Hour 1 - Defending the Knicks

Summary

Summary of "The Herd with Colin Cowherd" - Hour 1: Defending the Knicks

Release Date: June 2, 2025

In this engaging episode of The Herd with Colin Cowherd, hosted by Jason McIntyre in Colin's absence, the discussion centers primarily around the New York Knicks' recent playoff performance, strategic decisions, and future prospects. The episode also delves into intriguing conversations about NFL dynamics, particularly focusing on Deion Sanders and his son Shador, as well as an in-depth analysis of emerging NBA talents like Cooper Flag.

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New York Knicks: A Season of Highs and Lows

Jason McIntyre opens the conversation with a heartfelt reflection on his long-standing support for the Knicks, highlighting the tumultuous end to their playoff run. The Knicks concluded their season in Indiana after a second-half collapse and a contentious incident involving Jalen Brunson delivering a headbutt.

Jason McIntyre [04:42]: "The Knicks had their best season this century. And of course, there's hand wringing from Knicks fans. What do we do? Do we fire Thibodeau? Do we trade Karl Anthony Towns?"

McIntyre argues against making hasty decisions, advocating for a more measured approach akin to the Indiana Pacers, who maintained stability by not altering their core team despite reaching the conference finals.

Jason McIntyre [05:28]: "Sometimes the move is to do nothing obvious. You could take around the edges, the next bench, have a bunch of guys whose contracts are up and we can make some moves."

He emphasizes the importance of not overreacting to playoff setbacks and suggests that the Knicks have the potential to advance further without needing drastic changes.

Deion Sanders and Shador: Navigating NFL Challenges

The discussion shifts to the NFL, where Deion Sanders voices criticism regarding his son Shador Sanders' recent draft experience. Deion's candid remarks about Shador's preparedness and performance have stirred media attention and raised questions about the Cleveland Browns' strategies.

Deion Sanders [10:22]: "Anybody know my son? Understand? He's a professional. Like, he's gonna go into a meeting with headphones on."

McIntyre and co-host Frank Isola dissect Deion's comments, debating their impact on Shador's career and the broader implications for the Browns. McIntyre suggests that Deion's outspoken nature may have contributed to Shador's draft position, highlighting the delicate balance between parental support and professional critique.

NBA Draft Spotlight: Cooper Flag vs. Carmelo Anthony’s Critique

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to assessing the prospects of Cooper Flag, a standout at Duke, and the contrasting viewpoints from Carmelo Anthony and Jason McIntyre. While Anthony expresses reservations about Flag's versatility and readiness for the NBA, McIntyre defends Flag's multifaceted abilities and potential to become a foundational player.

Carmelo Anthony [23:31]: "Right now he doesn't have a go-to."

Jason McIntyre [24:45]: "Cooper Flag is going to go to Dallas and be the perfect fit. He will undoubtedly be the number one pick in the draft."

McIntyre draws parallels between Cooper Flag and established stars like Kevin Durant and Kevin Garnett, arguing that Flag's comprehensive skill set makes him a valuable asset for any top-tier team.

Eastern Conference Finals and Future Predictions

The conversation returns to the Knicks' playoff exit, with Deion Sanders providing critical analysis of their series against Indiana. He underscores the importance of defensive prowess and the limitations posed by relying heavily on offensive talent like Jalen Brunson and Karl Anthony Towns.

Deion Sanders [44:36]: "They had to chase the series. They never caught up to Indiana. And that was the killer game right there. That's the one they never recovered from."

When discussing potential trade strategies, Sanders suggests that acquiring a player like Kevin Durant could significantly bolster the Knicks' chances of securing a championship, despite Durant's age and injury history.

Deion Sanders [49:20]: "Kevin Durant would rejuvenate the Knicks. He would bring the right attitude and fit perfectly with the program."

Final Insights and Future Outlook

As the episode wraps up, McIntyre and Sanders explore the broader landscape of the NBA Eastern Conference, contemplating the ripple effects of Giannis Antetokounmpo's potential team movements and the subsequent shifts in team dynamics and championship contenders.

Deion Sanders [52:30]: "Hard to pick against OKC. There's such a good team defensively. Indiana would be great for that city and for that franchise."

Their predictions highlight the unpredictable nature of the upcoming season, emphasizing the importance of strategic team building and adaptability in a rapidly evolving league.

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Key Takeaways:

• Knicks' Strategy: Advocates for stability and measured adjustments rather than drastic changes following playoff setbacks.

• NFL Dynamics: Highlights the impact of Deion Sanders’ public critiques on his son Shador's professional prospects.

• Draft Analysis: Presents a robust defense of Cooper Flag's potential against Carmelo Anthony’s skepticism, positioning Flag as a versatile and promising NBA talent.

• Future Predictions: Explores potential trades and shifts within the Eastern Conference, particularly concerning the Knicks and the influence of star players like Giannis Antetokounmpo.

This episode of The Herd with Colin Cowherd offers a comprehensive and insightful analysis of current sports narratives, blending strategic discussions with personal perspectives from seasoned athletes and analysts.

Transcript

[Jason McIntyre]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Colin Cowherd]

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[Frank Isola]

Now let's get this party started.

[Jason McIntyre]

You're listening to Fox Sports Radio. What is up, everybody? It's me, Jason McIntyre in for Colin Cowherd on a beautiful Monday morning out.

[Frank Isola]

Here in Los Angeles.

[Jason McIntyre]

Colin, vacationing. Yes. This week, nobody takes more vacations than the big guy. Hi, I'm joined today by Alex. Hurry, Alex. Oh, we have a great show. The staff we got find some great stuff.

[Carmelo Anthony]

We're gonna have a great week, Colin. You can keep going on vacations. We're holding down the floor. We're gonna have a great time this week.

[Jason McIntyre]

We're doing our best. How was your weekend? Was it phenomenal or excellent or just like mediocre?

[Carmelo Anthony]

You know, I try to make every day the best day ever. It's kind of my mindset in life. So, yeah, we did good. We did good with what we had.

[Deion Sanders]

June is here.

[Jason McIntyre]

I love the month of June. Kids are finishing up school. You got the weather warming up. I know you're gonna be going to the be right before.

[Carmelo Anthony]

Well, yeah, we live at the beach, so it's like, that's, you know. Yeah, we're, we're very. We're spoiled. I don't. I don't like bragging about it too much live on national TV because we live in. I mean, I'm biased. I'm born and raised here, like one of the most beautiful places in the country. But, yeah, no, we're lucky.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah, we are. And you guys are lucky because we got a phenomenal show today. Great guests. I do have to start with some bad news, and it involves my New York Knicks. I'm ride or die for this team. I first game I ever went to as an NBA fan was the Knicks way back when I was a kid. And their season came to a difficult end Saturday night in Indy. Knicks kind of fell apart in the second half. Got a little frustrated. Jalen Brunson delivering a headbutt. It did not end well, but it was a great season. Let's not lose sight of the fact that the Knicks had their best season this century. And of course, there's hand wringing from Knicks fans. What do we do? Do we fire Thibodeau? Do we trade Karl Anthony Towns? Hey, J. Mac, I got an idea. We could move off Mikhail Bridges and get two role players. What do you think? What are the moves? And you know, listen, guys, I am reactionary. Sometimes I try to be level headed. Saturday night when the game ended, I need to take a few deep breaths. And then Sunday I get my thoughts cleared. And you know, Colin likes to call himself America's honesty broker. Well, I'm here to tell you as the commander in truth, that the New York Knicks need to stand pat and not be reactionary, not overreact. Let's not pander to blow hard. New York radio hosts or back pages screaming about change. Sometimes the move is to do nothing obvious. You could take around the edges, the next bench, have a bunch of guys whose contracts are up and we can make some moves. I'll talk about them shortly. But overall, big picture, we don't need to make any big moves. And I will point to the Indiana Pacers. Okay. Last year, the Indiana Pacers went up against the Knicks, beat them in seven, go to the conference finals and they get swept by Boston. Of course, Indiana in the Midwest, they're a little more chill. Hey, what moves can we make? The Pacers did nothing. Not one move among their top seven kept the head coach Carlisle. They're in the NBA Finals. Sometimes the move is to not make any big moves. So Jalen Brunson was asked after Game 6, hey, Thibodeau had a rough series. Is it time to move on? Here's Jalen Brunson talking about his head coach.

[Jalen Brunson]

I feel like nobody takes more criticism than Tom and this team obviously has.

[Jason McIntyre]

Turned around during his tenure.

[Jalen Brunson]

Do you kind of feel that going.

[Jason McIntyre]

Forward he's the same guy to lift you guys the rest of the way and next level?

[Carmelo Anthony]

Is that a real question right now?

[Jason McIntyre]

I mean, you just asked me if I believe that. If he's the right guy.

[Deion Sanders]

Yes.

[Jason McIntyre]

Thanks, guys. Come on. Brunson handled it well. You could say he handled that question better than he handled the Indiana pressure in the series. Brunson was, was good, obviously. I think he's leading the NBA and playoff scoring. He's had a great postseason. I. I do think we need a little less Brunson next year. Maybe lean on our bench more. I saw a stat that the Knick starters this season averaged like 97 points per game, which was the highest in the NBA in like 48 years. News flash, Tibo, you Got to make some more changes. And I've been yelling from the rooftops, tibbs, you got to put up or shut up. He beat Boston, guys. They took down the defending champs. Like, let's not gloss over that fact. I know Tatum got hurt, but the Knicks were in control of that series anyway at that point. So I'm actually here as the commander in truth to tell you. Knicks, we're not going after Giannis. Knicks, we don't need Kevin Durant. I think the pieces are in place for the Knicks to get back to the conference finals and extend to the NBA Finals next year. Let me remind you, Giannis is going to be shipped from Milwaukee and there's a good chance he goes west. Although there is a team in the east we're going to talk about that's making a move on him currently. But, like the Cleveland Cavaliers, do they scare you? Do the Pacers really terrify you? They had a great series, but the Celtics, the best team in the east by far, they're going to be without Jason Tatum next year due to the Achilles. The east is wide open. And oh, by the way, Knicks fans, I know we're upset. Quick reminder, we were favored in the series against the Pacers. And oh, by the way, game one, if the Knicks don't blow a 14 point lead in the final three minutes, what, what happens in that series? Do things go in a different direction? Like, the Knicks are close, they're right there. And sometimes, New York fans, the best move is to do nothing. So Commander in truth says Knicks, Stan, Pat, No Giannis, no kd. We're good. All right, let's move to the NFL. And a much dicier topic that is not very rosy, and that's the Cleveland Browns. And I'm sure there's a segment of the NFL population already sick of the Shador Sanders talk. I know for a fact Kevin Stefanski is because he's going to be facing questions about it all week at OTAs. Folks, Deion Sanders is an unbelievable football talent. And he looks like he's a pretty damn good head coach, too. As a kid growing up, I remember Deion Sanders. He was unbelievable, okay? With the Falcons, with the Niners, like, just a great career. The one thing I liked, which is not serving him well now, is that he loved to run his mouth. I love trash talking. Yes, I play in men's basketball leagues. Sometimes I run my mouth too much. I, I, I've dialed it back in my advanced age. Dion, you need to do the same. My guy. So Deion Sanders was On a podcast this week, the say what Needs to Be Said podcast. Meanwhile, we haven't heard from Dion about his son, about the Browns since the draft. Take a deep breath, folks, because Dion's talking again. Here's what he had to say.

[Frank Isola]

When you sit up there and say something like, he went in a meeting unprepared. Like, dude, Shador Sanders, who's had six different coordinators, stop lying. Like, you gotta understand, my kids are built for everything. They want to create these narratives and create these stories and then attach them to a kid that ain't never done nothing wrong. You gonna tell me he had on headphones?

[Jason McIntyre]

Shadors?

[Frank Isola]

Anybody know my son? Understand? He's a professional. Like, he's gonna go into a meeting with headphones on. Like, y' all, come on. It did hurt.

[Jason McIntyre]

Not good. Not good at all. This, my friends, is why Shador Sanders fell in the draft. I thought it was probably 50% Dion. 50% Shador. I'm now thinking NFL teams front offices were just like, no, thank you on Shador Sanders precisely because of this. Folks, it's the beginning of June and Deon is already complaining about his son and what went down at the draft. And you know, there are teams that passed on Dion this morning. That's why we didn't want him. Joe Shane and Brian Dabel. Look at their owner. I told you, we don't need this crap. And again, I'm not going to challenge what Deion said. It doesn't really matter. Did he wear headphones to a meeting with a team? I don't know. That seems like something weird to make up for a team. But Deon's pushback is. Oh, would he wear headphones to a meeting? Well, he either did or didn't. And oh, by the way, this whole. He had six offensive coordinators. That's not denying what went down at the meeting, him being unprepared. And again, Shador has an uphill climb in Cleveland, and I think a lot of it has to do with exactly what Dion's saying on this podcast. So Kevin Stefanski is going to show up at OTAs this week, and he's not going to get asked about, hey, how's Myles Garrett looking in the defense? What's up with Nick Chubb? Have you made a decision? How about the wide receiver room? You know, a lot of change there. Eddie, quarterback update. It's not going to be any of that. It's going to be. So Deion Sanders said this, and now you're getting questions about your fourth string quarterback in June. And folks, it ain't going to end here. This is going to continue. Anytime Deion steps in front of a microphone. Nobody cares about the Colorado Buffaloes right now. Travis Hunter's in the NFL. Shador is gone. You know what they're going to ask Dion. Hey, you know, Kenny Pickett threw three picks at a preseason game. Dion, your thoughts? And Deion, who has a history of talking, that's. I mean, that's what made him famous. That's why it's primetime. You think he's gonna be able to stand down and pull back? Folks, it's sort of an analogy this morning, and I'm like, wait a sec. So Arch Manning at Texas was beat out in back to back years by Quinn Ewers. And you could argue, hey, he was a young guy. Okay, fine. But, you know, in Texas fans, there were a lot of them ready for Arch Manning and Arch Manning's parents, and Peyton and Eli. All the Mannings, they've done a ton of interviews. They're on red carpets all the time. They could have easily said he should have been the guy over Quinn. Well, you know, Quinn, you were struggling against Georgia. Why. Why didn't Arch get to start easily? Anybody in the Manning clan could have popped up and said something. Nothing. They stayed out of it. They powered down and they let their kid figure it out. Hey, Dion, Shador is now 23 years old. I'm not telling a grown man what to do. But it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world, Dion, if you. Next time you were asked about it, hey, man, I wish my son the best. I will be rooting for him hard. I'm a Cleveland Browns fan. Go Browns. On to the next question. Just stop. All you're doing is hurting Chador. And, oh, by the way, do you remember Shador Sanders talked about this exact thing recently. Here's a video.

[Frank Isola]

99% of hatred is, you know, towards Pops. And then I'm just, you know, I'm just his son. So it really just come from. From that. And I told him that, too. This. The older generation that do it to me rather than the young, the younger people. Because when I come in person, I don't. There's no negativity. I see. But it's all over online.

[Jason McIntyre]

You know, I got two kids and we're trying this new thing. This. This woman, Mel Robbins, is pretty smart lady with some really good insights. And her phrase is, let them with your kids. Just let them. They're gonna have to figure it out on their own. And it's very difficult. You know, I got two 12 and a 14 year old and I'm trying to get him to bed. Like, hey, we gotta set good habits and get to bed early and wake up and do this. And my wife's like, hey, let them. They're going to have to figure it out on their own. Hey, stay it up till 10:30. Not a great idea when you got, you know, a bunch of tests the next day and a lot of homework and I shouldn't be on my iPad. I should be doing this. And you got to let them. I think Deion Sanders needs to just stand down and let Shador figure it out. It's going to be difficult. But he's 23. He's out of the house. I know this is the first time in forever that you haven't coached him, right? I, I think believe it's. He's been coaching him since, like youth leagues and high school. He was a coordinator. Deion, you got to stand back. I mean, this is a prime example of why prime is a problem. I'm wishing him luck. And you know who I'm also wishing luck to is Kevin Stefanski, who has a mighty big hill to climb this week. All right, coming up next year on the Herd, a former NBA star. He did play for my Knicks. Is he taking a shot at Cooper Flack? I couldn't tell based on the quote whether or not he's taking a shot. I think it's a bit out of bounds, but we'll talk about that next year on the Herd.

[Colin Cowherd]

Be sure to catch live editions of.

[Alex Curry]

The Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific.

[Colin Cowherd]

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[Jason McIntyre]

Back here on the Herd, we got Frank Isola coming up to talk about my Knicks take and maybe he wants Tibet og I don't know. We'll see. Before we get to that, folks, I got. I just, I like Cooper Flag a lot, okay? I've been on this show championing Cooper Flag for a while. I think several months ago when I hosted, I said Cooper Flag would have over under one and a half MVPs. And Rick Bucher was sitting in the chair and he looked at me like I had four heads. He's like, what? I'm irrationally high on Cooper Flag now. I was high on Wembanyama. He's looked great. No playoff appearances yet. It's early. Let's take a deep breath. But the Cooper Flag one's interesting because there's a different element to Wembanyama. Giannis Joker, Luca sga. Cooper Flag's American. And as we've just seen, companies in America are betting on Cooper Flag. I saw a report that he made $28 million in nil money. Now, it's a little not fugazi, but he, he got a deal with New balance for like 15 million and another deal with Fanatics for like 15 or about those numbers. But he signed them when he was at Duke, right? So he didn't get 28 million. He started to make that kind of money in contracts while at Duke. Companies are betting on him now. Obviously that's not the Nike bet on LeBron when he went from high school to the pros. But people believe in Cooper Flag. He will undoubtedly be the number one pick in the draft. He's going to go to the Mavericks and we'll see how that pans out. That being said, I believe Cooper Flag has superstar written all over him. Someone who doesn't quite believe that is Carmelo Anthony. Now, I don't want to get this wrong because Melo says a lot of nice things about Cooper Flag. Kill him with the kindness, then hit him with the. Here we go. Carmelo Anthony on Cooper Flag's prospects in the NBA.

[Frank Isola]

Cooper's nice. Cooper's a real deal, Jim. Like we haven't seen in a while. Somebody dominate, like dominate every stop he went to. I'm very high on his game. I'm very high on. To me, he doesn't do anything great. Like he just do a lot of very good. I'm a fan of him. I do. I. Now we gotta talk to him like as a pro now. Yeah, right. So yeah, that's college and everything else. But now you stepping into where this is every single night. This is 82 games every single night. You got to get a skill set. You can't be in the pros and don't have a skill set. You have to have something that you go to. Right now he don't have a go to.

[Jason McIntyre]

Oh, spoken like a true one dimensional player. Listen, I loved Carmelo Anthony, guys. I'm gonna do what he just did to Cooper Flag. So growing up as a young guy in the Northeast, I would watch a lot of Big east basketball and I became enamored with Syracuse. They had point guards. I fashioned myself as a point guard. Carmelo Anthony goes to Syracuse, takes them to the national championship. It was great. Carmelo goes to the NBA and he did one thing, great score. He didn't do anything else even very good. He was not a very good passer. He was not a very good rebounder. He was a average to mid to below average defender. Like whatever Luca is as a defender, that's like what Carmelo Anthony was. I made the mistake once on another show at this network of telling the truth commander in truth about Carmelo Anthony. And I didn't realize it, but another guy on the set was Kenyon Martin. Kenya Martin was teammates with Carmelo and they were boys. And I kind of unloaded on Carmelo and saying this, he can't do this, blah, blah, blah. And Kenya Martin had like steam coming out of his ears. And I was like, oh, I didn't really need to offend your guy. But again, I like Carmelo Anthony. I wanted the Knicks to trade for him. He did one thing great and where'd that get him? The hall of Fame? Yeah, he got to the hall of Fame. And I mean like, what do you do? Did he. Did he Win a chip? Did he guide his team anywhere? Did he make anyone else around him better? Cooper Flagg does all of those things. I don't like when you hit somebody with the jack of all trades, but master of none, that's like kind of a negative. And there was some discussion in the morning meeting. Was this really Carmelo being negative or not? And to me it's perceived as a negative because everyone else thinks Cooper Flagg is freaking incredible. He's a lock number one pick. Nobody even came close all season being it. You've got new balance and fanatics betting big on this guy being a star. Do I need to remind you of the USA Basketball last summer when he was. Let me check my notes. 17 and he went toe to toe with Anthony Davis and Drew Holiday and all of them. And I know they had just gotten off the beach, they weren't 100% locked in whatever he was. 17. Cooper flags. 18 now, guys. I mean, I could read you with his numbers. 40. Oh, sorry. 51 on two pointers, 38 on threes, 84 on free throws. I don't know, man. That's kind of better than good at everything. He is a plus defender. I do believe he's going to be a championship foundational piece in the league. I mean, we saw Kevin Durant be a really one dimensional guy. Unbelievable score. Good passer, good rebounder, but like he wasn't an amazing defender. He had length and he could defend. And when he was on the warriors trying to buy Draymond and company. Yeah, awesome. Cooper Flag is going to go to Dallas and be the perfect fit. I'll just go ahead and toss this out there right now. Drew Holiday will be on the Mavericks next season. That's my prediction. I think they'll move off Gafford or Lively one, one of the two likely Gaffords. But Cooper Flag gonna get a lot of playing time. Jason Kidd's not gonna bury him on the bench. Is he gonna have a LeBron type impact? Probably not. But can he put up wembanyama like numbers as a rookie? Yeah, I mean he's probably not gonna block five shots a game. But in Duke, at Duke, we saw Cooper Flag defend point guards wings bigs. We saw Cooper Flag bringing the ball up against pressure. He can do everything and he's really, really good at everything. Is he going to average 30 a game? Probably not, but do it. Does he need to. Can't you be have a great career at. You know, Kevin Garnett was like a what, 2412. That was that's the guy who I think is Cooper Flag is going to be in the NBA. He's gonna be Kevin Garnett, a outstanding defender, a killer offensive player, makes his teammates better and really can do everything. I want a jack of all trades. I don't want a one dimensional guy. So Cooper Flag, I'm a believer. Carmelo. Hey, welcome to the media. We'll see you all full on NBC and the NBA. Let's go to Alex Curry with the news. No, no, no, no.

[Frank Isola]

Turn on the news.

[Jason McIntyre]

This is the third line news.

[Carmelo Anthony]

So J. Mac, I'm with you with Cooper Flag. I had a chance to sit down with him and interview him after he won the Wooden Award. And what you don't see, because we see how great of a player he is on the court.

[Jason McIntyre]

Right.

[Carmelo Anthony]

But he is a great kid. He is focused. All he wants to do is play basketball. He's in love with the game. He told me that his family and his agent had to force him to take time off and rest after the college season because all he wanted to do was keep training and getting better. So I think whatever anyone thinks the transition is going to be like to the NBA, he's going to give it everything he has to be the best player that he can be. So he's going to be, he's going to be exciting to watch. But let's start in the NFL. J. Mac, there's been less buzz around number one overall pick Cam Ward, Tennessee's quarterback has been flying under the radar, but his head coach, Brian Callahan says he's been fitting in well.

[Jason McIntyre]

Cam understands those guys well. He understands how to interact with them. He's played enough quarterback to understand how important those guys are and what those relationships mean. And I think he's done a good job so far.

[Carmelo Anthony]

I mean, I'm not surprised he's not getting a lot of buzz. Like yes, he was the best quarterback in the draft but he wasn't the biggest story and he wasn't the biggest brand. He's also going to a team that has a lot of work to do. They were the number one overall pick for a reason. They had three wins last season. They're over under set at five and a half wins this season. So I mean it's not an exciting, sexy topic or brand talking about it. So I just. What are your expectations for.

[Jason McIntyre]

Well, I think it's great that there's no massive pressure. There's no media crush in Tennessee. Yeah, like he's gonna be able to work kind of quietly.

[Carmelo Anthony]

Yeah. No expectations and then blow everybody away with playing well, if you can. You never know. You never know what a rookie quarterback is gonna be.

[Jason McIntyre]

Does he have a saying? Like, what, be legendary? Does he have a Hall of Famer just talking about him all the time? I don't think so. Yeah.

[Carmelo Anthony]

I don't know.

[Jason McIntyre]

Sorry.

[Carmelo Anthony]

Oh, that's what you're going to. I was like, what are you alluding to here?

[Jason McIntyre]

Just. It just feels like he's set up more for success there without all the.

[Carmelo Anthony]

Noise, less pressured expectations. So, like, if he doesn't do great, he's not going to get torn apart for it. But if he does, well, it'll be like, oh, look. Yeah. No, that was the number one overall pick for a reason.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah. He's not even in a battle. Like, I know, I know. Callahan said, like, will leave Levis. No Levis. He's getting a bunch of rep. No, absolutely not.

[Carmelo Anthony]

Like, you had to pick this guy to save your franchise, and you have to start, like, the whole. The whole city's counting on it. So that'll be interesting. But let's. Let's switch to the NBA. Bronny James made a ton of noise when he got drafted and had a decent rookie year bouncing up and down from the G League. And NBA report says that the Lakers want Bronnie James to be a regular part of the rotation in 2025 as LeBron enters his 23rd year. So the Lakers have a lot of work to do this offseason. I don't think adding Bronny James as a regular to the rotation is going to fix a lot of the problems that they have, but good for him if that ends up happening. The Lakers need a big man. The Lakers need youth. The Lakers need shooting. The Lakers need size. They're probably going to have to part ways with Austin Reeves if they're going to trade for someone, they need Dalton connect to start playing like an NBA player again. I think that whole trade situation kind of messed with him mentally a little, which, like, that's not surprising for a young rookie player. So they just. Is this a good move for the Lakers?

[Jason McIntyre]

You know, I like to understand why this is coming out. I mean, it's June. Why are we talking about Ronnie in the rotation? Yeah, I wonder if the Lakers are already getting their ducks set up. Hey, Gabe Vincent. Thank you for your services. You ain't coming back, though.

[Carmelo Anthony]

What?

[Jason McIntyre]

Let me ask you this. You just watched the Pacers have a guy come off the PA bench. Yeah. Scrappy. Not a great shooter. Picked up full court, was like an energy guy. T.J. mcConnell. Yes. He's a veteran. Bronnie's only 20. Can Bronnie be along the lines of T.J. mcConnell for 12 minutes a night for the Lakers?

[Carmelo Anthony]

Is that it's hard because Bronnie's situations when he was playing with the Lakers were blowout games. They were either up a bunch or they were down a bunch. So he's not playing. He hasn't gotten that experience in close on the line games. And you can't really have that level of play until you've been in that experience.

[Jason McIntyre]

I mean, if you give him like, you know, five minutes bridging the first and second quarters and then five minutes.

[Carmelo Anthony]

In the third, I mean, anything's possible. He dad's LeBron James. He's training with the greatest player in our game right now. So there's definitely potential there.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah. Nobody's asking him to shoot 10 times a game.

[Carmelo Anthony]

No, there's. There's potential. And when you have LeBron as your dad and that's who you're working with and training with every single day, anything is possible. We also have to remember, like, he's still, like, not that far removed from having his cardiac problem. Like, so he's still building back up to his full potential. Like, good for him. Like, I hope he makes it into the regular rotation because I want young players to succeed. And he has had the world against him again, like a Shador situation. Having your dad being LeBron James, like, it's. You come into this in a loser lose situation no matter what. So, yeah, I mean, good for him. I hope he gets playing time, but I don't think that's going to solve the Lakers needs and issues for what they need next season.

[Jason McIntyre]

One of the things, their bench was just non existent at all that Dallas series. So I'm sorry, Minnesota series. So is there a world where watching The Thunder play 11 guys.

[Carmelo Anthony]

Yeah.

[Jason McIntyre]

And watching the Pacers play 1011 guys.

[Carmelo Anthony]

Yeah.

[Jason McIntyre]

Say, hey, we're going to have to play more dudes. We can't have logging 38 minutes a game. This is not sustainable.

[Carmelo Anthony]

It's not. But I think they're gonna, like, you learn, like, this was J.D. redick's first full season as a head coach. This was his first playoff experience as a head coach. Like, that's kind of what he got ripped for, was the playing time that he had his stars on the court.

[Jason McIntyre]

He's going to be the first guy off the bench, but maybe if he's your fourth guy off the bench and you know what we're playing guys to keep Luca and LeBron fresh for the playoffs.

[Carmelo Anthony]

Yeah. And he's, he's going to give it at all his all and you know he will. And like I said, he's training with the best. His dad. Okay. Said to the East. Giannis sweepstakes is starting to heat up. According to Toronto Star writer Doug Smith, Giannis reportedly has let it be known that he wants to stay in the east and Toronto would be an acceptable destination. Adding the wild card is the cost, but I also think the Raptors are uniquely placed to make an attractive offer that won't ruin their franchise or roster. But J. Mac, at this point it's all speculation. Right. He's definitely going to be the off season watch. But Giannis will go where the Bucks get the best package for him. Now, I don't think they're going to do him dirty. I think they're going to make sure that he's in a good spot, but they're also going to get as much in return that they can for Giannis. And he's obviously going to be the first domino effect that falls because wherever he ends up going, then you'll have KD land somewhere and then the other big name free agents and trades happen later on in the off season. Where do you think he should land?

[Jason McIntyre]

Okay, so I'm looking at the Raptors. Holy hell. This is a terrible roster and they're paying a lot of guys a lot of money.

[Carmelo Anthony]

Yeah.

[Jason McIntyre]

But for some reason, Alex, the NBA loves Scotty Barnes. He's one of these guys who could. Master of jack of all trades, master of none. Yeah, he just signed after his rookie deal, his next deal. But the NBA loves him. Would Milwaukee want him in a package as a centerpiece? Scotty Barnes, who's like a. No young guy. He's like a poor man's Cooper flag. Sorry, Scotty Barnes. Truth is, but like Brandon Ingram, RJ.

[Carmelo Anthony]

Barrett, I don't think he's going to end up in Toronto. I think they're going to. They'll ultimately get outbid. Someone else is going to got Kawhi.

[Jason McIntyre]

Leonard and they got that championship over the warriors in 2019. So I wouldn't put it past him to make a big swing. I mean the Raptors have been totally irrelevant since they lost that or should they won the championship.

[Carmelo Anthony]

It's just I, I see him going to a bigger market. I see Giannis going to a bigger.

[Jason McIntyre]

I'll give Toronto props. That's a great city.

[Carmelo Anthony]

Yeah.

[Jason McIntyre]

I'm sure you've Been there.

[Carmelo Anthony]

It's actually the one city in Canada that I was never on that road trip because I. I covered hockey. So I've been to almost all the big cities, but that's one of the ones. I didn't go to Anaheim.

[Jason McIntyre]

The Angels didn't go to play Toronto with no.

[Carmelo Anthony]

The Kings.

[Jason McIntyre]

Oh, King.

[Carmelo Anthony]

Yeah. When I was doing the Kings. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jason McIntyre]

It's a nice city. Very cultural. Yeah, it's fun. It does get cold, but I don't know if Giannis cares. Milwaukee is cold as well.

[Carmelo Anthony]

I just don't think he's gonna end up there. They'll be in the conversation, like, up until the very end and probably be a finalist. But ultimately, I think they get up.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah. Like, if you trade away Scotty Barnes, who are you going there to play with? Jacob Portal. Emmanuel Corporation. Quickly. No, no. Yeah. Interesting name for sure. And I think we'll see a lot of these pop up. Orlando's in the mix, you know. Yeah. But will he end up.

[Carmelo Anthony]

We're on Yanis Watch. Officially on Yanis Watch, Alex Curry with the news.

[Alex Curry]

Well, that's the news, and thanks for.

[Jason McIntyre]

Stopping by the Herd lie news. All right, Coming on next, Frank Isola drops by. He's going to talk Nicks and the future of Tibeto, the future of Cat. All that with the Knicks. Coming up next.

[Colin Cowherd]

Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at.

[Alex Curry]

Noon Eastern, 9am Pacific.

[Jalen Brunson]

Hey, it's Steve Covino and I'm Rich Davis, and together we're Covino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio. You can catch us weekdays from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific, on Fox Sports Radio. And, of course, the iHeartRadio app. Why should you listen to Covino and Rich?

[Colin Cowherd]

We.

[Jalen Brunson]

We talk about everything. Life, sports, relationships, what's going on in the world. We have a lot of fun talking about the stories behind the stories in the world of sports and pop culture. Stories that, well, other shows don't seem to have the time to discuss. And the fact that we've been friends for the last 20 years and still work together, I mean, that says something, right? So check us out. We like to get you involved, too. Take your phone calls, chop it up, as they say. I'd say the most interactive show on Fox Sports Radio, maybe the most interactive show on planet Earth. Be sure to check out Covino and Rich live on Fox Sports radio and the iHeartradio app from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific. And if you miss any of the live show, just search Covino And Rich, wherever you get your podcast, and of course on social media, that's Covino and Rich.

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[Jason McIntyre]

Welcome back. Great guest coming up right now. He's covered the Knicks for a long time, a fixed point in New York media. Frank Isola, currently with Sirius XM NBA Radio. Frank, thanks a lot for taking the time this morning. I know you're a busy man. Everybody wants to talk Knicks. I'm curious your macro thoughts, watching that series as they blow game one and then ultimately lose the series at six.

[Deion Sanders]

Well, I think you said it, blowing game one was the big difference there. Because if you look at what the Knicks did to Boston winning game one and two, Boston should have won game two. They lose that, they're chasing the series. Cleveland should have won game two at home against Indiana. They're chasing the series. The Knicks losing game one. And it wasn't just being up 14 with 258 to go or you're up nine points with 58 seconds ago and the Knicks scored four more points. So that had to be a 13 to four run by Indiana just to tie the game up. Look at that Halliburton shot. So a little bit of luck factors in. So a game that the Knicks should have won, to me, that set the tone for the entire series. The Knicks were chasing the series. They never caught up to Indiana. And that, that was the killer game right there. That's the one they never recovered from.

[Jason McIntyre]

So just to be clear, you know, this is the greatest season they've had this century, right? Long playoff run. But Knicks fans were expecting, hey, we're favored in the series, how are we not in the Finals. And now it's, let's do the autopsy. Do we fire Thibodeau? Do we trade Cat? What do we do with Bridges and his new deal? Lots on the table. It's going to be a busy summer in New York. Frank, let's start with this. If you're giving advice to Dolan and company, what do you say about Giannis? Do you try to make a move and get in the mix or stan Pat?

[Deion Sanders]

Oh, 100%. I'm trying to make that move. I think the Knicks window is right now over the next two to three years, and you haven't won a title since 73. If a player like that is available, you certainly go for it. I don't know if the Knicks can get it done. If I'm Milwaukee and I'm making that big step to trade a guy like Giannis Antetokounmpo, I'm thinking about rebuilding. I'm looking to get a lot of picks back, maybe a young player. I think. I still think that Houston is the ideal team for Milwaukee. I think it would be the ideal team for Giannis as well. But certainly the Knicks should go for it. Hope that maybe Giannis could finagle his way there. Jason, you know this Historia Queens got the huge Greek population. Giannis knows that as well. So there is a bit of a tie there, but I don't know. I think that'll be hard to pull off, but I'm certainly exploring that upon the Knicks.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah, I can't imagine the Bucks wanting to build around Carl. Anthony Towns, by the way, let. Let's talk for a few moments about Cat. Bit of a space cadet defensively. Commits some really goofy fouls, seems to get the ball. You remember how Julius Randle was a black hole. This is like a different version of it because he can actually shoot threes with some reliability. I don't really know what to make a cat. He has flashes of that's the NBA player I know. And then it's like, I don't. He makes some really poor decisions.

[Deion Sanders]

He certainly does. Is the reason why he was available for the Knicks to acquire him. And it's not breaking news that he struggles defensively. Everyone knew that before the Knicks acquired him. I do think the fallout from them losing this series, losing Game six. I think there's been far too much criticism on Carl. It was the only starter that was A plus. Like the plus minus. He was A plus. He was A plus all throughout the playoffs. So, yeah, defensively he struggles, but he also had a Game three with the next season on the line where he scored 20 points in the fourth quarter. He had a couple of really big moments against Detroit. He had some big moments against Boston in Games 1 and 2 where he kind of bailed them out. I think the big issue for the Knicks and I think Carl, you know, my, my morning radio partner Brian Scalarini talks about all the time and he played for Tom Thibodeau in Chicago. He feels like when guys are under Tom that second year, he thinks it'll help Bridges, he thinks it'll help Towns, much like it helped Og Anunoby, like it helped out Randall, like it helped Jalen Brunson. Jalen Brunson was an MVP candidate a few years into coming to the Knicks and playing for Tom Thibodeau. But the biggest issue, Jason, and you know this, can you win when your two best players are not great two way players? And that's going to be the biggest issue. Jalen Brunson, Karl Anthony Towns, both terrific offensively, struggle defensively and that's an issue.

[Jason McIntyre]

Do you think there's a world where the Knicks are a bench or two player away? You know, they go out and get like Nikhil Alexander Walker, maybe start him for Josh Hart. You go try to plot pry. Al Horford, like a veteran who can actually make shot, like Mitchell Robinson at times is unplayable because of the free throws, but like Al Horford can play defense and make threes. And you're not asking heavy minutes. Are they just a couple pieces away because remember, no Tatum next year in Boston.

[Deion Sanders]

Yeah, 100% right. And if, you know, going into the season, a lot of us felt, I know I did. That Boston was a clear favorite. They'll repeat as Eastern Conference champions, probably repeat as NBA champions. Now you look at the east, it's completely wide open. And I think you're right. I think there is something to be said. You know, Indiana got eliminated in four games in the Eastern Conference finals. They kept that core together. As the old saying goes, you know, you let the cake bake a little bit. You know, why not try to run it back if you're the Knicks? And maybe like you said, I think you're, you're right with your thinking. Trying to add a guy that can shoot coming off the bench. You know, their shooting isn't great and adding that kind of player will really open up the offense. But again, they're going to have to address issues on the defensive end and hope that they can figure something out because for me, that was the biggest issue. They had against Indiana going up and down the court. And the Knicks really couldn't play for long stretches. Jalen Brunson and Carl Anthony Towns. It's an issue when you can't play your two best players a lot because both struggle so much defensively.

[Jason McIntyre]

So let me ask you about this Jalen Brunson. Several months back, Becky Hammond made a statement. You can't win with Jalen Brunson as your number one player. I thought it was ludicrous. I said some stuff that was kind of harsh. Listen, Jalen Brunson's an unbelievable player, man. He. I think he's fourth in the league in playoff scoring this year. The Knicks are not anywhere near the Easter Conference finals without him. But like you said, the defensive questions. Now listen, that stuff dog Steph Curry early in his career too. And they had had to go out and get Igu Dolla and then Kevin Durant. Kind of a cheat code. But is that the one argument for moving off Towns? Hey, we need another defender. OG and Bridges are good, but you kind of need another defender to help out Brunson, right?

[Deion Sanders]

And that's the thing. If you look at Carl, he's an unbelievable offensive player, but defensively struggles. And I understand what Becky Hammond was trying to say, but you know, Isaiah Thomas was an undersized guard. He won a championship as. What is he, like 6 foot 2 now? That's an all time great player. But Brunson has been outstanding the last couple of years with the Knicks. And you know it from watching it. You see him on the court in the fourth quarter. He has all the confidence in the world that he's going to make the right play. I think if you go back to game one, I thought he gave up the ball a little early with what, 14 seconds left in regulation to call? That's. Jalen's got to hold onto the ball, get fouled and he needs to go to the free throw line and knock down those two free throws. But again, to your point, it's something that the Knicks have to figure out if they want to, you know, let's. You know, they finished four, six wins shy of winning a title, right? They had 10 wins, they still needed to win six. It's hard to win 16 playoff games. And right now it was proven that this team simply wasn't good enough. I still think there are moves that they could make. I still think Jalen Brunson could be that player. You look everywhere he's been, every level, high school, college in the NBA. He's won Big. He hasn't won the ultimate prize yet in the NBA, but he took the Knicks to a place that hadn't been in 25 years.

[Jason McIntyre]

So Kevin Durant has been a fascination of the Knicks for probably at least a decade. Let's just say I don't think it could happen. But let's say Carl Anthony Town straight up for Durant. Do you do that deal?

[Deion Sanders]

You know what? I would think long and hard about it, just because I know I can trust Durant in the playoffs, especially offensively, even defensively. He's going to give you something. And again, I'm looking at that window for the Knicks. I really do think it's about a two to three year window with a lot of these guys. And when you haven't won a championship, 73 hadn't been to the final since 99. That's why, I mean, I thought they gave up too much to get bridges, but I understood swinging for the fences because it's been that long since you've done anything. And I think with Kevin Durant out there, and I think Kevin Durant will be rejuvenated. When a guy like of that status hasn't appeared in a postseason game this season, he's going to be hungry to get back there. And I think Kevin Durant would come in with the right attitude. I think he would like the serious of the Knicks program. You know, Tom Thibodeau, Jalen Brunson. I think he fit in perfectly. Is it a gamble? 100% because of his age and the injury factors, but it's something that I certainly would consider.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah, the age is a question. You mentioned window. So Durant turns 37 in September and if you look at his last few seasons, he's been injured a lot. Do you think that he would shrink the Knicks window to maybe just one season?

[Deion Sanders]

That's. That's certainly a possibility. But you know this, Jason, you know this about Kevin Durant. He loves to play basketball. I take away the Twitter stuff that he does. He loves to play basketball, he loves to compete. So you know that he's going to do everything that he can to get himself ready to play the basketball part. I had heard at the Olympics a lot of these coaches that weren't around him that much, they were blown away by how much he puts into it every single day. So, you know, you're getting the guy with the right kind of mindset. And I think if he came, I think, I think he'd be able to handle the pressure. I know he gets sensitive to it. At times. But I would think after what happened in Phoenix this year with that team not making the playoffs, I think he would be rejuvenated coming to the next.

[Jason McIntyre]

Interesting. All right, onto the finals real quick. Actually, first of all, Eastern Conference Finals MVP voting, you know, we didn't do the subject yet, but we might. Siakam won 5, 4 over Halliburton. First of all, do you think this award is dumb because it's just the series, not all of the playoffs. And he. Shouldn't it have been Halliburton?

[Deion Sanders]

Well, I don't have a problem with them giving out awards. Everyone gets awards. You know, that's like our, our new thing now. But I agree with you. If I had a vote, and that takes nothing away from Pascal Siakam. But to me, everything is different. Like Halliburton shot in game one is not just one shot that wins one game. That was a massive shot that tied it up. They go on to win that game. So in the biggest moment, he delivered. Then in game four, after they had blown the 20 point lead in game three, and he didn't play well, he put up historic numbers. Numbers that he put up in that game with no turnovers was something that no player had ever done in any NBA game. So those two games right there and the fact that he played well in the second half of the. Again, no problem with Chiakim. I didn't have a vote because I wasn't there in Indiana. I know some of our brethren in the media, people that you know, and I've already given them a hard time about it. Everyone's entitled to their opinion. I would have voted for Toby salibra.

[Jason McIntyre]

All right, 15 seconds. Who you got in the finals, OKC or Indiana? And how many games?

[Deion Sanders]

You know what, it's hard to pick against okc. There's such a good team defensively. I look at Indiana, it'd be great for that city and for that franchise. Been in the NBA a long time, a former ABA team, to get the banner. But I don't know. Oklahoma City winning that game for Jason in Denver, they were down 2:1 in the series. They were down entering the fourth quarter. Them winning that game four, I think that's the game they're going to look back on and say that's the game that changed.

[Jason McIntyre]

Blue Dort special. All right, Frank. Guys, Sola Sirius xm. Great stuff, man. Thanks a lot. We'll follow you all offseason back here next hour.

[Colin Cowherd]

Summer is here and you can now get almost anything you need for your sunny days delivered with with Uber Eats. Now what do we mean by almost? Well, you can't get a well groomed lawn delivered, but you can get chicken parm delivered. A nice tan? Sorry, A box fan? Happily, yes. A day of sunshine? No? A box of fine wines? Yes. Uber Eats can definitely get you that. Get almost almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol in select markets. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. American Public University where service members like you can access high quality, affordable education built for your lifestyle. With online programs that fit around deployments, training and unpredictable schedules, APU makes it possible to earn your degree no matter where duty takes you. Their preferred military rate keeps tuition at just$250 per credit hour for undergraduate and master's tuition. And with 24. 7 mental health support plus career coaching and other services, APU is committed to your success during and after your service. Learn more at APU Apus Edumilitary. That's APU Apus Edu Military. Just like how true champs master both offense and defense, the BMW IX masters both ultimate performance and undefeated, unbeatable space. Love mine. The greatest legends in sports never compromise in any aspect of their game. So why would you settle for anything less from your suv? What I love about my BMW IX is that it redefines the electric vehicle experience, seamlessly integrates powerful performance. It's bold, daring design, a refined interior, details, cutting edge technology. Basically pushes the boundaries of innovation. Thousands of details went into creating the ultimate electric suv. Compromise. Not one of them. Hi, it's Colin. I've been around long enough to know quality when I see it. Or in this case, when I taste it. Tito's Handmade vodka. Good stuff. No flash, no gimmick. Smooth, clean tasting. Made the right way. Tito's made in Austin, Texas. Real attention to detail. I like to keep it simple. Tito's Soda one lime, a lot of ice. Refreshing, easy. Summer, winter, spring. Totally versatile. Always works. Listen, baseball season's here. The perfect time to kick back with some Tito's. It's what I pour. You should too. Distilled and bottled by 5th Generation Inc. Austin, Texas. 40% alcohol by volume. Savor responsibly.

[Jason McIntyre]

This is an I Heart podcast.