Colin Cowherd]

All right. There's three primary reasons the Lakers stole him. Number one, he's 25. He Dalton Connect is 24. This guy's barely in the league. He is just a new kid. He's 25 years old. He's already got 50 playoff games and he's so gifted offensively. He's never really been pushed because he's been so good playing in Europe forever. Number two is he finally lands with a legend in LeBron James. And I mean, let's be honest about this. LeBron is so dedicated that he has forced corky players before. Anthony Davis was soft and J.R. smith was squirrely and Kyrie Irving was high maintenance and he got him to work. And number three is the Lakers are aspirational franchise with statues everywhere in the building. And the bottom line here is I think we're going to get a more dedicated Luca. Be sure to catch live editions of.

[Jason McIntyre]

The Herd weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the iHeartRadio app.

[Colin Cowherd]

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[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah. Being a football player with plaque psoriasis can be challenging.

[Colin Cowherd]

My skin gets flaky and itchy, so.

[Jason McIntyre]

My doctor told me about a pill, otesla. It works from the inside out. OTESLA is a prescription medicine used to treat adult patients with plaque psoriasis for whom phototherapy or systemic therapy is appropriate. Appropriate OTESLA can help you get clearer skin after just four months. Dallas is an OTESLA patient that has been compensated for his time. Don't use OTESLA if you're allergic to it. Get medical help right away if you have trouble breathing or swallowing, swelling of the face, lips, tongue, throat or arms, severe diarrhea, nausea or vomiting, depression, suicidal thoughts, or weight loss can happen. Tell your doctor if any of these occur and if you have a history of depression or suicidal thoughts.

[Colin Cowherd]

Talking to my doctor about a pill.

[Jason McIntyre]

Was a total game changer.

[Colin Cowherd]

If you're struggling with plaque psoriasis, talk to your doctor about Otla. Visit otezla.com for more information or call 1-844-4-T E Z L A for prescribing info, info about cost and more.

[Jason McIntyre]

All right, we're back here on the Herd. They had to go to the bullpen. Colin not feeling great. Big weekend in Chicago. He's back, and he's just chilling out right now in his dressing room. Hopefully back tomorrow. So I'll step in now and take the baton regarding this. Holy cow. Lakers trade. Yes, we will get to Miles Garrett, who about 30 minutes ago demanded a trade out of Cleveland. We'll get to that. A lot of stuff happening. Super bowl week here. Very excited. I had a. I had a hot take that I'll fire off here regarding the Mavs and the Lakers trade that shook the NBA world over the weekend. And it was operating out of a place of fear is the worst place to operate out of. And I feel like that's what the Dallas Mavericks did here. Okay, they were afraid of giving LUCA the Supermax contract. 345 million. They were afraid because of why? Because his conditioning. The guy's always out of shape. Luka shows up. There were reports he was playing close to 260 pounds this season before the cap strain. Fear. They were worried that Luka would never really get his act together off the court. You guys have seen the video from the NBA playoffs this year or this past season where Luka was celebrating with a beer and adult beverage after the game, celebrating a big victory. And Michael Finley, the assistant gm, just rolled up and casually Here it is on the screen and off. This one casually just grabbed the beer from Luca. Luca, that's his father, I believe, in the black shirt. And look at Luca's face. He's just like, wait, wait, what? But they're. They're in a good mood. They're excited. Hey, we just won. Luca just brushed it off. But you could tell from that video it felt like the beginning of the end. I believe that was May 31st of last year. And again, the Mavericks were just simply worried. They were concerned that Luka Doncic would never be that physical specimen, the guy who was working out 247 like LeBron. You guys have seen the videos on his Instagram. And they decided, let's just get him out of town. Now, obviously there's a mini revolt among Mavs fans right now, but Dallas, I'm not going to totally poo poo the trade from their end. Yes, I saw multiple people grading the trade. Lakers got an A, obviously. You got a generational talent, you get an A. A lot of people gave the Mavs an F. But there is some excitement. Anthony Davis has a deep relationship not only with Jason Kidd, the head coach. Jason Kidd, of course, was with the Lakers during the bubble championship run. But Anthony Davis knows Nico HARRISON well, the GM of the MAVs. Nico used to be at Nike, and Anthony Davis was one of his signature clients, obviously after Kobe Bryant. But Nico signed AD before the draft, and they've known each other for over a decade. So there is that commonality between AD and the MAVs. And let's not forget Michael Finley, the assistant gm, the guy who took the beer from Luca. He's from Illinois. He was like a high school legend. Ended up playing Michael Jordan back in the day, one on one, Anthony Davis from Chicago. So they really felt comfortable with Anthony Davis. And I think it kind of makes sense from the Mavs on what they got in return. What I didn't like, and I'm sure you guys saw this over the weekend, was how could the Mavericks not open this up to the entire league? Why didn't they canvas the NBA and say, hey, maybe we could get eight first round picks? I mean, Mikhail Bridges. Mikhail Bridges to the knicks was like five first round picks. I mean, Luka's got to be worth 10, right? 12 first round picks. But it doesn't work like that. Guys. Remember, they had to ship Luca somewhere where they know he would sign. Nobody's going to try to rent Luca for a year and then just have him walk and give up the whole franchise. So I Actually narrowed it down. And I came up with only a handful of teams, three actually, that could have. Could have gone after Luca should there been a bidding war. And they're obvious, right? The Celtics in Boston. We know Boston has definitely the ammo. Luca would fit there. A winning franchise, one of the winningest in professional sports in America. They make sense. The New York Knicks make sense. The AKA Villanova Knicks, who doesn't love to play for New York. Luca would have clearly gone there and signed long term. And the other one, kind of a sleeping giant. The Miami Heat. Hashtag Heat culture. And yes, you can insert your jokes about fat Luca not fitting into heat culture, but trust me, guys, Pat Riley runs an amazing ship there in Miami. And I believe that the Heat could have been in play should Dallas have opened it up. But you guys know how this stuff works. Come on. There's no. The. The second that the league got wind of Luka Doncic being on the market, it would have been a total disaster. The price would have gone down. Luca would have checked out. Kyrie Irving and company. What are we doing? We're trading Luca. They would have been destroyed in the press. So technically, I think Dallas handled this well. Now I still think, obviously the Lakers won the trade. And if you're a Mavericks fan and you listen to Nico Harrison and Jason Kidd at the, at the podium, you're going to be a little sick to your stomach. Here's. Here's Nico Harrison talking to the media yesterday. As we turn the page, I think.

[Colin Cowherd]

It'S important to know that J Kid and I, we've had a vision in.

[Jason McIntyre]

The culture that we want to create.

[Colin Cowherd]

Since we've been here. And the players that we're bringing in, we, we believe exemplify that. And you know, we think defense wins championships and we're bringing in one of.

[Jason McIntyre]

The best two way players in the league. Yeah, no doubt about that. Anthony Davis. I mean, that's one of Colin's favorite guys. I mean, Colin has him like as an MVP candidate, top 10 player in the league. I have AD more in the top 15 range, but he's been incredible this weekend. Now we need to move to the Lakers portion of the program. And you guys know I coach my kids in sports, so we had back to back games yesterday. My son played and then my daughter. And yes, I am that guy who wore a Lakers T shirt with a Lakers sweatshirt over it. So when I take off the sweatshirt because I'm sweating on the sidelines like a maniac coaching middle school kids, I've still got Lakers gear on. And folks, I can promise you, if 30 people came up to me at the game. J. Mac, what do you think about the lakers? We got Luca 30 for 30. Everybody was stoked. Not one person was questioning this trade. This is rare that everybody loves getting Luka Doncic. And folks, I know Rob Pelinka has been one of the most maligned front office guys in the league. Los Angeles, for whatever reason, people cannot stand Rob Pelinka. Guys, I'm telling you, all he's done is push the right buttons. He has now set the Lakers up for success for at least. At least the next seven years. Maybe you want to extend it to 10. Fine. But they had no plan post LeBron. And I think Colin and I had talked about this on the show. Hey, man, can you build around Anthony Davis at 32, 33 when LeBron leaves? I just don't know that that makes sense. And you know, Anthony Davis has a lot of wear and tear on that, on that body. We know Charles Barkley famously has called him street clothes because he's always injured. I don't know how AD is going to fare health wise. Into his 30s. So that's why Dallas win now. Kind of works. We'll get back to Dallas later in the show. They're really built to hang with the best teams in the west. So why are Lakers fans excited? Well, I don't know. They just got a guy who was first team all NBA the last five years. I mean, he came into the season as the MVP favorite for my money. And you guys, you can look it up on my Instagram. June, last July, July 4th. I said, Luca, Luka Doncic, best player in the league. I've held this for like three years. I know Jokic is winning MVPs. And everybody loves Joel Embiid. Just give me Luca. He's unbelievable. And for the jabronis out there who want to say Luca doesn't play. And I get fired up about this because Luca's dad gave an interview over the weekend and it was translated from into English and you could see what he was saying. And he's kind of ticked off at this narrative that Luca's lazy. Folks, Luca Donches played 70 games last season. Average 35 minutes a night. Okay? Then he went to the playoffs and carried. Carried Dallas on his back. I know they had Kyrie and Derek Lively and P.J. washington. It was the Luca show. In 22 playoff games, he averaged 40 minutes a night. Points, rebounds, assists. He's doing everything. So he played 92 games last year. And we're con. We're concerned about Luca being fat and out of shape. This is total nonsense. Yes, occasionally, some of the European players. Jokic is in the same boat. They got that dad bod. Okay, I know Luke is 25 and has a dad bod. Maybe not great, but there's a quarterback here in the super bowl who's gonna be playing this week who has embraced the dad bod. His name is Patrick Mahomes. I don't know if you're familiar with his work, but he also is not a chiseled LeBron with six pack abs. That's just. That's not how Mahomes rolls. That's not Jokic and that's not Luca. They're three of the best players in their respective sports. Luka's gonna be fine. When you can build around Luca for the next seven to 10 years in LA and not totally have to worry about LeBron. You've got a secession plan and everybody knows, like, listen, LeBron, maybe he's got this year left. Maybe he's got two. I mean, I. You could stretch it to two if you want. And yes, I saw LeBron put up a triple double in MSG over the weekend. No AD beat the Knicks, who are one of the best teams in the league. One of the top five title contenders. LeBron put on a show like he could still do it. And him joining forces with Luka Doncic for a season. Folks, I got a couple buddies out here with season tickets to the Lakers. Trust me, I've already hit them up. Hey, let me know. Let me know when you need somebody to wingman into a game, because this is going to be one of the best shows in the league. LeBron and Luca, essentially a passing of the torch. And I do want to remind some people, okay? It was just last year that the Golden State warriors made calls to the Lakers about LeBron. They wanted to get in the LeBron business. Okay, LeBron is not done. He's still got gas left in the tank. I don't know how this Luca lebron thing is going to necessarily work initially, but Luca made it work with Kyrie Irving. There were a lot of questions. Hey, are Luca and Kyrie gonna work? They figured it out. They got to the finals. I know they got smoked by Boston. Boston was a way better team. So now you join Luca and LeBron and they're like, oh, oh, the potential's off the charts. And yes, I can hear you guys shouting. We don't have any defense. Luca don't play defense. Austin Reeves is a turnstile. LeBron can't guard anybody. Let's take a deep breath. The Lakers, by winning this trade, did not give up both of their future first round picks. So they still have ammo if they want to go out and chase a Miles Turner in Indiana. If they want to get Clint Capella, Nick Claxton, there are bigs around the league that could come in. I, I'm not saying the Lakers are winning the chip this year, but how can you not be beyond excited for the Lakers future with Luka Doncic? Okay, I know everybody. Well, not everybody. Some people on social media seem to think the league is rigged, which I guess is the buzzword in 2025, right? Kansas City Chiefs. Obviously nobody thinks the NFL's rigged or the NBA, but it's a funny topic, right? Boy Lakers boy Magic Johnson going back, James Worthy. How are they always getting great players? Shaq decided to pick the Lakers. Kobe Bryant famously forced his way to the Lakers by telling Charlotte, I will rather go to Italy and play. And they had to move on and say, fine, fine, we'll trade Kobe. And then they got Pau Gasol in one of the great heists in NBA trade history. And now look at this, look at this. The Lakers players acquired via trade. Wilt Chamberlain. Decent. Okay? He's a top 10 player all time. Jabbar, he's a top five player all time. Kobe Bryant, certainly a top 10 player all time. Pal Gasol. He's in the Hall. He's going to be in the hall of Fame where it is AD who has a title and is on track to be a Hall of Fame player. And now Luka Doncic, like guys, that list is unbelievable. At some point we gotta say, you know, maybe the Lakers just know what the hell they're doing in chasing stars, okay? And you look around the west and you're like, okay, I got Luca and LeBron and I'm supposed to be afraid of OKC. I got Luca and LeBron and I'm worried about Jokic and the Nuggets. Like I, I think the Lakers are going to firmly be in the mix, assuming health. You know, everybody's, everybody's fine. And I do wonder, you know, I mentioned Austin Reeves. He's my guy. Regular listeners and viewers of this show. No, I'm an Austin Reeves defender. Not sure how he really fits now with the Lakers. So I, I put a pause on my by the Austin Reeves jersey. Have not done that as yet. But Luca Doncha jersey will be next. I, I think it makes sense if you're the Lakers. You say, can we package Rui? We package Austin Reeves and that number one pick go big game hunting now. We've got a rim protector. I know people don't like it when the Lakers are on top, but this Luka Donches thing, I was grinning ear to ear. So Saturday night, I'm, you know, wife was out of town with her friend, and I'm. I'm in town with the kids. We're watching this movie, Air Bud. I don't know if you guys have seen this from, like, the late 90s. I don't even think our producers were born when this movie came out. And, you know, they need to go to the bathroom. So I just look at my phone and I've got this. Just a flurry of text messages coming in. And the first one is from this guy who played high levels of basketball. He's now a referee. J. Mac, I gotta ask. This seems too good to be true. How did we get Luca? And my first reaction is, wait, Luca Again? I'm watching Air Bud. I tell the kids, hold on, hold on. We gotta pause the movie. And I dive in. And for the next hour, I'm just riveted by this just unbelievable turn of events. It really felt like a dream, guys. It genuinely felt. Wait, did this really happen? Like, who trades one of the best players in the NBA in his prime? It's just an unfathomable turn of events. And we're going to have Rachel Nichols, longtime NBA insider. She's going to come on the set here next and talk about the Lakers acquiring Luca. The dynasty continues in la. Lakers exceptionalism. It's a thing, people. So we're back after this with Rachel Nichols talking Lakers.

[Colin Cowherd]

Be sure to catch live editions of.

[Jason McIntyre]

The Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific.

[Colin Cowherd]

Hey, it's Steve Covino. And I'm Rich Davis. And together we're Covino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio. You can catch us weekdays from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific, on Fox Sports Radio. And, of course, the iHeartRadio app. Why should you listen to Covino and Rich? We talk about everything. Life, sports, relationships, what's going on in the world. We have a lot of fun talking about the stories behind the stories in the world of sports and pop culture. Stories that, well, other shows don't seem to have the time to discuss. And the fact that we've been friends for the last 20 years and still work together, I mean, that says something, right? So check us out. We like to get you involved, too. Take Your phone calls chop it up, as they say. I'd say the most interactive show on Fox Sports Radio, maybe the most interactive show on planet Earth. Be sure to check out Covino Enrich live on Fox Sports radio and the iHeartradio app from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific. And if you miss any of the live show, just search Covino and Rich wherever you get your podcast. And of course, on social media, that's Covino and Rich. All right, let's get into it. Virgin Voyages. This isn't just another cruise line. This is redefining what luxury travel means. First off, all in voyage pricing, over $1,000 in value, Wi Fi, tips, entertainment, even dining at specialty restaurants. It's all included. No nickel and diming, no hidden fees. It's clear, simple and honestly how it should have always been done. And the cabins? Let's just say they're not your standard hotel on the water deal. They've got private terraces, virgin red hammocks, views of the open sea. It's a reset button for your brain. Now, here's what really sets them apart. No kids. That's right, adults only. Everything. Food, entertainment, activities tailored to what you actually want. And the destinations you're looking at the Caribbean this winter. And for 2025, 2026, they're hitting places like North America, Iceland, the Mediterranean. It's top tier travel for people who demand the best. Virgin Voyages isn't just a cruise. It's the future of adult vacations. Get on board, book [e-mail] or contact your travel advisor. All right, let's talk about Amazon prime for a minute. I've got mine. Do you have yours? Not just about one thing. It's a whole collection of services that help you get the most out of whatever you're into. If you're passionate about a hobby, a sport, or all sports in my case, or you just need to get things done fast. Prime. Amazon Prime's got your back. You can watch content, order supplies, listen on Amazon music. It's all included under one prime membership. Of course, we can all agree one of the best things about prime is the fast, free delivery. With prime, you can have what you need, deliver the same day. But it's more than that. Prime is a collection of excellent services. I love it. Amazon Music, listen to the tunes that keep you in the zone. Or this podcast. Whatever you're doing, working out on the road, prime doesn't just help you get closer to the things you care about. It helps you discover new things, too. Prime's always there to fuel your passion, make it just a little bit easier. So whatever you're into, it's on Prime. Visit Amazon.com prime now. Colin Coward here with pro tight end Dallas Goddard to share his journey with plaque psoriasis and how he tackles his symptoms with otla. Aprimolast.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah, being a football player with plaque psoriasis can be challenging. My skin gets flaky and itchy, so my doctor told me about a pill, otesla. It works from the inside out. OTESLA is a prescription medicine used to treat adult patients with plaque psoriasis for whom phototherapy or systemic therapy is appropriate. OTESLA can help you get clearer skin after just four months. Dallas is an OTESLA patient that has been compensated for his time. Don't use otesl. Allergic to it. Get medical help right away. If you have trouble breathing or swallowing, swelling of the face, lips, tongue, throat or arms, severe diarrhea, nausea or vomiting, depression, suicidal thoughts or weight loss can happen. Tell your doctor if any of these occur and if you have a history of depression or suicidal thoughts. Talking to my doctor about a pill was a total game changer.

[Colin Cowherd]

If you're struggling with plaque psoriasis, talk to your doctor about Otesla. Visit Otesla.com for more information or call 1-844-4-OTEZLA for prescribing info, info about cost and more. Whether you're ordering wings for the game, whipping up a seven layer dip or ordering pizza, there's something about football that makes me want to eat. And this football season, Uber Eats has the best deals for me on game day. Food no matter what I'm craving from two for one pizza to buy one, get one wings. Uber Eats will be dropping new deals each week all season long. I'm in Uber Eats, the official on demand delivery partner of the NFL. Order now for game day. Terms and conditions apply. See app for details.

[Jason McIntyre]

Back here on the herd, Jason McIntyre. Step it in for Colin Cowherd. Joining us now on the set, the great Rachel Nichols. FOX Sports NBA Insider covered the NBA forever. Rachel, how you doing?

[Rachel Nichols]

I am better than Colin apparently, who's sick. So you and I are healthy and that's, that's a good day for us now.

[Jason McIntyre]

And listen, great time, great day to be on on the show talking NBA. I mean, Rachel, you know, you talk to people around the league.

[Rachel Nichols]

Yes.

[Jason McIntyre]

Like what has been the reaction around the league since, you know, the earth shook Saturday night when the Lakers got Luka.

[Rachel Nichols]

It's really almost impossible to quantify the amount of shock that we have felt from every corner of the NBA. I have been covering this league for the better part of three decades. You have GMs, executives who have been around the league for 40, 50 years and have never seen anything like this. And part of it is the surprise of trading away a 25 year old who has made the five last all NBA teams, who's a perennial MVP candidate who took his team to the NBA Finals seven months ago. But in addition to that, even more so than the fact that they wanted to trade him away, it was how they did it. And I think part of that is the nitty gritty of NBA front offices. They're always interested in that aspect, maybe more than the fans. But how they did it has been a huge shock because it seems that the Mavericks, in trading away this incredible asset, left a bunch of other things on the table that they could have gotten for him. And really no one understands that.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah, it seems like the tipping point may have been, hey, we just got to the Finals. Luca comes back kind of out of shape. Then he has the calf injury again. There were reports he was close to 260. That's like miles Garrett size. I don't know. Do you get a sense that's kind of what precipitated this deal?

[Rachel Nichols]

I mean, I think it's a lot of things over a lot of years. And I will say we don't know everything. And I have to assume Nico Harrison is a smart guy, Jason Kidd is a smart guy. I know Jason wasn't directly involved in this trade, but in general, this is not a dumb team that has a history of terrible transactions. Right. So, you know, they obviously traded away a few guys under the Mark Cuban era you'd like to have back. But my point is that there must have been something that they knew that we don't know. What we do know is that, yes, there have been conditioning issues with him over the years. If he really is in the two 60s, that's nearly 20 pounds overweight. And we know that leads to soft tissue injuries, which Luca has had several of. In fact, he's out with one right now. So the idea that he might be perennially unavailable, whether he was sort of flouting team rules, whether there was a bit of sort of, hey, we've asked you to do this and you've refused time and time and time again, whether it's the arguing with officials that they've asked him to tone down and that has actually cost his team specific losses that you can point to. And I have to assume there's more to the story, right? So if you add all of that stuff up over all the years, I personally would still not trade Luka Doncic. I don't know what the unknown thing is that we don't know. So maybe that would tip me over as well. But in general, the idea of trading a 25 year old who really isn't even in his prime yet, you are a betting against the next 10 years of Luca's future. That is a heavy bet to make with a guy who has frankly been a prodigy since he was 11 years old and who you were incredibly lucky by like six strokes of luck to get him in the first place. You had had other free front agents, free front offices in front of you, you know, make decisions that they probably shouldn't have made just for you to get him. And the idea that they did and then decided to trade him away is shocking.

[Jason McIntyre]

So you did media longer than I have. But there have been people who've doubted us. I'm sure everybody in any job has been doubted. And, you know, you look at Luca, essentially the Atlanta Hawks were like, we like him, but we'd rather have Trey Young, Sacramento drafted. I believe it was Marvin Bagley over Luka Doncic. And now Dallas had him, he took him to the finals and they trade him. So that's three teams that have quit on him or passed on him, and he's only 25 and Dallas cost him over $100 million with the Supermax. Do you think all of this adds up to Luca maybe being more locked in and being like, hey, nobody believes in me. I'm. I'm going to get my. I'm going to get my butt in shape and take over. This could be a springboard to Luka for even more greatness, if that's possible.

[Rachel Nichols]

Look, if he does need a wake up call, this was it, right? If it really is a matter of, hey, he just needs to change his attitude, change his approach. If this doesn't wake you up, I don't know what will. And again, the Mavericks are betting against his next 10 years. The Lakers are obviously betting on his next 10 years, that he will be that superstar that they need to follow LeBron James, that he will get his act together in the ways that the Mavericks felt that he couldn't. And I have to think it's possible. Luka, also not a dumb guy. And in one fact, one of the guys he really is close with and looks up to in the league is Nikola Jokic, who went through a Little bit of the same thing. Obviously not with quite the attitude issues that were described around Luka. Again, I don't know. I'm not in the room, but Jokic certainly had a very laissez faire approach to his diet, right? And sort of the team would ask him to get in shape, and he really was kept drinking Cokes every day and all the other stuff and wouldn't really work out. And he just decided kind of going into the 2019, 2020 season that things had to change. And he had a severe alteration to his diet, to his workout routine, to what he did during this season. And it obviously paid off immediately. And it led him to multiple MVPs. It led him to become a champion. So if that happens to Luka, if Jokic pulls him aside and said, all right, now this is it, now it's time. If someone in his family or if Luka himself decides this is it, then we could see a very determined, very different player for the Lakers that the Mavericks and their fans are going to have to watch for the next 10 years.

[Jason McIntyre]

Speaking of Mavs fans. So I'm sure you've seen the memes kids crying with like six Luca jerseys next to them in their bedroom. It's understandable. However, there is a positive here. Anthony Davis is a plug and play guy now. You've got a lot of depth. He gets to play four right lively when he comes back. And then Gafford, the bigs, they're kind of built to hang with Denver. I think Max Christie, I know people are like forgetting him. He's a good defender. I think The Lakers are 15 and 8 since he became a starter. Like, there's a world where they can hang with SGA and okc. Like, sorry, SGA and okc. Do you think that Dallas, there's a world where they maybe get back to the finals this year?

[Rachel Nichols]

I mean, sure. I mean, no one expected them to get the finals last year, and they did it.

[Colin Cowherd]

So.

[Rachel Nichols]

So, yes, of course that kind of scenario is possible. And I don't think there's any question or not much of a question that they are a better team this year, this season with Anthony Davis in there than with Luca, who's had a ton of injury issues this year. However, that's this season, which lasts, what, four months? Four more months? I mean, come on. And by the way, they have other injuries on their team that they still have to deal with. Dallas does. But you cannot underscore, underplay anything what the next 10 years that you just traded away was. And look Luca was due for a supermax contract. He could have signed it as early as this summer. That also precipitated some of this discussion. Nico Harrison said as much during his press conference yesterday that, look, it's clear that they were nervous about signing him for $350 million and then getting into a situation with injuries or other things where they're in the Philadelphia Joel Embiid situation. Right. Or, oh, gosh, what are the Clippers doing with Kawhi Leonard now he's on a better contract than he was before, but still, like you're paying for a guy who generally hasn't been there for big stretches of the season. The fear of that was clearly a huge motivator. I would argue you could have still signed him to that supermax and then traded him a year later. There's a mandatory waiting period. But you could have traded him after that and you still would have gotten a ton of takers around the league. And by the way, if you had done that then you really could have opened up the bidding. Now the argument is they did a one team trade with the Lakers because they didn't want to sort of make a mess of the season stuff. You were talking about in the last segment that, you know, they wanted to not have that discussion of where will he go? And therefore being railroaded into only one or two choices. To me, that doesn't really hold because the Lakers traded for him sight unseen. The Lakers traded for him without knowing what kind of contract he would sign a year and a half from now. And by the way, I think if you polled most teams in the league, not all, but most, they would take a guaranteed year and a half of Luka Doncic, which is still left on his current contract right now, and say we can convince him that this is the place he wants to stay. Give us a year and a half. The Mavericks did it with Kyrie Irving.

[Jason McIntyre]

That's right.

[Rachel Nichols]

When they traded for him and only had three months to convince him, him, they traded for him near the trade deadline and then he was going to be a free agent that summer and they gave a bunch of stuff away for him and their goal was, hey, we think when he's here, he's got a great relationship with Jason Kidd. We can convince him to stay. And by the way, they did.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah.

[Rachel Nichols]

So the idea that Luka could have made a list and that, you know, they wouldn't have been able to have any takers if it wasn't his, quote, preferred destination, I, I personally don't really buy that. I Think Luka Doncic is such a unique talent and the idea that you would get him for a year and a half. Look what Toronto did with Kawhi Leonard, right? They were like, great, we've got him for a year. We hope we can convince him to stay, but even if we can't, it's worth it. And guess what? They couldn't convince him and it was still worth it. So. So I don't really buy the whole, hey, if you had opened it up and his preferred destinations and that would have put us in a worse position. I can't imagine it would put you in a worse position than negotiating with only one team and having that team not even give up its full arsenal. And again, this goes back to your first question of, hey, what are people around the league saying? It's the methodology as much as the actual trade itself. The Lakers had two first rounders. They could have given up and they didn't. They only gave up one. And I see from the Lakers side why they're A, thrilled about that and B, saying, hey, we don't know, he could go anywhere in a year and a half. I mean, I understand their argument to Dallas, if I'm Dallas, I am saying, that's great. We need both your picks to make this work. Otherwise I'm opening it up to the rest of the league. And I guarantee you, especially in a franchise where ownership really values having a star, that Lakers would have said, all right, all right, fine, here's the second pick.

[Colin Cowherd]

So.

[Jason McIntyre]

So do you think the Lakers use that other pick and maybe Austin Reeves, maybe Rui to go get a center? I know Maxi can kind of play center Marke Morris, but they're small ball guys. They're not protecting the rim. They're not stopping Jokic. No. Your thoughts? Do the Lakers make another move?

[Rachel Nichols]

I mean, they're in a great position to make another move now, right? Because before it was, I don't know. Do you get rid of Austin Reaves because of what he means to the team right now? Well, you don't, you don't need that anymore because you have Luka Doncic. And so I think that they are much more flexible. They still have a first round pick to give out. There is no question. A, they need a center presence and they need a defensive center. Because the downside of this trade that the Lakers just made is that they might score 200 points a game, but the other team might score 230. So, you know, they have got to get a strong defensive presence in the middle. And I Expect them to go out and do that because they have have assets now that they didn't even have before this because of now they have more flexibility with their roster and they still have the first round pick that should be in Dallas.

[Jason McIntyre]

So I'll get to the super bowl in a sec. But one other trade that went down, we haven't even touched on a De'Aaron fox in a bizarre trade goes from the Sacramento Kings to now the spurs playing with Wembanyama. They didn't give up Castle or Vassal. Like spurs look kind of dangerous. They're on the outside looking in now. Zach Levine, I'm his big Zach Levine guy. He goes to the Kings. You look at the spurs once they make a move and they will. Is this a team that could upset a Houston or a Memphis in the first round? I, I'm excited for Wembanyama.

[Rachel Nichols]

Yeah, absolutely. Look, I think and have been saying since before he was drafted, mark my words, people, Victor Wembanyama will be a top 10 player of all time.

[Jason McIntyre]

All time.

[Rachel Nichols]

Period. Oh, he could be a top 10.

[Jason McIntyre]

Player of the all time.

[Rachel Nichols]

I can, I can say that with much less certainty. I would put Victor Wembanyama ahead of any one other young player in the NBA in terms of my prediction of that. In fact, I put him ahead of, I don't know. I mean LeBron James obviously is ahead of that.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah.

[Rachel Nichols]

But there's very few guys I would put ahead of him in my all time prediction because I mean, look, he could get injured and, and obviously all bets are off. But the way his motor is, his talent, his alien form, quote unquote that we've never seen before in this league, his drive and the fact that he's in an organization that as you just pointed out, makes super smart moves, has a great coaching tree. Whatever happens with Greg Popovich going forward, he will clearly be around the team and therefore his people will be around the team. I mean, he is in the driver's seat of this entire next generation of the NBA. And Darren Fox, as far as I'm concerned, won the lottery in terms of getting to be the point guard who has the first major audition of hey, I could be this guy's partner for the next five to seven to 10 years. And the idea that you could get partnered as a point guard with Victor and you're basically saying, yes, sign me up for those championship rings, it's a great deal for Fox. It's why he targeted the spurs in this trade, saying that he didn't want to resign with Sacramento and yeah, San Antonio made a great deal as they do and as we would have hoped the Mavericks would have done with the asset that they had.

[Jason McIntyre]

Very good. I would ask about Zach Levine, but the producers will yell, we don't do kings on the show. You know that really weird. Not you, Ryan, but let's go to the NFL. So I grew up in the D.C. area and my parents would get the Washington Post and. And I would get it every morning. Read sports section. Rachel was one of the prominent writers Will bond court. I love. I love the Washington Post. And you obviously have covered D.C. sports for a while. The commanders just made an incredible run in the postseason. Cowherd did make that call. I got to give him credit.

[Rachel Nichols]

Look at my face.

[Jason McIntyre]

I know you're very excited, but I have to ask, the way it ended was rough. Eagles look good. Do the Eagles have a chance to, you know, thwart the three peat here that the Chiefs are going for?

[Rachel Nichols]

I didn't just work in Washington, D.C. i grew up in that area. So I am really genetically engineered to never say anything nice about the Philadelphia Eagles or anyone else in the NFC East. So as far as I'm concerned, chief, chief, chief, chief, Chiefs. Right. And look, I didn't like. The one thing I didn't like about the way the Chiefs have approached this season is right on the podium. After they won number two last year, they were already talking about three peating in number three. And I always think that's incredibly dangerous. It's not how you should be focusing on, you know, Bill Belichick. One game at a time, one day at a time. That sort of thing is how you stack up multiple championships. That being said, even though they've had a ton of close calls this season, they keep winning. And I am just not betting against Patrick Mahomes. I'm not doing it. And I'm especially not doing it against an NFC east team. Thank you very much.

[Jason McIntyre]

And I mentioned I wanted to start with Washington because we haven't got to the Myles Garrett stuff. It's such a busy morning. But I made a list before the show of teams that make sense for Myles Garrett, who demanded a trade from the Browns. And at the top of my list is Washington. I mean, you got the quarterback on the rookie deal. You can spend the defense. What they give up 55 to the Eagles. Miles Garrett is an exceptional player. I mean, Washington's drafting late, first round. I believe it's 29.

[Rachel Nichols]

Yeah.

[Jason McIntyre]

I mean, are you willing to part with the pick and whatever? Within reason, yeah. I mean, Myles Garrett would make a ton of sense in D.C. i'm always.

[Rachel Nichols]

A big believer as a sports analysis, sports analyst and sort of just as a fan frankly, too, is that the known quantity is better than the pick. I know a lot of GMs always love the pick. Give me the pick. The pick is full of possibilities. Guess what? You are betting if you prioritize the pick that that pick is going to be better than Miles. Guess what? I'm not willing to take that chance. I just want Miles.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah, yeah.

[Rachel Nichols]

Bring him in. Absolutely.

[Jason McIntyre]

And the other team I would have is a team out here that you know well. The Rams. Yes. Who love to swing for the fences. The GM in the front office. Very savvy. Do they. Do you. Can you see them making a move? One last push. Sounds like Stafford's in. Based on the late reports last week, do you think any chance the Rams get involved with a Miles Garrett who, you know is a transformational defensive player?

[Rachel Nichols]

Yeah, I absolutely do. First of all, they have a very savvy front office.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah.

[Rachel Nichols]

And they are more in the win now mode with Stafford than they would be if they had a younger quarterback who was, you know, just starting out. Obviously, Jaden Daniels is a younger quarterback, but that situation is a little bit unique and different. I absolutely think it would be smart for the Rams to get involved. This is a proven guy.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah.

[Rachel Nichols]

And again, that is hard to come by in any of these leagues.

[Jason McIntyre]

All right. Rachel Nichols, she wore red. Is the red for Washington or Kansas City?

[Rachel Nichols]

I'll leave that to you.

[Jason McIntyre]

I like it. Hey, thanks for rescuing me here in the final hour. You know, the first hour felt like a final hour.

[Rachel Nichols]

Can I say one more thing about the Mavericks and their fans? I think that's the other underrated part of all of this is that you mentioned the mouse fans and the crying. They actually had a casket out there at the arena yesterday protesting. And there were profanity written on the sidewalk in front of the Dirk statue. These people thought they were getting a Luca statue next to the Dirk statue. There's an expression, as I'm sure you know, Mavs fans for life. Mff L. That's the sign off. That's the tag that they put at the end of every social media post. This really shook the for life part of a lot of Dallas fans. And I do think that damage with the fans is something the franchise did not anticipate.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah.

[Colin Cowherd]

All right.

[Jason McIntyre]

Fifteen seconds over. Under one and a half titles for Luca with the Lakers.

[Rachel Nichols]

I don't know.

[Jason McIntyre]

Come on.

[Rachel Nichols]

I don't know, hit the over. I'm not willing to make that bet.

[Jason McIntyre]

Hi, I'm Arturo Castro, and I've been lucky enough to do stuff like Broad City and narcos and Roadhouse. And now I'm starting a podcast because honestly, guys, I don't feel the space is crowded enough. Get ready for Greatest Escapes, a new comedy podcast about the wildest true escape stories in history. Each week I'll be sitting down with some of the most hilarious actors and writers and comedians. People like Ed Helms, Diane Guerrero, and Joseph Gordon Levitt.

[Colin Cowherd]

I love storytelling and I love you. So I can't wait.

[Jason McIntyre]

Listen and subscribe to Greatest escape on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Colin Cowherd]

Hey, it's Bobby Bones. Join me and former NFL quarterback Matt Castle every Wednesday for our new podcast, Lots to say with Bobby Bones and Matt Castle. Between us, we have over 17,500 passing yards, multiple New York Times bestsellers, and one mirrorball trophy from Dancing With a Star. So where else are you gonna find a show with that much athleticism and football insight? We talk talk sports, but we talk pop culture and music and a little bit of everything. Listen to Lots to Say with Bobby Bones and Matt Castle on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, you guys, I'm Katherine Legg. I'm a racing driver who's literally driven everything with four wheels across the planet. And I've got a new podcast. It's called Throttle Therapy. This season, I'm competing in some of the world's most notorious racing events. Tune into my new podcast, Throttle Mortal Therapy with Katherine Legg, an iHeart women's sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Jason McIntyre]

Presented by Capital One, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports.

[Colin Cowherd]

What's up, everyone?

[Jason McIntyre]

It's Justin Penick from John Boy Media.

[Colin Cowherd]

The host of the Football Today podcast with Bobby Skinner and Chris Rose. We roll three times a week. On Mondays, on Wednesdays, on Fridays. Breaking down everything you need to know about the NFL. We're gearing up for the NFL playoffs. I hope you can join us. Join in with us three times a week. Listen to Football Today on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts and you will be glad you did.