Hour 1 - Dodgers keep losing

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Herd with Colin Cowherd – Hour 1: Dodgers Keep Losing

Release Date: July 23, 2025

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Introduction to the Episode

In the inaugural hour of "The Herd with Colin Cowherd," hosted by Colin Cowherd alongside Jason McIntyre, the discussion centers around the surprising downturn of the Los Angeles Dodgers' performance, the dynamics of small-market teams in professional sports, and the intertwining of sports and politics in 2025.

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Dodgers’ Struggles and Broader Sports Market Trends

Colin Cowherd kicks off the conversation by highlighting the Dodgers' unexpected decline:

• "[06:00] Colin Cowherd: The Dodgers are in a total tailspin. They've lost 10 of their last 13 games, and nothing seems to be going right for them."

He attributes their struggles to several factors:

• Injuries and Performance Decline: The Dodgers’ bullpen has imploded, and their hitters are underperforming, leading to consecutive losses, including a recent defeat against the Minnesota Twins where Tawny struck out three times.

• Financial Disparities: Despite having significant financial resources, the Dodgers are underperforming, raising questions about the effectiveness of high payrolls in securing victories.

Jason McIntyre expands on the theme of financial disparities by discussing the success of small-market teams:

• "[05:30] Jason McIntyre: It's not just the Dodgers. This year, the Milwaukee Brewers, a small-market team, are tied for the best record in baseball. They've swept the Dodgers twice this season, showcasing that smaller markets can compete at the highest levels."

He draws parallels to other sports, emphasizing that small-market teams like the Oklahoma City Thunder and Indiana Pacers are well-run and poised for future dominance due to strategic management and strong organizational foundations.

Key Insights:

• Small Market Advantages: Small-market teams often exhibit resilience and strategic prowess, compensating for smaller budgets with effective management and talent development.

• Success Across Sports Leagues: This trend isn't isolated to baseball; similar patterns are observed in the NBA and NFL, where smaller-market teams are either maintaining competitiveness or emerging as formidable contenders.

Quote Highlight:

• "[06:45] Colin Cowherd: Small market Milwaukee, hottest team in baseball. They have swept the Dodgers twice and have yet to lose to them this year."

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Conspiracy Theories and Organizational Dynamics in Sports

The conversation takes a turn towards the influence of relationships and possible conspiracies within sports organizations, particularly focusing on the Cleveland Browns:

Jason McIntyre introduces a speculative theory:

• "[07:50] Jason McIntyre: There's a growing belief that the Cleveland Browns' owner, Jimmy Haslam, has a deep-seated relationship with the Manning family, which might be influencing team decisions, including draft picks and coaching hires."

He elaborates on connections between key figures:

• Jimmy Haslam and the Manning Family: Suggests that Haslam's close ties with the Mannings and Nick Saban may be steering organizational strategies, possibly at the expense of team performance.

• Impact on Team Performance: This alleged influence could be contributing to the Browns' struggles, potentially limiting their competitiveness in the NFL.

Colin Cowherd questions the validity of such theories but acknowledges the complexity of behind-the-scenes relationships:

• "[08:30] Colin Cowherd: If sports in this country are rigged, whoever's rigging it is doing a terrible job. The Dodgers, despite their money, are still losing, which contradicts the notion that bigger budgets guarantee success."

Jason McIntyre counters with historical examples of legitimate organizational failures:

• "[09:00] Jason McIntyre: Look at the tobacco industry’s denial of causing cancer. Sometimes what seems like conspiracy theories have foundational truths. Similarly, organizational issues within teams may not always be transparent."

Key Insights:

• Influence of Personal Relationships: Strong personal bonds between owners, managers, and other stakeholders can significantly impact team decisions and performance.

• Skepticism vs. Reality: While conspiracy theories are often dismissed, underlying truths about organizational dynamics can sometimes validate these suspicions.

Quote Highlight:

• "[08:10] Jason McIntyre: This is not a conspiracy theory. Haslam’s circle of trust includes the Manning family and Jimmy Sexton, which could explain some of the Browns' strategic moves."

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Performance Analysis: Dodgers vs. Brewers and Broader League Implications

The discussion returns to the Dodgers' performance with a detailed analysis of specific games and managerial decisions:

Jason McIntyre provides statistical insights:

• "[10:15] Jason McIntyre: The Dodgers are 0-6 against the Brewers this season, highlighting a significant matchup issue beyond financial muscle."

Unnamed Guest (likely a sports analyst or co-host) adds observations on pitching and defense:

• "[12:00] Unnamed Guest: At last night's game, the Dodgers' pitching was sloppy, and their defense couldn’t hold up, leading to their downfall."

They discuss potential coaching and management responses:

• Dave Roberts' Dilemma: With the team continuing to lose, Roberts faces mounting pressure to make significant changes to reverse the losing streak.

Key Insights:

• Managerial Accountability: Prolonged underperformance inevitably leads to scrutiny of coaching strategies and decisions.

• Statistical Disparities: Consistent losses against specific teams like the Brewers reveal deeper strategic or talent mismatches that aren't easily solvable by higher payrolls.

Quote Highlight:

• "[12:30] Unnamed Guest: After another loss, Dave Roberts said, 'It better be rock bottom,' indicating he anticipates significant changes might be necessary."

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Quarterback Dynamics in the NFL: Spotlight on the Cleveland Browns and New York Giants

The conversation shifts focus to quarterback performances and team strategies in the NFL:

Jason McIntyre critiques the Cleveland Browns' quarterback situation:

• "[15:00] Jason McIntyre: The Browns are struggling not just as a team but particularly at the quarterback position. With a lackluster performance from their current quarterback, their chances this season are slim."

Albert Breer, a guest expert, provides deeper insights:

• "[48:40] Albert Breer: Joe Flacco is certainly part of the quarterback competition, but it’s J.J. McCarthy who the team is cautiously optimistic about."

Discussion Points:

• Cleveland Browns: The team’s quarterback instability is a major factor in their poor performance. The competition between veteran Joe Flacco and emerging talents like Kenny Pickett and Dylan Gabriel reflects the turmoil within the team’s offensive strategy.

• New York Giants: Similar issues are discussed, particularly with Jackson Dart’s performance:

  • "[28:21] Jason McIntyre: Jackson Dart’s first throw in an 11-on-11 situation resulted in an interception, raising concerns about his readiness and the Giants' quarterback strategy."

Key Insights:

• Quarterback Performance: The effectiveness of a quarterback significantly influences a team’s success, and struggles in this position can derail a season.

• Team Strategies: Balancing veteran experience with emerging talent is a delicate task that can determine a team's adaptability and competitiveness.

Quote Highlight:

• "[31:34] Jason McIntyre: The Giants are likely to be in the top six for next year’s draft, and selecting a quarterback is imperative for their future success."

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Marketing and Advertisements

Throughout the episode, there are multiple advertisements and promotions, including:

• Annabe Sofas: Promoted multiple times as the only fully machine-washable sofas, emphasizing their practicality for families with kids and pets.

• Green River Whiskey: Highlighted as the official whiskey of the Herd podcast, likened to a playoff win in its ability to raise spirits.

• American History Hotline: A different type of podcast where listeners can ask historical questions.

• Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club: A podcast exploring stories that shape us both on and off the page.

Note: These advertisements were skipped in the summary as per instructions to exclude non-content sections.

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Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Colin Cowherd wraps up the hour by reiterating the Dodgers' ongoing struggles and the broader implications for sports economics and team management. The conversation underscores the unpredictability of sports, where financial might doesn’t always secure victories, and strategic management often plays a pivotal role in a team's success.

Final Quote:

• "[50:37] Jason McIntyre: Cautiously optimistic is what Albert said. Great seeing you, my man."

The episode leaves listeners pondering the delicate balance between financial investment, strategic planning, and on-field performance in shaping the fortunes of sports teams.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• "[06:00] Colin Cowherd: The Dodgers are in a total tailspin. They've lost 10 of their last 13 games, and nothing seems to be going right for them."

• "[08:10] Jason McIntyre: This is not a conspiracy theory. Haslam’s circle of trust includes the Manning family and Jimmy Sexton, which could explain some of the Browns' strategic moves."

• "[12:30] Unnamed Guest: After another loss, Dave Roberts said, 'It better be rock bottom,' indicating he anticipates significant changes might be necessary."

• "[15:00] Jason McIntyre: The Browns are struggling not just as a team but particularly at the quarterback position. With a lackluster performance from their current quarterback, their chances this season are slim."

• "[31:34] Jason McIntyre: The Giants are likely to be in the top six for next year’s draft, and selecting a quarterback is imperative for their future success."

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This summary encapsulates the key discussions from "The Herd with Colin Cowherd" episode titled "Dodgers Keep Losing," providing insights into team performances, organizational dynamics, and the broader landscape of professional sports.

Transcript

[Colin Cowherd]

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[Jason McIntyre]

With powerful interviews and insider analysis. Our shows have connected fans with the heart of women's Sports. In just one year, the network has launched 15 shows and built a community.

[Colin Cowherd]

United by passion podcasts that amplify the.

[Jason McIntyre]

Voices of women in sports.

[Colin Cowherd]

Thank you for supporting iHeart women's sports.

[Jason McIntyre]

And our founding sponsors E L F Beauty, Capital One and Novartis.

[Colin Cowherd]

Just open the free iHeart app and search iHeart Women's Sports to listen Now. I'm Bob Crawford, host of American History Hotline, a different type of podcast.

[Albert Breer]

You, the listener, ask the questions.

[Jason McIntyre]

Did George Washington really cut down a cherry tree?

[Colin Cowherd]

Were JFK and Marilyn Monroe having an affair?

[Albert Breer]

And I find the answers.

[Colin Cowherd]

I am so glad you asked me this question. This is such a ridiculous story. You can listen to American History Hotline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or.

[Jason McIntyre]

Wherever you get your podcasts. My Uncle Chris was a real character.

[Colin Cowherd]

A garbage truck driver from South Carolina.

[Jason McIntyre]

Who is now buried in Panama City alongside the founding families of Panama.

[Unnamed Guest]

He also happens to be responsible for.

[Colin Cowherd]

The craziest night of my life.

[Jason McIntyre]

Wild stories about adventure, romance, crime, history.

[Colin Cowherd]

And war intertwine as I share the.

[Jason McIntyre]

Tall tales and hard truths that have.

[Colin Cowherd]

Helped me understand Uncle Chris.

[Jason McIntyre]

Listen now to Uncle Chris on Will.

[Colin Cowherd]

Ferrell's Big Money Players Network on the.

[Jason McIntyre]

Iheartradio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. Thanks for listening to the Herd podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio and noon to 3 Eastern, 9am to noon Pacific. Find your local station for the [e-mail] or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or f. Now let's get this party started. You're listening to Fox Sports Radio. Here we go. It is a Wednesday. We are live. We're gonna be going to the Vikings training camp. Penn State head coach James Franklin and the quarterback Drew Aller for the Nittany Lions joining us today. We are in Chicago. J. Mac. You know, we're having an AI revolution in this country and I think it's going to create life al altering life saving medical advances. I tend to be an optimist that it'll save all of us time. There's, there's two ways to look at AI. You could be afraid of it. I am not. I think it's going to be amazing. Also, America remains the best place for global wealth to park its money. A lot of good things happening in sports. But sometimes I just don't want sports to become politics. So I'm going to start today's show with that. So let's start with that. The Dodgers. Oh, everybody's afraid of the Dodgers. They're in a total tailspin. Bullpen imploded again last night. Nobody can hit. They've lost 10 of 13. Nothing going right for the Dodgers. And I mean last night it's the Minnesota Twins that jump out to a lead. You know, Tawny knocks one out. They can't do anything right before the season started, the off season, it was unfair. I can't believe all the money they have. And I just hope sports never becomes politics. Politics in 2025 is fear mongering both sides. The world's going to end and conspiracy theories. A majority on one side in sports. You occasionally hear it and we heard it about the Dodgers as we went into the season. It's unfair. The little guy can't compete in baseball. This year the Milwaukee brewers are tied for the best record. Small market Milwaukee. They have swept the Dodgers twice. They have a great manager, Pat Murphy, excellent well run organization. Hottest team in baseball. Multiple great arms. They are going nowhere. Little market Milwaukee, hottest team in baseball. Have beaten the Dodgers this year six times and have yet to lose to them. By the way, the last NBA Finals we just watched Oklahoma City and Indiana, two of the smallest 10 markets in the NBA. The Oklahoma City Thunder have the best GM and Sam Presti, a star from Canada, three great stars. They have so many draft picks. They have more than multiple team draft picks combined. Over the next Decade, they're going nowhere. Could very well dominate the league. Or maybe it's Indiana, another small market team. Oh, by the way, the Cleveland Cavaliers, the Orlando Magic and the spurs have really bright futures. Much brighter in my opinion than the ancient Clippers from la. The NFL currently has one semi dynasty in small market Kansas City. The favorite to win the super bowl is the second smallest market, Buffalo. And keep your eye on the packers and the small market Ravens. The top four quarterbacks, you know it's all rigged, are in Cincinnati, Buffalo, Kansas City and Baltimore. Oh, by the way, last 10 years, both new York teams and Chicago stink. The college basketball champion, Gainesville, Florida. College football natty Columbus, Ohio. And isn't it weird how Caitlin Clark did not end up with a New York Liberty or the LA Sparks. She ended up in small market Indiana. Boy, if if sports in this country are rigged, whoever's rigging it, it's doing a terrible job. As for the Dodgers, it's a tailspin. It's injuries nobody can hit. The bullpens exploded. They're 06 against the brewers. And here's Dave Roberts after another loss last night, it better be rock bottom.

[Unnamed Guest]

As far as kind of how we've been pitching, how we've been playing defense, I think the offense is starting to.

[Jason McIntyre]

Kind of tick up, which is good. There's certainly more in. There.

[Unnamed Guest]

Will be more in there.

[Jason McIntyre]

But yeah, I think as far as quality of baseball, it's been a tough watch. It really has. Yes. Now, now that doesn't mean all conspiracy theories are wrong. Years ago, there were concerns about the tobacco industry causing cancer. It turned out they were right. Remember those executives that stood in front of a judge? We, we don't know what you're talking about. And people said, I don't know. I've got people in my family who are big smokers. Died early. Yes. It's just we actually did land on the moon. That, that one I put away. But here is a story that I started last week that it's not a conspiracy theory. It is what I would call a reality of relationships. So Tony Rizzo talking about the Browns owner, he's a Cleveland sports talk show host. Jimmy Haslam and the Manning family. And Arch Manning. Here you go. I know it's nothing that they want to talk about, but I'm telling you, the thirst that Jimmy Haslam has for Arch Manning is unmatched. That Haslem's donated a ton of money to Tennessee. They have a good a relationship with Manning family. I don't think it's a Coincidence they acquired a second first round pick. It is not. In fact, this is the worst kept secret in the South. Haslam, Jimmy, owner of the Browns, huge SEC Tennessee booster, leans heavily on the Manning family. Very close to the Manning family. Yes. That, that, that's not make believe. Arch Manning is part of the Manning family. And this is where Nick Saban comes in. Saban is incredibly close to not only Jimmy Haslam, but Saban's close to the Manning family as well. And so Saban, if he could land, I'm told a top quarterback like Harbaugh going to the Chargers for Herbert and he would take a phone call for the NFL. And there are two teams guaranteed to be awful this year in the NFL, Cleveland and the Saints. Nick Saban has coached in Cleveland with the Browns under the Belichick staff and he coached at lsu. This is not a conspiracy theory. Haslam, circle of trust, according to an article in the Athletic last year, is the Manning family and Jimmy Sexton and Bill Parcells. Sexton is Nick Saban's agent. So the Mannings are royalty in New Orleans. The children's hospital in New Orleans is called the Mannings Children's Hospital. And the Mannings are royalty to Jimmy Haslam. Jimmy Haslam also loves headlines. That's why he pushed the draft. Johnny Manziel and Baker Mayfield, they were the most talked about quarterbacks. It's why he signed a ridiculous guaranteed contract for Deshaun Watson. It would get discussed. So this is not a conspiracy theory. Okay. The circle of trust for Jimmy Haslam is the Manning family and Jimmy Sexton, Sabins, Manning, Haslam South. That's why I've said. And there's two teams in this league that are going to be bad. The Saints are going to be bad and the Browns are going to be bad. Now that doesn't mean Saban, if he doesn't take the job, it's all lost for Cleveland. Kevin Stefanski, Andrew Barry, the gm, more than capable. But. But this story is a poorly kept secret. The Mannings, Haslam, Jimmy Sexton, Nick Saban. That's why I ran with that thing last week. Lane Kiffin talked about it. Greg McElroy. Saban's not going to college. He would take a call in the NFL. All right. J. Mac. You know J. Mac, you are not a conspiracy theorist. We did land on the moon. But you do hear this a lot. You really do. You heard it a lot about the Dodgers before the season. There was all this fear mongering. Yankees haven't won a trophy since 2009, I think. And if you really look right now at some of the most poorly run franchises in the last 15 years in the NFL, I'm not saying necessarily today, though in many cases it is today. It's been Chicago teams, the White Sox, Bulls, haven't been good, the Bears, the Giants, the Jets. So the truth is I think you do get more game day revenue. In big cities like New York, Louisiana, Chicago and Philadelphia, you get great game day revenue, but really what runs sports is passion, integrity, attention to detail. And sometimes in smaller markets you can make. Mark Few, the basketball coach at Gonzaga always told me this. This is why Gonzaga wins more than ucla. He said at Gonzaga, I can sign three star recruits. Our fans trust the process. He goes, if you take a Duke, Carolina, Arizona, ucla. If you took two, three star prospects, they're crushing you. That is the pressure of usc. What are the stars? It's the pressure of the big cities. What are the stars? Who are our man Milwaukee's losing managers to the Cubs. They go out and get another manager. Yes, sometimes you get cherry picked if you're in a Milwaukee or a Pittsburgh or a Kansas City or a Buffalo. But the truth is most of the best run franchises in pro sports today, there are some exceptions are medium to small market, Oklahoma City, brilliantly run Indiana, incredibly well run. I mean the Cleveland Cavaliers disappointed us this year. Look at their roster over the last three or four years. They just haven't missed on many acquisitions. They hit on almost all of them.

[Unnamed Guest]

Yeah, I actually was at the Dodgers game last night. They were very sloppy all around the pitching. Ohtani did nothing until the bomb when they were down five runs in the ninth. Like I just was unimpressed by the Dodgers last night. But let me just ask about this Brown's take because that's kind of spicy if he loves Arch Manning so much. Is there a world where Stefanski and the owner and the gm, everybody got on the same page saying hey guys, we can take a gap year. Okay, I don't want to take a quarterback first overall. Let's just get the rest of the roster ready. Let's resign Miles Garrett, let's get some positivity and gun for archbanding next year. And I know nobody's saying you're throwing a season. Well, there is a high level discussion to be had about smarts and future.

[Jason McIntyre]

Well yeah, they don't have to. The division has much better rosters and much better quarterbacks. So Cleveland can try to win and I think in September through good coaching, they'll be fun to watch. But you can't convince a locker room that lacks talent. After you're one in five, people start bailing and then you start resting guys so you don't have to tank in the NFL. It'll all take care of itself. Now the Rams also have two first round picks and I've been told they would like they'd give both up for a quarterback but they're going to be too good. And the other pick comes from, I think Atlanta and Atlanta is probably going to be too good to be a top eight or nine draft pick. So Drew Allers on the show later, he'll be the first or second quarterback taken in my opinion. But. But Cleveland and the Saints don't have to try. Now the Saints are in a weaker division so they can win games because.

[Unnamed Guest]

They can come into some victory.

[Jason McIntyre]

But the Cleveland's losing twice to the Ravens, probably losing twice to Burrow. And the Steelers roster, especially on the defensive side is just much better than Cleveland. And Cleveland doesn't have a quarterback. So you don't have to tank in the NFL. Bad teams by mid October are going to become. I mean we know the New York Giants aren't very good. We know the Saints aren't good and Cleveland isn't good. You just look at their schedules. These are one in five teams to start. And at that point you lose the locker room. No matter how popular the coach is, you have controversy, dissension and it all slides downhill.

[Unnamed Guest]

Let me ask though, the interesting aspect of this is the coach we everybody knows Stefanski is a really good coach. He's one coach of the year. Colin, how attractive is this job to everyone? If Arch Manning is the number one pick and the Browns have the number one pick, do you keep Stefanski or do you, do you move off and you have your pick of the litter?

[Jason McIntyre]

Anybody? I would keep Stefanski unless I could get Saban. I would keep Stefanski. I don't want to listen. Stefanski to me is an A coach. Saban is an A coach. And, and literally you're triple your merch. I mean it would be a revolutionary hire. But I'm not. There is no third candidate. If I can't get Saban, I'm not getting rid of Stefanski. Stefanski's excellent.

[Unnamed Guest]

I would say Bill Belichick, but I'll put him to the side for now. Don't, don't turn your nose up at Bill Belichick, the greatest coach in the history of football. Ok, let's not do that.

[Jason McIntyre]

Well, I think. Yeah, I mean, you can throw that out there, but he had a pretty sour taste in his mouth for you.

[Unnamed Guest]

Just hypothetical Deion Sanders.

[Jason McIntyre]

There's no proof he could win at the NFL level.

[Unnamed Guest]

There's no proof Saban can win at the NFL.

[Jason McIntyre]

There's, there's a lot of proof he is really, really good football coach. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the iHeartRadio app. Hey, we're Covino and Rich, Fox Sports radio every day 5 to 7pm Eastern. But here's the thing. We never have enough time to get to everything we want to get to. And that's why we have a brand new podcast called Over Promised. You see, we're having so much fun in our two hour show. We never get to everything honestly, because this guy is over promising things we never have time for. Yeah, you blubberlips. Blaming me. Well, you know what it's called Over Promise. You should be good at it because you've been overpromising women for years. Well, it's a Covino and Rich after show and we want you to be a part of it. We're gonna be talking sports, of course, but we're also gonna talk life and relationships. And if Rich and I are arguing about something or we didn't have enough time, it will continue on our after show called Over Promised. Well, if you don't get enough Covino and Rich, make sure you check out Over Promise. And also uncensored by the way, so maybe we'll go at it even a little harder. It's gonna be the best after show podcast of all time. There you go. Over Promising. And remember, you could see it on YouTube, but definitely. Join Us Listen to Over Promised with Covino and rich on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Colin Cowherd]

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[Jason McIntyre]

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[Colin Cowherd]

For my heart Podcasts and Rococo Punch this is the Turning River Road. I knew I wanted to obey and submit, but I didn't fully grasp for the rest of my life what that meant. In the woods of Minnesota, a cult leader married himself to 10 girls and forced them into a secret life of abuse. Why did I think that way? Why did I allow myself to get so sucked in by this man and and thinking to the point that if I died for him, that would be the greatest honor? But in 2014, the youngest of the girls escaped and sparked an international manhunt. For all those years, you know, he was the predator and I was the prey. And then he became the prey. Listen to the Turning river road on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Just like great shoes, great books take you places through unforgettable love stories and into conversations with characters you'll never forget. I think any good romance, it gives me this feeling of like butterflies. I'm Danielle Robaix and this is bookmarked by Reese's Book Club, the new podcast from hello Sunshine and I Heart Podcasts. Every week I sit down with your favorite book lovers, authors, celebrities, book talkers and more to explore the stories that shape us on the page and off. I've been reading every Reese's Book Club pick, deep diving booktok theories and obsessing over book to screen casts for years. And now I get to talk to the people making the magic. So if you've ever fallen in love with a fictional character or cried at the last chapter or passed a book to a friend saying, you have to read this, this podcast is for you. Listen to Bookmarked by Reese's Book club on the iHeartRadio app. Apple Podcasts are wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jason McIntyre]

Albert Breyer is going to be joining us from Minnesota Vikings training camp. Interesting division. We talked about that yesterday that we don't know what J.J. mcCarthy is for the Minnesota Vikings. So we love their coach and we like their roster and their offensive weapon. We don't know what J.J. mcCarthy is. We really don't. Um, Green Bay has a middle of the league roster. Jordan Love didn't play well at the end of the year. We're not really sure what he is. I like him, but he regressed. Could have been injuries and then Detroit is kind of viewed by odds makers and the wise guys as the one team because they, they lost two great coordinators and have issues on the interior line. We don't, we don't think they're a 14 or 13 win team. We all think they're about a 10 to 11 win team. And that is now up to the Chicago Bears to seize these opportunities. And the Bears have a new coach. They upgraded their offensive line. There's still questions upstairs, but we think the on field product should be better. And Caleb Williams yesterday talked about his goals for the season. Listen, obviously I have self goals and that's, you know, being the first 4,000 yard passer in Bears history. That's a, you know, goal of mine. 70% completion. That helps the team, keeps on the field, puts us in better positions and then other than that, just trying to go down and you know, score the most points that we can with each drive that we have. So you know, that's, that's kind of my self goal and obviously other, you know, other than that you got to go win. That's success for me. That's success for the team and you know, that's all, that's all we wish for and all I wish for. So he talked about 4,000 yards completion percentage, win games. I don't have those as any of his goals. My goal for Caleb Williams is stop getting hit. He got sacked 68 times. That is the most in 20 years. Yeah, 20 years. David Carr is the last guy in Houston to get hit like that. He also took 108 hits. He was pressured 166 times, which is 35th out of 36 qualified quarterbacks. Get rid of the ball fast. That's really the goal for me. It was very interesting. I was watching something about a month ago, it was on a podcast called the Pivot and it was Bill Belichick talking about the greatness of Tom Brady. And you know, I think about how great Tom Brady was in big games. Underrated arm strength, his movement in the pocket, his ability to throw the ball in terrible windy, cold Foxborough weather, his clutch for quarter. No, no, no. Here's what Bill Belichick said. Here are the two reasons Tom Brady is the goat. You know, Tom did, did three things I thought were just unbelievably great as a quarterback. We all know worst situation you can be in is long yardage. And so as long as the ball moves forward, you stay out of long yardage. And Tom did such a great job of not allowing negative plays to happen to our offense. Number two, as I've told Tom many times, Tom, we can't gain any yards until you get rid of the ball. Then of course he made, you know, great decisions under pressure and had a tremendous ability to see the field and understand situational football and make quick decisions under pressure. The goat, 20 years together, he's like, no pre snap penalties. We were always moving forward and he got rid of the ball. It's not being an action star. Caleb Williams last year was trying to be an action star. He was trying to be Vin Diesel. Plus the rock. Cam Newton did that really well. Never had back to back winning seasons. Brady was known all the things he does well. Belichick's like, yeah, we never went backwards. And I always told Tom we're way better when you get rid of the ball fast. So the goat, the goat of coaching and the goat of quarterbacking, agreed. Get it out of Tom's hands. And last year Caleb held the ball in his hands too long. Being a quarterback is much more about being an accountant than an action star, right? And that to me it's not about yards. I don't care if he throws for 2,000 yards. It's not about touchdowns, it's not about, I don't even care about the wins. Don't get hit. Get rid of the ball as fast as you can. I've said this about Mahomes. Same with Michael Jordan. 95% of Michael Jordan's buckets were mid range jumpers. Easy lifts, 95% of Mahomes, greatness, drag patterns, eight yard out dig route, Mahomes and Jordan about three times a game are otherworldly and do things you've never seen in your life on both ends of the floor for Jordan, and that's with Caleb about three to four times, dude, do your thing. And the other 28 drop backs, no pre snap penalties, don't get sacked and get the ball out of your hands as quickly as you possibly can. That is quarterbacking. J. Mack with the news. No, no, no, turn on the news. This is the Herd line news. He also had 10 fumbles last year. Again, I don't even blame a quarterback if you're getting hit and don't see it coming. Hits her injuries, hits her negative plays, hits her fumbles, hits her pressures. It is amazing though. Belichick's just like, we didn't go backwards and Tom got rid of it really fast. And that's the essence of winning at that position.

[Unnamed Guest]

It's interesting. Who could have seen this coming? When all Caleb Williams did was play backyard football at usc. Who could have possibly seen this coming? Colin, let's get started with the New York Giants. Hey, listen, this is hilarious. Okay, so for starters, Brian Dable said, hey, Russell Wilson is going to be the week one starter. He's already stamping. Russ is our guy. He's going to be the starter. We don't know if Jameis is going to be the backup or Jackson Dart, but the media loves Jackson Dart. Colin, fast forward to Jackson Dart's first throw in 11 on 11, first throw. And I think we have video. Here it is. Drops back to pass over the. Oh, that's intercepted. And it's gonna go all the way. Jackson Dart's first pass at 11 out of 11s was a pick six. Kind of mortifying for the young guy. But better now, I guess than preseason week one, right?

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah, you know, it's. It's too bad because where I think the Saints and Cleveland are at least for one year, really, really bad football teams. I actually think the Giants have some really nice. I mean seriously, the six most important positions in football. Offensive coach, quarterback, left tackle, edge rusher, primary weapon. Giants are good there. What? They don't have a. They're in a tougher division and they're unsettled at quarterback. Russ is. Oh, he's settled. I mean, I mean, I think Russ, I think Russ, he's in the 2A class. Ish. Not quite to anymore because he's older. But the truth is, I think the Giants have talent. I just think it's the roughest schedule I've ever seen. And after they go one in five to start. There's going to be. You know it and I know it. These New York fans of the media are going to be begging for Jackson Dart and it's just going to, it's. I mean, because listen, let, let's. That is the toughest first four games in the league at Jaden Daniels, at Dak Mahomes and Herbert. That's brutal. And then after the Saints, it's Philly. These are all, I mean, Philly at Denver, at Philly San Francisco. This is a brutal schedule. And so Jackson Dart, my guess, by week five, everybody's going to be clamoring for him. And in my opinion, he's not close to ready. I think the Giants have talent.

[Unnamed Guest]

Let me just give you potentially optimistic. So the Giants played Washington tough last year. Jaden Daniels will not sneak up on them. And the Giants front seven kind of sort of nasty. They, they can get after the passers. Let's say Terry McLaurin is a no show in week one. There's a world where the Giants are competitive and maybe shock Washington and I don't think Dallas is that impressive. So maybe they start 2. 0. But even that glimmer of hope, Colin is going to be squashed in pretty short order.

[Jason McIntyre]

My guess right now is the Giants will lose at Washington, beat Dallas, lose to the Chiefs and Chargers, beat the Saints. They'll be two and three heading to Philadelphia. And then it's going to go sideways because they're not beating Philly, Denver, Philly or San Francisco. That's when it goes sideways. I think they'll be viable in September.

[Unnamed Guest]

And then do you start Operation Tank for Arch Manning in the second half of the season? Eli Manning, his uncle, very familiar with the Giants organization.

[Jason McIntyre]

Here. Here's the thing. Next year is such a good quarterback class and the Giants will have a top five or six pick. There's no disputing that. And I, I think they have talent. I think they're a quarterback away. I don't think the Saints and the Browns are a quarterback away.

[Unnamed Guest]

Quarterback away again.

[Jason McIntyre]

What again? Left tackle, weapon D line. There's stuff there with the Giants. Okay, so, but, but the difference is whether you want to play Jackson Dart or not. I think you're better served to play Jackson Dart's not ready this year. But if you play him and he stinks, it's much easier to move off him next year when you have a loaded first round of quarterbacks. Don't have Russ take all the hits. You have to show New Yorkers. Jackson's not ready to play. It didn't even matter if he was. Okay. Because my take is the. The downside to drafting Jackson. Dart.

[Colin Cowherd]

Will.

[Jason McIntyre]

Will they talk themselves into passing on a quarterback next year? Because I'm. I'm telling you right now, the Giants are going to be in the top six in the draft next year. You got to draft the quarterback.

[Unnamed Guest]

I need to know more about the GM and the coach. If they win four games, what's going to happen? Let's move on to another team in the NFC east, and that is the Dallas Cowboys. Micah Parsons is attending Cowboys camp. Despite the lack of contract, Parsons is not happy about that. And here he is sounding off.

[Jason McIntyre]

When you go around the league and you see these other teams taking care of their best guys, I see TJ got taken care of. You know, Max got taken care of, Miles got taken care of and he got two years left on his deal. So it's hard to. Yeah, you see a lot of people around league and taking care of. You just, you know, wish you had something to, you know, that same type of energy. You know, I don't take it personally.

[Unnamed Guest]

I just.

[Jason McIntyre]

I just don't understand. Does he have a year left on his contract? I was just. I'm just wondering.

[Unnamed Guest]

Yeah. For those not watching, Micah Parsons looks absolutely jacked cheap. Did you see how tight that shirt was?

[Jason McIntyre]

An NFL pass rusher. He's built different. He's not eating. He's not eating mutton and half and half. You know, he's actually working out.

[Unnamed Guest]

That's a jab at me. Yeah, I know.

[Jason McIntyre]

I heard noted cowherd Micah Parsons, he's. This is the final year of his contract. You don't have to pay players while they have a year left on their contract.

[Unnamed Guest]

It's good business to do that. That's why everybody else does it, Colin. They do it early, get it out of the way.

[Jason McIntyre]

Superstars.

[Unnamed Guest]

I mean, it's hard pressed not to say that he's been a superstar in his. Since he entered the league. No, I mean, he's been one of the elite pass rushers.

[Jason McIntyre]

Top.

[Unnamed Guest]

If you don't want to say top five and five, top seven in the league. Totally dominant, not in his prime yet.

[Jason McIntyre]

Okay.

[Unnamed Guest]

All right, all right, final story. Colin. Let's go to college football. This is fun. So Indiana was an amazing story last year. Hoosiers went to the playoff. Second year coach Kurt Signetti is ruffling some feathers this weekend. This season so far, he has canceled a home and home against the University of Virginia. And when asked about it by the media. I think you'll Love this answer.

[Jason McIntyre]

12 to 16 SEC teams play 3G5.

[Unnamed Guest]

Or an FCS game. 12 of those teams play 36 games.

[Jason McIntyre]

29 G5 games and 7 FCS games and one less conference game.

[Colin Cowherd]

All right, so, so we figured we'd.

[Unnamed Guest]

Just adopt SEC scheduling philosophy.

[Jason McIntyre]

You know, some people don't like it. I'm more focused in on those nine conference games. He's absolutely right. He's absolutely right. The Big Ten now is as good as the sec. And I don't want to hear about the bottom in the middle. In the history of college football, especially modern college football, we talk about your top four teams. Nobody cares about the seventh. Right? Nobody judges a conference going our sevens better than your seven. The top four right now, and they are big money programs, are Ohio State, Oregon, Penn State and Michigan. Okay, wait, if, if, if USC was good and they haven't been in a while, but your top four and they're all highly funded. Phil Knight money, Ohio State, Michigan. The top four of the SEC are Texas, Georgia, I guess Alabama, but they're struggling with nil. And Ole Miss, but they don't win a lot of big games. So I don't want to hear about Big Ten teams not playing. They play another conference game. And now that you've got Washington in the conference, Oregon in the conference scene, you have to travel. Now if you're a midwest team all the way west, those SEC teams never get on, never have a five hour flight. All these Penn State's gonna have to fly at some point to Oregon, to LA or vice versa. So it's a harder travel conference and I think it's a better conference at the top. So he's absolutely right and I love it.

[Unnamed Guest]

We got the Indiana schedule on the screen. So you know when you start dropping these non conference matchups, this is what you're left with in September or August. And September they're facing ODU at home. They'll be favored by three touchdowns. Kennesaw State, they'll be favored by, I don't know, 30 and then Indiana State all at home as a tuneups before Illinois. But you're right, they do have to go cross country to Oregon.

[Jason McIntyre]

Well, look at this. They face after those cupcakes. Illinois, Illinois is good. It's the best Illinois football team in 20 years. Illinois brings 16 starters back. Yeah, at Iowa, at Oregon, those are. First of all, Iowa's got a chance if they get breaks and stay healthy to win 10 games. So Illinois at Iowa, Oregon, that's a brutal three game stretch at Oregon. You're talking about a four hour flight. So once again, SEC teams never have to do that. Then they have to fly all the way to Maryland. Then it's to Penn State. This conference now is in four time zone or three time zones.

[Unnamed Guest]

No, I think you might be right in four, right?

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Guest]

Oh no, wait. Well whatever. But you're right basically that's a tough schedule. I applaud the jab at the SEC and the lack of non conference matchups. I like it.

[Jason McIntyre]

Jay McElh News well that's the news and thanks for stopping by the Herd lie news man. We got some stuff today. We got some stuff we're gonna go to Minnesota Vikings can Albert Brer A lot of stuff going on. Be sure to catch live editions of the Hurd weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am.

[Colin Cowherd]

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[Jason McIntyre]

Hey everybody, you've heard me talk about Green River Whiskey, the official whiskey of the Herd podcast. And if you know anything about me, I love a good metaphor. So the team at Green river challenged me to come up with a perfect metaphor to describe their incredible bourbon and rye whiskeys. And with the playoffs upon us, the answer is clear. Green River Whiskey is like a big playoff win by your favorite team, always sure to raise your spirits. So pair the thrills of this playoff season with Green River Whiskey. And with four core products in their starting lineup, there's something to suit any taste. To find Green river near you, head on over to greenriverwhisky.com here's the green River Whiskey. Raise your spirits a product of Green River Distilling Company, Owensboro, Kentucky. Alcohol by volume varies by product. Greenriverwhiskey.com, please drink responsibly.

[Colin Cowherd]

For my heart Podcasts and Rococo Punch this is the Turning River Road. I knew I wanted to obey and submit, but I didn't fully grasp for the rest of my life what that meant. In the woods of Minnesota, a cult leader married himself to 10 girls and forced them into a secret life of abuse. Why did I think that way? Why did I allow myself to get so sucked in by this man and thinking to the point that if I died for him, that would be the greatest honor? But in 2014, the youngest of the girls escaped and sparked an international manhunt. For all those years, you know, he was the predator and I was the prey. And then he became the prey. Listen to the Turning river road on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Just like great shoes, great books take you places through unforgettable love stories and into conversations with characters you'll never forget. I think any good romance, it gives me this feeling of like butterflies. I'm Danielle Robaix and this is bookmarked by Reese's Book Club, the new podcast from hello Sunshine and I Heart Podcasts. Every week I sit down with your favorite book lovers, authors, celebrities, book talkers and more to explore the stories that shape us on the page and off. I've been reading every Reese's Book Club pick, deep diving booktok theories and obsessing over book to screen casts for years. And now I get to talk to the people making the magic. So if you've ever fallen in love with a fictional character or cried at the last chapter or passed a book to a friend saying you have to read this, this podcast is for you. Listen to bookmarked by Reese's Book Club on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Unnamed Guest]

Saturday, it's baseball night in America and it's showtime as Shohei Ohtani leads the Dodgers against the Red Sox or the Guardians take on the Royals. Check local listings for the game in your area. Saturday at 7 Eastern on Fox.

[Jason McIntyre]

Well, he begins his journey through the camps. Albert Brear, now with the Vikings, is joining us live Monday morning. Quarterback well, let's just start with the Vikings. You know I said this, the division's interesting. The Lions lose both coordinators. You can use Philadelphia as an example. And that loaded roster they lost two great coordinators didn't hit home Runs on the hires and were reeling by Thanksgiving. So most people don't think Detroit's even. The odds makers are going to be quite as daunting. Green Bay. Well, we don't really know exactly what Jordan love is. He regressed some of it. Injuries. And they also drafted a wide receiver first round. Putting into question how much they like all these young receivers. Then you have the Bears, we don't know, but we're hopeful with Ben Johnson. Then there's the Vikings that we love almost everything, except we don't know what in the world we have with J.J. mcCarthy. I mean, we like the receivers, the O line, the coach, the GM, everything. JJ McCarthy. What are you hearing and seeing?

[Albert Breer]

So I would say, like, mentally and physically, last year was really difficult on him and he went through a lot and dealing with a knee injury. And they did things creatively over the course of the year, try to involve him. He started traveling with the team at the end of October. You remember their. Their game with the Rams there that the Rams won in pretty dramatic fashion in Los Angeles. So they tried to again make up for everything they were losing and some of make up for some of the struggles that he went through by engaging with him at the end of last year. And then the year ended and I think there was some question, you know, his weight had dropped and, you know, again, he had been through a lot and where is he? You know, and really from that point forward, JJ has been around, he's been engaged, and he's been such a huge part of everything that they do and, you know, look like. I think the reality is all you gotta do is look back at it, right? Like they were looking for an insurance policy on this and they were gonna bring back Sam Darnold for a year, but Darnold got more of a commitment from the Seahawks, and they were going to look at bringing back Daniel Jones at $15 million, which is a huge expenditure for a backup, and let Daniel Jones compete. But D.J. obviously saw the better opportunity to win a job there in Indianapolis. So I'm not telling you here that, you know, the whole off season, it's been like, gung ho, J.J. mcCarthy, let's go. You know, there was the Aaron Rodgers thing, too, but gradually they've seen those signs and they've seen who he is as an athlete, and they've seen him take a little bit more of a step as a leader. And so I think they're cautiously optimistic about where they are with jj. Like you said, this is a team that is good in so Many areas, the defense is coming back and Ads on the interior, Jonathan Allen and Javon Hargrave on offense. Really the only weakness that team was the interior of the offensive line. Christian Derrisol, of course, is coming back at left tackle, so that'll answer the tackle question. But the interior of that offensive line brings in, you know, three new starters. And so I think where they are on offense, defense, it's a program that should be firing on all cylinders. And you know, with what we've seen Kevin o' Connell do with Kirk Cousins and then Sam Darnold over the last three years, I think there's a lot of reason for hope that JJ McCarthy is going to be a really good player in his first year as a starter.

[Jason McIntyre]

You know, I'm going to throw this comp out. You may think it's crazy, but for most of my life, the Kansas City Chief Chiefs were very good, very well run. And then they got Andy Reid and Mahomes and they're a dynasty. I honestly think the NFC version of the Chiefs is Minnesota. My whole life they've been well owned, well run. They've got their Andy Reid. In my opinion, they just don't have the quarterback. But most of your life, in my life, you like their gm. They had good players, they won games. I mean, Kirk Cousins, one half is against Aaron Rodgers, but so I feel like they're just that franchise that just needs the piece. So you cross your fingers if you're a Vikings fan. Now, George Pickens is now the second Steeler to publicly criticize the offensive architecture of the Steelers. So Najee Harris came out and said when he went to the Chargers, Pittsburgh, Pittsburgh just didn't use me. Pickens comes out and says, what a breath of fresh air to be in Dallas. They are using my wide range of skills. It's easy for me to criticize Mike Tomlin, but he just signed an extension. So the division now is exceptionally well run. Baltimore. Joe Burrow. Cleveland's going to be bad. Is Tomlin under any heat in Pittsburgh at all? If this thing is ugly, I don't.

[Albert Breer]

Think he's going to get fired. You know, and I think everybody understands what the. What the score is there. This is one last run, maybe two last runs with the core that they've built around guys like TJ Watt and Cam Hayward. And let's see if we can get past the point where a 9 and 9 or 10 win team sneaking into the playoffs and then losing our first playoff game. And so if Aaron Rodgers works out, if Jalen Ramsey Works out if Darius Slay works out, if TJ Watt is still TJ Watt, I think the basis of a team that can compete at that level is there, but there are a lot of ifs involved. That said, if they get to the end of the year and that hasn't worked out, again, I don't think he's getting fired. But if you look at it, you say we're going to go through an organizational reset, then I think a few things probably organically happen, right? It's the conversation between Mike Tomlin and Omar Khan and the Rooneys over what direction the organization is going. I think organically you'd have interest from other teams coming in and saying, do we want to take a swing and offer a draft pick for Mike Tomlin? So, like, I think whether it happens in 2026 or 2027, there's a reset slash rebuild coming. And one of the operative questions on that when you're looking at it is having a coach who's been there for almost two decades, does he still want to be here, do we still want him here, and does he fit where we're going, or has this all sort of run its course? So, again, I don't think a firing is in the offing, but like, I certainly think whenever that inevitable reset comes with all these older players on the roster, whenever that inevitable rebuild comes, those big picture questions have to be asked and. And I think they will be asked whenever. Again, whether that happens this year or whether. Whether that happens at the end of this year or the end of next year.

[Jason McIntyre]

Okay, one of our favorite people, Albert Brewer. One question, two and a half minutes left. I don't know why care? I'm fascinated with the Cleveland Browns quarterback situation. I'm ashamed of myself, but I do care.

[Albert Breer]

Yeah.

[Jason McIntyre]

What do you hear?

[Albert Breer]

So I would say Joe Flacco more or less got a first round buy through this.

[Jason McIntyre]

Okay.

[Albert Breer]

He's going to be part of the quarterback competition. He didn't get a ton of reps in the spring. That was by design. So he is in it. Kenny Pickett showed some athleticism. They're going to have to run a little bit of a different offense if it's Pickett in there versus Flacco, so he's in it. As for the rookies, I mean, Dylan Gabriel came out of the box and looked like a guy who played six years in college. His feel, his instincts, all of that is good. He picked up the offense fast. The question with him is always going to be ceiling. It's like, how far can you go with him as your quarterback, but because of the athlete he is, you'd be looking at building an offense. If it were Gabriel, that would be a little bit more like Pickett. So if Pickett's the starter, Gabriel would make some sense as the backup. And then you have Chador, who was pretty far behind when he first got there. And so the question now becomes, has he caught up enough to be a part of a legitimate quarterback competition? And I think it's hard to. Not impossible, but hard when you get to July and August to run four guys out there with the first team and maybe a little unfair to the other 10 guys in the huddle. Eventually you have to build a team. This can't be just a big quarterback derby through training camp. So I, you know, if they don't have it narrowed down that first practice, I think Kevin Stefanski and Tommy Reese and those guys are going to have to narrow it down. As it stands, like, I think at the end of the spring, Shador Sanders was still fourth and whether or not he could catch up enough to be part of the competition, because I know you're. Everybody wants to know about Shador. I think that's a fair question to ask. Now, again, I think Gabriel is steady in what they thought they were getting with him. And then, you know, with the two veterans, it sort of comes down to who you want to be offensively and what they can bring to the table. But now, you know, they're going to get a real look at Flacco vs. Pickett and Camp for the first time because they didn't really get the side by side look. Going back to April and May and June.

[Jason McIntyre]

Monday morning, quarterback Albert Brear. Excellent stuff. I'm a little jealous. I'd love to watch JJ McCarthy. Cautiously optimistic is what Albert said. Great seeing you, my man.

[Albert Breer]

All right, thanks, Colin.

[Jason McIntyre]

Cautiously optimistic. No, it's just we talked about this yesterday. His, his fourth quarter quarterback rating was not good in college. Playing from behind, not good in college. Wasn't a great late game quarterback and high leverage situations. Jaden Daniels was so. It's. I didn't have a GM who liked JJ over Jaden Daniels and I like Bo Nix over JJ McCarthy. So I'm just fascinated to watch him play. I mean, I love the coach. I like the gm. I like the old line in receivers. Okay. Have you heard about this? Last year, Degree changed the formula for their cool rush deodorant and their fans rebelled and wanted the old scent back. And Degree listened. That doesn't happen often. They admitted they effed up and they're bringing back the original Cool Rush scent. They're bringing it back and it's exactly how you remember it. Cool, crisp and fresh. There's a reason it's the number one men's antiperspirant and it's back in Walmart, Target and other stores now for under four bucks. So try and see what the fuss is about. Head to your local Walmart or Target to try the OG degree cool rush for yourself.

[Colin Cowherd]

Join iHeartRadio and Sarah Spain in celebrating the one year anniversary of iHeart Women's.

[Jason McIntyre]

Sports with powerful interviews and insider analysis. Our shows have connected fans with the heart of women's Sports. In just one year, the network has launched 15 and built a community united.

[Colin Cowherd]

By passion podcasts that amplify the voices of women in sports. Thank you for supporting I Heart Women's.

[Jason McIntyre]

Sports and our founding sponsors ELF Beauty, Capital One and Novartis.

[Colin Cowherd]

Just open the free iHeart app and search iHeart Women's Sports to Listen Now. I'm Bob Crawford, host of American History Hotline, a different type of podcast.

[Albert Breer]

You, the listener, ask the questions.

[Jason McIntyre]

Did George Washington really cut down a cherry tree?

[Colin Cowherd]

Were JFK and Marilyn Monroe having an affair?

[Albert Breer]

And I find the answers.

[Colin Cowherd]

I am so glad you asked me this question. This is such a ridiculous story. You can listen to American History Hotline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or.

[Jason McIntyre]

Wherever you get your podcasts.

[Colin Cowherd]

I knew I wanted to obey and submit, but I didn't fully grasp for the rest of my life what that meant for my heart. Podcasts and Rococo Punch this is the Turning River Road in the woods of Minnesota, a cult leader married himself to 10 girls and forced them into a secret life of abuse. But in 2014, the youngest escaped. Listen to the Turning river road on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart podcast.